You and I got a lot of the same toys, for my Kreg foreman I built a pair of small saw horses to support the material that hangs off either side. Thanks for choosing to do what you do and for that we believe in you.
Jay, yes I broke 2 jumbo bits and they sent me new ones right out, no charge! Great customer service folks, I love their products. Yes, I do watch and use your techniques and have sent flat out donations to you. I like what you do , can and have taught me.
Thanks, Jay. You are always well-prepared and informative. Clearly you spend a lot of time on all aspects of your RUclips channels. I enjoy seeing your less serious side, whether via editing and/or comments in content.
In my opinion you are the definition of living the American Dream! Now I don't mean today's version of that but the time when you worked hard for what you wanted. Watching your videos one can see your hard work paying off in your attitude, hear it in your voice and see it in the evolution of your craft. One video you mentioned you were up early to get some work done before you went to work. Dedication! I don't know if you have or want to do a bio kind of video and tell us about your vision from day one but it would be pretty interesting I think. Keep up the good work
Just watched this old video of the pocket hole machine. you must be really hard on it lol, I've had one for years and have never broken a bit. one of the best tools in my shop.
Thanks for the overview. I'm glad you gave a nod to the Porter Cable pocket hole jig. I have never used a Kreg pocket hole jig. I opted to spend my money on the Porter Cable and wow is it a nice jig. The best thing about it is there is NO setup at all...none, what-so-ever, when you want to make pocket holes. The jig self-adjusts to material thickness and also then TELLS YOU what length of screw to use. I'm definitely a fan.
Nice review Jay. I've been using the Kreg K4 and the Kreg mini for the last 3 months. I really enjoy how easy it is to get up the learning curve with them. I've used the K4 to make drawers, and a couple of cabinets. My biggest cabinet as 48" x 64". It was a breeze with the K4 The cabinet turned out square and tight. I've used the Kreg mini to tighten up some loose kitchen drawers. So easy.
I am really enjoying the tool talk videos Jay. It's always interesting to hear what other people like and dislike about tools you might buy in the future.
I dont have any type of Pocket Hole system. I did just check out a video on that PC style. Ive never heard or seen it before. Looks pretty sweet. Great Tool Talk Mr Bates.
Great run down on pocket hole jigs. I have use the K4 and now own and use the K5. The K5 is a big improvement on the K4 just in location of the lock down clamp. But like you, there is no way I would do enough pocket holes to justify that kind of price. Another great tool talk in the books. Keep it up!
What I like about the video is items are very well explained. What I don't like about the video is instead of closeup of items being explained that whole corner of the shop is in frame.
I have all three if the jigs also. I', a little behind in the K-series. Mine is a K3, upgraded from the previous mode. Each has it's place and all work great. Good info once again. JimE.
When we have a new pocket hole machine, everything we make needs a pocket hole and when we have a new biscuit joiner everything we build needs a biscuit and when we have a new tenoning machine everything we build needs a tenon. It's funny how that happens.
+WoodRodent you're absolutely right, cause when you start woodworking projects, you spend 150 bucks, then 300$ to make some more strong structures with biscuits and then you finish with the Festool Domino to build everything. Because the Festool can do everything ! And at last you spent 450$ before the Festool. In fact you spent half the price of it !
+Jimmy Osinski Good grief!! This statement is just off on many levels. Grammar big time!! Work on it. I don't even know if your thought process made it to the top floor here.
I think I understand what you are saying Jimmy. Basically he is saying that the progression of woodworkers is to buy the next best thing. Eventually you'll end up buying the Festool anyway so why waste your money on all the other stuff.
Hi Jay, good review. I was once told that the Kreg Foreman was supposed to be permanently mounted and side stock supports installed to avoid the whole spiderman routine. Regards and keep up the good work.
Great Tool Talk Jay thanks, I have to say I am a Kreg fan, I brought mine to Colombia hidden in my case! There is a supplier in Colombia of basic stuff but it is very expensive, so I find myself buying ordinary washer head screws, and so far have had no problem. My K4 now has a few extra holes in it where I forgot to change the settings before using it...lol
our cabinet shop has been using the same kreg jig for face frames for 15 years that I know of ,it's been working here longer than I have ! ,and it works as good now as it ever did ,although it is all metal ,not plastic like the newer ones
I started with the R3 kit which seem to work well for the few projects I have done. Just recently picked up the HD version for some future outside projects. I'd like to get the K5 at some point, I'm not often in a hurry with projects so what I have now seems to work and do the job. Thanks for the info on these pocket hole jigs.
Hey, I am left handed. I lost the use of my right hand due to a (work)accident. I was a paramedic in the FireBrigade and got injured during a fight. This to explain. Almost everything is made for the right handed users. Even the place of pinmachines in the stores, sometimes I have to pin sidewards. Sinds my accident, I became Photografer. No cameras for the left, onehand users. Almost every tool (and I have a lot of them) is made for the righthanded user. I have to adjust my whole body to proper use them. I am not mad, only frustrated when somtimes things don't go easy. Thanks to think about the difficulties of these people. BTW, I love your work and video's. Willy from Belgium.
I broke a bit while using my K4 jig earlier this year. I contacted Kreg about it and they sent me a new one no questions asked. I believe that they stand behind their products, which is why I don't hesitate to buy that brand.
Great review, Jay. I have the Kreg Jr. and it does the job. Not as fast as the K4 or K5, but the job gets done. I haven't used it a ton, but I have no complaints about it. I just don't use pocket holes that much.
I have the Kreg DIY jig (it came with some other things). I have used it for a lot of different projects that were not cabinet work. It has held up very well and have had no problem with the bit breaking (yet).
I don't know if it has been said before, but I have the older model of the kreg foreman and it took care of almost everything that you complained about with this new cheaper model. All (mostly) metal construction. The drill motor is not mounted to the table plate so no wiggling when you lift the table top. The handle has no trigger or anything. The motor just activates when the handle starts moving and you can assemble the handle on either side of the arm. Never broken a bit in it in 4 years. I paid $800 or so for it and it would be one of the first things that I would replace if my shop burned to the ground.
Re: Kreg customer service. I have the Kreg miter fence on my table saw. A pin didn't fit right when I assembled the fence. Kreg sent me a full replacement for the fence. I'm very pleased with the way the fence works. Very accurate and easy to use.
I have the original Kreg which I purchased to help my son build a deck and railings for his first house it still works great. Though a couple of years ago I found and bought one from Harbor Freight and for the money it is a great investment as I use it to build toy boxes and bookcases that I do know, Try one you won't be disappointed.
I know this is an older video but I watched it yesterday and have a Kreg Jig Forman that I stopped using after breaking 3 bits on it during a single project. I stashed it away thinking I would look at it when I had more time and continued the project using other kreg pocket hole jigs I have. You mentioned that they sent you new bits so I contacted Kreg about it. They think there is something wrong with the bushing so they are sending me a new bushing and 3 new bits. I like a company that stands behind their products. While this is my only interaction with them it was a positive one. Hopefully the bushing will address the issue as I really like the speed and ease of the Forman.
Hey, Jay, great overview. A few comments... 1- I checked the Kreg website and looks like the handle on the foreman is still oriented the same way. Another idea would be for them to make it pivotable - then it could switch from right to left-handed with a twist 2- I have never broken a bit, but I have also never used a bit with a hex base (don't have the foreman) 3- I cannot emphasize enough the importance of dust collection on the K4 jig. My jig is even older (K3?) and I first had it for a few years without the dust shroud and the holes pack with sawdust after 2-3 holes, requiring me to stop and clear them. But with the dust shroud and a shop vac you can keep drilling with no sawdust clogs. highly highly recommend that dust shroud. ...art
Jay, great review. I can sure see in a production environment the large unit would be a real time saver. Another advantage I could see would be if you had to put pocket holes in the end of a really long piece of lumber. Thanks for the really good video. Paul / paulsmessyworkshop
Re the bit breaking issues I was told when buying the mini jig that I must always ensure that the battery drill was fully charged and running at its full speed before engaging the wood to create the pocket. Seems that if the tip is offered to the wood before its up to speed it is forced sideways and snaps it off. Thinking abut it you can see how that happens. With a rapid jig perhaps the trick is to not crash the lever down but to move the first part slowly to allow the motor to spin up before the tip engages the wood. Imagine that you are using a hand drill and allow the motor to spin up. I bet that is why so many bits are broken using a K5. Sweeping the engage lever down too fast at the start of the stroke.
Jay, with regards to having to use your left hand - Ron Paulk built some little box supports he puts out to either side, That may help you - The name of the video is "Building Cabinets" He does not show them in use but you get the idea. Hope that helpsGreat review videoScott
Just wanted to point out that I also have the Kreg K4... I often pull the drill guide off of the main unit to use it just the same as you would the Kreg Mini... clamp (or even temporarily screw the drill guide) to the work piece and drill the hole just like the Kreg Mini... so if you have the K4 or K5 system you have the same capability of the Kreg Mini in the removable/ adjustable drill guide.
I don't do a lot of pocket holes, so I wasn't wanting to drop $100 for Kreg. I ended up getting the unit from Harbor Freight. It's almost always on for $60ish and with a 20 or 25% coupon, it was just over $50, making it about half the cost of the Kreg. So far it seems good and it came with the drill bit and a handful of different size pocket hole screws. You can also take the drill guides off and use them individually like the Kreg mini.
I ordered my K4 yesterday (still waiting for it to come in), but I was really looking hard at the HF version. After reading all of the reviews online, even most the 5 star mentioned that you get a lot of tear out (blow out) on the wood because it does not press all the way against the piece you are drilling. Do you have this issue?
Michael Gillitzer YES... I thought maybe it was just a cheap bit, so I purchased the Kreg brand bit, but I still have the same issue. Now I kind of wish I had the kreg, but I don't do too many pocket holes so I just have to clean them up.
The other way I deal with the left hand side problem is I have built a table with an insert to keep the table consent and flat. When I remove the insert (which is sized to the foreman) I take out the insert and replace with the foreman and at point you can use either side of the panel left or right using your right hand which is super quick and love it. I realize you can't use this on a job site but you could design a platform to house and solve this issue.
I have a Porter cable pocket hole system and recently bought a K5 and I prefer my K5 by far. The Porter cable is bulky and I HATE the left adjustable hole. It can be a pain and the hole is difficult to get center and even like on my K5. I have had 2 other small Kreg pocket hole systems but the K5 is my first large one that I bolted to a sheet of wood. My other 2 were just the 2 hole systems that clamp to the wood. I may still use my Porter cable system in the future but for my cabinets my K5 is doing a much better and clean job.
Given the option, I would go for the K5. I have had both, the K5 has the lever on the working side of the jig so you do not have to reach across sheet goods to lock in place.
I get by fine with the Kreg Mini. It's a little bit fiddly to position (a super-simple placement jig helps with that), but you don't really need anything more unless you're in a production environment.
I thought about making a pocket hole station much like a miter saw station. With the Foreman dropped down and table wings to the left and right, you'd have the material support to eliminate the awkwardness of being a right-hand only machine.
I broke a bit on the normal/original Kreg Jig one time, I took it back to Lowes and they exchanged the whole kit. Have not had a problem since. The break was my fault, I had the drill in reverse and was trying to drill the hole... durrrr.
Drill bit needs to be run at full speed before the plunge cutting begins so you don't put excess pressure on the tip and you won't break anymore tips well they will last a lot longer Hope this helps Stephen
The Foreman machines break bits because like a drill press, you have a huge leverage advantage and end up putting considerably more pressure on the bit versus hand drilling. That's my theory, anyway. I've broken 3-4 bits with my Foreman and Kreg replaced them. Very nice of them considering the cost of the hex version. Edit: And for what it's worth, as much as I liked the Foreman when I got to use it, I have a K5 and it's really not much slower, and probably about as convenient. I prefer it with large panels, actually. The front handle is a super cool improvement over the K4.
Awesome overview Jay. I too have the K4 and I too made a jig, similar to yours but without the large base, mine was a piece of sheet good with laminated arms to it looks like a big T. Really wanted to hear your thoughts on the Foreman. Great video.
Thanks for the info Jay! I just won the foreman from an Instructables prize and wasn't sure I wanted to keep it. It was great to hear your thoughts on it pros & cons!
Hi Jay. You mentioned that you wanted to make a library of Tool Talk videos on this channel. I was wondering when you will be putting these into a playlist?
This series is great !! I would like to also see the "Hand Tools" you use(like a block plane) and why they are used over any powered tools that could do the job. Also do you use Set Up measuring blocks specialized digital tools or jigs? If so it would be great to learn about what you use, and why ??
Hey Jay, I contacted Kreg after I had what I would consider a lot of bits break. In my mind it seemed like maybe it was a bad batch of steel from the bits. After contacting them they sent me three new bits. I buy my stuff all at once so I had bought 3 bits from HD at the same time all three broke on the same spot as yours. Now almost 6 months later I have had one of those bits break which I am fine with. That one bit drilled about 3000 pocket holes so I feel that is a decent amount of wear and tear. Now thinking back I think it may have something to do with the drill speed. I used to use a big heavy duty hitatchi corded drill that spun at what felt like really really abnormally high speeds to me. Now I have switched to using a 20v drill that doesn't spin nearly as fast as the older drill. So that could have something to do with it as well. Also the K4 is a great tool but you will have to lubricate that clamp shaft from time to time or it will start to catch. Overall that jig is really priceless for quick assembly.
For some reason the Foreman seems to me like it would be a crazy amount of leverage. Do you find it difficult gauging pressure as you're using that one?
+Graidian Clark No. The pressure you need to push down is much less than the pressure you need to lift a drill in one of the other jigs. It's much easier to use and more ergonomically friendly in normal use.
Jay, You are definitely not the first person to break bits on the DB210 kreg machine. I purchased one about 2 months ago when my DB110 motor broke and I couldn't wait the several days for the new motor. I broke my first bit after 322 holes which was about 30 minutes into using it. I found that the reason this machine breaks bits the play in the clamping mechanism. Removing the black rubber cap helps but the machine has an engineering flaw that allows the material to slide to the right 1/16th of a inch which is enough to stress the tip of the bit and break it especially in hardwoods. It's really quite frustrating. As for your issue with the safety trigger, that's easily addressed. If you remove the screws on the back of the handle and separate the two pieces you will find a little spring behind the red thumb lock. Just remove this spring and reassemble. This eliminates the thumb lock which is unnecessary in my opinion as the DB110 does not have one. That said as someone who drills 25,000 or more pocket holes a year I can say with a lot of confidence the DB210 is junk compared to the DB110.
well, the kreg seem to be very popular despite a high price IMHO. I tried a kreg type system and what T'ed me off was when i used them to attach a table top down the screws did not pull the top down tight and left ripples in the top. Now to my error possibly , i did NOT clamp the top down prior to installing the screws. Anyway that's when I noticed the Whiteoak tools(from Detroit) Rout-a-pocket and like the system very well despite the little bit longer time to use it. It came with a jig to make your own plugs if so desired. well enough selling. What happened to those Lions with the Packers. If it weren't for bad luck, then no luck at all.
Hi Jay, I also have the Kreg Forman and have drilled 100's of pocket holes. I have NOT broken any of the drill bits, so I wonder if there is something wrong with your unit?
Great review. My only comment is do not drop the bit it is hardened steel and the point will snap off if it hits wrong so treat the bit carefully. I've never broken one in use just dropping a couple.
just found your site about 3 weeks ago, very informative and realistic projects. thanks for the review of the tools you use. what do your customers think of the pocket holes?
Could the bits be breaking on the Foreman because you're able to do them quickly, making the bit heat up to the point it loses its structural strength? Probably the bits need to be made with steel that can operate at higher temps.
You'd be right if the drills were made from old school high carbon steel. High speed steel commonly used in today's drill's is impossible to overheat even on a grinder if it's hand held while grinding it. High Speed Steel can go well into the red heat range before affecting it's temper or strength. If? and I'm not saying it is, but if the drills are cheaply made with poor quality steel or incorrect heat treatment then that would be a couple of possible reasons for them breaking.
have always enjoyed your straight forward videos...and in this video i noticed your selves where you stored the large jig....question...is that the same style shelves you had shown for over the garage door? seemed like garage door shelf was a frame of split2x4's
I have the same K4 pocket hole jig. Often it is quite difficult to drill the hole. I don't know if the bit is dull or what but I typically have to put my body weight on it to complete the hole. Do you have any idea as to why this may be? Do you have any suggestions for me? Thanks.
I'm getting ready to build my miter station. I purchased your plans and will be modeling your design. I'm in the market for the Kreg Jig but the Kreg Foreman is a bit pricy for me now. I would consider buying in if I were to build more "big" projects like the miter station, but as with yours, mine would probably be the biggest one I'll build. So my question is, would you get the Foreman over the K5 just to save time for this one big project, or get the K5 to save money since this would be the only one big project you would build? Thanks.
+Joey Medina For a one-time *huge* project, I'd recommend going with the K5. As Jay points out, the primary advantage of the Foreman is *speed*. You'd be spending about $230 less on the K5, and trading off a small amount of extra time in material prep. Another reason would be for the versatility the K5 offers. As noted above in the first comment, the drill guide can be used as a stand-alone for doing in-place repairs, working large panels (pantry size), and those occasions that Jay mentioned of realizing you need a pockethole *after* you've started assembly (not an uncommon circumstance in my experience ;)) Btw, I do free-lance custom cabinets and still find the K4 to be fine. I know I could save time with the Foreman, but just haven't been sufficiently motivated to spend the $$ :) Sidebar for K4 owners - check into upgrading your clamp to a Bessey auto-adjust clamp! PeachTree has a great kit to adapt the Bessey to the K4 base, and you will LOVE it! The best $35 (includes both clamp & adapter) you'll spend on upgrading a key tool in your arsenal
+Joey Medina I built an equivalent of Jay's mitre station and used the K5 for all the pocket holes. lh3.googleusercontent.com/vC-VnDOHWrkiwU84cMYuKoNN2KXg_Ts-xGRwq9QYHI4gfekl87xG=w1076-h798-no It went well, and I'm delighted with the end result, but my arm was aching at the end of the day when I drilled most of the holes. I would love to have used a Foreman on that build, but I don't do enough other pocket hole stuff to justify it and so for me the K5 was the better option.
pocket hole type wood working is what made your channel popular why are you going away from it. there are lots of channels using super expensive methods of woodworking your channel was the place to get projects done fast and cheap i always thought.
Regarding the right hand/left hand problem, how about locking the thumb safety button in place with a cable tie or similar? Naughty but I'm sure it wouldn't make it that dangerous.
+Jay Bates 2 I wonder if the bit takes a small amount of arc as it travels? It might be hard to detect without tooling but that could be the bit breakage culprit. Thanks for the review. I have the older aluminum k4 - my only complaint is the lack of dust collection. but like you, I don't do all that many pocket holes any more.
I have been reluctant to use pocket holes ever since I had a bad experience with long screws under heavy load pulling the head through the end grain. Not splitting, but actually pulling a screw head sized plug right out of the end of the stile. Quite unnerving I can assure you as this was Doug Fir utility shelving and I was frequently seated under the overhead shelves.
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You and I got a lot of the same toys, for my Kreg foreman I built a pair of small saw horses to support the material that hangs off either side. Thanks for choosing to do what you do and for that we believe in you.
Jay, yes I broke 2 jumbo bits and they sent me new ones right out, no charge! Great customer service folks, I love their products. Yes, I do watch and use your techniques and have sent flat out donations to you. I like what you do , can and have taught me.
Thanks, Jay. You are always well-prepared and informative. Clearly you spend a lot of time on all aspects of your RUclips channels. I enjoy seeing your less serious side, whether via editing and/or comments in content.
i just bought a k4 last night and will be here tommorrow. I cant wait till it gets here to try it out
In my opinion you are the definition of living the American Dream! Now I don't mean today's version of that but the time when you worked hard for what you wanted. Watching your videos one can see your hard work paying off in your attitude, hear it in your voice and see it in the evolution of your craft. One video you mentioned you were up early to get some work done before you went to work. Dedication! I don't know if you have or want to do a bio kind of video and tell us about your vision from day one but it would be pretty interesting I think. Keep up the good work
Just watched this old video of the pocket hole machine. you must be really hard on it lol, I've had one for years and have never broken a bit. one of the best tools in my shop.
Thanks for the overview. I'm glad you gave a nod to the Porter Cable pocket hole jig. I have never used a Kreg pocket hole jig. I opted to spend my money on the Porter Cable and wow is it a nice jig. The best thing about it is there is NO setup at all...none, what-so-ever, when you want to make pocket holes. The jig self-adjusts to material thickness and also then TELLS YOU what length of screw to use. I'm definitely a fan.
Nice review Jay. I've been using the Kreg K4 and the Kreg mini for the last 3 months. I really enjoy how easy it is to get up the learning curve with them. I've used the K4 to make drawers, and a couple of cabinets. My biggest cabinet as 48" x 64". It was a breeze with the K4 The cabinet turned out square and tight. I've used the Kreg mini to tighten up some loose kitchen drawers. So easy.
Thank you Jay for these wonderful Tool Talk videos! They are great!
I am really enjoying the tool talk videos Jay. It's always interesting to hear what other people like and dislike about tools you might buy in the future.
I dont have any type of Pocket Hole system. I did just check out a video on that PC style. Ive never heard or seen it before. Looks pretty sweet. Great Tool Talk Mr Bates.
Your videos are the best, I can't stop watching them!
Nice video. What a great shop you have. You must have so much fun making stuff in that shop.
Great run down on pocket hole jigs. I have use the K4 and now own and use the K5. The K5 is a big improvement on the K4 just in location of the lock down clamp. But like you, there is no way I would do enough pocket holes to justify that kind of price. Another great tool talk in the books. Keep it up!
What I like about the video is items are very well explained.
What I don't like about the video is instead of closeup of items being explained that whole corner of the shop is in frame.
I have all three if the jigs also. I', a little behind in the K-series. Mine is a K3, upgraded from the previous mode. Each has it's place and all work great.
Good info once again. JimE.
Thank you so much for this video. I picked up the Porter Cable Jig because of this video.
"It's a Jay thing" shirts coming soon? With a picture of a broken pocket hole bit.
When we have a new pocket hole machine, everything we make needs a pocket hole and when we have a new biscuit joiner everything we build needs a biscuit and when we have a new tenoning machine everything we build needs a tenon. It's funny how that happens.
+WoodRodent hahaha. Good observation. :)
+WoodRodent you're absolutely right, cause when you start woodworking projects, you spend 150 bucks, then 300$ to make some more strong structures with biscuits and then you finish with the Festool Domino to build everything. Because the Festool can do everything ! And at last you spent 450$ before the Festool. In fact you spent half the price of it !
+Jimmy Osinski Good grief!! This statement is just off on many levels. Grammar big time!! Work on it. I don't even know if your thought process made it to the top floor here.
+dutch971 i'm sorry i'm not english. i don't understand everything of your comment.
I think I understand what you are saying Jimmy. Basically he is saying that the progression of woodworkers is to buy the next best thing. Eventually you'll end up buying the Festool anyway so why waste your money on all the other stuff.
Hi Jay, good review. I was once told that the Kreg Foreman was supposed to be permanently mounted and side stock supports installed to avoid the whole spiderman routine. Regards and keep up the good work.
Great Tool Talk Jay thanks, I have to say I am a Kreg fan, I brought mine to Colombia hidden in my case! There is a supplier in Colombia of basic stuff but it is very expensive, so I find myself buying ordinary washer head screws, and so far have had no problem. My K4 now has a few extra holes in it where I forgot to change the settings before using it...lol
our cabinet shop has been using the same kreg jig for face frames for 15 years that I know of ,it's been working here longer than I have ! ,and it works as good now as it ever did ,although it is all metal ,not plastic like the newer ones
I started with the R3 kit which seem to work well for the few projects I have done. Just recently picked up the HD version for some future outside projects. I'd like to get the K5 at some point, I'm not often in a hurry with projects so what I have now seems to work and do the job. Thanks for the info on these pocket hole jigs.
Hey, I am left handed. I lost the use of my right hand due to a (work)accident. I was a paramedic in the FireBrigade and got injured during a fight. This to explain. Almost everything is made for the right handed users. Even the place of pinmachines in the stores, sometimes I have to pin sidewards. Sinds my accident, I became Photografer. No cameras for the left, onehand users. Almost every tool (and I have a lot of them) is made for the righthanded user. I have to adjust my whole body to proper use them. I am not mad, only frustrated when somtimes things don't go easy.
Thanks to think about the difficulties of these people. BTW, I love your work and video's.
Willy from Belgium.
Maybe one day they will take that into consideration Willy. Good luck in your future endeavors.
Ron
I broke a bit while using my K4 jig earlier this year. I contacted Kreg about it and they sent me a new one no questions asked. I believe that they stand behind their products, which is why I don't hesitate to buy that brand.
Great review, Jay. I have the Kreg Jr. and it does the job. Not as fast as the K4 or K5, but the job gets done. I haven't used it a ton, but I have no complaints about it. I just don't use pocket holes that much.
Honest ,about to purchase.thanks for the the other product info 👍
Thanks for the tool talk Jay. I have the K4 and love it, I cannot justify the cost of the Forman for my shop.
I have the Kreg DIY jig (it came with some other things). I have used it for a lot of different projects that were not cabinet work. It has held up very well and have had no problem with the bit breaking (yet).
Very clear and fine Video! You have sold me! I will look for it!
I don't know if it has been said before, but I have the older model of the kreg foreman and it took care of almost everything that you complained about with this new cheaper model. All (mostly) metal construction. The drill motor is not mounted to the table plate so no wiggling when you lift the table top. The handle has no trigger or anything. The motor just activates when the handle starts moving and you can assemble the handle on either side of the arm. Never broken a bit in it in 4 years. I paid $800 or so for it and it would be one of the first things that I would replace if my shop burned to the ground.
Another great tool review. Straight to the point with honest feedback. Love it!
Re: Kreg customer service. I have the Kreg miter fence on my table saw. A pin didn't fit right when I assembled the fence. Kreg sent me a full replacement for the fence. I'm very pleased with the way the fence works. Very accurate and easy to use.
I have the original Kreg which I purchased to help my son build a deck and railings for his first house it still works great. Though a couple of years ago I found and bought one from Harbor Freight and for the money it is a great investment as I use it to build toy boxes and bookcases that I do know, Try one you won't be disappointed.
I know this is an older video but I watched it yesterday and have a Kreg Jig Forman that I stopped using after breaking 3 bits on it during a single project. I stashed it away thinking I would look at it when I had more time and continued the project using other kreg pocket hole jigs I have. You mentioned that they sent you new bits so I contacted Kreg about it. They think there is something wrong with the bushing so they are sending me a new bushing and 3 new bits. I like a company that stands behind their products. While this is my only interaction with them it was a positive one. Hopefully the bushing will address the issue as I really like the speed and ease of the Forman.
Thanks for the feedback.
Hey, Jay, great overview. A few comments...
1- I checked the Kreg website and looks like the handle on the foreman is still oriented the same way. Another idea would be for them to make it pivotable - then it could switch from right to left-handed with a twist
2- I have never broken a bit, but I have also never used a bit with a hex base (don't have the foreman)
3- I cannot emphasize enough the importance of dust collection on the K4 jig. My jig is even older (K3?) and I first had it for a few years without the dust shroud and the holes pack with sawdust after 2-3 holes, requiring me to stop and clear them. But with the dust shroud and a shop vac you can keep drilling with no sawdust clogs. highly highly recommend that dust shroud.
...art
I broke the drill bit on the kreg jig the first hole I drilled. They sent me a new bit, no questions asked.
Thanks for the breakdown of pocket hole joinery. The Porter Cable 560 quikjig you mentioned is on sale for $171 at Home Depot
I’m still on my original bit in mine, I run it on almost every cabinet and staircase job too so it’s used a ton
Jay, great review. I can sure see in a production environment the large unit would be a real time saver. Another advantage I could see would be if you had to put pocket holes in the end of a really long piece of lumber. Thanks for the really good video. Paul / paulsmessyworkshop
Re the bit breaking issues I was told when buying the mini jig that I must always ensure that the battery drill was fully charged and running at its full speed before engaging the wood to create the pocket. Seems that if the tip is offered to the wood before its up to speed it is forced sideways and snaps it off. Thinking abut it you can see how that happens. With a rapid jig perhaps the trick is to not crash the lever down but to move the first part slowly to allow the motor to spin up before the tip engages the wood. Imagine that you are using a hand drill and allow the motor to spin up. I bet that is why so many bits are broken using a K5. Sweeping the engage lever down too fast at the start of the stroke.
Jay, with regards to having to use your left hand - Ron Paulk built some little box supports he puts out to either side, That may help you - The name of the video is "Building Cabinets" He does not show them in use but you get the idea. Hope that helpsGreat review videoScott
Just wanted to point out that I also have the Kreg K4... I often pull the drill guide off of the main unit to use it just the same as you would the Kreg Mini... clamp (or even temporarily screw the drill guide) to the work piece and drill the hole just like the Kreg Mini... so if you have the K4 or K5 system you have the same capability of the Kreg Mini in the removable/ adjustable drill guide.
+Stew Pidass Thanks for that nugget! You just saved me 20 bucks.
Reading your comment really made me feel dumb lol. Can't say I had the common sense to do that.
Nicely set up workshop though, Jay...nice and neat.
Funny, I am carpenter( in 25 years) from Denmark, never seen a pocket hole machine before?? and i bet non off my colleges has, amazing:)
I don't do a lot of pocket holes, so I wasn't wanting to drop $100 for Kreg. I ended up getting the unit from Harbor Freight. It's almost always on for $60ish and with a 20 or 25% coupon, it was just over $50, making it about half the cost of the Kreg. So far it seems good and it came with the drill bit and a handful of different size pocket hole screws. You can also take the drill guides off and use them individually like the Kreg mini.
I ordered my K4 yesterday (still waiting for it to come in), but I was really looking hard at the HF version. After reading all of the reviews online, even most the 5 star mentioned that you get a lot of tear out (blow out) on the wood because it does not press all the way against the piece you are drilling. Do you have this issue?
Michael Gillitzer YES... I thought maybe it was just a cheap bit, so I purchased the Kreg brand bit, but I still have the same issue. Now I kind of wish I had the kreg, but I don't do too many pocket holes so I just have to clean them up.
Use the dust extractor adapter for the K5. It works perfectly leaving "zero" shavings to mess up registration
At 10:50, put a stand as you have your miter saw so you don't have to hold it with your right hand and work the handle with the left.
The other way I deal with the left hand side problem is I have built a table with an insert to keep the table consent and flat. When I remove the insert (which is sized to the foreman) I take out the insert and replace with the foreman and at point you can use either side of the panel left or right using your right hand which is super quick and love it. I realize you can't use this on a job site but you could design a platform to house and solve this issue.
Hey Jay Rock in H wood-shop came up with a nice mounting set up for the k5 .
Great tool talk once again.
Gregg from NY
Molon Labe
I have a Porter cable pocket hole system and recently bought a K5 and I prefer my K5 by far.
The Porter cable is bulky and I HATE the left adjustable hole.
It can be a pain and the hole is difficult to get center and even like on my K5.
I have had 2 other small Kreg pocket hole systems but the K5 is my first large one that I bolted to a sheet of wood. My other 2 were just the 2 hole systems that clamp to the wood.
I may still use my Porter cable system in the future but for my cabinets my K5 is doing a much better and clean job.
Given the option, I would go for the K5. I have had both, the K5 has the lever on the working side of the jig so you do not have to reach across sheet goods to lock in place.
I get by fine with the Kreg Mini. It's a little bit fiddly to position (a super-simple placement jig helps with that), but you don't really need anything more unless you're in a production environment.
I thought about making a pocket hole station much like a miter saw station. With the Foreman dropped down and table wings to the left and right, you'd have the material support to eliminate the awkwardness of being a right-hand only machine.
I broke a bit on the normal/original Kreg Jig one time, I took it back to Lowes and they exchanged the whole kit. Have not had a problem since. The break was my fault, I had the drill in reverse and was trying to drill the hole... durrrr.
lol
Very helpful review. Great video presentation.
Used very frequently an auxiliary hydraulic foot pedal would be a motivated investment to upgrade it with.
Jon Peters has his rigged with a foot pedal. Very fast.
Drill bit needs to be run at full speed before the plunge cutting begins so you don't put excess pressure on the tip and you won't break anymore tips well they will last a lot longer
Hope this helps
Stephen
Yes Kreg replaced my bit also after I emailed to reorder after breaking the tip off. They never charged me.
I'm looking for a pocket hole jig. Thanks for an honest comparison. Love the Red Wing handles on your shop drawers.
Great tool talk, I have been looking at the Forman for a while. I'm like you wait on that big project to justify it.
Hi there from Portugal,
Thanks for another nice tool review :D
Have you considered making a couple of mini sawhorses the right height to support long pieces?
The Foreman machines break bits because like a drill press, you have a huge leverage advantage and end up putting considerably more pressure on the bit versus hand drilling. That's my theory, anyway.
I've broken 3-4 bits with my Foreman and Kreg replaced them. Very nice of them considering the cost of the hex version.
Edit: And for what it's worth, as much as I liked the Foreman when I got to use it, I have a K5 and it's really not much slower, and probably about as convenient. I prefer it with large panels, actually. The front handle is a super cool improvement over the K4.
Loved the review of the Kreg tools. I really like the K4 that I have but wish they had the K5 out when I purchased one.
Sell it or pass it on to your kids or a friend. Ask for a K-5 for Christmas!
This video is quite old now, but you mentioned not using pocket holes too much now, so what do you use now?
Thanks for this series Jay. Would love to have you cover your miter saw.
Awesome overview Jay. I too have the K4 and I too made a jig, similar to yours but without the large base, mine was a piece of sheet good with laminated arms to it looks like a big T. Really wanted to hear your thoughts on the Foreman. Great video.
Thanks for the info Jay! I just won the foreman from an Instructables prize and wasn't sure I wanted to keep it. It was great to hear your thoughts on it pros & cons!
porta cable has a AWESOME jig
Hi Jay. You mentioned that you wanted to make a library of Tool Talk videos on this channel. I was wondering when you will be putting these into a playlist?
+Alexander Pascual Done: ruclips.net/p/PLvUqSjqBudWd4EYq3-AFhVcbdKb5Y5UTr
+Jay Bates 2 Yes! Nice.
This series is great !! I would like to also see the "Hand Tools" you use(like a block plane) and why they are used over any powered tools that could do the job. Also do you use Set Up measuring blocks specialized digital tools or jigs? If so it would be great to learn about what you use, and why ??
Hey Jay, I contacted Kreg after I had what I would consider a lot of bits break. In my mind it seemed like maybe it was a bad batch of steel from the bits. After contacting them they sent me three new bits. I buy my stuff all at once so I had bought 3 bits from HD at the same time all three broke on the same spot as yours. Now almost 6 months later I have had one of those bits break which I am fine with. That one bit drilled about 3000 pocket holes so I feel that is a decent amount of wear and tear. Now thinking back I think it may have something to do with the drill speed. I used to use a big heavy duty hitatchi corded drill that spun at what felt like really really abnormally high speeds to me. Now I have switched to using a 20v drill that doesn't spin nearly as fast as the older drill. So that could have something to do with it as well. Also the K4 is a great tool but you will have to lubricate that clamp shaft from time to time or it will start to catch. Overall that jig is really priceless for quick assembly.
Very good coverage.
great review Jay!
For some reason the Foreman seems to me like it would be a crazy amount of leverage. Do you find it difficult gauging pressure as you're using that one?
+Graidian Clark No. The pressure you need to push down is much less than the pressure you need to lift a drill in one of the other jigs. It's much easier to use and more ergonomically friendly in normal use.
That's what I mean, seems like it would throw off the feeling, and my luck I'd apply too much pressure and snap a bit.
Jay, You are definitely not the first person to break bits on the DB210 kreg machine. I purchased one about 2 months ago when my DB110 motor broke and I couldn't wait the several days for the new motor. I broke my first bit after 322 holes which was about 30 minutes into using it. I found that the reason this machine breaks bits the play in the clamping mechanism. Removing the black rubber cap helps but the machine has an engineering flaw that allows the material to slide to the right 1/16th of a inch which is enough to stress the tip of the bit and break it especially in hardwoods. It's really quite frustrating.
As for your issue with the safety trigger, that's easily addressed. If you remove the screws on the back of the handle and separate the two pieces you will find a little spring behind the red thumb lock. Just remove this spring and reassemble. This eliminates the thumb lock which is unnecessary in my opinion as the DB110 does not have one.
That said as someone who drills 25,000 or more pocket holes a year I can say with a lot of confidence the DB210 is junk compared to the DB110.
well, the kreg seem to be very popular despite a high price IMHO. I tried a kreg type system and what T'ed me off was when i used them to attach a table top down the screws did not pull the top down tight and left ripples in the top. Now to my error possibly , i did NOT clamp the top down prior to installing the screws. Anyway that's when I noticed the Whiteoak tools(from Detroit) Rout-a-pocket and like the system very well despite the little bit longer time to use it. It came with a jig to make your own plugs if so desired. well enough selling. What happened to those Lions with the Packers. If it weren't for bad luck, then no luck at all.
sorry, an unrelated question. could you mention the purpose of all the holes on your work table. reminds me of hockey tables. thanks
Hi Jay, I also have the Kreg Forman and have drilled 100's of pocket holes. I have NOT broken any of the drill bits, so I wonder if there is something wrong with your unit?
Great review. My only comment is do not drop the bit it is hardened steel and the point will snap off if it hits wrong so treat the bit carefully. I've never broken one in use just dropping a couple.
What I’ve heard was you need to have the drill fully engaged before the drill begins to cut into the wood. That should save the drill bit better.
excellent presentation
Jay, can you do one of these talks on your routers. I saw the Freud plunge router and wanted to know what you thought about it.
just found your site about 3 weeks ago, very informative and realistic projects. thanks for the review of the tools you use. what do your customers think of the pocket holes?
Could the bits be breaking on the Foreman because you're able to do them quickly, making the bit heat up to the point it loses its structural strength? Probably the bits need to be made with steel that can operate at higher temps.
No, that heat is well below the temperature required to effect the strength of the bit.
You'd be right if the drills were made from old school high carbon steel. High speed steel commonly used in today's drill's is impossible to overheat even on a grinder if it's hand held while grinding it. High Speed Steel can go well into the red heat range before affecting it's temper or strength. If? and I'm not saying it is, but if the drills are cheaply made with poor quality steel or incorrect heat treatment then that would be a couple of possible reasons for them breaking.
Love my Kreg jig. Hoping you do a review on your miter saw.
have always enjoyed your straight forward videos...and in this video i noticed your selves where you stored the large jig....question...is that the same style shelves you had shown for over the garage door? seemed like garage door shelf was a frame of split2x4's
What joining methods are you using now if your not using pocket holes. I have the k4 but thinking about getting the foreman
Do you have an update on the Grizzly bandsaw? I'm about to pull the trigger on one while they have the Christmas sell going on.
No update video right now but if you're wondering I'd buy mine again if I had to.
Are you located in Michigan? I see the red wing handles on your miter station drawers
Have you notice where the hole ends, compare to the Castle 100 it sets the hole at center of piece.
good stuff jay thanks for the talk.
I have the same K4 pocket hole jig. Often it is quite difficult to drill the hole. I don't know if the bit is dull or what but I typically have to put my body weight on it to complete the hole. Do you have any idea as to why this may be? Do you have any suggestions for me? Thanks.
I'm getting ready to build my miter station. I purchased your plans and will be modeling your design.
I'm in the market for the Kreg Jig but the Kreg Foreman is a bit pricy for me now. I would consider buying in if I were to build more "big" projects like the miter station, but as with yours, mine would probably be the biggest one I'll build.
So my question is, would you get the Foreman over the K5 just to save time for this one big project, or get the K5 to save money since this would be the only one big project you would build?
Thanks.
He answered that question in the video.
12:45
+Ken Porter Thanks, but my question is would he get the Foremen vs the K5 or vice versa.
+Joey Medina For a one-time *huge* project, I'd recommend going with the K5.
As Jay points out, the primary advantage of the Foreman is *speed*. You'd be spending about $230 less on the K5, and trading off a small amount of extra time in material prep.
Another reason would be for the versatility the K5 offers. As noted above in the first comment, the drill guide can be used as a stand-alone for doing in-place repairs, working large panels (pantry size), and those occasions that Jay mentioned of realizing you need a pockethole *after* you've started assembly (not an uncommon circumstance in my experience ;))
Btw, I do free-lance custom cabinets and still find the K4 to be fine. I know I could save time with the Foreman, but just haven't been sufficiently motivated to spend the $$ :)
Sidebar for K4 owners - check into upgrading your clamp to a Bessey auto-adjust clamp! PeachTree has a great kit to adapt the Bessey to the K4 base, and you will LOVE it!
The best $35 (includes both clamp & adapter) you'll spend on upgrading a key tool in your arsenal
+Joey Medina I built an equivalent of Jay's mitre station and used the K5 for all the pocket holes.
lh3.googleusercontent.com/vC-VnDOHWrkiwU84cMYuKoNN2KXg_Ts-xGRwq9QYHI4gfekl87xG=w1076-h798-no
It went well, and I'm delighted with the end result, but my arm was aching at the end of the day when I drilled most of the holes. I would love to have used a Foreman on that build, but I don't do enough other pocket hole stuff to justify it and so for me the K5 was the better option.
pocket hole type wood working is what made your channel popular why are you going away from it. there are lots of channels using super expensive methods of woodworking your channel was the place to get projects done fast and cheap i always thought.
Regarding the right hand/left hand problem, how about locking the thumb safety button in place with a cable tie or similar? Naughty but I'm sure it wouldn't make it that dangerous.
Breaking bits in hardwood or ply only? Did you break many/any in pine/soft woods?
Both pine ply and birch ply. The birch ply has poplar internal plys
+Jay Bates 2 I wonder if the bit takes a small amount of arc as it travels? It might be hard to detect without tooling but that could be the bit breakage culprit. Thanks for the review. I have the older aluminum k4 - my only complaint is the lack of dust collection. but like you, I don't do all that many pocket holes any more.
"It's a Jay Thing". I'll be disappointed if you don't have that on a T-shirt in the future. ☺
I have been reluctant to use pocket holes ever since I had a bad experience with long screws under heavy load pulling the head through the end grain. Not splitting, but actually pulling a screw head sized plug right out of the end of the stile. Quite unnerving I can assure you as this was Doug Fir utility shelving and I was frequently seated under the overhead shelves.