AMD EPYC 7002 Series Rome for the Workstation vs. 3rd Gen Threadripper
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- Опубликовано: 3 янв 2020
- We discuss the pros and cons of using the AMD EPYC 7002 series codenamed "Rome" for workstations and why we ultimately recommend Threadripper except in a few cases.
References in the video:
AMD EPYC 7002 Series "Rome" Overview: www.servethehome.com/amd-epyc...
AMD EPYC 7702P Review: www.servethehome.com/amd-epyc...
Intel Xeon W-3275 Review: www.servethehome.com/intel-xe...
(Sun) Ultra EPYC Workstation: www.servethehome.com/introduc...
EPYC 7742 Review: www.servethehome.com/amd-epyc...
Ryzen Threadripper 3970X Review: www.servethehome.com/amd-ryze... 
Наука
I have been using an AMD EPYC 7601 overclocked on water cooling at 3.5Ghz for the last three years. It's an amazing workstation CPU. Water blocks designed for Threadripper work just fine. I'm going to be upgrading to a Milan based CPU this summer, along with faster memory. I've found it makes a killer gaming CPU when OCed particularly for games like Cyberpunk 2077, where the insane memory bandwidth of an 8-channel setup makes the highly-dense and AI packed world operate much more smooth than my friend with the same GPU on a similarly clocked 32 core thread ripper. All EPYC CPUs are multiplier unlocked and thread ripper overclocking utilities work fine with them.
Epyc 7282 тоже можно разогнать?
@user-og9kx3xw2g that's what I'm wondering too if u know please leme know
The color is really shifting a lot in the video, it really is distracting otherwise a great and informative video.
Hi Eric - great point. New camera (DC-S1) had auto white balance on and it continued to shift while recording. Next time, AWB will be off. Still more work shaking out the setup.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Now that I know that's a Panasonic I feel like I should have recognized that auto-focus, DFD, it's completely unusable and distracting in video to me. I suggest you look into widening that your depth of field as much as possible on that full frame, crop if you have to (so you can run manual focus or lock the auto focus in if that camera supports that in video mode) because full frame 35mm is more sensor than you need for RUclips or really video in general as the standard is super 35. That camera will be amazing for the photos on the site but it's not made or loved for shooting video for a few reasons. It should still be plenty workable for these videos too, it's just not as easy as some others.
Too bad I can't buy EPYC / Threadripper workstations from Dell, HP or Lenovo... I'd happily buy those for my enterprise over lame Xeon powered boxes.
Old comment, but the Lenovo P620 is now out and fits the bill!
Very informative video, would love to see more in the future.
As for the video/audio quality, I find the audio volume is a bit on the low side.
Thanks! I agree fully. This video swapped to a new mic and external recorder. I spoke softer in this video than when I tested the mic which I think was the cause of this even after adjusting the gain while editing.
Thanks again guys for doing this kind of videos and explanations! :) Seriously you deserve more subs!
Great on point video! Really excited to see you and STH reach new heights in the coming years :)
More videos please! Really like this format!:)
I love the look of those Sun workstations! I was actually looking for one on eBay the other day. Awesome that you were able to find a NIB one.
I enjoy your content, informative. This is a topic I enjoy thinking of and the possibilities in a workstation on the edge of technology even if I can't justify it for my editing rig yet... yet
As a consultant, my biggest issue is that for big customers, there isn't a single workstation from the known vendors (Dell, HPE, Lenovo) based on either Threadripper or EPYC, and I think it's a shame that AMD keeps missing this market.
I believe that lacking RDIMM support is the #1 reason that we are not seeing big brands adopt Threadripper, especially in this generation. It is a tough market to break into when you are missing a key feature that those OEMs all market.
@@PatrickKennedy2 yes i understand now why I don't see them I missed that comepletely but how much does it make a difference is there an article comparing latest silicon or flash tech
Talking with Dell and Lenovo past few weeks, they are bringing out workstations based on Rome very very soon. Thankfully they are not as oiled up by Intel as many feared.
@@PatrickKennedy2 As much as I know, ECC support is optional on Threadripper and can be enabled by the board maker, so what's the issue?
@@Zapotah The Xeon part has everything needed for connecting devices - Audio, USB-3, USB-C, SATA, SAS etc, while ROME has a really minimal support for these devices from the CPU, so those vendors will need to add tons of chips to the board, which will probably raise the price for the final solution. They could have based their solution on TR4 and be done with it IMHO
Love the articles, just subscribed to the RUclips channel. This video was educational for me. Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words Matthew!
Another reason to go for Epyc over Threadripper is the fact that Epyc has about twice the memory bandwidth. (Since Epyc has 8 memory channels, and threadripper only has 4.)
So for applications that consumes a lot of memory bandwidth, then Epyc has that as an advantage.
Adding more cache does offset this fact a bit, but since both platforms have similar amounts of cache, then this isn't going to make any difference so to say.
(Not to mention that if one's workload operates on a dataset that is sufficiently bigger than one's cache, then cache isn't going to do much to begin with.)
Would be nice if some motherboard vendor or another made an Epyc motherboard catering to workstations.
Preferably spacing out the PCIe ports a bit (For dual slot GPUs), adding more U.2 ports, including a sound section on the board (that isn't really going to increase the cost of the board all that much), not to mention some VRM cooling that doesn't require "server grade" cooling blowing air over it. And some more IO on the back.
Would likely be a fairly small market though.... But some work station applications would benefit from it.
Another solution is to get a regular 3-4 U server, and simply keep it in a sound dampened and air conditioned "closet" and run the cables and such out through the wall to one's desk. But that isn't always a possibility.
Bro do you reckon there would be a way you could help me out with the configuration of my PC? Using a EPYC Rome 64-CORE
And trying to build from there. SOS SOS 😂
excited to see more video content, my two cents is to remove or lessen the bokeh effect so the camera doesnt have to refocus when your head moves about.
Interesting take, Thanks for the video. Here’s an example of one I plan to build this year, progressively. I do film editing. I work in high resolutions, 4K-8K video, from RED cameras mostly. One of the finishing processes is color grading. For large budget productions its always better to use the highest resolution media and scale down. An 8K movie that is rendered to a 16-bit DPX sequence can take somewhere around 20-30+TB of space. Sabrent’s new 4TB NVME is brilliant because now a 4xM.2 PCIe adapter can be 16TB in a RAID0 for a work drive. That DPX sequence can require 4.5GB/s+ data rate to stream, plus the color finishing effects need powerful GPU power for some of the noise reduction and specialty plugins for the program. The PCIe lanes of the Threadripper have worked so far, because I’ve compromised resolution and quality some in my workflow by using 4K 10-bit DPX format. That’s not something I want to do this year, so moving to Epyc is essential for me this year. I can put in two 16TB PCIe cards running in RAID0 to give me 32TB of workspace, have a 40gb NIC for connection to storage, and put 1-2 RTX graphics cards in while still having headroom for further expansion such as BMD Video output cards. I also dabble in 3D modeling as a hobby so having the ability to put 2 RTX cards in along with everything else will be extremely handy. I don’t need a lot of cores to work just the video, but I can have the ability to upgrade to 64 at some point also. And the RAM will be essential if the 3D scenes can’t render on the 24-48gb of VRAM. I hope Epyc is viable for workstation use. I know several editors who use every lane of PCIe that is available.
Build:
16-core EPYC ROME
128GB DDR4
9x Sabrent 4TB Rocket
2x RTX 2080Ti
BMD Decklink 8K
Mellanox Connectx-3 40Gb NIC
I think it really just comes down to how much memory you need in the system. If you need 256GB or less, then use threadripper. Simple as that. 32GB DIMMs x 8 = 256GB. While you can stuff more memory into a TR (probably up to 1TB or 2TB), the memory would have to run very slowly (due to being unbuffered) and 128GB and 256GB DIMMs are specialty products. At that point you'd want to go with EPYC. 32GB DIMMs are readily available in retail channels now, so stuffing 256GB into a TR3 is relatively easy. (And yah, I did notice that those DIMMs are more expensive than their registered counterpartsr, for reasons unknown).
On the other-hand, the consumer AM4 socket is even cheaper and AM4 mobos take 32GB DIMMs just fine (even though they aren't validated for it). I have 128GB stuffed into one of my 3900X boxes. A 3900X or 3950X system is going to be far cheaper than a TR just as a TR system is going to be cheaper than an EPYC. The 3900X itself is already faster than older dual-socket Xeon systems, a real beast, and the 3950X is even better. It can be goosed a bit more as well, so if your workload runs just fine and you aren't constrained on time, I expect a lot of people would be happy with 3950X on AM4.
Deciding whether the ram should be overclocked or not becomes more significant when you have 8+ DIMM sockets (TR or EPYC). The whole system power consumption can really start to get up there when you run the memory at 1.35V and boost the frequency. But it *is* fun if its the only box you have. I usually wind up splitting the difference and running my TR memory at 2666 so I can constrain the power budget to something reasonable. It only matters if you run the system at full load 24x7 (which I do, pretty much, doing bulk compiles). Hopefully we will start seeing higher-frequency DDR at 1.2V now that there is demand for it.
-Matt
Сейчас epyc дешевеет и вполне заменит 3950 по цене
Very nice video, however, as for your decision-process towards Threadripper, I have some fundamental objections:
Integrating all of the "bits&pieces" on the motherboards as found the Threadripper-boards is not always good:
1. USB generations are released more frequently, than the lifetime of your system. If you run a costly workstation-type build, you tend to keep it for some years before you replace it. Chances are high, that you'll see some generations of USB passing along. As a dedicated card, you'll simply replace the card with a newer type and are ready to go.
2. Audio hardware is best kept outside the case, for signal-noise reasons. I very much prefer to have an external DAC attached via USB, which is properly shielded with a decent PSU, than the typical unshielded add-in card.
3. Slots .vs. onboard - I prefer slots. Like for M.2. I'd rather have a multi M.2 PCIe add-in card (like HP Z Drive Quad Pro) than M.2 on my mainboard realestate.
Add all of the above, and you might understand, why I dislike current Threadripper motherboards. Except the top-end Gigabyte model with its Intel X550 dual-10g NIC, all have rather pathetic NIC chips. They have all sorts of USB ports at all sorts of speeds. They have multiple M.2 ports on the mainboard. But they have "only" 4 slots. In contrast, Asrock, Gigabyte and Supermicro EPYC SP-3 single socket mainboards lack the onboard-cruft and are therefore cheaper, but have loads of slots for you to add decent USB with external sound attached to it and proper NICs (ok, most of these boards come with a X550 intel dual-10g nic as well). And the right amount of PCIe M.2 ports - or decide to go U.2 directly.
Thanks Patrick, I enjoyed this video. I too am looking at 16-24 core Epyc workstation options, the selection of PCIe 4.0 Workstation MBs is poor (to be polite about it).
I'm holding out to find what Milan will offer, hopefully there will be a better selection of workstation MBs by then.
What I noticed is this video didn't compare RAS (reliability, availability, and serviceability) of Epyc vs. ThreadRipper.
Presumably ThreadRipper is missing _something_ despite being cut from the same cloth.
I don't know if you allow links but a good chart for Epyc is "TABLE 1: AMD EPYC RAS FEATURES" contained in the Moor Insights whitepaper, unfortunately it's a couple of years old.
An article listing the non-obvious differences between ThreadRipper and Epyc would be a great read. I've been trying to find a *full* comparison but there really seems to be nothing to be found - only the obvious differences.
Still, I'm convinced to go Epyc; just a *selection* of PCIe 4.0 Workstation MBs holding me back - I did read your article about the (only) PCIe 4.0 *server* MB (for desktop), and your notes about the lack of workstation features echoes my opinion.
Thanks for making these videos in addition to your articles on STH.
YT,
Rob
It _is_ missing something... half the PCIe lanes and memory channels. Still, 64 and 4, respectively, is not at all bad by any means!
There needs to be more WS MB’s available for Epyc.
I'm building an epyc workstation! probably would have gone threadripper, but picked up a 7702P for half price so literally HAD to build a system around it! using an asrock epycd8-2t and 256gb 2666 memory and 4x1TB nvme's.. it's got SO MANY PCIE lanes :D
More STH videos!? Yea!!!
Great video. Extremely useful
Got excites to see a video... Was disappointed to the low volume. Great stuff though.
Great content, thank you!
Curiously I was Dual Intel Xeon guy too, I've got two old 2670v1 for a while and they served me well, now I got a 3900X at 4.025GHz undervolted to 1.075V on AVX2, I expected to have similar performance, but that AVX2, IPC, and frequencies did surprise me quite a lot, between 80-130% performance increase on Keyshot (render software) which is amazing.
I agree with you on the connectivity aspect, is a great improvement, sadly I lost my chap DDR3 memory, and as I built a super portable system (dan-a4), having dual-channel and just two dimms slots makes everything a bit more difficult. Great video! Hopefully, a TR "3990X" will be shown at CES :).
It will
@@LtdJorge Now the big question, for how much? Some say that 3960X and the 3970X will receive a small cut in the price, but I seriously doubt that a 3990X would arrive for less than 4.5k, hopefully I will be wrong.
@@amigodesigns yeah, I cannot help you there. All I hope is it's competetitively priced or it has some monster performance gains.
@@amigodesigns I reckon it will be $4,000 - i.e., twice that of the 3970X.
There is no reason for it to be more expensive from a technical standpoint, as there is no monolithic manufacturing issues due to chiplets. Still, they may choose to charge more, but I don't think they will - they will choose consumer goodwill and prestige instead.
(funnily enough, in stark contrast to monolithic chips, the higher core count chips can actually cost less per core, as the IO die is a fixed cost, and thus constitutes a smaller fraction of the total cost in higher core count chips! Similarly, the 48 core model suggested to also be released - presumably named the 3980X - may have a favourable cost per core, like the 24 core 3960X, as it makes use of chiplets with only 6 of 8 cores active... So hopefully it costs less than $3,000. Chiplet approach really shows its strengths...)
@@mduckernz Yeah you're right, but normally you step up the more powerful models, just take into account the 3600x, 3700x, 3900x and 3950x, the perfomance/cost decrease when you go higher, same happens with the 3960x vs 3970x, and the 3970x is $2000 no way that the 3990x is going to be less than $4k, and to be 4000 they will have to lower the price of the 3970x and 3960x, maybe the hole line up of ryzen 3000 series, but that won't be a mad thing as they already have ryzen3 on the road, and probably by summer of this year there will be a new release with an expected uplift of 15% performance per core, which is blind blowing.
I can't speak to specifics but look into a lens that will widen your depth of field so your auto focus doesn't hunt around every time you slightly move forward and backward. For a static speaking only position like you use, this would help alot.
Coming from the synth community, I dig the LFO routed to color temperature.
Thank you for the video. Been looking something like this to upgrade the old xeon quad core server to about 16 core with hyper threading. Was thinking 1st gen threadripper or going epyc used hardware. It will run unraid and multiple dockers and vm's. A couple vm's will be for gaming remotely through the house using hdmi to ethernet converters. Still on the fences on which I would get though.
I see AMD EPYC, I upvote. Easy as that. Subscribed.
Set manually your white balance.
Your video always changing white balance.
Dont auto white balance.
Sorry my english is bad
Hello, I liked your video, but for my 1st workstation build, I wanted to use the AMD Epyc 7402P and not know exactly what motherboard is best to use.
It seems that there is not much choice for SP3 CPU's and I wonder if a dual CPU motherboard benefits overal if using 1 CPU.
Would love to hear your professional opinion about this.
I'd love to see how the latest threadripper is doing. =)
Just realize younger patrick is a little bit shy
Oh wow, I’ve wanted to convert an Ultra 20 for ages! I assumed that was just my weird obsession aha.
Ultra EPYC ftw!
Way easier than you would think too. The hardest part was finding a new/ open box one that was in good condition.
ServeTheHomeVideo yeah that’s the only thing stopping me, tbh! Finding a mint example is hard, especially in the UK 😩
ServeTheHomeVideo Great video too! Interested to see more content like this from STH.
jeus thats alot of facts in 12 minutes,well done
Nice Video. Bring down the low end of the vocal a notch and raise the mid to high end a bit. use a Limiter on the overall volume.
More videos from you guys for 2020?
SIGN ME RIGHT UP *liked and subbed*
I was just on ebay while visiting my parents. I found used 24 and 32 core epyc cpus for around $500.00. Motherboards are around the same. My media server has one of those dual xeon ali express knock off motherboards and a pair of 2680's. It works fine but I want more toys. Christmas is coming and it may be epyc this year.
I'm currently toying with an EPYC 7282 that I'd like to use as a Windows 10 workstation. The motherboard is the Asrock ROMED8-2T. It seems Windows can't hibernate on that machine. When I try to enable that feature, it tells me "the system firmware does not support hibernation". Do you have any idea how to fix this ? It's not even clear which firmware they are talking about (BIOS ? BMC ? something in the processor ?)
Do you have performance comparisons between the 3970X vs. EPYC 7502P?
I'm in the same boat as you are where I am trying to decide between switching to EPYC vs. Threadripper, precisely for all of the reasons that you mentioned in this video.
Hi Ewen. Great ask. We did not have those numbers in the 3970X review. You can look at p5 of the 3970X review www.servethehome.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-3970x-review-32-cores-of-madness/5/ and compare to what is in the 7502P review. www.servethehome.com/amd-epyc-7502p-review-topping-intel-xeon-at-one-quarter-the-price/2/
I know this is not an ideal way to compare, but best we can do to get you something fast.
Thanks boys
If you can put your script further from you then your eyes won't need to move as much.
100% right! Still waiting on the lens I want to use which means the camera and prompter were a bit closer than I wanted on this one. Still working on the setup. I also did not have a B-cam setup for this one.
@@PatrickKennedy2 Oof. How much is that lens gonna set ya back? And it didn't take away from the excellent content. Twas just an observation.
@@nickname1392 Not as much as the rent to have a little studio in Silicon Valley!
You need to boost your audio level a bit, it's very disturbing when I switch to and from your videos (if I have to change volume I'm disturbed), ask the LTT crew for some tips as RUclips makes this complicated with their volume normalization algorithm.
Audio too low can hear! Really want the video info...! Will have to listen later!!
I do gpu compute quite a bit. I found it easiest to set up a compute server with a port opened to internet. That way I can work on that server anytime, anywhere on anything. I like to use the vscode remote development extension. Btw. My server looks like a bitcoin rig with pcie x16 extension ribbons.
An 8 or 16 core Epyc would make a killer file/media server. Pair it with the correct Nvida GPU for NVENC hardware acceleration That would be a killer addition to my 1950x workstation.
The best part is I already have room in my rack. (all my computers both workstation and server are in inexpensive rosewill 4U chassis which live in a startech 25U rack.)
i used g34 on win7 - win8,1. with no problems.
can you confirm sp3 works well on win10 desktop os ?
Sums up a big issue, entry cost for tr workstation is too high and epyc is too low clock for the lower core counts....
HEY! has anyone actually checked to see whether when they changed the 3rd gen threadripper to use a new socket, whether they made it the same as epyc? Like, literally, did they take the chance to unify the two pinouts (obvs, of those 4094, threadripper has a load of memory and pcie that are not connected to anything)?
or is threadripper still different electrically to epyc? why? WHY?
Does anyone know if epyc workstations builds handle win10 and davinci for video audio and graphics editing.
The fact that threadripper CPUs are unlocked and have much higher clocks (even at stock) makes them better than EPYC for any CPU-intensive workloads. I would choose a 32 core TR over a 32 core EPYC for a server any day unless I really need the PCIe lanes or memory bandwidth. Although I will say that at 64 cores, 4 memory channels is probably not enough!
Yeah, getting the 64C model is probably not the best idea if your typical use case for it is memory bandwidth intensive..! It is twice the load that the dual channel 3950X sees (16C/32T on 2 channels of DDR4) after all, and I already saw that as getting close to being constrained by memory.
Still, at least it supports fast memory. If you have no need of ECC - it is a real shame that getting high speed ECC memory is so difficult! I cannot see any real barrier to doing it, say 3600 speed would be nice - then running the memory at 3600 MT/s, or at least 3200 MT/s (this is, after all, now even a JEDEC speed!), will help alleviate the bandwidth problems
@@mduckernz Found some 3200 RDIMM here www.newegg.com/p/1X5-003Z-017J2
I'm not sure what the CAS latency is though - probably higher than good desktop DIMMs (too bad they don't have Samsung b-die for servers). I actually just bought some Team Dark CL14 3200 b-die for my upcoming 3970x workstation build, so hopefully any memory bandwidth constraints are limited.
I wonder if those wrx80 chipset rumors are going to go anywhere.
id be fine with dual 8-12 core high clocked epycs at least in my personal servers
What about power delivery for PCIe 16x slots on EPYC MB? ATX24 and EPS12V (dedicted for CPU,MEM) probably is not enough. There is no aditional PCIe 6pin. For example www.gigabyte.com/cz/Server-Motherboard/MZ32-AR0-rev-10#ov
More data and infographics could be nice :)
I literally just completed the Intel vs AMD comparison for my next workstation. And while AMD offers a fantastic price per core with higher IPC , I ended up going with an Intel Xeon W-2295 on an ASUS WS C422 PRO/SE motherboard - in particular as it brings out all available 48 PCIe 3.0 lanes to slots and can *still* offer a ThunderBolt 3 port on top of that. It also has IPMI remote management.
On your topic of peak core speeds vs memory capacity, with the Intel Xeon W-2200 Series I get the best of both of those: 3.0GHz base with 4.6/4.8GHz boost under mixed workloads as well as access to RDIMM/LRDIMM memory for a larger and cheaper memory array than is possible on Threadripper. I totally had to give up prospect of more cores (unless bumping to the much more expensive Xeon W-3200 Series) and PCIe 4.0 doubling of potential I/O speed. (Bummer, but the only realistic use case is a Mellanox card at the moment.)
However what really tipped the scales for me was AMD's limited NVMe RAID support - especially in comparison to Intel's VROC. While AMD Threadripper does support NVMe RAID under Windows 10, I don't see any support for ESX nor any NVMe RAID support at all on Epyc. My full life-cycle intention is to repurpose this workstation as my next ESX server once the shininess has worn off in a year or so, so ready access to NVMe RAID under ESX is an important consideration to me.
It was a gut-wrenching decision process over many thousands of dollars, but I decided that I got more net functionality going Intel this round.
Unbuffered ECC pricing is nuts... Not viable if you need a lot of memory. Unbuffered vs Buffered pricing allows you to get a new F 7002 series.
Watching this I feel enormously grateful I didn't foolishly wait for the release of the S1 and instead got my A7III. Even though I don't have ANY native glass for it the continuous AF while recording with my sigma lenses blows this out of the water. Strongly suggest you set it to MF and stop down to f11 if you're going to continue doing this kind of talking head video.
Sound level is too low, had to crank speaker volume way up high. Then some other apps nearly blew my ears. Good video, bad editing.
Threadripper only supports 256GB memory. That's not much... :S
You are very quiet. It is almost impossible to hear you on my phone at arm's length.
Thanks! We did a lot to fix audio since this video. Newer videos should have better audio levels and less echo.
Plase, Please, Please take your camera out of auto.
Thanks for the info!
you hacked apart an unused Sun System!? jesus.
Speak up please. Project your voice.
Would have preferred a 2000 word text version. Almost everything said was known to me, and a long video of someone reading technical stuff is boring. Just as boring as when game statistic is read out loud.