proton will definitely be getting this but my biggest hope is that this motivates gamescope to implement native wayland support (currently it only supports xwayland clients)
I really appreciate the goal to decomplex and speeding up the graphics pipeline. Circumventing Xorg more precisely xwayland as an unnecessary translation layer would create more space for optimization. This is needed urgently to get competitive fps. Alexandris Frantzis is working on that project for quite some time now and full support to him. But... what about key wine developers? As long as they don't implement upstream at least an experimental option for that, we might still be stuck for years.
This is literal nonsense. Wine relies on direct rendering which is impossible on Wayland. Wine on Wayland involves MORE workarounds, not fewer. As for "competitive FPS", lots of Windows games run faster on Wine on X11 than they do on Windows, on the same hardware...
considering that wine could not really be described as "stable / mature software" anyway, I think it's fine to move as fast and dangerous as they want. When we get to the point where we have something like 100% windows compatibility, then we can talk about breaking changes, etc.
I am in general agreement, though opening up compositor or window manager-specific fixes is just a catastrophe waiting to happen. It would cause an unprecedented amount of inaccurate bug reports and context-specific pull requests.
I use Wine with Lutris. To me gaming IS already easy thanks to Lutris launchers. It can even run dgvoodoo2 for old DOS games. I can't say I'm exactly waiting on Wayland to improve gaming - Vulkan is doing a great job for me with Lutris. I'm more looking forward for Wayland to replace X11. If that can improve gaming performance as well I''ll take it. But waiting for it no.
I agree with the wine developer comment about window management in Wayland not being ready for applications - and I've been using Wayland exclusively for about a year at this point. Several important features are still missing from the general protocols, and there doesn't seem to be any developer working on them (I have made several bug reports about missing window management features, such as "always on top", that are lying dormant).
At least there's some will to have those features now. The original sentiment among Wine maintainers was that since Wayland will "never" handle window management, Wine won't have a native Wayland driver, period.
Isn't "always on top" a windowing manager or compositor feature? Gnome Mutter supports it just fine. The Wayland protocol was never designed to be a window manager.
@@adaml.5355 many Wayland compositors have an "always on top" feature - I use kwin which obviously has it: you can click a button on the window decoration to activate it, or write a window rule to activate it automatically - but an application can't ask for this feature to be enabled programmatically - there's no protocol for that in the Wayland standard protocol suite. It's possible that GNOME has a private protocol for that (I haven't checked), but it's wrong to have a standard window management feature as a private extension: you can't require applications to create custom code to handle different Wayland compositors (always on top now works, but only on GNOME, not on Plasma or any other desktop) - standard features should have a standard globally accepted protocols. BTW - it is incorrect that Wayland doesn't have window management features - for example the activation protocol: it is definitely a window management feature. And there are others.
@@adaml.5355 pardon my ignorance, but isn't the protocol supposed to make the implementations compatible? if there were no wayland protocol for it, then the feature would be compositor specific/need different implementations per compositor?
I have a friend called Jacek, he was born in Poland and lived in England since he was tiny. He pronounces his name ‘Yassack’. Can’t speak to any other languages that might use that name though.
@ thank you for adding to my knowledge. I’ve been thinking about the issue of pronunciation for RUclipsrs and it seems that unlike the BBC, which at least had a department to assist, they’re mostly in their own.
Yeah it's Yatsek Polish isn't that hard to read, C is ts, G is always hard, Ch is the same as H, I is like ee, J is like Y, R is rolled, W is like V, Y is like schwa - Yh/Eh/Uh, only this one doesn't exactly exist in English. Plus all vowels are open, not rounded, U is not 'you', but like 'OO'. Oh and then there's compound ones like sz is sh, rz... oh I forgot about ż too, ok I changed my mind, it's pretty hard to read XDDD
I'm not a developer and don't know much about what goes on under the hood so to speak but I use wayland for gaming and X11 for everything else. Wayland allows me to take advantage of my primary monitors variable refresh rate for gaming while X11 has much better color on my secondary monitor. In theory I should be able to get VRR working on X11 but I have been unable, same for the colors in wayland, so l log out change session and log back in depending on what I'm doing.
Having just tested to wrangle with xorg to get it to simple as an offset to a monitor, I rejoice for Wayland to come supplant it as the system I will try and fail to work with next.
I LOVE WINE, and I have been able to run pretty much all the sofware I use like FL Studio, Photoshop, MS Office 10, Applewin, etc.. but THERE IS ONE Software I really use alot and can´t make it run on my KALI LINUX and it is the LOTUS ORGANIZER 6.0, its a really old program but is the best at what it does.
@@Печенька-л8з LOTUS Organizer version 6.1 (IBM), Its the Best organizer ever. I have been using it for so many years on my Windows Machines. but I want to have it in my Kali Linux. It does the installation and everything but it won[t launch. and I m using WINE 8.0 *Latest
Jacek Caban, Probably polish you should pronounce it sth like: Yahtzeck tzabun or tzaban :) Yahtzeck is basically Jack I doubt any Jacek would mind if you would call them Jack.
That is great news for ARC 770 16Gb, I just bought one, and on Linux it only works well with Wayland (and some games do'nt). It cost me 390 € on Amazon es, far less than 3060 TI at 425 the cheaper ones, and performing in windows as 3070 (there is a youtube video about it) and still drivers can improve, as its hardware is better than those results. In MS WOS Doom eternal gave me 80 fps more or less 4k with all maxed out. As I try not to use MS WOS unless it is necessary, and I want to replay that game at 4k, I will wait this upgrade to start that replay, and the doom 2016 one too.
@@Winnetou17 In 4k with the title about harry potter howards academy or something similar. In 1080p is slower. But if you are not going to play in 4k, better spend your money in a Steam deck than in a discrete GPU in my opinion. And if you are a FPS pro gamer you will buy the best. In price performance, 4k use, under 400 € is now the best, and as drivers are still not as good for performance for it raw power it will improve.
Can't really use Wayland until I get off my NVIDIA card. Mine just disagrees too much with it, even with KDE Wayland which use to work really well on it.
I honestly still fail to see the point of Wayland. Yes, X11 needs a successor. But Wayland absolutely, definitely, 100% isn't it. And never will be, not with Waylands absolutely braindead concepts. It's already a patchy mess, and it's only getting worse and worse.
I'm pretty sure we were talking about getting Linux drunk enough to run Windows software.
Xd
Linux can take way more bottles than Windows can, before getting fluffy.
Zing
That'll be a neat winetrick.
Linux Drunk?you must get sobber asap
Came in to say, that with enough 🍷, we can all be singing "BAYLAND WAD!"
Doesn't that mean that *all* Windows apps and games will no longer use XWayland for good, and that Proton will jump suit as well?
pretty sure valve is sponsoring this and SD already uses wayland, so it'd be weird if proton didn't move over as well.
@@swizzler That's what I hope. If this is the case, then this is great news.
That's the idea
steamdeck uses wayland for big picture, x11 for desktop
proton will definitely be getting this but my biggest hope is that this motivates gamescope to implement native wayland support (currently it only supports xwayland clients)
I really appreciate the goal to decomplex and speeding up the graphics pipeline. Circumventing Xorg more precisely xwayland as an unnecessary translation layer would create more space for optimization. This is needed urgently to get competitive fps. Alexandris Frantzis is working on that project for quite some time now and full support to him. But... what about key wine developers? As long as they don't implement upstream at least an experimental option for that, we might still be stuck for years.
So this means that it could give more FPS? Nice.
This is literal nonsense. Wine relies on direct rendering which is impossible on Wayland. Wine on Wayland involves MORE workarounds, not fewer.
As for "competitive FPS", lots of Windows games run faster on Wine on X11 than they do on Windows, on the same hardware...
considering that wine could not really be described as "stable / mature software" anyway, I think it's fine to move as fast and dangerous as they want. When we get to the point where we have something like 100% windows compatibility, then we can talk about breaking changes, etc.
I am in general agreement, though opening up compositor or window manager-specific fixes is just a catastrophe waiting to happen. It would cause an unprecedented amount of inaccurate bug reports and context-specific pull requests.
This is my wine glass. There are many others like it, but this one holds software.
MAN I LOVE LINUX!!!!!!!, THANKS FOR THE UPDATE
bro turn your caps lock off
Now we need them to finally make Wine compatible to Photoshop!
don't forget digital audio workstations! fl studio/ableton/cubase/etc.
@@frankhuurman3955 i've gotten fl 20 and 21 to work using wine
I use Wine with Lutris. To me gaming IS already easy thanks to Lutris launchers. It can even run dgvoodoo2 for old DOS games. I can't say I'm exactly waiting on Wayland to improve gaming - Vulkan is doing a great job for me with Lutris. I'm more looking forward for Wayland to replace X11. If that can improve gaming performance as well I''ll take it. But waiting for it no.
I agree with the wine developer comment about window management in Wayland not being ready for applications - and I've been using Wayland exclusively for about a year at this point.
Several important features are still missing from the general protocols, and there doesn't seem to be any developer working on them (I have made several bug reports about missing window management features, such as "always on top", that are lying dormant).
At least there's some will to have those features now. The original sentiment among Wine maintainers was that since Wayland will "never" handle window management, Wine won't have a native Wayland driver, period.
Isn't "always on top" a windowing manager or compositor feature? Gnome Mutter supports it just fine. The Wayland protocol was never designed to be a window manager.
@@adaml.5355 many Wayland compositors have an "always on top" feature - I use kwin which obviously has it: you can click a button on the window decoration to activate it, or write a window rule to activate it automatically - but an application can't ask for this feature to be enabled programmatically - there's no protocol for that in the Wayland standard protocol suite.
It's possible that GNOME has a private protocol for that (I haven't checked), but it's wrong to have a standard window management feature as a private extension: you can't require applications to create custom code to handle different Wayland compositors (always on top now works, but only on GNOME, not on Plasma or any other desktop) - standard features should have a standard globally accepted protocols.
BTW - it is incorrect that Wayland doesn't have window management features - for example the activation protocol: it is definitely a window management feature. And there are others.
@@adaml.5355 pardon my ignorance, but isn't the protocol supposed to make the implementations compatible? if there were no wayland protocol for it, then the feature would be compositor specific/need different implementations per compositor?
@@potatoes5829 this is generally the main argument against Wayland and it's a damn good one
cant wait for this to work! HDR through Proton anyone?
I think there was some development in that field, but not sure
I am trying to get windows games to run on Linux and someone suggested I try WINE. Well I did, the games still don't run and now I am drunk.
Try out new bottle
There is ALWAYS a new brodie video at the end of school :D
I have a friend called Jacek, he was born in Poland and lived in England since he was tiny. He pronounces his name ‘Yassack’. Can’t speak to any other languages that might use that name though.
Ya sack. Very close
Jacek Caban seems to be a Polish developer just like me. The name can be pronounced 'yatsek'.
@ thank you for adding to my knowledge. I’ve been thinking about the issue of pronunciation for RUclipsrs and it seems that unlike the BBC, which at least had a department to assist, they’re mostly in their own.
Yeah it's Yatsek
Polish isn't that hard to read, C is ts, G is always hard, Ch is the same as H, I is like ee, J is like Y, R is rolled, W is like V, Y is like schwa - Yh/Eh/Uh, only this one doesn't exactly exist in English. Plus all vowels are open, not rounded, U is not 'you', but like 'OO'. Oh and then there's compound ones like sz is sh, rz... oh I forgot about ż too, ok I changed my mind, it's pretty hard to read XDDD
15:15 yeah i like white wine.
I hope this'll fix the issue where games are limited to 1080p on Wayland but work fine in xorg.
FINAAALLLYYYY 😭
Considering gamescope in SteamOS is a Wayland compositor, I wonder if Valve has any involvement?
Valve is likely the main force behind these efforts through sponsoring Collabora.
cool
Why are you still pink
@@green3593 because it's my favourite colour?
Popping some bottles to this!!
I'm not a developer and don't know much about what goes on under the hood so to speak but I use wayland for gaming and X11 for everything else. Wayland allows me to take advantage of my primary monitors variable refresh rate for gaming while X11 has much better color on my secondary monitor. In theory I should be able to get VRR working on X11 but I have been unable, same for the colors in wayland, so l log out change session and log back in depending on what I'm doing.
GTK2 and Java are pretty much the last things keeping me from using native Wayland only. I don't complain though, they pretty much EOL
This is HUGE news holy moly
Having just tested to wrangle with xorg to get it to simple as an offset to a monitor, I rejoice for Wayland to come supplant it as the system I will try and fail to work with next.
Yesssss
Have you ever tried to run miracle box through wine and how can you install the driver we install via device manager.
How do you know if a program is using xwayland or Wayland native? Is there a command you can use to tell?
xprop
Proton depends upon SDL, and it does not have the capability to access PulseAudio and X11 directly.
Now if only steam could be updated with wayland support and be fully 64 bit so I could finally drop multilib
Wouldn't you need those 32bit libs also for the games that didn't switch to 64bit yet?
@@silentiadementia only if the game is Linux native. WoW64 handles 32 bit to 64 but conversion for windows executables
Valve has no plans to drop 32-bit libs from Steam, unfortunately
I LOVE WINE, and I have been able to run pretty much all the sofware I use like FL Studio, Photoshop, MS Office 10, Applewin, etc.. but THERE IS ONE Software I really use alot and can´t make it run on my KALI LINUX and it is the LOTUS ORGANIZER 6.0, its a really old program but is the best at what it does.
What lotus organizer does? Why cannot you run it?
@@Печенька-л8з LOTUS Organizer version 6.1 (IBM), Its the Best organizer ever. I have been using it for so many years on my Windows Machines. but I want to have it in my Kali Linux. It does the installation and everything but it won[t launch. and I m using WINE 8.0 *Latest
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO
I use wine mostly through proton and lutris these days. I sincerely hope I will never have to touch bare wine ever again. That way lies madness.
Jacek Caban, Probably polish you should pronounce it sth like:
Yahtzeck tzabun or tzaban :)
Yahtzeck is basically Jack
I doubt any Jacek would mind if you would call them Jack.
i still have to wait dGPU nvidia performance still behind (recent phoronix benchmark). I already lose fps due to 4gb vram pressure
Brodie gigachad
The are working on wine Wayland, I think it's coming at the last quarter of this year
Wayland stands for Wayland, always, yes love always, not done
HaHa, good one!
That is great news for ARC 770 16Gb, I just bought one, and on Linux it only works well with Wayland (and some games do'nt). It cost me 390 € on Amazon es, far less than 3060 TI at 425 the cheaper ones, and performing in windows as 3070 (there is a youtube video about it) and still drivers can improve, as its hardware is better than those results. In MS WOS Doom eternal gave me 80 fps more or less 4k with all maxed out. As I try not to use MS WOS unless it is necessary, and I want to replay that game at 4k, I will wait this upgrade to start that replay, and the doom 2016 one too.
Where did you see ARC 770 performing as 3070 ? From the (quite many) reviews I've seen, it rarely gets close to it. Usually is about 20% slower.
@@Winnetou17 In 4k with the title about harry potter howards academy or something similar. In 1080p is slower. But if you are not going to play in 4k, better spend your money in a Steam deck than in a discrete GPU in my opinion. And if you are a FPS pro gamer you will buy the best. In price performance, 4k use, under 400 € is now the best, and as drivers are still not as good for performance for it raw power it will improve.
@@Winnetou17 Copy pasted from Unigine benchmark page 1080 extreme benchmark 1532 albrecht AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-Core Processor
MSI GeForce RTX 3070 (GA104)
8742
1533 matt_illi AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8-Core Processor
MSI Radeon RX 6900 Series (Navi 21)
8725
1534 TekNativo AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-Core Processor
Intel Arc A770
8722 ... 8742 3070 (5600X) vs 8725 RX 6900 (5800X) vs 8722 A770 (5600X) and 770 is cheaper, and better raw performance, that will become, with better drivers, faster.
@@mitcoes Ah, ok
HE SAID HYPRLAND
I see you added your contribution!
i dont like wine i but i do like mixing other drinks
i use wine
but only in form of proton
Jacek ≈ Ya-tsek
(at least in Polish)
Factorio runs without wine under Linux, what was that supposed to show?
the application having a Linux port has little relevance over the matter
Factorio and Wine? At least ProtonDB tells me, Factorio is available as a native app
Yes it is. But since Wine's end goal is to be able to run anything from Windows this is a good test regardless
He also did a test with the windows version of libre office, the app selection wasn't really important
I’m pretty sure factorio runs better on Linux, if I do an optimization to factorio with huge pages it runs ~20 faster.
audio crackly
>Call of Duty 2 is boomer
dems fighting words bruuuuh
There's nothing wrong with being a boomer
@@BrodieRobertson lol that's the thing I'm not a boomer it was just my childhood reeeeeeeeeee
@@Bagginsess Boomer is just a mindset lol
@@BrodieRobertson I know I'm just messing around and being salty haha
@@Bagginsess I'm playing through God Of War over on the gaming channel so I'm in the same boat
Dude, you have such a hard time pronouncing Polish names and surnames, LOL. I'm gonna help you with that:
Jacek Caban => "YahTzeck TzaBan"
Who's gay ming?😂
Can't really use Wayland until I get off my NVIDIA card. Mine just disagrees too much with it, even with KDE Wayland which use to work really well on it.
(Happy fedora noises)
+1
+2
2+3
@@RobertHalvarsson 5
2+2 is 4 -1 is 3
Don't think that'll make Linux gaming suddenly "WHOA OMG AAAAAAHHHH"... but at the very least, best case scenario... 3 fps boost.
I don't think the fps is primary motivation to do this at all. But rather get the unmaintained X11 stack out from wayland.
You should have just used Xorg - WINE has been running just fine on that for years.
wayland? more like no-way-land am I right
*laughs until death*
I honestly still fail to see the point of Wayland. Yes, X11 needs a successor. But Wayland absolutely, definitely, 100% isn't it. And never will be, not with Waylands absolutely braindead concepts. It's already a patchy mess, and it's only getting worse and worse.
You’re free to start your own competing standard, but for the most part, everyone who was using Xorg is shifting to wayland based desktops
+1