****UPDATE**** 1. KiR builds don't always keep double buffs with BS anymore, so HO and KiR will follow the same reroll logic. 2. In 3-4 Target with Deft talented, if pressing BF is gonna make you land RIGHT ON the 7th cp, then it is good to press it to generate cp,. ***more update (Jan16)*** 1. Use FTH if at max stacks + finishing condition have not been met -Use FTH at 0-3cp without BS active -Use FTH at 0-1 cp with BS active -Use SS if you are about to vanish/dance + not at FTH stacks + not max cp (so you would SS even if you are at 6cp if all those conditions are met) 2. Only keep bf uptime in ST when AR is active 3. For the FIRST RTB after KIR, you wanna RTB when all of the followings are met - All buffs are below 39sec - LD is active - You dont have all 6 buff active
New to Outlaw, so this guide was very helpful! One question though: What's the reason for not using Ambush after Vanish / Dance to build Combo Points? Currently on vacation so don't know if it's even possible. Would assume so with Subterfuge talented though.
Man, its fantastic! Which things to learn first you offer for newbies/not much time to play guys like me? I mean what to learn and how after what? :) Im trying the best, but still have like 120k dps overall at 18 M+ ... :) Thanks in advance.
The thing i see is that with the 4P it will mean you can chose the buff to extend if you delete the second one before using RTB with rightlick on buff bar (which seems ooof) and have a somewhat infite RTB buff.
If some buffs are more valuable than others, could we use an intelligent weakaura to time a reroll before/after specific buffs fall off to maximize uptime on the "better" buffs?
Multiple testing has been done through simming and its proven that playing around how many buffs you have instead of what buffs you have is better. I do agree that there can be some rare case that doing so will be beneficial but that will not change our average dps.
llmch, awesome vid. Any recommendations on what to macro GS with and how that macro would look like? I know it’s not optimal as you can have more potential damage output trying to maximize your combo points but trying to take it a step at a time 😅 thanks!
I wanna say macro it to BTE over PS cuz less likely to waste it on dying mobs, but then it might fck up ur GS uptime especially if your not optimally getting vanish back up quick. Else I'm just crazy wrong and it's gonna affect your GS uptime regardless :p
its hard to pin point much without context since everything contributes to energy efficiency, but i'd say the most important part is using FTH procs and banking fth for vanish properly
@@llmchvulpera Ok that raises me another question, whats the rule for fth? Think I just use it whenever it is up, guess that was wrong. Thanks heaps for your reply!
Still don’t quite understand the first roll after KIR. If I have 4 buffs of 39 secs and I roll, I will retain one with 4p and then likely to get another one or two, which sounds like a loss?
buffs from rtb and buffs from cto/kir are "coded" differently, and thats the reason why they have such interaction, so i assume it is intended@@seanchen6799
Hello kind sir, do you happen to have your macros or weakauras in a video? im sorry, i just found your youtube and im a vivid new coming rogue player, my first dps class, so i know everyone has told me they're hard, but im willing to commit to it haha, thanks in advance, and thank you as well for the amazing content !
for WAs, u can !wa in my twitch chat and get them for free. For macros, i dont really use any rotational macros, i only use macros for cc, which is important imo, and macros for some aura cancels, which is not important
Do we still want to bank fan the hammer if we are running HO and spend them even without broadside? Or should we focus on using ambush with HO in our invis windows if we don’t have broadside?
Yo Ilmch first thanks so much on this Insane guide I’m pvp player atm I’m top 140 at 3s BUT I start to play outlaw and I found it very fun to play m+ so my question is on your guide Rotation & Commentary I don’t understand why should I use Blade flurry to build the combo points between the crack shot window if it’s guaranteed 5 combo points? Isn’t it better to press it in the pressure window brother? And another question is How much Haste (&) do we need as outlaw rogue when we doing M+ and when we raiding. Last one is why you don’t play night elf? It’s giving us another vanish outside bosses Thanks a lot ❤
BF effective cd is only a few secs since it is on restless blades, full sending it to generate more cp overall is just better. More cp generated = more vanish uptime
also if u wanna just shadow meld, you will have to Meld>Restealth to activiate crackshot, and thats gonna cost u one gcd, not to mention dungeon boss/same specific mobs usually lock u in global combat, u wont be able to restealth even after u meld
You havnt really done “tierlist” of buffs. Which buffs are really best and which are shit? Could be usefull to snipe random buff procs from finishers with 4set
technically, bs is the strongest ofr kir and tb is the strongest for ho, but what buffs we have does not influence our reroll logic, so i didnt bother mentioning like a tierlist for buffs. alot of testings had been done, its been proven that "fishing" for buffs with 4p isnt really worth it.
Ty for the guide!! I´m having problems with between the eyes/dispach dmg. I spam as many as BE possible during the dungeon but my dispach dmg is higher. ¿how can i fix that? ¿Any advice? Thanks in advance
its impossible to tell without much context, it could be crackshot window not optimized, or not spending/generating cp well enough outside if crackshot leading to less stealth uptime etc
@@llmchvulpera does it not feel doubly rng now? When I get a bunch of crack shot free BtE’s in my opening vanish/SD I get like 25% more dps by the end than other pulls just because it guarantees having full adrenaline rush uptime for the first like minute and a half of the fight. Mix that with rng of hitting proper RtB’s (I’m using HO spec) in those windows and it just feels way more variable than in the past. Like random pulls moving between 150k single vs 120k other pulls.
Hi i really wanna fix my interface just like yours, could you tell me what addons and which weakaura i should use? Specially for subterfuge window and roll the bones TnQ❤
great guide! can anyone explain how the tech to reroll until you have all buffs before the key starts works? something with spamming slice and dice to reset the keep it rolling buff.
For me HO build is much easier to reach Simc outcome. kir build is really hard to reach that.. I dunno how to make my 6dice buffs uptime over 50% like simc really thx for the new guide
kir builds has much higher variance than ho without tier set, so its just normal to hit numbers that look quite different from the sim, but of course it might also because of rotational error
I don't know if anybody experienced it yet. But whenever I play my rogue. My stealth keeps breaking. I wanna use AR SnD early so cool down comes down between the fights. Since ar stays on so Is bf and SnD. But somehow my stealth is always breaking and stealing 3-4 seconds of my ar. One day I pulled a boss without doing anything. Some friends said first strike was my toxic boots... Sometimes my stealth breaks even when there are no enemies. It really makes it hard because when I play 22-23 keys and we need skip we can't fully rely on my ability to skip because my stealth always breaks for some Reason.
tbh the philosophy of most dps spec are kinda similar, once u nail one down, its not hard to move to another spec :P its just a bit overwhelming in the beginning :P
****UPDATE****
1. KiR builds don't always keep double buffs with BS anymore, so HO and KiR will follow the same reroll logic.
2. In 3-4 Target with Deft talented, if pressing BF is gonna make you land RIGHT ON the 7th cp, then it is good to press it to generate cp,.
***more update (Jan16)***
1. Use FTH if at max stacks + finishing condition have not been met
-Use FTH at 0-3cp without BS active
-Use FTH at 0-1 cp with BS active
-Use SS if you are about to vanish/dance + not at FTH stacks + not max cp (so you would SS even if you are at 6cp if all those conditions are met)
2. Only keep bf uptime in ST when AR is active
3. For the FIRST RTB after KIR, you wanna RTB when all of the followings are met
- All buffs are below 39sec
- LD is active
- You dont have all 6 buff active
I think I rather the HO build vs KiR
The most comprehensive guide out there for outlaw. Fantastic job man. Tyvm
ty
The video editor deserves a massive raise
imagine this video without him, it would be all raw MS paint pictures only
@@llmchvulpera literally a nightmare. Not all heroes wear capes.
@@m_rod9562 @Trynexx thats him
@@llmchvulpera the man! The MYTH! THE LEGEND!
not even kidding this might be THE best guide ive seen so far and trust me ive seen a lot of them
but its not appealing to most of the audience because its an hour long KEKW
Phenomenal guide. As someone new to outlaw rogue, this is the best guide I have found.
glad to hear u like it
Very happy to see this pop up. Super pumped for the new tier!
Hope u enjoy it :P
"or are you gonna take a fucking elevator after a boss" I felt that in my soul
That song man I love it every time
my editor picked it, i love it too
Great to see that your are still loving outlul :P take care budy
ty bud, u take care too!
That was amazing!!!:
Could you please tell me what is the name of the addon that can help us to follow the roll of bones buffs?
Thanks a lot my homie !! mitch the best rat ever 😎
ty gosu
Hell yeah man! Love your guides man. Keep it up brother
ty man
i love vulpera they are so cute
finally, someone agrees with me lol
New to Outlaw, so this guide was very helpful!
One question though: What's the reason for not using Ambush after Vanish / Dance to build Combo Points?
Currently on vacation so don't know if it's even possible. Would assume so with Subterfuge talented though.
they can both proc cto but SS can generate FTH stacks while Ambush cant.
Just in time Limch ty so much!!!
ty, hope it helps!
Sick guide bro, brownie points for the cozy Persona5 OST
credit to my editor
Like ur name😂 and clearly explained how to play outlaw efficiently. Thx shoutout LLMCH
je met un petit commentaire en fr pour le référencement 😂 respect mitch 💪
Best guide ever :) goodjob man
Glad it helped!
awesome work man. very informative.
glad to hear u like it
Thanks for that guide, you are doing great job
ty! hope the guide helps
I lit lost NNN with this guide thank you for that!
hopefully it helps! feel free to ask anything
rly good video!
@llmch_vulpera do you have any links to your UI? I really liked the simple buff timers you have.
you can !wa in my twtich chat
Legend, love the guide.❤
glad to know u like it, ty
impeccable timing :)
not really Sadge
Man, its fantastic! Which things to learn first you offer for newbies/not much time to play guys like me? I mean what to learn and how after what? :) Im trying the best, but still have like 120k dps overall at 18 M+ ... :) Thanks in advance.
learn ho for sure if u cant invest too much time and is kinda new to the spec
Great guide ! Any WA you can recommend that can tell us when to reroll the buffs?
hmm i know theres one that people use but ive never used it before, idk the link either haha
The thing i see is that with the 4P it will mean you can chose the buff to extend if you delete the second one before using RTB with rightlick on buff bar (which seems ooof) and have a somewhat infite RTB buff.
You can't right click off RTB buffs
we can only cancel all RTB aura, but we can't choose to only cancel part/some of them :P
amazing guide good stuff dood
ty, hope it helps!
If some buffs are more valuable than others, could we use an intelligent weakaura to time a reroll before/after specific buffs fall off to maximize uptime on the "better" buffs?
Multiple testing has been done through simming and its proven that playing around how many buffs you have instead of what buffs you have is better. I do agree that there can be some rare case that doing so will be beneficial but that will not change our average dps.
what minute is when you explain Kir Aoe rotation?
Nice work professor, but wanted to ask: Don't you think you will have more benefit from [Swift Slasher] than [Thief's Versatility] ? HO ( AOE)
u can try simming that, because the value of SS is dynamic, meaning that ot depends on your haste, so its different for different profiles
THX for answ :P @@llmchvulpera
I love you and churpie.
ty sir
llmch, awesome vid. Any recommendations on what to macro GS with and how that macro would look like? I know it’s not optimal as you can have more potential damage output trying to maximize your combo points but trying to take it a step at a time 😅 thanks!
its not optimal to macro it ye, but if u really wanna make it easy then macro it to PS/BTE would be fine
I wanna say macro it to BTE over PS cuz less likely to waste it on dying mobs, but then it might fck up ur GS uptime especially if your not optimally getting vanish back up quick. Else I'm just crazy wrong and it's gonna affect your GS uptime regardless :p
I'm running kir build for M+, and my energy is almost always exhausted for ST fight, do you have any tips for it? Perfect video, thank you.
its hard to pin point much without context since everything contributes to energy efficiency, but i'd say the most important part is using FTH procs and banking fth for vanish properly
@@llmchvulpera Ok that raises me another question, whats the rule for fth? Think I just use it whenever it is up, guess that was wrong. Thanks heaps for your reply!
the most updated usage rules are in the pinned comment@@Zerik666
Still don’t quite understand the first roll after KIR. If I have 4 buffs of 39 secs and I roll, I will retain one with 4p and then likely to get another one or two, which sounds like a loss?
ALL kir buffs will stay when u RTB for the first time after using KIR
@@llmchvulpera wow good to know. Thanks. Is that intended though.
buffs from rtb and buffs from cto/kir are "coded" differently, and thats the reason why they have such interaction, so i assume it is intended@@seanchen6799
6:24 your cat has a question
i'll translate it for you
"wheres food?"
Are you still gonna play enhance in season 3
yes enhance is most likely going to be my main alt
Hello kind sir, do you happen to have your macros or weakauras in a video? im sorry, i just found your youtube and im a vivid new coming rogue player, my first dps class, so i know everyone has told me they're hard, but im willing to commit to it haha, thanks in advance, and thank you as well for the amazing content !
for WAs, u can !wa in my twitch chat and get them for free. For macros, i dont really use any rotational macros, i only use macros for cc, which is important imo, and macros for some aura cancels, which is not important
Do we still want to bank fan the hammer if we are running HO and spend them even without broadside? Or should we focus on using ambush with HO in our invis windows if we don’t have broadside?
the banking is only for non-ho builds, so u wont do it with ho.
Yo Ilmch first thanks so much on this Insane guide I’m pvp player atm I’m top 140 at 3s BUT I start to play outlaw and I found it very fun to play m+ so my question is on your guide Rotation & Commentary I don’t understand why should I use Blade flurry to build the combo points between the crack shot window if it’s guaranteed 5 combo points? Isn’t it better to press it in the pressure window brother?
And another question is How much Haste (&) do we need as outlaw rogue when we doing M+ and when we raiding.
Last one is why you don’t play night elf? It’s giving us another vanish outside bosses
Thanks a lot ❤
BF effective cd is only a few secs since it is on restless blades, full sending it to generate more cp overall is just better. More cp generated = more vanish uptime
also if u wanna just shadow meld, you will have to Meld>Restealth to activiate crackshot, and thats gonna cost u one gcd, not to mention dungeon boss/same specific mobs usually lock u in global combat, u wont be able to restealth even after u meld
also vulpera is the worst race dps, i just lile how it looks
@@llmchvulpera thanks a lot brother ❤️
thx you a so much , great video , nice explanation thx man
hope it helps
It does thanks you
You havnt really done “tierlist” of buffs. Which buffs are really best and which are shit? Could be usefull to snipe random buff procs from finishers with 4set
technically, bs is the strongest ofr kir and tb is the strongest for ho, but what buffs we have does not influence our reroll logic, so i didnt bother mentioning like a tierlist for buffs. alot of testings had been done, its been proven that "fishing" for buffs with 4p isnt really worth it.
ty for the guide it was really good! do you recommend using focus macros for kick/blind/other ccs in m+ or do you only have them keybound once?
I’ve found mouse over keybinds for all 3 work really well for me with a plater addon
yes i do have a focus macro for each and every one for them :P as well as another macro for current/mouseover target
ty! very much appreciate it
Ty for the guide!! I´m having problems with between the eyes/dispach dmg. I spam as many as BE possible during the dungeon but my dispach dmg is
higher. ¿how can i fix that? ¿Any advice? Thanks in advance
its impossible to tell without much context, it could be crackshot window not optimized, or not spending/generating cp well enough outside if crackshot leading to less stealth uptime etc
Should we wait to use KiR build until we have tier pieces ?
you can but its not necessary, kir aoe is roughly 3-5% ahead of ho aoe
Could you explain kir build please?
Do you know why when i do the opener in dungeons sometimes im out of stealth ? BF - Stealth - RTB - AR - SnD
bf breaks stealth, the rest dont, u moght have a dot on u?
Meanwhile hunters are using 4 buttons for st or aoe and doing the same dps. Great guide for new rogues, feels like rogue asmr.
glad to hear u like that guide
Hi, your UI is really awesome! Could you do a vid or link for setup? Cheers great guide
uh im too lazy to make another guide at this point, but u can !wa !ui to get my plater/SUF/WA profiles
does the difference between using roll the dice before ar huge compared to using ar then roll the dice? when it comes to damage
with 4p, using rtb before ar is roughly a 0.5% gain in a 5min ST sim
They made outlaw have way too many ifs when it comes to RtB to justify any other mechanic like stealth windows.
outlaw is a bit more complex than most specs (maybe not all), but i do enjoy the complexity
@@llmchvulpera does it not feel doubly rng now? When I get a bunch of crack shot free BtE’s in my opening vanish/SD I get like 25% more dps by the end than other pulls just because it guarantees having full adrenaline rush uptime for the first like minute and a half of the fight. Mix that with rng of hitting proper RtB’s (I’m using HO spec) in those windows and it just feels way more variable than in the past. Like random pulls moving between 150k single vs 120k other pulls.
@@littlekale yes we tend to have higher variance in our dps right now, but the variance will be lower once we get tier set :)
Hi i really wanna fix my interface just like yours, could you tell me what addons and which weakaura i should use? Specially for subterfuge window and roll the bones
TnQ❤
you can !addon !wa in my twitch chat to get them :p
HO Build inside crackshot window. Fan of hammer procs at 0-2 cp + BS.
What about without BS? 0--3?
ambush
great guide! can anyone explain how the tech to reroll until you have all buffs before the key starts works? something with spamming slice and dice to reset the keep it rolling buff.
consume all or one anima charge then spam snd auracancel+snd cast macro
@@llmchvulpera ty man, will try that later today!
thanks for the guide ! whats ur weakaura ?
you can !wa in my twitch chat to get it
For me HO build is much easier to reach Simc outcome. kir build is really hard to reach that.. I dunno how to make my 6dice buffs uptime over 50% like simc really thx for the new guide
kir builds has much higher variance than ho without tier set, so its just normal to hit numbers that look quite different from the sim, but of course it might also because of rotational error
Some heroes don't wear capes ❤
ty friend
llmch_vulpera long video
Came bc of the thumbnail
you are not the first one
You can write a dissertation on this
i bet i could, but i already wrote more than enough papers in college
question: so when is ambush used ?
inside/outside of stealth for HO, its mentioned in the "building CP outside & inside Crackshot" chapter
hey, do you share your weakauras?
you can !wa in my twitch chat to get them
What about macros?
How do you keep your adrenaline rush above 90%? thank for guide
with shadow dance and vanish, since it doesn't lose duration in stealth
ur a beast
the theory crafters deserve more credit than anyone else :P
@@llmchvulpera but putting it together like this for us mere mortals has helped me since shadowlands, thanks a lot!
6:24 Cat complaining that outlaw is too hard for her
he thought hes gonna die from starving after not having food for 2 hours, respectable.
Its feels good to be back to maining outlaw this season. Thanks for the deep dive guide.
Ill keep looking out for Llmch smurfs this season. 😂
hope the guide helps, and enjoy outlaw obviously
100x more fun than assasin
cant agree more
I don't know if anybody experienced it yet. But whenever I play my rogue. My stealth keeps breaking. I wanna use AR SnD early so cool down comes down between the fights. Since ar stays on so Is bf and SnD. But somehow my stealth is always breaking and stealing 3-4 seconds of my ar. One day I pulled a boss without doing anything. Some friends said first strike was my toxic boots... Sometimes my stealth breaks even when there are no enemies. It really makes it hard because when I play 22-23 keys and we need skip we can't fully rely on my ability to skip because my stealth always breaks for some Reason.
it happened to me a few times as well, im not sure what was causing it though. pretty sure the same thing like u said
Yes, exactly it happened to me also
bro wtf, i need a degree to play outlaw rogue
nah u dont, i just talk too much lol
Advance, I quit rogue
im hitting like shit and no dmg(
hopefully u can find something useful in the video
persona 5 heard
meow
yes MEOOW
Bro how can people play this game 😂 there’s too much information and the worst part is that every update it sometimes drastically changes 😂
tbh the philosophy of most dps spec are kinda similar, once u nail one down, its not hard to move to another spec :P its just a bit overwhelming in the beginning :P
what minute is when you explain Kir Aoe rotation?
stop the bully