German Sniper Rifles of WWII - Don't get Scammed!
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- You want to get that WWII German Sniper Rifle, all looks good, but is it too good to be true? Don't get Scammed, watch this video first!
Matt's Website: www.wwiigerman...
K98k Forum: www.k98kforum.com
I’m loving this channel. The subject and presentation is fantastic.
Keep them coming cuz I can’t get enough!!
The K98k forum is the best place. Back long ago, wanted a German scoped military sniper.... got Swedish M41b, even back then it was a minefield.
A lot of pretend 'know-it-alls" on that site who are too eager to crap on anything that isn't 100% what they read in a book that does not have all the info to begin with.
I want to say it was Carl Reiner {may have been Mel Brooks} told this story:
They had been sent to recon a train station. It was empty. It was in the middle of nowhere and all the Germans had done was load up and haul ass.
In their haste they left some things.
These included a crate of scoped sniper rifles.
They were ordered to check the location and report. They were ,then, told to await further orders.
They got bored.
There were big glass balls on the power poles (insulators) and they started seeing who could hit hit them.
After they'd busted about ten of them
Command comes over the radio and they are frantic. They are ordered to pull back. When they returned they were informed
Apparently: " We think the enemy is about to counter attack."
How can you be sure?
"Our communications were cut."
The comms guys were using telephone poles and the existing lines.
Those weren't power lines they had shot out.
Well said! Finding authentic (not faked) K98ks is hard enough. Stepping up to snipers or SS variants is a whole different ballgame that requires even more scrutiny. To be honest, I ever came across one, I would pass on it, just because I wouldn't have the base knowledge of what to look for. Also, I try not to spend more than $1k on any milsurp!
Yes!! Brother, you have me addicted to you’re new channel!! Love it! I love the history/education part followed by the shooting! With other vintage/historic channels only give you one or the other! You have a good formula going here! At least in my humble opinion.
I don't have a k98 sniper but I do have a 1943 S&S Kar98k. I love those old rifles. The action of the mauser is legendary.
The k-98 with the zf-39 just has personality. If you were axis, it might read like “you’re never going back to Ala-BAM!”
If you were Allies, you might not find its personality as charming.
I meet Matt at the SAR show and he is just so knowledgeable and always willing to answer questions!
And all of them learned from the Boers during the Anglo-Boer wars.
who else is taking notes man the knowledge dump is awesome. keep up the good work.
Good to see a forum man actually in a video about k98ks. Good stuff!
Cost and value of genuine WW2 sniper rifles has gone through the roof especially here in Europe. I've built three tribute rifles using similar rifles but with modern accessories. No4(T) from a new AIA No4Mk4 in .308 fitted with a replica cheek rest and an S&B 6x42 hunting scope. Mauser K98 using a Spanish M43 from 1945 and a modern replica sight and mount and finally a Finnish Mosin using a reworked Finnish Mosin M91/30 from 1896/1944 but unused post-war using a modern replica scope and mount. Total expenditure including all kit is about €6K/$7K - the cost of just one original here in Malta.
I've also built an M14 DMR similar (but not the same as) as the M14-EBR using a LuxTecDef M1A fitted with a Lothar Walther match barrel and the correct S&B scope/mount/Harris bipod. All of these rifles are happy out to 600m and beyond and I don't feel guilty about shooting a valuable and collectable original.
Plus, and this is very important - I have four shooters for the price of one original!
Hals- und Beinbruch!! Ura! Perkelle! Oorah!
Carry on, chaps!
Thanks for the feedback Mick, it's awesome to hear what is going on in other places around the globe in regards to vintage rifles and etc.
What company makes your replica sights? Have you done any shooting with them? Do they hold zero well? There isn't too much info about most of the replicas unfortunately. I've got a spare post-war Czech mauser and I've always wanted to do a tribute rifle like that.
@@heissanenglishman7391 Accumount made those turrets. They are OK. You just can't take them on off frequently.
@@heissanenglishman7391 ZIB Militaria, Begadi and Starshooter. All 3 firms are in Germany
Hi Matt, nice to see you on a video! I am now convinced that ZF41s were not for K98ks. I mean "ZF41" were for K98ks, but those little scopes were originally not intended to go on bolt-action rifles. This was a result of the failure of the German self-loaders and the Maschinenkarabiner programme. There was no other rifle available at the time. This is a view from the scope side.
This channel is the best.
If you are going to shoot them you are better off buying one put together from parts or that have say a repro mount. All matching authentic German sniper rifles are ridiculously expensive and for good reason. I own an authentic German long side rail (thick receiver) to which I added the missing rail mount (repro) and an authentic BEK scope. Had it been all original it would have been huge $ unless I found a clueless seller and I'd never take the chance of shooting it. A word of caution on the 98k forum, there are a lot of so called experts on there who like to yell "fake" or "turd alert" whenever they see something that does not match 100% what is in the books or Matt's site (which is quite a good site btw). I acquired one such German coded scope that was repeatedly panned because it had some differences from what the "experts" believed it should have. "Oh the bell was taken from....it's a put together" Funny thing is while searching internet auction houses I found identical scopes in the same serial range, one being only 12 serial numbers higher, as well as one dug from a field somewhere in Europe, with scope's sale dates going back to the early 2000s. Remember Matt's fake money quote? Well that can result in false-positives too as there is no complete reference set to work from. It is good to be cautious when you see a deviation, but if the scope I had was a "put together" it was a German put together. It has since been sold to a collector in Austria who was already familiar with the late war variant I had. The idea that the Germans occasionally had to make substitutions, etc., over the production span of the scope clearly eluded the 98k forum experts who were just too eager to scream "fake" than to do some research. Some people on that forum clearly get off on doing that and when you ask them for specifics to back their condemnation you realize they are blowhards. Others are looking to make a score. While he and his friends attacked my scope, one member e-mailed me and offered to purchase it for a fraction of its value. I'm told another of the forum members convinced someone their rifle was phony and within hours of the rifle being returned to the nearby gun shop that was handling the sale of rifles from the estate the forum member showed up at the shop looking to buy it, boasting to the store owner that he knew it had been returned from the forum. The clerk who worked there told me the same story as the store's owner. I'm not saying not to ask people on the forum, I would listen to the 'experts,' but never stop there. Use what they said as the starting point for your research because some of them are full of it. German documentation is incomplete and the best way to learn is to study examples that have been sold previously over a span of years through different unrelated outlets comparing maker codes and serial numbers. It is good to be skeptical whenever you buy, especially when some clown tells you his grandfather took it off a dead German- 99.999% of the time its a crock. Also Matt makes the comment about no BYF Zf-41 rifles dated 1941. If I'm not mistaken Law not only states that ZF-41 rifles were created at the factories but also by conversion of existing rifles at the depots. Law shows both a WWI Gew converted to a 98k with a Zf-41 and a Standard Model Mauser also fitted for the ZF-41. Have these since been proclaimed "fakes" and by what experts? Senich also seems to indicate conversions from existing stocks of weapons, further noting the KKW .22 rifle was sometimes fitted for the ZF41. Perhaps they got it wrong?
This is awesome content, learned a lot.. please continue making these
Thank you for watching! Please help us and spread the word!
Most people don't know that the reason real German sniper rifles in America are like moon rocks. The few that survived the war were given to post war allied European countries. When better equipment became available the were sold off or destroyed. My Grandfather brought 2 of them back after WW2. He had command of a company during the initial occupation period. These rifles were well used but in excellent condition. My favorite is the G43. It shoots extremely well with my load I've developed for it. I did the nesissary gas piston and spring conversion so that it doesn't beat itself to death. There isn't a significant amount of peaning on the bolt carrier or receiver. The bore is mirror bright, the scope base is numbered to the rifle. I have a high turret K98k as well. I developed a load it likes as well. Being that he took them from a supply depo there's no doubt there real. These two rifles shoot as well as I can. They also give a modern hunting rifle a serious run for their money. I have a few repro K98k sniper rifles that I assembled myself. My ZF 41 is built on a 1944 BYF (Mauser) it's one of my favorite toys. It was designed and deployed as a DMR, but was pressed into sniper use because it was all that was available. Some of the more professional snipers did a lot of damage with them. I have one real and one Russian M91/30 that I put together. They are excellent shooters with a well developed load. I only shoot military ammunition through my repro rifles. I like the Romanian ammunition in both calibers. It's still available, but not as easy to find. Wolf and Red Army standard are good for playing with. Privi Partisan and S.B. ammunition are more accurate but more expensive. Winchester, Hornaday still load both. Expensive but the brass for reloading off sets the price. Yugoslavia put out some great ammunition, but a lot of it didn't get stored well. I get normally 3 to 5 duds in a 15 round box. The bullets and power can be salvaged, it's the dead primer that causes the dud. I got some Greek .303 & 8X57. Some of the best military ammunition in those calibers I've ever used. Vintage sniper matches are common these days. A clean tight rifle with good ammunition will serve you well if you do your part. As obsolete as they seem to be by today's standards I wouldn't care to be on the receiving end of them. WW1 & WW2 sniper rifles were hunting rifles not the fine tuned target rifles in common use today. Sniper tactics are very different today as well. Most combat occurs at 500 yards and closer for snipers of that Era. 98% of the combat I saw as a Marine scout sniper was the same. All of these weapons are very effective at these ranges. Myself and fellow shooters run these matches once a month in all types of weather to simulate combat conditions.
Great fun
It is true that most sniper kills was done within 300 meters in WWII. But one of the German snipers provided extremely good reasoning for it. As for every sniper, positive target identification is top priority. In typical sniper role, they couldn’t afford more than two shots on average from the same position without risking being detected and killed. So the shots selection was extremely careful and nobody wanted to “waste” a shot. With low power optics, positive ID was limited, especially when potential target wasn’t trying to get killed…so closer distances offered better target id opportunities and almost certain hits.
Similar feedback could be found in journals of legit Russian snipers (not the propaganda machine puppets). Usually more than two shots from the same position were seen as a death wish. Both sides has become really good at the counter sniping game as war progressed, so everyone was trying to make most of that shot. There was also one more interesting argument against longer shots. Few WWII snipers stated that confirming kill at the greater distance usually was impossible and it was not counted in the official books.
Certainly at the beginning of WW1 the Germans were way ahead of the allies in regards to sniping. However, I would argue that after 1915 the British had made a concerted effort to catch up and were beginning to take the sniping war to the Germans. By the end of the war it was the Germans who were on the back foot.
Great video brother, could you do one with the Mosin PU? or maybe just a shooting video with the Mosin PU. Thanks!
Yes! That’s going to be episode for sure
Actually if you want the clone one, better find mixmaster k98k with good bore (obviously need to be tested with iron sight first) or if you had money, put new lothar walther barrel.
Get the turret and long slide mount and put the appropiate scope.
The challenge is how to figure out the suitable load. Need trial and error still.
Being caught with ether the sniper award (patch) or the rifle itself was a death sentence. Most Wehrmacht Snipers dumped the weapons and the awards before surrendering. Eastern Front Wehrmacht snipers used captured soviet rifles many times. Mausers although incredibly accurate suffered from quality issues by early 1944 as the war came to a close. Nowadays most of the Mauser Snipers are faked milsurp builds. Much like how the Mosins got that treatment too. The limitation was always the scope, not the rifle. In the Bosnian War, Mausers mounted with Zrak M76B scopes where used extensively.
Digging the unm shirt, home state
Great content as always! I'd love to see more buyers guide type videos
Such a wholesome guy
Great video Rob!
Thank you Jerry!!!!!
On FB a friend of me from Germany ( whose grandfather served in ww1 as Jaeger and Sniper ) ,we were on same forum. One guy there posted that he had a very expensive k98 ww2 sniper he had bough in the cartridge they used exclusively then as he said. Cartridge was 9,3x62.
First i tested a bit and said thats wrong ,it never was so, response was the classic " have to hold up fasade "
Ehh big problem since they never used it,and as my friend wrote that directly as i had been generally about, that there were such done as all ammo had to be approved by RzM and WaA ,and strict demands they had also.
So he just said ,sorry but you been scammed and you should have known better ,
Guy either left forum or blocked a lot.
Now if you want another story, ask me about a young girl who found a picture of her grandfather in unknown unifom and they did not know about him,ever had served in any millitary force whatsoever .
Ha! Now you have to tell me that other story please!
Btw if you come across a ZG 47 in 8x64S ,get it . It almost became Czech sniper rifle post ww2 ,but Mosin action won out sadly.
Ok story .
A girl on a Fb forum had a post of her grandfathet or granducle in unknown uniform.
I had a look and thought oh,oh this will be a schock.
Picture shows a darkhaired young man in early 20s by a table. He has on his uniform,,EK2, EK1, markmanshipbadges and other decorations also. On one side of collar patch it was blank field, on his other it was rank of about senior Corporal or junior Sgt,
His uniform was grey, and on his left sleeve was a diamond shaped badge with 2 letters in them. " S.D".
At first i did not want to write, but a few others wrote wrong and made it not right.
Then she asked " what is S.D "
And then i was , " oh oh not knowing that ? I must just write it right,it will be tough on them ,but as a history buff and registred colector i have to"
" S.D was under the umbrella of RSHA, also could have been police, security services or more likely Gestapo".
2 or3 minutes later post gone.
The amount of fake PU snipers out there is scary.
That is true too!
Nice videos, really great work! Is there any chance that you gonna make video about jugoslav m48 scoped "sniper" rifles?
Petr, yes, I'm trying to convince my friend Andy to land me one, but he is resisting so far! Keep your fingers crossed!...😃
@@VintageRiflesShootersClub Thank you for reply, it would be awesome, I have one with zrak 8x42 scope and it is a really nice shooter. Should be original, spoke to guy who lived there during conflict and lots of those variations was made unofficially there, but i could not find any other information. Thanks again and keep up!
Good stuff
Create a good fake for shooting and you’ll learn what to look for
You did a video about German AP 7,92mm rounds and shot a body armor plate . I was wondering how much steel this old AP rounds penetrate , can you test this maybe ?
I have 15 rds left. I will do first Level IV testing and then if I will have some left, I will pair up multiple AR550 plates and we will see!
@@VintageRiflesShootersClub Nice👍
In addition to the two excellent K98 Mauser books by Karem/Steves there's also the book called "Sniper Variations of the German K98k Rifle" by Richard D. Law which I just got and has a lot of into on all the various rifles, scopes, etc.
That book contains outdated information and some examples of rifles that were determined as fakes. FYI
Yep...
If you go into it with the idea its fake unless proven otherwise you are in the right mindset.
I have a numbers matching K98, late war (November, 1944 production), I want to turn it into a designated marksman rifle with the ZF-41. Where I live, the farthest range only goes out to 125 yards, even hunting here is only going to get out to 100 yards with all the brush, trees, etc. I know I am probably going to end up with a repro scope, just trying to figure out which one. I would love an original K98, but the prices I see are bordering on the same I see on used cars.
If you bubba a numbers matching K98, you're bad and should feel bad.
DO NOT DO IT!! You have a matching gun that is worth tons. If you put a repro scope and mount on it you will basically turn it into a worthless (collectability) rifle
@@marholdt1731 I don't plan on drilling or tapping the gun, but if I put on a ZF41 mount, it's completely reversible. The field issue versions don't have any cut outs in the wood compared to the factory assembled guns with the ZF41 scopes.
I would highly recommend getting another K98 with a good bore to modify.
I've seen K98's at shows with new yugo barrels and Timney triggers that you could throw a ZF-41 on and it would be an awesome hunting setup that you wouldn't have to worry about....plus you would have *TWO* K98's 😉
Enjoy your video and would like to get a shirt but don't see the link to the shirts.
Thank you for watching! Here is the link shop.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/Vintage-Rifles-Shooters-Club-T-Shirt-VRSC-T-Shirt.htm
Are there any good clones for reasonable prices? I dont care about authenticity and im not keen on blowing several grand, i just want a k98
I’m not aware of nice modern clones like you have for example for US made rifles .
When does the M69 video come out? Did you see one without the scope and mount sold for 1900?
Yes, I have also seen scope and mount listed for $1850 (opening bid). I think we will see last few "naked" M69 and that's it...
@@VintageRiflesShootersClub From my talks with them 2/3 of them are going to be naked.
Does any scope mount hold zero when dismounted?
Yes! Long side rail and turrets one will hold zero for sure. I'm not sure about short side rail because I didn't have a chance to test it out...
@@VintageRiflesShootersClub ok, thanks for the answer and keep doing these nice videos please!!
As good as a K98 Rifle is and is considered to have the stronger action over the British 303 Rifle there is no history of any Lee Enfield failures because of its weaker action I I would still prefer the British 303 No 4 MK 2 sniper Rifle over the K98
The German optics were great
So my 1941 is good, with Norwegian barrel(3006) ? :)
Sported with new trigger system and safety..moore precise than ever. Hunting rifle now, my best ever! :)
Unfortunately what attracted people to C&R, as a whole, is dead. Prices are out of reach for new shooters and collectors. Younger people will buy them from our Estates but at much higher prices.
Man, miracles are still there to hunt. I just seen auction on Tuesday and numerous sniper rifles sold at the astonishing low price…yes, exception of the rule but it happens!
@@VintageRiflesShootersClub I picked up a pristine Mosin 59/91 from an Estate sale pre Covid for $200. A coworker of mine got a spotless and un-F'd with '03 from another Estate for.........$150 a couple months ago 🤦♂️
See! Ha! But yes, those are exceptions to the rule. Now, I honestly think that part of the problem is we are living in this “Internet world “. When pawn shop owner gets rifle from someone, he just goes straight to the gunbrooker and checks prices for it and that’s the price he has in his store…and of course they always select higher ones, right? Lol
What is a good way to found estate auctions
@@chadhill8628 check your local newspaper listings
Thank you for watching and please subscribe!!!
This is part 1 - I hope to keep making separate episodes as time goes which will cover in detail each main model.
Matt's Website: www.wwiigermansniper.com/
K98k Forum: www.k98kforum.com
Vintage Rifles Shooters Club T-Shirts: www.shop.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/Vintage-Rifles-Shooters-Club-T-Shirt-VRSC-T-Shirt.htm