The Fastest Way To Increase Arm Speed | Overload/Underload Training For Disc Golf
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Overload Underload/ Overspeed training is a proven technique used in other explosive sports. I haven’t seen it used anywhere else in the disc golf world so I have created a training routine using this principle to help you gain disc speed fast.
Thanks @NickKrush.DGandFit for your help with this video
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Great advice, especially about the offhand.
I have been looking for something like this! Great video.
Thats awesome! Hope it helps!
So i did the heavy disc side of this today, did a techdisc set before and one after and saw a 6 mph increase, based on video what it really did for me is it forced me to be balanced better and keep my weight behind the brace. unsure if it's going to help build any speed by muscle. smooth out form, but it did seem to help in a short 20 minute session. will keep experimenting with it over the next 2 weeks.
Very nice! Heavy side is unlikely to improve speed. But it will certainly clean up technique. Congrats on the awesome progress!
I've heard of athletes phasing out the heavy side as their technique gets better as it can be detrimental to speed when you don't need it for the technique improvements. So maybe once you stop seeing improvement either add in the light weight as well or don't bother with the heavy any more
I've been wanting to try training with a higher weight disc for a while but never got around to it, but I'll definitely try to get around to it in the near future now. I've had many speed PRs since I started playing ~8 months ago but for the last few months my speed seems to have plateaued, so it will be interesting to see what happens after some of this type of training.
Hi Neil. Thanks for the comment. I've seen a lot of your stuff, you're doing some really awesome things.
Yeah I was in a similar spot and this is really helping me! Let me know how you get on
Great video. I like the idea of this being like a workout someone would do in the gym. Full body training. I got to start this up this week and see where it takes me over the summer. Thank you.
Let me know how it goes! It's working well for me. Just try to keep up the 2 or 3 times a week and you'll be bombing it!
what net is that? that is really nice =) Good video!
Thanks mate! It's a Quick Hit by Quick Play I believe. Its good, super easy to put together as well. I got mine from Costco
Great stuff! How many times a week do you go through this routine?
2 to 3 times a week. Depending on how much time I have and energy levels
You can also just buy the weighted baseballs and make the same throwing motions with them thats what I've done for overload training, works especially good for forehand as the motion is nearly identical
Cool idea. Probably not as good for the skill transfer as a disc I'd imagine but definitely more accessible in the US. I'm in the UK so not easy to come by. I'm ordering some Plyoballs for dynamic warm ups though
What changes have you seen from this routine? Changes in distance, form, and/or accuracy? Great video. Thanks. 👍🏽
Mostly distance, which is odd I thought it would be speed. My disc speed record has gone up by 3mph in 2 weeks of doing this twice a week. But im throwing about 50 feet further (consistently) than I was a couple of months ago.
I'll be putting out more videos on my Road to 400 series in the next couple of days explaining this in more detail and will keep track of it over coming weeks and months!
@@MattRobertsonDG one thing to think about is that form improvements and more efficient release of the disc - even at the same speed - will result in distance increases. For example, I throw the same speed and spin rate as Lykke Lorentzen yet she outthrows me in distance by 50-80 feet. There might be less wobble, a better launch and nose angle, resulting in more aerodynamic/streamlined disc movement through the air, and better flight paths.
@@NickCarroll this is very true!
Thank you for sharing . How much time do you spend in one workout?
Not long. The whole routine takes about 15 minutes. But I do have a very extensive warm up routine before I do this and that take about 30 to 45 minutes
I use a 240 gram bunker buster disc (using 40 g lead tape) and a 140 g dino disc. Since you took a lot of time to determine weights I was wondering if that sounds about right to you.
Now you need a speed gun or tech disc to see the gains after training for a month or two.
I've got a TechDisc (I have used it in other videos). My speed has gone from 55 to 62 so far. I definitely plan on documenting this in my Road to 400 series.
But I agree a radar would be a great idea for tracking the speed of the weighted throws. Thats what I always did in golf
Interesting concepts here! Good idea to see which cross-sporting practices translate to disc-golf. As a S&C coach and exercise scientist, I couldn't agree more with the idea that improving deceleration is critical to improving performance, along with muscular and joint health. I have to mention, however, that your assessment that training the off-hand accomplishes this is incorrect. It has to do with eccentric / concentric phases of the movement.
Deceleration training would constitute eccentric phase loading along the line of action of the normal throwing movement. Unless I'm mistaken (which is a possibility!) the dominant-side Pec Major (along with the biceps and a few others), do the majority of the deceleration of the arm as the arm proceeds through the throw. Throwing with the opposite hand (with good technique) locks the dominant-side deceleration muscle group next to the body, with little stretch or shortening, meaning no training load on those muscles.
Hey thanks for the comment. I agree with your assessment. However the point I was trying to aim for is that the dominant side of your body can only achieve what the weaker side of your body take handle, if that makes sense.
But yes I believe you are probably right that the deceleration affects of this are probably a lot lower than in similar sports such as golf where both sides work together more simultaneously.
@MattRobertsonDG yeah totally get ya! I was mostly just commenting on your suggestion to use the off hand throwing as a training modality. I can easily see someone following your suggestion thinking they're training their ability to decelerate after disc release, and risking incurring an injury.
@@michaeljansz4346 interesting. I had concluded training off arm (as long as done sensibly as I suggested) would reduce injury risk cause of more balanced training. I'm gonna do some more research into this. It was fairly common knowledge in the golf world and considered standard practice when doing overspeed training
@MattRobertsonDG yeah please do! I'd be interested to see what you can find.
If you want to reduce injury risk, you do need to have strength balance between sides, but the training involves getting strong through full ROM, and particularly at the end of ROM. As far as I'm aware, eccentric training does two things - one is that it mimicks the muscular deceleration conditions, and two is that it usually is easier to target the end of ROM potion.
what do you think about going way out there and making an 800 gram disc? too heavy? might cause injuries? great vid, thanks!
Good question! Personally I have serious doubts about the theory of heavy weights causing injury. But thats not guaranteed. Being so heavy means you can't throw hard and therefore probably less likely to cause injury. However 800g is very heavy, if you imagine trying to throw a 1kg weight lifting plate that's pretty crazy. Also I think it would probably not have any positive affect as the extra weight will definitely slow you down which would be counter productive for speed and I think the extra weight would be too much for improving form
@@MattRobertsonDG sounds good, thank you!
I use a 200 gram Bunker Buster disc with 40 grams of lead tape for a total of 240 grams and one of those Dino discs at 140 grams. I feels right but I have just started and don't expect to see results for a couple of weeks.
@@user-pj3ir4vt6x sounds like good weights to me! Let me know how you get on. Just stay consistent with it. Results for me probably started after about 2 or 3 weeks slowly but now I'm throwing 50ft further
Funnily enough, the left hand seems to be straighter! 🙂
Hahha! In that case it's probably in your head!!!! My lefty throws have been surprisingly good to be fair!
I juat hit 500 time for 550
Thats super impressive my man! Next stop on tour if you can get it!
Hope this helps. I've found it really good for improving the athleticism and therefore pushing a bit more when you feel like you've hit a peak
id miss the net
I was scared about that doing the leftys haha
Pfff my friend added a kilo to the disc 😂
I haven't really seen any evidence that there would be any benefits to doing this. I plan on phasing out the heavier weighted reps once my form has gotten better as you want to be developing speed. But let me know if the results are good, I'm curious. Be sure to warm up properly. Anything that's a different weight to what you're used to is gonna feel strange
Can you name a pro that does this?
In disc golf, none. But someone's got to start. In golf pretty much all of them, baseballs Trevor Bauer is a good example
@@MattRobertsonDG sure other sports do it, but correlation does not equal causation.
Perhaps there is a reason it does not translate well to disc golf? Perhaps it has been tried and failed?
As far as I can tell, disc golf is a speed sport, not a strength sport. See: Emerson Keith
Do you have any formal training or expertise in biomechanics or strength training?
I'm just playing Devil's advocate, I tend to agree with you here, but I would be making an assumption to think 'overloading' in disc golf is beneficial.
I wonder what David Wiggins take is on this? He seems to be the most power orientated thrower, and potentially the best strongman for your theory.. but again; correlation does not equal causation.
I prefer evidence-based arguments TBH.
@@Picklemedia completely understand your point of view! However I would say number 1, disc golf is a new sport so of course we aren't seeing techniques like these used! However I would guarantee they are being used by guys at the top of the game, why? Because I cannot believe I'm the first one to come up with it haha.
Number 2, this is definitely a speed exercise not a strength exercise, the heavy weight is for building technique not strength.
And yes I have a degree that included sports science and training (mostly around golf but still applys) and I consulted with a professional trainer whilst working on this.
@@MattRobertsonDG "in disc golf, none"
"I guarantee they're being used"
Which statement is true?
You have made a series of assumptions. I will defer to Occam's razor.
@@Picklemedia those were different questions. First you asked me to name one and I said I couldn't. Then i said that I guarantee people are using similar techniques since they are used in many other explosive sports so why would disc golfers ignore it? That's the only assumption I have made
You should really study how best to implement over/underlosd training protocols before making a video that could get people hurt. The weight of the discs need to be tailored to the increase or decrease in speed when training. For example, overload weight should be limited to a reduction of 10% of your standard speed NOT 300 grams.
Hi Chris. Very much respect your opinion, I know you know your stuff. But I'd love to see your sources. I've done research as well, many of the overload programs I've seen are using much much bigger weight increases than 10%, the values I have used came from products I have used myself for golf training.
As for the injury risk I myself actually have a degree on the subject and consulted with a fitness coach before posting this video.
Also much of the research out there suggests that heavier loads do not pose an increased injury risk and its actually the lighter weights that pose more of a risk.
But all that being said serious training in our sport is new and collaboration and new opinions are needed. I would be more than happy to talk more about this in private
@@MattRobertsonDG The 10% value is how much weight do you need to decrease your max standard speed by 10%. As you increase your top speed then increase the overload. This is from multiple conversations with my friend Dr Sasho McKenzie, based on his research on The Stack. It is just not picking an arbitrary number like 300g. Also the weight needs to be distributed equally closer to the rim because in a DG throw, we are trying to increase our ability to counteract inertia and spin the disc. Despite what you see on the interwebs, throwing a sledgehammer has zero to do with a DG throw. I'd be happy to discuss offline.
@@coach_chris_taylor Hi Chris yes I'd love to discuss it, I've sent you a DM on Instagram.
300g wasn't arbitrary, it was based on the same % increase used from golf overspeed training programs I have done applied to a 180g disc and then I increased it a bit more as I found the difference much less noticeable on a disc to a golf club, probably down to the leverage.