Got my 5x on launch day, mostly by dumb luck. I found out it existed about 20 minutes before it went on sale. That worked out well. Can’t wait to get the 4K on launch day too.
Great interview! As always, thanks for all of your great work, Mike! 8-bit Esquire, it's nice to know that someone else actually likes bob deinterlacing. That's often my preference as well!
Our license plate was stolen and used on an identical model car for a year, for passing over a toll bridge in Seattle. Even though we cancelled the autopay for the bridge, they plate was still in use.
Great interview, got to listen to it while I worked today. I’ve never heard of TBC but it sounds like something I need. I’m trying to digitize some vhs tapes for a friend and have my vcr hooked up composite to an ossc (through an add-on board) and hdmi out to an elgato capture card. Every time the tape screws up a little, my ossc drops and then my capture drops as a result.
How much reported lag? Hope faster video switching. Some TV's with component don't have any issues. Did they mention profiles i can load with some sort of external media device. Wonder if hooking up a Xbox 360 would make any difference in picture. 4k up scaling does that mean the 4k no longer upscale? saving you a bit of lag because it's native resolution? Would of been cool if they just put the splitter on the unit as well. We all will get the splitter anyways because we all have many consoles. Hoping the c1 will benefit from this.
The ability to insert black frames is great future-proofing. Mike is right that we're now just waiting for better displays. OLEDs have brightness limitations, and miniLEDs are usually IPS which can get image retention with BFI. But, there are some current displays, especially smaller sizes, that have no BFI options and will benefit from this already. Even current OLED TVs that have their own BFI can benefit, since built-in BFI on say LG OLEDs adds extra lag. The problem is of course that OLEDs do not have enough nits to handle both BFI and CRT simulation masks at the same time, as Mike pointed out. But again, we'll be ready when more capable options are available in the future.
Any implementation will add extra lag. There's just no way around it. A source device producing 60 hz signal takes ~16 ms to transfer a single frame. If you want to do BFI, it means you have to cut the time the frame is displayed on the screen in half, but if you do that you'll only see the upper half of the frame. The only solution is to add a 16.67 ms delay so that you can buffer a full frame, then draw it on the screen in 8 ms, leaving the remaining 8 for the black frame. It doesn't matter if this process is done by the TV or some external device like Retrotink 4K.
@@boshi9 True, but for some reason the BFI implementation on TVs produces worse lag than the unavoidable minimum--which was my point. The lag added from the Retrotink's implementation is good/low enough. Let me know if you know of any commercial display that supports BFI with this level of lag and not more.
@@Izquierda Well, you've mentioned LG TVs. Those introduce 16 ms of additional lag with BFI enabled (see MLIG for measurements). 16 ms is the theoretical minimum lag for any implementation of BFI when working with 60 hz input signal, due to the reason I've described above. You can't shorten the time a frame stays on the screen if you won't have full frame data until some time in the future, therefore you must add a frame buffer.
In the end it’s not the upscalers that will fail you but the tv or monitor because they are not created equal. Pretty sure all of us went to a friends house and played games on their tv or monitor and they picture looked way better than yours 😅. What’s the best tv brand out there for the 4K retrotink 4k Samsung or LG?
This is a gross simplification of what a TBC is, but basically the issue is that VHS is such a low quality video signal that the timing is not stable - it is not like a camera or video game source where everything is clocked to an oscillator and every line is pumped out in a perfect, consistent manner. When remaining in the analog domain this is no big deal for any CRT, because the lines of video dictate how the electron gun draws those lines. It just happens. But digital TVs do not draw lines; they draw frames, they expect to have the info for a full frame. And since they are not getting that info in a consistent manner, what you get is at best “wobbly” video - where the lines in each individual frame are drawn without reference to eachother. Or at worst, no video at all since many digital devices aren’t robust enough to lock onto the signal. There are different forms of TBC, line TBC or frame TBC, but I won’t go into the differences between those. For what it’s worth, many late-ish model VCRs (90’s or later) already have some form of digital processing applied to the signal prior to the output, and so by nature include some form of TBC. Late model laserdisc players are also mostly digital as well… analog media but more in common with a game console or dvd player at the output stage.
Regarding the marketing discussion, mike more or less says straight up, he has a disproportionate advantage due to his relationship with RetroRGB and my life in gaming. Just think about that statement. If those sites prop him up, disproportionately, what does that mean about what they say about competing solutions?
The behind the scenes stuff of "why are you covering this". See, people such as RetroRGB and macho nacho are picking sides and winners and losers and propping up their preferred things
1:09:20, the world probably isn't a better place for companies tearing eachover down. but, as a practical example. I doubt that Sega could have smashed Nintendo's iron grip on shelf space without some level of mockery in their marketing
Mike Chi is so talented, but I think it was awkward of you pushing him into a corner on multiple occasions on the topic of pointless "drama" from twitter. Technical questions were interesting through.
Viu pior roubar muito mil ricos como porblemo loja nada coisas ninguém não quero novos Viu roubar difícil falou entender 😢$7.500.00 Retro tink 4x😢 poxa Loja tem ricos bem 😂Retro Scaler 2x On R$180.00😂 Manaus tem Centro lojas AV2HDMI ruim composite LED feio R$40.00
2 hours of 8-bit Esquire and Mike Chi? Yes, please!
Got my 5x on launch day, mostly by dumb luck. I found out it existed about 20 minutes before it went on sale. That worked out well. Can’t wait to get the 4K on launch day too.
This is the hype video that you said you never wanted.
But seriously, Mike is a gem. Love hearing from him.
This made the time fly while sorting my SCART cables. Legendary interview!
Woah you have enough SCART cables to need to sort them? #collectorgoals #retrogaming
A common misconception about the retro hobby is that cable management is a chore 😁
This was a great interview with lots of great interview questions, and Mike was a great guest.
I love that you ask tough questions. Love love it. I would talk less and let your guest talk more though. Tip. Love your work man! Keep it up.
Thank you, what a great video! You two are awesome; Mike always being so humble and down-to-earth is really inspiring.
YES! i needed something to listen to while tinkering this evening! Been looking forward to this one! You two are legends!
Incredible interview, thank you! Mike is such a great person all around.
Great interview! As always, thanks for all of your great work, Mike!
8-bit Esquire, it's nice to know that someone else actually likes bob deinterlacing. That's often my preference as well!
Dr. Chi in the house
This was a pleasure to watch and listen. Great stuff! Mike is a true scholar, and the time and energy he puts into his craft shows.
Go blue! So awesome to find out you're in Michigan as well! Love hearing from Mike as well :).
Right on! Go Blue!
Love what Mike is doing! Thanks for the interview
Thanks for watching!
Our license plate was stolen and used on an identical model car for a year, for passing over a toll bridge in Seattle. Even though we cancelled the autopay for the bridge, they plate was still in use.
At the end of a shit day, this is a real treat! Thanks to you both!
This was great, thank you both!!
Great interview. This was fun and informative.
Ah, making Dallas proud , hell yeah.
this video was insane. it was barely uploaded 11 minutes ago, but trust me bro
Great interview, got to listen to it while I worked today. I’ve never heard of TBC but it sounds like something I need. I’m trying to digitize some vhs tapes for a friend and have my vcr hooked up composite to an ossc (through an add-on board) and hdmi out to an elgato capture card. Every time the tape screws up a little, my ossc drops and then my capture drops as a result.
Im halfway in, great interview, do they talk about compatibility with the PS3?
Fantastic interview
That was great.
I would've listened for hours more.
Great job both of you👍
Glad you liked it!
How much reported lag?
Hope faster video switching. Some TV's with component don't have any issues.
Did they mention profiles i can load with some sort of external media device.
Wonder if hooking up a Xbox 360 would make any difference in picture.
4k up scaling does that mean the 4k no longer upscale? saving you a bit of lag because it's native resolution?
Would of been cool if they just put the splitter on the unit as well. We all will get the splitter anyways because we all have many consoles.
Hoping the c1 will benefit from this.
Very good video.
Thank you very much!
Someone get Mike some top notch Bourbon!
Mike is so modest, he was probably drinking some top shelf Pappy 12 year
When does the RetroTINK 4K talk start?
It’s in there, trust me
1:21:26
@@SciGuy831thanks!
The ability to insert black frames is great future-proofing. Mike is right that we're now just waiting for better displays. OLEDs have brightness limitations, and miniLEDs are usually IPS which can get image retention with BFI. But, there are some current displays, especially smaller sizes, that have no BFI options and will benefit from this already. Even current OLED TVs that have their own BFI can benefit, since built-in BFI on say LG OLEDs adds extra lag. The problem is of course that OLEDs do not have enough nits to handle both BFI and CRT simulation masks at the same time, as Mike pointed out. But again, we'll be ready when more capable options are available in the future.
I will use this with my aw3423dw monitor and the switch :)
@@maegnificant for use with modern consoles that don't need filters, this would be a pretty good combo.
Any implementation will add extra lag. There's just no way around it. A source device producing 60 hz signal takes ~16 ms to transfer a single frame. If you want to do BFI, it means you have to cut the time the frame is displayed on the screen in half, but if you do that you'll only see the upper half of the frame. The only solution is to add a 16.67 ms delay so that you can buffer a full frame, then draw it on the screen in 8 ms, leaving the remaining 8 for the black frame. It doesn't matter if this process is done by the TV or some external device like Retrotink 4K.
@@boshi9 True, but for some reason the BFI implementation on TVs produces worse lag than the unavoidable minimum--which was my point. The lag added from the Retrotink's implementation is good/low enough. Let me know if you know of any commercial display that supports BFI with this level of lag and not more.
@@Izquierda Well, you've mentioned LG TVs. Those introduce 16 ms of additional lag with BFI enabled (see MLIG for measurements). 16 ms is the theoretical minimum lag for any implementation of BFI when working with 60 hz input signal, due to the reason I've described above. You can't shorten the time a frame stays on the screen if you won't have full frame data until some time in the future, therefore you must add a frame buffer.
Mike can you add a zero delay option to tink 5x pretty please?
In the end it’s not the upscalers that will fail you but the tv or monitor because they are not created equal. Pretty sure all of us went to a friends house and played games on their tv or monitor and they picture looked way better than yours 😅. What’s the best tv brand out there for the 4K retrotink 4k Samsung or LG?
So its not native 4k?
1:21:30 why the 4k
I play PS3 with a mClassic into a 4k Gamer Pro in the low setting and it makes the PS3 look loads sharper.
Yeah, I can’t wait to see those mClassic comparison shots start rolling out after release
When do they start talking about the retroTink4K? Did they mention anything about playstation 2 and how it's gonna benefit from the tink 4K?
It’s all in there. Trust me.
1:21:26
This is a gross simplification of what a TBC is, but basically the issue is that VHS is such a low quality video signal that the timing is not stable - it is not like a camera or video game source where everything is clocked to an oscillator and every line is pumped out in a perfect, consistent manner.
When remaining in the analog domain this is no big deal for any CRT, because the lines of video dictate how the electron gun draws those lines. It just happens. But digital TVs do not draw lines; they draw frames, they expect to have the info for a full frame. And since they are not getting that info in a consistent manner, what you get is at best “wobbly” video - where the lines in each individual frame are drawn without reference to eachother. Or at worst, no video at all since many digital devices aren’t robust enough to lock onto the signal.
There are different forms of TBC, line TBC or frame TBC, but I won’t go into the differences between those.
For what it’s worth, many late-ish model VCRs (90’s or later) already have some form of digital processing applied to the signal prior to the output, and so by nature include some form of TBC. Late model laserdisc players are also mostly digital as well… analog media but more in common with a game console or dvd player at the output stage.
This is a really good explanation, thank you!
Regarding the marketing discussion, mike more or less says straight up, he has a disproportionate advantage due to his relationship with RetroRGB and my life in gaming. Just think about that statement. If those sites prop him up, disproportionately, what does that mean about what they say about competing solutions?
The behind the scenes stuff of "why are you covering this". See, people such as RetroRGB and macho nacho are picking sides and winners and losers and propping up their preferred things
Chinese gray market parts sources for the tink 4k, lol
Dokta Chi, master of pixels
1:09:20, the world probably isn't a better place for companies tearing eachover down.
but, as a practical example.
I doubt that Sega could have smashed Nintendo's iron grip on shelf space without some level of mockery in their marketing
That’s a really good point, but we’re talking about massive corporations vs a guy in this garage
Mike Chi is so talented, but I think it was awkward of you pushing him into a corner on multiple occasions on the topic of pointless "drama" from twitter.
Technical questions were interesting through.
I have foot-in-mouth disease.
We all do brother
Why is the clown emoji above his head?
why the clown face by mike chi's face in the thumbnail????? subtle insult?
Go follow mike on twitter. It’s his calling card.
Viu pior roubar muito mil ricos como porblemo loja nada coisas ninguém não quero novos
Viu roubar difícil falou entender
😢$7.500.00 Retro tink 4x😢 poxa
Loja tem ricos bem
😂Retro Scaler 2x On R$180.00😂
Manaus tem Centro lojas
AV2HDMI ruim composite LED feio
R$40.00
I'm with you 8-bit. 1080p w/Generic 4:3 profile with 5X overscan is the way I've done it the past year or so.