From office PC to retro gaming rig (take 1)
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2020
- Time to see if we can do something useful with the Packard Bell PC that came with the 486 I got recently. The PC was obviously not used as a gaming rig, as it had a bunch of office related stuff on it and was running Windows XP.
So lets see if we can turn this into an actual Windows 98 retro gaming machine.
#PackardBell #Retro #Windows98 
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I had an AMD K6-2 based PC for years. With an AGP video card it was excellent. Never died, just aged out. I have the proc in a drawer somewhere.
Love the way you always made the intros, the slow travelling to downwards. Your videos spread a lot of love and dedication, thank you so much for sharing it with us. Greetings from Spain
Great Video. Super chilled. Keep it coming!
Those speakers !! Wow !!
Think you're the first person Ive ever heard say they love the Banshee. I liked seeing the problems you had like the USB driver. Everytime I format and reinstall theres always one thing that Ive overlooked no matter how much I tried.
It was the first standalone PCI 3DFX card I had. And I like the simplicity of it. No passthrough, no 2 graphics cards. It is a bit slower and there are some compatibility issues, but I do like the card for some reason .... perhaps it's the name :)
5:06 What's a bit weird about this motherboard is that the BIOS setup is not in regular text mode, but in 640x350 text mode, which has its own set of characters. It's basically the EGA text mode, not the VGA text mode. Usually you see the 640x350 text mode only at the POST screen of some motherboards. Later most manufacturers switched to 640x480 mode for the POST screen; with an Award BIOS this was used to display 30 lines instead of the usual 25 lines.
i had an AMD K6 333MHz + voodoo 2 back in 1998 and had so much fun with it although the cpu was quite underwhelming. Rainbow Six, Half-Life and Unreal just to name a few of the classics I played
OPHCrack. It’s a free download and there are versions that can get you into NT4/2K/XP and Vista/7.
Also, abysmal is the nicest thing I can say about SIS 530 graphics. I had the same chip in a Compaq Presario (along with the ESS1969) and all it was good for was pre-Quake DOS games. Moving to a Nvidia TNT was a huge breath of fresh air.
Can imagine ... was with someone last night and he also had a k6-2 in a compaq. Didn’t see the motherboard but I assume it was very similar to this one. Would love to get myself a tnt or tnt2 but they are pretty expensive in pci.
do more of these videos ! very entertaining!!thanks mr.spector
OMG! Those speakers gives me goosebumps. Brutal sound back then.
I had the model with the black speaker cover.
I had the beige ones that looked pretty much like those, but I think the badging was different. I think several companies marketed that set and one OEM made them. Who, I don't know. But those were the first speakers I got with my first PC-compatible... a Pentium system from ZEOS back in 1994. And yeah, they kind of kicked butt.
Good old days!
The fastest K6-2 CPU was the AMD-K6-2+/570ACZ. Although being targeted as mobile CPU, many Super 7 mobos were able to correctly handle it.
Just a few years ago the 500AFX was a very common find - this is over by now. Nice old rig, especially with that SiS 530 chipset. I have an AT form factor motherboard with this chipset, however I have not find out its best use yet. Probably an overkill machine for later DOS games would be a good idea. :)
I wish there was an extra thumbs up button, because you get one from me just for playing Carmageddon! Such a great game. I spent too many hours on playing that one when I was younger. Cheers.
Wow!! This was our family’s first desktop computer but ours had the Pentium II in it. Definitely brings back some memories!!
Glad you enjoyed it !
That looks like a swift, automated, unattended install of windows 98 with that restore cd. Quite a bit different then my attempt at installing windows 98 SE on a pentium 4 (asus p4p 800 deluxe) with a whopping 2 gb of ram. There where some challenges but I preserved and made it work. It required the use of a ram patch a Scitech display doctor because my agp 128mb 8x card doesn’t play nicely with windows 98. Eventhough the official drivers support 98SE, it always resulted in an unbootable windows. The drivers would install, but something about it wouldn’t work. The machine works a charm with windows xp though.
These super socket 7 atx boards are very rare these days. I really like this neat micro atx one! Great options for retro gaming from DOS up to Windows 98SE. The ESS Solo-1 is PCI based so not my first choice for DOS gaming, but offers great compatibility and ESFM that I really like. Thanks for the presentation! Btw.. This would be a great setup for a Hercules 3D Prophet 4000XT (STB Kyro 1) PCI card I think?
yes it would .... if I had one :) but they are a bit too expensive now ... only have the AGP version unfortunately.
AMD K6-2 500 MhZ (overclocked to 550 MhZ) + 2x Voodoo 2 and RAM maxed out...
When I was young it was my gaming PC at the time
and i loved this PC...
Thanks for mentioning the usb problem, I forgot how many times it annoyed me when I ran into this driver problem
Yeah... also forgot the difference in drivers between win98 second edition and first edition.
I had an IBM Aptiva with a very very similar hardware configuration, between the CPU, onboard audio and video and even the sparse (although differently styled) BIOS set up. The performance for games like duke3d and quake was very very similar.
For USB mass storage support, try the universal USB stack (nusb33 or nusb36) for Windows 98. You will need to remove any existing USB host controller interfaces, and any 3rd party USB storage drivers before installing the universal stack. It works great in Windows 98SE, though I have never tested this on Windows 98. If the goal is to use somewhat period-correct hardware, you might also try an Iomega USB ZIP drive. The "unofficial service pack" for Win98 also adds a lot of great fixes. Patches for Windows 98 written by the late Rudolph R. "Rudy" Loew (a very talented developer who, sadly, passed away in 2019) apply numerous fixes, such as "PATCHMEM," which addresses problems in Win98 for configurations with more than 512 MB, among many others. Rudy's family recently uploaded his brilliant work to the Internet Archive.
nusb36 only works on win98se. (also forgot about that).
Had a PC with that processor in it that accompanied me for the best part of my youth. The motherboard I used with it had no integrated video, and had AGP 2x. Late in the life of that system I put a 64 MB GeForce 2 MX400 video card in it (had a Trident card before) and the system became quite good for gaming back then, having an OK performance even when it started to become dated (around 1st gen Pentium 4 / Athlon XP era). No on-board sound either, the ISA slot had a Sound Blaster 16 PnP in it.
Mine would not run Windows XP (constant blue screen after first step of installation) due to what I believe to be a BIOS bug that was never fixed, so it was always on Windows 98 SE. As far as more modern OSes went, Linux ran just fine on that machine, but I had to pass a special switch in the kernel command line to work around the BIOS bug (otherwise it would hang with a kernel panic during boot).
It felt nice for me to see a K6-2 system running again.
The date on the CPU was 51st week of 1999. That machine was therefore likely sold in the first couple of months of 2000. So, it was very nearly obsolete at that time already. Typical Packard Bell fare. Pentium III and Athlon had launched a year before and the K6-2 machines were then competing at the low end with highly overclockable Mendocino core Celerons. and then the mighty Duron in mid 2000.
The K6-2 was my go-to chip when building someone a low-cost machine from about 1997 to early 1999, particularly if they had a Super Socket 7 board already.
you are right better was to go with supersocket 7 and agp slot. but this was meant to be office pc, not gaming rig. it was good for end 99 as an office pc.
@@warrax111 In the US at least, Packard Bell wasn't an office oriented brand, it was low-end aimed at home consumers. Businesses went with Dell, IBM and Compaq. It was very common to find people who had bought a Packard bell someplace like Best Buy or CompUSA who were sold a bill of goods and were disappointed with the fact that the "specifications" on their computer masked the fact that the CPUs were a couple of generations old and there was no upgradeability from the vampire video.
@@dennisp.2147 just put voodoo2 in it, and its good gaming rig. i was on k6-2+ 500 with voodoo2 from 1999 to maugust 2002, when we upgade because of moorrowind. 2001-2002 era was a little bit pain tho with that setup, had to skip even giants to 640x480 medium details. voodoo2 in end of 1999 was already about $60 bucks.
Dad bought me my first PC in October 1998 as a gift for graduating into University. It was built with :
CPU: K6-2 300 MHz
Mother Board: FIC VA-503+ MVP3 Super7 VIA Apollo chipset, Baby AT form factor, with one AGP slot !, 3 PCI slots, 3 16 bit ISA slots
RAM: Though the MB had SIMM and DIMM RAM slots mine was equipped one DIMM RAM stick , but I can't remember what capacity
HDD: WDC 4Gb IDE
Floppy Disk drive
A really fast 36X CD-ROM driver
Video : AGP S3 Virge GX/DX2 video card
Sound: I think it was Opti with yamaha chipset (could be wrong here) on ISA slot.
I got a few games on it when it arrived: Age of Empires, Tomb Raider, and my all time favorite retro game, Quake 2. Man I played that game the whole winter back then. Not to mention that in that period we had a lot of PC games rooms/saloons/arcade (joints :) and I was playing Multiplayer Quake 1 with my buddies and when coming home I was on Quake 2 singleplayer( I had no internet at all back then). In March 1999 I think, we started to play Quake 2 multiplayer as well. I can still remember the first day I got my PC. I played that Quake 2 for days and nights, my first week with a new PC in house was like Eat-Sleep-Game :) .
@Dalle Smalhals I was good with electronics, after all I did graduated the Electronics High School, but even though I also knew English and BASIC language, and I was familiar with PC's, I we were a bit on the low budget and I didn't know pretty much how PC parts were put together (until l got mine). My knowledge for PC's was only how they looked on the outside. Back then I was more into music and music equipment and radio equipment.
*serves up 14 PCI graphics cards* "I don't have any PCI graphics card!"
I meant “special” PCI cards. They were never really of interest to me as I think in the pre-voodoo 1 and pre-3D gaming the videocard wasn’t all that important. None of these s3,cirrus logics, tridents do any 3D and as such are all the same to me. Riva cards, certain matrox cards, nvidea / ati pci cards are a different league.
@Mr Guru I upgraded a client's office PC from a dead P3 system to a P4 mini itx system and while everything worked great, I spent hours just on getting Win98SE to see more than 512MB of ram. He had 1GB with the P4. Finally got it after alot of googling and tweaking lines in DOS config files. I never saw out of the box native support for more than 512MB ram in Windows 98SE ever. I did see it for Windows ME and then Windows 2000 though.
@Mr Guru Do 3DFx games run with that kind of GPU?
@@pianokeyjoe Is 1GB even necessary to run old games at maximum settings (and with 3D acceleration)?
I'd much prefer to spare me the hassle if I can get away with 512 MB.
@@souljastation5463 No sir! I was commenting based on my experience of Win98SE vs 1GB ram on a P4 in general. My client was a locksmith using an old expensive keying system software that he did not want to pay for a windows XP compatible version of, so I had to move his old Win98SE HDD from his dead P3 system, to the new P4 system. For music and gaming in the retro windows and retro DOS and heck, even retro Linux, scene, 512MB is plenty and may even be the maximum reliably supported!
Windows ME is the first version to ship with USB mass storage by default
Well, it works with USB flash drives?
FWIW, I never had much luck with 98 back in the day - seemed really hacked together. WinME was pretty solid for me, though.
I remember having the same sis 530 chipset and cpu growing up, most people had the 450 Mhz or lower. I think I actually kept the cpu somewhere as a keepsake. I even would mess with the jumpers and set it to 5.5 ratio, can't remember if I messed with the voltage to get it stable. I even once considered trying to get a k6-3 in there. However by then the k6 line was dead, pentium 3 and athlon's reigned supreme. Being pci, I was limited on what I could put in there. I had a kyro II 3d prophet 4500 pci card with 64 mb installed. It was the only way for me to really game on a machine limited by no agp.
I remember a friend of mine who was a little older and working in the IT field for various companies throughout the years, he thought I was crazy when I purchased a 60gb hard drive and 128MB for the machine. That friend however thought 64MB was huge and was used to earlier computing, but I did a lot of multitasking and browsed a lot of pages and had music open while I gamed or had some sharing program to get mp3's and movies. I later added another 128MB stick and gave him the 64MB and my old 56k modem when I got DSL. It was a nice hardware modem, but I had to have room for my dsl card, network card and video card. I later upgraded and my brother had this computer to use as his primary one.
My friend wanted us to get dsl at his house and use a cantenna to send the signal down to my house. I would split the cost of the bill and pay for the hardware and get dsl down to my house. Now I wasn't terribly worried about latency or drop outs or lossed packets and other interference as I didn't know at the time. However he was several houses down and I guess people at the time were doing similar stuff. I knew how he used the internet and dsl was slow at the time. He'd have stuff downloading on each of his many computers and laptops. Some of it taking hours to day. He was big into file sharing on irc and the early forms of file sharing. I remember he had an extensive collection of burnt divx movies, many were even cam releases. Most of those he'd download where he worked as they had a T3 line. So I opted not to share the internet with him and just payed for it myself. That seemed like a terrible idea, but I realize now, that I would have been frustrated trying to game online with lost packets and added latency. Even if it worked for basic browsing. Dsl in our area was bad enough, they had something that ensured your packets were all correct and added like 40-60 latency to your line. When cable came along he wanted to try that again but didn't want to pay for the wireless router or cantenna's. However I got cable and dumped dsl ever since. Not that I wouldn't dump the garbage fire that is comcast in a heart beat for fiber internet.
15:26 I love how the game cooperated with your explanation on the poor integrated graphics showing that big "FIASCO" wallboard ad.
haha ... didn't even notice that :) nice catch.
I had a similar k6/2 550mhz with my blazing fast voodoo 2 banshee back in early 2000!
The AMD K6 series (all versions) make for a decent retro DOS gaming setup. Basically they are just Pentium class CPUs on steroids and while AMD added a LOT of features the CPUs still retain solid compatibility with the original Pentium architecture which makes them great for older Pentium era games as well as newer games that needed a PII or PIII. It isn't hard to find compatible "super socket 7" boards with AGP either so well worth looking into for a more affordable retro build. IMO, it is one of the most compatible systems for retro gaming. Anything made after those old IBM XT games that got their frame timing from the CPU clock speed all the way through to games like Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament.
I still own an old working Real3D Starfighter PCI graphics accelerator card that should be considered rare because it was made by a short lived company in the 1990's called Real3D that was owned and created by Lockheed Martin Corp. The video card is based on Intel's first ever discrete GPU called the i740 which was only really meant for first generation AGP cards. I also still own an original working intel Celeron Slot 1 300MHz Covington CPU which I would think is also rare and hard to find now because it was also a was a failure from intel in the late 1990's.
Nice one ... fun to learn about these more obscure cards ... I never really cared that much about videocards. The only thing I kept from my teenage years was my 3DFX Voodoo 1 card that I found in my attic 25 years later :) I do remember the Matrox / Riva / Voodoo era and have fond memories of those ...
Covington was a failure because it sucked... it had no L2 cache... and thus was about half the speed of Mendocino at the same clock rate. So basically it was about the speed of a Pentium 200 MMX. Covington was released in April 1998, and replaced by Mendocino in August.
I had a 300A Mendo back in the day that ran at 450MHz all day... used it from late 1998 until I upgraded to a 600MHz Coppermine Celeron with a Slot-1 to FC-PGA converter board, about 2000-ish... yeah, back then I stayed on the cutting edge, not like now... unfortunately I couldn't get it to overclock like the 300A and quickly moved to a P3-700, which did overclock to 933, quite fast at the time... but I digress...
Anyway, over a decade later, I pulled the 300A out of retirement and it worked at first but I ended up frying it; I don't know why exactly. Maybe overclocking it 50% all the time shortened its life, maybe it was the motherboard, but whatever, I couldn't get it to work again. Ah, well. I wasn't using it anyway.
I remember installing and playing Warcraft 3 frozen throne with that integrated video. Fun times editing the windows registry so i can play it on 320x240 and having 20 fps.
Just found out about this channel, going to auto sub cause retro stuffs!
The Voodoo² is the obvious choice for this build!
Carmageddon II and Road Rash are sacred to me
Hehe ... will have to stick to Road Rash in its current configuration on this one :) but yesterday I was with some friends and popped a Banshee in it and Carma2 ran great. Other guy had a pentium 200mmx + voodoo2 but that was a tad slower.
I use a P3 450 retro pc to drive my samplers in my music studio, so when i saw 3 days ago the banshee in my local market for 50€ i bought it. I have some experience with Voodoo. I owned 1,2, banshee and 3 3000 at some point of my life but idk why i had the least problems with banshee card.
The one that i had was from creative labs.
That tower was first computer my family got ( came with Packard Bell CRT with speakers that clipped on the side) had a Celeron CPU though around 500mhz
If you like linux there are some livecds with the ntpasswd utility, is not very userfriendly but it works flawlessly. I prefer the one shipped with sysrescuecd
Billy Coore should see this...
Thx for the tip .... he just got a new sub :) ... It's a shame youtube hardly puts the smaller channels in peoples recommended videos stream
I always liked the NECpowervr PCI card. It may not have been as prevalent as the 3D Effect cards but then again the best format does not always win, Betamax anyone.
8-bit palletted textures, supported graphics cards are the ones I am most interested in.
I would have stuck in the Rendition V2100 but I'm weird.
Also this is VERY similar to my Compaq K6-2 500MHz PC that I use for really old PCI 3D accelerators.
I was at the local computer club on friday and a friend had a weird looking compaq machine also with a k2-500 and ess sound card. Didn’t see the motherboard but suspect something very similar. Tried the Rendition briefly but didn’t blew me away and thought it might be better suited for a slightly older build. But still learning about these pci cards as I never really paid much attention to them. 3DFX is the easy upgrade path (love the banshee I am currently playing with right now). But the PCI era of 3D acceleration is very interesting (albeit a lot more difficult to track down). Appreciate the comment !
I remember playing Quake at those low resolutions. Made it more stressful because enemies sort of blended into the background. 512 x 384 was the sweet spot on Voodoo 1 cards.
It didn't even look like he was in hardware rendering mode...
Yeah, I don't think he was. You'd really have to stay at 320 x 200 for maximum framerate playing online without 3D hardware
nice peripherals
Oh dear. Yes, I get it. I went from 98SE to Win7 ('kay I did have one 2K sys running for a while due to the number of connections). But this is more like 95B hardware. Was running a bad Celeron in a bigtower when this sys came out on 98SE already. Last intel I bought. After that came the slot-Athlons (PII period). For 98SE I'd recommend something with a KT400/ KM400 chipset from VIA. KM with graphics, KT without. You may want to replace some elcos. Cheap so plentiful, stable, reliable.
I gave the video a like anyways. i had a k62-350 system that i peiced together using oem parts, as well as a "mediocre" video card. I did get lucky and got a creative blaster banshee soon after. Back then getting a 3d blaster banshee anything required deep pockets and being fortunate enough they had them in stock. Unless you either had deep pockets, or parents used to getting you what you wanted... I guess. So, the fact that a "mediocre" card was chosen earns some respect, especially to those of us who were working slaves at the time. Also, choosing "The full Packard Bell experience" is very heart warming.
Regarding the limited BIOS options, try dumping it and running it through AMIBCP. On a similar aged Packard Bell OEM motherboard (although 440LX/PPGA370) I've found a whole lot of interesting options hidden, including overclocking (!). If, for example, you could unlock a way to play with memory timings that should help the integrated graphics a bit.
Thanks for the tip.
Where could one find those Master Restore CD's? I'd like them to restore my Packard Bell computers. (CD's for other brands would be welcome too)
I'd love to get that case as I had one of them new, 700mhz version.
I have a Packard Bell that's a 550 mhz and I just finished working on it and it's a blast. It's a shame that the case was a challenge to open up.
AMDs K6-III classic or + (the K6-II+ or III+ should work on this mainboard with the latest bios) and a 3dfx Voodoo 3 2000 PCI/3000 PCI is a very nice upgrade for this classic PC.
yes, but good luck finding a voodoo3 PCI in 2020 :(
Voodoo Banshee, also good for an AMD K6-II system.
" Grand Prix 2, an old favourite of mine". Proceeds going on the sand and making a huge crash in the first corner of Monza.
Did a small Vettel there I know ... but camera and lights were in the way and was in a very awkward position .... fact that it has been 25 years since I really played it might also say something.
@@RetroSpector78 Haha, I was joking man.
Bought myself a Compaq Deskpro 400 with a Pentium MMX 233 Mhz for 20 $ !!!
Can't wait to install the game and play it.
What rendition card do you have? I had a v1000 for years then moved to a v2200 before getting a tnt... All off eBay over the years for about $30 each, long past their prime
The Diamond Stealth II S220 Rendition Vérité V2100 graphics PCI card.
It's a shame the DOS support is so bad for non vesa modes.
@@mc0burn true, i had forgotten that part of it. Basic vga modes were so slow, but the accelerated games looked fantastic.
Voodoo pci card and a isa slot sound blaster 😎👍
Hi,I've a question
Using a proper CRT Monitor that has VGA output
In order to play correctly DOS Games Who have 320*200 or 620*480 native resolution
In the Monitor CRT and on the Video card of the PC, what's the resolution that I have to set?
Thanks
you should check out the NVIDIA Quadro NVS 280 PCI version i just got one for a retro 98 pc and so far it works well even has win98 drivers (81.98 forceware) is the drive I used so far. I got the card for $8 ebay
Does not work with some VESA games that require line frame buffer. Well known issue with win98SE games such as FIFA 98/99/2000. It might be cheap, but it's not the best option out there.
Well I did get a NVIDIA Quadro4 100 NVS PCI that I will show in a future video with this PC, but haven't had much luck with it yet... lockups / screen freezes / weird stuff being show on screen....
@@RetroSpector78 wow that doesn't sound very good. could it be a bad card or bad VRAM on the card?
Very good, even SiS 6328 is propably faster than that integrated videocard in that PC.
You mean SiS 6326? This is exactly the GPU integrated in the SiS 530 :)
@@meiklman Yes, my card do in same tests few fps more. Maybe my CPU (Athlon XP 1700+) maked that difference.
Why you insist that software renderers in quake 1, nfs 2, carma 1, nfs 3(? I don't remember does it has software renderer, hard to tell from footage) has anything to do with GPU?
17:05 what is that cute cartoon platformer game with the bunny? XD I wanna try it :)
Jazz jackrabbit 2
I got several ATI Rage PCI cards in the basement, would you recommend those for a retro built or should I look for something else?
if u have agp mobo, go with agp card instead. they are much faster. ati rage pci is good maybe for pentium 100 mhz build, but as a retro build i would go with amd k6-2 500 or pentium II 450, nothing less.
i've just build p 233mmx but as second retro comp for comparsion to p II. as primary, its too slow
Love the video! Love those packard bell! My current favorite PC is an eMachines with a P3 on it and a couple of V2 in SLi! Also used the recovery CD for my eTower... Back then I despised the recovery CD and always went clean install, but now I try and get them back to factory defaults! Time teaches us to cleanup those images and make them nice! Did you get that master CD from Archive.ORG?
yes I got it from archive.org ... think it was the 1998 recovery disk, but as it didn't install the correct video drivers I guess it was the wrong one.
Is it an eMachines eMonster?
I have an eMachines eMonster 550
I purchased the original recovery CD for it at eBay when both were offered for sale.
Mine had a ATI Rage 128 card in it which was OK for gaming but I can see why you put Voodoo 2's in SLI in there as well.
Hopefully you got a beefier replacement power supply for it.
Another note when I replaced the ATI Rage 128 with a 3DFX Voodoo 3 3500 TV card I noticed the DVD player wouldn't play DVD Movies now this might not be the case with Voodoo 2's using a passthrough cable to the ATI graphics card.
I did have success on using later Radeon cards though like the Radeon 7500 so the DVD player functioned perfectly with DVD movies.
@@m9078jk3 My eMachines is an eTower 633ids... Original specs where onBoard Intel i810 graphics, 633 Celeron, and 64MB ram... It has been bumped to Pentium III 800MHz. 512MB RAM and a 80GB Seagate HDD, and then augmented with the VooDoo 2 SLi setup... The one annoying thing with mine is that you cannot fully disable the onboard audio... You can move the jumper, disable it on the BIOS but it is allways detected... found a couple BIOS updates but to no avail... Wanted to add a SB Live! sound card but my OCD cannot allow one to be there with a "!" on my device manager... My recovery came from Archive.org... and never a Windows ME installation run so smooth :)
@@NiPPonD3nZ0 I could upgrade the CPU to 800 Mhz on that machine too but I have a couple of other Pentium III systems around that speed as well as a 1 GHz Athlon Thunderbird system which was the first new system that I built from individual components. However I had learned to build computers from thrift store (Goodwill and Salvation Army) bought ones like used Pentium systems,486's,386's,286's and 8088 systems back in 1999 and 2000 for $10 USD each. It was a good learning experience and I resold most of them for profit and upgrades on my PC's.
@@m9078jk3 also have a few Athlon and even other Pentium III systems of the same vintage... But I cannot get myself to leave these systems stock...
Great video! What is the bike game at 16:55 ? And the platform jumping game at 17:00? Just found 15 euro Celeron 333mhz desktop from fleamarket without a HD. Got to build me up a comparable retro machine too! Thanks
Road Rash and Jazz JackRabit 2. the Celeron 333 is a good platform to start. If you don't have any 3D requirements than I would just slap in a hard drive, install win98 and play some games :)
@@RetroSpector78 Thanks! I will try to find those to try them out. Both are new to me. Great channel too - keep up the good work :)
I see password pro is a great software, works on all windows versions, found a code for it right here on youtube.
There is also a registry hack I can't remember at the moment.
I have only one PCI and it's the ATI 128 pro. It's inside a coppermine P3 1Ghz I found in the trash! :)
I have some random AGP I found in the trash too. No AGP computer.
Not all that familiar with those early ATI cards. Always found there model names to be somewhat confusing. Was following a PCI ATI Rage 128 on ebay, listed as an ATI 128 Pro but seems to be a standard ATI Rage 128.
I'd still say Need for Speed III is quite fun to play even on specs as low as my Pentium MMX 166 using 320x240 and low settings with software rendering.
I actually managed to grab a Geforce 4 MX 440 PCI (yet thy made PCI versions of these). Serves me very well in a Compaq Pentium III system that also has no AGP and horrible onboard graphics. Not every driver works flawlessly though, took a bit of trial and error.
IIRC Sound Blaster Pro compatibility wasn't really something to be excited about, almost any 3-rd party "AC-97" onboard audio chip was able to provide it; but that's a lower-quality sound (8-bit only). The pinacle was the Sound Blaster 16 standard, and that wasn't achievable on PCI, not without adding proprietary extra connections -- see "SB-LINK".
This is not necessarily true as Sound Blaster Pro compatibility was a big thing around the late ninety's on pci chipsets, a lot of pci cards claimed they had it while using unstable ways (proprietary technologies) to achieve sound on dos or sometimes not working at all because of stupid requirements from motherboard chipset manufacturer, others use pure software emulation (see ensoniq and creative pci cards) which wasn't compatible as real SB cards because of the 32 bit protected mode requirement need for the emulation to work. the only cards i know that was able to have best sound blaster compatibility without needing dumb technologies like Distributed DMA "D-DMA" or Sideband Link "SB-LINK/PC-PCI" were Aureal Vortex line and the ESS pci family audio chipsets.
fyi the AC-97 sound codec standard never had sound blaster compatibility unless you are talking about the use sound blaster emulation on Windows98se/ME emulation driver which isn't the same as native real mode dos support.
Btw there were a couple of pci audio chipsets which did give Sound Blaster 16 support for 16 Bit audio in native dos but their compatibility was hot garbage. (see CMI and ALS4000 based pci chipsets for example)
microsoft office xp
I had that version on my very first pc
Who makes that computer monitor?! Been looking for something like that
It is a Vibrant vl5a9da-e11. There is one on ebay for 5 EUR in France :)
I lost so much time to F1GP2 as a teenager I don't even know where to begin.
@RetroSpector78 .. for your consideration... the best machine for '90s gaming .. or 90s everything actually... and also 2000 - 2008 I dare to say.... is the mythical Intel SE440BX-2 ..
is the top of its class.. the last one....... absolutely 100% retro compatible with absolutely everything.....
beyond her... you lose things... because there are no drivers for win9x... because everything was already designed for WinXP or higher etc..
And you can take her to the limit of what the 90's era was.... with a Pentium III MMX 750MHz CPU (with the latest bios update she support until that one) and max her out with 768Mb 133Mhz RAM
..
with a AGP Nvidia TNT Diamond Viper V550 (16Mb) ... or a any other TNT2 (32Mb) .... (also last boards with full compatible with win9x using the Nvidia Detonator's drivers 4.12) you can play CounterStrike 1.6 at 1152x864 60 - 70fps perfectly.... (get a 486 that do that)...
and almost .. ( almost ).. you can crawl play Half-Life 2 ..
being a game created almost 10 years after the manufacture of that motherboard ... is really remarkable...
I still have her ... it was my every day machine until 2008 (with multiboot Ranish Partition Manager WinXP/WinME/MS-DOS'98)
i use it way beyond her "expiration date"..
and i still use here and there ... for retro gaming.... or play music with my SoundBlaster SB16 SCSI-2 from 1992...
Great info here ... thanks a lot. Don’t think I have such a board ... but will check... have lots and lots and lots of motherboards I need to go through ... will probably make a video on that.
Although people tend to recommend FX 5200/5500 a lot, these cards don't work if there is no AGP bus on the motherboard. I personally consider the TNT1/2/M64 with good display output to be the most compatible PCI cards. GeForce 2mx and 4mx on PCI are also good, but very rare. Not sure about mx4000 Geforce cards, they came out later and might require an AGP bus on the motherboard. Radeons are as iffy as FX cards, I have a Radeon 9000 which works on PCI motherboards, but a later 9250 that I sold didn't boot on motherboards without AGP bus for the integrated graphics.
A TNT1 would be the right era for this machine. Or if you can't find one for cheap, a TNT2 M64 would have slightly better performance, and if you ask on a forum if anyone's got a spare you could buy, you'd probably get half a dozen nerds throwing them in your face just to get rid of them. At least that's the case for AGP cards, not so sure about PCI. In any case, neither will do that sweet 3dfx Glide API, but OpenGL games should be fine.
i'm pretty sure that's a false rumor, the pci variant of the fx cards are capable of running on non agp bus based boards because the nvidia graphics chipset can run in native pci mode. (no agp texturing)
i believe the real reason as to why these cards don't really work on older boards is because they are not used on compatible pci voltages which some pci slots lack.
i was able to use my fx 5500 pci on my SIS 486 pci board with an pci to pci adapter with the universal key slot in order to get my board to post.
I had the Riva TNT2 at one point and it worked pretty well with a K6-2 system back in the day. Still not as good as Voodoo2 though.
Packard Bell aka Packard Hell
Bc lots of them were returned with defects or errors.
And if not, users were confronted with bloatware anyway, actually before that was even a thing...
An old AMD K-series, sweet!
And< yep = that old trick with ctrl-alt-del works often))) Easier was on 98 where you just hit esc and it logs in))) S - for Security)))
Each USB stick used to come with those tiny cd's with the appropriate driver for win98...
Was with some people yesterday evening and they also had their retro rigs. One had an old Compaq (also with an AMD K6-2). He had done a fresh win98 install and had the same usb driver issue. But nobody had a floppy disk to copy the usb drivers. We also couldn't copy stuff over the network because he didn't have the drivers for it. When I tried hooking up his hard drive to this computer to copy some stuff the computer was stuck on the hard drive detection. And so we lost over an hour trying different things :)
Use nusb usb storage drivers, they're awesome
I tried Windows 98 on an AMD Duron system, and I just couldn't get USB to work - no matter what USB drivers I tried, the system would crash as soon as I inserted a USB thumb drive. It's finicky on Win 98. I didn't want to waste any more time on it and installed Win XP - no problems there.
Grappig een Nederlandse Windows XP computer.
Funny a Dutch Windows XP computer.
I'm surprised to see an ESS sound chip in there. So many of those cheap SIS chipset boards had terrible generic AC97 audio codecs that were terrible for DOS, and sounded like garbage! I know first hand because my first big upgrade was a SIS chipset slot 1 board, and it had such bad sound that I had to put my old ISA sound card back in.
But ESS made fairly good sounding audio chipsets, and it wouldn't have the same DOS compatibility issues of separate PCI cards because it would have access to all the IRQ and DMA signals on the ISA bus. So yeah, definitely no need for any Sound Blaster upgrades unless it's missing an MPU-401 compatible joystick/MIDI port. Or you want that real Yamaha OPL sound.
Agreed ... think I'll keep the sound as-is for now ... focus now is on finding some decent PCI video cards
With a Pentium 3 550mhz, the SiS 620 works slightly better than the SiS 530 ( it's twin brother)
collaboration with "Retro Hardware" maybe?
Dang that 3D mark performance sucks haha. I literally made a 3D PowerPoint game that ran faster than that XD. Love this old hardware.
I have a Pentium 3 for this kind of stuff with a voodoo 3 card.
You must be a Walloon. You speak with a French accent although it's hardly noticeable, so you're English is really good. However, most of the software you show is Dutch-language, so you have to be from Belgium ;) Question: can you read/understand Dutch?
Great investigative journalism. I am from Belgium, and speak Dutch not French :)
@@RetroSpector78 Opvallend, want je Engelse accent klinkt in mijn oren veel meer Frans dan Nederlands. Je bent trouwens één van m'n favoriete kanalen op RUclips man, ga zo door. Groeten uit Holland.
yeah i dont have many pci cards at all, a few voodoo cards, 2 s3 cards, one dead matrox and one working matrox card. not that i care too much about them, but it would be nice to test one of the tseng cards, or the powervr.
Quake in software mode it's using the cpu not the 3d video card
What that other guy said: Go with one of those No name PCI FX5500 cards that are all over ebay. Supports driver version 45.23 and because its DX9 compatible you can use nglide in windows 98.
@Dalle Smalhals nah, I bet it'll work. That SiS chipset has an internal AGP bus that the IGP is attached to, so all of those AGP instructions that the PCI FX5500 uses are still there. That Mobo, since it supports the 100 mhz FSB and low voltages is practically a Super Socket 7 board: Retrospector ought to check and see if it supports the K6-3. If it does, it probably supports the K6-3+ and K6-2+, which would turn that thing into a bitchin' multipurpose retro rig (software controllable multiplier FTW)!
@Dalle Smalhals Ok, looked it up. That's a Intel i430 based board that is PCI only natively. Makes sense that those weird Chinese "FX5500s" that need AGP protocols didn't work. That SiS chipset has an internal AGP bus so those cards will likely work. I recently bought one for a mixed use XP/Me build that's based on a Dell 8400 desktop, it'll be interesting to see if it works on the i925 chipset (has PCIe) if not, no big deal, I'm only out 25 bucks!
@@ironhead2008 again with the misinformation about geforce fx...
The Geforce fx NV graphics chipset can run on non agp based motherboard chipset because the NV gfx family is an native PCI & AGP compliant gfx chip (please read the datasheet on these graphics chipset from nvidia). This rumor keeps spreading everywhere cause of that misinformed forum post about why their geforce fx can't run their ancient dinosaur computer. Their actual reasoning why it didn't work is because their graphics card was not compatible with the old PCI protocol that is a slot for only 5 volt addin cards. I believe nvidia made some fx graphics cards that connect to a pci slot keyed for universal voltage slot. eg 3.3v & 5v pci
Btw i have no idea where you came up "that need AGP protocols" cause all pci graphics cards can work on any mainboard with pci slots provided that they don't use some proprietary bus bridge chip or the motherboard doesn't have an integrated graphics solution that can't be disabled or enumerated.
Oh btw i have a geforce fx 5500 connected to my main socket 8 pentium pro machine running just fine with windows 2000. further disproving the agp requirement cause my computer lacks any native agp bus.
I wouldn't say a k6-2 is a good cpu for a retro gaming pc. K6 architecture was notoriously bad for gaming. A Pentium 3 (or even 2) is a much better choice.
I remember how disappointed my friend was when he got his new k6-2 and it was slower at gaming than my Celeron-a even though his had a better video card..
I think the K6-II+/III(+) are the best Socket 7 Chips ever released. They have 128 or even 256KB L2 cache installed onto the cpu, so they perform like a Pentium II
@@Tom2404 trash fpu though. They tried to make up for it with 3dnow but most games of the era either didn't support it or poorly supported it.
@@mortrek yes, but as always it depends on the games. I think I have seen Benchmarks where the K6-III+@550MHz is at least as fast as a 300MHz PII, if not faster depending on optimization and drivers. 3DFX had pretty optimized drivers for the K6 as far as I know. Also we don't really know how much of a bottleneck the older Socket 7 is compared to Slot1. I mean they increased the busspeed by up to 50%, but it still remains a layout based off the first old Pentium chips.
The K6-2 did have a poorer FPU than the Celeron however the Integer logic was superior and even a match for the expensive Pentium II .
So for Office work or many other applications the K6-2 was superior to the Celeron.
The K6-2 with 3DNow even had some optimized games for it like Quake II and could be a match in that situation to the Pentium II or Celeron . There weren't that many 3DNow optimized games however but Quake II shined with the K6-2 processor especially with a 3DFX graphics card.
The CPU's that had poor performance at that time were ones by Cyrix.
I used a Voodoo2 card with K6-2 systems back in the day. Played most of the games of the day just fine including Quake/II, Unreal, NFSIISE/III, Half Life, etc, etc. Now would a PIII have still better frame rates with the Voodoo2 in some cases? I am sure it did but i never noticed any seriously low frame rates in the games I played around 98/99/2000.
Just get early 2000s Quadro card PCI card, depending on the model it could be anywhere between GeForce3 to GeForce5 range, and they cost next to nothing.
No, i do not would use a 3DFX Card alone with a 2D Card, A Riva TNT Would be Nice (PCI Version) and as adicional 3DFX Card.
Is there a PCI Rive TNT?
Was the cathode tube in that monitor failing?
Because of the flickering ? In an LCD ? :)
I would have used hiyren boot disc and bellark advisor to get the system information and also to get past the password
i miss windows xp :(
0:55 - To be fair, that hint wasn't very helpful. 😂 Maybe it's his girlfriend's name? 🤔 Regardless, there are (relatively) easy ways to bypass the Windows login credentials or even hack the SAM file to extract the password, but not from within Windows itself; you need to download the cracking tools and log into safe mode (or put the hard-drive in a separate system).
Well, with the admin you can still just assume credentials of all the files within another account in windows xp, viewing it as a total desktop isn't always necessary. Especially if you don't plan on keeping files. Now I like to respect privacy. I have had to do this before when fixing peoples computers and a virus or whatever locked them out of their account or just needed files off to replace a dying hard disk that still could spin up with an external disk. However those tools, which can be found in something simple such as hirens boot disk make that all relatively easy and simple.
Please don't leave this series at the cliffhanger as some of your previous ones :)
I know I know .... need to take some time off work and finish some of those :)
i have a program called passcape i can get through anyone password in minutes i even used it on a windows 2000 machine i bought on ebay this hard drive even had the build a bear program on it it was fun looking at it
nem lembro mais como formatar com o windows 98
That voodoo porn! you bloody showoff! :P
Make it dual boot. Keep XP. There are Windows Password clearing boot CDs. I've used it on XP and Windows 7.
TNT cards can be had for under $20 with shipping.
PCI ones ?
@@RetroSpector78 honestly, I dont know right now. I've seen them in the past. I was looking for an AGP one a few months ago and almost bought PCI. But looking right now I dont see any on ebay.
the pci graphics card i had was sis6326
My condolences :)