I have deer hunted with a 30-06 for 45 years. But if I was starting to deer hunt today, the 7mm-08 would be my first choice. It's almost the perfect caliber for whitetail deer.
I'll say this, the 7mm-08 is one heckuva deer cartridge. I have a 30-06 and for years I swore by it, but in recent years I've been introduced to the 7mm-08 and I'm amazed at how good of a caliber it is. It provides a perfect combination of Ballistic coefficients, flat trajectory, bullet selection, low recoil and ideal down range power.
Agreed. if only Remington had the marketing genius of Hornady, just about everyone would have their dad's ole 7mm-08 in the gun case. And not to drop a grenade and run, but while we are on 7mm's, the .280 Remington ever so slightly beats out the .270 Winchester, but again, Remington just didn't have the marketing prowess.
I'm a little late to the party here. I have a 7mm-08 and a 6.5X55 and really like both. Great calibers. Thank you for taking the time to produce this informative video.
I just love the 270w. I've used it all African game from Springbok in the Kalahari to massive Kudu in the bushveld in the Limpopo valley. One shot kills had been the norm...the 270 is just very versatile and reliable.
If nothing else , thanks for pointing out how close in velocity my 7-08 in a 140 flavor is to that of the venerable 270. Hadn't considered comparing those two against one another.
Great video, i was afraid i maybe should have gotten the 6.5 after hearing but this shows me my 7mm08 is no noticeable difference in the 2 rifles. but i will have a 6.5 creedmoor as i have 5 grandsons that will soon be needing low recoil rifles. 3 boys are proficient with .22cal's now. thanks for great, very informative video
myself a victim of the magnum craze of the last century, i'm glad to see sensible cartridges like the 7-08 finally really getting the spotlight. recoil manageable, meat destruction minimal. i hope the 600 yd hunting club has limited membership. hunting is not war where merely wounding the enemy is prescribed.
100% my friend, my 300 Win Mag really doesn't get out the safe much anymore... my 7mm-08 just about lives in my truck. Ive shot deer with both, and I can honestly say I'd rather hit a deer with the 7mm-08, so much less destruction, and more edible deer. Ive never shot a deer past 200yrds, here in the north east it'd be extremely rare. Every local shop says they sell more 30-30 before deer season than almost anything.
I was also the last of the magnums, who has not been, I keep most of my shots within 300 meters, however I have been able to hunt with the 270, at 440 meters, it is the longest shot I have successfully fired, and it was the maximum distance after much reflection from my team and the Kiss or easy principle, after having injured 2 or 3 deer with bad experience.
@@ashmerch2558 I live in the Northeast also. My longest shot ever was 55 paces. My shortest shot was in the neighborhood of 8 feet. And I missed haha. Carbines with open sights is the only way to go in the north woods.
@@ryanehlis426 Not ethical for 95%+ of the hunters under typical conditions,, wind, elevation etc... Go to the range and look at the 1st cold bore shot of the vast majority of shooters at anywhere near this range and its a miss, and the target doesn't ever move during flight. Estimates according to Gov sources claim in some area's 20+% of game is wounded and not recovered and I bet the vast majority of those shots are much less than 600 yards.
All I can say is it's the shooter that makes the gun! It's not the gun that makes the shooter! It doesn"t really matter which one of the three calibers you like. Their all good calibers, and at the end of the day knowing your gun is what counts.
I reload for about 30 different calibers and hunt with many of those, 7mm-08, 270 Win (and WSM) and a 6.5x55 SE (ballistic twin to the Creedmoor) are all among them and I consider all of them to be top tier deer/hog rifles. That said if we were to split hairs the breakdown looks like this. The 7mm-08 is the most pleasant to shoot of the bunch being less overbore than the other two meaning less muzzle blast and recoil is very mild even driving 140gr bullets well above factory speeds (2922fps chrono verified). While I love my 7mm-08 now I was about ready to throw it in the river at first, it took some doing to get it to group, factory ammo and my first attempts to handload shot 4-7" groups at 100 yards, very frustrating. If anyone else encounters this problem try Ramshot Big Game powder it was my magic cure. The 6.5x55 is easily the most accurate of the bunch, 6.5mms are well known for scary nail driving accuracy, mine punches single hole groups at 100 yards with Hornady SSTs and SUB MOA groups with literally everything else, but it has more drop then the other two given it's lower speed (around 2800fps with 140s using RL22). Recoil is VERY light but the muzzle blast is pronounced with my warm handloads behind a short 22" barrel making it seem like more to those around you. The 270 achieves the flattest trajectory of the bunch with hunting weight bullets and at close range has the highest energy, and while they are not as hair splitting accurate as my 6.5 both hold 1/2-3/4" groups at 100 making them more then accurate enough for any hunting, I have yet to find a 270 I could not get some really good accuracy out of very quickly. The recoil on a 270 is significantly more pronounced than the other two taking the 270s out of the "sissy kicker" category in my book, not painful but not exactly fun either, both 270s are 24" barrels so the muzzle blast is not any worse than the 6.5x55 IMHO. All three have performed well for me on deer/hog class game, most drop in their tracks longest tracking job to date was only about 30-40 yards and that was my fault for marginal shot placement, you cannot go wrong with any of the three in my book.
I agree with your preference for the 270 Winchester. Can't believe the guy said, short actions are always better than long actions. Actually, those are standard actions.
I am disabled with arthritis so I have to stick with the "sissy kickers", but I agree that if you are going to hunt elk you would be doing good to have a 270.
Recoil numbers for the 6.5, especially the 140gr is impressive. That's a great deer round. More than enough energy, even at 400 yards with minimal recoil.... That's why it's so popular. Family member uses a 7mm-08 and has taken 3 deer the last 2 years. Using Hornady sst's all have dropped in their tracks. Jello inside. They were only 50yd shots but man it's nice dropping them in their tracks and not ruining meat. Don't think you can go wrong with a 6.5 or 7-08
actually the difference between all three is so minimal, it's not worth writing to the NRA or Congress about. one or the other will not make or break your hunt. hunters need to stop being salesmen.
This has nothing to do with the 6.5cm vs 7mm-08 comparison, but I have taken 7 deer in the last 2 years with a 243, all at right at 125 yards (I know, that isn't that far) and all but one dropped in their tracks and the other one went about 60 yards. I do plan to get a 7mm-08 for next season just to have something different.
If recoil doesn’t bother you the .270 win beats both I don’t understand why folks don’t see that don’t get me wrong I have a 6.5 creedmoor and I love it but it’s in black and white if you are open minded about the whole deal. Now will I carry one over the other? Nope. I’m going to carry which ever one I want but if you look at ballistics and performance the .270win has the advantage
Viscous Shear if it doesn’t blow up;). For bulls selection, 7mm and 30 cal can’t be touched. But my 6.5 does all I need, so having lighter or heavier adds no value to me.
Enjoyed your video. I think the recoil issue is much larger than most people think. I'm a firearms instructor for a long time. And when you see the negative effect of recoil on shooting fundamentals, its pretty serious. Sometimes a flinch develops so bad that its not curable. And then you find that people won't practice with their guns because its just not enjoyable. Science seems to suggest anything above 10 ftlbs on the recoil will be uncomfortable to most people. So, the cartridges here are quite excellent for deer hunting. I advise people to download their rounds when the standard load breaches the 10 ftlbs limit. No loss in performance with ethical hunting distances, and no degradation of shooting fundamentals do to flinching or lack of practice. One of my favorite hunting loads is a downloaded .308 with a 130gr monolithic. 2600 MV, and good to go to about 300yds. Recoil pleasant and all you need to hunt deer and pigs. One last point, gun fit matters. And if a gun fits poorly, the recoil problem is bigger. Larger game, say an Elk, well now we're into a tough spot trying to have adequate power with tolerable recoil. My solution, practice with downloaded rounds, then go full bore on the hunt.
Thanks for the video man, I appreciate it. One thing that might make a good video would be the .308 case comparison. .243 Win, 7mm-08, .308, .338 Fed etc. Would be interesting to see
Having shot all 3 calibres and observed their impact on game I would have to say the .270 is by far the best choice for me from 250 yds on.The 7m 08 is also a fine choice but I think the 6.5 is lacking at what alot of people are making it out to be. The 6.5 is very accurate on target shooting but I don't see any improvement at 300 yds over the 6.5x55 swede in fact I would go for the 6.5x55 over the 6.5 creedmore, but hey that's just me and my experience and having fired a couple hundred rounds in testing.
6.5 Cr is a great round, but hyped up to the moon. A shame how it is being advertised as 'better' by writers who know better, but are just getting paid to hype fake stats,
@@oleboy7615 I'm no expert but pretty sure 6.5 groups tighter for competition shooting. I would lean toward 7mm-08 as the best all round choice here too but if you go 270win you might as well go for like a 7mm rem mag.
I shoot 7mm-08 Dropped deer & Black Bear hell over I Switzerland they kill moose with 7mm-08! All 7mm-08 is, is a necked down .308 that accepts 7mm bullet look it up... has same energy as a 308 but less recoil & shoots flatter then a .308. I've shoot 30-06 but I now use a Ruger American Predator in 7mm-08 a absolute amazing rifle!
For years I used a Number One Ruger in 270WCF here in Alberta .The 270 WCF is very moderate as far as recoil is involved .The 338 with 250 gr. has a whoop to it for sure.
The .270 is just about perfect for all big game. However I also shoot a 7mm08 because I also enjoy it's versatility. Together I use them for every hunting situations!
Not for elk. It has neither the bullet weight or velocity capable of plowing a big bullet through heavy hide and muscle to get to the vitals on angle shots. A good deer gun but UNFIT for elk unless their standing BROADSIDE and are close.
@@twolak1972 I agree, but most hunters just hunt whitetail and most shots are at 300 yards or less, for the average hunter 7mm-08 would be the best choice
I find that there is a threshold of workable recoil, with the 30 06 or 270, I can't take as much liberties as with the 7mm 08 or 6.5. What I mean by that is with off hand shooting, I can hike the 7mm 08 high in my shoulder pocket, so I don't have to drop my head to get a cheek weld, and I can shoot like that all day, with better accuracy, more consistent sight picture and better balance. The 270 is on the border, but the 30 06 is just a little uncomfortable, and I find myself needing to prioritize recoil mitigation in my stance. I do realize others can shoot a 30 06 off hand very well, but I am better with the 7mm 08. The 6.5 is real nice too in that regard. They are all great calibers, thanks for the great video.
There is an old-school rule from a book published around 1920 (found it in a college library when I was a student, couldnt tell you what it was, might have been published by Wheelen) that had a rule of thumb. 14 ft lbs is about the limit for being able to comfortably shoot a long time, for the average person at a stationary target. It was somewhat higher for moving targets (shotguns and clay birds). Seemed to be a good rule of thumb in my experience.
Not a bad commentary, I don't own a 6.5 Creedmore, but I have shot a number of 6.5 x 55's and I currently own an older Sako so chambered. I have hunted with a 7mm-08 back when it was first introduced, I also hunt with a 7 x 57 and I had at one time owned and hunted with over dozen 270's and a bunch more along with 338's 375's and 416 Remingtons. 400 yards in big game hunting is a far-off shot, doable but its a long way out to shoot, Deer Elk Moose or what have you are not paper targets. The 6 5 x 55 and 7mm x 57mm is pretty much a handloaders cartridge. A 270 or 30-06 is pretty much all the recoil most can withstand and still shoot fairly well, I will add my other favorite cartridge and the one I hunt with the most these days the 7mm Remington Mag. I have for a long time called the 6.5 x 55 and you could say the same of the 6.5 Creedmore they are pocket 270's you are not going to be able to tell the difference hunting big game with either one at least not the big game that most of us hunt or will ever hunt, deer size things of the White Tail persuasion. Where it gets interesting is when you start going to Elk Moose, Bison, for most it's a one or two hunts in a lifetime so it's kind of moot. I use to live in Alaska so things are different due to conditions and size of the Game hunted, I shot a 338 most of the time and I did have a 270 as well. Most of the time either would have been fine. Where I live and hunt now, a 30-30 Winchester or a 243 would be more than plenty, heck a 223 in an AR-15 would be fine too and then some, you be surprised on how many of those are used to hunt within Bush Alaska. But it's not so I don't. I still think that you can't go wrong with either a 270 or 30-06 and a good 4x or 6x fixed power sight in good strong mounts like Talley or Warne, Keep it simple. Ditto on the 200-yard Zero. As I have gotten older I don't over think this stuff as I did 50 years ago, now I think about how I am going to cook venison better and how I can improve my sauce making ability, seasons are short so I make up for it in the Kitchen. That was not so when I was young.
Very interesting video indeed, its amazing when you look at the pure values I actually wonder why people have bought the 6.5. The 7-08 seems far more advantageous and efficient (not including the minimal recoil difference). It seems the 6.5 creedmore trend will fade away in time. It also shows why, to recoil tolerant hunters the 270 has stood the test of time. Keep up the great vids.
The 6.5CM and the 7mm-08 are both ideal for a dual purpose rifle that you wish to both hunt deer with and also use for high volume long range target shooting & marksmanship training at the range. Also great for women and children and as a junior training rifle.
I have a 7mm-08 that I shot an antelope at a measured 568 yards. In entered the right ham, blew a 3 inch hole through the heavy ham bone, entered the body cavity, completely penetrated the body cavity, cut two ribs, penetrated the shoulder blade, and stopped 1/2 from exiting the meat, and retained 92% of its weight. I don't need anything better than that.
Thank you for the overview and comparison. I thought it was well done. A couple things you left out was barrel length and weight of the typical rifle for caliber. When you start with new shooters blast and weight typically have a negative impact. Now.., where the bullet hits the target AND having the correct bullet for the job, WITHIN the shooters skill level is all about bringing home the meat. These are the things more important than caliber wars.
This video was a follow on to my other video “the ultimate deer rifle cartridge”. In that video I chose the 270, and made this video in response to comments on the 7mm-08 and 6.5cm. 243 is fine and recoils less than any of these three. I am comfortable with more recoil, so I use a 270.
These are by chance the 3 deer cartridges I use and love. Anyone hating on the 6.5 Creedmoor must be a person who didn't own a cell phone for the first time until 2010 because "you don't need that new fangled stuff!"
Good video. The reason I bought my 7mm-08 was because it matched the performance of my 270 win for hunting purposes with less recoil and was available chambered in lightweight hunting rifles with shorter barrels, better for hunting timber. When the 6.5 CM became popular I bought 2! It is essentially identical performance to my 7mm-08 but much easier to find ammo for 6.5CM in 2018!
I bought a browning xbolt micro midas, which is the nicest rifle I own. In 7mm08. Easiest rifle to carry around hunting I have ever had. Love it. Still like my Ruger M77 in 270, but it is pretty beefy (ie overbuilt) compared to the xbolt.
I love the .270, i have shot many and owned a few. What so many people forget so easily is that you aren’t shooting the box. The numbers on the box mean nothing. And since at minimum 75% of hunters don’t reload, let’s use off the shelf ammo for a reference. The .270 is flat out awesome but the truth is there are a lot of older .270s as well as 7-08 rifles floating around and I’ve even seen one ammo manufacture state that they load lighter for the safety of these older firearms with modern pressures. That being said most of your .270s aren’t shooting that velocity printed on the box , especially because most .270 rifles have a 22 inch barrel where as a .270 needs 24 inches to shine and sometimes 26 to really bust the numbers. That’s a downfall of a longer casing, also standard deviation numbers tend to fluctuate more with the longer shell casing. 6.5s relatively new to market and can get by with a shorter barrel since it has less powder to burn completely. I’m not biased one way or the other own them all. But the truth is just like the 30-06 the .270 tends to run quite a bit slower than the box. Who_tee_who did a 30-06 factory ammo chronograph test that strongly illustrates my point on RUclips I highly recommend people watch.
If you plug in a 130gr Partition load from Federal in .270 against a 129 SST from Hornady, you'll find that the .270 has the same energy at 75 yards as the 6.5 does at 25 yards. As you go longer in range, the 6.5 gains on the .270 until it passes it somewhere around 300y and actually has more energy. Add to that the reduced recoil of the 6.5, the smaller powder charges (like 1/3rd less powder in some instances) and I think the 6.5 is incredibly well rounded and gets a lot closer to the .270 than I would have expected. I doubt a deer would notice the slight advantage of the .270 at shorter range.
I have both a 6.5 and the 7mm-08 both are excellent but one gun Ill never get rid of is my 30-06. I can load 110 grain loads and go shoot varmints or 220 grain loads for any walking in North America.
I shoot both the 6.5 and 7-08. The 6.5 is a good deer cartridge. However I prefer the 7-08, as do my daughters. The difference in recoil isn't enough to sneeze at, I don't notice it. The 7-08 trajectory is flatter, it hits harder at longer ranges giving a good 50 yard advantage over the 6.5CM. The 7-08 can take heavier bullets better suited to bigger game. And it gives one more wiggle room for reloading, allowing one to heat things up more than the 6.5 can. I love both cartridges, but for now the 7-08 is my game hunting choice and the 6.5 gets everything else. Thanks for the vid.
Nice comparison. Thanks for making it. Still, the simple and practical truth is that all three of those cartridges are going to be fine on deer -- unless the shooter is exceptionally sensitive to recoil. Seems like, these days, people are a bit TOO worried about recoil. If top rate accuracy is an issue it will be easier to develop with the 6.5 CM.
I reload 130's in 7-08 and they travel ~2875 fps at the muzzle in my Savage 16 22" and 2960 fps from my Weatherby vanguard 24". Barely feel the recoil. My savage weighs in at 8lbs 2oz with scope and rings, whereas my Weatherby weighs in at 9lb, 1oz with scope and rings. Obviously, I could spend a bit more $$$ and drop a handful of oz by buying better rings, but the weight savings doesn't justify the increased cost. Basic Weaver rings for 7.99 @ walmart. Both rifles shoot this 130gr Speer spbt so well I can't believe it some days. I save money on the bullets, and I use only 42 grains of H4895 for the round. So, it's also economical. I had a 30-06, but decided that I wasn't gaining a thing by spending more on brass and more on powder. I like the 30-06, but I don't hunt elk, moose or brown bears, so really it's unnecessary. I was using 150 grain spire points by Hornady in my 06, but using 51-60 grains of powder depending on the powder. I usually get ~30-40 rounds more out of a lb of powder by sticking with my 7-08. Good video.
I had a Browning BBR in 7mm=08. I wish I had never gotten rid of it. I need another rifle in that caliber. Still have all the dies, etc. Currently putting together an Aero M5 in 6.5 Jesusmoor. We'll see how it does. Thank for the well done comparison, @bgallaher77
Thanks for all the knowledge.I have almostsettled for the 7-08. I will be hunting deer andantelope. I am recoil shy,so it is important tome. Availability of caliber bullet is also importantto me,the 6.5 creedmore ?Thanks AgainStan Flodin
For the last 20 years I have been hunting deer with the 7-08 or 270WIN. The 7-08 was with handholds using 140gr SGK at around just over 2800+. I have taken most deer with the Hornady 270 140 SST Superformance (deadly) and a few with the Hornady Precision Hunter 145 ELDX and also the Federal 150 Fusion. All three have killed deer about the same. The 270's have a higher muzzle velocity and the recoil difference feels negligible but I will grant that the lesser recoil makes for generally better accuracy. Over the last couple of years I have been shooting the 6.4C in PRS and just having fun playing with it in a spotter weight rifle. To sum up, I would go with the 270 or 6.5C the 7-08 just is not enough different from the 6.5C and the 270 delivers more oomph for not much more recoil. BTW i just like the higher BC and sectional density of the heavier bullets in the 270WIN.
This appears to be a recoil based video. How many shots are you taking on your hunting trip? The .280 matches the 6.5 to 800 meters and brings a hunting load. I own both and would not recommend replacing your .280 with a 6.5 to reduce recoil if your taking under 200 shots a season.
Most of us are thinking about DEER hunting. It doesn’t take a large caliber bullet to cleanly down a deer. If you’re hunting deer, blackbear, or even elk or caribou at reasonable ranges... The 6.5 and the 7 mm will do the job just fine. Only when you go BEYOND that 400 yard mark, or when hunting larger game like moose or Kodiak bear would I suggest going with a higher caliber.
7mm-08 for me. Great ballistics, good bullet selection, low recoil and less muzzle blast than .270. One thing the creedmoor has going for it lately is ammo availability.
Agree all three are great white tail deer cartridges, mainly due to the fact WT deer are not all that hard to put down, in an other video you could likley add 25-06, 257 Roberts, 308 win , 260 rem, 7mm mauser, 284 win, and a few more in the light recoil, easy kill WT deer out to 300 yards. I own all three you mention, I carry the 270 ( hand load 143gr eldx 3050fps) primarily because there are elk, moose and big Mule deer to consider in the area too, but I would feel confident with my 7mm08 (hand load 150gr eldx 2800fps), the 6.5 (hand load 129gr LRX 2850fps) would get the job done on any animal too but be my third choice of the three.
Great video. Inside of 400 yards no need for 270. Very reassuring for a guy like me with a bad back, neck and shoulder. Thanks. How about hogs? Any advantage to 7-08 on an animal like that or can I just go with 6.5 for both?
I have to say this video is a lot less biased against the 6.5 creedmoor then the other video I’ve seen on RUclips called 7mm-08 vs 6.5 creedmoor! That guy owns an loves the 7mm08 and he fudges the numbers towards the 708 and goes as far as saying he can’t find recoil data on 6.5 creedmoor so he’s calling the recoil the same for the 2! This video is a much better comparison! Thanks for your honesty!
The .270 was a pretty ordinary round until a famous writer fell in love with it. Not everybody hunts out west or over bean fields. A short, light, accurate rifle is what I need in the coal regions. I have used a 7x57(My favorite), 6.5x55, and .260 Remington quite often. I plan on a 7MM-08 when I get around to it. 6.5 Creedmore or .270? No advantage there for me.
@@fredrickmillstead6397 Not really. I re-barreled a 99 Savage to .260 Remington because a 6.5x55 will not fit. Plan the same with a 7MM-08. I have a .243 99 Savage and sold a 6mm Remington I had on a light Arisaka action I had built. Medium length cartridges feed much better in the small military actions when compared to a .308 based cartridge.
I shoot a Ruger M77 compact 7mm-08 with Barnes TTSX 140gr hand loads for everything - whitetail, muley and elk. Comfortable shooting out 400yds on deer, and 300-350 on elk.
The way I've always looked at it is that the range you expect to shoot at and the size/weight the animal you expect to harvest will dictate caliber and case size. The longer the range, the bigger the case size; the bigger the animal, the bigger the caliber! Any deviation from that logic sequence is a juggling of compromises for a specific preferred performance quality at the sacrifice of one or more of the other performance factors.
That is a good point. It you are shooting beyond a certain range you should be using a magnum. Otherwise the bullet may not perform. That range is up for debate, and the ethics are also debatable. But, if you plan on shooting at 450 or 500 yards, then you need something bigger than those listed in this video.
In what fantasy is a short action better than the Standard 30-06 length action? it's a 1/4 inch bolt throw difference. I have been shooting a 7mm-08 since 1982, along with a 6.5 x 55, 7mm x 57mm that I hand load for. As for the 270, I got five of them. As you state they are pretty close, you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference shooting game with any of them. It really comes down to how the particular rifle fits you and how well you shoot it. I don't own a Creedmoor for the simple reason, I got a very very good 6.5 x 55 and the Creedmoor dose nothing that rifle will not do. It's all splitting hairs. In the end, you could just shoot a 30-06 and not sweat it, for most of the world's big game. It all has little to do with want. The idea that Round Nose or Flat Base Bullets are no good or useless is just plain laughable.
Really like the 7-08. Its a highly underrated cartridge. With my reloads of 162 gr ELD-X its a great long range performer. Gives me 1000 ft lbs out to 800m. Use a ballistic app and plug the numbers in for that bullet going 2750 fps and ill stack it against a creedmoor any day! I am running a 26" 5r barrel to be fair.
They all work very well. The best gun is the one you shoot well. My two rifles for hunting has always been 3006. and 45 70. 3006 for longer ranges say out to 500 yards and 45 70 for a closer ranges on dangerous game at 200 yards on in, though both are capable of 1000 yard shots. I'm not recoil sensitive so these guns work for me because they will take down anything in the world. If I were recoil sensitive or maybe when I get older I would use the 7mm 08 simply because it competes with the 270 . and the recoil is about like a 30 30. To put things in prospective, my niece killed 9 deer in one season with a 223. Bolt action rifle when she was 12 years old. Shots were 30 yards on out to 130 yards.
Just to say for hunting purpose out of a 270Win you can squeeze a lot more!! For example with some factory ammunition Hornady SST 130gr Surperformance @ 400yards velocity is 2325fps /1560 ftlb of energy/ if zero for 300yards drop is 4.1inch @400! See Hornady balistique table. Those figures are comparable with my own reload, out of a 24' bergara both with both 130gn VLD and Nosler BT). Great video :) Edit, actually drop is 3.6 inches @ 400 yard (in theory :)
I have lots of guns, none of which ate either of these, thought of buying a 260 Remington one time bit as you say there is very little difference in b.c. all the calibers that will push a bullet ar 3000 fps. I like the 243 best for white tail sized game and use a 264 mag on bigger game. If I leave Texas I take the 7 mag.
@@johnt4060 No they are not better than a Savage, not by a long shot. Their QC is complete trash and they barely sell any rifles compared to Ruger and Savage because of it.
A great round. I have been debating on the 7mm-08. Very similar in ballistics if you compare same ammo maker, like Hornady. The 7mm-08, aka the .284, has been touted as outperforming 6.5 and 308. If you have any good opinions, please let me know. Thanks.
Jack O’Connor wrote about an African safari he went on where his wife carried a 7x57 Mauser (same ballistics as a 7mm-08), (I think) he had a 280 (30-06 necked down to 7mm), and another hunter had a 7mm Mag. He wrote that the effectiveness of all three rounds was identical.
7-08 is NOT the .284, although the diameter is the same. .284 win case is larger in diameter, rebated rim, much greater case capacity (almost 20%). Totally different animal.
Of course they are. Not to belabor the point, but 7x57, 7-08, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, and 28 Nosler all use .284 diameter bullets. I think you will find each of them a different breed of cat. 7x57 and 7-08 performance is similar, but the others are considerably different.
The 270 doesn’t have a lot of recoil. My dad just got a Howa 7-08. It shoots smooth as hell. I like it a lot. Might get one next year. Then again, might get one in 308 instead.
Thanks for replying. I read in one of Rex's books , how a n American ww2 veteran gave him a Mannlicher Schoenauer which the ex soldier had taken from the factory when the yanks invaded Germany. But now thinking about it, I think it was a 6.5 caliber. Apparently there spos to be one of the best rifle makes ever produced. Interesting what your father though of Rex though.
@@daveyboy6985 The Mannlicher rifle with the Schonauer rotary magazine is one of the finest bolt rifles you could ever use. Even Elmer Kieth agreed that they are second only to a double rifle for reliability and that is praise from Caesar. I have half a dozen in various calibres. Tell you a funny story about my Dad & Rex. They both worked for the same government department. My old man used to park in Rex's car park just to piss him off. Rex eventually went and had a cry to the Boss, who talked to my Dad. Rex then bragged around town that HE had sorted it out. My father heard this and very publicly asked Rex to step outside and sort it out once and for all. Rex declined. Dad continued to use his carpark.
@@MBCGRS wow, your very fortunate to have thos rifles. Yes and I remember reading about that rotary magazine they had. They also had the double trigger set up eh? Funny hearing about your dad's working experience with Rex. Is your Dad still alive?
@@daveyboy6985 Most rifles have the twin set trigger arrangement, but not all. I have one in 270 win with a single set and oversize guard for use with gloves. Dad is still kicking around and we are off for a Red deer hunt next week...
You’ve done research and made thoughtful comments that viewers should appreciate; and at 9:59 you said, “Short actions are better than long actions”, and I missed hearing any evidence to support that opinion. I appreciate your comments and comparisons about recoil; and would point out that in a hunting scenario that might have many repetitive shots recoil could have a cumulative effect compared to deer hunting where shots are infrequent. It seems recoil would have no bearing to some hunters. Many areas have had restrictions that steered hunters to 12 gauge slug guns which recoil quite heavily and hunters have to ignore recoil and absorb it. Some hunters prefer larger calibers and heavy bullets in calibers such as .30-06, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .45-70, .375 H&H, .300 Win Mag, .30-378 and .338 Lapua to name a few. Anyone using these rounds would be absorbing heavier recoil and may require long actions or magnum actions. It seems a short action wouldn’t be best and instead would be unusable. During the past two seasons and ten deer harvests I’ve fired a 290 grain bullet seven times and a 168 grain bullet three times. In no instance was a short action used and in no instance was recoil noticed. Each of those ten was harvested with a single shot from a single shot rifle. Those shots ranged from fifteen yards to three hundred yards. Ballistics tables can be interesting and fun to study and compare. The most important ballistic tables are for the rounds one chooses to hunt with. Hunters may enjoy shooting from a plethora of suitable cartridges. Once cartridges are selected in whatever actions one likes it would be prudent to become familiar with those rounds and enjoy the shooting experience, including the recoil. Whatever round a hunter chooses a good knowledge of the quarry’s anatomy and the hunting skill to be close enough to accurately fire a lethal shot is essential.
This is a fair point, that I did not support the long v short opinion. I started hunting with a 300 Mag. Hunting was fine, but sighting in and target practice with that beast was brutal. Eventually I moved to a 270 and have used that for 10 years. I like the 270 because it works and because I find the recoil manageable when shooting from a bench or at paper targets, when you feel the recoil. I have also shot NRA sporting rifle matches at 200 yards with a 243. Those matches include 4-shot rapid fire strings. I found that working the short action of the 243 was easier than the long action on the 270 to a small but perceptible degree. There is less if a risk of short stroking the short action. All things being equal, I would go with a short action. As you point out, if you want a 30-06 based cartridge or traditional magnum, the you are stuck with long action. For me, long action is not a deal breaker. Short action preferred, but not to the point where I would only use a short action. If I want to shoot 100 to 120 grain bullets at deer, I go short action. Bigger then I go long action. I would not sell a 270 to get something that is short action... but if I had the two rifles already... Anyway, thank you for the comment. Oh, at some point a person has to decide if they are a shooter who hunts (probably want something that has low recoil so you can spend time at the range) or a hunter that shoots (sight in the gun once, go hunting and never worry about recoil again so long as you don’t get hit with the scope). I chose shooter who hunts.
Your response makes sense and if I had been more familiar with you videos then perhaps I would not have raised the point. I have been slammed to the turf a few times and punched a bit within the confines of the ropes; and I suppose I embrace the contact and recoil more than some. Your recoil considerations for range work are quite proper. I prefer shooting the .358 Winchester and .454 Casull. I suppose I just enjoy a bit more feedback. Thank you for responding.
Nosler data for the 6.5 CM is notoriously mild with 140gr bullets. Almost every load book will show more like 2700fps with the 140s. So the comparison with Sierra data or Hodgdon data from their load books and you'll have a much more valid comparison.
A lot of these fancy rounds are great. I love them all. However If you are the average man and you are lucky enough to get off work and go deer hunting. pick a round you can find on the shelf at you're local sporting goods store. Or a friendly Walmart. I like .308 and 30-06 .270 or 3030. These guns may kick a little. But you can find these rounds any where Ammo is sold. I killed a nice 8 point yesterday with my .308 150 Gr pointed soft point. And now I think I will hunt my next White tail with my 30-06. Happy hunting!
Thanks! I’m in the process of adding another rifle for deer hunting and have been contemplating which caliber to choose. It’s between a 25-06 and the 7mm 08. I’ve been going back and forth leaning towards the 08 due to the fact I have plenty of 7mm bullets for hand loading my 280 AI. Video clarified a few facts for me concerning ballistics, etc. Thanks again!
I have another video titled “the ultimate deer rifle cartridge.” That video gets lots of comments. Some are even polite. Lots of votes for 7mm-08. A solid cartridge that performs well and has modest recoil. The 25-06 is a pretty compelling choice, too. Rifles usually have 24” barrels, which gives around 50 fps more than a 22” barrel. Bullets in the 120 grain weight are good for deer and come out fast. If I did not already have a 270 I might get one. I did buy a 7mm-08 with a 20” barrel to compliment my 270...
I own all 3 and like them all ,but the .270 hands down out to 400 yds is ballistically the best for elk and down ,the 7mm08 and 6.5 are enough medicine for deer and great guns for woman or children my daughter shoots the 6.5 creedmoor with no problem .
The author did said 6.5 creedmoor and 7mm rem are short action and short action are better than long action. It's written toward the end of his summary.
@@jonx20009 did he say anything about a 270 wsm?.. no..I don't get your point..the 6.5 and 7mm08 are indeed sa..but you brought up a cartridge that has nothing to do with this whatsoever..the author is obviously biased in favor of the 6.5..he ignored ballistics,speed and trajectory and claimed it was better than the 270 and 7mm08..
You should have included in your test the 6.5x55mm. This cartridge has been my go to for years and it performs just as good if not better than any of these cartridges in my opinion.
Nosler's reloading book shows the 6.5x55 being only 100-200 fps behind thew 6.5 Creedmoor, and that is probably because 6.5x55 might be shot in an old rifle and therefore reloading manuals might recommend a lower maximum load (the Speer manual has two sets of load data, one for any rifle and one for modern rifles). My opinion is that the ballistics are basically the same, 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Throw in the 260 Rem with the other two as well. The same bullets traveling about the same velocity, all generating about the same amount of recoil. The biggest problem with anything 6.5mm is finding a rifle and ammunition. It isn't all that hard to have a gun shop order a specific gun (being left handed I have some experience with this), so you would have to make some effort to get a 6.5x55. Not saying it isn't worth while...
If you consider that hornady offers a 143 ELD-X (hunting bullet) and an advertised velocity of 2700 FPS the 6.5 Creedmoor will exceed both cartridges ballistically and with terminal performance.
brock appleto Hornady also makes a .270 145 grain ELD-X with an advertised muzzle velocity of 2970 fps. 270 still wins. The Creedmoor gives performance similar to the .270 with less recoil but an equal it is not. You have to compare apples to apples. Put that same ELD-X bullet in a .270 and you get better performance.
the 7mm08 beats 270 because is is shorter case and less recoil , the 7mm08 beats 6.5 because it has a little more energy , might say the 270 has more energy and it does but when hunting shot placement is all that matters so with that said throw out the 270 and now compare the 7mm08 and 6.5 , the 7mmo8 is the exact same but with a little more energy so 7mm08 wins
The bc on the 270 eldx is still like a brick compared to the 6.5. I have my Creedmoor with the 143 eldx loaded to 2850. Up to 500 the 270 hits harder but after that the balistically superior 6.5 takes over
Im sticking with 270 winchester. Ive never seen 6.5 or 7mm08 bullets at my homehardware. Ive seen 270 so ill stick with whats there. I had a new 7mm08 for 1 month then traded it, bought brand new but had a hell of a time trying to find bullets yet everywere i went 270 was just sitting there. 270 for the win
.308 150 grain with the velocity of 2153 at 400 yards and hitting with 1543 ft. lbs sounds pretty comparable, I'll take the trade of that little extra power, over the drop! Where I've grown up hunting it's only out to 200 yards ethically if your lucky!.... In the woods up here in the NEK it's more often 40- 100 yards.
Factor in cost of ammo and, availability then the 6.5 is eliminated from the talk. A few pounds of recoil is not noticed also it depends on make of rifle and model as well.
Hello mate, Could You give me some advice in term of barrel life of these calibers ( 6,5Creedmore, 260rem, 270rem, 6,5x55SE) I would like to choose hunting rifle ( wild boar, roe deer, foxes on longer distances) and I’m wondering about the life length of the barrel. Thanks ! Take Care and I’m waiting for Your recommendations ;)
What should be the length and diameter of the barrel You will choose for my application? I would like to hunt with it and play some paper and steel targets on longer distances 300-400-800 meteres
I have no personal experience on barrel wear. From reading a book on NRA High Power shooting. In general, smaller caliber barrels wear out faster than larger diameter barrels, and in general heavy bullets wear out barrels faster than lighter bullets. My guess is that there is no practical difference in expected lifetime for any of the 6.5 cartridges you listed.
bgallaher77 Thanks for Your response. What do You think about some out of the box rifles for my aplication? I was thinking about Tikka T3x Varmint in 6,5Creedmore, 6,5Swedish or 260/270rem. My second option is Tikka T3x Sporter, third option is Savage model 12 VLP, fourth option will be Weatherby Mark V. What do You think, and what seems to You the best choice in term of quality, accuracy ? What will You choose from these abovementioned ones?
I have a Tikka 595, which is one model older than the T3. It is a very nice rifle. A varmint barrel would be good. I also have a savage police rifle, which is good but I like the tikka more. If you handload, the 6.5x55 might get the edge. Lots of 6.5CM factory ammo available. I like the 270 win, but not sure that is a good fit for long range hunting. Lots of power, but you pay for it with recoil. Good luck.
How does this translate to elk? I’m waiting for the day that I can get on an elk hunt. I’m thinking creedmoor since I’d want a deer caliber that works on elk and not an elk caliber that works on deer since they don’t have elk in the south east.
I used to think the same, then I bought a 300 WSM. I have never felt recoil while hunting before that rifle. for whatever reason, the felt recoil was like a kick from a horse, more pain than pleasure, and I've shot several 45 cal large hunting rounds and a 50BMG with not recoil dampening. I didn't get auditory exclusion either, heard every shot. I sold the rifle and now looking at the 6.5 CM.
I don’t think about it anymore. My, now sold, 30-06 kicked the crap out of me and I couldn’t accurately hit anything over 200 yards just due to recoil flinch. With my 7-08, I am ringing a 6” gong all day at 500 yards. Now I think of fried tenderloins.
Shaun Haglund I used to be the same way. I couldn't shoot my 30-06 for anything. But then I got a shotgun and... When you shoot 3" slugs in a 5lb 12ga with a fixed mod choke, a 30-06 no longer bothers you
I’ll take either the 270 or the 7-08. Finding the 270 in most stores is a given though the 6.5 is coming along but still not as plentiful the 270. Recoil isn’t something I take into consideration when buying a rifle. To some it may be relevant but not me. I still hunt with both the 308 and the 06 so I don’t have a need for the 6.5.
Good video. You don't need to use high precision g(acceleration constant) because g is not a constant. g depends on latitude and height above sea level. g is higher at North and South poles that at the equator.
Shot placement, understanding your bullets construction and maintaining an impact velocity of 2600fps are what matters, for every cartridge there is always going to be one thats better, 6.5-284 smokes the creedmore, a 7mm mag will smoke both etc. the versatility of 7mm and .30 bores is insane
270 Win is probably the winner there. Easy to fine, and as low as $14 a box lately. The counter argument is that given the time and expense for hunting, you might as well get premium ammo. That makes cost less of an issue.
I never knew that bullets Rise once they leave the muzzle aiming Straight at your zero@ 300-400 yards. I always thought that Gravity and Drag take effect as soon as the bullet leaves the muzzle
The line of sight and the bullets path are not parallel. Remember that the scope is mounted above the barrel. The bullet exits with a trajectory that creates an arc, which lobs the bullet slightly up. The zero is where the arc of the bullet and the line of sight converge as the bullet falls, due to the effect of gravity. Vertically, In effect, rather than just dropping the bullet from the end of the barrel, you toss it up slightly so that it hits an apogee slightly over the line of sight. The velocity of the bullet starts to decrease, rapidly, when the bullet exits the barrel due to atmospheric drag. So, you cannot use freshman physics (assumes a vacuum) to solve the ballistic problem. Rather the velocity is described by a differential equation. So you were initially correct. The bullet has no lift like an airplanes wing. The rise is just due to using a ballistic trajectory where the path of the bullet and the line of sight are not initially parallel.
Yeah, 6.5mm goes way way back, with the 6.5x55 in use since 1894. In terms of exterior ballistics, the 6.5 Creedmoor fits into the same performance envelope as the 6x5x55 and any of the other 6.5mm short action cartridges. That includes the 260 Rem, it fits into the same performance envelope as the 6.5 Creedmoor, with maybe a slight velocity advantage, but any advantage won't show itself inside 400 yards. As for the 7mm-08, Remington introduced it commercially in 1980, so it is no longer a wildcat. In the video I just truncated the name from 7mm-08 Remington down to 7mm-08.
7-08 hasn't been a wildcat for 40 years. It's very popular where I live. Most major manufacturers make rifles chambered in 7-08 and every ammo company makes ammo for it. The 260rem is pretty much dying. Companies are making the 6.5 creedmoor, including Remington.
Interesting comparison except the 7mm08 has about 25% more penetration power than the 6.5 using the 140grn at 100 yards. Look up banana ballistics tests. How closer or further distances compare?? but with a 25% better penetration window from 100 yards, that would fall into the range of over 90% of deer hunting range. Contrary to the numbers you mentioned
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I have deer hunted with a 30-06 for 45 years. But if I was starting to deer hunt today, the 7mm-08 would be my first choice. It's almost the perfect caliber for whitetail deer.
I'll say this, the 7mm-08 is one heckuva deer cartridge.
I have a 30-06 and for years I swore by it, but in recent years I've been introduced to the 7mm-08 and I'm amazed at how good of a caliber it is.
It provides a perfect combination of Ballistic coefficients, flat trajectory, bullet selection, low recoil and ideal down range power.
you would fall in love all over again with the 6.5 CM too
Agreed. if only Remington had the marketing genius of Hornady, just about everyone would have their dad's ole 7mm-08 in the gun case. And not to drop a grenade and run, but while we are on 7mm's, the .280 Remington ever so slightly beats out the .270 Winchester, but again, Remington just didn't have the marketing prowess.
@@canecutter77
280rem is an amazing long range cartridge and even better was a 280ai.
If only they were more widespread
I'm a little late to the party here.
I have a 7mm-08 and a 6.5X55 and really like both. Great calibers.
Thank you for taking the time to produce this informative video.
I wish there were more rifle options in 6.5x55 Swede. Basically only Tikka and maybe CZ.
@The Riff Lair Those two plus Sauer, Sako and Ruger has a special edition of their M77 Hawkeye in 6.5X55.
I just love the 270w. I've used it all African game from Springbok in the Kalahari to massive Kudu in the bushveld in the Limpopo valley. One shot kills had been the norm...the 270 is just very versatile and reliable.
The range of game out there will certainly challenge a calibers versatility. This is one of many examples of why the 270 soldiers on.
270 is a nice upgrade to the venerable old 303 British that I used in SA.
If nothing else , thanks for pointing out how close in velocity my 7-08 in a 140 flavor is to that of the venerable 270. Hadn't considered comparing those two against one another.
Great video, i was afraid i maybe should have gotten the 6.5 after hearing but this shows me my 7mm08 is no noticeable difference in the 2 rifles. but i will have a 6.5 creedmoor as i have 5 grandsons that will soon be needing low recoil rifles. 3 boys are proficient with .22cal's now. thanks for great, very informative video
myself a victim of the magnum craze of the last century, i'm glad to see sensible cartridges like the 7-08 finally really getting the spotlight. recoil manageable, meat destruction minimal. i hope the 600 yd hunting
club has limited membership. hunting is not war where merely wounding the enemy is prescribed.
100% my friend, my 300 Win Mag really doesn't get out the safe much anymore... my 7mm-08 just about lives in my truck. Ive shot deer with both, and I can honestly say I'd rather hit a deer with the 7mm-08, so much less destruction, and more edible deer. Ive never shot a deer past 200yrds, here in the north east it'd be extremely rare. Every local shop says they sell more 30-30 before deer season than almost anything.
In western hunting with lots of open country 600 yards is reasonable with proper optics and loads.
I was also the last of the magnums, who has not been, I keep most of my shots within 300 meters, however I have been able to hunt with the 270, at 440 meters, it is the longest shot I have successfully fired, and it was the maximum distance after much reflection from my team and the Kiss or easy principle, after having injured 2 or 3 deer with bad experience.
@@ashmerch2558 I live in the Northeast also. My longest shot ever was 55 paces. My shortest shot was in the neighborhood of 8 feet. And I missed haha.
Carbines with open sights is the only way to go in the north woods.
@@ryanehlis426 Not ethical for 95%+ of the hunters under typical conditions,, wind, elevation etc... Go to the range and look at the 1st cold bore shot of the vast majority of shooters at anywhere near this range and its a miss, and the target doesn't ever move during flight. Estimates according to Gov sources claim in some area's 20+% of game is wounded and not recovered and I bet the vast majority of those shots are much less than 600 yards.
I own all .308 derivatives, 243, 260, 7mm08 and, 308. My favorite is 7mn08.
Don't forget the .357 Winchester, its a thumper.
Great video for beginners like myself, trying to learn as much as we can about firearms for hunting. Liked and subscribed!
All I can say is it's the shooter that makes the gun! It's not the gun that makes the shooter! It doesn"t really matter which one of the three calibers you like. Their all good calibers, and at the end of the day knowing your gun is what counts.
I reload for about 30 different calibers and hunt with many of those, 7mm-08, 270 Win (and WSM) and a 6.5x55 SE (ballistic twin to the Creedmoor) are all among them and I consider all of them to be top tier deer/hog rifles. That said if we were to split hairs the breakdown looks like this.
The 7mm-08 is the most pleasant to shoot of the bunch being less overbore than the other two meaning less muzzle blast and recoil is very mild even driving 140gr bullets well above factory speeds (2922fps chrono verified). While I love my 7mm-08 now I was about ready to throw it in the river at first, it took some doing to get it to group, factory ammo and my first attempts to handload shot 4-7" groups at 100 yards, very frustrating. If anyone else encounters this problem try Ramshot Big Game powder it was my magic cure.
The 6.5x55 is easily the most accurate of the bunch, 6.5mms are well known for scary nail driving accuracy, mine punches single hole groups at 100 yards with Hornady SSTs and SUB MOA groups with literally everything else, but it has more drop then the other two given it's lower speed (around 2800fps with 140s using RL22). Recoil is VERY light but the muzzle blast is pronounced with my warm handloads behind a short 22" barrel making it seem like more to those around you.
The 270 achieves the flattest trajectory of the bunch with hunting weight bullets and at close range has the highest energy, and while they are not as hair splitting accurate as my 6.5 both hold 1/2-3/4" groups at 100 making them more then accurate enough for any hunting, I have yet to find a 270 I could not get some really good accuracy out of very quickly. The recoil on a 270 is significantly more pronounced than the other two taking the 270s out of the "sissy kicker" category in my book, not painful but not exactly fun either, both 270s are 24" barrels so the muzzle blast is not any worse than the 6.5x55 IMHO.
All three have performed well for me on deer/hog class game, most drop in their tracks longest tracking job to date was only about 30-40 yards and that was my fault for marginal shot placement, you cannot go wrong with any of the three in my book.
I agree with your preference for the 270 Winchester. Can't believe the guy said, short actions are always better than long actions. Actually, those are standard actions.
270 can be less than 05 moa you only have to shoot more than 150 yards and no more than 2 shots
I am disabled with arthritis so I have to stick with the "sissy kickers", but I agree that if you are going to hunt elk you would be doing good to have a 270.
Recoil numbers for the 6.5, especially the 140gr is impressive. That's a great deer round. More than enough energy, even at 400 yards with minimal recoil.... That's why it's so popular. Family member uses a 7mm-08 and has taken 3 deer the last 2 years. Using Hornady sst's all have dropped in their tracks. Jello inside. They were only 50yd shots but man it's nice dropping them in their tracks and not ruining meat. Don't think you can go wrong with a 6.5 or 7-08
actually the difference between all three is so minimal, it's not worth writing to the NRA or Congress about. one or the other will not make or break your hunt. hunters need to stop being salesmen.
25.06 is also pretty awsome.
@@dalanwanbdiska6542 barrel burner
This has nothing to do with the 6.5cm vs 7mm-08 comparison, but I have taken 7 deer in the last 2 years with a 243, all at right at 125 yards (I know, that isn't that far) and all but one dropped in their tracks and the other one went about 60 yards.
I do plan to get a 7mm-08 for next season just to have something different.
If you are strictly a target shooter go with the 6.5. The 7mm-08 is better for hunting because of the wider selection of .284 bullets.
D D 7-08 has a WAAAYYY wider selection! Thanks for bringing this up
If recoil doesn’t bother you the .270 win beats both I don’t understand why folks don’t see that don’t get me wrong I have a 6.5 creedmoor and I love it but it’s in black and white if you are open minded about the whole deal. Now will I carry one over the other? Nope. I’m going to carry which ever one I want but if you look at ballistics and performance the .270win has the advantage
Viscous Shear if it doesn’t blow up;). For bulls selection, 7mm and 30 cal can’t be touched. But my 6.5 does all I need, so having lighter or heavier adds no value to me.
I've been hunting with a 6.5 for a year I'm very happy with it. If I want anything bigger I just break out the 300 win mag.
@Otium Borealis Not to mention the tack driving accuracy and light recoil . ; )
Enjoyed your video. I think the recoil issue is much larger than most people think. I'm a firearms instructor for a long time. And when you see the negative effect of recoil on shooting fundamentals, its pretty serious. Sometimes a flinch develops so bad that its not curable. And then you find that people won't practice with their guns because its just not enjoyable. Science seems to suggest anything above 10 ftlbs on the recoil will be uncomfortable to most people. So, the cartridges here are quite excellent for deer hunting. I advise people to download their rounds when the standard load breaches the 10 ftlbs limit. No loss in performance with ethical hunting distances, and no degradation of shooting fundamentals do to flinching or lack of practice. One of my favorite hunting loads is a downloaded .308 with a 130gr monolithic. 2600 MV, and good to go to about 300yds. Recoil pleasant and all you need to hunt deer and pigs.
One last point, gun fit matters. And if a gun fits poorly, the recoil problem is bigger.
Larger game, say an Elk, well now we're into a tough spot trying to have adequate power with tolerable recoil. My solution, practice with downloaded rounds, then go full bore on the hunt.
well said man. every word.
@@stevestringham1095 👍 thx brother.
Thank you for the high quality technical breakdown
You look at the whole enchilada, 7mm08. Reloading has greater advantage. You resize a .308 and you have a 7mm 08.
Thanks for the video man, I appreciate it. One thing that might make a good video would be the .308 case comparison. .243 Win, 7mm-08, .308, .338 Fed etc. Would be interesting to see
Having shot all 3 calibres and observed their impact on game I would have to say the .270 is by far the best choice for me from 250 yds on.The 7m 08 is also a fine choice but I think the 6.5 is lacking at what alot of people are making it out to be. The 6.5 is very accurate on target shooting but I don't see any improvement at 300 yds over the 6.5x55 swede in fact I would go for the 6.5x55 over the 6.5 creedmore, but hey that's just me and my experience and having fired a couple hundred rounds in testing.
6.5 Cr is a great round, but hyped up to the moon. A shame how it is being advertised as 'better' by writers who know better, but are just getting paid to hype fake stats,
Agreed. The 7-08 is a much better round for hunting, and will actually keep up with the 6.5 for competition.
@@oleboy7615 I'm no expert but pretty sure 6.5 groups tighter for competition shooting. I would lean toward 7mm-08 as the best all round choice here too but if you go 270win you might as well go for like a 7mm rem mag.
@@auzziguy449 I imagine the grouping will depend more on the shooter than the rifle btwn the two.
I shoot 7mm-08 Dropped deer & Black Bear hell over I Switzerland they kill moose with 7mm-08! All 7mm-08 is, is a necked down .308 that accepts 7mm bullet look it up... has same energy as a 308 but less recoil & shoots flatter then a .308. I've shoot 30-06 but I now use a Ruger American Predator in 7mm-08 a absolute amazing rifle!
I reload for all 3 along with around 20 other calibers. I love the 6.5mm guns. I've always found it very easy to find good accurate loads
For years I used a Number One Ruger in 270WCF here in Alberta .The 270 WCF is very moderate as far as recoil is involved .The 338 with 250 gr. has a whoop to it for sure.
The .270 is just about perfect for all big game. However I also shoot a 7mm08 because I also enjoy it's versatility. Together I use them for every hunting situations!
Not for elk. It has neither the bullet weight or velocity capable of plowing a big bullet through heavy hide and muscle to get to the vitals on angle shots. A good deer gun but UNFIT for elk unless their standing BROADSIDE and are close.
@@twolak1972 I agree, but most hunters just hunt whitetail and most shots are at 300 yards or less, for the average hunter 7mm-08 would be the best choice
I find that there is a threshold of workable recoil, with the 30 06 or 270, I can't take as much liberties as with the 7mm 08 or 6.5. What I mean by that is with off hand shooting, I can hike the 7mm 08 high in my shoulder pocket, so I don't have to drop my head to get a cheek weld, and I can shoot like that all day, with better accuracy, more consistent sight picture and better balance. The 270 is on the border, but the 30 06 is just a little uncomfortable, and I find myself needing to prioritize recoil mitigation in my stance. I do realize others can shoot a 30 06 off hand very well, but I am better with the 7mm 08. The 6.5 is real nice too in that regard. They are all great calibers, thanks for the great video.
There is an old-school rule from a book published around 1920 (found it in a college library when I was a student, couldnt tell you what it was, might have been published by Wheelen) that had a rule of thumb. 14 ft lbs is about the limit for being able to comfortably shoot a long time, for the average person at a stationary target. It was somewhat higher for moving targets (shotguns and clay birds). Seemed to be a good rule of thumb in my experience.
When do you ever feel any noticeable recoil when shooting at game with those rounds?
7mm-08 all the way
you are fkn wrong
@BLUE COLLAR BOXING ...you can talk to deer?....IMPRESSIVE! =)
10 4 budir
@@robertcarr6270 WHAAAAT?
7mm-08!!!!!
Not a bad commentary, I don't own a 6.5 Creedmore, but I have shot a number of 6.5 x 55's and I currently own an older Sako so chambered. I have hunted with a 7mm-08 back when it was first introduced, I also hunt with a 7 x 57 and I had at one time owned and hunted with over dozen 270's and a bunch more along with 338's 375's and 416 Remingtons. 400 yards in big game hunting is a far-off shot, doable but its a long way out to shoot, Deer Elk Moose or what have you are not paper targets. The 6 5 x 55 and 7mm x 57mm is pretty much a handloaders cartridge. A 270 or 30-06 is pretty much all the recoil most can withstand and still shoot fairly well, I will add my other favorite cartridge and the one I hunt with the most these days the 7mm Remington Mag. I have for a long time called the 6.5 x 55 and you could say the same of the 6.5 Creedmore they are pocket 270's you are not going to be able to tell the difference hunting big game with either one at least not the big game that most of us hunt or will ever hunt, deer size things of the White Tail persuasion. Where it gets interesting is when you start going to Elk Moose, Bison, for most it's a one or two hunts in a lifetime so it's kind of moot. I use to live in Alaska so things are different due to conditions and size of the Game hunted, I shot a 338 most of the time and I did have a 270 as well. Most of the time either would have been fine. Where I live and hunt now, a 30-30 Winchester or a 243 would be more than plenty, heck a 223 in an AR-15 would be fine too and then some, you be surprised on how many of those are used to hunt within Bush Alaska. But it's not so I don't. I still think that you can't go wrong with either a 270 or 30-06 and a good 4x or 6x fixed power sight in good strong mounts like Talley or Warne, Keep it simple. Ditto on the 200-yard Zero. As I have gotten older I don't over think this stuff as I did 50 years ago, now I think about how I am going to cook venison better and how I can improve my sauce making ability, seasons are short so I make up for it in the Kitchen. That was not so when I was young.
Very interesting video indeed, its amazing when you look at the pure values I actually wonder why people have bought the 6.5. The 7-08 seems far more advantageous and efficient (not including the minimal recoil difference). It seems the 6.5 creedmore trend will fade away in time. It also shows why, to recoil tolerant hunters the 270 has stood the test of time. Keep up the great vids.
Keeping my 7mm 08 pistol -- what recoil ??
Exactly, my 7-08 has virtually no recoil and hits like a hammer.....why would anyone want to explore other options ?
well --- my Other pistol is a .308 so -------
I would be more impressed if it was a 45-70
6.5 will stick around. 7-08 is very popular here in NY. A lot of people have dropped their magnums for it.
The 6.5CM and the 7mm-08 are both ideal for a dual purpose rifle that you wish to both hunt deer with and also use for high volume long range target shooting & marksmanship training at the range. Also great for women and children and as a junior training rifle.
I have a 7mm-08 that I shot an antelope at a measured 568 yards. In entered the right ham, blew a 3 inch hole through the heavy ham bone, entered the body cavity, completely penetrated the body cavity, cut two ribs, penetrated the shoulder blade, and stopped 1/2 from exiting the meat, and retained 92% of its weight. I don't need anything better than that.
.270 Win is the bomb.
Thank you for the overview and comparison. I thought it was well done. A couple things you left out was barrel length and weight of the typical rifle for caliber. When you start with new shooters blast and weight typically have a negative impact.
Now.., where the bullet hits the target AND having the correct bullet for the job, WITHIN the shooters skill level is all about bringing home the meat. These are the things more important than caliber wars.
That was a good well reasoned presentation. Answered many of my questions. But why not go with the traditional 243 Winchester instead?
This video was a follow on to my other video “the ultimate deer rifle cartridge”. In that video I chose the 270, and made this video in response to comments on the 7mm-08 and 6.5cm. 243 is fine and recoils less than any of these three. I am comfortable with more recoil, so I use a 270.
7mm-08 or 6.5 creed are just way better yhan 243 for anything bigger than a coyote
What about the 280 Ackley? Like a 270 but with better numbers and would be within 2 ft/lbs of recoil.
These are by chance the 3 deer cartridges I use and love. Anyone hating on the 6.5 Creedmoor must be a person who didn't own a cell phone for the first time until 2010 because "you don't need that new fangled stuff!"
Ha! I like it. That guy also shoots a 30-40 Krag... hard to find ammo for it..
Good video. The reason I bought my 7mm-08 was because it matched the performance of my 270 win for hunting purposes with less recoil and was available chambered in lightweight hunting rifles with shorter barrels, better for hunting timber. When the 6.5 CM became popular I bought 2! It is essentially identical performance to my 7mm-08 but much easier to find ammo for 6.5CM in 2018!
I bought a browning xbolt micro midas, which is the nicest rifle I own. In 7mm08. Easiest rifle to carry around hunting I have ever had. Love it. Still like my Ruger M77 in 270, but it is pretty beefy (ie overbuilt) compared to the xbolt.
Pick your caliber/cartridge and platform then learn your system. "Beware the man with only one rifle, he probably knows how to use it." - unknown
ELMER KEITH said that about a handgun
RKBA -Jeff Cooper
I think that was Teddy Roosevelt
Beware the man w just 1 rifle, he probably doesn't know what hes talking about
Steven Long and you are correct to a point.
I love the .270, i have shot many and owned a few. What so many people forget so easily is that you aren’t shooting the box. The numbers on the box mean nothing. And since at minimum 75% of hunters don’t reload, let’s use off the shelf ammo for a reference. The .270 is flat out awesome but the truth is there are a lot of older .270s as well as 7-08 rifles floating around and I’ve even seen one ammo manufacture state that they load lighter for the safety of these older firearms with modern pressures. That being said most of your .270s aren’t shooting that velocity printed on the box , especially because most .270 rifles have a 22 inch barrel where as a .270 needs 24 inches to shine and sometimes 26 to really bust the numbers. That’s a downfall of a longer casing, also standard deviation numbers tend to fluctuate more with the longer shell casing. 6.5s relatively new to market and can get by with a shorter barrel since it has less powder to burn completely. I’m not biased one way or the other own them all. But the truth is just like the 30-06 the .270 tends to run quite a bit slower than the box. Who_tee_who did a 30-06 factory ammo chronograph test that strongly illustrates my point on RUclips I highly recommend people watch.
If you plug in a 130gr Partition load from Federal in .270 against a 129 SST from Hornady, you'll find that the .270 has the same energy at 75 yards as the 6.5 does at 25 yards. As you go longer in range, the 6.5 gains on the .270 until it passes it somewhere around 300y and actually has more energy.
Add to that the reduced recoil of the 6.5, the smaller powder charges (like 1/3rd less powder in some instances) and I think the 6.5 is incredibly well rounded and gets a lot closer to the .270 than I would have expected.
I doubt a deer would notice the slight advantage of the .270 at shorter range.
I have both a 6.5 and the 7mm-08 both are excellent but one gun Ill never get rid of is my 30-06. I can load 110 grain loads and go shoot varmints or 220 grain loads for any walking in North America.
I shoot both the 6.5 and 7-08. The 6.5 is a good deer cartridge. However I prefer the 7-08, as do my daughters. The difference in recoil isn't enough to sneeze at, I don't notice it. The 7-08 trajectory is flatter, it hits harder at longer ranges giving a good 50 yard advantage over the 6.5CM. The 7-08 can take heavier bullets better suited to bigger game. And it gives one more wiggle room for reloading, allowing one to heat things up more than the 6.5 can. I love both cartridges, but for now the 7-08 is my game hunting choice and the 6.5 gets everything else. Thanks for the vid.
Nice comparison. Thanks for making it. Still, the simple and practical truth is that all three of those cartridges are going to be fine on deer -- unless the shooter is exceptionally sensitive to recoil. Seems like, these days, people are a bit TOO worried about recoil. If top rate accuracy is an issue it will be easier to develop with the 6.5 CM.
I reload 130's in 7-08 and they travel ~2875 fps at the muzzle in my Savage 16 22" and 2960 fps from my Weatherby vanguard 24". Barely feel the recoil. My savage weighs in at 8lbs 2oz with scope and rings, whereas my Weatherby weighs in at 9lb, 1oz with scope and rings. Obviously, I could spend a bit more $$$ and drop a handful of oz by buying better rings, but the weight savings doesn't justify the increased cost. Basic Weaver rings for 7.99 @ walmart. Both rifles shoot this 130gr Speer spbt so well I can't believe it some days. I save money on the bullets, and I use only 42 grains of H4895 for the round. So, it's also economical. I had a 30-06, but decided that I wasn't gaining a thing by spending more on brass and more on powder. I like the 30-06, but I don't hunt elk, moose or brown bears, so really it's unnecessary. I was using 150 grain spire points by Hornady in my 06, but using 51-60 grains of powder depending on the powder. I usually get ~30-40 rounds more out of a lb of powder by sticking with my 7-08. Good video.
I had a Browning BBR in 7mm=08. I wish I had never gotten rid of it. I need another rifle in that caliber. Still have all the dies, etc. Currently putting together an Aero M5 in 6.5 Jesusmoor. We'll see how it does. Thank for the well done comparison, @bgallaher77
Thanks for all the knowledge.I have almostsettled for the 7-08. I will be hunting deer andantelope. I am recoil shy,so it is important tome. Availability of caliber bullet is also importantto me,the 6.5 creedmore ?Thanks AgainStan Flodin
7-08 is a great hunting round so is the creedmore
We already had the 6.5 creedmore and 7mm08 years ago with the 6.5 sweed and 7x57 mauser
Yeah, except the 6.5x55 and 7x57 had better ballistics. So performance actually went down.
@@bgallaher77 I don't understand your reply ?,
I have a 6.5 creedmoor n 7mm08 love them both
For the last 20 years I have been hunting deer with the 7-08 or 270WIN. The 7-08 was with handholds using 140gr SGK at around just over 2800+. I have taken most deer with the Hornady 270 140 SST Superformance (deadly) and a few with the Hornady Precision Hunter 145 ELDX and also the Federal 150 Fusion. All three have killed deer about the same. The 270's have a higher muzzle velocity and the recoil difference feels negligible but I will grant that the lesser recoil makes for generally better accuracy. Over the last couple of years I have been shooting the 6.4C in PRS and just having fun playing with it in a spotter weight rifle. To sum up, I would go with the 270 or 6.5C the 7-08 just is not enough different from the 6.5C and the 270 delivers more oomph for not much more recoil. BTW i just like the higher BC and sectional density of the heavier bullets in the 270WIN.
This appears to be a recoil based video. How many shots are you taking on your hunting trip? The .280 matches the 6.5 to 800 meters and brings a hunting load. I own both and would not recommend replacing your .280 with a 6.5 to reduce recoil if your taking under 200 shots a season.
Most of us are thinking about DEER hunting. It doesn’t take a large caliber bullet to cleanly down a deer. If you’re hunting deer, blackbear, or even elk or caribou at reasonable ranges... The 6.5 and the 7 mm will do the job just fine. Only when you go BEYOND that 400 yard mark, or when hunting larger game like moose or Kodiak bear would I suggest going with a higher caliber.
They are all fantastic calibers for hunting.
7mm-08 for me. Great ballistics, good bullet selection, low recoil and less muzzle blast than .270. One thing the creedmoor has going for it lately is ammo availability.
How about the 243 to the 6.5 creed
Agree all three are great white tail deer cartridges, mainly due to the fact WT deer are not all that hard to put down, in an other video you could likley add 25-06, 257 Roberts, 308 win , 260 rem, 7mm mauser, 284 win, and a few more in the light recoil, easy kill WT deer out to 300 yards.
I own all three you mention, I carry the 270 ( hand load 143gr eldx 3050fps) primarily because there are elk, moose and big Mule deer to consider in the area too, but I would feel confident with my 7mm08 (hand load 150gr eldx 2800fps), the 6.5 (hand load 129gr LRX 2850fps) would get the job done on any animal too but be my third choice of the three.
Great video. Inside of 400 yards no need for 270. Very reassuring for a guy like me with a bad back, neck and shoulder. Thanks. How about hogs? Any advantage to 7-08 on an animal like that or can I just go with 6.5 for both?
I’m sorry, I do not have any experience with hogs. I heard they are built more stoutly than deer. I imagine they would be fine with a decent bullet.
I have to say this video is a lot less biased against the 6.5 creedmoor then the other video I’ve seen on RUclips called 7mm-08 vs 6.5 creedmoor! That guy owns an loves the 7mm08 and he fudges the numbers towards the 708 and goes as far as saying he can’t find recoil data on 6.5 creedmoor so he’s calling the recoil the same for the 2! This video is a much better comparison! Thanks for your honesty!
The .270 was a pretty ordinary round until a famous writer fell in love with it. Not everybody hunts out west or over bean fields. A short, light, accurate rifle is what I need in the coal regions. I have used a 7x57(My favorite), 6.5x55, and .260 Remington quite often. I plan on a 7MM-08 when I get around to it. 6.5 Creedmore or .270? No advantage there for me.
7mm-08 and 7x57 may as well be twins.
@@fredrickmillstead6397 Not really. I re-barreled a 99 Savage to .260 Remington because a 6.5x55 will not fit. Plan the same with a 7MM-08. I have a .243 99 Savage and sold a 6mm Remington I had on a light Arisaka action I had built. Medium length cartridges feed much better in the small military actions when compared to a .308 based cartridge.
I shoot a Ruger M77 compact 7mm-08 with Barnes TTSX 140gr hand loads for everything - whitetail, muley and elk. Comfortable shooting out 400yds on deer, and 300-350 on elk.
The way I've always looked at it is that the range you expect to shoot at and the size/weight the animal you expect to harvest will dictate caliber and case size.
The longer the range, the bigger the case size; the bigger the animal, the bigger the caliber! Any deviation from that logic sequence is a juggling of compromises for a specific preferred performance quality at the sacrifice of one or more of the other performance factors.
That is a good point. It you are shooting beyond a certain range you should be using a magnum. Otherwise the bullet may not perform. That range is up for debate, and the ethics are also debatable. But, if you plan on shooting at 450 or 500 yards, then you need something bigger than those listed in this video.
In what fantasy is a short action better than the Standard 30-06 length action? it's a 1/4 inch bolt throw difference. I have been shooting a 7mm-08 since 1982, along with a 6.5 x 55, 7mm x 57mm that I hand load for. As for the 270, I got five of them. As you state they are pretty close, you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference shooting game with any of them. It really comes down to how the particular rifle fits you and how well you shoot it. I don't own a Creedmoor for the simple reason, I got a very very good 6.5 x 55 and the Creedmoor dose nothing that rifle will not do. It's all splitting hairs. In the end, you could just shoot a 30-06 and not sweat it, for most of the world's big game. It all has little to do with want. The idea that Round Nose or Flat Base Bullets are no good or useless is just plain laughable.
Really like the 7-08. Its a highly underrated cartridge. With my reloads of 162 gr ELD-X its a great long range performer. Gives me 1000 ft lbs out to 800m. Use a ballistic app and plug the numbers in for that bullet going 2750 fps and ill stack it against a creedmoor any day! I am running a 26" 5r barrel to be fair.
cody william did you build the rifle yourself? What is it!? I must know the specs
Too be fair. Lol
They all work very well. The best gun is the one you shoot well. My two rifles for hunting has always been 3006. and 45 70. 3006 for longer ranges say out to 500 yards and 45 70 for a closer ranges on dangerous game at 200 yards on in, though both are capable of 1000 yard shots. I'm not recoil sensitive so these guns work for me because they will take down anything in the world. If I were recoil sensitive or maybe when I get older I would use the 7mm 08 simply because it competes with the 270 . and the recoil is about like a 30 30. To put things in prospective, my niece killed 9 deer in one season with a 223. Bolt action rifle when she was 12 years old. Shots were 30 yards on out to 130 yards.
Just to say for hunting purpose out of a 270Win you can squeeze a lot more!! For example with some factory ammunition Hornady SST 130gr Surperformance @ 400yards velocity is 2325fps /1560 ftlb of energy/ if zero for 300yards drop is 4.1inch @400!
See Hornady balistique table. Those figures are comparable with my own reload, out of a 24' bergara both with both 130gn VLD and Nosler BT).
Great video :)
Edit, actually drop is 3.6 inches @ 400 yard (in theory :)
Noslers reloading data is optimistic by about 200 fps unless they are using atomic primers
260 Rem is also in that club of the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I have lots of guns, none of which ate either of these, thought of buying a 260 Remington one time bit as you say there is very little difference in b.c. all the calibers that will push a bullet ar 3000 fps. I like the 243 best for white tail sized game and use a 264 mag on bigger game. If I leave Texas I take the 7 mag.
270 in 30-06 case, 7mm in 308 case, which one for your shoulder?
For me the 30-06, i have use it for hogs, deer and elk.
Rem. Model 7 7mm-08. that's my gun. All you will ever need.
anton1949
You sir know what's good. Perfect combination
Sadly Remington rifles are shit now, after being bought out they aren't even worth buying now.
KingLT82
I still buy em’
Great little rifles
They may not be perfect but they’re better than a Mossberg or Savage
@@johnt4060 No they are not better than a Savage, not by a long shot. Their QC is complete trash and they barely sell any rifles compared to Ruger and Savage because of it.
KingLT82 I’ve shot em’ both side by side...
A great round. I have been debating on the 7mm-08. Very similar in ballistics if you compare same ammo maker, like Hornady. The 7mm-08, aka the .284, has been touted as outperforming 6.5 and 308. If you have any good opinions, please let me know. Thanks.
Jack O’Connor wrote about an African safari he went on where his wife carried a 7x57 Mauser (same ballistics as a 7mm-08), (I think) he had a 280 (30-06 necked down to 7mm), and another hunter had a 7mm Mag. He wrote that the effectiveness of all three rounds was identical.
7-08 is NOT the .284, although the diameter is the same. .284 win case is larger in diameter, rebated rim, much greater case capacity (almost 20%). Totally different animal.
they are all .284 cal though.
Of course they are. Not to belabor the point, but 7x57, 7-08, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, and 28 Nosler all use .284 diameter bullets. I think you will find each of them a different breed of cat. 7x57 and 7-08 performance is similar, but the others are considerably different.
The 270 doesn’t have a lot of recoil. My dad just got a Howa 7-08. It shoots smooth as hell. I like it a lot. Might get one next year. Then again, might get one in 308 instead.
GastonGross i want a 308 for a woods gun. But I have my 30-06, not really that concerned about it anymore.
My father was a Kuller in New Zealand during the 50s & 60s. Shot 4000+ Deer. Nearly all with a Mannlicher Schoenauer in 270 win.
Was his name Rex Forrester?
Thanks for replying. I read in one of Rex's books , how a n American ww2 veteran gave him a Mannlicher Schoenauer which the ex soldier had taken from the factory when the yanks invaded Germany. But now thinking about it, I think it was a 6.5 caliber. Apparently there spos to be one of the best rifle makes ever produced. Interesting what your father though of Rex though.
@@daveyboy6985 The Mannlicher rifle with the Schonauer rotary magazine is one of the finest bolt rifles you could ever use. Even Elmer Kieth agreed that they are second only to a double rifle for reliability and that is praise from Caesar. I have half a dozen in various calibres. Tell you a funny story about my Dad & Rex. They both worked for the same government department. My old man used to park in Rex's car park just to piss him off. Rex eventually went and had a cry to the Boss, who talked to my Dad. Rex then bragged around town that HE had sorted it out. My father heard this and very publicly asked Rex to step outside and sort it out once and for all. Rex declined. Dad continued to use his carpark.
@@MBCGRS wow, your very fortunate to have thos rifles. Yes and I remember reading about that rotary magazine they had. They also had the double trigger set up eh? Funny hearing about your dad's working experience with Rex. Is your Dad still alive?
@@daveyboy6985 Most rifles have the twin set trigger arrangement, but not all. I have one in 270 win with a single set and oversize guard for use with gloves. Dad is still kicking around and we are off for a Red deer hunt next week...
Awesome information 👌👏👏
You’ve done research and made thoughtful comments that viewers should appreciate; and at 9:59 you said, “Short actions are better than long actions”, and I missed hearing any evidence to support that opinion. I appreciate your comments and comparisons about recoil; and would point out that in a hunting scenario that might have many repetitive shots recoil could have a cumulative effect compared to deer hunting where shots are infrequent. It seems recoil would have no bearing to some hunters. Many areas have had restrictions that steered hunters to 12 gauge slug guns which recoil quite heavily and hunters have to ignore recoil and absorb it. Some hunters prefer larger calibers and heavy bullets in calibers such as .30-06, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .45-70, .375 H&H, .300 Win Mag, .30-378 and .338 Lapua to name a few. Anyone using these rounds would be absorbing heavier recoil and may require long actions or magnum actions. It seems a short action wouldn’t be best and instead would be unusable. During the past two seasons and ten deer harvests I’ve fired a 290 grain bullet seven times and a 168 grain bullet three times. In no instance was a short action used and in no instance was recoil noticed. Each of those ten was harvested with a single shot from a single shot rifle. Those shots ranged from fifteen yards to three hundred yards. Ballistics tables can be interesting and fun to study and compare. The most important ballistic tables are for the rounds one chooses to hunt with. Hunters may enjoy shooting from a plethora of suitable cartridges. Once cartridges are selected in whatever actions one likes it would be prudent to become familiar with those rounds and enjoy the shooting experience, including the recoil. Whatever round a hunter chooses a good knowledge of the quarry’s anatomy and the hunting skill to be close enough to accurately fire a lethal shot is essential.
This is a fair point, that I did not support the long v short opinion. I started hunting with a 300 Mag. Hunting was fine, but sighting in and target practice with that beast was brutal. Eventually I moved to a 270 and have used that for 10 years. I like the 270 because it works and because I find the recoil manageable when shooting from a bench or at paper targets, when you feel the recoil. I have also shot NRA sporting rifle matches at 200 yards with a 243. Those matches include 4-shot rapid fire strings. I found that working the short action of the 243 was easier than the long action on the 270 to a small but perceptible degree. There is less if a risk of short stroking the short action. All things being equal, I would go with a short action. As you point out, if you want a 30-06 based cartridge or traditional magnum, the you are stuck with long action. For me, long action is not a deal breaker. Short action preferred, but not to the point where I would only use a short action. If I want to shoot 100 to 120 grain bullets at deer, I go short action. Bigger then I go long action. I would not sell a 270 to get something that is short action... but if I had the two rifles already... Anyway, thank you for the comment. Oh, at some point a person has to decide if they are a shooter who hunts (probably want something that has low recoil so you can spend time at the range) or a hunter that shoots (sight in the gun once, go hunting and never worry about recoil again so long as you don’t get hit with the scope). I chose shooter who hunts.
Your response makes sense and if I had been more familiar with you videos then perhaps I would not have raised the point. I have been slammed to the turf a few times and punched a bit within the confines of the ropes; and I suppose I embrace the contact and recoil more than some. Your recoil considerations for range work are quite proper. I prefer shooting the .358 Winchester and .454 Casull. I suppose I just enjoy a bit more feedback. Thank you for responding.
Nosler data for the 6.5 CM is notoriously mild with 140gr bullets. Almost every load book will show more like 2700fps with the 140s.
So the comparison with Sierra data or Hodgdon data from their load books and you'll have a much more valid comparison.
A lot of these fancy rounds are great. I love them all. However If you are the average man and you are lucky enough to get off work and go deer hunting. pick a round you can find on the shelf at you're local sporting goods store. Or a friendly Walmart. I like .308 and 30-06 .270 or 3030. These guns may kick a little. But you can find these rounds any where Ammo is sold. I killed a nice 8 point yesterday with my .308 150 Gr pointed soft point. And now I think I will hunt my next White tail with my 30-06. Happy hunting!
Great comparison.
Great video
Thanks! I’m in the process of adding another rifle for deer hunting and have been contemplating which caliber to choose. It’s between a 25-06 and the 7mm 08. I’ve been going back and forth leaning towards the 08 due to the fact I have plenty of 7mm bullets for hand loading my 280 AI. Video clarified a few facts for me concerning ballistics, etc. Thanks again!
I have another video titled “the ultimate deer rifle cartridge.” That video gets lots of comments. Some are even polite. Lots of votes for 7mm-08. A solid cartridge that performs well and has modest recoil. The 25-06 is a pretty compelling choice, too. Rifles usually have 24” barrels, which gives around 50 fps more than a 22” barrel. Bullets in the 120 grain weight are good for deer and come out fast. If I did not already have a 270 I might get one. I did buy a 7mm-08 with a 20” barrel to compliment my 270...
I own all 3 and like them all ,but the .270 hands down out to 400 yds is ballistically the best for elk and down ,the 7mm08 and 6.5 are enough medicine for deer and great guns for woman or children my daughter shoots the 6.5 creedmoor with no problem .
270 is faster..and by the charts its flatter..do you feel recoil when shooting at a deer? So basically you prefer a short action?
.270 have short action also, it's the .270wsm.
@@jonx20009 the video didnt mention a 270 wsm
The author did said 6.5 creedmoor and 7mm rem are short action and short action are better than long action. It's written toward the end of his summary.
@@jonx20009 did he say anything about a 270 wsm?.. no..I don't get your point..the 6.5 and 7mm08 are indeed sa..but you brought up a cartridge that has nothing to do with this whatsoever..the author is obviously biased in favor of the 6.5..he ignored ballistics,speed and trajectory and claimed it was better than the 270 and 7mm08..
My point is when you asked him "so basically you prefer a short action?", if so there is the .270wsm.
Browning 7mm Remington mag with BOSS on barrell, kicks like a 223, 140 grain bullets, nothing walks off
I thought sectional density was a calculation that compares a bullet's weight to its diameter, not length to diameter.
I believe you are correct. I miss-spoke.
You should have included in your test the 6.5x55mm. This cartridge has been my go to for years and it performs just as good if not better than any of these cartridges in my opinion.
Nosler's reloading book shows the 6.5x55 being only 100-200 fps behind thew 6.5 Creedmoor, and that is probably because 6.5x55 might be shot in an old rifle and therefore reloading manuals might recommend a lower maximum load (the Speer manual has two sets of load data, one for any rifle and one for modern rifles). My opinion is that the ballistics are basically the same, 6.5x55 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Throw in the 260 Rem with the other two as well. The same bullets traveling about the same velocity, all generating about the same amount of recoil. The biggest problem with anything 6.5mm is finding a rifle and ammunition. It isn't all that hard to have a gun shop order a specific gun (being left handed I have some experience with this), so you would have to make some effort to get a 6.5x55. Not saying it isn't worth while...
6.5x55: 140.4gr (DK) at 2854 ft/s 2540ft/lbs. RWS/RUAG.
Try duplicating 6.5 x 55 ballistics with the 156 grain bullet in 6.5 Creedmoor; then you will see the utility of the Swede.
If you consider that hornady offers a 143 ELD-X (hunting bullet) and an advertised velocity of 2700 FPS the 6.5 Creedmoor will exceed both cartridges ballistically and with terminal performance.
brock appleto Hornady also makes a .270 145 grain ELD-X with an advertised muzzle velocity of 2970 fps. 270 still wins.
The Creedmoor gives performance similar to the .270 with less recoil but an equal it is not. You have to compare apples to apples. Put that same ELD-X bullet in a .270 and you get better performance.
the 7mm08 beats 270 because is is shorter case and less recoil , the 7mm08 beats 6.5 because it has a little more energy , might say the 270 has more energy and it does but when hunting shot placement is all that matters so with that said throw out the 270 and now compare the 7mm08 and 6.5 , the 7mmo8 is the exact same but with a little more energy so 7mm08 wins
The 140 grain sst at 3100 fps out of the 270 wins
The bc on the 270 eldx is still like a brick compared to the 6.5. I have my Creedmoor with the 143 eldx loaded to 2850. Up to 500 the 270 hits harder but after that the balistically superior 6.5 takes over
I have two 6.5 creedmoors. The ELD-X in the 143 shoot sub MOA in both rifles.
Im sticking with 270 winchester. Ive never seen 6.5 or 7mm08 bullets at my homehardware. Ive seen 270 so ill stick with whats there. I had a new 7mm08 for 1 month then traded it, bought brand new but had a hell of a time trying to find bullets yet everywere i went 270 was just sitting there. 270 for the win
.308 150 grain with the velocity of 2153 at 400 yards and hitting with 1543 ft. lbs sounds pretty comparable, I'll take the trade of that little extra power, over the drop! Where I've grown up hunting it's only out to 200 yards ethically if your lucky!.... In the woods up here in the NEK it's more often
40- 100 yards.
Factor in cost of ammo and, availability then the 6.5 is eliminated from the talk. A few pounds of recoil is not noticed also it depends on make of rifle and model as well.
Not even close. I was at Scheels yesterday and they have a whole shelf full of options. I've seen factory ammo as cheap as 12.99 a box.
That's and old argument and it doesn't hold up anymore.
Good video!
Hello mate, Could You give me some advice in term of barrel life of these calibers ( 6,5Creedmore, 260rem, 270rem, 6,5x55SE) I would like to choose hunting rifle ( wild boar, roe deer, foxes on longer distances) and I’m wondering about the life length of the barrel.
Thanks ! Take Care and I’m waiting for Your recommendations ;)
What should be the length and diameter of the barrel You will choose for my application?
I would like to hunt with it and play some paper and steel targets on longer distances 300-400-800 meteres
I have no personal experience on barrel wear. From reading a book on NRA High Power shooting. In general, smaller caliber barrels wear out faster than larger diameter barrels, and in general heavy bullets wear out barrels faster than lighter bullets. My guess is that there is no practical difference in expected lifetime for any of the 6.5 cartridges you listed.
bgallaher77 Thanks for Your response. What do You think about some out of the box rifles for my aplication? I was thinking about Tikka T3x Varmint in 6,5Creedmore, 6,5Swedish or 260/270rem. My second option is Tikka T3x Sporter, third option is Savage model 12 VLP, fourth option will be Weatherby Mark V. What do You think, and what seems to You the best choice in term of quality, accuracy ? What will You choose from these abovementioned ones?
I have a Tikka 595, which is one model older than the T3. It is a very nice rifle. A varmint barrel would be good. I also have a savage police rifle, which is good but I like the tikka more. If you handload, the 6.5x55 might get the edge. Lots of 6.5CM factory ammo available. I like the 270 win, but not sure that is a good fit for long range hunting. Lots of power, but you pay for it with recoil. Good luck.
bgallaher77 thank You for Your response. Take care !
How does this translate to elk? I’m waiting for the day that I can get on an elk hunt. I’m thinking creedmoor since I’d want a deer caliber that works on elk and not an elk caliber that works on deer since they don’t have elk in the south east.
Great video you have a short action vs long action....plus you have the 6.5 PRC which would be a better comparison to the 270 imo
Recoil ? When your lining up that deer, your thinking of recoil !! BTW the 7mm-08 is awesome.
I used to think the same, then I bought a 300 WSM. I have never felt recoil while hunting before that rifle. for whatever reason, the felt recoil was like a kick from a horse, more pain than pleasure, and I've shot several 45 cal large hunting rounds and a 50BMG with not recoil dampening. I didn't get auditory exclusion either, heard every shot. I sold the rifle and now looking at the 6.5 CM.
I don’t think about it anymore. My, now sold, 30-06 kicked the crap out of me and I couldn’t accurately hit anything over 200 yards just due to recoil flinch. With my 7-08, I am ringing a 6” gong all day at 500 yards. Now I think of fried tenderloins.
If it kicks like a mule you may not want to shoot it. My wife hates recoil so i wont be getting her something with high recoil
Thomas Waldron
243 would be pretty low recoil
Shaun Haglund
I used to be the same way. I couldn't shoot my 30-06 for anything.
But then I got a shotgun and...
When you shoot 3" slugs in a 5lb 12ga with a fixed mod choke, a 30-06 no longer bothers you
I’ll take either the 270 or the 7-08. Finding the 270 in most stores is a given though the 6.5 is coming along but still not as plentiful the 270. Recoil isn’t something I take into consideration when buying a rifle. To some it may be relevant but not me. I still hunt with both the 308 and the 06 so I don’t have a need for the 6.5.
I kinda like running 110 gr TTSXs out of my .277” bores.
Good video. You don't need to use high precision g(acceleration constant) because g is not a constant. g depends on latitude and height above sea level. g is higher at North and South poles that at the equator.
Shot placement, understanding your bullets construction and maintaining an impact velocity of 2600fps are what matters, for every cartridge there is always going to be one thats better, 6.5-284 smokes the creedmore, a 7mm mag will smoke both etc. the versatility of 7mm and .30 bores is insane
Well said. I’ll take my .308 over most things
Great review. The only thing missing is availability and cost.
270 Win is probably the winner there. Easy to fine, and as low as $14 a box lately. The counter argument is that given the time and expense for hunting, you might as well get premium ammo. That makes cost less of an issue.
I never knew that bullets Rise once they leave the muzzle aiming Straight at your zero@ 300-400 yards. I always thought that Gravity and Drag take effect as soon as the bullet leaves the muzzle
Set Your Rifle Zero for Max Point Blank Range ruclips.net/video/QfkGuN2fQgU/видео.html
The line of sight and the bullets path are not parallel. Remember that the scope is mounted above the barrel. The bullet exits with a trajectory that creates an arc, which lobs the bullet slightly up. The zero is where the arc of the bullet and the line of sight converge as the bullet falls, due to the effect of gravity. Vertically, In effect, rather than just dropping the bullet from the end of the barrel, you toss it up slightly so that it hits an apogee slightly over the line of sight. The velocity of the bullet starts to decrease, rapidly, when the bullet exits the barrel due to atmospheric drag. So, you cannot use freshman physics (assumes a vacuum) to solve the ballistic problem. Rather the velocity is described by a differential equation. So you were initially correct. The bullet has no lift like an airplanes wing. The rise is just due to using a ballistic trajectory where the path of the bullet and the line of sight are not initially parallel.
Why no .260 Remington? It's .264"=6.5mm, been well developed and around longly. Same bc's, better mv. What's the point of wildcat 7mm-08?
Yeah, 6.5mm goes way way back, with the 6.5x55 in use since 1894. In terms of exterior ballistics, the 6.5 Creedmoor fits into the same performance envelope as the 6x5x55 and any of the other 6.5mm short action cartridges. That includes the 260 Rem, it fits into the same performance envelope as the 6.5 Creedmoor, with maybe a slight velocity advantage, but any advantage won't show itself inside 400 yards. As for the 7mm-08, Remington introduced it commercially in 1980, so it is no longer a wildcat. In the video I just truncated the name from 7mm-08 Remington down to 7mm-08.
7-08 hasn't been a wildcat for 40 years. It's very popular where I live. Most major manufacturers make rifles chambered in 7-08 and every ammo company makes ammo for it. The 260rem is pretty much dying. Companies are making the 6.5 creedmoor, including Remington.
Interesting comparison except the 7mm08 has about 25% more penetration power than the 6.5 using the 140grn at 100 yards. Look up banana ballistics tests. How closer or further distances compare?? but with a 25% better penetration window from 100 yards, that would fall into the range of over 90% of deer hunting range. Contrary to the numbers you mentioned
Are they semi auto or bolt action