That was all a ploy to flush out the mole on the ship lol he was putting on a act for the whole crew the only ones who knew about it were Him and Janeway and maybe some others.
Damn it's like every episode. In real Trek when someone argued with an order it was rare and it meant serious shit was going down. Doing it in all these eps lowers the impact.
@@ammosophobia Yep. Roddenberry was about avoiding everything seen in STD.(pew pew action scenes, too much melodrama, no cursing and a serious family friendly environment, all of which STD doesn't have and much more) You can see it in the Star Trek documentary series on youtube.(its really long but explains a lot about the series and has no STD in it)
I still remember the episode where Riker refused to give Picard valuable information due to Rikers loyalty to Admiral Pressman. It was a great impact because it was the first time any tension like this happen and it was 7 seasons into the show.
Jesus, no wonder by the time we see Pike in the Cage pilot, he's already talking about wanting to get out of Starfleet. Hell, the people in the Mirrorverse have a greater respect for the chain of command, and they kill each other for promotions in rank.
This was what I hated the most about the show, (Discovery)Pike was the best character by far and actually felt like he was from Star Trek(even if he didn't feel like the original Captain Pike). But they just disrespected him constantly and made him seem weak and impotent. I'm dreading to see what they do with Captain Picard because you know they'll almost certainly have this happen to him too and the Picard from TNG would never have put up with this.
@577AllWell but then turns out he was a space nazi. thats all white guys can be shown as now, a doormat or a nazi. the weird thing is the actor playing lorca is the doormat who posts leftist garbage on his twitter. and the one playing pike is a decent guy who could do a decent job being a star trek captain.
Tim1000064 - Picard Series is doomed already. CBS/Kurtzman destroyed Spock...so I fully expecting Picard to end up a completely broken and failed character by the end of the series.
That's one of the most ridiculous statements in all of this cockamamie nonsense. The whole point of any chain of command is to know who outranks who and who has what job. That way you know who to talk to if you need things done. It literally boggles the mind with how absurd it all is.
@@pittland44 although, in this case he's captain (above all of them)and they probably know each other's ranks, so its more like he's making a statement of how he thinks that input from any member of the bridge crew should be taken into consideration equally.
@@daphne4407 See I think there are better ways to communicate that concept to the crew. What STD does, consistently, is undermine the chain of command. Also bear in mind, Starfleet is the military.
No real officer would have put up with Mikey's constant insubordination and insolence, her attitude alone destroys any immersion in the show by it's self.
You cant say if any of the writers are rewatching their show dont see how preschool-ish this shit is? This is the worst spaceship crew I have ever seen! They wouldnt survive in space for a day!
Its intentional identity politics. People complained that the only straight white guy on the show was the villain, creating the subtext that white males in positions of authority were evil backstabbers not to be trusted. So they doubled down and brought in a good white guy, but still just to use him as a doormat to show that white guys in positions of authority can and should be challenged by strong womyn. In background characters, the white guys are also incompetent and have to be corrected by womyn.
There is a retired Navy Captain in my neighborhood. I would never think of interrupting him or probably question anything he asks of me. The man oozes leadership and power.
@@UEDCommander yeah but they'd still be around after.... And you'd have to listen to them all that time. ...And as we now know they don't have airlocks on all outer ship's doors So Oops.....
What would have made this video perfect would have been including Data's dressing down of Worf for insubordination, but they end the scene calmly and still as friends, for comparison's sake.
If anyone would have spoken to Picard, Kirk, Sisko or, shit, even Janeway like that they'd have shut them down with a look, dragged them into the ready room and ripped them a new one. Ridiculous. No CO would have put up with that kind of insubordination. Although Sisko would have just probably knocked them the fuck out.
Janeway is actually on the worse end of people you want to try that on. Behind Sisko because like you say he might straight up actually knock some sense into you.
Remember the scene where Commander Data (acting captain) had to lecture Worf because of a sigh in front of the crew? Yet here they talk over, disrespect, and ignore who is supposed to be the most highly decorated starfleet captain in history... why? Because his real purpose is to be the white male doormat that the leftie-squad can shit on, to show how powerful they are and to disrespect white guys in positions of authority which is the real agenda pushing.
I recall a TOS episode where there was a situation and the full of himself helmsman at the time (not Sulu) suggested that the Enterprise uses proton torpedoes. Kirk replied “I’ll take that under advisement...when this ship becomes a democracy.” Which was his polite way of saying “Sod off! I’m the damn captain!” TOS Kirk would, in my mom’s words to my brothers and me, slap the black off of Mikey Spock if she got up in his face.
BAILEY: Sir, we going to just let it hold us here? We've got phaser weapons. I vote we blast it. KIRK: I'll keep that in mind, Mister Bailey, when this becomes a democracy. THE BALANCE OF TERROR
[In "The Balance of Terror", Stiles was bigoted against Spock, and Stiles was guilty of insubordination toward Spock (more than once), but Spock ignored him. Kirk told Stiles to leave his bigotry in his quarters. Stiles got off lightly, IMO. Kirk also gently reminded Stiles that he should leave the past behind (Stiles' ancestors had been killed in the old Romulan war.]
Well everyone who shut Worf down was a ranking officer anyway. And his suggestions were always just kill anything that moves. And despite Worf getting consistently shut down, the ranking officers still didnt try their hardest to make him feel like an idiot. You, the audience, knew that Worf's suggestion was bad but no one in the show says that. They just suggest an alternative means of action. In Discovery, it's the lower ranked crew members talking down to the commanding officer. And they don't even try to be civil about their disagreements.
Worf was akways prone to "shoot first" strategies, it's just how he was raised. Superior officers don't dismiss his comments, they simply try to go through the more peaceful routes first
@@thegrimmretails3777 Given that this is meant to be the enlightened 23rd century I somehow doubt starfleet is naming their medals after assholes. That's the thing, star trek takes place in the future, not the present.
It's amazing that Starfleet functions in Disco ball. Clearly producers don't understand importance of command, or are lazy by artificially inflating drama.
Pike needs to take a page from archers book and utilise the airlock every now and again. I'm sure the crew would very quickly stop butting in when they're reminded they need air to speak.
when everyone says pike was one of the only good things in the show, i see all this in my mind and think did these people even watch the same thing as me?
He was when he actually got to do something. A lesser man would have been buried in that many people walking all over him. But people still wanted more Pike even when it was all over. That says a lot about how the man managed to reach an audience when the entire cast and writing room was trying to bring him down.
Now listen...these scenes taken out of context would certainly make Pike seem to be taking a lot of flack, sass, criticisms from the crew. Watching them without the rest of scenes certainly makes him seem weak. What’s missing are the multitudes of asides, events, and storylines where he gives orders and the crew follows and where the crew respect his leadership and are deferential to him. There is a reason why people have praised Mount’s depiction of Pike and why he’s getting his own show.
yup, and also ignores the context of Pike being a "guest" Captain of the Discovery, of an established crew, who were just a wee bit hurt by a previous CO. Pike himself knows that, and references that. He is there to lead a mission, and a mission which many of them end up being more experienced/knowledgable in than he is. What people are taking issue with is very often Pike accepting "yup, they know better" and accepting when he does not have the knowledge. Essentially, people are taking issue with the Captain knowing his limits, admitting when he's wrong/doesn't know something, allowing people more knowledgeable to take the lead when necessary. Wonder why they have an issue with that though....may be a hint in the title of this video.
I can count the number of times the tng crew were insubordinate while mentally stable on a single hand (and that was 7 seasons), I find it hard to take seriously if there are dozens of times when the crew aren't following orders.
"Now listen...these scenes taken out of context would certainly make Pike seem to be taking a lot of flack, sass, criticisms from the crew. Watching them without the rest of scenes certainly makes him seem weak." Well, it's that and the fact that there is such a _huge mass _*_of_*_ these scenes._ I wouldn't put it on him, though. This particular crew come across as totally unprofessional. There is _zero_ professionalism from any of them.
All these arrogant women wouldn't last a day. reminds me of that survivor show where it was men versus women and the women wandered around and cried and fought and went hungry.
That show you were referring to is called The Island with Bear Grylls, Season 2 to be precise where it was men vs women, and there's plenty of clips from it on RUclips.
I bailed after episode 3 of season 1. Watching this, I'm glad I did. I knew it was bad from other clips, but this is both unbelievably bad writing and sickening to watch what they've done to the concept of starship command structure. Anson Mount is a good actor and deserved better for his character. I doubt if any writer on this show ever had military experience or were even in the scouts. Chain of command seems to be a foreign concept in this alternate reality. Following orders is so patriarchal, don't ya know.
Yep, I stopped at the tardigrade episode with the dumbest death in TV history after they made everyone but Burnham temporarily idiotic or antisocial in order to make Burnham look better. That is the mark of a genuinely stupid person on script duty.
Same goes for Lower Decks and is infinitely better than Discovery. It's too bad Paramount can't make McMahan the new showrunner for the whole franchise.
Holy crap, do the people writing this show know anything about how a chain of command works in a military-style organization? Pike comes off as weak, someone who you can simply walk over all the time. In every other Star Trek show, the captain assembles his senior staff, they pitch ideas, the captain listens and makes a decision, and if someone starts to get a little too argumentative, the captain shuts it down, and the subordinate -- usually it's Worf -- goes, "Yes, sir." That's how you effectively command. After what I just saw, I wouldn't trust the Discovery crew to make a mail run to Rigel 3, never mind doing stuff that could determine the fate of the entire quadrant.
John Rust: but you're forgetting they have all superhero kickass female power Michael Burham the one who can do the job of everybody and way more better...!
@@johnrust592: I have this realization right away... According to this series the Spock we all know wouldn't be the same with the influence of Mickey, the same Spock who did trash the timeline in the first movie of Abrams that lead to the crap of STD. So in a way Mickey Spock is the culprit of the Bad Reboot!!
Do you guys realize that the Starfleet in their universe isn't supposed to feel like military? That leadership-style hasn't been up-to-date for the past 30 years. Yes, it's rude to interrupt people but listening to other opinions doesn't make you seem weak. One person alone is never able to make the right decisions all of the time and tbh the fact that his crewmates dare to speak to him in that way only makes it clear how good of a captain he really is. People work best if they are comfortable where they work and like the people that they work with
This is why I struggle to understand the people asking for a Pike show.. the actor was fine, but he was playing a Captain in a badly written script every episode. A lot of the other actors I have no problems with either, it's what they're being made to SAY. Presumably a Pike show would be by the same moronic writing/production team.. I guess it's a desperate grab at some sort of Trek normality after seeing him on the Pacman-saucer Enterprise at the end. I only hope like hell Patrick Stewart's trek bollocks-o-meter is working well..
I think part of the reason disco feels so different is because of the constant, unaddressed insubordination. It’s a military operation. They’d get kicked out of the actual navy if they spoke to a superior officer the way they constantly do here.
I think a collaborative officer is more realistic than shown in media, but the way he is presented as too ridgid and by the book, naive and weak. There is only one scene where he loses his temper and checks the crew and he should have at multiple times put people in their place. That is what a command structure is about. Great example: Mal from Firefly. Captain Ben Sisco. If you want to get nerdy, Optimus Primal vs Ratrap in Beast Wars season one.
And some of the cutting him mid speech is actually a sign of, “I got your back. Let’s go for his thing.” This series has opened Star Trek to me more than Voyager or Deep Space Nine in the 90s. The writing is bit contemporary and staccato, but they’re trying to woo in the newer generation. Not a Trekkie, myself but it’s good when new people come in to the fold. New ideas and culture can develop. Isn’t that’s what the series is all about. To head out to space and discover new and exotic things and deepens understating of each other... let’s us remember that.
@@wyleong4326 Highlighting insolence and disrespect as a way of attracting a new generation of viewers is pretty sad commentary on newer generations. Especially since that would get you demoted, disciplined or even fired if you did that in a military, quasi military or civilian job. Starfleet still has a chain of command. Also they never did this to Georgiou and especially haven't done this to Burnham since she became captain.
It's hard to take lessons from this show b/c it's teaching us faulty lessons and values that will make it so we never get anything done and less likely to succeed, but at least we'll feel good about it
I've seen so many people defend this show and at first I was confused as to why, but the common trait amongst these people was their disdain for TOS, TNG, VOY, and DS9 (ENT isn't really brought up) so it sort of makes sense. Those who like nuTrek dislike old Trek.
I am a fan of previous Treks but I haven't seen Discovery. After reading through some of the comments a thought occurs to me. Gene Roddenberry was often criticized (even by the writers) for not having enough drama and conflict among the crew. They thought he was sanitizing it. Now I think his choices make a lot of sense when you remember that a real crew can't have conflict among officers all the time just for the sake of drama. He wasn't sanitizing, he was being real.
I get why they don't trust their Captain, because of their previous ones they are a lot more cautious and don't want him to have the upper hand. They may respect someone but their past experiences with a Captain have not been well so they don't want to rely on Pike. They don't know if they can trust him. For everyone who is saying this show is terrible and disrespectful or whatever you fail to see that people who get betrayed don't trust the next person who just comes in and tries to take control. You people are insensitive and need to just leave this show alone.
1:15 The world will end if Captains have to thank their soldiers for following his orders. And you would never talk back to the captain's order even though you are right, you can discuss about situations during the briefing session or privately but not when the captain is making a decision, You can get decommisioned from duty for that or in other word, get yeeted.
I knew that STD is bad. I have dropped it mid season 2. I know how ridiculous the "let me tell you about my feelings" moments are. Despite all that, I.....I did not anticipate, I could not have anticipated the scene @ 04:19. I have no words for it. It is so bad that I am speechless! I want to gouge my eyes out! And that awful acting!!
Wow. Couple this with the alleged on set altercation that required CBS’ HR department to intervene (not speculation. It was reported in the press) and his barely concealed contempt on a recent Trek panel, it’s no wonder Anson Mount wants no part of STD or Star Trek anymore. Hey, Anson, there’s room on the Orville!
Makara deadline.com/2019/03/anson-mount-star-trek-discovery-exit-rebecca-romijn-altercation-director-season-2-1202577741/. Your welcome. And though Deadline and CBS’ spin machines are in overdrive, I’ve been in enough workplaces to know that when HR gets involved, it’s serous.
@@christopherjones5446 read the article...he accidently hit the director when rehearsing his hand actions for a scene...and nothing came of it (ive been in enough workplaces to know that all accidents have to be reported, reguardless of verasity)...he also left because his character was only meant to be in one season Careful you don't pull a muscle with all that stretching your doing there buddy
No stretching required. The article is in Deadline.com, which is owned by the same company that owns Rolling Stone, Variety, and at least 20 other digital and print brands. The article does not say, "... he accidentally hit the director ...". It does not use the word "accident" at all. It uses the word "altercation". It says, "... Mount was involved in an on-set physical altercation ...".
@@dandeliondown6010 " The incident reportedly stemmed from a discussion of a scene, and Mount gesticulating and pointing, which was the action of the scene in question. In acting out that scene before the cameras were turned on, the actor’s hands made physical contact with the director. Quickly after the incident occurred, it was reported by the production to CBS HR, which reviewed the matter. The department spoke to all parties involved, including Mount and the director, to determine what happened. Based on those discussions and the inquiry, the incident did not result in any disciplinary action against the actor. Even before HR got involved, Mount apologized to the director and work on the episode continued. The incident is said to have zero to do with Mount leaving Discovery; one source close to the production told Deadline that “we would love to find a way to work with Anson again.”"....the article clearly implies this was an accident. This is a nonstory...stop trying to spin it.
Ah, yeah!, thats exactly what I like the most about Star Trek, their total LACK of respect for their captains :D Just as I love how Jedi like Luke Skywalker throws away their lightsabers with disrespect
let the captain talk. they could've let him finish what he has to say first 😔 it's not wrong to voice out opinions/suggestions, but there's a commanding officer for a reason. the captain exists for a reason, and the crew should know when to draw the line. poor pike, must've been hard to deal with a new crew. ANDDD that's why i can't wait to see his dynamics with his crew in SNW!! i hope it's reallyyy better than this aaaaaa
The women in nutrek are so fucking amazing that they don't need to be respectful of men...they aren't like the capable women on voyager. And it's a shame because Pike is the only character besides Saru that I like...they are the only ones that act like starfleet.
Pike was supportive of constructive discourse but demanded every instance of it came with a suggested solution/alternative. He was the best leader who trusted his team, they trusted him back for it. That's synergy. That's true leadership. Well written, well portrayed. Out of context is out of context and context is for kings chile I mean you managed to omit the scene in which he makes that clear almost verbatim. Next!
This is a symptom of a greater problem of popular culture and the media reinforcing this sense of entitlement and lack of respect of authority on the part of millennials. Almost Every ad for a product I’ve seen has some phrasing of telling young people that the rules don’t apply to them and that in order to succeed, they have to defy superiors. This new trek show Picard looks like more of the same.
2:15 He would have been thrown in the brig if that was any other non STD captain. This captain was shaking in his boots and had to have burnham take care of it.
There is absolutely no respect for authority in this series. It completely eliminates the point of having a chain of command. 0:55 This scene just shows just how much feminism runs this show. 3:23 If this were under literally any other captain in all the other series, they would be relieved of duty.
The more i listen to his dialogue, the more he sounds more professional and reasonable than any of the crew blatantly disregarding and disrespectfully questions instead of proposing a better option to the Captain. The most a decent Starfleet Officer might do is resign their duties in protest. (aka) "I will not follow order that might jeopardize the lives of the crew or others" It seems everyone in Discovery thinks they work at Starbucks sayin "it's pronounced Ventee and it means BIG"
I thought Cpt Pike was the only white male that got fair treatment on this show. I was wrong. They nearly all , especially Burnham interrupt him mid sentence. God I hate this show
"I wanted to thank you. For following orders and maintaining our cover." Like, seriously? How exactly did these children pass Starfleet Academy? Unprofessional, oblivious to chain of command and rude to the captain, arrogant, unable to separate emotion from job professionalism.
i have to say didn't pay attention to that, but the entire show from season 1 to 4 was like "shut the f*ck up captain". Georgiu was the only one that punished someone for disobeying and attacking a CO.
They never talked to Georgiou like this. When Burnham tried that shit she was thrown in the brig. They especially didn't do this once Burnham became captain in the 4th season.
Remember when Paris disobeyed Janeway's orders and got locked up for 30 days and got demoted to ensign?
I remember, and all of that was great stuff. That was real Star Trek, not this woke garbage.
That was all a ploy to flush out the mole on the ship lol he was putting on a act for the whole crew the only ones who knew about it were Him and Janeway and maybe some others.
@@vincewilliam5848 not that time.. The time he did the right thing in saving the ocean
@@pittland44 found another clown who hasn't realized Star Trek has always been """woke"""
@@napalaprentice If you have another explanation for the drastic decline in quality of star trek I am all ears. 👂👂👂
Damn it's like every episode. In real Trek when someone argued with an order it was rare and it meant serious shit was going down. Doing it in all these eps lowers the impact.
They wanna be edgy all the time. We have to have everything now, now, now. This is JJ ADHD Trek.
Wasn't Roddenberry all about avoiding conflicts among the crew?
@@ammosophobia Yep. Roddenberry was about avoiding everything seen in STD.(pew pew action scenes, too much melodrama, no cursing and a serious family friendly environment, all of which STD doesn't have and much more)
You can see it in the Star Trek documentary series on youtube.(its really long but explains a lot about the series and has no STD in it)
I still remember the episode where Riker refused to give Picard valuable information due to Rikers loyalty to Admiral Pressman. It was a great impact because it was the first time any tension like this happen and it was 7 seasons into the show.
It's literally just complaints and petty bickering!!! Try Star Trek Renegades for some Real good Trek
“Are you implying that I would disobey your orders?” As he squares up to fight smh
That was the most painful scene of them all, and STD fans still manage to twist this into a character-trait
Thank god a strong black woman was there to de-escalate the situation and put the huwhite man in his place hyuk hyuk
I wonder how long this crew would last under Picard or Janeway. Or even Data.
Janeway would slit their throats
@@ammosophobia Especially if they messed with her before she had her coffee.
@@Johnny-rx4hs She'd pour a scalding hot pot of coffee on their face and demand they make another.
Sisko would not have any of it. He even intimidates a Klingon, and made a Jem'Hadar jump
TNG Picard? 5 minutes. Picard Picard? He'd get on his knees and repent for his penis.
Jesus, no wonder by the time we see Pike in the Cage pilot, he's already talking about wanting to get out of Starfleet.
Hell, the people in the Mirrorverse have a greater respect for the chain of command, and they kill each other for promotions in rank.
Well...
A) this takes place AFTER "The Cage".
B) these are very much out of context.
Watch the entire show and you'll see how awesome Pike is.
@Inept Robot Well, if you insist but once your done you should give the second season a watch...after washing your hands of course.
Walmart employees do the same thing now, the I.S.S. isn't special.
This was what I hated the most about the show, (Discovery)Pike was the best character by far and actually felt like he was from Star Trek(even if he didn't feel like the original Captain Pike). But they just disrespected him constantly and made him seem weak and impotent. I'm dreading to see what they do with Captain Picard because you know they'll almost certainly have this happen to him too and the Picard from TNG would never have put up with this.
@577AllWell but then turns out he was a space nazi. thats all white guys can be shown as now, a doormat or a nazi.
the weird thing is the actor playing lorca is the doormat who posts leftist garbage on his twitter. and the one playing pike is a decent guy who could do a decent job being a star trek captain.
TV Host: "If you choose Door #1, you play a Nazi. If you choose Door #2, you play a doormat."
Actor: "I choose Door #3: I'm outta here, and I ain't coming back unless there are some very creative conversations."
Tim1000064 - Picard Series is doomed already. CBS/Kurtzman destroyed Spock...so I fully expecting Picard to end up a completely broken and failed character by the end of the series.
@@jibroniuk3604 I think that will probably happen too. I most likely won't watch the series after the first episode if it does anything I don't like.
Captain Picard is white and male, so its important he learns to be quiet and let the women of color speak, and accept his privilege already!
1:38 "Skip your ranks, they don't matter." I think some of the crew took that to heart.
Imagine working your way up to lieutenant or even lieutenant commander and your captain says it doesn’t matter all that hard work dedication
That's one of the most ridiculous statements in all of this cockamamie nonsense. The whole point of any chain of command is to know who outranks who and who has what job. That way you know who to talk to if you need things done. It literally boggles the mind with how absurd it all is.
@@pittland44 although, in this case he's captain (above all of them)and they probably know each other's ranks, so its more like he's making a statement of how he thinks that input from any member of the bridge crew should be taken into consideration equally.
@@daphne4407 See I think there are better ways to communicate that concept to the crew. What STD does, consistently, is undermine the chain of command. Also bear in mind, Starfleet is the military.
The insubordination for superior officers on Discovery is outta control!
Notice, too, it's almost always the female officers. After all, why obey those "stupid" male officers when you're so obviously superior to them?
@@kettch777 This conversation's over. You're dismissed. This is the end of the conversation. You can't. The conversation's over. That's the end.
@@kettch777 ‘almost always’. Meaning men are doing it too, but you’re only bothered by the women doing it. Classic sexism right there
@@DoctorOctobussy Do you have an example?
@@pittland44 Spock, stand down!
Spock: I cannot!
No real officer would have put up with Mikey's constant insubordination and insolence, her attitude alone destroys any immersion in the show by it's self.
You mean Michael, not 'Mikey' and people need to step down when they are wrong.
@@KenzWing2002 It's Mikey Spock.
@@KenzWing2002 true but you do not disobey your superior and you certainly do not interrupt them.
If I was Pike she would of been busted back to cadet and scrubbing toilets on andor by now
@@IsaiahINRI: this show is for people who never had and will step on a military base... that's for sure.
Every time they shut Pike down, it's not only a middle finger to the fans, but to TOS.
My Thumbs Up for your comment was the 23rd so far. A lot of people can see what Discovery is doing to TOS and its fans. It really stinks.
Dandelion Down So Say We All!
Middle finger to the only character in DISCO I've liked.
@@KY0UJlN now there's a reboot done right. (BSG)
@@richardched6085 Really? I tried watching that and it felt like preachy nonsense. It actually gave me almost as big a headache as Discovery.
You cant say if any of the writers are rewatching their show dont see how preschool-ish this shit is? This is the worst spaceship crew I have ever seen! They wouldnt survive in space for a day!
Given how most of the show's writers only worked on CW dramas, not even the DC ones, that can't be a surprise.
Its intentional identity politics. People complained that the only straight white guy on the show was the villain, creating the subtext that white males in positions of authority were evil backstabbers not to be trusted. So they doubled down and brought in a good white guy, but still just to use him as a doormat to show that white guys in positions of authority can and should be challenged by strong womyn. In background characters, the white guys are also incompetent and have to be corrected by womyn.
@@BoopSnoot um
No one but our encyclopedia Major Grin watches this garbage twice.
Maybe just after Stargate Universe.
There is a retired Navy Captain in my neighborhood. I would never think of interrupting him or probably question anything he asks of me. The man oozes leadership and power.
Court martials? Reprimands? Nah.
Just Space the Crew .....
@@Kz-ds8gb
Agony booth is an efficient way of enforcing discipline
@@UEDCommander yeah but they'd still be around after.... And you'd have to listen to them all that time. ...And as we now know they don't have airlocks on all outer ship's doors So Oops.....
@@Kz-ds8gb
I think they will learn the lesson eventually. Could keep them there until they do.
Dude she started a literal war and got back on board, she doesn't get reprimanded for shit
What would have made this video perfect would have been including Data's dressing down of Worf for insubordination, but they end the scene calmly and still as friends, for comparison's sake.
Or when data was placed in command of the Sutherland and ripped ltcmdr Hobson in front of the whole damn bridge crew
Suru feels like the best person to do that in this.
"I'm the only white heterosexual male here..."
"Captain, you're wrong!"
"Oh?"
"There's the wheelchair guy!"
"Ah, right, ensign Ironside..."
Ensign Wheeler
Ensign Rollins
Burnham: "And as a disabled officer confined to a wheelchair, we treat him with much more respect than you, Captain."
Pike: "Hmmm..."
He's still the only straight, white, "abled", male. xD
Uh, Lieutenant Dan? XD lmao
Spock mind melds with Kirk as he's in emotional agony.... Spock Whispers "Forget"
And just like that STD is gone.... It's a glorious feeling.
It's not that easy to get rid of an STD.
If anyone would have spoken to Picard, Kirk, Sisko or, shit, even Janeway like that they'd have shut them down with a look, dragged them into the ready room and ripped them a new one. Ridiculous. No CO would have put up with that kind of insubordination. Although Sisko would have just probably knocked them the fuck out.
Especially if it was Janeway before her morning coffee.
Janeway is actually on the worse end of people you want to try that on. Behind Sisko because like you say he might straight up actually knock some sense into you.
If i was the captain, they would all be in the brig for obvious reasons.
Remember the scene where Commander Data (acting captain) had to lecture Worf because of a sigh in front of the crew? Yet here they talk over, disrespect, and ignore who is supposed to be the most highly decorated starfleet captain in history... why? Because his real purpose is to be the white male doormat that the leftie-squad can shit on, to show how powerful they are and to disrespect white guys in positions of authority which is the real agenda pushing.
I'm glad I didn't pay for any of this.
Hey, I seed on Pirate Bay ....
@@ammosophobia You still pay with the time invested waiting for the show to suddenly turn good.
Neither did I. Thank God for torrent files
Damn, Pike seemed like a good character. Ruined by teenage girl drama.
Yeah but he yeeted them all into the future to be someone else's problem so well played Pike.
I recall a TOS episode where there was a situation and the full of himself helmsman at the time (not Sulu) suggested that the Enterprise uses proton torpedoes. Kirk replied “I’ll take that under advisement...when this ship becomes a democracy.” Which was his polite way of saying “Sod off! I’m the damn captain!” TOS Kirk would, in my mom’s words to my brothers and me, slap the black off of Mikey Spock if she got up in his face.
Christopher Jones That was “Balance of Terror” 🖖😀
Edited to say, that my memory has failed me. 😩
THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER
BAILEY: Sir, we going to just let it hold us here? We've got phaser weapons. I vote we blast it.
KIRK: I'll keep that in mind, Mister Bailey, when this becomes a democracy.
THE BALANCE OF TERROR
[In "The Balance of Terror", Stiles was bigoted against Spock, and Stiles was guilty of insubordination toward Spock (more than once), but Spock ignored him. Kirk told Stiles to leave his bigotry in his quarters. Stiles got off lightly, IMO. Kirk also gently reminded Stiles that he should leave the past behind (Stiles' ancestors had been killed in the old Romulan war.]
Dandelion Down Thank you for setting the record straight. I feel awful for giving out the wrong information! I’ll show myself to the Agony Booth. 😬
@ Pondimus Maximus . NO, NO, not the agony booth - - that's only in the mirror universe, thank heavens :)
Don't feel bad. It just happens that those are two of my top 10 favorite episodes: I almost know them line by line.
Live long and prosper.
Or "there's no way we're we're going to use the same weapon that will be used to destroy a Death Star."
It's like how they did worf in TNG but word was head of security......not the damn captain.
Well everyone who shut Worf down was a ranking officer anyway. And his suggestions were always just kill anything that moves. And despite Worf getting consistently shut down, the ranking officers still didnt try their hardest to make him feel like an idiot. You, the audience, knew that Worf's suggestion was bad but no one in the show says that. They just suggest an alternative means of action. In Discovery, it's the lower ranked crew members talking down to the commanding officer. And they don't even try to be civil about their disagreements.
Worf was akways prone to "shoot first" strategies, it's just how he was raised. Superior officers don't dismiss his comments, they simply try to go through the more peaceful routes first
@@TurboRTM worf had valid requests most of the time. their is a funny and sad compilation of that on youtube.
"The only good thing about the show is Pike"
Are you people serious?
He's treated like Donnie from The Big Lebowski - FFS
And that's as good as it gets
Exactly!
So many people are like "OMG Pike is the best captain!" When he wasn't much more than a doormat the entire season
Sorotia that being said, if people still think he’s the best part that sounds like your show has some issues
Christopher, you're out of your element!
This casting of Pike is good, but the way his character is written on this show isn't
Christopher Pike was supposed to be such a venerated captain that they named a medal after him (one still used a century after this show).
They made statues and medals after lots of assholes.
@@thegrimmretails3777 Given that this is meant to be the enlightened 23rd century I somehow doubt starfleet is naming their medals after assholes. That's the thing, star trek takes place in the future, not the present.
This is what the left does with everything they envy. They destroy.
It's amazing that Starfleet functions in Disco ball. Clearly producers don't understand importance of command, or are lazy by artificially inflating drama.
And it's already repeating itself in Picard. This nightmare is never gonna end
Repeat after me: "This show never existed"
Pike needs to take a page from archers book and utilise the airlock every now and again. I'm sure the crew would very quickly stop butting in when they're reminded they need air to speak.
No, the person Pike can learn the most from is the wartime captain: Captain Ben Sisco.
There is no regard for the chain of command how can the ship function , this is an emotional mess
when everyone says pike was one of the only good things in the show, i see all this in my mind and think did these people even watch the same thing as me?
He's still the best character on the show. That's how bad everyone else is. If he'd only push back against his officers, he'd be fine.
He was when he actually got to do something. A lesser man would have been buried in that many people walking all over him. But people still wanted more Pike even when it was all over. That says a lot about how the man managed to reach an audience when the entire cast and writing room was trying to bring him down.
Now listen...these scenes taken out of context would certainly make Pike seem to be taking a lot of flack, sass, criticisms from the crew. Watching them without the rest of scenes certainly makes him seem weak. What’s missing are the multitudes of asides, events, and storylines where he gives orders and the crew follows and where the crew respect his leadership and are deferential to him. There is a reason why people have praised Mount’s depiction of Pike and why he’s getting his own show.
yup, and also ignores the context of Pike being a "guest" Captain of the Discovery, of an established crew, who were just a wee bit hurt by a previous CO. Pike himself knows that, and references that. He is there to lead a mission, and a mission which many of them end up being more experienced/knowledgable in than he is. What people are taking issue with is very often Pike accepting "yup, they know better" and accepting when he does not have the knowledge. Essentially, people are taking issue with the Captain knowing his limits, admitting when he's wrong/doesn't know something, allowing people more knowledgeable to take the lead when necessary. Wonder why they have an issue with that though....may be a hint in the title of this video.
I can count the number of times the tng crew were insubordinate while mentally stable on a single hand (and that was 7 seasons), I find it hard to take seriously if there are dozens of times when the crew aren't following orders.
Finally found the one sane/reasonable comment burried under all the knee-jerk judgements. Thanks for setting the record straight.
@@GusPlayer94 This too, seconded.
"Now listen...these scenes taken out of context would certainly make Pike seem to be taking a lot of flack, sass, criticisms from the crew. Watching them without the rest of scenes certainly makes him seem weak."
Well, it's that and the fact that there is such a _huge mass _*_of_*_ these scenes._
I wouldn't put it on him, though. This particular crew come across as totally unprofessional. There is _zero_ professionalism from any of them.
Pike:*Opens mouth*
Somebody: Shut the hell up!
This is pretty hilarious. I don't think I'll be able to un-see this now if I rewatch episodes.
To be fair, Cornwell was an Admiral
And she wasn't a terrible character. Actually her rank helps her character because it comes with the rank
I would love to see this crew try this under Captain Ben Sisco.
They would either get in line or be fired
What about Janeway. Burnham would have been spaced by the second episode.
@@CH3353N1NJ45 Captain Insaneway would have flayed Mikey Spock alive
All these arrogant women wouldn't last a day. reminds me of that survivor show where it was men versus women and the women wandered around and cried and fought and went hungry.
i need to watch that
yes please give us the name
That show you were referring to is called The Island with Bear Grylls, Season 2 to be precise where it was men vs women, and there's plenty of clips from it on RUclips.
I bailed after episode 3 of season 1. Watching this, I'm glad I did. I knew it was bad from other clips, but this is both unbelievably bad writing and sickening to watch what they've done to the concept of starship command structure. Anson Mount is a good actor and deserved better for his character. I doubt if any writer on this show ever had military experience or were even in the scouts. Chain of command seems to be a foreign concept in this alternate reality. Following orders is so patriarchal, don't ya know.
Yep, I stopped at the tardigrade episode with the dumbest death in TV history after they made everyone but Burnham temporarily idiotic or antisocial in order to make Burnham look better. That is the mark of a genuinely stupid person on script duty.
Exactly, this is lame
It’s alarming to see how zealously people defend this on Facebook. This is garbage but somehow we are “haters.”
SO.MANY.STRONG.FEMALE.CHARACTERS! WOW
Same goes for Lower Decks and is infinitely better than Discovery. It's too bad Paramount can't make McMahan the new showrunner for the whole franchise.
Jeffrey Hunter probably wouldn't like this. He played Pike as badass and authoritative. Mount was forced to play the Gillette Soy Trek Pike.
It's a shame as Anson Mount was excellent at the role. If only the script writers were as competent.
Holy crap, do the people writing this show know anything about how a chain of command works in a military-style organization? Pike comes off as weak, someone who you can simply walk over all the time. In every other Star Trek show, the captain assembles his senior staff, they pitch ideas, the captain listens and makes a decision, and if someone starts to get a little too argumentative, the captain shuts it down, and the subordinate -- usually it's Worf -- goes, "Yes, sir." That's how you effectively command. After what I just saw, I wouldn't trust the Discovery crew to make a mail run to Rigel 3, never mind doing stuff that could determine the fate of the entire quadrant.
You summed it up perfectly! I just think it was unintentionally funny how everyone and their mothers bossed him around in the show.
John Rust: but you're forgetting they have all superhero kickass female power Michael Burham the one who can do the job of everybody and way more better...!
@@romelmunoz7957 Thanks for setting me straight. There's no problem in the universe that can't solved by THE BESTEST EVEEEEEEEEERRRR.
@@johnrust592: I have this realization right away... According to this series the Spock we all know wouldn't be the same with the influence of Mickey, the same Spock who did trash the timeline in the first movie of Abrams that lead to the crap of STD.
So in a way Mickey Spock is the culprit of the Bad Reboot!!
Do you guys realize that the Starfleet in their universe isn't supposed to feel like military? That leadership-style hasn't been up-to-date for the past 30 years. Yes, it's rude to interrupt people but listening to other opinions doesn't make you seem weak. One person alone is never able to make the right decisions all of the time and tbh the fact that his crewmates dare to speak to him in that way only makes it clear how good of a captain he really is. People work best if they are comfortable where they work and like the people that they work with
To quote Jack O'Neill, "Does it say 'Colonel' anywhere on my uniform?"
I wouldn't even think about wiping my ass with Discovery's scripts
I'd be worried about catching something.
@@pittland44 STD
“I want to thank you for following orders” what an embarrassment of a series.
This is why I struggle to understand the people asking for a Pike show.. the actor was fine, but he was playing a Captain in a badly written script every episode. A lot of the other actors I have no problems with either, it's what they're being made to SAY. Presumably a Pike show would be by the same moronic writing/production team.. I guess it's a desperate grab at some sort of Trek normality after seeing him on the Pacman-saucer Enterprise at the end. I only hope like hell Patrick Stewart's trek bollocks-o-meter is working well..
Pike and the actor deserved to be on a better show
I think part of the reason disco feels so different is because of the constant, unaddressed insubordination. It’s a military operation. They’d get kicked out of the actual navy if they spoke to a superior officer the way they constantly do here.
i think pike's vulnerability and willingness to admit when his crew has it right is one of his best qualities
I think a collaborative officer is more realistic than shown in media, but the way he is presented as too ridgid and by the book, naive and weak. There is only one scene where he loses his temper and checks the crew and he should have at multiple times put people in their place. That is what a command structure is about.
Great example: Mal from Firefly. Captain Ben Sisco. If you want to get nerdy, Optimus Primal vs Ratrap in Beast Wars season one.
A rational comment amidst this sea of knee-jerk reactions, thankyou.
I came here to say this
And some of the cutting him mid speech is actually a sign of, “I got your back. Let’s go for his thing.”
This series has opened Star Trek to me more than Voyager or Deep Space Nine in the 90s. The writing is bit contemporary and staccato, but they’re trying to woo in the newer generation.
Not a Trekkie, myself but it’s good when new people come in to the fold. New ideas and culture can develop. Isn’t that’s what the series is all about. To head out to space and discover new and exotic things and deepens understating of each other... let’s us remember that.
@@wyleong4326 Highlighting insolence and disrespect as a way of attracting a new generation of viewers is pretty sad commentary on newer generations. Especially since that would get you demoted, disciplined or even fired if you did that in a military, quasi military or civilian job. Starfleet still has a chain of command. Also they never did this to Georgiou and especially haven't done this to Burnham since she became captain.
DAMN! No wonder he wants to quit in the menagerie/pilot episode. Poor pike.
Star Trek: Mutiny
This show seems like a gigantic P I L E. You can tell the writers have a lot of pent up power fantasies.
Man that show sucks so much it makes me angry.
only a minute in and already thinking, "so when's someone going to interrupt him saying 'sheer fucking hubris' or 'shut the fuck up'"?
I never could see all the excitement over the prospect of a Pike based series.
Ah std, when your writing staff know nothing about military protocols and even less about science fiction.
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get 'n' beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here!"
It's hard to take lessons from this show b/c it's teaching us faulty lessons and values that will make it so we never get anything done and less likely to succeed, but at least we'll feel good about it
4:20 starting here, I've just been laughing. It also helps that I took a bong rip given the time code.
You have to get stoned out of your gourd for this show.
I've seen so many people defend this show and at first I was confused as to why, but the common trait amongst these people was their disdain for TOS, TNG, VOY, and DS9 (ENT isn't really brought up) so it sort of makes sense. Those who like nuTrek dislike old Trek.
I like both
Rank? Chain of command?
Never heard of 'em.
The sheer fucking hubris.
And I was starting to bend a bit to finally watch The STD. Glad I can now save my time.
Thus is NOT about insubordination. NOT about military protocols. THIS is all about an agenda. Pike is serving his purpose... according to plan
This is why we don't need a Pike series. Who wants to see the captain disrespected in every episode?
Do people get motion sickness watching this show?
I am a fan of previous Treks but I haven't seen Discovery. After reading through some of the comments a thought occurs to me. Gene Roddenberry was often criticized (even by the writers) for not having enough drama and conflict among the crew. They thought he was sanitizing it. Now I think his choices make a lot of sense when you remember that a real crew can't have conflict among officers all the time just for the sake of drama. He wasn't sanitizing, he was being real.
He was the best.
I get why they don't trust their Captain, because of their previous ones they are a lot more cautious and don't want him to have the upper hand. They may respect someone but their past experiences with a Captain have not been well so they don't want to rely on Pike. They don't know if they can trust him.
For everyone who is saying this show is terrible and disrespectful or whatever you fail to see that people who get betrayed don't trust the next person who just comes in and tries to take control. You people are insensitive and need to just leave this show alone.
All this sass for Pike; and he’s just trying to deal with this new crew who all make a living on breaking the rules.
You get a court martial, and _you_ get a court martial. Everybody gets a court martial!
Skidadle skidoodle captian Pike is getting bombuzeled
1:15 The world will end if Captains have to thank their soldiers for following his orders.
And you would never talk back to the captain's order even though you are right, you can discuss about situations during the briefing session or privately but not when the captain is making a decision, You can get decommisioned from duty for that or in other word, get yeeted.
I knew that STD is bad. I have dropped it mid season 2. I know how ridiculous the "let me tell you about my feelings" moments are. Despite all that, I.....I did not anticipate, I could not have anticipated the scene @ 04:19. I have no words for it. It is so bad that I am speechless! I want to gouge my eyes out! And that awful acting!!
How many people anticipated the moment at 5:42 ?
Me!!!
CUUUCK!
I remember this pissing me off😂 all of it
Wow. Couple this with the alleged on set altercation that required CBS’ HR department to intervene (not speculation. It was reported in the press) and his barely concealed contempt on a recent Trek panel, it’s no wonder Anson Mount wants no part of STD or Star Trek anymore. Hey, Anson, there’s room on the Orville!
Can't find anything on that. Could you link?
Makara deadline.com/2019/03/anson-mount-star-trek-discovery-exit-rebecca-romijn-altercation-director-season-2-1202577741/. Your welcome. And though Deadline and CBS’ spin machines are in overdrive, I’ve been in enough workplaces to know that when HR gets involved, it’s serous.
@@christopherjones5446 read the article...he accidently hit the director when rehearsing his hand actions for a scene...and nothing came of it (ive been in enough workplaces to know that all accidents have to be reported, reguardless of verasity)...he also left because his character was only meant to be in one season
Careful you don't pull a muscle with all that stretching your doing there buddy
No stretching required. The article is in Deadline.com, which is owned by the same company that owns Rolling Stone, Variety, and at least 20 other digital and print brands. The article does not say, "... he accidentally hit the director ...". It does not use the word "accident" at all. It uses the word "altercation". It says, "... Mount was involved in an on-set physical altercation ...".
As I said, no stretching required.
@@dandeliondown6010 " The incident reportedly stemmed from a discussion of a scene, and Mount gesticulating and pointing, which was the action of the scene in question. In acting out that scene before the cameras were turned on, the actor’s hands made physical contact with the director.
Quickly after the incident occurred, it was reported by the production to CBS HR, which reviewed the matter. The department spoke to all parties involved, including Mount and the director, to determine what happened. Based on those discussions and the inquiry, the incident did not result in any disciplinary action against the actor.
Even before HR got involved, Mount apologized to the director and work on the episode continued. The incident is said to have zero to do with Mount leaving Discovery; one source close to the production told Deadline that “we would love to find a way to work with Anson again.”"....the article clearly implies this was an accident. This is a nonstory...stop trying to spin it.
Ah, yeah!, thats exactly what I like the most about Star Trek, their total LACK of respect for their captains :D
Just as I love how Jedi like Luke Skywalker throws away their lightsabers with disrespect
Here we go again.
let the captain talk. they could've let him finish what he has to say first 😔 it's not wrong to voice out opinions/suggestions, but there's a commanding officer for a reason. the captain exists for a reason, and the crew should know when to draw the line. poor pike, must've been hard to deal with a new crew.
ANDDD that's why i can't wait to see his dynamics with his crew in SNW!! i hope it's reallyyy better than this aaaaaa
What about that time Pike's girlfriend came over, and spent the night in Bryce's quarters?
She spent the night in Michael's bed ... with Michael.
Bryce was non responsive to her flirting thats why she moved to Michael
So he was literally cucked? Lol
@@NitpickingNerd Bryce was way too fast and didn't give the girlfriend time to respond.
The women in nutrek are so fucking amazing that they don't need to be respectful of men...they aren't like the capable women on voyager. And it's a shame because Pike is the only character besides Saru that I like...they are the only ones that act like starfleet.
Pike was supportive of constructive discourse but demanded every instance of it came with a suggested solution/alternative. He was the best leader who trusted his team, they trusted him back for it. That's synergy. That's true leadership. Well written, well portrayed. Out of context is out of context and context is for kings chile I mean you managed to omit the scene in which he makes that clear almost verbatim. Next!
4:20 - Discovery is all about doing the chatting/feelings thing when lives and such are at stake
This is a symptom of a greater problem of popular culture and the media reinforcing this sense of entitlement and lack of respect of authority on the part of millennials. Almost Every ad for a product I’ve seen has some phrasing of telling young people that the rules don’t apply to them and that in order to succeed, they have to defy superiors. This new trek show Picard looks like more of the same.
Honestly can’t say I’ve ever encountered that, why go out of your way to make a problem that’s entirely nonbeneficial
Waaaaaahhhhhhh!
Literally just “get off my bridge”
The real reason Picard lost his hair.
2:15 He would have been thrown in the brig if that was any other non STD captain. This captain was shaking in his boots and had to have burnham take care of it.
Poor Pike stuck with a crew of Millenials.
It's almost like the show is written by people who have no knowledge of how the military works.
Star Trek Into Cuckness
There is absolutely no respect for authority in this series. It completely eliminates the point of having a chain of command.
0:55 This scene just shows just how much feminism runs this show.
3:23 If this were under literally any other captain in all the other series, they would be relieved of duty.
I think they are like this because of Lorca, they just go "enough with the bullshit lets get things done as quickly as possible"
The more i listen to his dialogue, the more he sounds more professional and reasonable than any of the crew blatantly disregarding and disrespectfully questions instead of proposing a better option to the Captain. The most a decent Starfleet Officer might do is resign their duties in protest. (aka) "I will not follow order that might jeopardize the lives of the crew or others" It seems everyone in Discovery thinks they work at Starbucks sayin "it's pronounced Ventee and it means BIG"
I couldn't get past the three minute mark with this one. Sorry Major Grin.
She gets hers saru and the adirmal basically gives her a verbal bitchslap
I only watch discovery when I'm bored and got nothing better to do, other then that I'd never watch discovery for fun
He really gets treated like a bitch.
RIP Lorca the only good character on this show.
"Because it was no longer Starfleet!" - Jean Luc Picard..sort of
I thought Cpt Pike was the only white male that got fair treatment on this show. I was wrong. They nearly all , especially Burnham interrupt him mid sentence. God I hate this show
Rude Rude Rude Rude Rude
Or perhaps just me feel that way
But seriously that’s rude
"I wanted to thank you. For following orders and maintaining our cover." Like, seriously? How exactly did these children pass Starfleet Academy? Unprofessional, oblivious to chain of command and rude to the captain, arrogant, unable to separate emotion from job professionalism.
i have to say didn't pay attention to that, but the entire show from season 1 to 4 was like "shut the f*ck up captain". Georgiu was the only one that punished someone for disobeying and attacking a CO.
They never talked to Georgiou like this. When Burnham tried that shit she was thrown in the brig. They especially didn't do this once Burnham became captain in the 4th season.
where do i find that scene of tilly shouting shut up at pike and saru?
she wasnt actually shouting at Pike and Saru she was shouting at the ghost of a girl she once knew