In addition to Irish stick, I also study Wing Chun, and I can confirm your point. When we do gor sau (sparring with sticky hands), it gets very ugly very fast, even if both practicioners are skilled and know what they're doing. And that's on purpose because real fights often get up close and personal, so to speak. This speaks to a point I've dealt with in talking with others about martial arts; they argue that martial arts are ineffective for actual fights. I've found that the problem is not the art itself, but how the art is taught and applied. Good martial art instructors prepare their students (like mine does) for the "ugly" moments. Of course, we're training to go home at night, not to win a bout, so there are some differences...
@@Outrider74 yeah as often happens is that when arts are pressure tested with hard sparring they slowly tend to look more and more alike with only small nuances being different.
Dia duit. Thank you so very much for the videos you make, I legitimately enjoy them quite a lot. I particularly like your Irish stock fighting videos and I hope to see more of them in the future. I can never seem to find good content regarding the topic, so you channel is a blessing. Thank you very much for everything you do, and I wish you all the best.
You're making some good points. When I was younger I used to think very poorly of combat sports like boxing, wrestling or muay thai because my idea of how 'skillful fighting' should look like was very strongly linked to acrobatic martial arts demos and highly choreographed fight sequences in kung fu movies. It took me years to understand that contact-based combat sports don't look they way they look because of some inherent lack of 'artfulness' but simply because real unchoreographed fighting ALWAYS looks messier and more chaotic than choreographies regardless of what fighting style you're using. Ironically, today when I look at a skilled boxer or grappler I'm able to appreciate a beauty and technical sophistication in their game that I hardly ever see during those rare instances where traditional martial arts practitioners actually decide to go at it with full-body commitment.
@@MartyDee133 very well put I often use the example of a dance. A lot of traditional arts simply practice a dance and don't aim to hurt each other. In contact arts it's like doing a dance while the other person tries to slam you or knock you out. It can look pretty in moments but often doesn't unless you have an understanding of what your looking at.
Thank you! Great video! In my early martial arts years I struggled a lot with why I never managed to pull off any 10 step katas in sparring situations, often not even getting to step 2 because I was rudely interrupted by my opponent's incoming weapon.
Great to see you back Nathan. Love your videos. Oooh 2nd channel, I like that. I agree with what you said, I saw a video with Jesse Enkamp fighting a BJJ guy, who only wanted the fight on the mat and Jesse was trying to stand up. Jesse tapped him out, but his commentary was great.
@@conlethberry1236 yep that video grinds my gears a bit. He got away with not engaging thanks to being a white belt but most other competitors would get heavily penalized for it. Then he finished with a classic bjj technique. He does some brilliant videos but definitely some that are click bait-ish
Now this is the content I needed. Thank you. I appreciate this short assessment from having it being explained by someone who's actually dedicated to this topic and has the intent to teach. For I having to be burned out from certain forms of longer-duration monologues and conversational content. I'm new here; RUclips's upload date filter brought me to this video, if you wanted to know.
Hello. Big fan of the channel. Speaking as an Irish stick instructor and a Karate instructor I will respectfully disagree on a few points. If we take an art like Karate, the crisp basics should not be there for 'snap' or aesthetics but for function (which leads to an outcome). If an untrained person pushes a broken down car, I guarantee they will drop into Zenkutsu Dachi (front stance) to do so. Because we all know that's how you generate forward power. If a kata has twenty moves, that's not a twenty move sequence. The Kata must be analysed and dismantled (bunkai) and the applications (oyo) practised in defensive scenarios with a partner (kumite) with varying levels of compliance or resistance. The reason for the heavily stylised stances and movements is also because Karate is not a kickboxing art. So when Jesse locks out his punching arm and pulls the other back to his hip, that's because as well as a punch this movement can represent a throw for example (henka - variations). Such as in a Judo clinch you push with one hand and pull with the other to unbalance. So in an art like fencing or Irish stick it is still important to have clean basics to avoid cutting corners and to train the efficient use of muscle groups In Karate when we rising block (Jodan Age Uke) the should and elbow must stay down to engage the shoulder with the back muscles for stability. This is something like a high parry with a weapon in that it is oblique and stable. And so that when we are in the heat of the moment in combat, the muscle memory creates good habits and doesn't cut corners. Good channel. Keep up the good work (ganbatte as the Japanese say)
Definitely agree. As well, another way to divide things up rather than "process vs outcome" is instead "self-defense vs dueling". Karate is supposed to be a clinch based system of self defense rather than a method of unarmed dueling. Kata are a syllabi of movement patterns rather than a collection of discrete techniques or a recording of a fight that happened one day in the past. You pull out each movement pattern and drill them in isolation and in combination with the other movement patterns in the kata to derive discrete techniques from those patterns. Kenwa Mabuni, the founder of Shito-ryu karate, demonstrated Karate in front of Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo, in 1928. Afterwards, Kano said that he considered Karate to be "a universal martial art" that should be spread throughout Japan, and said that if Mabuni were at the Kodokan, he'd be awarded a 4th dan in Judo "on the spot". That's how much grappling used to be in Karate, and how good karateka were at grappling.
@@MasterPoucksBestMan I have heard this a lot and I think a few things you mentioned are key. Especially that karate is supposed to be this way. Obviously there are exceptions but for want of a better term many of the main stream styles lack any grappling and train for very restrictive competitions based around first touch sparring and performative Kata. Rather than a well rounded self defence art.
Subtly and efficiency of movement are often primary considerations in martial arts. That is to say, effective martial arts are often specifically difficult for laypeople to understand, so they look unimpressive, much like the music that is actually really difficult to perform and a good demonstration of skill is very different from what laypeople think is a demonstration of it.
@@NevisYsbryd I read a study a few years on amateur and olympic boxers the only major difference was the ability for the olympic ones to relax quicker between punches. Basically being more efficient with movement. People as you say love a flashy demonstration but stuff like efficiently moving is hard to show yet is incredibly impressive at a high level.
In addition to Irish stick, I also study Wing Chun, and I can confirm your point. When we do gor sau (sparring with sticky hands), it gets very ugly very fast, even if both practicioners are skilled and know what they're doing. And that's on purpose because real fights often get up close and personal, so to speak.
This speaks to a point I've dealt with in talking with others about martial arts; they argue that martial arts are ineffective for actual fights. I've found that the problem is not the art itself, but how the art is taught and applied. Good martial art instructors prepare their students (like mine does) for the "ugly" moments. Of course, we're training to go home at night, not to win a bout, so there are some differences...
@@Outrider74 yeah as often happens is that when arts are pressure tested with hard sparring they slowly tend to look more and more alike with only small nuances being different.
Dia duit. Thank you so very much for the videos you make, I legitimately enjoy them quite a lot. I particularly like your Irish stock fighting videos and I hope to see more of them in the future. I can never seem to find good content regarding the topic, so you channel is a blessing. Thank you very much for everything you do, and I wish you all the best.
@@Thorne_MacGregor thank you so much for your kind words
Thank you! I try to explain this to my friends. Even an expert swordsman isn't going to float like a butterfly in a life or death fight.
@@troydodson9641 he might if he is lucky or against an unskilled opponent but adrenaline and life or death situations result in some crazy situations.
You're making some good points. When I was younger I used to think very poorly of combat sports like boxing, wrestling or muay thai because my idea of how 'skillful fighting' should look like was very strongly linked to acrobatic martial arts demos and highly choreographed fight sequences in kung fu movies.
It took me years to understand that contact-based combat sports don't look they way they look because of some inherent lack of 'artfulness' but simply because real unchoreographed fighting ALWAYS looks messier and more chaotic than choreographies regardless of what fighting style you're using.
Ironically, today when I look at a skilled boxer or grappler I'm able to appreciate a beauty and technical sophistication in their game that I hardly ever see during those rare instances where traditional martial arts practitioners actually decide to go at it with full-body commitment.
@@MartyDee133 very well put I often use the example of a dance. A lot of traditional arts simply practice a dance and don't aim to hurt each other. In contact arts it's like doing a dance while the other person tries to slam you or knock you out. It can look pretty in moments but often doesn't unless you have an understanding of what your looking at.
Thank you! Great video! In my early martial arts years I struggled a lot with why I never managed to pull off any 10 step katas in sparring situations, often not even getting to step 2 because I was rudely interrupted by my opponent's incoming weapon.
@@charlymicky1722 people tend to have a habit of doing that to me too 😅
Great to see you back Nathan. Love your videos. Oooh 2nd channel, I like that. I agree with what you said, I saw a video with Jesse Enkamp fighting a BJJ guy, who only wanted the fight on the mat and Jesse was trying to stand up. Jesse tapped him out, but his commentary was great.
@@conlethberry1236 yep that video grinds my gears a bit. He got away with not engaging thanks to being a white belt but most other competitors would get heavily penalized for it. Then he finished with a classic bjj technique. He does some brilliant videos but definitely some that are click bait-ish
Now this is the content I needed. Thank you. I appreciate this short assessment from having it being explained by someone who's actually dedicated to this topic and has the intent to teach. For I having to be burned out from certain forms of longer-duration monologues and conversational content.
I'm new here; RUclips's upload date filter brought me to this video, if you wanted to know.
@@cowtown9437 welcome aboard. I find ten minutes is enough of a rant for people. I hope you enjoy the channel.
Eastern Promises - Sauna Fight ruclips.net/video/qiMpBCfnjF8/видео.html
@@vyr01 yes a very good example.
Good to see u back
@@mrshindig1992 thank you
Great video brother. I think people are spoiled by martial movies hence projecting that expectation of the arts onto reality.
@@SoldierofChrist9 I agree. We live in a world of highlight reels and edited clips it makes for a skewed perception on how things actually are.
Hello. Big fan of the channel. Speaking as an Irish stick instructor and a Karate instructor I will respectfully disagree on a few points.
If we take an art like Karate, the crisp basics should not be there for 'snap' or aesthetics but for function (which leads to an outcome).
If an untrained person pushes a broken down car, I guarantee they will drop into Zenkutsu Dachi (front stance) to do so. Because we all know that's how you generate forward power.
If a kata has twenty moves, that's not a twenty move sequence.
The Kata must be analysed and dismantled (bunkai) and the applications (oyo) practised in defensive scenarios with a partner (kumite) with varying levels of compliance or resistance.
The reason for the heavily stylised stances and movements is also because Karate is not a kickboxing art. So when Jesse locks out his punching arm and pulls the other back to his hip, that's because as well as a punch this movement can represent a throw for example (henka - variations). Such as in a Judo clinch you push with one hand and pull with the other to unbalance.
So in an art like fencing or Irish stick it is still important to have clean basics to avoid cutting corners and to train the efficient use of muscle groups
In Karate when we rising block (Jodan Age Uke) the should and elbow must stay down to engage the shoulder with the back muscles for stability.
This is something like a high parry with a weapon in that it is oblique and stable.
And so that when we are in the heat of the moment in combat, the muscle memory creates good habits and doesn't cut corners.
Good channel. Keep up the good work (ganbatte as the Japanese say)
@@simonkeegan5580 thank you for the support and explanation I'm not a karate guy so nice to get the information.
Definitely agree. As well, another way to divide things up rather than "process vs outcome" is instead "self-defense vs dueling". Karate is supposed to be a clinch based system of self defense rather than a method of unarmed dueling. Kata are a syllabi of movement patterns rather than a collection of discrete techniques or a recording of a fight that happened one day in the past. You pull out each movement pattern and drill them in isolation and in combination with the other movement patterns in the kata to derive discrete techniques from those patterns. Kenwa Mabuni, the founder of Shito-ryu karate, demonstrated Karate in front of Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo, in 1928. Afterwards, Kano said that he considered Karate to be "a universal martial art" that should be spread throughout Japan, and said that if Mabuni were at the Kodokan, he'd be awarded a 4th dan in Judo "on the spot". That's how much grappling used to be in Karate, and how good karateka were at grappling.
@@MasterPoucksBestMan I have heard this a lot and I think a few things you mentioned are key. Especially that karate is supposed to be this way. Obviously there are exceptions but for want of a better term many of the main stream styles lack any grappling and train for very restrictive competitions based around first touch sparring and performative Kata. Rather than a well rounded self defence art.
Subtly and efficiency of movement are often primary considerations in martial arts. That is to say, effective martial arts are often specifically difficult for laypeople to understand, so they look unimpressive, much like the music that is actually really difficult to perform and a good demonstration of skill is very different from what laypeople think is a demonstration of it.
There is also that people's expectations are strongly colored by confusing contact sports with violence.
@@NevisYsbryd I read a study a few years on amateur and olympic boxers the only major difference was the ability for the olympic ones to relax quicker between punches. Basically being more efficient with movement. People as you say love a flashy demonstration but stuff like efficiently moving is hard to show yet is incredibly impressive at a high level.
Great video. Very good content
@@diegomdonola7188 thank you very much.
Maith a dúirt é👌🏼
@@WarriorAttributes grma