No in giving compassion to others you also give it to yourself theres no shortage of compassion it is limitless. Self love does not exclude compassion nor forgiveness.
@@ileanahope466, what kind of nonsense are you spewing? No one needs to give compassion to a narcissist. You sound just like a narcissist trying to gaslight folks into compassion. 😂😂😂😂They certainly don’t have any for anyone else. Screw off.
Menal issues are not peoples fault some are born to get it some from trauma its ok to feel compassion cause for alot they don't have the choice cause there brain doesn't function as those without. That doesn't mean you have to support them ori like them and so on. Just as those who have diseases that they had no way to prevent are not at fault. That doesn't mean you don't try and get help for it or use it to your advantage to hurt others and get what you want. That doesn't need compassion..
@@bellaswan1459, victims of narcissist do not have to feel guilt or compassion for them. End of story! Stop trying to gaslight people into your thoughts. These victims have spent plenty of time feeling guilty and being compassionate to these people. It is the victims time to heal their mental trauma from the narcissist. None of that requires compassion. The best the a victim of a narcissist can do is go no contact and act like they are dead!
They are nice when they have their supplies, admiration and attention. Otherwise they turn into monsters. Good luck to everyone who is affected by a narc. If you can run today. It never gets better.
Sometimes people who have learned to act like that because a parent did can learn a different way with treatment if an intervention is done in early adulthood.
@@FrancesShear agreed, i found out about this topic a year ago and i am 42. Now trying to unlearn my own narcissistic behaviours and i broke with my mother. If you can see the patterns and you have some decency you will try to adjust. Because well, narcism is basicly what is destroying our society today. Wish i had dr. Grande as a teacher when i was in puberty, this knowledge is truly something everyone should know.
It only gets worse! I had to go permanent no contact with my elderly mother in law because she escalated her years worth of abuse on me to physically assaulting me. I gave her verbal warnings to stop the abuse but she never quit, she even attempted to brainwash me in front of my husband and we both verbally told her to stop it. She lied to the police saying she was too old and sickly to hit me and she got away with it. She has access to three people and it is disgusting how they support her abuse. It's so covert she has a public persona where she wears a fake mask and a private persona behind closed doors where the horrid abuse happens for years. Stay away from narcissists, period.
I took care of my 89 yrs old mom and because I am the only child, I felt it is my duty to take care of her cause no one else will help. It was so toxic that I was getting sick physically as well as my soul. I normalized the abuse because I lived with it all my life. I always believed that I can heal their wounds by loving them unconditionally. In turn I hurt myself. Thank you for your information. I am finally waking up that these people have evil streaks in them and will not change.
I'm there. I am doing exactly like you did. Trying to rise above and love unconditionally. Worried sometimes that it will get to me more deeply than I'm aware of and mental instability (depression, anxiety, PTSD) will all take hold again. I'm 62 and still stuck and controlled by my mother. One evening a week for a couple of hours is all now. But soon it will require more. Praying for ability to do what's needed. To love them and forgive them.
That is my situation exactly. Mom turned 90 in July. I was not invited. Family has succumbed to Narc manipulation or have turned into Narcs themselves. I took care of aging Mom virtually by myself for decades. Instead of being honored for my service?? I got piled on. No gold watch , no pay, no social security, no purple heart, or even a "Thank you for your service." I advise ppl to get away from these demonic Narcs before they lose their very life and soul. Cant get back the time wasted on these demonic creatures. They are iredeemable.
I too am an only child. I tried to take care of my father. He lived with me for quite some time until I realized he was running game with government entities from my home then denying it he had anything to do with it when they confronted us about it. Thank God the local law knew me and my husband. I would've ended up in jail for a myriad of things and he would've watched em cuff me.
Michele Kurlan exactly they HATE AGING they get worse trust me they are enraged by that and they just find other ways to get their needs met TRUST ME I have experienced with this hell
@@GMarieBehindTheMask I agree, they get much worse. They leverage their age and disabilities against you to manipulate even further through guilt and gaslighting. It is a hell if you are entangled with one of these demons. A hell unlike any other.
I rarely disagree with your take. This time I do. Narcissist become much worse as they age. The skills and charm and beauty is gone. What is left is an empty, needy vessel full of rage and bitterness at the betrayal of their body and the betrayal in the mirror. They are horrible, dreadful to deal with and seem to desire getting their last shot in before they leave this world. Awful!
Absolutely. The one I dealt with hated me to her last breath and used her last functioning synapse to lash out in any way she could. I performed my moral duty so that I could move on with a clear conscience. No regrets.
@@catharinepizzarello4784 good for you that you had the strength to do it. I like to think that once they cross over, they have a change of heart and will make it up to you
From my observation, as they age, they say things that make you believe they are different but when you pay attention, they just hide their secrets better. They may slow down a little because of ageing, but you see through the cracks if you pay attention. The patterns are always there.
They still need to generate a lie (secret) to a perceived attack. I saw this the other day and it caused me much laughter, especially because they have no idea I know. Fools!
Chew Chewy I read the above and thought of my mother, blind and more reliant as she aged, even (weirdly) wanted a hug when visited. That felt so unnatural and repulsed me with her because I hadn’t grown up with it. She became so ‘sweet’ and hated (sulk face) that we could say ‘no.’ It wasn’t till after she died I tripped across that her behaviour had a name.
Oooo they will prey into people who doesn't know them... Pity plot : "Im the good old person who get abandoned by their selfish family" Yiiiiiiiiikes 🤢🤮😖😑
They get even more cunning and craftier. They use their age and dissabilities as their weapon of choice to manipulate ppl. Especially they guilt and manipulate their children.
@S Robin Thats for sure. They change up their game and it works. Guilt and ordering you to be their slave basically. No respect and no gratitude. In the end. they tell everyone that you did nothing for them, even tho you basically gave up a large portion of your life to them. She is a major big mouth gossiper. I thank God she is not on the internet But my greedy souless sister does. so the smear campaign has reached far and wide. I hope God has a special place for these soulless creatures when they pass.
@L. Isabela Montez It's so very painfull, being in the relationship with Narcs, or.. trying to get out... and then the long recovery period. I wouldn't wish it on anyone> except Narcs themselves.
Absolutely! How about this, took all his money, closed out joint account and now wants to sell the house and not pay the car payment, his only "tangible" assets. Never understood the value of money, it's just a weapon!
@@jadeanjoun Money is their most powerful tool to control and manipulate the people around them. After a marriage of 14 years with a narcissist ex-husband I can certainly approve that.
I feel that ageing narcissists can’t hold their mask up for long periods and start to blurt out their intentions without realizing it. They expose themselves pretty quickly.
What is so hard for me to understand is how those who are still having to be caring for the older narcissist out of a sense of duty which is their adult children most of the time now that divorce is less stigmatized than it used to be -- While admitting to the other parent how the narcissist is getting worse in their negative behavior whenever they have to care for them while their manners to anyone in the outside world including the other parent who left them becomes far better. With their such all the time improving charm and improving skill at showing good manners believe it or not it has been the case that the odd outsider looking on will drop by for an impromptu visit to the non-narcissistic divorced to give an awful warning to that parent/spouse who left that if they do not show kindness to that narcissist there could be gloom and doom some day.
I have see an increase in manipulative behavior as the narcissist ages. When they can no longer use their looks and charm to manipulate people they can become more controlling, argumentative, bossy and falsely caring.
They will leave hand written wills around the house leaving everything to you IF... You will take care of them until they die. I laughed and said "you are just mean enough to outlive me, donate your crap to your church-I'm outta here".
@@unpluggeddogdreams LOLOL, OMG I love it. You did the right thing. It took me longer, but "Mission accomplished". I am almost a year no contact with Narc Mom, wish I had done it sooner. And I remember hearing my dear Narc Mom saying that she will outlive all her children.. she is 90 now so I suppose its a possibility? But I am finally free. Its a beautiful thing.
I have had 3 Narc's in my lifetime. My older sister, my father and an X spouse. I can assure you they don't get better and more often get a lot worse with age. Best thing I have ever done is to go NO CONTACT about 20 years ago. If you have a middle aged Narc in your life, don't take any chances and get out while your still able.
He’s 75 and lost sexual ability, by which he gauged his power over women. It’s led to depression and his insecurity and fear come out as bursts of anger. He does seem lonely, but refuses to allow anyone completely “in” He IS NOT less dangerous. He still tries to control, manipulate, lies, cheats in his superficial relationships. He’s taken to using his aging to becoming a victim! Because he drinks and at an age where he remembers less, it causes him to mix up who he lies to and what he said. Yes! He did refine his technique. You’re right. Thank you for all the enlightening information you’ve provided.
At age 76, but still immature, he has his few faithful minions, but wants his money to control damaged kids, grandkids. Stil sees others as dishonest, manipulative, etc. He knows no regretEXCEPT for ONE RICH, HIGH PROFILE WOMAN that had no longterm need/use for him.
So true! They pretend to change once they are cornered, but, when opportunity arrives, they get into their old narc self. Like cameleons ... ironically, what is changing are lives of those around them: for the worse ...
I am not sure of my own problem or difference i suppose. I know i fit a category somewhere along the lines of a narcissist or a sociopath or some other denomination along that lines but i think narcissism fits best. That being said i have adhd and though I consistently come from the point of view that i am right and i am in the right and always the most important, i cant help that or my inability to figure out others emotions. I have overcome this in a vary basic way. I put myself in everyones shoes before i act or carry out judgement. I try to reason my own actions or thoughts through another’s perspective but often i make an alignment between myself and others that aren’t usually there. The general result i tend to view others in a more favorable light in almost every instance. Even when arguing with a person (in a debate like manor not confrontationally) and im unable to sway or manipulate their view i still view this person as like me and therefore my equal if that makes sense. I think of myself as a narcissist and i do my best to hold myself to a moral code and though im only simulating the social interaction and stopping my bad behavior im trying to change. My initial reaction is always from my point of me knowing best and i am better and i am trying to become better but it all is achieved by that need to view myself as better. So in short all my actions are not genuine and are calculated based on how i want to be seen which is manipulative the vary thing i try not to do. I guess you are both right and wrong we can act better but i do not know if i can be better. Hopefully that’s enough
I was raised by a narcissist mother. I didn't figure it out until middle age. All of romantic partners were narcissists. I finally figured out that my attraction wires were all messed up. Thank you Dr Grande for these videos on narcissism. They are so helpful
I was raised by a narc, my brothers are both narcs and now my daughter. all of my marriages and relatinships were narcs. Please tell me abuot this attracton wiring???
Usually, when the narcissist gets older the physical, mental, and resources to influence their actions diminished greatly. But this lack of interaction is replaced by loneliness, winning, blame, and projected guilt or assigning shame to others because of what is happening to them. As they grow older the rage increases and, unfortunately, nobody wants to deal with them because they have left behind a pathway of destruction.
My Narc mother got worse, to the point that I have had to go no contact. Difficult decision when a parent is in their 80's. Feeling a lot of guilt but the damage to myself and my husband was too much. I had no choice if I wanted to remain sane. Have to add that the whole family is dysfunctional. Physically, emotionally abusive with me as scapegoat. Tried ignoring, distancing etc . Nothing stopped them but no contact. Wasn't a decision I made lightly.
I’m going no contact soon with my whole family . Please could you give me some advice about no contact with my family to make this easier for me. I’m feeling so destroyed just thinking about it!!
@@alexbaird2670 Oh yes... every time I think of the alternative I am reminded of pictures of myself with that desperate and so infinetly sad look in my eyes... No.
Didn't happen with my parents. My goodness, they got worse with age - it was astonishing. At age 50 - I went no contact because they completely unhinged from being able to shroud their abuse with a warped connection to reality - they just threw reality aside and all bets were off.
I am no contact now with elderly Narc Mom. She is pure poison. I never thought I would be one of those ppl going no contact with a parent. But as she grew more wicked and viscious I joined the no contact club. I had to. It became a matter of life and death for me.
I have an 80 yr old Narc and my sister and I live here to care for her... she is the ONLY one in the house that is NOT sick all the time. We are always sick and exhausted!
I follow forums pretty closely for children of narcissists and my observation is that when narcissists age they get so much worse to the point where many aging narcissists ostracize one of their children, or the victim goes "no contact". Scapegoats seem overwhelmingly to be left out of Wills, so they feel they have nothing to lose - they feel that if they stay, they will be more abused than ever, and then afterward be left out of the Will. There have been many discussions of the latter. Maybe an aging narcissistic parent will try to victimize by proxy, but so many of the narcissists' scapegoats abandon or are abandoned by narcissistic parents. There is no glue, no incentive, in a scapegoat role.
Marie B, I see a whole lot of this going on! From my experience talking with many, many survivors, a lot of narcs steal (what they did to you is illegal) they scapegoat the lack of empathy is very apparent they are into smear campaigns they will put money above familial bonds Describing you as "evil" is concerning (because they use projection, in other words, it probably means they are evil - it's worth it to hear what they say if only for the projection vantage point).
@@fibretowne I'm so sorry. But you aren't alone. My guess would be that something around 85 - 90 percent of scapegoat children of narcissistic parents get left off of Wills and Trusts, whether they are caretaking or not. Let's not forget that it is the narcissist who decides these roles. The way that survivors respond to abuse is: fawn, fight, flight or freeze (avoid). The narcissist will never let a scapegoat fawn - if the scapegoat tries to fawn the narcissist will say things to his victim like "I don't believe you", "Good try, but I don't buy your attitude," "It's not like you to care about me" and other such phrases. So that leaves only the other three responses left. Scapegoats receive a lot of injustice, and how does injustice play out? By trying to get the scapegoat to react (in anger or tears). The anger induces the narcissist to hope you will fight with them (so that they can win in a dirty way, going after your character, your looks, your tone of voice, or the fact that you are angry - all erroneous blaming), or if they have you in tears they will call you a cry-baby, weak, "a poor victim", etc. It's demeaning beyond anything most people can imagine. And all planned by the narcissist!
Yes this scapegoat got away.My mother has got mire manipulative,and is unashamedly demanding ,mean and entitled.Sadly to avoid my mother being privy to info about me I have to limit my coversations with my siblings.
Worse! The manipulation and devaluation really do become extreme! I saw that in 2 Overt and 1 Covert Narc. They are, as you suggested Dr. Grande, more practiced, so they can "do more with less", and it's easy to underestimate them until they attack. Horrible creatures!
That is very true. They lure and manipulate while using their age and health status as a weapon of choice. If they still own a house or have a bank account...? then they will also use that to lure, manipulate and control.
Bonnie55317 Oh yes! The Covert, who had both a house and money, tried to convince me to marry him ... he obviously wanted a nurse, a caregiver, a housekeeper, cook, etc. ... He said, "You would have my annuity!" I just said, "I don't need your annuity, thanks." which surprised him. I guess he thought anyone would be for sale.
Thanks for the laugh. [as I question what's possible with my parents in the years ahead, they are 88 & 89 and I haven't seen them in 12 & 8 years respectively, and we function via limited contact through a dedicated email address that I can ignore for a month if I"m not up for it].
Thank you for doing videos on and including vulnerable narcissists. My mother is an aging narcissist, and while the manifestation of her narcissism has always been primarily vulnerable, she is now retreating fully into the vulnerable type. There is SOOOO much information available on the grandiose type and comparatively little on the primarily vulnerable type- not to mention how it manifests during different life stages. For a long time I was confused, because she was obviously abusive but didn’t fit the extroverted, grandiose type. It wasn’t until I stumbled on you speaking of the differences that the vulnerable narc manifests before her pathology clicked into place for me. And there is very little information out there about aging narcissism and how it changes and affects the senior narc. Thank you for your insights, and thank you for covering this type of narc that doesn’t get much “press”.
Practice makes perfect and they are increasingly dangerous as they age!!!!! Lock these sick freaks up this is one of the worst kind of human being WORST!!
This is definitely a very interesting topic ! Thank you Dr. Grande. I was married to two of these Narc's. The first was a covert and the second was a grandiose type. Both types are always reaching out for new supply. They can be exceptionally nice to others while treating you like garbage on a personal level. Now I can understand why it becomes more difficult for them to find and influence new supply as they age. Lets face it, other older people get wise to their crap and don't care to deal with them. That leaves them with their spouse and children to try and manipulate. Most of their children don't want to deal with them either. That leaves their spouse. As Dr. Grande mentions they get more lonely as they age. that leaves them with only one source of supply. The spouse. Obviously they will double down on their only supply they have left. And if that supply passes on before they do,,,,, Well, eventually they end up in a nursing home. None of the surviving family visits them and the nursing home staff hates having to deal with them too !!
I have seen how my mother has mistreated and was demanding of hospital staff members when she was only in there for 11 days due to pneumonia. She sat there like a queen demanding what she wanted, when she wanted. Her bed bed was constantly ringing from her demands. Then she would complain that the staff didnt attend to her "Fast enuf". I cant imagine when she eventually goes to a nursing home. I feel sorry for the ppl who take care of such viscous selfish elderly Narcs. It's nightmarish.
Thanks Wistundra for the ahead of time heads up. I better be prepared for their doubling down with hopes of getting me back under the same roof if and when my children don't want to deal with them anymore at all. I need to have a plan as to what acts of kindness I can in safety offer in return to their efforts to get me back and a safety plan if they surprise me with an attack when they detect that I am never going back to them.
I agree the worst ppl are ever cared for were in care homes I understand why families don’t visit . I left couldn’t stand being in the same room with some of them!
Thank you Dr Grande. Your video confirms what I have read about people with those narcisstic traits...they do not change. Because they have burned so many Bridges, or have narcisstic children of their own, their circle of influence is very small....at best they become more clever devils in their delivery. I have witnessed this in an ex mother inlaw. Still manipulative and playing the victim...
Interesting how so many people have this idea that when one ages they become more mellow, easier to deal with, and less aggressive self centered or manipulative, if they had some of these narcissistic personality traits when younger. Almost as if all elderly people are frail and nice and just want some company. I work with the elderly and so this video was very interesting on a personal level. I have worked with women who are absolutely verbally abusive and manipulative, and they do get worse as they get older. I noticed that the children of these elderly women rarely visit and when they do, they make sure to limit their visits to twice a week for about 15 minutes. Sad but it's probably their way of protecting themselves from verbal abuse. But then, maybe these children are also narcissistic, as they also seem to have no empathy for their parent whatsoever. Elderly women (generally speaking), seem to be able to hold grudges, be vindictive and act more self centered than men. They have more resentment towards their children, expecting their children to devote themselves to them. The elderly men seem to be more laid back and just lonely, whereas many of the elderly women become more bitter. This would be an interesting case study in itself.
My Narc Mom was abusive to the staff in the hospital when she had pneumonia. I could see the hurt on the staffs face. I know all too well what that feels like. I was embarassed to even be associated with her.
I’ve always found older women generally worse than older men. Not that males are perfect, but old ladies are easily one of the nastiest demographics you can get. With age they seem to lose all subtlety as well. Of course there are very sweet old women around too.
Some elderly people are so saintly in how they are not apt to complain that is true. But like Dr. Grande says in contrast when it comes to a narcissist as they age instead they get better at manipulation which includes the art of seduction with charm -- That is until they get you into their spider's web of lies entrapped enough for them to feel safe in showing you their ugliest side often.
I’m living with my 92 year old stepmom, who was a child during WW2, Germany. I understand the root of her narcissism, and know her mom was also a narcissist. Her jabs at me are now more like a dog with no teeth! She doesn’t have leverage now, she needs me. I’m the only one standing between living at home, or going to elder care. I’ve been here for just over a year, and have found my voice with her, I was so intimidated as a child. I speak my mind, am kind, but do not hold back. It is super hard, caregiving, but I have made some personal progress, and it’s not forever....
My dad was a vulnerable narcissist, I was his codependent all the way to the grave. I waited for that moment when he’d say he was sorry it never came. I was only free of him after seeing him completely helpless in his final days.
How did you feel after he passed? I would imagine very conflicted.... I will be passing that bridge soon with my Malignant Narc Mom. She is 90 now and still as destructive and toxic as ever... and worse.
Bonnie55317 I actually was there with hospice the last days, it gave me peace to see him with out his mask, completely broken and helpless, but not in a manipulative way. I was able to let him and a lot of resentment go.
Your clinical experience is right Dr. My mother went fron raging narc to covert manipulative narc. Oh she milked that poor little old.lady me. You are so knowledgabe. Thank you.
Reminds me of a joke I read recently. "I'm 75 years old and the only way I could get together with a younger woman was to lie about my age." "How old did you tell her you were?" "85."
My narcissist father managed to enforce the guilt induction over my mother in his last days. He died from cancer without considering that he could actually die, so there was no final words or final enlightnment for him. He was in his deathbed as narrowminded as he was in life, consistently transfering his emotional burdens to her.
The narc that I was involved with got worse much worse with age. All he thought about was p**** and he was 84 years old in other words he was a dirty old man. And probably was a dirty young man too
I couldn’t disagree more❗️ My father got much worse before he died in his early 80s and my husband gets worse every year he’s alive and he’s in his mid-50s.
Watch the video to the end. He said and I'm just summing it up "if someone that was 15 years younger than another person and they were to go to the ring, the younger guy would heal faster but the person 15 years older has mastered more moves". The narcissist is going to keep evolving into a bigger narcissist. They get more manipulative and more subtle
I don't think it's narcissistic to not want to help a parent with high narcissism or NPD. For example, my Father neglected my needs in childhood, cut me off totally at age 13 and is negative and abusive to me whenever we (rarely) meet. In fact the abuse gets worse and worse with time in my case. He's almost 80 now, I'm almost 50. He has never apologised for anything he has ever done, and gets joy if I'm in pain or struggling- I'm totally done at this stage!
Many NPD fall apart in old age, turn to alcohol or drugs to deal with the reality of their own mortality and faced with their own failures. Depression and social isolation becomes more and more common as they become bitter. May also end up homeless or in a mental hospital
Thank you Dr Grande. Very interesting and I learned a lot. Frightening actually. My dad was a very dangerous narcissist. He got depressed as he aged. It appeared he had no one left to manipulate so he put a gun to his face and killed himself. I think he was in his 80’s. I had been discarded by both parents many years ago so I heard this thru my sister. Frankly I was relieved because he was very evil. His reign of manipulation and deceit came to an end.
From my personal experience, it's exactly how you describe it. My narcissist still tries to undermine me from time to time, it's really annoying. I'm no longer the main target. I've been the scapeagoat for decades, not a pleasant experience, which left me quite scarred. It took me a long time to recover and forgive. And lots of no contact, of course. She's obviously not interested im me and it's mutual, so I limit our contact to small talk at a minimum.
You described the aging parent in my life to a tee. Limiting exposure to her was vital to my mental health, although I felt called to come along side her to assist when she declined. Taking the parental reins at first was very hard as she was extremely strong willed and it was her way or the high way, most often. But little by little as I showed love, honesty, and dependability, she was able to let go of her control and let me lead. But I really need the Lord to give wisdom each and every day. Thanks for the validation, Dr. Grande. I think you know this type so very well! 😉
This is happening to my narc father right now. He was diagnosed with dimentia last year and it has been absolutely bizarre watching the loud and aggressive control freak in my life morph into a weak and fragile man. As angry as I am at him, I can't help but feel sorry for him.
As someone who looked after a covert narc mother until the day she died of dementia, I would recommend you try, if you are able, to do the same with your father. Watching a person devolve into a child like state (which is what dementia does) is the best therapy you will ever receive in that it will reconcile the two of you back together as the dominant becomes the dependent and everything comes full circle. That is worth $1 million worth of couch therapy. You have a duty to your father as I did to my mother. When it is all over you will become like a saint walking on earth and largely resistant to any other Narc you ever meet, as soon as you recognize them for what they are.
EXCELLENT presentation! I like that you are talking about DIFFERENT topics on Narcissism (vs re-gurgitating the same stuff all the other experts are discussing (such as "dating, /"romantic relationships w/Narcs). But that's not the only encounters we have with these life-sucking people! My Narcissist situation is a wicked neighbor that does all these malicious antics with an agenda to try and get me to move(!)
I feel I've been a victim of my husband's narcissism for 34 years. I'm not the gullible girl I once was. I think you're absolutely right about how I feel towards my husband. However, I now see his ways as a disability and do not expect him to change, and although it's supremely unpleasant, I'm not as affected as I used to be.
34 yrs Wow , I made 20 , but just barely , I left to visit family and he basically let me know he is done with me so now I guess I’ll be staying where I am.
@@maria2400 ....I had to divorce him. I gave up a lot to do that too...financial stability and an intact home for 5 children. But he just got worse and worse.
Yes it was very conflicting. As the only female and older child, I was the chosen. But; God and its angels were looking after me when they sent people like you intoy life. Thank you Dr.
Absolutely. If ever the kind, loving person I knew as my mother really existed, this version of her has definitely vanished. I try to keep that part in my memory but I cannot bear what she is now.
Vicious says it. My husband abused the kind and caring nurses and resident doctors during his hospitalizations, but manipulated his own doctors shamefully. He abused his visitors and me too.
This was a good summary, Dr Grande, thank you ... It's my father's birthday on Sunday; I was the second of his three children to be alienated ... The pain of not having the relationship you always wanted with a parent never goes away, but it does become less amplified; the pain of it, during our relative youth, turns to 'mere' sadness (and pity, for both/all of us) with understanding ... but that's the best one can hope for, ime ... :/
I really appreciate your videos. The different personality disorders are very well explained. And unlike other channels, they are supported by research. I have seen how many videos that simply demonize the narcissistic personality disorder. I prefer to understand it. Of course, I had to move away to protect myself. But to understand this personality disorder makes it possible to realize that people with it are suffering too. And it makes you aware rather than hate. To hate someone we have loved is also very painful.
Its easy to understand, very easy, at least with the male narcissists. They get their self esteem, their roots, their feeling of beeing rooted, their inner strengh, their backbone, their masculinity from their father. Froma loving father who gives him recognition. But with feminist divorce rights you just have tons of male narcissists and it will get worse in future the way western society is heading. Mother can be AS loving as they want, they still create the worst kinds of narcissistic sons. You see it everywhere, bmy best friend is that type, and hes even self aware about the abismal hole, his lacking father left in him. It disrupts and damages even the realation to the mother badly.
Extraordinary analysis ! You have depicted my aging mother(octogenarian)sucking everything out of my younger brother's life . My elder brother is a malignant narcissist,only abuses her(though he is still her golden child).
My brothers have not changed their tactics toward me in all their years. They have gotten worse because they no longer care if they impress others. My mother was mean spirited to the very end of her life. I have worked to stay away from my family for years and finally am able to stay away completely. People who have been acting badly all their lives are in a habit of it, they cannot just let go of what they have done all their lives. They also married narcissistic people who use the same meanness to affect others. I have decided to never go to the funerals of these people. Their spouses have acted all their lives that they don't like me, it makes no sense to go to be a support to someone who does not value my support. They have others they have gathered around them who they do like, let them be their comfort.
@@MasterBlaster220 our father was very selfish, when I would talk to him it was as if there was no one inside. Our mother dominated him terribly but it was because he made very foolish decisions.
@@gwendolynwehage6336 Males with narcississm have nearly always a father complex, something that science doenst want to explain, because feminist politics forbids it. Feminist divorce rights are the reason why there are 80% of narcississts that are male.
@@MasterBlaster220 We are living in a time of "raging insanity" in which normal and natural things are turned upside down and backward. God said it would be this way toward the end of the age. In 2 Timothy 3, we see the prophecy that is being fulfilled right now. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 Difficult (actually means in the original language "ragingly insane" Times Will Come "3 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, slanderers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, [a]haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power; avoid such people as these." Women now have a disdain for their femininity and expect men to act and react just like them. I have been a homemaker all my life, doing many diverse things, totally fulfilled in my chosen lifestyle, but the narcissistic women and some men mocked and demeaned me for my choice. I am educated and capable but they chose to believe I was stupid and unworthy of respect because I saw the value of being the CEO of our household. I was alone a lot but never bored because I enjoyed my JOB, yes I said that. If we do our job correctly we will never feel as though it is a worthless career choice.
I’m dealing with an alcoholic 71 y/o malignant narcissist who is my mother. I am an ACES survivor of trauma and neglect she caused to me when she was 15 when she had me. I ran away at 16 and later joined the military to unlearn the NPD behaviors she refuses to deal with her own childhood traumas. After my Military I got my M.Ed, in Literacy to help and understand behaviors in learning (neuro/psychology and behaviors). I am an empath and I am also the family black sheep because I ran away at an early age. My only sibling sister is exactly like my Mom. Just like Dr. G’s video on this issue. Thank you Dr. G and Ramani for being experts and helping us navigate our lives! My mom hates I had an advanced degree and in the NARC form, she smeared me, attacked me for siding with the rehab ppl and in a rage, she took me off her POA two wks ago because I had an NCC (counseling certification) and understand the DSM, as I talked about concerns with her mental needs as she’s in rehab again for the 3 time this year. Cannot stop her drinking, driving and now she’s suicidal because We’re burnt out. I disagree when an aging narcissist has duel or multiple DSM issues such as substance and PTSD, it gets worse. I am a war veteran/soldier with PTSD and I will not stress my Lupus or mental health anymore. I must walk away, sadly. She will end up in an assisted living facility as she is verbally abusive and seriously antagonistically abusive/manipulative…to their end she will not validate her own pain nor the pain she’s still caused to my sister, me and , now my kids/ her grandkids. SADLY A TRULY NARCISSISTIC FIEND TO THE END! PRAYING FOR MY MOTHER AND HER SOUL!🙏🏽😔😢🧠💪🏾
I've lost my whole family and when I had a family of my own, my mother and sister went after my children. They will do anything to punish you for living a life free from their manipulation.
My therapist was quick to remind me my narc ex-boss would get worse with time because society ignores middle-aged women, so she will be incurring near-constant narc injuries and will need *more* supply, not less.
Sounds very familiar. Good advice. This can strike women who were exceptionally good-looking with a shock. It's hard to keep trading on a smile that people are no longer clamoring to see.
My sister to a T! She told me a while ago she started doing facial exercises everyday on the way to work 🤣 Her husband has to tell her she looks young all the time!
@XM woah what? This one is 40 about to be 41 in December. To me she looked the same as when we met. But that could just be me idk she's a big girl like 5 foot 7 240 pounds. I didn't mind I looked past tit bc she was soo cool and bad ass. After this discard, she began roller blading like she did when she was a teen and 19 etc. I guess to try and lose weight etc. I have no clue what she looks like now I blocked her on fb bc I'm not playing that fake look how happy I am now game. It's as of 13 yrs never happened. It's so BIZZAR
The boxing analogy is excellent, not least because being on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse can feel like being in a ring and ending up on the ropes a lot of the time. I think they get more adept at manipulation, better at concealment, they are real wolves in sheep’s clothing at these later stages in their lives. They can sometimes use their new vulnerability as an extra tool to exploit those around them. A particular one I know is perfecting the kind old lady persona, but she is still the manipulative, attention seeking narcissist underneath. They can also use financial leverage, inheritance, to keep family members hooked. Thank you Dr Grande
Dr. Grande, you are SPOT on! I appreciate your evaluation on what is my immediate situation. You have given me great courage to examine my relationship with open eyes and act accordingly! My gratitude and thankfulness to you sir!🤗
Interesting. I know a couple of older women who are with their narc husband because by that age, they have invested SO many years & if they left, they'd have to live off of $750 social security vs. the benefits they would get if they stick it out till he dies. You gotta eat.
Yes. My situation. I left, applied for early retirement, thinking that my auto immune problems would make it difficult for me to work. Well, can't survive on just 640 a month, so had to supplement by getting a job, and a job that won't send my income over SSR income limits. Meanwhile, my husband, (we are separated), makes a good sum of money. What it takes me, in a month to earn, he can make in one paycheck. Still, I am much happier, even if it is a struggle to get by, without him in my life.
I have been common law married to a Narc but left him about 19 years ago. Have no contact in all these years since I left. Cannot afford to file for divorce. I have one child with him who he hasn't seen since he was 2 and half years old. Best decision was to leave and go no contact. Was a living nightmare.
@@marlacarlson2586 Where do you live? In the United States, there is hardly anywhere that common law marriage is recognized. You do not need a divorce.
Thank you! I can recognize several of the things you describe, even though my mother was rather vulnerable than grandiose. Her last few years were really tough on me and my family (I was her only child). She died two years ago. I am now, slowly, recovering from all the anxiety, the guilt, and all sorts of other emotions.
They tend to get meaner, and are more aggressive, depending on their past successes, however the good news is that anyone above the age of 55 is not likely to be cognizant of being videotaped.
Don't be too sure of anything when it comes to what the computer literacy of any person over the age of 55 might be no matter what their family background is.
I've learned so much... Thank you!!!! For all the stress caused by a narcissist and with all this learning from months I'm a lot better. The funny thing is that all narcissists are the same. They all are programed with Windows Narcis... so predictable now haaha
Wrong! And nearly every comment here conveys my opinion: THEY GET WORSE! I've spent the last several years reuniting/helping two different elderly female family members. I was so confused and angry I put myself in psychological evaluation boot camp on YT. Females in particular get much worse for these reasons: -automatic attention from their looks are gone-they replace that in desperately sad ways! (these two have converted their old-school hustling skills to CIA-like psychological operations!) -their work titles now gone--they create situations where they can boss someone around/shame them. The added effort it now takes to get their daily narc fix creates anger and frustraction. -Their usually smooth manipulation tactics aren't quite the same as ahlzimers and memory loss begin. So when they find a new "low self-esteem" victim they have to maximize this opportunity because most everyone they knew are now gone.
Very true in my experience regarding female aging Narcs.Sex apppeal is less effective, so victim stories escalate smear campaigns and triangulation of children still in contact escalates.
Great video Dr. Grande! You made some excellent statements. A book I read, "The Force of Character" speaks similarly. Not about narcissism per se but showing that the ageing process actually reveals who we really are.
My elderly parents are both narcissists and I didnt think it could be worse than when I was a kid but boy was wrong! All the negative traits are amplified by 1000 and even small amounts of time around them is nearly unbearable.
Corresponding videos on aging borderlines, histrionics and psychopaths would be interesting too, especially with points of comparison across the types. Thanks as always for sharing your insight.
They stay exactly the same or get worse. I was my father's punching bag even in front of the nurses. The nurse pulled me aside and told me not to blame myself. It was him, not me. My father still triangulated and pitted my sister against me. He didn't have the strength anymore so he would get her to attack me.
Yes I realized last year why my two younger sisters treated me like crap. They were well trained by our father and they would do anything to avoid being his scapegoat. They were more than happy to let me continue in this role until I walked away and now they see what he’s really like.
LOVE your videos!! I've been the "victim" of 3 different narcissists back-to-back. I put victim in quotes because I've learned I'm not a victim and it's a choice to allow narcissists to do anything to you.
Me too. I can have a conversation with myself any time I want to now in whatever dramatic expression fashion that I feel like expressing at the time while knowing that I am not going to be constant interrupted by someone who is going to be offering me nothing of value while making demands on me for no pay or just to give me awful warnings about what is going to happen if I don't buy. Someone like that of course will have to be open then to be maybe later while it continues finding the police at their door next.
Clever human, keep it up. Me too, no contact, they can all be dying in front on me, beg, cry and go to hell, but not with me. No mercy! I'll show them who is the Narc :). Love as usual.
Also how many family members died early from living with them.?? Cancer, autoimmune diseases, food allergies, lack of care. The stories you hear in support groups will break your heart.
My co dependent Dad got cancer of the Throat (esopophageal) interestinglyif you know theories about why illness presents in certain body parts, and died at 43 they were married 16years . I noted some deterioration in their relating at around 13/14yrs like Dad hit her on the arm one day when her rant went on too long !! HE was not a violent person At the time I thought she deserved it.Guess who was the "voice"in our family.Guess who did all the hard grind ..yep the dead one.She got to play the ultimate victim though as we had 7 fatherless young children in our family to "help" aged 16 to 2y.
Dr. Grande, narcissists do not "pass away" , they are divine. 😊 You should know by now. Just as so many other subscribers I like the boxer story a lot. All the n. persons in my life where at least in their early 30ties. I personally don't find it appropriate to attribute narcissim to a person that is in their teens and twenties, I can't see what is wrong with them. Young people want to grow and they are ambitious. What you tell us about their aging is absolutely true. Older N. are more refined, they have a greater interpersonal toolbox, some manipulate in a very sophisticated way, esp. when they are highly intelligent. Once they throw their "bombs", they hit their target with elegance and almost effortless. I admit that I'm impressed by that. If it was not highly destructive to others, I would state, that this is a kind of art. If your ego does not stand in your way that much as it does in your younger years, you are likely to be far more effective with your strategies, as a young person is. The worst person of my life finally discarded me as a friend imo for the reasons you mentioned here. He couldn't be on the top, since a 60 year old person is clearly not stronger than a person in her forties is. He indeed tried to give me a guilt trip and saw himself as a victim of mine. It is many years ago , but when I hear a person speak like he did, and if it is just one single word, I am still extremely triggered and instantly fully alert. That's his legacy. So thank you so much for this video.
The aging narcissist gets worse. My partner is 78 is worse than ever, he act more entitled, manipulative , lies. The lies are unexplainable and do not make sense. He still knows everything better, they never admit that they are wrong, they never apologize. They will have a lonely end. His even more malignant narcissistic daughter took total control of him. He is not smart enough anymore to see it.
Mine is 62. I have noticed his raging and impatience is getting much worse. Not better. Also, he is impatient driver that gets road rage often. He has also been fighting a lot with the guys at his workplace. He is retiring this year. Not sure what the next chapter will be?
what you start talking about @ 10 mins in is so important, and so very true! All that I experienced 1st hand...and it was very sad, and tough to go through the confusing feelings.
From my experience, they tend to become more blatant and less subtle in their manipulating and verbal assaults especially when they become in charge and the wise elders or watchdogs have died off. Therefore, anyone who is around them for long periods of time may start to see the selfishness and deviousness. Not all senior citizens are wise and kind. Their tool box may be a bit rusty but tried and true so they love to keep using it to stab and maim. It is very painful, devastating, and confusing when you are the target.
Another excellent video. In my experience they become less narcissistic but are still able to retain some control and attention as normal empathic people tend to pity them.
I agree that they don’t get worse as they grow older. One of the difficulties that I’ve experienced when trying to highlight mean, narcissistic behaviours in the elderly is that people tend to dismiss the behaviours as being part of growing older, and try to get others to overlook the abuse being dished out. In other words old age becomes another mask behind which the now very skilled and experienced narcissist can hide. I have an elderly, narcissistic, female neighbour who lives across the road from me. I’ve known her for over 20 years, she’s in her seventies now, and her personality traits have not changed. She uses the aches and pains and reduced mobility to draw people in, playing on their empathy to get their support, and then she dumps her meanness on those trying to help her. She often gossips about other neighbours behind their backs, slagging them off and complaining that nobody helps her or supports her. This is not true as she receives a good deal of help and support from all of her neighbours. The only people who don’t offer any help or support are her children - a son and daughter who live nearby. In the past twenty off years I’ve only seen her daughter visit her mother about a half a dozen times. Her son, who lives 10 miles away, visits once a year. I’ve offered much help and support to her, mainly because she’s a widow (like myself) and I can see that she’s isolating herself by rejecting everything that is offered to her. I’ve had to stop offering anything because we’ve got ourselves stuck in a pattern of me offering something, she rejects the offer then she slags me off to other neighbours telling lies that she never sees or hears from me. There have been a number of disagreements between neighbours who have fallen for her games and they’ve all apologised one by one once they hear what I’ve been trying to do to help her. I now set clear boundaries with her and encourage her to lean on her children for help. I do the same with my neighbours. They don’t get worse as they get older, but nor do they improve (in my opinion). But I believe very strongly, that they use the vulnerability of old age as a mask to cover and excuse their narcissistic behaviours.
This was very upsetting to listen to as it was so descriptive of my situation. I guess I now realise that I never will hear those word of apology . Tough to hear but thank you for being so pragmatic.
No rest for the wicked, My narc always sleeps head faced at me, I build a pillow wall screew it I want sleep😂 they are demonds with out question. Knew somthing didnt add up found out about "narcissism " a couple months after she was pregnant😱😱 talk about a horror story, These videos help me alot thank you 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Try not to drink people it makes it alot worse they will use it against you to make them seem more "normal" alighn your escape low key get your ducks in order and bounce, they are tree's that dont produce and I see mine as forbidden fruit. Hope that helps somebody.
Thank you for the very helpful analysis. In my personal experience, I think her aging related depression led my covert narcissistic mother to intensify the guilt tripping. She got obsessed by the idea that, as she stated it, "now it's my turn", so, even more than before, everything should be for her and about her. Her effort backlashed, as it became so unbearable that I had to distance myself once and for all to protect myself. Actually at that point was when I started to learn about narcissism (I am 40 years old!), because also the discussions were leading to nowhere. As I am aging too, I do not have the energy anymore. Still I can definitely agree that one feels sorry. It is very hard to maintain but I had to decide for one of the lives to care about.
Narcs might tone it down and do more covert acts as they age. Usually they become sweeter to the golden child and other underlings beneath the golden child. This is usually because of a financial gain and they gravitate towards the high earner. If filial piety is a cultural norm, guilt inducing woeful type of behaviour ensues. Beneath it, they’re exactly the same. They just become more cunning with dwindling age and financial status.
I know one Narcissist with a lot of money and resources - got much worse as they aged and their cognition declined. Because they have money, they always have people to enable them. Another Narcissist I know is aging with very tight finances and not many acquaintances, and very few choices...so this person really struggles to act normal and to not drive people away.
I've seen this play out where the victim predeceased the covert narcissist; in his period of infirmity preceding his death he hoped for some expression and acts of compassion, caring, and concern from the narcissist, and hopefully some reciprocity and closure. Instead, the narcissist had already devalued and dehumanized him, and was already moving on to identify future sources of supply. He died an embittered man.
If you feel more guilt or compassion for the aging narcissist, STOP! Give that compassion to yourself instead. You deserve it most! 💖
No in giving compassion to others you also give it to yourself theres no shortage of compassion it is limitless. Self love does not exclude compassion nor forgiveness.
@@ileanahope466, what kind of nonsense are you spewing? No one needs to give compassion to a narcissist. You sound just like a narcissist trying to gaslight folks into compassion. 😂😂😂😂They certainly don’t have any for anyone else. Screw off.
Menal issues are not peoples fault some are born to get it some from trauma its ok to feel compassion cause for alot they don't have the choice cause there brain doesn't function as those without. That doesn't mean you have to support them ori like them and so on. Just as those who have diseases that they had no way to prevent are not at fault. That doesn't mean you don't try and get help for it or use it to your advantage to hurt others and get what you want. That doesn't need compassion..
@@bellaswan1459, victims of narcissist do not have to feel guilt or compassion for them. End of story! Stop trying to gaslight people into your thoughts. These victims have spent plenty of time feeling guilty and being compassionate to these people. It is the victims time to heal their mental trauma from the narcissist. None of that requires compassion. The best the a victim of a narcissist can do is go no contact and act like they are dead!
@@bellaswan1459 well, "narcissism" is not, actually, a "Mental issue" (like "depression", and/or "schizophrenia"); it's a "behavioural disorder" (like "sociopathy").
It definitely gets worse. The only times they are nice is when they fake being nice to get what they want.
They are nice when they have their supplies, admiration and attention. Otherwise they turn into monsters. Good luck to everyone who is affected by a narc. If you can run today. It never gets better.
Sometimes people who have learned to act like that because a parent did can learn a different way with treatment if an intervention is done in early adulthood.
@@FrancesShear agreed, i found out about this topic a year ago and i am 42. Now trying to unlearn my own narcissistic behaviours and i broke with my mother. If you can see the patterns and you have some decency you will try to adjust. Because well, narcism is basicly what is destroying our society today. Wish i had dr. Grande as a teacher when i was in puberty, this knowledge is truly something everyone should know.
It was always Fake.
It only gets worse! I had to go permanent no contact with my elderly mother in law because she escalated her years worth of abuse on me to physically assaulting me. I gave her verbal warnings to stop the abuse but she never quit, she even attempted to brainwash me in front of my husband and we both verbally told her to stop it. She lied to the police saying she was too old and sickly to hit me and she got away with it. She has access to three people and it is disgusting how they support her abuse. It's so covert she has a public persona where she wears a fake mask and a private persona behind closed doors where the horrid abuse happens for years. Stay away from narcissists, period.
I took care of my 89 yrs old mom and because I am the only child, I felt it is my duty to take care of her cause no one else will help. It was so toxic that I was getting sick physically as well as my soul. I normalized the abuse because I lived with it all my life. I always believed that I can heal their wounds by loving them unconditionally. In turn I hurt myself. Thank you for your information. I am finally waking up that these people have evil streaks in them and will not change.
I hope you will be able to figure out how to establish boundaries with them. Best of luck!
I'm there. I am doing exactly like you did. Trying to rise above and love unconditionally. Worried sometimes that it will get to me more deeply than I'm aware of and mental instability (depression, anxiety, PTSD) will all take hold again. I'm 62 and still stuck and controlled by my mother. One evening a week for a couple of hours is all now. But soon it will require more. Praying for ability to do what's needed. To love them and forgive them.
That is my situation exactly. Mom turned 90 in July. I was not invited. Family has succumbed to Narc manipulation or have turned into Narcs themselves. I took care of aging Mom virtually by myself for decades. Instead of being honored for my service?? I got piled on. No gold watch , no pay, no social security, no purple heart, or even a "Thank you for your service." I advise ppl to get away from these demonic Narcs before they lose their very life and soul. Cant get back the time wasted on these demonic creatures. They are iredeemable.
Stay strong. Sending you prayers and good vives. Please dont hurt. You had NOTHING to do with her sour soul.
I too am an only child. I tried to take care of my father. He lived with me for quite some time until I realized he was running game with government entities from my home then denying it he had anything to do with it when they confronted us about it. Thank God the local law knew me and my husband. I would've ended up in jail for a myriad of things and he would've watched em cuff me.
in 3 words:" it gets worse"
Michele Kurlan exactly they HATE AGING they get worse trust me they are enraged by that and they just find other ways to get their needs met TRUST ME I have experienced with this hell
What does personality factor and physics and chemistry in biology ?
They just get better and better at denying reality
@@GMarieBehindTheMask I agree, they get much worse. They leverage their age and disabilities against you to manipulate even further through guilt and gaslighting. It is a hell if you are entangled with one of these demons. A hell unlike any other.
Yes it does. God and its angels were looking after me for bringing people like this good Dr. and other youtubers like him.
I rarely disagree with your take. This time I do. Narcissist become much worse as they age. The skills and charm and beauty is gone. What is left is an empty, needy vessel full of rage and bitterness at the betrayal of their body and the betrayal in the mirror. They are horrible, dreadful to deal with and seem to desire getting their last shot in before they leave this world. Awful!
He said they get worse
Absolutely. The one I dealt with hated me to her last breath and used her last functioning synapse to lash out in any way she could. I performed my moral duty so that I could move on with a clear conscience. No regrets.
@@fallonrappaport5270 also said it decreases so he's counterdicting himself
Yeah, but he's talking about a specific type of narcissism/narcissists.
@@catharinepizzarello4784 good for you that you had the strength to do it. I like to think that once they cross over, they have a change of heart and will make it up to you
From my observation, as they age, they say things that make you believe they are different but when you pay attention, they just hide their secrets better. They may slow down a little because of ageing, but you see through the cracks if you pay attention. The patterns are always there.
Exactly it definitely stays the same and tends to worsen they could potentially kill at this age of life omg real dangerous lock hem f***** up!
Chew Chewy number 45 doesn’t seem to have become any less narcissistic, although he’s deteriorating cognitively.
They still need to generate a lie (secret) to a perceived attack. I saw this the other day and it caused me much laughter, especially because they have no idea I know. Fools!
@@DS40764
If her eyesight wasn't failing, do you think she would be behaving the same way?
Chew Chewy I read the above and thought of my mother, blind and more reliant as she aged, even (weirdly) wanted a hug when visited. That felt so unnatural and repulsed me with her because I hadn’t grown up with it. She became so ‘sweet’ and hated (sulk face) that we could say ‘no.’
It wasn’t till after she died I tripped across that her behaviour had a name.
Maybe as the narc gets older they have burnt too many people and bridges and nobody is around for them to be abusive to.
Lenore me One can hope!
Oooo they will prey into people who doesn't know them... Pity plot : "Im the good old person who get abandoned by their selfish family"
Yiiiiiiiiikes 🤢🤮😖😑
@@meaculpa22 I understand your pain...
@@TipTheScales27 i agree.
@@truthisburningthelies3053 ❤❤❤
They change their ways. Their methods get more subtle and passive aggressive.
100%
They get even more cunning and craftier. They use their age and dissabilities as their weapon of choice to manipulate ppl. Especially they guilt and manipulate their children.
@S Robin Thats for sure. They change up their game and it works. Guilt and ordering you to be their slave basically. No respect and no gratitude. In the end. they tell everyone that you did nothing for them, even tho you basically gave up a large portion of your life to them. She is a major big mouth gossiper. I thank God she is not on the internet But my greedy souless sister does. so the smear campaign has reached far and wide. I hope God has a special place for these soulless creatures when they pass.
@L. Isabela Montez It's so very painfull, being in the relationship with Narcs, or.. trying to get out... and then the long recovery period. I wouldn't wish it on anyone> except Narcs themselves.
Yes. The overt narcissist converts to covert narcissistic behaviors 😬
They get worse. They can play the “poor little meek old person” role and get what they want. Scary.
@Kylo Stefan Yea, have been watching on Flixzone for months myself =)
Certainly true👍🏻👍🏻
Absolutely! How about this, took all his money, closed out joint account and now wants to sell the house and not pay the car payment, his only "tangible" assets. Never understood the value of money, it's just a weapon!
@@jadeanjoun Money is their most powerful tool to control and manipulate the people around them. After a marriage of 14 years with a narcissist ex-husband I can certainly approve that.
He did get worse as he gets older
I feel that ageing narcissists can’t hold their mask up for long periods and start to blurt out their intentions without realizing it. They expose themselves pretty quickly.
Exactly. They must be exhausted.
I hope my mother unmasked her hatred towards me in front of siblings and friends but still, all are enablers and a few narcissists themselves.
@@Lyrielonwind we need to talk.
@@Lyrielonwind my exact situation too.
They won't say their exact intentions, but you'll see a can of lies and be able to put two and two together and figure out what their intentions are
I think they get worst (angrier, more rages, etc) as they grow older
What is so hard for me to understand is how those who are still having to be caring for the older narcissist out of a sense of duty which is their adult children most of the time now that divorce is less stigmatized than it used to be -- While admitting to the other parent how the narcissist is getting worse in their negative behavior whenever they have to care for them while their manners to anyone in the outside world including the other parent who left them becomes far better. With their such all the time improving charm and improving skill at showing good manners believe it or not it has been the case that the odd outsider looking on will drop by for an impromptu visit to the non-narcissistic divorced to give an awful warning to that parent/spouse who left that if they do not show kindness to that narcissist there could be gloom and doom some day.
Abuse the shit out of them.
Yep
I have see an increase in manipulative behavior as the narcissist ages. When they can no longer use their looks and charm to manipulate people they can become more controlling, argumentative, bossy and falsely caring.
They use the "I'm old and helpless" like a right they have earned just by living as long as they have.
@@unpluggeddogdreams That is my aged Narc Mom, exactly. ! They are ruthless and very dangerous creatures..
They will leave hand written wills around the house leaving everything to you IF... You will take care of them until they die. I laughed and said "you are just mean enough to outlive me, donate your crap to your church-I'm outta here".
@@unpluggeddogdreams LOLOL, OMG I love it. You did the right thing. It took me longer, but "Mission accomplished". I am almost a year no contact with Narc Mom, wish I had done it sooner. And I remember hearing my dear Narc Mom saying that she will outlive all her children.. she is 90 now so I suppose its a possibility? But I am finally free. Its a beautiful thing.
Yes I have observed this also.
According to Dr. Ramani Durvasula, narcissists never change who they are.
That's a fact!
I have had 3 Narc's in my lifetime. My older sister, my father and an X spouse. I can assure you they don't get better and more often get a lot worse with age. Best thing I have ever done is to go NO CONTACT about 20 years ago. If you have a middle aged Narc in your life, don't take any chances and get out while your still able.
So painfully true!
In my case, I have two narcs my aunt and my mother...Why do narcs need to be alive when they are already dead inside?
The middle-aged narcissist is horrible because they are fighting to hold on to the youth they have and pissed that it's harder to get supply.
NO CONTACT is the only cure.
@@lilfairycupcake No contact may be the start though not the cure. There are artifacts that remain and affect you the rest of your life.
He’s 75 and lost sexual ability, by which he gauged his power over women. It’s led to depression and his insecurity and fear come out as bursts of anger. He does seem lonely, but refuses to allow anyone completely “in” He IS NOT less dangerous. He still tries to control, manipulate, lies, cheats in his superficial relationships. He’s taken to using his aging to becoming a victim! Because he drinks and at an age where he remembers less, it causes him to mix up who he lies to and what he said. Yes! He did refine his technique. You’re right. Thank you for all the enlightening information you’ve provided.
At age 76, but still immature, he has his few faithful minions, but wants his money to control damaged kids, grandkids. Stil sees others as dishonest, manipulative, etc. He knows no regretEXCEPT for ONE RICH, HIGH PROFILE WOMAN that had no longterm need/use for him.
My experience is that they get worse. Especially when their partner (supply) dies and the rest of the family refuses to fill that role (supply).
Narcissists don't see others as human.
I've seen that too. When my stepdad died, something came out of my mother that I hope I never see again. It lasted for at least a year.
@@paulclinton6414 Yes, they are the spider and you are the fly.
AMEN. EVIL father dies, a family blessing. Today 20 years later my dearly evil sweet MOTHER is off the hook?
Correct.
I respect Dr Grande but my life experience with a few aging grandiose narcs proves otherwise. Narcs don't change. Be aware.
they get worse
Most of my research indicates the narcissist gets worse with age.
So true! They pretend to change once they are cornered, but, when opportunity arrives, they get into their old narc self. Like cameleons ... ironically, what is changing are lives of those around them: for the worse ...
Oh stfu and stop encouraging prejudice armchair expert. You know nothing.
I am not sure of my own problem or difference i suppose. I know i fit a category somewhere along the lines of a narcissist or a sociopath or some other denomination along that lines but i think narcissism fits best. That being said i have adhd and though I consistently come from the point of view that i am right and i am in the right and always the most important, i cant help that or my inability to figure out others emotions. I have overcome this in a vary basic way. I put myself in everyones shoes before i act or carry out judgement. I try to reason my own actions or thoughts through another’s perspective but often i make an alignment between myself and others that aren’t usually there. The general result i tend to view others in a more favorable light in almost every instance. Even when arguing with a person (in a debate like manor not confrontationally) and im unable to sway or manipulate their view i still view this person as like me and therefore my equal if that makes sense. I think of myself as a narcissist and i do my best to hold myself to a moral code and though im only simulating the social interaction and stopping my bad behavior im trying to change. My initial reaction is always from my point of me knowing best and i am better and i am trying to become better but it all is achieved by that need to view myself as better. So in short all my actions are not genuine and are calculated based on how i want to be seen which is manipulative the vary thing i try not to do. I guess you are both right and wrong we can act better but i do not know if i can be better. Hopefully that’s enough
I was raised by a narcissist mother. I didn't figure it out until middle age. All of romantic partners were narcissists. I finally figured out that my attraction wires were all messed up. Thank you Dr Grande for these videos on narcissism. They are so helpful
@Jacqueline Jacobson, the same happened to my sister.
I was raised by a narc, my brothers are both narcs and now my daughter. all of my marriages and relatinships were narcs. Please tell me abuot this attracton wiring???
Usually, when the narcissist gets older the physical, mental, and resources to influence their actions diminished greatly. But this lack of interaction is replaced by loneliness, winning, blame, and projected guilt or assigning shame to others because of what is happening to them. As they grow older the rage increases and, unfortunately, nobody wants to deal with them because they have left behind a pathway of destruction.
Thanks.. this is a good summary. Just in case someone gets mixed up, I think you meant to write whining rather than winning.
My 82 year old mother 🤦♂️
@@themoontoonshines923 I thought winning…..as in “always” being right…….envy whining…… rings true too
They absolutely become more entrenched, and they get worse. They’ll be like this until they draw their last breath.
Oh yes the will!
My dad has always been a grandiose narcissist and at age 77 he"s as narcissistic as ever,and he can still talk about anything as long as its about him
Smh
Continued damage? Yes. Narcissistic parents installed the buttons, so they know exactly how to push them.
Bingo ❤
My Narc mother got worse, to the point that I have had to go no contact. Difficult decision when a parent is in their 80's. Feeling a lot of guilt but the damage to myself and my husband was too much. I had no choice if I wanted to remain sane.
Have to add that the whole family is dysfunctional. Physically, emotionally abusive with me as scapegoat. Tried ignoring, distancing etc . Nothing stopped them but no contact. Wasn't a decision I made lightly.
You can't blame yourself because Lucifer decided to become a narcissist. We all have free will.
I’m going no contact soon with my whole family
. Please could you give me some advice about no contact with my family to make this easier for me. I’m feeling so destroyed just thinking about it!!
Exactly the same here. Otherwise I would have lost everything. I feel you! We only live once.
You me both. The guilt eats away for sure. Not a position I like being in; but it's better than the alternative ☹️
@@alexbaird2670 Oh yes... every time I think of the alternative I am reminded of pictures of myself with that desperate and so infinetly sad look in my eyes... No.
My mother was in her 80's and referred to me as "It" because I wouldn't listen to her gossip about people and I distanced myself from her
Yet, narcissists are it as they lack the core of humanity.
Yikes! Sounds like the dehumanization a serial killer or criminal would engage in.
You're doing well. My mother never called me by my name unless she wanted something from me. She usually called me Dirty Dog's Ass.
Kim56,You deserve better 🙏🙏🙏
When I call and say hello, she responds “yeah”
Didn't happen with my parents. My goodness, they got worse with age - it was astonishing. At age 50 - I went no contact because they completely unhinged from being able to shroud their abuse with a warped connection to reality - they just threw reality aside and all bets were off.
Yes, they just throw reality aside like you say and dish up lies with uncanny ease. It a creepy return to childhood.
I am no contact now with elderly Narc Mom. She is pure poison. I never thought I would be one of those ppl going no contact with a parent. But as she grew more wicked and viscious I joined the no contact club. I had to. It became a matter of life and death for me.
Yes!
@@Bonnie55317-w Me, too. It's so sad, and I'm sorry you had to do what I had to do. But we must save ourselves.
@@Bonnie55317-w you should love ur parents and understand them no matter what they took care of you when ur a baby
I have an 80 yr old Narc and my sister and I live here to care for her... she is the ONLY one in the house that is NOT sick all the time. We are always sick and exhausted!
She is the spider and you are the flies. Put her in a home if you can, the stress will kill you.
I mad the mistake of moving in with mine since she is 80 but really regret it ..looking for my own place agsin soon .God bless u
Why? Leave while you still can.
Get now, they are pure evil 🙈
Just let her rot a way, just say: die quickly bitch.
I follow forums pretty closely for children of narcissists and my observation is that when narcissists age they get so much worse to the point where many aging narcissists ostracize one of their children, or the victim goes "no contact". Scapegoats seem overwhelmingly to be left out of Wills, so they feel they have nothing to lose - they feel that if they stay, they will be more abused than ever, and then afterward be left out of the Will. There have been many discussions of the latter.
Maybe an aging narcissistic parent will try to victimize by proxy, but so many of the narcissists' scapegoats abandon or are abandoned by narcissistic parents. There is no glue, no incentive, in a scapegoat role.
Yes, yes, yes.!
Marie B, I see a whole lot of this going on! From my experience talking with many, many survivors, a lot of narcs steal (what they did to you is illegal)
they scapegoat
the lack of empathy is very apparent
they are into smear campaigns
they will put money above familial bonds
Describing you as "evil" is concerning (because they use projection, in other words, it probably means they are evil - it's worth it to hear what they say if only for the projection vantage point).
I'm the adult child in that boat right now. Not sure I'll stay in the Will or not but no contact is more important.
@@fibretowne I'm so sorry. But you aren't alone. My guess would be that something around 85 - 90 percent of scapegoat children of narcissistic parents get left off of Wills and Trusts, whether they are caretaking or not. Let's not forget that it is the narcissist who decides these roles. The way that survivors respond to abuse is: fawn, fight, flight or freeze (avoid). The narcissist will never let a scapegoat fawn - if the scapegoat tries to fawn the narcissist will say things to his victim like "I don't believe you", "Good try, but I don't buy your attitude," "It's not like you to care about me" and other such phrases. So that leaves only the other three responses left. Scapegoats receive a lot of injustice, and how does injustice play out? By trying to get the scapegoat to react (in anger or tears). The anger induces the narcissist to hope you will fight with them (so that they can win in a dirty way, going after your character, your looks, your tone of voice, or the fact that you are angry - all erroneous blaming), or if they have you in tears they will call you a cry-baby, weak, "a poor victim", etc.
It's demeaning beyond anything most people can imagine. And all planned by the narcissist!
Yes this scapegoat got away.My mother has got mire manipulative,and is unashamedly demanding ,mean and entitled.Sadly to avoid my mother being privy to info about me I have to limit my coversations with my siblings.
Worse! The manipulation and devaluation really do become extreme! I saw that in 2 Overt and 1 Covert Narc. They are, as you suggested Dr. Grande, more practiced, so they can "do more with less", and it's easy to underestimate them until they attack. Horrible creatures!
That is very true. They lure and manipulate while using their age and health status as a weapon of choice. If they still own a house or have a bank account...? then they will also use that to lure, manipulate and control.
Bonnie55317 Oh yes! The Covert, who had both a house and money, tried to convince me to marry him ... he obviously wanted a nurse, a caregiver, a housekeeper, cook, etc. ... He said, "You would have my annuity!" I just said, "I don't need your annuity, thanks." which surprised him. I guess he thought anyone would be for sale.
public service announcement: they wont change (for the better)
Thanks for the laugh. [as I question what's possible with my parents in the years ahead, they are 88 & 89 and I haven't seen them in 12 & 8 years respectively, and we function via limited contact through a dedicated email address that I can ignore for a month if I"m not up for it].
My dad is 64 & it hasn't decreased at all. He is still awful & incredibly manipulative, abusive & equally as horrible as he has always been.
Yes, my ex is 66 and is worse than before… cruel, manipulative, vindictive, controlling, evil.
Thank you for doing videos on and including vulnerable narcissists. My mother is an aging narcissist, and while the manifestation of her narcissism has always been primarily vulnerable, she is now retreating fully into the vulnerable type. There is SOOOO much information available on the grandiose type and comparatively little on the primarily vulnerable type- not to mention how it manifests during different life stages. For a long time I was confused, because she was obviously abusive but didn’t fit the extroverted, grandiose type. It wasn’t until I stumbled on you speaking of the differences that the vulnerable narc manifests before her pathology clicked into place for me. And there is very little information out there about aging narcissism and how it changes and affects the senior narc. Thank you for your insights, and thank you for covering this type of narc that doesn’t get much “press”.
Practice makes perfect and they are increasingly dangerous as they age!!!!! Lock these sick freaks up this is one of the worst kind of human being WORST!!
Only thing worse than an aging Narc, is a pedafile or a serial killer. Maybe.
I agree with you one hundred per cent. They are evil demons who walk amongst us on this earth... Guard your heart, Guard your self. Guard your soul.
@@Bonnie55317-w Modern feminist society just gets what it derveres. And it will get worse and worse the way society functions now...
FBI list con men narcissistic
@@Bonnie55317-w well said! Amen!
This is definitely a very interesting topic ! Thank you Dr. Grande. I was married to two of these Narc's. The first was a covert and the second was a grandiose type. Both types are always reaching out for new supply. They can be exceptionally nice to
others while treating you like garbage on a personal level. Now I can understand why it becomes more difficult for them to find and influence new supply as they age. Lets face it, other older people get wise to their crap and don't care to deal with them. That leaves them with their spouse and children to try and manipulate. Most of their children don't want to deal with them either. That leaves their spouse. As Dr. Grande mentions they get more lonely as they age. that leaves them with only one source of supply. The spouse. Obviously they will double down on their only supply they have left. And if that supply passes on before they do,,,,, Well, eventually they end up in a nursing home. None of the surviving family visits them and the nursing home staff hates having to deal with them too !!
I have seen how my mother has mistreated and was demanding of hospital staff members when she was only in there for 11 days due to pneumonia. She sat there like a queen demanding what she wanted, when she wanted. Her bed bed was constantly ringing from her demands. Then she would complain that the staff didnt attend to her "Fast enuf". I cant imagine when she eventually goes to a nursing home. I feel sorry for the ppl who take care of such viscous selfish elderly Narcs. It's nightmarish.
Thanks Wistundra for the ahead of time heads up. I better be prepared for their doubling down with hopes of getting me back under the same roof if and when my children don't want to deal with them anymore at all. I need to have a plan as to what acts of kindness I can in safety offer in return to their efforts to get me back and a safety plan if they surprise me with an attack when they detect that I am never going back to them.
I hope they don't want to deal with them! God bless the nursing peeps!!
I agree the worst ppl are ever cared for were in care homes I understand why families don’t visit . I left couldn’t stand being in the same room with some of them!
Thank You So Very
Much For Sharing Narcissists Get Worse With
Age.They Continue There Same Patterns
Manipulating Punishing Abusing
It Just Gets Worse.
My covert sister is now 50 and she's gotten way worse. She goes off the rails a lot more frequently
Keep distance from all narcs, even family. No one should tolerate abuse.
Thank you Dr Grande.
Your video confirms what I have read about people with those narcisstic traits...they do not change. Because they have burned so many Bridges, or have narcisstic children of their own, their circle of influence is very small....at best they become more clever devils in their delivery.
I have witnessed this in an ex mother inlaw. Still manipulative and playing the victim...
Exactly right
Interesting how so many people have this idea that when one ages they become more mellow, easier to deal with, and less aggressive self centered or manipulative, if they had some of these narcissistic personality traits when younger. Almost as if all elderly people are frail and nice and just want some company. I work with the elderly and so this video was very interesting on a personal level. I have worked with women who are absolutely verbally abusive and manipulative, and they do get worse as they get older. I noticed that the children of these elderly women rarely visit and when they do, they make sure to limit their visits to twice a week for about 15 minutes. Sad but it's probably their way of protecting themselves from verbal abuse. But then, maybe these children are also narcissistic, as they also seem to have no empathy for their parent whatsoever. Elderly women (generally speaking), seem to be able to hold grudges, be vindictive and act more self centered than men. They have more resentment towards their children, expecting their children to devote themselves to them. The elderly men seem to be more laid back and just lonely, whereas many of the elderly women become more bitter. This would be an interesting case study in itself.
My Narc Mom was abusive to the staff in the hospital when she had pneumonia. I could see the hurt on the staffs face. I know all too well what that feels like. I was embarassed to even be associated with her.
I’ve always found older women generally worse than older men. Not that males are perfect, but old ladies are easily one of the nastiest demographics you can get. With age they seem to lose all subtlety as well. Of course there are very sweet old women around too.
Some elderly people are so saintly in how they are not apt to complain that is true. But like Dr. Grande says in contrast when it comes to a narcissist as they age instead they get better at manipulation which includes the art of seduction with charm -- That is until they get you into their spider's web of lies entrapped enough for them to feel safe in showing you their ugliest side often.
I’m living with my 92 year old stepmom, who was a child during WW2, Germany. I understand the root of her narcissism, and know her mom was also a narcissist. Her jabs at me are now more like a dog with no teeth! She doesn’t have leverage now, she needs me. I’m the only one standing between living at home, or going to elder care. I’ve been here for just over a year, and have found my voice with her, I was so intimidated as a child. I speak my mind, am kind, but do not hold back. It is super hard, caregiving, but I have made some personal progress, and it’s not forever....
May i ask, did she had a father in her childhood.
Yes, my ex got sooo much worse and deadly dangerous.
My dad was a vulnerable narcissist, I was his codependent all the way to the grave. I waited for that moment when he’d say he was sorry it never came. I was only free of him after seeing him completely helpless in his final days.
How did you feel after he passed? I would imagine very conflicted.... I will be passing that bridge soon with my Malignant Narc Mom. She is 90 now and still as destructive and toxic as ever... and worse.
Bonnie55317 I actually was there with hospice the last days, it gave me peace to see him with out his mask, completely broken and helpless, but not in a manipulative way. I was able to let him and a lot of resentment go.
He was helpless in his final days after decades of demeaning others.
Nope,they don't change,they get worse because the realization that they're aging makes them more bitter.
Your clinical experience is right Dr. My mother went fron raging narc to covert manipulative narc. Oh she milked that poor little old.lady me. You are so knowledgabe. Thank you.
a lot of narcissists want someone younger when they get older because they only care about looks!
Narcissist on their death bed posing for Instascam pictures.
Absolutely.
The young naivete makes things easy too...
Reminds me of a joke I read recently.
"I'm 75 years old and the only way I could get together with a younger woman was to lie about my age."
"How old did you tell her you were?"
"85."
That is a fact!!
My narcissist father managed to enforce the guilt induction over my mother in his last days. He died from cancer without considering that he could actually die, so there was no final words or final enlightnment for him. He was in his deathbed as narrowminded as he was in life, consistently transfering his emotional burdens to her.
The narc that I was involved with got worse much worse with age. All he thought about was p**** and he was 84 years old in other words he was a dirty old man. And probably was a dirty young man too
I couldn’t disagree more❗️
My father got much worse before he died in his early 80s and my husband gets worse every year he’s alive and he’s in his mid-50s.
You must not respect yourself to stay married to a narcissist.
Paul Clinton you sound like a narcissist
@@paulclinton6414 You literally have no idea how abusive relationships work.
Watch the video to the end. He said and I'm just summing it up "if someone that was 15 years younger than another person and they were to go to the ring, the younger guy would heal faster but the person 15 years older has mastered more moves". The narcissist is going to keep evolving into a bigger narcissist. They get more manipulative and more subtle
I don't think it's narcissistic to not want to help a parent with high narcissism or NPD. For example, my Father neglected my needs in childhood, cut me off totally at age 13 and is negative and abusive to me whenever we (rarely) meet.
In fact the abuse gets worse and worse with time in my case. He's almost 80 now, I'm almost 50. He has never apologised for anything he has ever done, and gets joy if I'm in pain or struggling- I'm totally done at this stage!
So glad you did a video on the aging narc! Glad I won’t be there to age with him!
I loved the younger/older boxer analogy. Thanks as always Dr Grande 😊
null
Don't inflate his ass.
Yes ❤😂
Many NPD fall apart in old age, turn to alcohol or drugs to deal with the reality of their own mortality and faced with their own failures. Depression and social isolation becomes more and more common as they become bitter. May also end up homeless or in a mental hospital
Thank you Dr Grande. Very interesting and I learned a lot. Frightening actually.
My dad was a very dangerous narcissist. He got depressed as he aged. It appeared he had no one left to manipulate so he put a gun to his face and killed himself. I think he was in his 80’s. I had been discarded by both parents many years ago so I heard this thru my sister. Frankly I was relieved because he was very evil. His reign of manipulation and deceit came to an end.
I wish all narcissists would take themselves out of this world that way. Good riddance.
From my personal experience, it's exactly how you describe it. My narcissist still tries to undermine me from time to time, it's really annoying. I'm no longer the main target. I've been the scapeagoat for decades, not a pleasant experience, which left me quite scarred. It took me a long time to recover and forgive. And lots of no contact, of course. She's obviously not interested im me and it's mutual, so I limit our contact to small talk at a minimum.
I really appreciate your channel and your work. Thank you!
You described the aging parent in my life to a tee. Limiting exposure to her was vital to my mental health, although I felt called to come along side her to assist when she declined. Taking the parental reins at first was very hard as she was extremely strong willed and it was her way or the high way, most often. But little by little as I showed love, honesty, and dependability, she was able to let go of her control and let me lead. But I really need the Lord to give wisdom each and every day. Thanks for the validation, Dr. Grande. I think you know this type so very well! 😉
Randers Rose,You are absolutely gorgeous 🌹🌹🌺,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
This is happening to my narc father right now. He was diagnosed with dimentia last year and it has been absolutely bizarre watching the loud and aggressive control freak in my life morph into a weak and fragile man. As angry as I am at him, I can't help but feel sorry for him.
@A Jones, do not feel sorry for him; feel sorry for yourself. Save yourself by going no contact.
As someone who looked after a covert narc mother until the day she died of dementia, I would recommend you try, if you are able, to do the same with your father. Watching a person devolve into a child like state (which is what dementia does) is the best therapy you will ever receive in that it will reconcile the two of you back together as the dominant becomes the dependent and everything comes full circle. That is worth $1 million worth of couch therapy. You have a duty to your father as I did to my mother. When it is all over you will become like a saint walking on earth and largely resistant to any other Narc you ever meet, as soon as you recognize them for what they are.
EXCELLENT presentation! I like that you are talking about DIFFERENT topics on Narcissism (vs re-gurgitating the same stuff all the other experts are discussing (such as "dating, /"romantic relationships w/Narcs). But that's not the only encounters we have with these life-sucking people!
My Narcissist situation is a wicked neighbor that does all these malicious antics with an agenda to try and get me to move(!)
I feel I've been a victim of my husband's narcissism for 34 years. I'm not the gullible girl I once was. I think you're absolutely right about how I feel towards my husband. However, I now see his ways as a disability and do not expect him to change, and although it's supremely unpleasant, I'm not as affected as I used to be.
Oh, you ARE affected. Don't wait 'till you're even older to run. The abuse gets much worse after 70.
@@ausept45 Yes, it's impossible not to be affected at all!
34 yrs Wow , I made 20 , but just barely , I left to visit family and he basically let me know he is done with me so now I guess I’ll be staying where I am.
Ohh, and I’m 70.
@@roslyntucker590 So sorry, Roslyn. Hope things get better for you. ♥️🌹
My experience is they get worse. At least the abuse from my ex spouse increased precipitously around age 42-50 and is still getting worse.
This happened with my husband as well. He just turned 50 and the past 6-8 years have been hellish. I would love to know why this happens.
I’m in the same boat. What do you do? How do yo handle it?
@@maria2400 ....I had to divorce him. I gave up a lot to do that too...financial stability and an intact home for 5 children. But he just got worse and worse.
@@laughingwaters8309 wondering how it's going?
@@letsgethealthy123go2 the More So Theory applies...narcissist gets More So as they age, up until dirt is shoveled on the casket. ask me how I know 😬
My experience is that they get worse whith aging, especially with smearcampanges...
So that proves that aginng narcissists should be left isolated to die alone away from innocent and good people.
@No Calvinism Wow that was quite a story!!
Yes it was very conflicting. As the only female and older child, I was the chosen. But; God and its angels were looking after me when they sent people like you intoy life. Thank you Dr.
I’ve found that their mind games become more subtle and vicious. The rage at their core seems undiminished.
Thank you for your insight, Dr. Grande 🙏
I agree !
Absolutely. If ever the kind, loving person I knew as my mother really existed, this version of her has definitely vanished. I try to keep that part in my memory but I cannot bear what she is now.
Vicious says it. My husband abused the kind and caring nurses and resident doctors during his hospitalizations, but manipulated his own doctors shamefully. He abused his visitors and me too.
You are 100% correct
This was a good summary, Dr Grande, thank you ... It's my father's birthday on Sunday; I was the second of his three children to be alienated ... The pain of not having the relationship you always wanted with a parent never goes away, but it does become less amplified; the pain of it, during our relative youth, turns to 'mere' sadness (and pity, for both/all of us) with understanding ... but that's the best one can hope for, ime ... :/
That sounds like a healthy result.
Taught behavioral seem three generations
I really appreciate your videos. The different personality disorders are very well explained. And unlike other channels, they are supported by research. I have seen how many videos that simply demonize the narcissistic personality disorder. I prefer to understand it. Of course, I had to move away to protect myself. But to understand this personality disorder makes it possible to realize that people with it are suffering too. And it makes you aware rather than hate. To hate someone we have loved is also very painful.
Well said
I agree we must understand and have compassion even though we limit our contacts and are proactive in damage control ie. Not taking things personal.
Its easy to understand, very easy, at least with the male narcissists. They get their self esteem, their roots, their feeling of beeing rooted, their inner strengh, their backbone, their masculinity from their father. Froma loving father who gives him recognition. But with feminist divorce rights you just have tons of male narcissists and it will get worse in future the way western society is heading.
Mother can be AS loving as they want, they still create the worst kinds of narcissistic sons. You see it everywhere, bmy best friend is that type, and hes even self aware about the abismal hole, his lacking father left in him. It disrupts and damages even the realation to the mother badly.
Extraordinary analysis ! You have depicted my aging mother(octogenarian)sucking everything out of my younger brother's life . My elder brother is a malignant narcissist,only abuses her(though he is still her golden child).
My brothers have not changed their tactics toward me in all their years. They have gotten worse because they no longer care if they impress others. My mother was mean spirited to the very end of her life. I have worked to stay away from my family for years and finally am able to stay away completely. People who have been acting badly all their lives are in a habit of it, they cannot just let go of what they have done all their lives. They also married narcissistic people who use the same meanness to affect others. I have decided to never go to the funerals of these people. Their spouses have acted all their lives that they don't like me, it makes no sense to go to be a support to someone who does not value my support. They have others they have gathered around them who they do like, let them be their comfort.
It's like a brain tumor and every day you must picture it shrinking ever smaller: you're experiencing a miraculous cure 🤝
WHat kind of father did you brothers have? .. Regards.
@@MasterBlaster220 our father was very selfish, when I would talk to him it was as if there was no one inside. Our mother dominated him terribly but it was because he made very foolish decisions.
@@gwendolynwehage6336 Males with narcississm have nearly always a father complex, something that science doenst want to explain, because feminist politics forbids it. Feminist divorce rights are the reason why there are 80% of narcississts that are male.
@@MasterBlaster220 We are living in a time of "raging insanity" in which normal and natural things are turned upside down and backward. God said it would be this way toward the end of the age. In 2 Timothy 3, we see the prophecy that is being fulfilled right now.
2 Timothy 3:1-5
Difficult (actually means in the original language "ragingly insane" Times Will Come
"3 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, slanderers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, [a]haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power; avoid such people as these."
Women now have a disdain for their femininity and expect men to act and react just like them. I have been a homemaker all my life, doing many diverse things, totally fulfilled in my chosen lifestyle, but the narcissistic women and some men mocked and demeaned me for my choice. I am educated and capable but they chose to believe I was stupid and unworthy of respect because I saw the value of being the CEO of our household. I was alone a lot but never bored because I enjoyed my JOB, yes I said that. If we do our job correctly we will never feel as though it is a worthless career choice.
My dad got worse too. I called him the old king cos he thought he was. He died at 94 and still had me sat in my room sulking at 70.
I’m dealing with an alcoholic 71 y/o malignant narcissist who is my mother. I am an ACES survivor of trauma and neglect she caused to me when she was 15 when she had me. I ran away at 16 and later joined the military to unlearn the NPD behaviors she refuses to deal with her own childhood traumas. After my Military I got my M.Ed, in Literacy to help and understand behaviors in learning (neuro/psychology and behaviors). I am an empath and I am also the family black sheep because I ran away at an early age. My only sibling sister is exactly like my Mom. Just like Dr. G’s video on this issue. Thank you Dr. G and Ramani for being experts and helping us navigate our lives! My mom hates I had an advanced degree and in the NARC form, she smeared me, attacked me for siding with the rehab ppl and in a rage, she took me off her POA two wks ago because I had an NCC (counseling certification) and understand the DSM, as I talked about concerns with her mental needs as she’s in rehab again for the 3 time this year. Cannot stop her drinking, driving and now she’s suicidal because We’re burnt out. I disagree when an aging narcissist has duel or multiple DSM issues such as substance and PTSD, it gets worse. I am a war veteran/soldier with PTSD and I will not stress my Lupus or mental health anymore. I must walk away, sadly. She will end up in an assisted living facility as she is verbally abusive and seriously antagonistically abusive/manipulative…to their end she will not validate her own pain nor the pain she’s still caused to my sister, me and , now my kids/ her grandkids. SADLY A TRULY NARCISSISTIC FIEND TO THE END! PRAYING FOR MY MOTHER AND HER SOUL!🙏🏽😔😢🧠💪🏾
I've lost my whole family and when I had a family of my own, my mother and sister went after my children. They will do anything to punish you for living a life free from their manipulation.
They would have still gone after your children if you stayed in their orbit and swallowed the abuse.
My therapist was quick to remind me my narc ex-boss would get worse with time because society ignores middle-aged women, so she will be incurring near-constant narc injuries and will need *more* supply, not less.
Your narc ex boss is a loser. I never met her, but all narcs are losers.
Sounds very familiar. Good advice. This can strike women who were exceptionally good-looking with a shock. It's hard to keep trading on a smile that people are no longer clamoring to see.
My sister to a T! She told me a while ago she started doing facial exercises everyday on the way to work 🤣 Her husband has to tell her she looks young all the time!
@XM woah what? This one is 40 about to be 41 in December. To me she looked the same as when we met. But that could just be me idk she's a big girl like 5 foot 7 240 pounds.
I didn't mind I looked past tit bc she was soo cool and bad ass.
After this discard, she began roller blading like she did when she was a teen and 19 etc. I guess to try and lose weight etc. I have no clue what she looks like now I blocked her on fb bc I'm not playing that fake look how happy I am now game.
It's as of 13 yrs never happened. It's so BIZZAR
The boxing analogy is excellent, not least because being on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse can feel like being in a ring and ending up on the ropes a lot of the time. I think they get more adept at manipulation, better at concealment, they are real wolves in sheep’s clothing at these later stages in their lives. They can sometimes use their new vulnerability as an extra tool to exploit those around them. A particular one I know is perfecting the kind old lady persona, but she is still the manipulative, attention seeking narcissist underneath. They can also use financial leverage, inheritance, to keep family members hooked. Thank you Dr Grande
Dr. Grande, you are SPOT on! I appreciate your evaluation on what is my immediate situation. You have given me great courage to examine my relationship with open eyes and act accordingly! My gratitude and thankfulness to you sir!🤗
Interesting. I know a couple of older women who are with their narc husband because by that age, they have invested SO many years & if they left, they'd have to live off of $750 social security vs. the benefits they would get if they stick it out till he dies. You gotta eat.
Suzy Q I agree... that’s me :/
Very true.
Yes. My situation. I left, applied for early retirement, thinking that my auto immune problems would make it difficult for me to work. Well, can't survive on just 640 a month, so had to supplement by getting a job, and a job that won't send my income over SSR income limits.
Meanwhile, my husband, (we are separated), makes a good sum of money. What it takes me, in a month to earn, he can make in one paycheck. Still, I am much happier, even if it is a struggle to get by, without him in my life.
I have been common law married to a Narc but left him about 19 years ago. Have no contact in all these years since I left. Cannot afford to file for divorce. I have one child with him who he hasn't seen since he was 2 and half years old. Best decision was to leave and go no contact. Was a living nightmare.
@@marlacarlson2586 Where do you live? In the United States, there is hardly anywhere that common law marriage is recognized. You do not need a divorce.
Thank you! I can recognize several of the things you describe, even though my mother was rather vulnerable than grandiose. Her last few years were really tough on me and my family (I was her only child). She died two years ago. I am now, slowly, recovering from all the anxiety, the guilt, and all sorts of other emotions.
They tend to get meaner, and are more aggressive, depending on their past successes, however the good news is that anyone above the age of 55 is not likely to be cognizant of being videotaped.
Don't be too sure of anything when it comes to what the computer literacy of any person over the age of 55 might be no matter what their family background is.
I tried to record my Dad’s tirade discreetly and he immediately settled down. He knew exactly what I was trying to do.
Get so tired of being old as an excuse to be abusive
I've learned so much... Thank you!!!! For all the stress caused by a narcissist and with all this learning from months I'm a lot better. The funny thing is that all narcissists are the same. They all are programed with Windows Narcis... so predictable now haaha
Wrong! And nearly every comment here conveys my opinion: THEY GET WORSE!
I've spent the last several years reuniting/helping two different elderly female family members. I was so confused and angry I put myself in psychological evaluation boot camp on YT. Females in particular get much worse for these reasons:
-automatic attention from their looks are gone-they replace that in desperately sad ways! (these two have converted their old-school hustling skills to CIA-like psychological operations!)
-their work titles now gone--they create situations where they can boss someone around/shame them. The added effort it now takes to get their daily narc fix creates anger and frustraction.
-Their usually smooth manipulation tactics aren't quite the same as ahlzimers and memory loss begin.
So when they find a new "low self-esteem" victim they have to maximize this opportunity because most everyone they knew are now gone.
Very true in my experience regarding female aging Narcs.Sex apppeal is less effective, so victim stories escalate smear campaigns and triangulation of children still in contact escalates.
Aging narc men are the same.
Great video Dr. Grande!
You made some excellent statements.
A book I read, "The Force of Character" speaks similarly. Not about narcissism per se but showing that the ageing process actually reveals who we really are.
My elderly parents are both narcissists and I didnt think it could be worse than when I was a kid but boy was wrong! All the negative traits are amplified by 1000 and even small amounts of time around them is nearly unbearable.
Corresponding videos on aging borderlines, histrionics and psychopaths would be interesting too, especially with points of comparison across the types. Thanks as always for sharing your insight.
Please do more videos on geriatric populations! This was fascinating
These characters do NOT "mellow with age".
They stay exactly the same or get worse. I was my father's punching bag even in front of the nurses. The nurse pulled me aside and told me not to blame myself. It was him, not me. My father still triangulated and pitted my sister against me. He didn't have the strength anymore so he would get her to attack me.
Yes I realized last year why my two younger sisters treated me like crap. They were well trained by our father and they would do anything to avoid being his scapegoat. They were more than happy to let me continue in this role until I walked away and now they see what he’s really like.
LOVE your videos!! I've been the "victim" of 3 different narcissists back-to-back. I put victim in quotes because I've learned I'm not a victim and it's a choice to allow narcissists to do anything to you.
Not taking any chances.
Staying No Contact!
I'm happy. single and loving it!
Carol.....nothing like peace, being whole. Happy, content!!!
Me too. I can have a conversation with myself any time I want to now in whatever dramatic expression fashion that I feel like expressing at the time while knowing that I am not going to be constant interrupted by someone who is going to be offering me nothing of value while making demands on me for no pay or just to give me awful warnings about what is going to happen if I don't buy. Someone like that of course will have to be open then to be maybe later while it continues finding the police at their door next.
Vibrator gang!
Clever human, keep it up. Me too, no contact, they can all be dying in front on me, beg, cry and go to hell, but not with me. No mercy!
I'll show them who is the Narc :). Love as usual.
Also how many family members died early from living with them.?? Cancer, autoimmune diseases, food allergies, lack of care. The stories you hear in support groups will break your heart.
My co dependent Dad got cancer of the Throat (esopophageal) interestinglyif you know theories about why illness presents in certain body parts,
and died at 43 they were married 16years . I noted some deterioration in their relating at around 13/14yrs like Dad hit her on the arm one day when her rant went on too long !! HE was not a violent person
At the time I thought she deserved it.Guess who was the "voice"in our family.Guess who did all the hard grind ..yep the dead one.She got to play the ultimate victim though as we had 7 fatherless young children in our family to "help" aged 16 to 2y.
Dr. Grande, narcissists do not "pass away" , they are divine. 😊 You should know by now.
Just as so many other subscribers I like the boxer story a lot. All the n. persons in my life where at least in their early 30ties. I personally don't find it appropriate to attribute narcissim to a person that is in their teens and twenties, I can't see what is wrong with them. Young people want to grow and they are ambitious.
What you tell us about their aging is absolutely true. Older N. are more refined, they have a greater interpersonal toolbox, some manipulate in a very sophisticated way, esp. when they are highly intelligent. Once they throw their "bombs", they hit their target with elegance and almost effortless. I admit that I'm impressed by that. If it was not highly destructive to others, I would state, that this is a kind of art.
If your ego does not stand in your way that much as it does in your younger years, you are likely to be far more effective with your strategies, as a young person is.
The worst person of my life finally discarded me as a friend imo for the reasons you mentioned here. He couldn't be on the top, since a 60 year old person is clearly not stronger than a person in her forties is. He indeed tried to give me a guilt trip and saw himself as a victim of mine. It is many years ago , but when I hear a person speak like he did, and if it is just one single word, I am still extremely triggered and instantly fully alert. That's his legacy. So thank you so much for this video.
Nice but I think you misunderstand what intelligence is. Narcissists are the opposite
This video left me feeling respectful. Thank you :)
The aging narcissist gets worse. My partner is 78 is worse than ever, he act more entitled, manipulative , lies. The lies are unexplainable and do not make sense. He still knows everything better, they never admit that they are wrong, they never apologize. They will have a lonely end. His even more malignant narcissistic daughter took total control of him. He is not smart enough anymore to see it.
My husband is 53 and he is worse than ever. The raging is almost every day now. I'm starting to fear him.
Beatrice Bee You need to get an exit plan in place and leave!
Mine is 62. I have noticed his raging and impatience is getting much worse. Not better. Also, he is impatient driver that gets road rage often. He has also been fighting a lot with the guys at his workplace. He is retiring this year. Not sure what the next chapter will be?
Hope your left your narcissist husband or have a plan to leave the demon.
@@Bonnie55317-wno next chapter to it, only same chapter worsening. Have an exit strategy. You will be thankful when that day comes
what you start talking about @ 10 mins in is so important, and so very true! All that I experienced 1st hand...and it was very sad, and tough to go through the confusing feelings.
From my experience, they tend to become more blatant and less subtle in their manipulating and verbal assaults especially when they become in charge and the wise elders or watchdogs have died off. Therefore, anyone who is around them for long periods of time may start to see the selfishness and deviousness. Not all senior citizens are wise and kind. Their tool box may be a bit rusty but tried and true so they love to keep using it to stab and maim. It is very painful, devastating, and confusing when you are the target.
Fascinating video again. Thank you Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
@@fredericmoresmau4303 - Huh?
@@fredericmoresmau4303 - But what did you smoke? Was some good stuff or what?
Another excellent video. In my experience they become less narcissistic but are still able to retain some control and attention as normal empathic people tend to pity them.
I agree that they don’t get worse as they grow older. One of the difficulties that I’ve experienced when trying to highlight mean, narcissistic behaviours in the elderly is that people tend to dismiss the behaviours as being part of growing older, and try to get others to overlook the abuse being dished out. In other words old age becomes another mask behind which the now very skilled and experienced narcissist can hide.
I have an elderly, narcissistic, female neighbour who lives across the road from me. I’ve known her for over 20 years, she’s in her seventies now, and her personality traits have not changed. She uses the aches and pains and reduced mobility to draw people in, playing on their empathy to get their support, and then she dumps her meanness on those trying to help her. She often gossips about other neighbours behind their backs, slagging them off and complaining that nobody helps her or supports her. This is not true as she receives a good deal of help and support from all of her neighbours. The only people who don’t offer any help or support are her children - a son and daughter who live nearby. In the past twenty off years I’ve only seen her daughter visit her mother about a half a dozen times. Her son, who lives 10 miles away, visits once a year.
I’ve offered much help and support to her, mainly because she’s a widow (like myself) and I can see that she’s isolating herself by rejecting everything that is offered to her. I’ve had to stop offering anything because we’ve got ourselves stuck in a pattern of me offering something, she rejects the offer then she slags me off to other neighbours telling lies that she never sees or hears from me. There have been a number of disagreements between neighbours who have fallen for her games and they’ve all apologised one by one once they hear what I’ve been trying to do to help her. I now set clear boundaries with her and encourage her to lean on her children for help. I do the same with my neighbours.
They don’t get worse as they get older, but nor do they improve (in my opinion). But I believe very strongly, that they use the vulnerability of old age as a mask to cover and excuse their narcissistic behaviours.
This was very upsetting to listen to as it was so descriptive of my situation. I guess I now realise that I never will hear those word of apology . Tough to hear but thank you for being so pragmatic.
you don't need an apology, but just know narcissists are aware they are miserable and empty.
It takes self-reflection, humility and regret to say 'I'm sorry'. If a narcissist apologizes don't believe them.
You will never hear a (genuine) apology because they WANT you to hurt.
No rest for the wicked, My narc always sleeps head faced at me, I build a pillow wall screew it I want sleep😂 they are demonds with out question. Knew somthing didnt add up found out about "narcissism " a couple months after she was pregnant😱😱 talk about a horror story, These videos help me alot thank you 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Try not to drink people it makes it alot worse they will use it against you to make them seem more "normal" alighn your escape low key get your ducks in order and bounce, they are tree's that dont produce and I see mine as forbidden fruit. Hope that helps somebody.
Thank you for the very helpful analysis. In my personal experience, I think her aging related depression led my covert narcissistic mother to intensify the guilt tripping. She got obsessed by the idea that, as she stated it, "now it's my turn", so, even more than before, everything should be for her and about her. Her effort backlashed, as it became so unbearable that I had to distance myself once and for all to protect myself. Actually at that point was when I started to learn about narcissism (I am 40 years old!), because also the discussions were leading to nowhere. As I am aging too, I do not have the energy anymore. Still I can definitely agree that one feels sorry. It is very hard to maintain but I had to decide for one of the lives to care about.
Glad this guy is an actual psychologist, he knows what he’s talking about
Narcs might tone it down and do more covert acts as they age. Usually they become sweeter to the golden child and other underlings beneath the golden child. This is usually because of a financial gain and they gravitate towards the high earner. If filial piety is a cultural norm, guilt inducing woeful type of behaviour ensues. Beneath it, they’re exactly the same. They just become more cunning with dwindling age and financial status.
My oldest son is a narcissist. I wish I knew when he was a child. He made me feel crazy. Thank you Dr.Grande. Very informative.
I know one Narcissist with a lot of money and resources - got much worse as they aged and their cognition declined. Because they have money, they always have people to enable them. Another Narcissist I know is aging with very tight finances and not many acquaintances, and very few choices...so this person really struggles to act normal and to not drive people away.
Sara Robertson,You are absolutely gorgeous 🌷🌹🌺,hope you are not with a narc 😈!!
I've seen this play out where the victim predeceased the covert narcissist; in his period of infirmity preceding his death he hoped for some expression and acts of compassion, caring, and concern from the narcissist, and hopefully some reciprocity and closure. Instead, the narcissist had already devalued and dehumanized him, and was already moving on to identify future sources of supply. He died an embittered man.