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It's honestly needs it's own content to be a escape from borderlands I love the game but I wish it was a little more fantasy then a copy paste of the tiny tinas dlc I wish the dlc where more impact full of the fantasy we wanted over more chaos chamber runs I love the chaos chamber but it needs more of a borderlands influence to it
I don't know, I think the problem isn't Wonderlads, this is a problem with Borderlands 3 as a whole. This game never stuck with me. Gameplay wise It's great, but ultimatelly that's all the praise I can give It, the entire thing feels HOLLOW. The story was merely a placeholder, new characters are not insteresting and the old ones are portrayed in weird and frustrating ways, or are killed altogether, and finally, the EPIC deal right at the start made me completly sick. I can still go back to Borderlands 2 and the Pre-Sequel and replay them with the same joy as the first time, but I couldn't pass the first run of Borderlands 3. Maybe It's just me, but overall BL3 was a huge letdown that I will never recover from.
The side missions that are based on other video games (like the Ditcher) aren't fun and wacky like they used to be and it feels like they were written with actual hate towards those games
Replayability is everything. I had my 300+ hours of fun on the game, but the burnout has hit me harder than any other Borderlands game. Right now we have no NG+ and pushing through the story is a slog with the mountains of dialogue and pacing. 80% of a playthrough is required mobbing to proceed forward. Take that required mobbing out and you have a very short game. Right now maps are empty, DLCs lacks content, and there isn't much to do in the game. Sure there are dedicated farms, but most of them are horribly bad and I feel as that is their way of pushing players into the chaos chamber. When you limit farming to the chaos chamber and barf bunny loot farming, it gets stale fast. It's the TPS grinder problem all over again. Also, I don't find that there is many synergies to be had in the multiclass system. It feels like most builds rely heavily on one character/interaction and the other character is just there for the ride. The game has potential, but I think history is just repeating itself. The damage seems done and I don't know if many people will be coming back to the game anytime soon. It makes me sad to see the current state of the Borderlands franchise. At this rate I think I'm just gonna wait for Borderlands 4 and hope the game is done right.
I agree, although I had a lot of fun questing through the story for the first few times. The maps are empty compared to what they could have but the level design in this game feels better then the previous. I think if they fix dedicated drops, allow named enemies to respawn to diversify loot pools, add a NG+, and make real DLCs with real story and environment, we may have the best game in the series.
This game(and bl3) really need a dialogue skip option. The reason bl2 didnt was because almost all dialogue happened WHILE the gameplay. Now a fourth of the gameplay is sitting listening to dialogue, which is fine the first time, but hurts replayability so much
Another thing wrong. 98% of the weapons do no damage. You have to be specd into a certain build to do any damage. Takes the fun out knowing you're limited to 3 weapons
@@brawler5760 really? But people always say that bl2 is the best in the franchise, they never mention about weapon limitation at end game, is it really that bad? And how bad it is compare to bl3 ?
@@jabermogwai5996 Well I’ll just repeat something K6 said in the past. There’re only 15 legendaries in BL2 that are endgame viable. In BL3, there’re over 100 thanks to Gearbox buffing many of them. Also those people are just blowing smoke.
@@jabermogwai5996 I played much, much more 3 than 2. I feel like most of the 2 defenders are just trying to be edgy. 3 has much better gameplay across the board, endgame content that isn't just difficult for the sake of difficulty, and mayhem can kind of be a slog but it's nothing compared to OP levels. Farming was brutal for most weapons in 2, and of course your build options were super limited.
@@moon_wizard1250 same ! I finished playing 3 and then went back to 2. I hated the the progression, loot, and overall balance in bl2. Made me miss bl3 and how rewarding the progression and loot when defeating difficult bosses. Not to mention the dlcs is 3 really brought the game to life
- no slaughter domes - no raid bosses - no hunt missions - no ng+ - no resetting story missions - no endgame (literally only chaos chamber) - very little farmable bosses, doesn't matter anyway because farming is horrible outside CC 👍 - no expanded story from dlc Feel free to list anything else I'm missing
When this game came out I complained about the chaos chambers as endgame and got dogpiled on Reddit about how great the chaos chambers were, at which point I thought my time with the series must just be over then and deleted the game
- some weapons can't be enchanted - armor and accessories can't be enchanted - legendaries suck so bad I get pissed when my lost loot is filled with them instead of epics and rares - classes only have one skill tree - no level 72 - the most lag of any multiplayer game i've played so far - the skullsmasher brand weapons act as if they are firing, but no projectiles come out because of lag - no option to mail weapons and gear to other people. - too many weapons that are semi-auto only without the damage being worth it. - snipers and cannons too weak.
Wonderlands has the opportunity to give us LITERALLY anything the devs want to create due to no lore restraints yet we get the lamest content of ANY of the Borderlands series. Absolutely sad.
Exactly for example the main story was basically Tina’s campaign of Bunkers and Badasses, the dlc should have been the campaigns of other characters like Frette or Valentine. Or even Roland.
"Hunting gear" is such a massive thing in Borderlands. I want to be able to go to a specific area or boss and kill it 100 times for the one item with the correct rolls. Being able to know that "this boss WILL drop my item with enought time" is so important for keeping me in the game.
@@Viper-sx5zv imo loot bunnies were the right idea, keep the system of them but drop their pools, or maybe have it contain only worlds drops or half dedicated drops, add bosses back to the map and seperate their drop rates from loot luck and then add a NG+
Also for those truly great guns it's all about farming 3 or 4 of them and figuring out what the best parts combination is. Can't tell you how many times I've killed Savage Lee, had probably 100+ Unkempt Harolds. But it was all worth it when you finally get a perfect Double Penetrating version.
2 Problems 1, I hate the lot luck system, having it for world drops is fine, but leave dedicated drops alone, 2, I bought the season pass under the assumption that we would be getting at least a couple campaign dlcs and not just things similar to the chaos trial. Obviously their is still time for them to deliver on this but at the moment I'm disappointed
I agree, I payed the same price for my bl3 + season pass, as I did for the wonderlands + season pass, I was expecting the same amount of content. I continue to get disappointed with the dlcs, in comparison to the bl3 dlcs.
I'm hoping they're actually working on real DLC. It's still early and we didn't get a full dlc for BL3 for three months and were only two months into its life.
@@SteamedPickles we're 2 months in and 2 dlcs down I don't think this game Is gonna last a year life span unless they do a season 2 season pass and make it free
You said it perfectly. This game has so much potential, so much creativity went into making this game, the classes and more. Yet, the DLC feels like some of the shallowest content offerings we have received, especially when compared with the DLC content prior games have had. I feel like there is a miscommunication in what Gearbox intended for the post launch plans of this game vs what the community thought it would be and people are pissed. The lack of good dedicated farms + the frequent nerfs are hurting players motivation to play because what’s the point of going out and farming something for hours if it is going to get nerfed next week. Bl3 had tons of nerfs but came out the other side an amazing game and I trust gearbox’s balancing decisions, but with a more challenging game, enemy damage scaling with each chaos level, good items being hard to come by, the nerfs hurt even more and the guns just don’t feel very good without interactions behind them.
you put it perfectly into words . glad you’re acknowledging how hurt the community is over the state of wonderlands, its depressing. less and less build diversity, stale end game after awhile due to only chaos chamber and short timegated “dlcs” my intrest evaporated after c35. its jarring because the lead up to that was honestly so magical.
@Rhyleigh Mackenzie You are a strange one. Do you blame all your problems on other people? You are blaming content creators for discovering and publicising interactions that were programmed into the game. So maybe blame the devs instead.
@@flourichs4030 agree with you 100 my man's doing his thing and this guy is a hater cuz why? Because he made a RUclips video on the liquid cooling so now he ruined not only this game, but the previous one as well.. like do you hear yourself?
They already did that with 3, with their abysmall story writing and character development. Personally I could give 2 shits about the loot, a hard games nice, but I want to know if they fixed their writing and world
@@emptyjumplow I'll give you never that intratrcate. Plot was simple in the first and second game. But the world rules were pretty solid, the humor was slightly morbid, and characters had pretty reasonable desighns and backstory. They knew their lore and how things ought to have been laid out knowing pandora was once a vast ocean now a dessert hellhole abonded by all but the most stubborn homesteaders and ruthless bandits.
BL3 is an amazing game. People hate on the story BUT did you know that more players by percentage beat BL3’s story than did BL2? So they must have done something right. Also the overall gameplay is miles ahead of BL2. Build variety and gear variety is better. Endgame is better. It’s just that damn story people point to. Borderlands games have NEVER had amazing stories. Amazing VILLAINS? Yes. But story wise BL games are pretty average.
It's lack of replayability in my opinion lack of New game Plus is what did it for me that's pretty much what made borderlands so replayable it's just being able to start story over with all your gear and get better gear and then do it again and improve upon that gear and ect and wonderland has a pretty good story it'd be fun to play through story again without having to start from scratch every time
Where to start : Every patch they release it fix one thing and break two or more The DLC's or the PLC are the worst in borderlands series and they are not worth for the season pass The endgame is nice but it getting boring need more enemies appears in the chamber they low The UI and split screen are broken
The splitscreen was the main cause for me not to buy the game. I did not buy it when it launched because I had no spare time to play anyway. I than played it with a mate during a visit to him. The UI on splitscreen was completly bananas, leaving critical information out. Any intention to buy the game myself where buried that day. And as it seems, I were absolutly right to do so...
@@johannesbragelmann6629 if you don’t have the time for the endgame grind anyways it’s a great game to play through once. You should probably stay away from the dlcs tho. Splitscreen UI and UI in general was addressed, dunno how much of it was fixed.
The most infuriating feeling is that they could make so many crazy, good story DLCs for this game and there is just silence. I love Wonderlands. I couldn’t stop until i played through it. I don’t like chaos chambers. I did them once or twice, then done. Created a new character. I really want decent story DLCs. 😥
if we don’t get a second play through of the story and at least one good story DLC i’ll be genuinely sad. this is my favorite game in the series gameplay wise. it just deserves the love and the content. i feel like a second play through is just needed in these games, id like to have another shot at getting chaos enhanced quest rewards
I came to the comments section just to say that a second playthrough, after being all maxed out and ready to take on anything, has always been real fun for me with borderlands and I’m sad that we don’t get that with wonderlands. You said it greatly
I have definitely “dipped out”. I had fun my first time through the campaign and for a couple hours in the chaos chambers but it wore off real fast. The fact that I can just multiclass to see every class in action makes it hard to justify another playthrough. No ng+. The base campaign is extremely short and the story is really forgettable. There are way too few legendaries and a lot of the dnd theme seems to involve duct taping a crossbow to a normal gun and making it harder to aim. The dlc is a joke. I’m done. I regret buying this game. It had so much potential to move borderlands forward but instead it feels like BL 3.5. It probably should have been a dlc expansion to borderlands 3 rather than a full priced title. If I paid 40$ for this, I’d be happy with my purchase. I paid 100$ for the game and season pass and feel extremely ripped off.
@@isaacbaker8784 my fault for buying it day one. I put 400+ hours into borderlands 3, had max level, fully geared characters of all four classes, experimented with making my own builds, etc. I lost interest when the mayhem overhaul, but I played a lot of 1,2 and 3. Wonderlands DND theme plus the the chaos chambers sounded amazing on paper. But there are fewer enemy types, way fewer guns, a much shorter campaign, and it just generally feels like a potentially great DLC that they inflated into a spin-off with minimal effort so they could charge full price. Learned my lesson. Never preorder, never buy day one.
@@johnwrath3612 could you imagine if this was the final dlc in bl3? It would’ve been amazing to play with the old vault hunters but as a stand-alone with shallow nameless characters it’s so forgettable
When this game came out, I actually declared it my favorite borderlands. As I progressed, I realized how incredibly flawed it was, and I'm just completely burned out and super disappointed
This is kinda how it is for me too. Loved it for a month straight. But disappointed by the lack of dedicated drop farms across the maps and the extremely repetitive nature of the chaos chamber
You obviously haven't played 2 in awhile then if you thought this was better. You're like the guy that hasn't gotten laid in awhile and falls in love with the first whale that touches him.
This comment right here is exactly what happened to me. I LOVED playing the tiny Tina’s dlc back in the day on 2, it was my favorite dlc, so when this game came out, I was SOOOOOO excited for them to bring more of that energy to light and it became lackluster to me after the story was finished. Don’t get me wrong I loved the story, that was the good part. But the fact that there is damn near no replay ability, combined with the jokes they released as “paid DLC” is terrible to me and I’ve loved almost the entire rest of the series. When I pay 100$ basically for the big boy edition that’s supposed to come with the dlcs, I’m expecting good thought out dlc content. Not a couple of levels that feel like a redone version of the chaos chamber. That’s disappointing to me. It’s just a grind over and over and no good background to it.
The season pass for this game is what pissed me off the most. We are getting what they promised but I don't think they mentioned how criminally short the mirrors were going to be. Feels like a cash grab
For me, I always felt lost when it came to the Skill Tree system. I never knew what I could or wanted to plan towards. Being limited to one skill tree for half the game and then only seeing another skill tree after you've chosen your second class meant I always felt like I was shooting in the dark. I finished the game a few weeks back and I couldn't tell you what any of the skill trees do, including the two I picked.
My Wonderlands experience: I maxed one character. Got all my shrines and bonuses unlocked. Started doing chaos chambers. Got a few chaos levels completed before realizing I was bored to tears and had no desire to repeat chaos chambers over and over (to what end?). Not sure if GBX expected a different outcome than that but that was my experience.
Fashionably late to your comment but this was also my experience as well. Chaos Chambers as the sole end game was a bore. Then they gave us the DLC which was just chaos chambers with some prettier makeup. Farming chambers just to farm them some more was never going to work. In the mainline borderlands games, farming for good builds helped progress into harder new game plus modes, which then led to farming for raid bosses. There was a sense of progression there. No such progression exists in Wonderlands - it’s just repeating the same random chambers endlessly.
Lmfao here I am chaos 100 sadley thier isn't more helping others get to chaos 100 and having an absolute fucking blast haven't even. Touched the others
Not being able to go full melee/keep my melee weapon out at all times was a huge letdown for me. The lack of mob density made the endgame feel really boring. Would like to see them double the pack size and decrease the hp or something.
"One of the fun things in Borderlands games is always hunting for your gear" It's a LOOTER shooter. Getting the good loot (gear) is one of the MAIN reasons for playing after the initial story.
Given how they're seemingly hellbent on making Chaos Chambers the post game content, they could at least expand on that with a few new variations of it. They could add a boss-rush mode, a Circle of Slaughter mode, a Survival mode, a 100-room challenge, a "Digistruct Peak" equivalent, etc. But you can only blast through low mob density areas so many times before it gets stale. Hell, even just adding a "True" switch to the Chaos Chamber that applies the recently added Co-Op changes to your run would be something.
I do agree with the dedicated drops part- frankly, it's hard to get myself in the mood to grind gear when I know that more than likely, I'll be hitting up the Chaos Chambers. I honestly like the DLC/PLC- more PLC 2 then 1 obviously, because it feels like we're getting more of story possibilities in it. That said, I didn't expect something huge as far as stories go- but something more akin to a one-shot in DnD, which is still a bit of story- and some fair loot.
The multiclass system is kinda nice, except you only really get access to 2 skill trees at the same time. This inevitably pushes you in a very narrow direction. Sure you could respec multiple times, but most people (myself included) make a nice combination and stick with it. What this eventually ends up with is 15-21 different classes (with huge overlap) each with only 2 skill trees. This usually means that most of the class combinations kinda feel the same. After completing the story and all sidequests, you probably near max level (think lvl 35). Add some boss runs and the DLC in there and by the time you have really seen everything you hit max level and made a build. At this point the only thing that drives the pptimisation/grind part of the game is a sense of accomplishment by beating the chaos chambers at max difficulty. In previous games you had 2-3 runs through the game, each progressively harder until you hit max level (69-80), this means there's an external push to get better and farm. Sure after playthrough 3 this gets stale real fast, but it's better in my opinion than just shooting in the same arenas. Furthermore at max level it was quite possible to hit the capstones of 2 different skill trees and speck into a 3rd. Giving a better feeling of costumisation. At the end of the day the game felt short to me. I completed the main game, did some chaos runs, played with some friends. And then I got bored of it.
The low amount of points is really a huge thing. If we had another 10-15 levels i think we'd be in a much better place, but without those levels, you often end up with one primary tree, and another that exists solely to use some of the early stat boosts. It doesnt feel like you're playing a combo of 2 classes, it feels like you're playing with one class/tree and a bit of spice.
My biggest complaint is so much content is tied to the random encounter/ dungeon model. Which is just a shorter slaughter shaft. I would have wanted more of those to be explored locations.
I enjoyed playing it, but overall it felt like a larger DLC instead of a full game. This is the first Borderlands game I don't see myself getting the season pass for or even running the story with all classes for a main. While I haven't completely given up on it yet, I feel the burnout coming.
i’m definitely with you. the maliwan takedown was what i did to test out janky builds in bl3 and i loved it. every inch of the takedown was fun and replayable, but the chaos chamber is just room after room after boring-ass room and it’s not the same. on top of the maliwan takedown, we had proving grounds, hemo, and the seer as raid bosses to fight, but there’s yet to be a wonderlands raid boss (unless DLC bosses count but the DLCs are trainwrecks anyway)
I feel like by this point, a lot of this is stuff Gearbox should've learned by now. Give them a year to fix things because they pulled it around with BL2 and BL3 is not a valid excuse because they seem to be making the same mistakes over and over again. Non-farmable bosses was a mistake made in The Pre-Sequel, and people hated it. Nerf after nerf after nerf is demoralizing. Sometimes it's ok to let some OP stuff stick around while you take care of what NEEDS to be taken care of. Fix the stuff that isn't working as intended, bring the under performing stuff up to your baseline THEN bring over performing stuff down. The balance patches need to ironically be a balance of this.
Well to be fair, every time they nerf something, they introduce new weapons for us to try out and/or buff other weapons that are already in the game. I think the reason why they nerf stuff is so that we don't play with the same gear all the time, but to give other gear a chance.
Lmao if they keep doing the same thing over and over why y’all keep buying? Why y’all keep playin? Keep giving it positive attention? You feel? Y’all if you want a game to improve shove that shit down the devs throat. I’m tired of the “I don’t like this game, this game has clear issues, yet I’m always going to buy the next expansion, I’m going to look at all the content, I’m going to continue playing the game. And even though the cycle has been the same for years Imma continue to keep getting the game.” This has been an issue w all the borderlands games. No they shouldn’t be doing this every time, but y’all shouldn’t be falling for it every time either. Glad I didn’t spend 60 on this Same things gonna happen what happened with bl3. Everyone going to complain, call it shit. Say they’re going back to bl2 and the game won’t last. Then the updates dlc and patches fix the game over time, and the the cycle resets.
The barf bunnies killed it for me. Trying to get a class mod for 5 or 6 hours and not seeing it drop a single time really made me question how much fun I'd have with the game trying to do that for every single slot for gear. Yeah I could download a Character from someone else with all the loot, but then what am I gonna play for after that?
Yeah…I’ve played all other Borderland games with every single Vaulthunter, played all DLCs, picked my favorite Vaulthunter for every Borderlands game and played them again, picked my second favorite Vaulthunter, played them again, played them again to try builds I see K6, Joltz and others recommend. I ‘ve done difficult farms, except the 94 sham…haha…and tackled raid bosses with my minimal skills and always felt good beating these bosses. I jumped back on to play BL3 after beating this game cause I love the feel of BL3. Wonderlands…I have played once and don’t feel like playing it again. I loved the concept and the play through, but it did not make want to keep playing it, I just didn’t care for it and didn’t pull me the way the Borderland Franchise has in the past. Many of the things you said are pretty much the reasons I haven’t touched the game again. I hope they fix it, until then I’m replaying BL1, BL2, TPS, Tales and BL3…
@@YoBrand15 Hell yes…haha…BL2 is amazing. The story is the best, it’s what wins over people. BL3 just feels great to play and I love it regardless of it’s janky story, and with BL2 the game play is good but will feel like a downgrade in that sense but the story and other things in the game like the DLCs are fantastic. I guess it just depends on what you prefer, but it is definitely a must. I mean I say play all of them, because I think they all have something to offer since they all gave something to BL3 and the lore. Happy hunting Vault Hunter.
@@jaimemoralacreacion yeah the gameplay is the most important thing to me. I love the combat in bl3 so far but I need to look up how to really use the skill trees (seems like you should only pick one tree since you can only use one of the three abilities at a time). The story isn't that important to me, but I might still give bl2 a try. I feel late to the party lol. Thanks!
@@YoBrand15 Yeah, gameplay is most def better in BL3…haha…and yeah you can use only one skill at a time but switch them during gameplay. For example when I play Flak, I like running the Gamma Burst skill for mobbing and for bosses I switch to a Fade Away style. So feel free to place points in any tree and play around with them, since they all synergize fairly well. Not until end game and Mayhem levels does it really matter where you place points for builds.
Stopped playing after the really disappointing first PLC. No tied loot to bosses key point. Loot luck felt arbitrary at best. It’s a real shame. I played BL2 for well over 500 hours with multiple play throughs. BL3 about 500 hours too. Wonderlands? All done inside 120 and I simply cannot see myself ever coming back. Chaos Chambers is just not fun.
For me it was waaaaaaayyyy too easy (I started on hard) which I assumed would be corrected by NG+ but that didn't happen and chaos chamber just felt like a repetitive, mundane chore so I could loot the best versions of weapons just to reach the realization there's nothing fun to use them on.
when replaying BL 3 the most painful part is the agonizing, tedious and painfully annoying dialoges, i found out that u can skip a lot of them by safe and quit but for missions where u have to follow someone u always have to endure it by walking and basically doing nothing...horrible gamedesign and thats not only for the borderlands franchise, i think for example world of warcraft did the whole quest system perfect in 2004 or the dark souls games by skipping the text if u want to
1. New Game + 2. No More Stingy Loot , Increase All Drop Rates by 30% Globally. The Loot Drop Rate for No Tier Weapons(no C/V/P/A variant) should lower to 60% at Chaos 35 and continue to lower if more levels introduced. This will allow for the drop rate of Primordials and Volatiles to feel much better because the loot pool at the bottom is interfering with the Loot at the top. A Primordial drop rate of 1% is abysmal. 3. Allow rerolls on armor mods. let players reroll a class benefit on an armor mod. If I get a one class armor mod, i should be able to roll for a second class and keep the benefits of the first. Or change the second class on a 2 class armor mod to benefit my second class. I have countless armor mods that have 2 classes but only benefit 1 of my current classes and i hate it. 4. Add bounties to the game! The bounty boards already exist in the game on every map, according to Ki11er Six 70% of enemies aren’t being used. Plaster these enemies on all the bounty boards in game. Bounties in Brighthoof are procedurally generated endlessly, but force you to go to the maps in story mode to complete them. Bounties on map are static and unchanging satisfying the loot hounds who want to boss farm. You finish the bounty, you get the boss, you run it back. 5. Allow vending machines to sell Legendary loot. Its actually insane that they never show up in the vending machines. The offline mode no longer gives legendary vending machines. There’s more I could say but I’ll save it for a time when i believe they are listening. If you read this far, the part I hope you retain the most is #4. If gearbox can get it done, the players might return.
He said 70 enemies but still, bounties sound really good. Thats a lot of missing content they could package back in the game. New Game + with quests that reward the highest tier version of the loot would be awesome. I also think their should be legendary variants of epic weapons. this would fix the lack of legendary hydra, guns with wings, and pixie guns in the game but also add more diversity in legendary loot pool with other weapons.
Definitely hit some of the big spots there. But I will definitely add in the fact that the Chaos Chambers are extremely difficult to keep motivated with. I can't even find the strength to get to level 35 on my main character. I want to love the game, but the endgame content just isn't there for me.
They've shown they can put enchants on everything in wonderlands, so i wish they would go back and patch borderlands 3 to be able to anoint mission items and add anoints to non anointed gear with the Earl reroll.
My personal reason for going back to BL3 was that I never powerful. With enemies constantly leveling with me it felt like I had no breathing room to experiment with a fun build or to stay with a weapon I liked which might be a little underleveled. In the other borderlands games I was able to feel powerful without having to optimize every skill point while still being challenged if I choose not to grind.
I think you nailed tbh. My biggest issue is the loot luck. Its like the chicken and egg situation. To get good loot, get through the chaos chambers. But you have to get through the chaos chambers. But because you dont have great weapons you get stuck, builds help but not to the max, you need both. On top of that, repeat runs are too time consuming with little reward. I dropped out playing TTW for this reason. Went back to BL2 and 3. Now Im trying TTW and after 1 weekend of immense frustration and no decent loot. Im shelving it. Im not even going to pkay the PLC 3 Im that annoyed. Like you, I think TTW has the potential for greatness. Thinking back BL1 had balancing issues and maps were annoying in places (thinking T Bone junction). But unless they improve that loot luck or get rid of it and make farming in the maps not just chaos chambers, then Im not not likely to return
To be fair, you have the exact same problem in all the borderlands games that I've played and it never made sense to me. You need good loot to farm in a way that is fun, but you only get good loot by farming. So by the time you're properly equipped to farm.. There is no purpose in farming.
@@KaylaJoyGunn I think the issue is amplified in TTW. In BL2 you can farm at a low leve the best pistol in the game - Unkempt Harold., which can help you enjoy the game for a fair few levels. Same with the Bee shield
The dlcs and loot luck killed Wonderlands. Borderlands 3 spoiled us with legendaries dropping all the time and the dlcs that were good and took time to complete. Not only did the dlcs take longer they had a story to tell they also added new legendaries that were viable and level cap increases. Borderlands 3 is far from balanced but it gave us a glimmer of hope that future Borderlands games would be better than their predecessors. So far Wonderlands has failed to live up to what I hoped it could be. I hope the rest of the dlcs are better but I have my doubts. Maybe this was just an experiment by Gearbox to attempt to find balance for Borderlands 4 🤔
@@Sodamachine62 they hit it out of the park with borderlands 2 imo, at least with the loot aspect, all legendary drops are easily farmable with dedicated drops and you have some cool ways of farming for pearls/seraph. Nowadays BL2 would see dozens of nerfs and would make some very awesome weapons weak af. Can you imagine sandhawk+bee on Wonderlands? Or the Pimpernel, or the Harold or any of the other strong Bl2 guns?
Borderlands 3 isn't in a bad spot now, so it's sad to see them go through another ugly duckling phase with a game of theres. You'd think they would have learned from where borderlands 3 did well.
Besides the kreig dlc (honestly my least favorite dlc out of 2 and 3) I agree. Not only that but they’re too lazy to even add new enemy types for Pete’s sake
You hit all the notes K6. Perfectly said. I wanted to like Wonderlands SO BAD. But I made the decision to uninstall it for the time being until it either gets an overhaul or Gearbox can really show they want to put in the time for it. I need the hard drive space for other things for the time being but this has been more than a disappointment, it’s like a long time and close friend letting you down.
This was definitely a stop gap or filler game lol. The real deal was always Borderlands 4 (The Last Borderlands according to leaks), and it'll probably be next gen only on UE5.
it has Pre Sequel syndrome nonfarmable bosses (without read only farming), BL3 syndrome too much loot handed to you everything explodes with every rarity of item, Some enemies are too chunky for the enemy types around them messes up the flow of fights youll kill everything within seconds then youll have one guy that you chip at his hp there are more but im lazy
And its own syndrome. Imagine playing BL3 on mayhem 10 or 11 and getting only mayhem 3 gear almost constantly. Thats what wonderlands does with its chaotic/volatile/primordial/ascended gear Edit: almost forgot the fact there's ZERO endgame besides boring chambers
Chaos chambers need exclusive gear. Dedicated drops need fixing. The combination of both means you have reason to farm bosses and also still run CC’s. I feel GB’s need to want force you into CC’s as end game meant they leant too far into it at the cost of a more balanced option. Was an all or nothing gamble.
I agree with your first point, but it feels like it kind of does. Chaos Chamber is currently the best world drop farm. Are you saying that some of the world drops should be dedicated drops from the Barf Bunnies?
Some people are complaining about lack of content after 100 - 200 hours. News flash, the game has been out for 2 months. There has never been a BL title to release more than 200 hours of content within the first 2 months. Maybe, ya know, play other games or take some time.. outside for a little while.
For me, the dedicated drops are everything. Since I don't get a lot of time to play this game, I'm always playing catch up. I got to chaos lvl 9 and then boom, they increased it to lvl 35. I rely on the best weapons to make the game easier because I want to enjoy the time I have with it and not stress so much about beating regular bosses. I remember farming Knuckle Dragger for the hornet every time I started a new character playthrough because it made the game easier, not easy. I farmed Droll for 2 days to get a better gluttony, 4 hours each day, and only got one gluttony and it was only marginally better than the one I already had. That sucks.
@@georgegood5646 it sucks because u either have to rely on broken builds with near perfect equipment to beat these bosses or u get stuck in one phase of a boss and die. I can't beat the Dragon Lord after that dragon comes out because the dragon takes so much damage. I farmed LeChance for 4-5 hrs Sunday and got 2 Swordsplosions, 1 chaotic but not multiplier and just a regular one with no multiplier. 😩
The overworld just feels empty to me. I miss vehicles or just exploration. A lot of the weapons don’t feel unique to me either. The ones that are unique are either extremely strong or unusable. The chaos chamber is a very boring form of progressing. It gets very dry after the first few runs. Even when you throw in the final bosses it still feels very underwhelming.
Game dev perspective: Most of the issues boil down to gearbox is inexperienced at live service games. I’m not a borderlands fan, but some former coworkers were hyped to play Tina and I picked it up and am still playing in a social context, but no longer grinding for gear etc. Essentially when my last buddy gets through the main story I’ll be done. 1) dlcs don’t have a reason to exist. In a live service game you add new systems and reasons for people to monetize somehow. In this case buying the dlc. It has to serve a useful function to players. The current dlcs provide a worse alternative to a system that is already in the game, the chaos chamber,p. If the dlc allowed you to grind enchant rerolls quicker for instance they would ease some of the rng frustration and have a useful function for players. It’s either that or add good stories, and using high profile voice talent means the budget for producing dlcs goes nuts and finding a time when your talents’ schedules line up is almost impossible. 2) The rng is abusive. Look I get it, their whole deal is essentially unlimited amounts of variety of gear. But they designed so much suboptimal crap that’s just vendor fodder (partially to hide problem 3, partially to hide the fact that if they give you good gear you’ll run out of stuff to do quickly) that the odds of giving you something worthwhile is essentially non existent. I spent 200k crystals on rings over a weekend and didn’t get anything worth keeping. And my gear is crap. Similarly I’ve rerolled enchants 80 times on swordsplosioms and not gotten the result I’ve wanted. Note it’s on a mediocre swordsplosion, because getting a good one requires even more rng and then the wrong enchant rolls anyways. Relying on bad rng to hide your problems is not what a good live service team does. You use dlc or product updates to fix them. 3) the gear isn’t transformative. Getting a new piece of gear doesn’t open up completely new play styles. It’s all incremental . You’ll find a better gun, but nothing that say transforms how a skill functions completely creating new opportunities to explore new strategies and builds. The depth is lacking, so you hide it by keeping people from getting the gear you want. If you expect people to play for 1-200 hours, no big deal. If you want someone to play for years then that’s a no go. Could they fix these issues in a bunch more dlc releases? Sure. But that requires new marketing campaigns to reattract players, bringing someone back is much more expensive than keeping them in the first place. All this takes different skills and a different mind set than gearbox has hired over the years. They’re good at what they do, I was pretty impressed by Tina as a single play through experience, but the holes start to show when their success with a game outstrips their planning. Also Covid and the difficulties in keeping staff over the last couple years have made things harder, possibly impacting what they were able to accomplish and causing last minute changes in plans multiple times. It’s unfortunate, but good live service producers are adept in addressing these sorts of things and prioritizing both short and long term needs. What it looks like to me is they burnt everything to deliver a solid game, and when it did well they had no gas left in the tank to get the next drop out.
"Also Covid and the difficulties in keeping staff over the last couple years have made things harder, possibly impacting what they were able to accomplish and causing last minute changes in plans multiple times. It’s unfortunate, but good live service producers are adept in addressing these sorts of things and prioritizing both short and long term needs. What it looks like to me is they burnt everything to deliver a solid game, and when it did well they had no gas left in the tank to get the next drop out." Gearbox lost 54 employees from 2013-19. A lot of talent left the company prior to BL3. Still havnt found anyone to fill the boots.
They dropped action skill augments too and slam effects except for one that's pretty lackluster in my opinion coming as a quest reward. I think the melee weapons are cool but should probably be locked to each class so that when you choose from two classes you can equip either of their weapons in the melee slot. That way the cool melee developments, like being able to chuck the clawbringer hammer and then recall it right back, could be augments in the skill trees. It would be so cool to have the stabbomancer weapon be a dagger and have an augment somewhere down the skill tree that turns it into throwing knives, or one that lets the spore warden bow fire an explosive arrow or bola etc. The gun/grenade/class mod/shield/artifact/action skill setup has nice depth that might get watered down too much by including melee weapons and by separating artifacts into three pieces
exactly why I'm taking a break, I love the franchise and have experienced each game in their entirety + dlc, this game felt amazing coming in, you get insane loot that shreds and makes bosses boring even when nerfed, the dlcs were just. short. dice were ruined for playing with friends now I can't help friends, I haven't even played the new dlc I'm just gonna be bored after a run. I'm always hopeful but it ends up being the downfall, thats why I started taking after kratos. "keep your expectations low boy, and you will never be disappointed" and that's how I've been since and it's very very helpful bcs I mean.. look around. have a good day if you read all this garbage guys.
still a great game and feels good, but I don't think I'm gonna be coming back to it if it's just gonna be more of this sadly. other games will catch my attention.
@@guftders 100% I feel bad for chum everytime I kill him it's sad to see this kinda effort in an amazing franchise, and the game most if not everyone thought was gonna be the best most unique borderlands. it's still great but if all the dlcs are like this I mean. idk.
Yeah I had a lot of fun with this game But there is definitely a lack of replayability. That and then the crazy nerfs is what made me dip out. I told myself I would come back when the DLC dropped and... yeah. I'll definitely come back after some time passes but until then I'm just gonna go play some more BL2 lol.
Here's why I like TTW: I tried very hard in my youth to get into Borderlands... but with TTW, it was easy. The pacing was good. The game felt great. The comedy actually got a good chuckle out of me here and there. It's a great game on sale. Would I pay full price? Probably not. But if you're new to Borderlands or wanna get into D&D, it's a great bridge between the two.
The whole loot luck thing sounds to me like they were trying to make this more akin to say, diablo. You gear up with magic find and go hunting for gear.... but it doesn't work for a looter shooter. No matter how they reskin it. That's just my opinion, though. Haven't played it yet, so this is just my guess.
I do feel the "PLC"'s were underwhelming and was extremely surprised how quickly my brother and I finished them. However, I have hope that this was intentional on Gearbox's end and look forward to an amazing campaign style PCL coming soon. The loot system did have it's pros in my opinion. I liked how I was able to get some amazing legendary/purples early on in the chaos chamber without having to fight some tough bosses when I wasn't really geared up yet. But, now being at max chaos level, it's really inefficient when it comes to farming for a particular gear. This annoyed my brother and I as we grinded for hours not getting the gear we wanted.
If wonderlands had the same replay system as all the other games and story dlc it’d be the best game in the borderlands series. They just turned the replay into a “post game” that’s similar to tons of games that have no where near the charm is a waste of a lot of great things. My first play through was a 10/10 but I’ve never been so disappointed by an endgame.
This is why I've held of playing for now, I did the same with bl3, I waited a year, this ment my first playthrough was a lot more balanced and I had more dlc to enjoy
I will say my biggest problem with wonderlands is it seems they are actively trying to hedge all the weapons against the super deep game breaker build types of players. This unfortunately has left players like myself who in the last few years has become a very casual player and without having atleast a handful of your standard dedicated farms spaced out that you can easily find, I'm left to plug along dying endlessly. I understand the thought of the loot luck vs dedicated but it leaves your more casual loyal fans to suffer never having above a slightly above average blue weapon.
Fellow casual welcome, they keep forgetting about us, the ones that can’t or rather won’t spend 300 hours of their time on a single game like this one lol
As someone who never got into late game borderlands where you farm for hours on specific bosses to perfect your build to go into OP levels im not gonna comment on Chaos chambers. I’ve owned this game for about a month and still have not finished it. I like the characters, the maps are gorgeous yet empty. But something about it just feels stale already. I feel like I have to take breaks to do something else because of the weird progression. I’ve been playing since borderlands 1 in 2009 and I’ve never had this much issue playing through a game before. Even launch BL3 I finished within a week. I think it’s just how mundane and Samey a lot of nonlegendaries feel and even some legendaries don’t feel that legendary.
To me early changes definitely ostracized the causal player including the spellzker nerf, which to this day sal’s pimperhab is in bl2. Chaos chambers are a grind beyond op levels. Hard core players love them, but I got one character through and I’m done. Premium gear should drop for all chaos levels giving players a true option to climb the levels. Even if they make bosses respawnable, some like Grissom is at the end of a 3rd chamber. Generally speaking people don’t want to slog through killing a bunch of enemies for a 90% failure rate.
I must admit, I agree. I just got the game about a week ago and beat the whole story and side quest and loved it but I don’t see myself doing this for all characters like I did with BDL3 plus there’s just so many random items that I feel it would take ages to get a perfect build. Don’t think I’ll be buying the season pass :/
I miss the old school grinding that bl2 had. It was fun to farm for a day to collect a new legendary. Now a days they drop like candy from a pinata. Add on all the hackers dropping every gun in the game in multi-player matches and well it just took out the fun for me.
Two things: the overwhelming majority of players don’t have DAYS to spend looking for ONE drop. BL2 does a bad job of valuing players time investment. Secondly, NEVER play in open lobbies. It was bad on BL2 as well. Modded black gear. Gear that would brick your character, etc. BL3 has PLENTY of hard grinds for us hardcore players. That’s the whole point of my Quest for God Roll videos
As someone who hasn't played this yet, I got lost quickly after he started explaining the drop rate and luck system, it sounds so complex and confusing in this game. Also, reading other comments it seems that this game is a one time experience kind of the thing, as in you go to the end, beat it, play the dlcs and you're done. Tbh, I don't think I can nor want to make the commitment to play this one for long, so I kind of take that as a good thing.
Well, once you read any drop and luck system in a borderlands game, it’s bonkers. Just to clear that up, it’s way better then you think since you can highly abuse spawns and drops in any game (which they want you to do btw)
Another flaw I’m finding, not enough classes. Due to the fact that you can dual class your options are way more limited so you don’t feel like you can do tons upon tons of builds like in borderlands 2 and especially in borderlands 3.
Personally my problem is that I don't have much time to play this game so I went for the best gear like killersix and the community recommended/used and everytime I catch up there is a nerf or change. It's frustrating to farm new stuff with the little time I had for this game.
Listened to the end, as you asked, and you hit most everything I would have said. Might have added a bit to a couple of things, but here's what I will add. 1: T for teen rating: This immediately tells people "This isn't your parents' Borderlands". And it isn't. Most everything the writers put in is a joke of some sort, and none of them hit. I think the only time I even chuckled in this game, was Mr. Torgue blowing up the ocean, *finally* and the fish hit the screen. That was decently good. Most everything else was just...no. 2: Loot system: This is where I add to what you said. A looter shooter needs.......LOOT. Not an impasse system that forces you to go out of your way, possibly spending extra HOURS, searching for dice that allows you to MAYBE get some loot. I think every game developer should have learned from Anthem about that at this point. Also, purple *epic* rarity guns should NEVER be better than legendaries...EVER. 3: Chaos system: 20 was fine. They could have made a few DLC, added new guns and spells, added a class or two, then 6 to 9 months in, maybe bumped chaos to 25 or 30. Nothing drastic, just something to keep the interest in grinding high. Going to 35 after a month was atrocious. 4: Tina herself: I LOVE Tina in BL2. Heck, I loved her in BL3. Same nuttiness, just now a young adult. This Tina, I don't like. She feels more like everyone's mom than her own little explosives loving, chocolate chip cookie and crumpet devouring little psychopath. Maybe that's what Gearbox was aiming for? If so, no bueno. And then here's the controversial disagreement with one thing you said. This is coming from a 45 year old man who started gaming at the age of 4 with the Atari 2600, so yes, been gaming a while. Bad games start bad, mediocre games start below average. Good games start mediocre, great games start good, and Legendary games need no help. Generally anything from Nintendo 64 back, you knew what you got. Bad games were bad, good games were good, then you had your FF VIIs, your Chrono Triggers, and Chrono Cross for that matter. You had your Super Metroids and Metroid Primes. You had Super Mario 64, StarFox 64, GoldenEye, the list of legendaries goes on and on. In this age, developers think they can give us sh**, *See Anthem, Fallout 76, and Battlefield 2042 for prime examples* have us buy "Season Passes" for the garbage they give us, then maybe over the course of a year or so, add a bunch of patches that make the game decent to good. *See No Man's Sky for the perfect example of that.* So does Wonderlands have potential? Yes, but that potential should have been given at launch. As you said, BL2 and 3 didn't start out great, but they turned into gems. I still say BL2 is better than 3, we'll agree to disagree on that K6, but Wonderlands shouldn't need 6-12 months of fixes before it becomes good. Most people will be gone by then, and not return. I'll end it there. Your additional thoughts our good comment section, if you have any.
I remember in borderlands 3 me and buddies had the option to do maliwan takedown on mayhem 4 and my friend was like dude dont do it but i was lets try. This was when mayhem 4 first came out so we got destroyed but atleast we could see what it was like. I think the idea of the chaos chambers is cool but u think i wanna grind to 35 with 6 different characters? After slogging through the story 5 more times??
I love the game. Love it much more than I did BL3, especially if you're talking about just the launch. My main issue with the game right now is that the only end game content is chaos chamber. Now, I actually really like the chaos chamber and I think it's a great piece of endgame content, HOWEVER it is the ONLY endgame content. The DLC's they've released have pretty much made me put the game on hold. I would have loved some story DLC. I would have loved the DLC's to add some raid bosses or other endgame modes or content just to break up the monotony of the chaos chamber. IF for season pass 2 (assuming there is one) they release the regular 4 story DLC's with some other endgame modes, I will be drawn back to the game. For now, I can't just grind chaos chamber over and over and over, and these mirror DLC's have left me feeling rather disappointed that they consider these 4 mini-dungeons to be season pass worthy DLC...
If they bring a season pass 2 for "real" content after having paid for the (so far) absolute joke that is the season pass, I'll boycot Gearbox. IF they bring a second one, it should be free or at least 1/2 price for previous owners.
@@Guddo1806 it should be 100% free, this is the only time I'll advocate for something like this bcos the content we're getting now is less content than a single head hunter pack. this game has made me feel things I've never felt about other bad games....
Great points! Another major issue was how frequently nerfs and buffs were coming out. Players barely had any time to get used to the adjustments before another nerf would happen. Also, they over nerfed things (66% on liquid cooling) only to buff it a bit later. But the math isn’t as black and white as they made it seem. If you need something 66% then buff it by 15%, you’re not at ~50%, it’s 15% of the nerfed score so it’s like 6% from what it was. Another point, the number of enemies is…lacking. I find myself having to run around the very large maps to go hunt for enemies to kill vs slaughter star events where it was nonstop enemies. And to this point, if I died, when I respawned, there was a large mob of eyeclops or mimics where I would respawn so I’d basically die again as soon as I respawned. As you said, the game has a ton of potential and I loved the story and whimsical nature of the game. But that endgame grind and not knowing what would be worth keeping or getting rid of, I put the game down for a few days and honestly, haven’t come back. Even with the “dlc 3” drop. Hell, I may go back to bl3 cuz at least there I was having more fun. Edit: anecdotally, I think the loot luck system is bs. I have double the loot luck of my friends that I play with and I seem to get the worst drops somehow. Yeah, rng but, it can’t be that big a swing right?
A friend and I played this together. We did the money dupe to max out the backpacks and all that about midway through just to make life easier. We maxed out chaos chamber. He doesn’t even want to 100% the achievements. I did it because I’m stupid and you can speedrun the DLCs. All that being said, this game has no real replayability. I don’t want to try a new class. Hell, the class idea became stupid as soon as you could redo it. Just let me redo everything at that point to test out all the combinations. That might actually make me want to play (not really, but ya know). As for nerfing weapons and such, balancing is important, but it delays the inevitable. As soon as people figure out what to change or look for, they are going to do that, which is fine if there is crap to do, but there ain’t crap to do.
I just bought the game and have not reached endgame so I'm still loving it, but to me the pacing with npcs and dialogue seams extremely slow. Spending countless minutes watching npcs walk and talk while I punch the air is killing me. I wish I could go through my inventory while they talk but in single player it pause the game -_-
As someone who hasn't purchased the game yet, here are my reasons why: I feel like it isn't worth my time from what I've heard and seeing people like you and joltzdude returning to bl3 or bl2 for more playthroughs kind of enforces this. BL3 has also just become free on epic allowing me to do a playthrough with all of my friends who haven't purchased the game before and lets me have fun and gives me an excuse to play more borderlands Wonderlands is also a full priced $60 game but only has 40 main levels? This seems a little bit extreme and less flexibility in builds means less creativity with skill points and more reliance on weapons. Wonderlands chaos chamber also sounds a lot like Diablo's rifts which I found to be a ton of fun mainly because of the leaderboard and how you could see each piece of armor exponentially increasing your damage and seeing how different armor pieces synergized together. Wonderlands has this exact same aspect but with borderlands elements which I feel can be fun, but in Diablo it was a very long grind for your god build. This may be my weakest argument but I feel like a Diablo fps isn't what I want for a new borderlands game. The biggest reason I never played true vault hunter mode in TPS was because of the loot being unfun to find without the community patch and legendaries only felt accessible at endgame. BL3 has the opposite problem where legendaries are accessible at all points of the game which makes normal mode feel effortless unless you are doing an allegiance. BL2 did legendaries the best by making them farmable if you wanted them but not making them appear out of nowhere every 100 kills. Wonderlands does have some very interesting class styles which is one of the reasons I want to play it, but the lack of skill points makes me feel limited. Maybe if they added a tvhm system I would start to consider it. Dedicated drops need a massive rework from everything I have seen. BL3 does dedicated drops well except for the fact that there are simply too many legendaries to go around. Overall Wonderlands does seem like a fun game, but $60 for what looks like a mix between Assault on Dragon keep, Diablo, and Borderlands 3 doesn't appeal to me right now. If the game was $30 I would absolutely purchase it, $60 should be able to get me all of the future DLC and the base game. Both BL3 and BL2 have an insane quantity of content to go through that even 300 hours of BL3 hasn't gotten me through and like 500 hours of BL2. The handsome collection is almost always $15 and BL3 is literally free right now. Why would I pay $60 to play a game that has less than half of the content from both of these games.
Diablo rifts were Way better than the Chaos Chambers. Excellent comparison though. I wish the chaos chambers the Diablo rift mob density. Holy cow that would be amazing.
Well, because those games were released years ago? On the initial release, B2 and B3 were shallow games, with much less content than Wonderlands right now. Wait 1-2 years and you will get your 30$ sale Wonderlands with all DLC.
I loved tiny tinas wonderland chaos chamber is a fun idea and concept chaos mode is a bit overwhelming classes are fun and the story bosses are good the dragon lord is awesome
I really liked this game. It has a great premise, great voice acting, funny dialogue, creative ways to incorporate guns into the fantasy setting..... but just doesnt feel great. IDK how else to explain it, the crossbow weapons are cool but they just dont FEEL like youre blasting away your enemies. I played a ridiculous amount of BL3 and thought wonderlands would be the same, but after getting through the main game I just couldnt bring myself to reroll another character. I start one get through the absurdly long tutorial phase and then stopped. Dont know what it is but it just doesnt have that same fun factor as the other BL games and I cant explain why, especially since the fantasy theme gives them so much to work with.
I feel like I have to give up too much of my base class in order to multiclass. I would be happy if they just increased the level cap. Even just 3-4 points.
Just got recommended this, and the non dedicated drops absolutely is killing my motivation to farm, along with the frankly dumb scaling that they have. The +1803% health and +200% damage that the enemies get means that only certain builds are going to make it to that point, while not having decent % dedicated loot drop locations means that RNGeebus can _absolutely_ screw someone over. Throw in that some enchantments for gear are significantly rarer and it makes some builds just not achievable.
You hit it right on the head in your video snd joltz covered the rest in his comment. I love borderlands, it's my favorite game franchise and it's sad to see how it is being handled.
True and ultimate vault hunter mode would have REALLY helped this game, I made this same statement on TONS of pre-launch videos. It’s as much a staple of the franchise as the bazillion guns in them.
Honestly I like Wonderlands only inbetween the other previous titles. Like sometimes when I want to change the setting. Otherwis,I love the dedicated farming,Mayhem levels and Takedowns. Don't really dig the Chaos chamber type of farming.
You know that when they make a new game plus for wonderlands, they should give it the BL TPS treatment and make it like a retelling of the story, and they could introduce dialogue skipping as well. They should also give the game a season pass 2 like they did with BL3 after all the content for the season pass come out and make actual fully fledged DLC’s.
I've really struggled to understand and put to words why I haven't played as much BL3 or Wonderlands as much as I played BL2 back in the day. The closest I've come to an answer is just saying that times have changed around what people expect from games in the last decade or so and other games are just doing more, and better. Maybe Borderlands was just ahead of its time, and now it's falling behind on the times as its competition has been getting more and more fierce. I don't really want to do Chaos Chambers to get gear to help me clear Chaos Chambers faster, until I get the best gear for the time and then they just end up releasing a new level cap which invalidates all my time up to that point. But Borderlands 2 did this back in the day and I played the CRAP out of it. Which is why I say I think Borderlands was ahead of its time. Nowadays it isn't so impressive, when we have so many live service games that have pushed games like what Borderlands used to be, forward. With all of this said, I don't want a live service Borderlands riddled with things like FOMO and microtransactions as we have too many now to keep up with. But I think the series needs to move forward somehow, maybe live service is the next logical step.
one thing people always forget about in these games is that there needs to be a story worth playing through. bl2's got the job done (its better characters and better humour doing most of the work imo), with most missions never being a slog to get through. meanwhile bl3 and wonderlands are painful to rerun bc the story elements only get worse and worse every time you play it. combined with the lackluster content and bizarre design decisions, and you have a game that's not fun to play
It almost feels like with the way the chaos chambers, and the shrine piece levels were designed, that this is the framework for a live service type game. I think we all just funded gearbox's liiiivvveee seeeerrvice (said in James Stephanie Sterlings voice) with this little side project.
@@nutsuloid1887 Frankly I disagree about bl2's sidequests "never being a slog". My friend and I haven't played in forever because we literally have to do sidequests to get back on par with the story, and I am unable to get interested in like 8 quests of "Go here, do mobbing, now go do mobbing here, and now come back". Sure, they're faster than the sidequests of 3 and Wonderlands, but they're still boring.
@@eddiemate to be fair when i was talking about the missions i meant the main story of bl2, and i also tried to make the distinction that only MOST missions arent a slog. not all of them are great but there are many more good ones than in these newer games imo
I liked the game well enough, i played through the once but it didn't draw me in enough to go back keep replaying it like BL2 and BL3. The Character classes seemed lacking, the enemies were somewhat dull and more annoying than anything. Some of the bosses were great though.
Remember when a borderlands DLC meant hours of fun quests and tons of new Areas to explore? Now its just a row of boring arena levels... this was definitely the last time i buy a season pass from gearbox!
Is till believe all the features of this game work well if they weren't such big portions like if chaos was more like Digistruct peak, a little harder but faster to get through and more of an actual test of build rather than a slog that sudden gets hard around chaos 60 I thought loot luck was a cool concept but after playing 3 characters and seeing how they never fixed or rebalanced drops instead trying to rebalance loot luck it just makes me sad to see all the system work well if none of them were as focused on as they were: if loot luck was more of a pity drop system or had less baring it would work better, if they had the chaos chamber shorter and instead focused on dlc content it may have worked better if they rebalanced the loot tiers and made it similar to overlevel or mayhem it might have felt better (with a worse balance though)(or maybe leave it as is and just rebalanced drop rates) it just seemed they focused on the wrong systems or the wrong parts of said systems I don't hate wonderlands I even still play unmodded sometimes but there was just too much missed potential to not feel a little depressed by it
man it's kinda weird, i feel like bl2's loot system was a sort of sweet spot. Legendaries felt earned when farming for them and a really nice surprise when you weren't. It wasnt perfect, but it worked the best imo. In bl3, named enemies were basically pissing legendaries, and in wonderlands, even with max loot luck, they were too hard to come by. Not to mention some of the runs up to the bosses was part of the fun. I remember farming Captain Flynt and learning 2 grenade jumps to make the farm so much faster. Shit like that was satisfying. Now it's "here we spawned you right next to the boss so you can just save quit over and over and over and over etc." I get that its a QOL thing but i feel like it takes away from the farming experience. idk this comment will get too long if i write out all my thoughts on this.
The constant nerfs are my big issue. Hate having to fear possibly starting new builds because the nerf anvil gets dropped. Otherwise, agreed, this game has potential. It lacks replayability, though.
@@Dracattack That's another thing, the legendaries in this game have no punch. The fact that someone can have a build that utilizes purples better than legendaries is so painful.
You'd think you'd learn after BL3 came out and immediately nerfed grenades useless. Then dropped DLC's with new overpowered weapons and as soon as they sold enough of the DLCs immediately nerfed the new weapons. I just think the franchise is getting stale as a whole.
Honestly after ripping me off and alot of other gamers with this season pass I'm not paying for Season pass #2 after this. If others want to purchase it that's their decision but I'm not rewarding this ill treatment.
The loot is the biggest problem for me with wonderlands. I finish borderlands 3 and jumoed right in to wonderlands. At first i was having fun because the main campaing is fun, but i barely got any loot tjat was interesting. For a borderlands game thats awful. I think if i have made a melee characters it would be better, cause i got a lot of different melee weapons... but this is a GUN game. The lack of guns drop and variety is what killed for me.
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It's honestly needs it's own content to be a escape from borderlands I love the game but I wish it was a little more fantasy then a copy paste of the tiny tinas dlc I wish the dlc where more impact full of the fantasy we wanted over more chaos chamber runs I love the chaos chamber but it needs more of a borderlands influence to it
Its ok KSix you can say it it FUCKING SUCK we wont be mad dude lol
I feel like they should have dropped hyperion and kept maliwan in the game, Maliwan has the more fantastical weapons
I don't know, I think the problem isn't Wonderlads, this is a problem with Borderlands 3 as a whole. This game never stuck with me. Gameplay wise It's great, but ultimatelly that's all the praise I can give It, the entire thing feels HOLLOW.
The story was merely a placeholder, new characters are not insteresting and the old ones are portrayed in weird and frustrating ways, or are killed altogether, and finally, the EPIC deal right at the start made me completly sick.
I can still go back to Borderlands 2 and the Pre-Sequel and replay them with the same joy as the first time, but I couldn't pass the first run of Borderlands 3. Maybe It's just me, but overall BL3 was a huge letdown that I will never recover from.
The side missions that are based on other video games (like the Ditcher) aren't fun and wacky like they used to be and it feels like they were written with actual hate towards those games
Replayability is everything. I had my 300+ hours of fun on the game, but the burnout has hit me harder than any other Borderlands game. Right now we have no NG+ and pushing through the story is a slog with the mountains of dialogue and pacing. 80% of a playthrough is required mobbing to proceed forward. Take that required mobbing out and you have a very short game. Right now maps are empty, DLCs lacks content, and there isn't much to do in the game. Sure there are dedicated farms, but most of them are horribly bad and I feel as that is their way of pushing players into the chaos chamber. When you limit farming to the chaos chamber and barf bunny loot farming, it gets stale fast. It's the TPS grinder problem all over again. Also, I don't find that there is many synergies to be had in the multiclass system. It feels like most builds rely heavily on one character/interaction and the other character is just there for the ride. The game has potential, but I think history is just repeating itself. The damage seems done and I don't know if many people will be coming back to the game anytime soon. It makes me sad to see the current state of the Borderlands franchise. At this rate I think I'm just gonna wait for Borderlands 4 and hope the game is done right.
Agreed on all points
yes this, the game is way too short is a huge problem, i just feel so unfufilled when there was SOOOO much potential
Man the orginal borderlands way more better game than tiny tina's jokeslands
I agree, although I had a lot of fun questing through the story for the first few times. The maps are empty compared to what they could have but the level design in this game feels better then the previous. I think if they fix dedicated drops, allow named enemies to respawn to diversify loot pools, add a NG+, and make real DLCs with real story and environment, we may have the best game in the series.
I agree with this as well, i just think the first 3 points are the same for borderlands 3.
This game(and bl3) really need a dialogue skip option. The reason bl2 didnt was because almost all dialogue happened WHILE the gameplay. Now a fourth of the gameplay is sitting listening to dialogue, which is fine the first time, but hurts replayability so much
Also bl2 dialogue was awesome lol. Never want to skip it
Realist comment I've seen today
@@WiscoHandyman It was annoying as shit
@@eduardogarciamejia5033 🤓🤓
BL3 was the first game in which I actually wanted to skip those parts. They were very decent and pretty interesting before
Another thing wrong. 98% of the weapons do no damage. You have to be specd into a certain build to do any damage. Takes the fun out knowing you're limited to 3 weapons
This is the same problem Borderlands 2 has in its endgame. Feels like they’re repeating history…
@@brawler5760 really? But people always say that bl2 is the best in the franchise, they never mention about weapon limitation at end game, is it really that bad? And how bad it is compare to bl3 ?
@@jabermogwai5996 Well I’ll just repeat something K6 said in the past. There’re only 15 legendaries in BL2 that are endgame viable. In BL3, there’re over 100 thanks to Gearbox buffing many of them. Also those people are just blowing smoke.
@@jabermogwai5996 I played much, much more 3 than 2. I feel like most of the 2 defenders are just trying to be edgy. 3 has much better gameplay across the board, endgame content that isn't just difficult for the sake of difficulty, and mayhem can kind of be a slog but it's nothing compared to OP levels. Farming was brutal for most weapons in 2, and of course your build options were super limited.
@@moon_wizard1250 same ! I finished playing 3 and then went back to 2. I hated the the progression, loot, and overall balance in bl2. Made me miss bl3 and how rewarding the progression and loot when defeating difficult bosses. Not to mention the dlcs is 3 really brought the game to life
- no slaughter domes
- no raid bosses
- no hunt missions
- no ng+
- no resetting story missions
- no endgame (literally only chaos chamber)
- very little farmable bosses, doesn't matter anyway because farming is horrible outside CC 👍
- no expanded story from dlc
Feel free to list anything else I'm missing
Some enchants are very close to impossible to get such as sporesplosion
When this game came out I complained about the chaos chambers as endgame and got dogpiled on Reddit about how great the chaos chambers were, at which point I thought my time with the series must just be over then and deleted the game
- some weapons can't be enchanted
- armor and accessories can't be enchanted
- legendaries suck so bad I get pissed when my lost loot is filled with them instead of epics and rares
- classes only have one skill tree
- no level 72
- the most lag of any multiplayer game i've played so far
- the skullsmasher brand weapons act as if they are firing, but no projectiles come out because of lag
- no option to mail weapons and gear to other people.
- too many weapons that are semi-auto only without the damage being worth it.
- snipers and cannons too weak.
Overpriced, this game is more akin to $20-$30 indy game experience then a AAA title experience.
- no Steam release
Wonderlands has the opportunity to give us LITERALLY anything the devs want to create due to no lore restraints yet we get the lamest content of ANY of the Borderlands series. Absolutely sad.
Exactly for example the main story was basically Tina’s campaign of Bunkers and Badasses, the dlc should have been the campaigns of other characters like Frette or Valentine. Or even Roland.
@@CentauriTT now I'm curious to see how brick would do as a DM....
"Hunting gear" is such a massive thing in Borderlands. I want to be able to go to a specific area or boss and kill it 100 times for the one item with the correct rolls. Being able to know that "this boss WILL drop my item with enought time" is so important for keeping me in the game.
I agree with this 100%. Loot bunnies were cool at first, but quickly became boring and a huge pain in the ass.
@@Viper-sx5zv imo loot bunnies were the right idea, keep the system of them but drop their pools, or maybe have it contain only worlds drops or half dedicated drops, add bosses back to the map and seperate their drop rates from loot luck and then add a NG+
Exactly they basically just threw all weapon into world drops I mean cmon wtf are they doing...
@F Colored ppl I'm glad that you instead is able to find joy in insulting other people you've never meet online. Good for you.
Also for those truly great guns it's all about farming 3 or 4 of them and figuring out what the best parts combination is.
Can't tell you how many times I've killed Savage Lee, had probably 100+ Unkempt Harolds. But it was all worth it when you finally get a perfect Double Penetrating version.
2 Problems
1, I hate the lot luck system, having it for world drops is fine, but leave dedicated drops alone,
2, I bought the season pass under the assumption that we would be getting at least a couple campaign dlcs and not just things similar to the chaos trial.
Obviously their is still time for them to deliver on this but at the moment I'm disappointed
I agree, I payed the same price for my bl3 + season pass, as I did for the wonderlands + season pass, I was expecting the same amount of content. I continue to get disappointed with the dlcs, in comparison to the bl3 dlcs.
I'm hoping they're actually working on real DLC. It's still early and we didn't get a full dlc for BL3 for three months and were only two months into its life.
@@SteamedPickles we're 2 months in and 2 dlcs down I don't think this game Is gonna last a year life span unless they do a season 2 season pass and make it free
Guess you ignored the detailed info about dlc content they released before any had coming out
Why did you expect campaign DLC? The season pass description was very clear that there was no story DLC.
You said it perfectly. This game has so much potential, so much creativity went into making this game, the classes and more. Yet, the DLC feels like some of the shallowest content offerings we have received, especially when compared with the DLC content prior games have had. I feel like there is a miscommunication in what Gearbox intended for the post launch plans of this game vs what the community thought it would be and people are pissed. The lack of good dedicated farms + the frequent nerfs are hurting players motivation to play because what’s the point of going out and farming something for hours if it is going to get nerfed next week. Bl3 had tons of nerfs but came out the other side an amazing game and I trust gearbox’s balancing decisions, but with a more challenging game, enemy damage scaling with each chaos level, good items being hard to come by, the nerfs hurt even more and the guns just don’t feel very good without interactions behind them.
you put it perfectly into words
. glad you’re acknowledging how hurt the community is over the state of wonderlands, its depressing. less and less build diversity, stale end game after awhile due to only chaos chamber and short timegated “dlcs” my intrest evaporated after c35. its jarring because the lead up to that was honestly so magical.
@Rhyleigh Mackenzie You are a strange one. Do you blame all your problems on other people? You are blaming content creators for discovering and publicising interactions that were programmed into the game. So maybe blame the devs instead.
@@flourichs4030 agree with you 100 my man's doing his thing and this guy is a hater cuz why? Because he made a RUclips video on the liquid cooling so now he ruined not only this game, but the previous one as well.. like do you hear yourself?
@@flourichs4030 tbh I thought he was just trolling. If he's serious I feel bad for him lol
@@teddysaures9540 he’s serious. Comments hate on just about all my videos lol
It pains me to see a developer with such a loving and dedicated audience completely miss what that audience wants from their games
They already did that with 3, with their abysmall story writing and character development. Personally I could give 2 shits about the loot, a hard games nice, but I want to know if they fixed their writing and world
@@randyslobojan5763 the writing was never good though lol.
@@emptyjumplow I'll give you never that intratrcate. Plot was simple in the first and second game. But the world rules were pretty solid, the humor was slightly morbid, and characters had pretty reasonable desighns and backstory. They knew their lore and how things ought to have been laid out knowing pandora was once a vast ocean now a dessert hellhole abonded by all but the most stubborn homesteaders and ruthless bandits.
BL3 is an amazing game. People hate on the story BUT did you know that more players by percentage beat BL3’s story than did BL2? So they must have done something right. Also the overall gameplay is miles ahead of BL2. Build variety and gear variety is better. Endgame is better. It’s just that damn story people point to.
Borderlands games have NEVER had amazing stories. Amazing VILLAINS? Yes. But story wise BL games are pretty average.
@@Ki11ersix Agreed on all points but BL2 had raid bosses while BL3 had eden 6
It's lack of replayability in my opinion lack of New game Plus is what did it for me that's pretty much what made borderlands so replayable it's just being able to start story over with all your gear and get better gear and then do it again and improve upon that gear and ect and wonderland has a pretty good story it'd be fun to play through story again without having to start from scratch every time
YES!
This exactly.
I agree with you
Why ng+ when under 5% used it on bl3. No one playd it. And now everyone want it🙄
@@kennethsjvold9212 no one needed to on bl3 because mayhem was the same on both
Where to start :
Every patch they release it fix one thing and break two or more
The DLC's or the PLC are the worst in borderlands series and they are not worth for the season pass
The endgame is nice but it getting boring need more enemies appears in the chamber they low
The UI and split screen are broken
The splitscreen was the main cause for me not to buy the game. I did not buy it when it launched because I had no spare time to play anyway. I than played it with a mate during a visit to him. The UI on splitscreen was completly bananas, leaving critical information out. Any intention to buy the game myself where buried that day. And as it seems, I were absolutly right to do so...
@@johannesbragelmann6629 if you don’t have the time for the endgame grind anyways it’s a great game to play through once. You should probably stay away from the dlcs tho. Splitscreen UI and UI in general was addressed, dunno how much of it was fixed.
The most infuriating feeling is that they could make so many crazy, good story DLCs for this game and there is just silence.
I love Wonderlands. I couldn’t stop until i played through it. I don’t like chaos chambers. I did them once or twice, then done. Created a new character.
I really want decent story DLCs. 😥
if we don’t get a second play through of the story and at least one good story DLC i’ll be genuinely sad. this is my favorite game in the series gameplay wise. it just deserves the love and the content. i feel like a second play through is just needed in these games, id like to have another shot at getting chaos enhanced quest rewards
Pretty sure all 4 dlc gonna be mirrors of bs, maybe hope for free year 2 content :/
I came to the comments section just to say that a second playthrough, after being all maxed out and ready to take on anything, has always been real fun for me with borderlands and I’m sad that we don’t get that with wonderlands. You said it greatly
@@Ded4spaghettes - It's only been 3 months since this game is released! They probably will let us do a second playthrough maxed out eventually.
I have definitely “dipped out”. I had fun my first time through the campaign and for a couple hours in the chaos chambers but it wore off real fast. The fact that I can just multiclass to see every class in action makes it hard to justify another playthrough. No ng+. The base campaign is extremely short and the story is really forgettable. There are way too few legendaries and a lot of the dnd theme seems to involve duct taping a crossbow to a normal gun and making it harder to aim. The dlc is a joke. I’m done. I regret buying this game. It had so much potential to move borderlands forward but instead it feels like BL 3.5. It probably should have been a dlc expansion to borderlands 3 rather than a full priced title. If I paid 40$ for this, I’d be happy with my purchase. I paid 100$ for the game and season pass and feel extremely ripped off.
Same.
Me too man, it’s kinda bullshit
@@isaacbaker8784 my fault for buying it day one. I put 400+ hours into borderlands 3, had max level, fully geared characters of all four classes, experimented with making my own builds, etc. I lost interest when the mayhem overhaul, but I played a lot of 1,2 and 3. Wonderlands DND theme plus the the chaos chambers sounded amazing on paper. But there are fewer enemy types, way fewer guns, a much shorter campaign, and it just generally feels like a potentially great DLC that they inflated into a spin-off with minimal effort so they could charge full price. Learned my lesson. Never preorder, never buy day one.
@@johnwrath3612 could you imagine if this was the final dlc in bl3? It would’ve been amazing to play with the old vault hunters but as a stand-alone with shallow nameless characters it’s so forgettable
@@johnwrath3612 can't blame you, I've trusted gearbox since borderlands 2 but clearly the only dev I can trust is from soft
When this game came out, I actually declared it my favorite borderlands. As I progressed, I realized how incredibly flawed it was, and I'm just completely burned out and super disappointed
This is kinda how it is for me too. Loved it for a month straight. But disappointed by the lack of dedicated drop farms across the maps and the extremely repetitive nature of the chaos chamber
You obviously haven't played 2 in awhile then if you thought this was better. You're like the guy that hasn't gotten laid in awhile and falls in love with the first whale that touches him.
You’re disappointed…probably because its just a cash grab.
This comment right here is exactly what happened to me. I LOVED playing the tiny Tina’s dlc back in the day on 2, it was my favorite dlc, so when this game came out, I was SOOOOOO excited for them to bring more of that energy to light and it became lackluster to me after the story was finished. Don’t get me wrong I loved the story, that was the good part. But the fact that there is damn near no replay ability, combined with the jokes they released as “paid DLC” is terrible to me and I’ve loved almost the entire rest of the series. When I pay 100$ basically for the big boy edition that’s supposed to come with the dlcs, I’m expecting good thought out dlc content. Not a couple of levels that feel like a redone version of the chaos chamber. That’s disappointing to me. It’s just a grind over and over and no good background to it.
@@pedropedro1 the fuck?
I think it's the dlcs. Gearbox should have done typical Borderlands dlcs not these small bite sized content drops.
This isn't even bite sized. This is like a grain of uncooked rice.
if anything it feels smaller than the event content drops which are free
The season pass for this game is what pissed me off the most. We are getting what they promised but I don't think they mentioned how criminally short the mirrors were going to be. Feels like a cash grab
For me, I always felt lost when it came to the Skill Tree system. I never knew what I could or wanted to plan towards. Being limited to one skill tree for half the game and then only seeing another skill tree after you've chosen your second class meant I always felt like I was shooting in the dark. I finished the game a few weeks back and I couldn't tell you what any of the skill trees do, including the two I picked.
Exactly! It never felt like the skill trees had any OOMPH to them. And I never felt like I could pick a direction I wanted them to go in.
My Wonderlands experience: I maxed one character. Got all my shrines and bonuses unlocked. Started doing chaos chambers. Got a few chaos levels completed before realizing I was bored to tears and had no desire to repeat chaos chambers over and over (to what end?). Not sure if GBX expected a different outcome than that but that was my experience.
Fashionably late to your comment but this was also my experience as well. Chaos Chambers as the sole end game was a bore. Then they gave us the DLC which was just chaos chambers with some prettier makeup. Farming chambers just to farm them some more was never going to work. In the mainline borderlands games, farming for good builds helped progress into harder new game plus modes, which then led to farming for raid bosses. There was a sense of progression there. No such progression exists in Wonderlands - it’s just repeating the same random chambers endlessly.
Lmfao here I am chaos 100 sadley thier isn't more helping others get to chaos 100 and having an absolute fucking blast haven't even. Touched the others
Not being able to go full melee/keep my melee weapon out at all times was a huge letdown for me. The lack of mob density made the endgame feel really boring. Would like to see them double the pack size and decrease the hp or something.
The melee thing is big for me too
You just need to join me bruddas. I've unequipped all of my guns lol
@@mercenary-433 based
"One of the fun things in Borderlands games is always hunting for your gear"
It's a LOOTER shooter. Getting the good loot (gear) is one of the MAIN reasons for playing after the initial story.
Given how they're seemingly hellbent on making Chaos Chambers the post game content, they could at least expand on that with a few new variations of it. They could add a boss-rush mode, a Circle of Slaughter mode, a Survival mode, a 100-room challenge, a "Digistruct Peak" equivalent, etc. But you can only blast through low mob density areas so many times before it gets stale. Hell, even just adding a "True" switch to the Chaos Chamber that applies the recently added Co-Op changes to your run would be something.
I do agree with the dedicated drops part- frankly, it's hard to get myself in the mood to grind gear when I know that more than likely, I'll be hitting up the Chaos Chambers. I honestly like the DLC/PLC- more PLC 2 then 1 obviously, because it feels like we're getting more of story possibilities in it. That said, I didn't expect something huge as far as stories go- but something more akin to a one-shot in DnD, which is still a bit of story- and some fair loot.
The multiclass system is kinda nice, except you only really get access to 2 skill trees at the same time. This inevitably pushes you in a very narrow direction. Sure you could respec multiple times, but most people (myself included) make a nice combination and stick with it. What this eventually ends up with is 15-21 different classes (with huge overlap) each with only 2 skill trees. This usually means that most of the class combinations kinda feel the same.
After completing the story and all sidequests, you probably near max level (think lvl 35). Add some boss runs and the DLC in there and by the time you have really seen everything you hit max level and made a build.
At this point the only thing that drives the pptimisation/grind part of the game is a sense of accomplishment by beating the chaos chambers at max difficulty.
In previous games you had 2-3 runs through the game, each progressively harder until you hit max level (69-80), this means there's an external push to get better and farm. Sure after playthrough 3 this gets stale real fast, but it's better in my opinion than just shooting in the same arenas.
Furthermore at max level it was quite possible to hit the capstones of 2 different skill trees and speck into a 3rd. Giving a better feeling of costumisation.
At the end of the day the game felt short to me. I completed the main game, did some chaos runs, played with some friends. And then I got bored of it.
The low amount of points is really a huge thing.
If we had another 10-15 levels i think we'd be in a much better place, but without those levels, you often end up with one primary tree, and another that exists solely to use some of the early stat boosts.
It doesnt feel like you're playing a combo of 2 classes, it feels like you're playing with one class/tree and a bit of spice.
They should make a DLC where Tina is running a one-shot where the characters fight bandits and robots on a desert planet :P
Borderlands 3 and Borderlands The Pre Sequel Are so underrated
My biggest complaint is so much content is tied to the random encounter/ dungeon model. Which is just a shorter slaughter shaft. I would have wanted more of those to be explored locations.
oh yeah, that was hella boring
I enjoyed playing it, but overall it felt like a larger DLC instead of a full game. This is the first Borderlands game I don't see myself getting the season pass for or even running the story with all classes for a main. While I haven't completely given up on it yet, I feel the burnout coming.
The story was so bad holy **** I’m annoyed that I put 273h into this waste
Yea this is the first DLC where I haven't played through on another character, I just dont see the point
@@lilzeddy it took you 273H to realize the story was bad?
@@lilzeddy How did you even put 273 hours into the game? I have 35.4 hours on the game and literally did everything there is
i’m definitely with you. the maliwan takedown was what i did to test out janky builds in bl3 and i loved it. every inch of the takedown was fun and replayable, but the chaos chamber is just room after room after boring-ass room and it’s not the same. on top of the maliwan takedown, we had proving grounds, hemo, and the seer as raid bosses to fight, but there’s yet to be a wonderlands raid boss (unless DLC bosses count but the DLCs are trainwrecks anyway)
Well there is the raid bosses chaos trails but those are up to luck to get
wonderlands has 4 raid bosses. none of them are particularly special or worth it cause they're loot isn't dedicated
One of my favorite moments of the story
Mr Torgue after 9 years finally got to blow up the ocean!
I feel like by this point, a lot of this is stuff Gearbox should've learned by now. Give them a year to fix things because they pulled it around with BL2 and BL3 is not a valid excuse because they seem to be making the same mistakes over and over again. Non-farmable bosses was a mistake made in The Pre-Sequel, and people hated it. Nerf after nerf after nerf is demoralizing. Sometimes it's ok to let some OP stuff stick around while you take care of what NEEDS to be taken care of. Fix the stuff that isn't working as intended, bring the under performing stuff up to your baseline THEN bring over performing stuff down. The balance patches need to ironically be a balance of this.
Well to be fair, every time they nerf something, they introduce new weapons for us to try out and/or buff other weapons that are already in the game. I think the reason why they nerf stuff is so that we don't play with the same gear all the time, but to give other gear a chance.
Wonderlands won't last a year the player base is allready dipping
Lmao if they keep doing the same thing over and over why y’all keep buying? Why y’all keep playin? Keep giving it positive attention? You feel? Y’all if you want a game to improve shove that shit down the devs throat. I’m tired of the “I don’t like this game, this game has clear issues, yet I’m always going to buy the next expansion, I’m going to look at all the content, I’m going to continue playing the game. And even though the cycle has been the same for years Imma continue to keep getting the game.” This has been an issue w all the borderlands games. No they shouldn’t be doing this every time, but y’all shouldn’t be falling for it every time either. Glad I didn’t spend 60 on this
Same things gonna happen what happened with bl3. Everyone going to complain, call it shit. Say they’re going back to bl2 and the game won’t last. Then the updates dlc and patches fix the game over time, and the the cycle resets.
@@Black2overlord I haven't bought Wonderlands. I didn't buy Borderlands 3 until over a year after its release.
@@Axetwin smart
The barf bunnies killed it for me. Trying to get a class mod for 5 or 6 hours and not seeing it drop a single time really made me question how much fun I'd have with the game trying to do that for every single slot for gear. Yeah I could download a Character from someone else with all the loot, but then what am I gonna play for after that?
Yeah…I’ve played all other Borderland games with every single Vaulthunter, played all DLCs, picked my favorite Vaulthunter for every Borderlands game and played them again, picked my second favorite Vaulthunter, played them again, played them again to try builds I see K6, Joltz and others recommend. I ‘ve done difficult farms, except the 94 sham…haha…and tackled raid bosses with my minimal skills and always felt good beating these bosses. I jumped back on to play BL3 after beating this game cause I love the feel of BL3. Wonderlands…I have played once and don’t feel like playing it again. I loved the concept and the play through, but it did not make want to keep playing it, I just didn’t care for it and didn’t pull me the way the Borderland Franchise has in the past. Many of the things you said are pretty much the reasons I haven’t touched the game again. I hope they fix it, until then I’m replaying BL1, BL2, TPS, Tales and BL3…
Thanks I’ve got the others but I forgot about tales! Been loving BL1 recently 🤙🏽
I'm new to these games. I'm loving bl3 right now (although still learning). Is bl2 worth playing after bl3?
@@YoBrand15 Hell yes…haha…BL2 is amazing. The story is the best, it’s what wins over people. BL3 just feels great to play and I love it regardless of it’s janky story, and with BL2 the game play is good but will feel like a downgrade in that sense but the story and other things in the game like the DLCs are fantastic. I guess it just depends on what you prefer, but it is definitely a must. I mean I say play all of them, because I think they all have something to offer since they all gave something to BL3 and the lore. Happy hunting Vault Hunter.
@@jaimemoralacreacion yeah the gameplay is the most important thing to me. I love the combat in bl3 so far but I need to look up how to really use the skill trees (seems like you should only pick one tree since you can only use one of the three abilities at a time). The story isn't that important to me, but I might still give bl2 a try. I feel late to the party lol. Thanks!
@@YoBrand15 Yeah, gameplay is most def better in BL3…haha…and yeah you can use only one skill at a time but switch them during gameplay. For example when I play Flak, I like running the Gamma Burst skill for mobbing and for bosses I switch to a Fade Away style. So feel free to place points in any tree and play around with them, since they all synergize fairly well. Not until end game and Mayhem levels does it really matter where you place points for builds.
Stopped playing after the really disappointing first PLC. No tied loot to bosses key point. Loot luck felt arbitrary at best. It’s a real shame.
I played BL2 for well over 500 hours with multiple play throughs. BL3 about 500 hours too. Wonderlands? All done inside 120 and I simply cannot see myself ever coming back. Chaos Chambers is just not fun.
For me it was waaaaaaayyyy too easy (I started on hard) which I assumed would be corrected by NG+ but that didn't happen and chaos chamber just felt like a repetitive, mundane chore so I could loot the best versions of weapons just to reach the realization there's nothing fun to use them on.
when replaying BL 3 the most painful part is the agonizing, tedious and painfully annoying dialoges, i found out that u can skip a lot of them by safe and quit but for missions where u have to follow someone u always have to endure it by walking and basically doing nothing...horrible gamedesign and thats not only for the borderlands franchise, i think for example world of warcraft did the whole quest system perfect in 2004 or the dark souls games by skipping the text if u want to
1. New Game +
2. No More Stingy Loot , Increase All Drop Rates by 30% Globally. The Loot Drop Rate for No Tier Weapons(no C/V/P/A variant) should lower to 60% at Chaos 35 and continue to lower if more levels introduced. This will allow for the drop rate of Primordials and Volatiles to feel much better because the loot pool at the bottom is interfering with the Loot at the top. A Primordial drop rate of 1% is abysmal.
3. Allow rerolls on armor mods. let players reroll a class benefit on an armor mod. If I get a one class armor mod, i should be able to roll for a second class and keep the benefits of the first.
Or change the second class on a 2 class armor mod to benefit my second class. I have countless armor mods that have 2 classes but only benefit 1 of my current classes and i hate it.
4. Add bounties to the game! The bounty boards already exist in the game on every map, according to Ki11er Six 70% of enemies aren’t being used. Plaster these enemies on all the bounty boards in game. Bounties in Brighthoof are procedurally generated endlessly, but force you to go to the maps in story mode to complete them. Bounties on map are static and unchanging satisfying the loot hounds who want to boss farm. You finish the bounty, you get the boss, you run it back.
5. Allow vending machines to sell Legendary loot. Its actually insane that they never show up in the vending machines. The offline mode no longer gives legendary vending machines.
There’s more I could say but I’ll save it for a time when i believe they are listening. If you read this far, the part I hope you retain the most is #4. If gearbox can get it done, the players might return.
He said 70 enemies but still, bounties sound really good. Thats a lot of missing content they could package back in the game.
New Game + with quests that reward the highest tier version of the loot would be awesome. I also think their should be legendary variants of epic weapons.
this would fix the lack of legendary hydra, guns with wings, and pixie guns in the game but also add more diversity in legendary loot pool with other weapons.
Definitely hit some of the big spots there. But I will definitely add in the fact that the Chaos Chambers are extremely difficult to keep motivated with. I can't even find the strength to get to level 35 on my main character. I want to love the game, but the endgame content just isn't there for me.
They've shown they can put enchants on everything in wonderlands, so i wish they would go back and patch borderlands 3 to be able to anoint mission items and add anoints to non anointed gear with the Earl reroll.
My personal reason for going back to BL3 was that I never powerful. With enemies constantly leveling with me it felt like I had no breathing room to experiment with a fun build or to stay with a weapon I liked which might be a little underleveled. In the other borderlands games I was able to feel powerful without having to optimize every skill point while still being challenged if I choose not to grind.
I think you nailed tbh. My biggest issue is the loot luck. Its like the chicken and egg situation.
To get good loot, get through the chaos chambers. But you have to get through the chaos chambers. But because you dont have great weapons you get stuck, builds help but not to the max, you need both.
On top of that, repeat runs are too time consuming with little reward. I dropped out playing TTW for this reason. Went back to BL2 and 3.
Now Im trying TTW and after 1 weekend of immense frustration and no decent loot. Im shelving it. Im not even going to pkay the PLC 3 Im that annoyed.
Like you, I think TTW has the potential for greatness.
Thinking back BL1 had balancing issues and maps were annoying in places (thinking T Bone junction). But unless they improve that loot luck or get rid of it and make farming in the maps not just chaos chambers, then Im not not likely to return
To be fair, you have the exact same problem in all the borderlands games that I've played and it never made sense to me. You need good loot to farm in a way that is fun, but you only get good loot by farming.
So by the time you're properly equipped to farm.. There is no purpose in farming.
@@KaylaJoyGunn I think the issue is amplified in TTW. In BL2 you can farm at a low leve the best pistol in the game - Unkempt Harold., which can help you enjoy the game for a fair few levels. Same with the Bee shield
The dlcs and loot luck killed Wonderlands. Borderlands 3 spoiled us with legendaries dropping all the time and the dlcs that were good and took time to complete. Not only did the dlcs take longer they had a story to tell they also added new legendaries that were viable and level cap increases. Borderlands 3 is far from balanced but it gave us a glimmer of hope that future Borderlands games would be better than their predecessors. So far Wonderlands has failed to live up to what I hoped it could be. I hope the rest of the dlcs are better but I have my doubts. Maybe this was just an experiment by Gearbox to attempt to find balance for Borderlands 4 🤔
I don't understand why they struggle so hard when finding balance
@@Sodamachine62 they hit it out of the park with borderlands 2 imo, at least with the loot aspect, all legendary drops are easily farmable with dedicated drops and you have some cool ways of farming for pearls/seraph. Nowadays BL2 would see dozens of nerfs and would make some very awesome weapons weak af. Can you imagine sandhawk+bee on Wonderlands? Or the Pimpernel, or the Harold or any of the other strong Bl2 guns?
Borderlands 3 isn't in a bad spot now, so it's sad to see them go through another ugly duckling phase with a game of theres. You'd think they would have learned from where borderlands 3 did well.
Besides the kreig dlc (honestly my least favorite dlc out of 2 and 3) I agree. Not only that but they’re too lazy to even add new enemy types for Pete’s sake
@@sharebear421 krieg dlc should have been delayed, its short, has no actual side-quests and the bosses are massive bullet-sponges
You hit all the notes K6. Perfectly said. I wanted to like Wonderlands SO BAD. But I made the decision to uninstall it for the time being until it either gets an overhaul or Gearbox can really show they want to put in the time for it. I need the hard drive space for other things for the time being but this has been more than a disappointment, it’s like a long time and close friend letting you down.
This was definitely a stop gap or filler game lol. The real deal was always Borderlands 4 (The Last Borderlands according to leaks), and it'll probably be next gen only on UE5.
@@Toni-ic7ki Unless its better than BL2, Its gonna be another skipped content like with Wonderlands.
Borderlands 3 still need love too, it's still a new game, I'm never leaving 3
it has Pre Sequel syndrome nonfarmable bosses (without read only farming), BL3 syndrome too much loot handed to you everything explodes with every rarity of item, Some enemies are too chunky for the enemy types around them messes up the flow of fights youll kill everything within seconds then youll have one guy that you chip at his hp there are more but im lazy
And its own syndrome. Imagine playing BL3 on mayhem 10 or 11 and getting only mayhem 3 gear almost constantly. Thats what wonderlands does with its chaotic/volatile/primordial/ascended gear
Edit: almost forgot the fact there's ZERO endgame besides boring chambers
Chaos chambers need exclusive gear. Dedicated drops need fixing. The combination of both means you have reason to farm bosses and also still run CC’s. I feel GB’s need to want force you into CC’s as end game meant they leant too far into it at the cost of a more balanced option. Was an all or nothing gamble.
I agree with your first point, but it feels like it kind of does. Chaos Chamber is currently the best world drop farm. Are you saying that some of the world drops should be dedicated drops from the Barf Bunnies?
Some people are complaining about lack of content after 100 - 200 hours. News flash, the game has been out for 2 months. There has never been a BL title to release more than 200 hours of content within the first 2 months. Maybe, ya know, play other games or take some time.. outside for a little while.
For me, the dedicated drops are everything. Since I don't get a lot of time to play this game, I'm always playing catch up. I got to chaos lvl 9 and then boom, they increased it to lvl 35. I rely on the best weapons to make the game easier because I want to enjoy the time I have with it and not stress so much about beating regular bosses. I remember farming Knuckle Dragger for the hornet every time I started a new character playthrough because it made the game easier, not easy. I farmed Droll for 2 days to get a better gluttony, 4 hours each day, and only got one gluttony and it was only marginally better than the one I already had. That sucks.
Yeah, I'm stuck on CC15, I can melt the DL to 1% but he goes invulnerable and Bernadette instakills me with nothing to pull me out of ffyl
@@georgegood5646 it sucks because u either have to rely on broken builds with near perfect equipment to beat these bosses or u get stuck in one phase of a boss and die. I can't beat the Dragon Lord after that dragon comes out because the dragon takes so much damage. I farmed LeChance for 4-5 hrs Sunday and got 2 Swordsplosions, 1 chaotic but not multiplier and just a regular one with no multiplier. 😩
The overworld just feels empty to me. I miss vehicles or just exploration. A lot of the weapons don’t feel unique to me either. The ones that are unique are either extremely strong or unusable. The chaos chamber is a very boring form of progressing. It gets very dry after the first few runs. Even when you throw in the final bosses it still feels very underwhelming.
This would've been an excellent opportunity for them to add mounts in place of vehicles.
Game dev perspective: Most of the issues boil down to gearbox is inexperienced at live service games. I’m not a borderlands fan, but some former coworkers were hyped to play Tina and I picked it up and am still playing in a social context, but no longer grinding for gear etc. Essentially when my last buddy gets through the main story I’ll be done.
1) dlcs don’t have a reason to exist. In a live service game you add new systems and reasons for people to monetize somehow. In this case buying the dlc. It has to serve a useful function to players. The current dlcs provide a worse alternative to a system that is already in the game, the chaos chamber,p. If the dlc allowed you to grind enchant rerolls quicker for instance they would ease some of the rng frustration and have a useful function for players. It’s either that or add good stories, and using high profile voice talent means the budget for producing dlcs goes nuts and finding a time when your talents’ schedules line up is almost impossible.
2) The rng is abusive. Look I get it, their whole deal is essentially unlimited amounts of variety of gear. But they designed so much suboptimal crap that’s just vendor fodder (partially to hide problem 3, partially to hide the fact that if they give you good gear you’ll run out of stuff to do quickly) that the odds of giving you something worthwhile is essentially non existent. I spent 200k crystals on rings over a weekend and didn’t get anything worth keeping. And my gear is crap. Similarly I’ve rerolled enchants 80 times on swordsplosioms and not gotten the result I’ve wanted. Note it’s on a mediocre swordsplosion, because getting a good one requires even more rng and then the wrong enchant rolls anyways. Relying on bad rng to hide your problems is not what a good live service team does. You use dlc or product updates to fix them.
3) the gear isn’t transformative. Getting a new piece of gear doesn’t open up completely new play styles. It’s all incremental . You’ll find a better gun, but nothing that say transforms how a skill functions completely creating new opportunities to explore new strategies and builds. The depth is lacking, so you hide it by keeping people from getting the gear you want. If you expect people to play for 1-200 hours, no big deal. If you want someone to play for years then that’s a no go.
Could they fix these issues in a bunch more dlc releases? Sure. But that requires new marketing campaigns to reattract players, bringing someone back is much more expensive than keeping them in the first place. All this takes different skills and a different mind set than gearbox has hired over the years. They’re good at what they do, I was pretty impressed by Tina as a single play through experience, but the holes start to show when their success with a game outstrips their planning.
Also Covid and the difficulties in keeping staff over the last couple years have made things harder, possibly impacting what they were able to accomplish and causing last minute changes in plans multiple times. It’s unfortunate, but good live service producers are adept in addressing these sorts of things and prioritizing both short and long term needs. What it looks like to me is they burnt everything to deliver a solid game, and when it did well they had no gas left in the tank to get the next drop out.
"Also Covid and the difficulties in keeping staff over the last couple years have made things harder, possibly impacting what they were able to accomplish and causing last minute changes in plans multiple times. It’s unfortunate, but good live service producers are adept in addressing these sorts of things and prioritizing both short and long term needs. What it looks like to me is they burnt everything to deliver a solid game, and when it did well they had no gas left in the tank to get the next drop out."
Gearbox lost 54 employees from 2013-19. A lot of talent left the company prior to BL3. Still havnt found anyone to fill the boots.
They dropped action skill augments too and slam effects except for one that's pretty lackluster in my opinion coming as a quest reward. I think the melee weapons are cool but should probably be locked to each class so that when you choose from two classes you can equip either of their weapons in the melee slot. That way the cool melee developments, like being able to chuck the clawbringer hammer and then recall it right back, could be augments in the skill trees. It would be so cool to have the stabbomancer weapon be a dagger and have an augment somewhere down the skill tree that turns it into throwing knives, or one that lets the spore warden bow fire an explosive arrow or bola etc. The gun/grenade/class mod/shield/artifact/action skill setup has nice depth that might get watered down too much by including melee weapons and by separating artifacts into three pieces
I miss Vaulthunter mode playthroughs. The Chaos Chambers are a nice addition, but now all I do is grind through chambers just to grind more chambers.
I liked more than any borderlands game actually, this game does everything in correct way that borderlands made wrong
exactly why I'm taking a break, I love the franchise and have experienced each game in their entirety + dlc, this game felt amazing coming in, you get insane loot that shreds and makes bosses boring even when nerfed, the dlcs were just. short.
dice were ruined for playing with friends now I can't help friends, I haven't even played the new dlc I'm just gonna be bored after a run.
I'm always hopeful but it ends up being the downfall,
thats why I started taking after kratos.
"keep your expectations low boy, and you will never be disappointed" and that's how I've been since and it's very very helpful bcs I mean.. look around.
have a good day if you read all this garbage guys.
still a great game and feels good, but I don't think I'm gonna be coming back to it if it's just gonna be more of this sadly. other games will catch my attention.
@@polysemy_ You can still help friends find the dice, they just have to be the hosts of your game.
@@guftders ah okay, that's only one minor thing and I only played with a friend once anyway.
@@polysemy_ Yeah, other than that, the DLC has been absolute miss for me.
@@guftders 100% I feel bad for chum everytime I kill him it's sad to see this kinda effort in an amazing franchise, and the game most if not everyone thought was gonna be the best most unique borderlands. it's still great but if all the dlcs are like this I mean. idk.
Yeah I had a lot of fun with this game But there is definitely a lack of replayability. That and then the crazy nerfs is what made me dip out. I told myself I would come back when the DLC dropped and... yeah. I'll definitely come back after some time passes but until then I'm just gonna go play some more BL2 lol.
I am playing Borderlands 2 again and really enjoying it! Miss slide and mantle, not slow buggy inventory.
I wish BL2 was just Normal Mode and TVHM. I'd play it still.
for me, it's the lack of size for how massive the potential is
Here's why I like TTW:
I tried very hard in my youth to get into Borderlands... but with TTW, it was easy. The pacing was good. The game felt great. The comedy actually got a good chuckle out of me here and there.
It's a great game on sale. Would I pay full price? Probably not. But if you're new to Borderlands or wanna get into D&D, it's a great bridge between the two.
The whole loot luck thing sounds to me like they were trying to make this more akin to say, diablo. You gear up with magic find and go hunting for gear.... but it doesn't work for a looter shooter. No matter how they reskin it. That's just my opinion, though. Haven't played it yet, so this is just my guess.
I miss Borderlands 2. 😔
Go play it?
I think I'm going to start another playthrough on Borderlands 2. In my opinion it was the most fun out of the series.
@@jaredaadland9692 True that.
You're acting like you can't play it still lmao,it's the only Borderlands that has lasted years on my console because of the replayability
I do feel the "PLC"'s were underwhelming and was extremely surprised how quickly my brother and I finished them. However, I have hope that this was intentional on Gearbox's end and look forward to an amazing campaign style PCL coming soon.
The loot system did have it's pros in my opinion. I liked how I was able to get some amazing legendary/purples early on in the chaos chamber without having to fight some tough bosses when I wasn't really geared up yet. But, now being at max chaos level, it's really inefficient when it comes to farming for a particular gear. This annoyed my brother and I as we grinded for hours not getting the gear we wanted.
If wonderlands had the same replay system as all the other games and story dlc it’d be the best game in the borderlands series. They just turned the replay into a “post game” that’s similar to tons of games that have no where near the charm is a waste of a lot of great things. My first play through was a 10/10 but I’ve never been so disappointed by an endgame.
This is my experience and sentiment EXACTLY
This is why I've held of playing for now, I did the same with bl3, I waited a year, this ment my first playthrough was a lot more balanced and I had more dlc to enjoy
I will say my biggest problem with wonderlands is it seems they are actively trying to hedge all the weapons against the super deep game breaker build types of players.
This unfortunately has left players like myself who in the last few years has become a very casual player and without having atleast a handful of your standard dedicated farms spaced out that you can easily find, I'm left to plug along dying endlessly. I understand the thought of the loot luck vs dedicated but it leaves your more casual loyal fans to suffer never having above a slightly above average blue weapon.
Fellow casual welcome, they keep forgetting about us, the ones that can’t or rather won’t spend 300 hours of their time on a single game like this one lol
As someone who never got into late game borderlands where you farm for hours on specific bosses to perfect your build to go into OP levels im not gonna comment on Chaos chambers. I’ve owned this game for about a month and still have not finished it. I like the characters, the maps are gorgeous yet empty. But something about it just feels stale already. I feel like I have to take breaks to do something else because of the weird progression. I’ve been playing since borderlands 1 in 2009 and I’ve never had this much issue playing through a game before. Even launch BL3 I finished within a week. I think it’s just how mundane and Samey a lot of nonlegendaries feel and even some legendaries don’t feel that legendary.
To me early changes definitely ostracized the causal player including the spellzker nerf, which to this day sal’s pimperhab is in bl2. Chaos chambers are a grind beyond op levels. Hard core players love them, but I got one character through and I’m done. Premium gear should drop for all chaos levels giving players a true option to climb the levels. Even if they make bosses respawnable, some like Grissom is at the end of a 3rd chamber. Generally speaking people don’t want to slog through killing a bunch of enemies for a 90% failure rate.
I must admit, I agree. I just got the game about a week ago and beat the whole story and side quest and loved it but I don’t see myself doing this for all characters like I did with BDL3 plus there’s just so many random items that I feel it would take ages to get a perfect build. Don’t think I’ll be buying the season pass :/
I miss the old school grinding that bl2 had. It was fun to farm for a day to collect a new legendary. Now a days they drop like candy from a pinata. Add on all the hackers dropping every gun in the game in multi-player matches and well it just took out the fun for me.
Two things: the overwhelming majority of players don’t have DAYS to spend looking for ONE drop. BL2 does a bad job of valuing players time investment.
Secondly, NEVER play in open lobbies. It was bad on BL2 as well. Modded black gear. Gear that would brick your character, etc.
BL3 has PLENTY of hard grinds for us hardcore players. That’s the whole point of my Quest for God Roll videos
As someone who hasn't played this yet, I got lost quickly after he started explaining the drop rate and luck system, it sounds so complex and confusing in this game.
Also, reading other comments it seems that this game is a one time experience kind of the thing, as in you go to the end, beat it, play the dlcs and you're done. Tbh, I don't think I can nor want to make the commitment to play this one for long, so I kind of take that as a good thing.
Well, once you read any drop and luck system in a borderlands game, it’s bonkers. Just to clear that up, it’s way better then you think since you can highly abuse spawns and drops in any game (which they want you to do btw)
Another flaw I’m finding, not enough classes. Due to the fact that you can dual class your options are way more limited so you don’t feel like you can do tons upon tons of builds like in borderlands 2 and especially in borderlands 3.
Sadly true.
Kardashian analogy was spot on, because without the brand new shine (or photoshoping) it doesn't look as good once you get your hands on it.
Personally my problem is that I don't have much time to play this game so I went for the best gear like killersix and the community recommended/used and everytime I catch up there is a nerf or change.
It's frustrating to farm new stuff with the little time I had for this game.
Listened to the end, as you asked, and you hit most everything I would have said. Might have added a bit to a couple of things, but here's what I will add.
1: T for teen rating: This immediately tells people "This isn't your parents' Borderlands". And it isn't. Most everything the writers put in is a joke of some sort, and none of them hit. I think the only time I even chuckled in this game, was Mr. Torgue blowing up the ocean, *finally* and the fish hit the screen. That was decently good. Most everything else was just...no.
2: Loot system: This is where I add to what you said. A looter shooter needs.......LOOT. Not an impasse system that forces you to go out of your way, possibly spending extra HOURS, searching for dice that allows you to MAYBE get some loot. I think every game developer should have learned from Anthem about that at this point. Also, purple *epic* rarity guns should NEVER be better than legendaries...EVER.
3: Chaos system: 20 was fine. They could have made a few DLC, added new guns and spells, added a class or two, then 6 to 9 months in, maybe bumped chaos to 25 or 30. Nothing drastic, just something to keep the interest in grinding high. Going to 35 after a month was atrocious.
4: Tina herself: I LOVE Tina in BL2. Heck, I loved her in BL3. Same nuttiness, just now a young adult. This Tina, I don't like. She feels more like everyone's mom than her own little explosives loving, chocolate chip cookie and crumpet devouring little psychopath. Maybe that's what Gearbox was aiming for? If so, no bueno.
And then here's the controversial disagreement with one thing you said. This is coming from a 45 year old man who started gaming at the age of 4 with the Atari 2600, so yes, been gaming a while.
Bad games start bad, mediocre games start below average. Good games start mediocre, great games start good, and Legendary games need no help. Generally anything from Nintendo 64 back, you knew what you got. Bad games were bad, good games were good, then you had your FF VIIs, your Chrono Triggers, and Chrono Cross for that matter. You had your Super Metroids and Metroid Primes. You had Super Mario 64, StarFox 64, GoldenEye, the list of legendaries goes on and on.
In this age, developers think they can give us sh**, *See Anthem, Fallout 76, and Battlefield 2042 for prime examples* have us buy "Season Passes" for the garbage they give us, then maybe over the course of a year or so, add a bunch of patches that make the game decent to good. *See No Man's Sky for the perfect example of that.*
So does Wonderlands have potential? Yes, but that potential should have been given at launch. As you said, BL2 and 3 didn't start out great, but they turned into gems. I still say BL2 is better than 3, we'll agree to disagree on that K6, but Wonderlands shouldn't need 6-12 months of fixes before it becomes good. Most people will be gone by then, and not return.
I'll end it there. Your additional thoughts our good comment section, if you have any.
I remember in borderlands 3 me and buddies had the option to do maliwan takedown on mayhem 4 and my friend was like dude dont do it but i was lets try. This was when mayhem 4 first came out so we got destroyed but atleast we could see what it was like. I think the idea of the chaos chambers is cool but u think i wanna grind to 35 with 6 different characters? After slogging through the story 5 more times??
I love the game. Love it much more than I did BL3, especially if you're talking about just the launch. My main issue with the game right now is that the only end game content is chaos chamber. Now, I actually really like the chaos chamber and I think it's a great piece of endgame content, HOWEVER it is the ONLY endgame content. The DLC's they've released have pretty much made me put the game on hold. I would have loved some story DLC. I would have loved the DLC's to add some raid bosses or other endgame modes or content just to break up the monotony of the chaos chamber.
IF for season pass 2 (assuming there is one) they release the regular 4 story DLC's with some other endgame modes, I will be drawn back to the game. For now, I can't just grind chaos chamber over and over and over, and these mirror DLC's have left me feeling rather disappointed that they consider these 4 mini-dungeons to be season pass worthy DLC...
If they bring a season pass 2 for "real" content after having paid for the (so far) absolute joke that is the season pass, I'll boycot Gearbox. IF they bring a second one, it should be free or at least 1/2 price for previous owners.
@@Guddo1806 it should be 100% free, this is the only time I'll advocate for something like this bcos the content we're getting now is less content than a single head hunter pack. this game has made me feel things I've never felt about other bad games....
Great points! Another major issue was how frequently nerfs and buffs were coming out. Players barely had any time to get used to the adjustments before another nerf would happen. Also, they over nerfed things (66% on liquid cooling) only to buff it a bit later. But the math isn’t as black and white as they made it seem. If you need something 66% then buff it by 15%, you’re not at ~50%, it’s 15% of the nerfed score so it’s like 6% from what it was.
Another point, the number of enemies is…lacking. I find myself having to run around the very large maps to go hunt for enemies to kill vs slaughter star events where it was nonstop enemies. And to this point, if I died, when I respawned, there was a large mob of eyeclops or mimics where I would respawn so I’d basically die again as soon as I respawned.
As you said, the game has a ton of potential and I loved the story and whimsical nature of the game. But that endgame grind and not knowing what would be worth keeping or getting rid of, I put the game down for a few days and honestly, haven’t come back. Even with the “dlc 3” drop. Hell, I may go back to bl3 cuz at least there I was having more fun.
Edit: anecdotally, I think the loot luck system is bs. I have double the loot luck of my friends that I play with and I seem to get the worst drops somehow. Yeah, rng but, it can’t be that big a swing right?
A friend and I played this together. We did the money dupe to max out the backpacks and all that about midway through just to make life easier. We maxed out chaos chamber. He doesn’t even want to 100% the achievements. I did it because I’m stupid and you can speedrun the DLCs.
All that being said, this game has no real replayability. I don’t want to try a new class. Hell, the class idea became stupid as soon as you could redo it. Just let me redo everything at that point to test out all the combinations. That might actually make me want to play (not really, but ya know).
As for nerfing weapons and such, balancing is important, but it delays the inevitable. As soon as people figure out what to change or look for, they are going to do that, which is fine if there is crap to do, but there ain’t crap to do.
I just bought the game and have not reached endgame so I'm still loving it, but to me the pacing with npcs and dialogue seams extremely slow. Spending countless minutes watching npcs walk and talk while I punch the air is killing me. I wish I could go through my inventory while they talk but in single player it pause the game -_-
As someone who hasn't purchased the game yet, here are my reasons why:
I feel like it isn't worth my time from what I've heard and seeing people like you and joltzdude returning to bl3 or bl2 for more playthroughs kind of enforces this.
BL3 has also just become free on epic allowing me to do a playthrough with all of my friends who haven't purchased the game before and lets me have fun and gives me an excuse to play more borderlands
Wonderlands is also a full priced $60 game but only has 40 main levels? This seems a little bit extreme and less flexibility in builds means less creativity with skill points and more reliance on weapons.
Wonderlands chaos chamber also sounds a lot like Diablo's rifts which I found to be a ton of fun mainly because of the leaderboard and how you could see each piece of armor exponentially increasing your damage and seeing how different armor pieces synergized together. Wonderlands has this exact same aspect but with borderlands elements which I feel can be fun, but in Diablo it was a very long grind for your god build. This may be my weakest argument but I feel like a Diablo fps isn't what I want for a new borderlands game. The biggest reason I never played true vault hunter mode in TPS was because of the loot being unfun to find without the community patch and legendaries only felt accessible at endgame. BL3 has the opposite problem where legendaries are accessible at all points of the game which makes normal mode feel effortless unless you are doing an allegiance. BL2 did legendaries the best by making them farmable if you wanted them but not making them appear out of nowhere every 100 kills.
Wonderlands does have some very interesting class styles which is one of the reasons I want to play it, but the lack of skill points makes me feel limited. Maybe if they added a tvhm system I would start to consider it.
Dedicated drops need a massive rework from everything I have seen. BL3 does dedicated drops well except for the fact that there are simply too many legendaries to go around.
Overall Wonderlands does seem like a fun game, but $60 for what looks like a mix between Assault on Dragon keep, Diablo, and Borderlands 3 doesn't appeal to me right now. If the game was $30 I would absolutely purchase it, $60 should be able to get me all of the future DLC and the base game. Both BL3 and BL2 have an insane quantity of content to go through that even 300 hours of BL3 hasn't gotten me through and like 500 hours of BL2. The handsome collection is almost always $15 and BL3 is literally free right now. Why would I pay $60 to play a game that has less than half of the content from both of these games.
Diablo rifts were Way better than the Chaos Chambers. Excellent comparison though. I wish the chaos chambers the Diablo rift mob density. Holy cow that would be amazing.
Well, because those games were released years ago? On the initial release, B2 and B3 were shallow games, with much less content than Wonderlands right now. Wait 1-2 years and you will get your 30$ sale Wonderlands with all DLC.
I loved tiny tinas wonderland chaos chamber is a fun idea and concept chaos mode is a bit overwhelming classes are fun and the story bosses are good the dragon lord is awesome
I really liked this game. It has a great premise, great voice acting, funny dialogue, creative ways to incorporate guns into the fantasy setting..... but just doesnt feel great. IDK how else to explain it, the crossbow weapons are cool but they just dont FEEL like youre blasting away your enemies. I played a ridiculous amount of BL3 and thought wonderlands would be the same, but after getting through the main game I just couldnt bring myself to reroll another character. I start one get through the absurdly long tutorial phase and then stopped. Dont know what it is but it just doesnt have that same fun factor as the other BL games and I cant explain why, especially since the fantasy theme gives them so much to work with.
💯 firing crossbows is completely unsatisfying. It feels like you're shooting a spit ball at someone.
@@jps.7103 This describes it perfectly
I feel like I have to give up too much of my base class in order to multiclass. I would be happy if they just increased the level cap. Even just 3-4 points.
Just got recommended this, and the non dedicated drops absolutely is killing my motivation to farm, along with the frankly dumb scaling that they have.
The +1803% health and +200% damage that the enemies get means that only certain builds are going to make it to that point, while not having decent % dedicated loot drop locations means that RNGeebus can _absolutely_ screw someone over. Throw in that some enchantments for gear are significantly rarer and it makes some builds just not achievable.
You hit it right on the head in your video snd joltz covered the rest in his comment. I love borderlands, it's my favorite game franchise and it's sad to see how it is being handled.
Randy is what's wrong. Poor management has lead to these issues. They just don't care anymore. Triple aaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy games are dropping off a cliff
True and ultimate vault hunter mode would have REALLY helped this game, I made this same statement on TONS of pre-launch videos. It’s as much a staple of the franchise as the bazillion guns in them.
TVHM yeah, but I don’t want anymore UVHMs
Honestly I like Wonderlands only inbetween the other previous titles. Like sometimes when I want to change the setting. Otherwis,I love the dedicated farming,Mayhem levels and Takedowns. Don't really dig the Chaos chamber type of farming.
one simple explanation to why this is the state of this game:
its nothing more than a cash grab on a desperate community
You know that when they make a new game plus for wonderlands, they should give it the BL TPS treatment and make it like a retelling of the story, and they could introduce dialogue skipping as well. They should also give the game a season pass 2 like they did with BL3 after all the content for the season pass come out and make actual fully fledged DLC’s.
I've really struggled to understand and put to words why I haven't played as much BL3 or Wonderlands as much as I played BL2 back in the day. The closest I've come to an answer is just saying that times have changed around what people expect from games in the last decade or so and other games are just doing more, and better. Maybe Borderlands was just ahead of its time, and now it's falling behind on the times as its competition has been getting more and more fierce. I don't really want to do Chaos Chambers to get gear to help me clear Chaos Chambers faster, until I get the best gear for the time and then they just end up releasing a new level cap which invalidates all my time up to that point. But Borderlands 2 did this back in the day and I played the CRAP out of it. Which is why I say I think Borderlands was ahead of its time. Nowadays it isn't so impressive, when we have so many live service games that have pushed games like what Borderlands used to be, forward. With all of this said, I don't want a live service Borderlands riddled with things like FOMO and microtransactions as we have too many now to keep up with. But I think the series needs to move forward somehow, maybe live service is the next logical step.
one thing people always forget about in these games is that there needs to be a story worth playing through. bl2's got the job done (its better characters and better humour doing most of the work imo), with most missions never being a slog to get through. meanwhile bl3 and wonderlands are painful to rerun bc the story elements only get worse and worse every time you play it. combined with the lackluster content and bizarre design decisions, and you have a game that's not fun to play
It almost feels like with the way the chaos chambers, and the shrine piece levels were designed, that this is the framework for a live service type game.
I think we all just funded gearbox's liiiivvveee seeeerrvice (said in James Stephanie Sterlings voice) with this little side project.
@@nutsuloid1887 Frankly I disagree about bl2's sidequests "never being a slog". My friend and I haven't played in forever because we literally have to do sidequests to get back on par with the story, and I am unable to get interested in like 8 quests of "Go here, do mobbing, now go do mobbing here, and now come back". Sure, they're faster than the sidequests of 3 and Wonderlands, but they're still boring.
@@eddiemate to be fair when i was talking about the missions i meant the main story of bl2, and i also tried to make the distinction that only MOST missions arent a slog. not all of them are great but there are many more good ones than in these newer games imo
I liked the game well enough, i played through the once but it didn't draw me in enough to go back keep replaying it like BL2 and BL3. The Character classes seemed lacking, the enemies were somewhat dull and more annoying than anything. Some of the bosses were great though.
Remember when a borderlands DLC meant hours of fun quests and tons of new Areas to explore? Now its just a row of boring arena levels... this was definitely the last time i buy a season pass from gearbox!
I personaly liked the quests the most. Therefore I was pretty disappointed that the DLC (or PLC) did not add any real story.
Is till believe all the features of this game work well if they weren't such big portions
like if chaos was more like Digistruct peak, a little harder but faster to get through and more of an actual test of build rather than a slog that sudden gets hard around chaos 60
I thought loot luck was a cool concept but after playing 3 characters and seeing how they never fixed or rebalanced drops instead trying to rebalance loot luck it just makes me sad to see
all the system work well if none of them were as focused on as they were:
if loot luck was more of a pity drop system or had less baring it would work better,
if they had the chaos chamber shorter and instead focused on dlc content it may have worked better
if they rebalanced the loot tiers and made it similar to overlevel or mayhem it might have felt better (with a worse balance though)(or maybe leave it as is and just rebalanced drop rates)
it just seemed they focused on the wrong systems or the wrong parts of said systems
I don't hate wonderlands I even still play unmodded sometimes but there was just too much missed potential to not feel a little depressed by it
man it's kinda weird, i feel like bl2's loot system was a sort of sweet spot. Legendaries felt earned when farming for them and a really nice surprise when you weren't. It wasnt perfect, but it worked the best imo. In bl3, named enemies were basically pissing legendaries, and in wonderlands, even with max loot luck, they were too hard to come by. Not to mention some of the runs up to the bosses was part of the fun. I remember farming Captain Flynt and learning 2 grenade jumps to make the farm so much faster. Shit like that was satisfying. Now it's "here we spawned you right next to the boss so you can just save quit over and over and over and over etc." I get that its a QOL thing but i feel like it takes away from the farming experience. idk this comment will get too long if i write out all my thoughts on this.
The problem with the BL2 loot system is you earn those legendary drops but then they all suck at endgame
The constant nerfs are my big issue. Hate having to fear possibly starting new builds because the nerf anvil gets dropped. Otherwise, agreed, this game has potential. It lacks replayability, though.
The liquid cooling nerf is absurd when Im grabbing same level purple pistols that now do twice as much damage
@@Dracattack That's another thing, the legendaries in this game have no punch. The fact that someone can have a build that utilizes purples better than legendaries is so painful.
You'd think you'd learn after BL3 came out and immediately nerfed grenades useless. Then dropped DLC's with new overpowered weapons and as soon as they sold enough of the DLCs immediately nerfed the new weapons. I just think the franchise is getting stale as a whole.
@@mickpratt8327 Honestly don't remember much about BL3. BL2 is where all my memories are.
Honestly after ripping me off and alot of other gamers with this season pass I'm not paying for Season pass #2 after this. If others want to purchase it that's their decision but I'm not rewarding this ill treatment.
The loot is the biggest problem for me with wonderlands. I finish borderlands 3 and jumoed right in to wonderlands. At first i was having fun because the main campaing is fun, but i barely got any loot tjat was interesting. For a borderlands game thats awful. I think if i have made a melee characters it would be better, cause i got a lot of different melee weapons... but this is a GUN game. The lack of guns drop and variety is what killed for me.
It needs a 2nd story playthrough.
I finished the game. Collected the gear. Did chaos chamber. And was hoping for a second run at story