To add further comment on the original Lima Class 55 that as we all know were available from the mid 70s as Green D9003 and blue 9006. As I understand it Lima were going to release it as an HO model the same as they did with their Class 33. At the eleventh hour this was changed and the model was launched in OO scale but the bogies were never scaled up and remained HO. Later Lima did a Class 50 and this had the same underscale bogies. By the time the Lima Class 37 was released the bogie had been rectified. For those that don't know Classes 55 50 and 37 all share the same bogie design as they are all English Electric locos. Interestingly the Lima class 55 was too short by a scale 2 ft 6 inches and the real prototype Deltic was 2 feet shorter than a production Class 55 so was actually a good candidate for the conversion. You could go for the Kitmaster which included a new bodyshell and bogie sides or you could buy a detailing kit which was used in conjunction with the Lima shell You junior modellers don't know you are born with all these lovely RTR models today!! Rick.
Hey Rick....fantastic information here....I knew about some of it but not all you say. I always say that I am so grateful when people go out of their way to add information to my channel which all other visitors can read & learn about! Thank you so much again. My kindest regards, John.
Thanks for the kind words John. I have been a diesel fan all my life and I think its the fine detail between the various Classes and of course the models which make it such an enjoyable hobby and interest. There is always something to learn,regards Rick
Thanks for the fabulous info here Rick & sorry for my reply delay. I knew pretty much most of what you say but not all. My visitors can all now be enlightened too. Seasons greetings & best regards, John.
michelle marshall Is the Bachman. Model still available. If so who do I contact I don’t live in UK and have never seen either model in my country. Any info would be helpful. Thanks
This is a model of the original EE Napier Deltic Class 55. The manufacturers envisaged foreign sales on this locomotive, so a centrally placed single head lamp (... much in keeping with Canadian and US locomotive stock) was designed into the nose fairing. In the end only a smaller number of 55's were made for the home market and thus, due to differing railway standards, the central headlamp would not be required for British Rail's use. On the early units, that headlamp port remained blank, so the Bachmann is certainly more faithful as a scale model of the iconic diesel loco. On later Deltics, the 'bonnet' was changed and the 'headlamp fairing' was replaced with a singular, less obvious light port. . Interesting upload. Thanks and thumbs up.
Fantastic video, glad my suggestion to do this came through. I actually expected there to be less marked difference, in that Bachmann would just have a few better grills and decal details, but how wrong I was.
Hello John Having just purchased a DP1 model, I have been looking at reviews that people have made and posted on the internet. Yours was one I came across. This is the first time I have left a comment on a review of a model locomotive and following comments are meant to help you with further reviews and so should be seen as constructive criticism. You obviously want to help followers of your channel decide whether they should consider buying a model by pointing out the differences between the older model and Bachmann's more recent offering, however you need to be aware that some of your audience will be quite knowledgeable whilst others will know very little. Those who are knowledgeable can ignore any inaccuracies they notice, whilst those knowing very little might take such information as 'gospel'. As such your reviews should be both accurate and factual. Anyway, to my observations ... I found the comparison in the weights of the locomotives very useful - just the sort of information that the usual manufacturer's specifications leave out. You mention the size of the cab door window is different between the models but say you don't know which is more correct. You make an assumption that the Bachamnn model is probably more accurate (it is). You mention the tanks (for diesel fuel and water) and again make the assumption that the Bachmann model will be more correct (it is). You mention 'badges' or 'notices' on the Bachmann model in addition to some steps which are missing on the Lima model. These 'badges' or 'notices' are in fact fold-down steps which give access to the roof of the locomotive (above the steam-heating boiler). Again, with the lining and lettering colour being white on the Lima model and Yellow(er) on the Bachmann, you assume that Bachmann's attention to detail means that the colour on the Bachmann model is more correct (it is). You mention the very obvious difference between the bogie detail and again presume that the Bachmann offering is more accurate (it is), however it is not faultless. Moving to the roof you draw comparisons between the size and colour of the air horns. Pictures that I have managed to find on the web suggest that the 'Lima' model has the correct colour whilst the Bachmann horns are more accurate in terms of size. The 'holes' in the roof are vents for the steam heating boiler and exhaust ports for the engines. The last part of the video is very good and informative - drawing comparisons between the Lima chassis with only two of the six axles driven by the pancake motor and the Bachmann chassis with a central motor driving all three axles on both bogies via cardan shafts. The fact that one bogie (the powered bogie) has traction tyres means that the Lima offering only picks up from three wheels on one side of the loco for this bogie and uses the other bogie to pick up from the other rail. Finally, the 'headlight'. English Electric hoped to export this locomotive to North America and North American locomotives of this type had a centrally-placed, oscillating 'Mars Light'. This was never fitted to DP1 and, indeed, no light was fitted to this location - hence the blanking plate inside the chromed surround. I found it pretty easy to check the parts of the video where you draw a comparison and then assume that the Bachmann model is more accurate. It would seem to me that a few minutes spent researching the model that you are reviewing would mean that you could speak with more authority as to the accuracy of a model. As I said at the start, this comment is meant to help you when undertaking further reviews. I appreciate the time and effort you put into making the videos but a few minutes research before undertaking a review would mean the resulting product to be that much more valid and useful. I hope this helps. Bernard
Both lovely machines , I have the NRM one which I would recommend for anyone to own in their stable . Truly a thing of beauty The Bachmann version was actually tooled from studies and measuring the real thing at NRM Shildon . Using lasers and hi tech equipment, it was possible to get every detail sourced correctly. The real DP1 was nick named “ the ice cream cart “ due to its striking colour which is French blue and a vanilla shade almost from the speed whiskers and details , best wishes to you buddy. Richard
Great video there John. In my opinion the Bachmann range of trains are nicely made on the whole. I hope that Bachmann will consider making a Class 319 EMU in the old BR NSE livery as they were common on the Bedford to Brighton Thameslink services in the late 1980's and 1990's before BR was privatised. Keep up the great work with the videos mate. Ash.
Anytime buddy. I have just had an epic week on the trains with my East Midlands 7 Day Rover. I am still uploading my videos but I managed to just finished uploading my photos of my trips to various places to my Flickr account. Once I have done my videos, it will be time to save some money for that new Hornby Virgin Trains East Coast HST that I am after as it is such a nice livery. Its a shame that Virgin Trains didn't do an odd service to Nottingham from Kings Cross as one of their HST's would look great at that former LMS station. But you do get the East Midlands Trains HST's there with the VP185 units which do sound nice I must admit. I will be doing more reviews again from October this year :). All the best buddy. Ash.
Dear Ash...once again a nice & informative comment. Please do let me know when you have done the new reviews around October? Looking forward to seeing them. All the best, John.
The striping is a Cream colour on the original. Also a normal Deltic has the extra leaf suspension on the bottom of the, differing from the Prototype. Crediting other commentators, this a Lima motorisation of a glue together kit! It will Lima chassis and motor and underframe detail.
Great! now I'm gny hav to buy a model of prototype Deltic...great!! lol. lovely 2 vids on the deltic John.This is my account rather than the girlfriends one I seem to use for comments lol.Best wishes Angus
I saw the prototype many times during the middle 50s. By the way, the headlight on the prototype was a dummy, just put on for show because they intended to sell them to North America, where it would be required. When the original Lima green model became available in the 70s I converted it into the protptype, and it was running on my layout until the Bachmann model came out. I think I originally paid eight quid for the Lima model new. That shows how much model railway prices have risen over the last forty years.
cool nice comparison...both are very nice model's. .. One thing I canot understand is why do manufacturers make spring loaded buffers and cab doors...as the locos are not toys and these features never get used on a layout when in use....
Sprung buffers become important if you're going to operate with proper 3-link/screw couplings, or some of the DIY auto-couplings like Sprat and Winkle.
Gud to c them side by side like that! Bachmann obv hav the upper hand there :) wot a cracking model it is! They r right with the striping, it is a light yellow! Saw it in slight action last year at Ribble Valley! Cheers
Nicely detailed comparison. So what if the Espee had purchased a few units to try them in passenger service? The Espee was notorious for having a little bit of everything. Imagine the Deltics painted in the Bloody Nose scheme. Interesting!
The central porthole in the centre on the nose didn't have a light in there but there was a porthole put in for a light as they hope to sell the deltics on the European market and would allow for the euro style centre headlight to be fitted for European running in the end they only made 22 for the br fleet which is a shame as the deltics were fantastic locomotives I hope that was some help and knowledge about that ps keep up the great vids
John, these two models are from different eras of model production. Yes absolutely the Bachmann is a better, more accurate model but trying to compare them is like trying to compare a 1960's built Mini car to a 2016 built Mini car. They can't match. Any way, another good well presented video from you. Thank you, David.
Hi David & yes you are correct in your comments however, when I was first asked to do this comparison of which I thought would make a nice video....it wasn't about the difference between the two locos as much as it is about how the detailing has changed so much over the years! Thanks for everything, best, John.
@@chambs123 Speaking frankly, the more detailed models were produced when production shifted to China. Oh Japan produced excellent brass locomotive models for a significant increased price, but cheap child Chinese labor mounting the detailed parts of course won the day. European and American produced models were mostly molded, with few if any hand applied parts. Even the building kits were produced as model kits, you had to glue them together, not sold already built...
interesting video John. It would be interesting to compare these two models with the Lima and Bachman version of the production class 55 delltics. I have a gut feeling that the Bachmann version of the prototype is based on the original Deltic loco, hence details like the porthole window on the cab doors. Where as I got a feeling that the Lima prototype model is a basic re-working of their class 55 model. I hope that makes sense. PS re the headlights. I read somewhere that the deltci prototype was fitted with a headlight mount, with the idea of selling them to Canada at some point in the future.This never happened and the lights were never fitted.
Thanks Jon & yes...I think you could be right about Lima re-working their class 55 model however....& although I didn't mention it in the video....it is actually a kit model that uses a Lima chassis & motor assembly so hell who knows? Thanks for the headlight info...this has since been confirmed but nevertheless....all info is appreciated. My best to you as always, John.
Great stuff. Personally I'd keep the Lima one as it is a nice comparison model and variation to have. But I can see why you are selling it John, as the Bachmann is a far superior model in all respects as you show. I was studying real images of the Diesel Prototype 1 (DP1) as you were reviewing and it is virtually spot on. Just so good. I couldn't fault it. The central rotating light was never fitted, so a blanked plate is correct. Great review. Thanks for doing this. Laurie.
I guess I am too cheap to buy more detailed model trains. Simply put, I can afford £50 much more than £150. In my retirement I find affording £50 for a locomotive difficult. There is nothing horribly wrong with the cheaper Lima locomotive, and when running on my small table layout she will shine... It is the same with the new Hornby King class locomotives recently released, my old Horny Railroad Model Castle locomotive shines running on my small layout. I bought the whole train set she came in for less than the more detailed King class locomotive. And yes, my layout uses all of the track of that train set too.
Calvertfilm There is no doubt I prefer the more detailed model, but, but, price has a value all its own. Besides the Hornby Railroad models and Lima products aren't ugly models. I also prefer having a very nice Railroad Model Castle, a Railroad Model Pannier Tank, and a Railroad Model Pocket Rocket than having one premium model King... You know three locos is better than one loco.
Hi John, very nice comparison John. I bought one of the Deltics from the NRM after seeing your other video. I am pleased with it, but a little disappointed with the quality of the sounds and the cutbacks Bachmann made. All my other Bachmanns have a driver and cab lights, this Deltic does not. The sounds were very poor, as was the speaker, after changing the speaker it was much better and Hattons are re-blowing the chip for £5. In general I am pleased, just a little disappointed with the corners the cut. I did some research on the top headlight, apparently it was never used or installed on the actual locomotive...Simon
OK Simon thanks for the very interesting & detailed comment. Sorry to hear you are a little disappointed in the Bachmann NRM model but to be fair, mine doesn't have the sound so I wouldn't have know about that issue. Anyway, glad you got it all sorted in the end. The headlight issue has also been covered now so thanks for that info too. My very best to you, John.
The headlamp was included back in 1955 when the loco was built as English Electric had hoped of export to places such as the US and Canada where the large headlamps were used. Interestingly BR did trials using D9000,the first production Class 55 'Deltic' in 1961. A flashing lamp with 6 million candlepower was installed and tested for a few months but came to nothing,instead BR adopted the yellow warning panels painted on the ends of all locos and Multiple Units. Rick.
Here you go again Rick....fabulous information. As it happens I did know the story about the proposed headlight but hey.....all my visitors can learn about it now too! All the best mate, John.
+Johns Amazing Trains - chambs123 that's OK also can you please let me know when you get some more of the triangle wheals that a filed down please and also how much so they cost. chears
Nice review John...........me, being a big fan of the U.S. styled diesels...........this is the nearest that the Brits got to that look. I have never been a fan of buffers on any rolling stock and they look alien on this loco in conjunction with the headlight. The later Deltics without headlights look more in keeping with UK stock. I recall they made a helluva noise when they pulled into the station..... All the best Brian.............btw did you get my emails concerning the Budd dummy?
Thanks for the comment Brian....it's content is duly noted, understood & agreed. I did get your mails thank you & will respond as soon as I can. My best as always, John.
When English Electric developed DP1 or Deltic they had hopes for export orders so they gave it the continental look inspired by US designes. Yes they had a very unique sound as they were powered by two Napier 'Deltic' 18 cylinder 2 stroke engines. High revving with amazing smoke effects they could be heard for miles around, a loud 'Hum' with a deep base note and a beautiful tunefull exhaust note. British engineering at its very best,amazing locos,still deeply missed by older enthusiasts who remember them in service in the 60/70s, yes and very noisy. Rick M
I'm certain Lima never made a DP1 Deltic, it'll be a Rosebud/Kitmaster kit, or possibly the Dapol kit, after they acquired the mouldings, on a Lima Chassis. The central main light certainly never worked, it was there for the export market, that never materialised.
Not convinced they were actual Lima models. Pat Hammond doesn't mention them in Ramsay's British Model Trains catalogue. Seems like quite an omission if they actually made one. There is a chance they were Craftsman conversions of the Lima Deltic, if not the Kitmaster/Dapol kit on a Lima chassis.
+Stephen Harrison they where because i had one of them and when i opens the models body all the parts said lima because we had to check if everything was there
If they were Craftsman conversions, the main part of the body would have been Lima, just the details and nose ends would have been changed. I've had another look and still can't find any Lima prototype Deltics other than kits or conversions. If you can I suggest you contact pat Hammond for the next edition of British Model trains due out in a couple of years.
+Stephen Harrison i think some where limited addition but if you cant find them they are a bit rare and we had some custom made for the DPS but you can find kit models. sorry
Thanks Ab....yes, they are but to be fair this comparison was more about how models have evolved rather than which would be the best. Thanks for the comment, best from me. John.
Hi Curtis....40 quid sounds about right but I will keep her a little longer as someone has asked to see them double-headed. I'll let her go after that. Best, John.
The Bachmann model is very accurate as the prototype was laser scanned at the NRM. Using all the modern manufacturing techniques a superb model was produced. The Lima model by comparison is a converted Lima class 55,a model that was very poor by todays standards and was full of inaccuracies. It was a scale 2ft 6 inches too short and ran on HO scale 3.5 mm /ft bogies instead of the correct 00 scale 4 mm/ft bogies. There were a couple of well known model shops in the 80s would do the conversions,as well as other British prototypes like DP2, Falcon, Lion and Kestrel. You could by the kits and do the conversions yourself if you were brave. All the above prototypes have now been produced RTR and are all superb,i have all of them including the fantastic LMS twins 10000/10001. Nice to see the Deltics side by side. British modellers were short changed for many years in my opinion with rubbish models and pancake motors,unlike US and German modellers that had high quality models. I think we have now caught up, Rick.
Again Rick...fabulous information here...you are a true star! I too have both 10,000 & 10,001...they are on the layout in the Diesel refueling shed ready to run at some point to! Thanks for your comments & support. My best to you, John.
If you go to the NRM you will see the real one and the bachman is identical. The headlight was fitted as they thought it would sell on the continent but there was no buyers.
I think the NRM have tarted the Deltic up a tad, footage of it in use show the speed wiskers etc were natural aluminum in colour no where near yellow but yes overall the Bachmann is far superior.
Lima never produced a Diesel Protoptype One,that is a Dapol/kitmaster/Lima comversion.Before coupling it to a shortened class 55 Deltic Chasis Please get your information correct before making o judgemental video.Direct comparisom not fair as 30+ years difference and laser scanning
Hello Sean. As it happens I was well aware that it was a kit model on a Lima chassis from the very day I bought it!! I chose not to bother stating that information in the video as I deemed it no big deal! As for the comparison video..it was just to show how much things have changed over the past 30 years or so....not to point out how much better one was than the other! If you want to comment on my videos then you are very welcome however....if you cannot comment in a more polite way then don't f*****g bother!! Cheers, John.
Interesting comparison. The Lima was quite a good model for its time. Not entirely fair to compare it to a modern Bachmann? Next video: compare the two locos for speed and hauling power and how steep a gradient it can cope with? Which loco will win that contest? Glass of Whiskey if it is the Lima!
Hi Fred....I have said in a previous comment that the comparison between the two was only to show how much detailing has improved over the years! I might do a strength test before I move the Lima on. All the best, John.
No you are not but your arrogant & impolite comment is enough to make anyone swear....even if it was only partially written! It is the first time EVER I have replied to someone in a harsh way but your arrogant comment really wound me up!! I am a good person, my channel is very well respected, I do many interesting & informative videos but I am not perfect!! I try my best. Sorry if I a fended but after a few whiskeys & seeing your comment I was fum-mid...especially as I always try my best in everything. Good night, John.
People are not always as Knolegable and look at RUclips video for accurate information. To assume that the whole train spotting world knows that you assumed the world understood your point of view is mistaken.i meant no offence,but people watch the video with no knowledge,so info included would be a positive idea for the future. Not trying to be rude,just helpful to those who don't know what is what
OK Sean, let's bring this one to an end now. I am sorry if I was a bit harsh but I had had a drink. I agree that not everybody would be aware of the origins of the 'Lima' kit version of the Deltic class 55 so let us please leave things at that. My best regards, John.
I do appreciate that this was 8 million years ago....but there is absolutely no comparison but thanks anyway. 🙏.....how the hell in 2023 can hornby actually compete with the likes of Bachmann,and accurscale???...no inner detail,no lights at all,...please don't say their locos are a "budget " loco...with the price they asking...
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Lima didn't make a Prototype Deltic it's a Dapol / kitmaster body on a Lima Chassis
To add further comment on the original Lima Class 55 that as we all know were available from the mid 70s as Green D9003 and blue 9006. As I understand it Lima were going to release it as an HO model the same as they did with their Class 33. At the eleventh hour this was changed and the model was launched in OO scale but the bogies were never scaled up and remained HO. Later Lima did a Class 50 and this had the same underscale bogies. By the time the Lima Class 37 was released the bogie had been rectified. For those that don't know Classes 55 50 and 37 all share the same bogie design as they are all English Electric locos. Interestingly the Lima class 55 was too short by a scale 2 ft 6 inches and the real prototype Deltic was 2 feet shorter than a production Class 55 so was actually a good candidate for the conversion. You could go for the Kitmaster which included a new bodyshell and bogie sides or you could buy a detailing kit which was used in conjunction with the Lima shell You junior modellers don't know you are born with all these lovely RTR models today!! Rick.
Hey Rick....fantastic information here....I knew about some of it but not all you say. I always say that I am so grateful when people go out of their way to add information to my channel which all other visitors can read & learn about! Thank you so much again. My kindest regards, John.
Thanks for the kind words John. I have been a diesel fan all my life and I think its the fine detail between the various Classes and of course the models which make it such an enjoyable hobby and interest. There is always something to learn,regards Rick
Thanks for the fabulous info here Rick & sorry for my reply delay. I knew pretty much most of what you say but not all. My visitors can all now be enlightened too. Seasons greetings & best regards, John.
michelle marshall Is the Bachman. Model still available. If so who do I contact I don’t live in UK and have never seen either model in my country. Any info would be helpful. Thanks
This is a model of the original EE Napier Deltic Class 55. The manufacturers envisaged foreign sales on this locomotive, so a centrally placed single head lamp (... much in keeping with Canadian and US locomotive stock) was designed into the nose fairing. In the end only a smaller number of 55's were made for the home market and thus, due to differing railway standards, the central headlamp would not be required for British Rail's use. On the early units, that headlamp port remained blank, so the Bachmann is certainly more faithful as a scale model of the iconic diesel loco. On later Deltics, the 'bonnet' was changed and the 'headlamp fairing' was replaced with a singular, less obvious light port.
.
Interesting upload. Thanks and thumbs up.
Great comparison John, although your screwdriver had me on the edge of my seat all the way through.
Ow wow really....I have never damaged anything using a screwdriver as a pointer EVER! Nice comment though. Best to you, John.
Very interesting comparison, that Bachmann one is excellent, especially those legible builder's plates and the plaque on each end.
Fantastic video, glad my suggestion to do this came through. I actually expected there to be less marked difference, in that Bachmann would just have a few better grills and decal details, but how wrong I was.
Yes Jerry & thanks for the idea.....worked out really well. All the best, John.
Hello John
Having just purchased a DP1 model, I have been looking at reviews that people have made and posted on the internet. Yours was one I came across.
This is the first time I have left a comment on a review of a model locomotive and following comments are meant to help you with further reviews and so should be seen as constructive criticism.
You obviously want to help followers of your channel decide whether they should consider buying a model by pointing out the differences between the older model and Bachmann's more recent offering, however you need to be aware that some of your audience will be quite knowledgeable whilst others will know very little. Those who are knowledgeable can ignore any inaccuracies they notice, whilst those knowing very little might take such information as 'gospel'. As such your reviews should be both accurate and factual.
Anyway, to my observations ...
I found the comparison in the weights of the locomotives very useful - just the sort of information that the usual manufacturer's specifications leave out.
You mention the size of the cab door window is different between the models but say you don't know which is more correct. You make an assumption that the Bachamnn model is probably more accurate (it is).
You mention the tanks (for diesel fuel and water) and again make the assumption that the Bachmann model will be more correct (it is).
You mention 'badges' or 'notices' on the Bachmann model in addition to some steps which are missing on the Lima model. These 'badges' or 'notices' are in fact fold-down steps which give access to the roof of the locomotive (above the steam-heating boiler).
Again, with the lining and lettering colour being white on the Lima model and Yellow(er) on the Bachmann, you assume that Bachmann's attention to detail means that the colour on the Bachmann model is more correct (it is).
You mention the very obvious difference between the bogie detail and again presume that the Bachmann offering is more accurate (it is), however it is not faultless.
Moving to the roof you draw comparisons between the size and colour of the air horns. Pictures that I have managed to find on the web suggest that the 'Lima' model has the correct colour whilst the Bachmann horns are more accurate in terms of size. The 'holes' in the roof are vents for the steam heating boiler and exhaust ports for the engines.
The last part of the video is very good and informative - drawing comparisons between the Lima chassis with only two of the six axles driven by the pancake motor and the Bachmann chassis with a central motor driving all three axles on both bogies via cardan shafts. The fact that one bogie (the powered bogie) has traction tyres means that the Lima offering only picks up from three wheels on one side of the loco for this bogie and uses the other bogie to pick up from the other rail.
Finally, the 'headlight'. English Electric hoped to export this locomotive to North America and North American locomotives of this type had a centrally-placed, oscillating 'Mars Light'. This was never fitted to DP1 and, indeed, no light was fitted to this location - hence the blanking plate inside the chromed surround.
I found it pretty easy to check the parts of the video where you draw a comparison and then assume that the Bachmann model is more accurate. It would seem to me that a few minutes spent researching the model that you are reviewing would mean that you could speak with more authority as to the accuracy of a model.
As I said at the start, this comment is meant to help you when undertaking further reviews. I appreciate the time and effort you put into making the videos but a few minutes research before undertaking a review would mean the resulting product to be that much more valid and useful.
I hope this helps.
Bernard
great review. john I enjoyed watching it. I love it
Thanks matey....comments always appreciated from your good self. Cheers, John.
Johns Amazing Trains - chambs123 no problem john
Both lovely machines , I have the NRM one which I would recommend for anyone to own in their stable . Truly a thing of beauty The Bachmann version was actually tooled from studies and measuring the real thing at NRM Shildon . Using lasers and hi tech equipment, it was possible to get every detail sourced correctly. The real DP1 was nick named “ the ice cream cart “ due to its striking colour which is French blue and a vanilla shade almost from the speed whiskers and details , best wishes to you buddy. Richard
nice job John. love class 55s deltics
Thanks Arnie....appreciated. Cheers, John.
Great video there John. In my opinion the Bachmann range of trains are nicely made on the whole. I hope that Bachmann will consider making a Class 319 EMU in the old BR NSE livery as they were common on the Bedford to Brighton Thameslink services in the late 1980's and 1990's before BR was privatised. Keep up the great work with the videos mate.
Ash.
Thanks again Ash for another wonderful comment. I agree with you on the class 319 so fingers crossed all the way mate! My best to you as always, John.
Anytime buddy. I have just had an epic week on the trains with my East Midlands 7 Day Rover. I am still uploading my videos but I managed to just finished uploading my photos of my trips to various places to my Flickr account. Once I have done my videos, it will be time to save some money for that new Hornby Virgin Trains East Coast HST that I am after as it is such a nice livery. Its a shame that Virgin Trains didn't do an odd service to Nottingham from Kings Cross as one of their HST's would look great at that former LMS station. But you do get the East Midlands Trains HST's there with the VP185 units which do sound nice I must admit. I will be doing more reviews again from October this year :).
All the best buddy.
Ash.
Dear Ash...once again a nice & informative comment. Please do let me know when you have done the new reviews around October? Looking forward to seeing them. All the best, John.
The striping is a Cream colour on the original. Also a normal Deltic has the extra leaf suspension on the bottom of the, differing from the Prototype. Crediting other commentators, this a Lima motorisation of a glue together kit! It will Lima chassis and motor and underframe detail.
Great! now I'm gny hav to buy a model of prototype Deltic...great!! lol. lovely 2 vids on the deltic John.This is my account rather than the girlfriends one I seem to use for comments lol.Best wishes Angus
I saw the prototype many times during the middle 50s. By the way, the headlight on the prototype was a dummy, just put on for show because they intended to sell them to North America, where it would be required.
When the original Lima green model became available in the 70s I converted it into the protptype, and it was running on my layout until the Bachmann model came out. I think I originally paid eight quid for the Lima model new. That shows how much model railway prices have risen over the last forty years.
cool nice comparison...both are very nice model's. ..
One thing I canot understand is why do manufacturers make spring loaded buffers and cab doors...as the locos are not toys and these features never get used on a layout when in use....
Thanks my friend & yes....I do take on board what you say about the doors & buffers. My very best as always, John.
Sprung buffers become important if you're going to operate with proper 3-link/screw couplings, or some of the DIY auto-couplings like Sprat and Winkle.
Gud to c them side by side like that! Bachmann obv hav the upper hand there :) wot a cracking model it is! They r right with the striping, it is a light yellow! Saw it in slight action last year at Ribble Valley! Cheers
Thanks Matt for the comment & confirmation about the light yellow linings. All the best, John.
Nicely detailed comparison. So what if the Espee had purchased a few units to try them in passenger service? The Espee was notorious for having a little bit of everything. Imagine the Deltics painted in the Bloody Nose scheme. Interesting!
The central porthole in the centre on the nose didn't have a light in there but there was a porthole put in for a light as they hope to sell the deltics on the European market and would allow for the euro style centre headlight to be fitted for European running in the end they only made 22 for the br fleet which is a shame as the deltics were fantastic locomotives I hope that was some help and knowledge about that ps keep up the great vids
John, these two models are from different eras of model production. Yes absolutely the Bachmann is a better, more accurate model but trying to compare them is like trying to compare a 1960's built Mini car to a 2016 built Mini car. They can't match. Any way, another good well presented video from you. Thank you, David.
Hi David & yes you are correct in your comments however, when I was first asked to do this comparison of which I thought would make a nice video....it wasn't about the difference between the two locos as much as it is about how the detailing has changed so much over the years! Thanks for everything, best, John.
@@chambs123 Speaking frankly, the more detailed models were produced when production shifted to China. Oh Japan produced excellent brass locomotive models for a significant increased price, but cheap child Chinese labor mounting the detailed parts of course won the day. European and American produced models were mostly molded, with few if any hand applied parts. Even the building kits were produced as model kits, you had to glue them together, not sold already built...
What you describe as small "notices" on the side of the Bachmann model and as "holes" on the Lima, are in fact footholds for climbing onto the roof.
interesting video John. It would be interesting to compare these two models with the Lima and Bachman version of the production class 55 delltics. I have a gut feeling that the Bachmann version of the prototype is based on the original Deltic loco, hence details like the porthole window on the cab doors. Where as I got a feeling that the Lima prototype model is a basic re-working of their class 55 model. I hope that makes sense.
PS re the headlights. I read somewhere that the deltci prototype was fitted with a headlight mount, with the idea of selling them to Canada at some point in the future.This never happened and the lights were never fitted.
Thanks Jon & yes...I think you could be right about Lima re-working their class 55 model however....& although I didn't mention it in the video....it is actually a kit model that uses a Lima chassis & motor assembly so hell who knows? Thanks for the headlight info...this has since been confirmed but nevertheless....all info is appreciated. My best to you as always, John.
I can remember the days when the terms "Bachmann" and "detail" were mutually exclusive.
Great stuff. Personally I'd keep the Lima one as it is a nice comparison model and variation to have. But I can see why you are selling it John, as the Bachmann is a far superior model in all respects as you show. I was studying real images of the Diesel Prototype 1 (DP1) as you were reviewing and it is virtually spot on. Just so good. I couldn't fault it. The central rotating light was never fitted, so a blanked plate is correct. Great review. Thanks for doing this. Laurie.
I guess I am too cheap to buy more detailed model trains. Simply put, I can afford £50 much more than £150. In my retirement I find affording £50 for a locomotive difficult. There is nothing horribly wrong with the cheaper Lima locomotive, and when running on my small table layout she will shine... It is the same with the new Hornby King class locomotives recently released, my old Horny Railroad Model Castle locomotive shines running on my small layout. I bought the whole train set she came in for less than the more detailed King class locomotive. And yes, my layout uses all of the track of that train set too.
That's fair enough. A lot of my fleet is Railroad. When running around they look just as good.
Calvertfilm There is no doubt I prefer the more detailed model, but, but, price has a value all its own. Besides the Hornby Railroad models and Lima products aren't ugly models. I also prefer having a very nice Railroad Model Castle, a Railroad Model Pannier Tank, and a Railroad Model Pocket Rocket than having one premium model King... You know three locos is better than one loco.
Thanks Laurie..the whole thing worked out really good on this so glad you enjoyed. Best, John.
Thanks buddy for a seriously well stated & agreed comment! All the best, John.
Hi John, very nice comparison John. I bought one of the Deltics from the NRM after seeing your other video. I am pleased with it, but a little disappointed with the quality of the sounds and the cutbacks Bachmann made. All my other Bachmanns have a driver and cab lights, this Deltic does not. The sounds were very poor, as was the speaker, after changing the speaker it was much better and Hattons are re-blowing the chip for £5. In general I am pleased, just a little disappointed with the corners the cut. I did some research on the top headlight, apparently it was never used or installed on the actual locomotive...Simon
OK Simon thanks for the very interesting & detailed comment. Sorry to hear you are a little disappointed in the Bachmann NRM model but to be fair, mine doesn't have the sound so I wouldn't have know about that issue. Anyway, glad you got it all sorted in the end. The headlight issue has also been covered now so thanks for that info too. My very best to you, John.
The headlamp was included back in 1955 when the loco was built as English Electric had hoped of export to places such as the US and Canada where the large headlamps were used. Interestingly BR did trials using D9000,the first production Class 55 'Deltic' in 1961. A flashing lamp with 6 million candlepower was installed and tested for a few months but came to nothing,instead BR adopted the yellow warning panels painted on the ends of all locos and Multiple Units. Rick.
Here you go again Rick....fabulous information. As it happens I did know the story about the proposed headlight but hey.....all my visitors can learn about it now too! All the best mate, John.
hi John. i am part of the deltic preservation society and the red thing is for the coupling in real life as the coupling system is not on the bogies
Thanks mate for that information update...very much appreciated, John.
+Johns Amazing Trains - chambs123 that's OK also can you please let me know when you get some more of the triangle wheals that a filed down please and also how much so they cost. chears
+faze dude i meant triang wheels
Yes mate I will do...should have some more in stock soon. Cheers, John.
Yeah....no worries. Best, John.
Nice review John...........me, being a big fan of the U.S. styled diesels...........this is the nearest that the Brits got to that look. I have never been a fan of buffers on any rolling stock and they look alien on this loco in conjunction with the headlight.
The later Deltics without headlights look more in keeping with UK stock. I recall they made a helluva noise when they pulled into the station.....
All the best Brian.............btw did you get my emails concerning the Budd dummy?
Thanks for the comment Brian....it's content is duly noted, understood & agreed. I did get your mails thank you & will respond as soon as I can. My best as always, John.
When English Electric developed DP1 or Deltic they had hopes for export orders so they gave it the continental look inspired by US designes. Yes they had a very unique sound as they were powered by two Napier 'Deltic' 18 cylinder 2 stroke engines. High revving with amazing smoke effects they could be heard for miles around, a loud 'Hum' with a deep base note and a beautiful tunefull exhaust note. British engineering at its very best,amazing locos,still deeply missed by older enthusiasts who remember them in service in the 60/70s, yes and very noisy. Rick M
OMG I LOVE THE NEW INTRO
same here...it's very slick
Yes very cool!
Thanks buddy, cheers, John.
Hey Jim thanks for this. Best, John.
Thanks mate...glad you like it. Cheers, John.
I'm certain Lima never made a DP1 Deltic, it'll be a Rosebud/Kitmaster kit, or possibly the Dapol kit, after they acquired the mouldings, on a Lima Chassis. The central main light certainly never worked, it was there for the export market, that never materialised.
they did cause i sold five on the DPS sale stand
Not convinced they were actual Lima models. Pat Hammond doesn't mention them in Ramsay's British Model Trains catalogue. Seems like quite an omission if they actually made one. There is a chance they were Craftsman conversions of the Lima Deltic, if not the Kitmaster/Dapol kit on a Lima chassis.
+Stephen Harrison they where because i had one of them and when i opens the models body all the parts said lima because we had to check if everything was there
If they were Craftsman conversions, the main part of the body would have been Lima, just the details and nose ends would have been changed. I've had another look and still can't find any Lima prototype Deltics other than kits or conversions. If you can I suggest you contact pat Hammond for the next edition of British Model trains due out in a couple of years.
+Stephen Harrison i think some where limited addition but if you cant find them they are a bit rare and we had some custom made for the DPS but you can find kit models. sorry
The red crescent on the front and rear is where the coupling hook would be fitted in real life
Hi john its curtis again so what do you say £40 for your lima deltic prototype shell make a deal on £40
Curtis....please wait a while as I need to run them double-headed before I let her go. All the best, John.
I think what you would have to do is to find the original locomotive and compare it to the model.
Can't beat Bachmann can you , John.
Thanks Ab....yes, they are but to be fair this comparison was more about how models have evolved rather than which would be the best. Thanks for the comment, best from me. John.
Hi john its curtis i would like to buy your lima deltic prototype of you how does £40 sond
Hi Curtis....40 quid sounds about right but I will keep her a little longer as someone has asked to see them double-headed. I'll let her go after that. Best, John.
The Bachmann model is very accurate as the prototype was laser scanned at the NRM. Using all the modern manufacturing techniques a superb model was produced. The Lima model by comparison is a converted Lima class 55,a model that was very poor by todays standards and was full of inaccuracies. It was a scale 2ft 6 inches too short and ran on HO scale 3.5 mm /ft bogies instead of the correct 00 scale 4 mm/ft bogies. There were a couple of well known model shops in the 80s would do the conversions,as well as other British prototypes like DP2, Falcon, Lion and Kestrel. You could by the kits and do the conversions yourself if you were brave. All the above prototypes have now been produced RTR and are all superb,i have all of them including the fantastic LMS twins 10000/10001. Nice to see the Deltics side by side. British modellers were short changed for many years in my opinion with rubbish models and pancake motors,unlike US and German modellers that had high quality models. I think we have now caught up, Rick.
Again Rick...fabulous information here...you are a true star! I too have both 10,000 & 10,001...they are on the layout in the Diesel refueling shed ready to run at some point to! Thanks for your comments & support. My best to you, John.
If you go to the NRM you will see the real one and the bachman is identical. The headlight was fitted as they thought it would sell on the continent but there was no buyers.
I think the NRM have tarted the Deltic up a tad, footage of it in use show the speed wiskers etc were natural aluminum in colour no where near yellow but yes overall the Bachmann is far superior.
is this for sale
The 4 silver things on the side are fold down steps on the real one.
Lima never produced a Diesel Protoptype One,that is a Dapol/kitmaster/Lima comversion.Before coupling it to
a shortened class 55 Deltic Chasis Please get your information correct before making o judgemental video.Direct comparisom not fair as 30+ years difference and laser scanning
Hello Sean. As it happens I was well aware that it was a kit model on a Lima chassis from the very day I bought it!! I chose not to bother stating that information in the video as I deemed it no big deal! As for the comparison video..it was just to show how much things have changed over the past 30 years or so....not to point out how much better one was than the other! If you want to comment on my videos then you are very welcome however....if you cannot comment in a more polite way then don't f*****g bother!! Cheers, John.
Johns Amazing Trains - chambs123 well said mate
DP1 Deltic never ran with the central head light, it was there for if they moved into the U.S. market in the future.
im not sure about that
+faze dude google British Railways DP1 if you want to check for your self. Wikipedia.
If they had gone to US they would have run Mars lights.
+Iainbotham im in the deltic preservation society and really it was just English electric copying the yanks
+faze dude also because im part of the Celtic preservation society i know more info about the prototype than wiki
Interesting comparison. The Lima was quite a good model for its time. Not entirely fair to compare it to a modern Bachmann? Next video: compare the two locos for speed and hauling power and how steep a gradient it can cope with? Which loco will win that contest? Glass of Whiskey if it is the Lima!
Hi Fred....I have said in a previous comment that the comparison between the two was only to show how much detailing has improved over the years! I might do a strength test before I move the Lima on. All the best, John.
The headlight on the top was never fitted it was included to appeal to the US market.
There was little chance it would have sold either way. EMD, GE and Alco had a iron grip on the diesel market in the US.
I wish you'd stop running the screwdriver all over the painted body work, my nerves are on edge incase you scratch the Bachmann!!!
I'm not the one swearing.
No you are not but your arrogant & impolite comment is enough to make anyone swear....even if it was only partially written! It is the first time EVER I have replied to someone in a harsh way but your arrogant comment really wound me up!! I am a good person, my channel is very well respected, I do many interesting & informative videos but I am not perfect!! I try my best. Sorry if I a fended but after a few whiskeys & seeing your comment I was fum-mid...especially as I always try my best in everything. Good night, John.
People are not always as Knolegable and look at RUclips video for accurate information. To assume that the whole train spotting world knows that you assumed the world understood your point of view is mistaken.i meant no offence,but people watch the video with no knowledge,so info included would be a positive idea for the future. Not trying to be rude,just helpful to those who don't know what is what
OK Sean, let's bring this one to an end now. I am sorry if I was a bit harsh but I had had a drink. I agree that not everybody would be aware of the origins of the 'Lima' kit version of the Deltic class 55 so let us please leave things at that. My best regards, John.
I do appreciate that this was 8 million years ago....but there is absolutely no comparison but thanks anyway. 🙏.....how the hell in 2023 can hornby actually compete with the likes of Bachmann,and accurscale???...no inner detail,no lights at all,...please don't say their locos are a "budget " loco...with the price they asking...