Project Heat Pump: An EPC and a Heat Pump Survey from Octopus Energy
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- It's time to make the move from gas. I want to replace my boiler with an air source heat pump (ASHP). Join me as I start my journey. In this video I'll be establishing a Heat Transfer Coefficient (HTC) and Heat Loss Parameter (HLP) for my home using the Hildebrand Glow IHD/CAD and Environment Sensor, I'll be getting an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) for my home, and finally Octopus Energy will conduct a full home survey including room-by-room heat loss calculations. Full article here: www.speaktothe...
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Hildebrand's Environment Sensor: shop.glowmarkt...
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Good video thanks for sharing. I have been going through exactly the same steps. 21 year old non-condensing gas boiler to replace. Heat loss survey done, EPC done, planning permission sought and approved on Thursday 25th May, ASHP installation booked in for 30th June with Heat Geek Elite JMR Heating and Plumbing Ltd.
Good luck, you're ahead of me!
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech it's amazing how many people are on exactly the same journey when you start to talk about it and share your experiences.
I know, I waited for my brother in law to go through it last year first so as I could keep an eye on his system over winter. I saw your video last week too talking about it so I knew you were on the journey :)
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech exciting times ahead. We will have to share info and stats. Shout if you need a hand with your planning application as I did mine.
Cheers, I'll see what Octopus get back to me with - that should be early next week. I have a backup location which I *think* would mean it can go down as permitted development, but the preferred location needs permission.
Have you had a look at the heatgeek consumer series? Itll be interesting to hear what MWT they are designing your system to?
One tip, Definitely get rid of those Evohome valves, or leave them on the bedrooms but as temperature limiters only.
Good luck on your ASHP adventure
Yup, I keep an eye on his videos as they're very informative! Octopus tell me some of their guys are heat geek trained too. Evohome is most definitely going to be ripped out and sold on to someone else, and upstairs there'll be non-smart TRVs instead.
We had our ASHP fitted about 20 months ago so were lucky enough to take advantage of the more generous RHI grant scheme. For us it was a bit of a no-brainer too, we had oil fired wet central heating (no gas in the village) and when the oil tank started leaking I found that I couldnt have a replacement fitted in the same place as the original - had to be 1.5m from buildings, sheds, etc and 760mm from the boundary fence. I found it difficult to get quotes for our ASHP, lots of companies never replied back and one wanted a non-refundable deposit to do the quote. Company we went with didn’t charge for the heat loss survey & quote which I liked, and we went with them.
Due to the size of the house we had 2x 9kW heat pumps. A 15kW was the right size but there wasn’t one on the MCS approved list at the time. After I get the RHI grant fully paid (over 7 years), it’ll have only cost me about £2k for the whole system, which I’m happy with. Most of the radiators were replaced as was the hot water tank. Annual running costs are very similar to oil.
Thanks for sharing, I wish the RHI was still available! The £5k scheme in place at the moment barely scratches the surface of the costs!
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech the RHI grant was part of the consideration. We got in just a month before it was withdrawn. Definitely worth having and the payments are index linked so have shot up this year 😀
Perhaps you are not aware that the ASHP grant has been increased from £5k to £7.5k. This changed our situation 🙂@@SpeakToTheGeekTech
I’m a heat pump MCS installer.
I’m sticking with gas. House super insulated EPC has zero recommendations. Heat install along with a new induction hob
Remove gas supply. Actual cost me more per year in running costs not including annual maintenance
There is a zero pay back
Unless I was on oil or LPG
You're missing a trick then if you are able to do your own install, would keep your initial costs way down! For me it's not about the financial pay back - it's a heating system, it's there to heat my home not pay me back monetarily. What I do want to do is heat my home without directly burning fossil fuels and to do that in the most efficient way possible. A heat pump is currently that most efficient way,
This will shock some people! We spent several weeks discussing a heat pump installation with Octopus - and finally got an arrangement for a November install - and paid the deposit. We were *then* handed over to a new Octopus person - who promptly abandoned all our arrangements and tried to get us to agree a mid-January install - *despite* our specific agreement that as pensioners we could not accept a December-February install. We have refused, so Octopus has gone silent. FWIW our first discussions with Octopus started mid-December 2022 and it is now September 2023. In addition, the person concerned had not read a single thing from the negotiated agreement. Clearly, this install is not going to happen despite 12 months of discussion!
That's not good, I hope it gets sorted soon for you
Yes, Octopus has accepted a proper date - although the surveyor then failed to turn up ...@@SpeakToTheGeekTech
I had my hot and cold water tanks removed 14 years ago when everyone was pushing condensing boilers. 2 years ago that boiler broke and got replaced with another more efficient model and now people tell me i need to put a hot water tank back in so i can use a heat pump. Seems that we are going round in circles. If i hadn't have had the tanks taken out then i would have gone with the heat pump but now i am stuck with the condensing boiler for a few more years yet.
Yeah the last 20 years have seen a real trend in combi boilers being installed in place of hot water tanks. On the face of it they were a more efficient way of getting hot water if heating using gas… but things have moved on I guess
I don't think they'd be fitted with an old gravity system (cold water feeder tanks in the loft) anyway
I have an old gravity fed system. They’re going to drain and disconnect those old tanks so as they can be removed. The system will be converted to mains pressure and a new water tank installed.
Very useful your video.
Congratulations !
Is possible to have more information about your Hildebrand Glow measurement's and a companion with EPC ?
If I use my reading's from smart metter/ PV inverter and a good temperature sensor is enough to know my heat losses?
What accuracy have this measurement s?
The temperature sensor used is a very specific one tied in to the Hildebrand / Bright / Glow ecosystem. They have partnered with a company who provide an algorithm against the data it collects in order to provide the heat loss estimates.
This is the main Hildebrand guide and you can click through to the various steps to see more detail such as the “check home fabric score” one:
glowmarkt.com/home/infographics/heat-pump-journey
And their temperature sensor is here:
shop.glowmarkt.com/products/sensors
I don't have any independent way to compare the results of this process other than by seeing it is ballpark similar to EPC results. I've done this more so as I can see how the HTC estimate changes as I make changes to my home. For example, once the heat pump is in and I've added more insulation to my loft where the tanks used to be.
Really interesting video, thanks for sharing. I'm looking at doing similar once we have solar & batteries set up, running nicely & a good amount of data.
May I ask why planning permission is required, please?
I’ll cover the planning permission in the next video I’m putting together :)
Very interested in seeing the follow up video, I work for a company that creates a "hub" for optimal running of the heat pump, would be good to talk to you about this.
Would that be something similar to Homely? My plan at the moment is to hopefully run on the native heat pump controls (Altherma) and rip out Evohome because it’s not really heat pump appropriate. I’m open to using something like Homely but add-ons this year won’t be within budget! Perhaps I’ll save up for 3rd party controls next year.
What name have your app? A link?
I currently have a Tado system so hopefully can still use that. Also have an Eddi for hot water which I use all year. Both work with HA.
I would be cautious about using traditional heating controls with a heat pump. Despite the manufacturer's claims, they don't tend to be as efficient when compared to the heat pump's native controls. In the case of. my Honeywell Evohome, by default it's a binary on/off control (TPI) based on the thermostats calling for heat, whereas a heat pump needs to control itself given temperature reading(s) in various places. Heat pump controls work more like Opentherm controls, only they're not Opentherm. Have a look on the Heat Geek RUclips channel (and check out the Homely videos too!). It is possible to use Tado, but it's not recommended.
I went to fully charged north and met Jim Bennett, head heat pump guru at Octopus. Had a quote of £6,700 bosh. Found our EPC and re quoted at £5,900. Big issues for us is Octopus bill states annual cost for gas is £640. Not cost effective for us. I still don’t understand why this government is allowing gas boilers to be fitted to new build.
Our gas usage is very low too and causes calculation problems for cost-effectiveness, but that'll be in part 2! I'm not counting cost-effectiveness as a decision here though. The boiler needs replacing with something, therefore a heat pump is the most efficient long term alternative available right now within my reach and I hate the talk around pay-back periods for heating - it's purpose is to heat the home, not break-even on installation cost! Putting a boiler in to replace the boiler would be madness in my mind. It is crazy how gas boilers are STILL allowed to be fitted when we're supposed to be phasing out gas. Makes no sense to me at all.
Most new build houses have tiny gardens. There is no space for heat pumps. Condensing boilers are very small in comparison.
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech there are providing a payment plain in about a months time.
I’m fortunate in having space for it, but there are more compact options for smaller premises, split units, etc. You can wall mount them in some circumstances, and there are air to air options too. Failing that there are direct electric options too - many electric alternatives to gas for when a heat pump isn’t appropriate. I know they’re not for everyone but over the last couple of years I’ve now seen them on other homes working great so I have confidence it’ll be suitable for me.
Payment options and costs will be covered in a future video. Not got the full video plan order in place yet, depends on how the story develops!
Do you have microbore piping? Do you have to change any pipes to or from the radiators? I would be most concerned if I had to have my house repiped from within and totally redecorated.
I have 10mm microbore, I thought it was 8mm to be honest but the surveyor measured it and says it’s 10mm. Any smaller than 10mm and they would re-pipe but as it goes they have considered that flow rate in their calculations. It’ll obviously reduce the potential efficiency which is a shame but perhaps I can get the pipes changed when redecorating
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thank you. It is encouraging that the system may work with 10mm. I will follow your moves with interest.
Interesting, I thought 10mm was a no go for heat pumps
I don't think it's advised under most conditions, there will be a drop in efficiency and an increase in the speed that the water must be pumped around the system, which increases noise, pressure and wear and tear I guess. If you're able to rip the pipes out and put larger ones in, it'll be much better. But, I'll let them do what they think is best and we'll see how it runs at the end.
EVM has microbore in the top floor of his house, and was able to have a heat pump fitted. I think it depends on how much microbore you have and where.
We have 15mm throughout and had two pumps fitted in a a push/pull configuration to improve the flow rate round the house
Not a bad video
I don't want to get a heat pump, not until I've :
Super insulated
Replaced all my piping from 10mm to something a bit more substantial
Replaced all my windows for triple glazed ones
Get an MVHR
Get PassivHaus doors too
Only after I've done everything, will I get a heat pump.
It's a fabric first approach
I agree, unless your boiler happens to have a red light flashing on it… :)
Hi, I’ve been given an initial quote by Octopus and they want me to pay a refundable £500 deposit before they come to do the full survey. Is that similar to your experience?
Yes that's correct. The £500 is refundable (plus interest) right up to (I think) two days before your agreed installation date if you change your mind.
Thank you. Deposit paid.
How long from contacting did they get in touch for an initial quote?
For me, I spoke to them on a Saturday at the Full Charged Live event and they called me back on the Tuesday to get more details and provide a quote. They would have called back on the Monday but it was a bank holiday.
I think it was around 10 days, I filled the info out on the website. It’s wasn’t immediate, I got a call out of the blue.
Have you considered an air-to-air heat pump?
Yes I did, but as I already have a wet system it would be quite a destructive process to have the required vents installed downstairs (upstairs is less of an issue as they could run in the loft). But what really made the decision was being told by the boss that I wasn’t allowed to fit vent units in each room because they would look wrong. So despite my hesitation about air to air, they were vetoed early on!
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Ah, yes, I can see that installing vents and ducts everywhere would be an issue.
Why do you need planning permission?
That will be discussed in part 2
Yeah, that was my main headscratcher tbh. Guess we will find out in Part 2
I thought planning permission is required in a few situations non of which I think apply here
If your putting 2 heat pumps in at once
If it faces the highway seen from the road
Forward facing in AONB
If heatpump is within 1m of boundary to neighbour
I had two heat pumps installed as they needed that for the size of the house. Didn’t need planning permission for mine. Another reason (not relevant here) for needing planning permission is if you already have a wind turbine. Noise I guess?