Yes! Bianca's story is so moving to me, even to this day! She's amazing and I hate the fact that people call her annoying to this day. She isn't annoying, she's a girl exploring the world and figuring out what she wants to do with her life! Thank you so much for this video. Putting what i've been thinking for years into words.
In games, I quite like Biance and her character development. Unlike Hau or Hop, Bianca never was annoying to me. But in the anime... man that is a whole different story. There, she really was annoying. Just her pushing Ash to the water to be able to see him shirtless bothered me as much, if not even more, than Iris' "little kids" remarks, or Brock's romatic escapades. But then again, BW was the worst anime saga. Which is ironic that at the same time when games had the best story, anime had the worst. But I digress here. What I wanted to say is that I wouldn't be surprised if many of the comments about how Bianca was annoying came from people that only watched the anime and never played the games. That's my theory.
@@petrnovak7235 The opposite, she is a nothing character in the games, and an incredibly written character in the anime. Everything you say here is incorrect. Anyway, I won't try to convince you, I can see you're one of those pokemon fans that doesn't understand the anime even on the base level
@@natalimoina I respect your opinion, but politely disagree. I think I understand anime. Watched it way before I even played my first Pokémon game. And yet, I still found Bianca one of the most characters in anime, whereas in the games I found her well written and well developed character. But, of course that's my just my opinion.
@@petrnovak7235 But at the very least objectively, Bianca did not push him into water to see him shirtless, not even close. I'm always quite apprehensive of crapping on BW anime considering its level of quality and necessity to the anime's overall story, characters and themes. Vast majority of pokemon fans don't seem to understand anything about it (or any of the anime in general), but ok, I'll give benefit of the doubt here. Fair enough.
I so so so so so wanted an animated cutscene in BW2 where our original character from BW come back at some point and Cheren, Bianca, and the original BW player character have a happy reunion woth them all crying since it's been years since they've seen them.
earlygame Cheren is what Pokemon games have become. /j These two are definitely underrated. The way BW uses all three of its rivals to focus on telling a message of positive compromise is beautiful, and Cheren's arc in particular bleeds into Pokemon Masters where he's once again a big part of imparting his accumulated wisdom onto characters like Lear and Paulo to try and help put them back in a good mindset, succeeding with the former but not the latter (which is fine. Characters can and should be flawed). They more than deserve getting those Neo Champion titles in PMEX, finding that life even in the Pokémon universe does not have to be strictly about battling or becoming the strongest trainer, but about finding your path to follow.
As both a Pokemon fan and a Persona fan, if the rumors/leaks are true that Persona 6 theme is black and white and modern vs traditional, then I can't wait to see what the story will be, black and white as a theme has so many possibilities and can be combined with so many things that a Story focused game series like Persona that has some of the best writers in gaming can take the Story to another level
While Cheren and Bianca are great story centralized characters, I have always preferred Silver for his implied story arc. Sure call him a douchey rival, but his growth is there especially with the stuff they added in HGSS. From stuff known about him: He was raised by the most notorious Pokemob Boss throughout two regions until he was Seven years old, when his father walked out and abandoned him with a want to grow stronger as he had just lost to a ten year old kid (Red/Leaf). By the time Silver is 10, he's abandoned entirely, blaming his father's weakness and the weakness of 'weak' Pokemon. He sees the new Protagonist's smile as idealistic and 'weak'. He sees idealists like the Leader of the monks in Sprout Tower, Eusine and Morty for holding out for Legendary hopes, and Jasmine for tending to the 'weak,' sickly, replaceable Amphy; as 'weak.' This all comes to a head when he challenges Lance in the Rocket Hideout; Lance challenging Silver's own ideals of strength and this sends Silver spiralling for a life without a purpose... He begins to see the strength in friendship and by the time the player sees him again his Golbat has evolved. His goal has become that to overcome those that have surpassed his ideals (Player and Lance). He succeeds eventually with Lance after Lance takes him under his (bird keeper 😜) wing. Even able with the help of his once most disliked frenemy (Player) to overcome two Dragon Master cousins. He continues seeing the world to expand on his ideals until he has a chance against the Player. His ideals weren't something that could be realized just shifted and improved as he grew up. He had a harsh truth at a young age that defined him, but was able to change his truth and grow. Silver isn't just a jerky rival, he has even more story than Green Oak if you think about it, he's not a story focus like Cheren and Bianca but still has great story elements in HGSS.
@@mray4784The only thing I'd say that is speculative head canon would be the discussion of the concept of ideals; as it's near impossible to describe what a non-protagonist may be thinking when they in turn can't naturally think... being data. The rest of those events described actually happened. See in timeline order: 1. Beginning of Celebi Event (HGSS): The Player and Elm's Child get brought back in time by Celebi to witness Silver being abandoned by Giovanni due to just having lost to the previous game's protagonist. 2. Silver steals the starter from Elm, 3 years after his family has abandoned him (start of HGSS), runs into and is (usually) defeated by the player, calling the player, their Pokemon, and his Pokemon weak. 3. Silver storms into Sprout Tower seeking strength, however the monks do not teach it the way Silver wants, he storms out . 4. Silver hears tell of the protagonist defeating a group known as Team Rocket outside Azalea... He tells the player not to help him with that 'weak group'. 5. Protagonist runs into Silver in the burned tower, he is looking for more strong Pokemon... He laughs at Morty and Eusine's Legendary hopes. Loses to the player and runs out 6. Silver runs into the player as he comes out of an empty gym disappointed... He says the Gym Leader isn't there and is instead tending to a weak Pokemon that she should basically abandon. 7. At the Rocket Hideout in Mahogany, Silver pushes past the Protagonist. We find out from Lance that Silver attempted to battle him and lost significantly. Lance told him to open his heart to his Pokemon 8. In Goldenrod during the Rocket Invasion, Silver first finds the player dressed in the fake TR garb (HGSS) and berates them for wearing it... Later in his fury, he battles the player for sticking their nose where they shouldn't... Again... (Both Games) 8. In HGSS, upon arrival at the Kimono Girls' building, we witness another loss for Silver he begins to storm out pausing temporarily at the sight of the player only to continue on. 9. Silver has successfully cleared out all trainers from Victory Road and challenges the player one final time before the league, upon losing he begins to see merit in Lance's words to him. 10. At Mt. Moon, a softer Silver who says he's gotten some training from Lance challenges the player and humbly accepts his loss. 11a. The Player can run into Silver two different ways after Mt. Moon, both can reveal the more vital information for this part. A happens in both games, where the player, at the Indigo Plateau, can occasionally be challenged by Silver with his new Crobat. 11b. Happens in HGSS in the Dragon's Den at Blackthorn, where the player finds Lance and Silver training... The one who storms anywhere this time is Clair and she challenges her cousin's new student (Silver) for taking up her cousin's time. Lance asks the player to team up with Silver against the pair of adults... I can but won't include the loose canon event from games like Pokemon Masters EX... But everything else is canon as you can see from my initial post.
I think the reason why I liked Hop so much on sw/sh's release is because he's basically Bianca if she was the main rival with a few tweaks here and there Bianca is so underrated, i get than her and cheren get overshadowed by N because of his relevance in the story but I think she especially deserved better considering rivals in these games don't get to have much of an arch
Unironically great video, even tho it was somewhat shorts, you said everything in a very interesting way, and i really appreciate what you said since im a big fan of Cheren and Bianca, that being said, 0:03 Why did you act like the rival going on a journey with the protagonist was creepy?
Fully agree with the N stuff. When he loses, he doesn’t seem to mind because he’s questioned his own truth/ideals which is why he was able to awaken Reshi/Zekrom in the first place. Ghetsis represents someone who is aware of truths and ideals and that power/influence over others is an undercurrent of both. He isn’t a twist villain: Ghetsis is what happens when people don’t explore their truths and ideals and blindly follow along. The game is subtly telling you from the start ‘don’t be like them’.
I always found it strange that Cheren's all about strength while Bianca is frequently referred to as proof that "not everyone can be strong" until she finds her own strength as Professor Juniper's assistant. The strange part is that their levels are basically the same and the fight's feel about equal in difficulty.
People say Bianca is forgettable but she and Hop have the same arc, no? Just with her it’s pressure from her expectations and with hop it’s expectations of having a successful brother.
I don't play the games, but Bianca in the games doesn't make sense to me. If Cheren shows that there's so much more to being a pokemon trainer than strength, which is a great message, isn't that just trashed on when they say Bianca shouldn't be a pokemon trainer because she lacks strength? It's silly and sends the wrong message. I'm glad the anime scrapped this with Bianca and made her compelling in a completely different way and improved upon Cheren in the form of Trip as well.
Seems like you didn't get the real message of Bianca's story in the games. It's the exact opposite, actually. The message of her story is that strength is not everything. And the fact they scrapped this in the anime is part of what made her annoying there. Annoying and bland professor aid without any real deepness in her story.
@@petrnovak7235 Then why is she unfit to be a trainer in the games though? I don't really see how she's annoying, I think she's a delight, with wonderful character writing and relationships and struggles, which fit the anime's story consistently. In the games, she is just mostly a nothing character from what I have seen, although that is pretty much every pokemon game character tbf. Kinda just a problem with the whole game format they've got going on in the first place and their priorities (not that it's necessarily a bad choice)
@@natalimoina The only character that says Bianca is unfit to be trainer in the games is her father. And that's, actually, focal point to her game characterisation, this conflict with her father and also a reason why she wants to be stronger. This was almost non-existent in the anime. Yes, there was one episode they touched this conflict slightly in the anime, but it was quickly resolved thanks to Ash and Elesa and never mentioned again. And with that out, Bianca in the anime had nothing else going for her. She was just a clumsy professor's aid that loved to threw boys (and Ash especially) into the water to see them shirtless. That's all for her. Mind you, I have nothing against clumsy characters, if they are written well and the clumsiness is not their main characterisation and also adds to the show. Like Marshall in Paw Patrol, my favourite pup in that show. His clumsiness is part of his characterisation, that adds funny running joke to the show, but it's not his main characterisation. Far from it, actually. And it's sad to say that this character from preschooler cartoon is better written than Bianca in the anime, whose clumsiness was her main character trait and that made her annoying. As annoying, as Brock's flirting and Iris' "you are such a kid", all of them being the most annoying and least funny running jokes in the anime. OK, those and Bonnie's "will you marry my brother" joke, though Clemont's embarrassment made the last one at least partially bearable. But for neither of those characters was this their main character traits. For Bianca it was. And that's what made her so annoying.
@@petrnovak7235 Ok, you continue to spout objectively incorrect information about the anime, and you cannot even answer my question directly. Average pokemon fan behaviour I guess lmao. This conversation is not genuine and is useless for me to continue, goodbye.
@@natalimoina I did answer your questions. It's not my fault you don't like them. You are the one who refuses to answer my questions. And if you have at least some decency, can you please tell me where exactly I spout nonsenses about the anime? Because, and I am sorry to be this blunt, for me you are the one who spouts nonsenses about the anime. If you are unable or unwilling to do so, then I agree this debate is pointless. It's fine to have different opinions, but defending them the way you shown hardly help you.
I never realized how the detail of Cheren getting ahead of the professor's explanation was an early sign of his arc. ❤️
Yes! Bianca's story is so moving to me, even to this day! She's amazing and I hate the fact that people call her annoying to this day. She isn't annoying, she's a girl exploring the world and figuring out what she wants to do with her life! Thank you so much for this video. Putting what i've been thinking for years into words.
her kindness and optimism and open mindness make her a top tier character
In games, I quite like Biance and her character development. Unlike Hau or Hop, Bianca never was annoying to me. But in the anime... man that is a whole different story. There, she really was annoying. Just her pushing Ash to the water to be able to see him shirtless bothered me as much, if not even more, than Iris' "little kids" remarks, or Brock's romatic escapades. But then again, BW was the worst anime saga. Which is ironic that at the same time when games had the best story, anime had the worst. But I digress here. What I wanted to say is that I wouldn't be surprised if many of the comments about how Bianca was annoying came from people that only watched the anime and never played the games. That's my theory.
@@petrnovak7235 The opposite, she is a nothing character in the games, and an incredibly written character in the anime. Everything you say here is incorrect. Anyway, I won't try to convince you, I can see you're one of those pokemon fans that doesn't understand the anime even on the base level
@@natalimoina I respect your opinion, but politely disagree. I think I understand anime. Watched it way before I even played my first Pokémon game. And yet, I still found Bianca one of the most characters in anime, whereas in the games I found her well written and well developed character. But, of course that's my just my opinion.
@@petrnovak7235 But at the very least objectively, Bianca did not push him into water to see him shirtless, not even close. I'm always quite apprehensive of crapping on BW anime considering its level of quality and necessity to the anime's overall story, characters and themes. Vast majority of pokemon fans don't seem to understand anything about it (or any of the anime in general), but ok, I'll give benefit of the doubt here. Fair enough.
I really wish I could have experienced these games as a kid, the story of the Unova games is so interesting!
I so so so so so wanted an animated cutscene in BW2 where our original character from BW come back at some point and Cheren, Bianca, and the original BW player character have a happy reunion woth them all crying since it's been years since they've seen them.
earlygame Cheren is what Pokemon games have become. /j
These two are definitely underrated. The way BW uses all three of its rivals to focus on telling a message of positive compromise is beautiful, and Cheren's arc in particular bleeds into Pokemon Masters where he's once again a big part of imparting his accumulated wisdom onto characters like Lear and Paulo to try and help put them back in a good mindset, succeeding with the former but not the latter (which is fine. Characters can and should be flawed).
They more than deserve getting those Neo Champion titles in PMEX, finding that life even in the Pokémon universe does not have to be strictly about battling or becoming the strongest trainer, but about finding your path to follow.
thanks for helping me shed a tear. i feel a mix between these two
As both a Pokemon fan and a Persona fan, if the rumors/leaks are true that Persona 6 theme is black and white and modern vs traditional, then I can't wait to see what the story will be, black and white as a theme has so many possibilities and can be combined with so many things that a Story focused game series like Persona that has some of the best writers in gaming can take the Story to another level
While Cheren and Bianca are great story centralized characters, I have always preferred Silver for his implied story arc. Sure call him a douchey rival, but his growth is there especially with the stuff they added in HGSS.
From stuff known about him: He was raised by the most notorious Pokemob Boss throughout two regions until he was Seven years old, when his father walked out and abandoned him with a want to grow stronger as he had just lost to a ten year old kid (Red/Leaf). By the time Silver is 10, he's abandoned entirely, blaming his father's weakness and the weakness of 'weak' Pokemon. He sees the new Protagonist's smile as idealistic and 'weak'. He sees idealists like the Leader of the monks in Sprout Tower, Eusine and Morty for holding out for Legendary hopes, and Jasmine for tending to the 'weak,' sickly, replaceable Amphy; as 'weak.' This all comes to a head when he challenges Lance in the Rocket Hideout; Lance challenging Silver's own ideals of strength and this sends Silver spiralling for a life without a purpose... He begins to see the strength in friendship and by the time the player sees him again his Golbat has evolved. His goal has become that to overcome those that have surpassed his ideals (Player and Lance). He succeeds eventually with Lance after Lance takes him under his (bird keeper 😜) wing. Even able with the help of his once most disliked frenemy (Player) to overcome two Dragon Master cousins. He continues seeing the world to expand on his ideals until he has a chance against the Player.
His ideals weren't something that could be realized just shifted and improved as he grew up. He had a harsh truth at a young age that defined him, but was able to change his truth and grow.
Silver isn't just a jerky rival, he has even more story than Green Oak if you think about it, he's not a story focus like Cheren and Bianca but still has great story elements in HGSS.
Pure headcanon. Silver is not a good character.
@@mray4784The only thing I'd say that is speculative head canon would be the discussion of the concept of ideals; as it's near impossible to describe what a non-protagonist may be thinking when they in turn can't naturally think... being data.
The rest of those events described actually happened. See in timeline order:
1. Beginning of Celebi Event (HGSS): The Player and Elm's Child get brought back in time by Celebi to witness Silver being abandoned by Giovanni due to just having lost to the previous game's protagonist.
2. Silver steals the starter from Elm, 3 years after his family has abandoned him (start of HGSS), runs into and is (usually) defeated by the player, calling the player, their Pokemon, and his Pokemon weak.
3. Silver storms into Sprout Tower seeking strength, however the monks do not teach it the way Silver wants, he storms out .
4. Silver hears tell of the protagonist defeating a group known as Team Rocket outside Azalea... He tells the player not to help him with that 'weak group'.
5. Protagonist runs into Silver in the burned tower, he is looking for more strong Pokemon... He laughs at Morty and Eusine's Legendary hopes. Loses to the player and runs out
6. Silver runs into the player as he comes out of an empty gym disappointed... He says the Gym Leader isn't there and is instead tending to a weak Pokemon that she should basically abandon.
7. At the Rocket Hideout in Mahogany, Silver pushes past the Protagonist. We find out from Lance that Silver attempted to battle him and lost significantly. Lance told him to open his heart to his Pokemon
8. In Goldenrod during the Rocket Invasion, Silver first finds the player dressed in the fake TR garb (HGSS) and berates them for wearing it... Later in his fury, he battles the player for sticking their nose where they shouldn't... Again... (Both Games)
8. In HGSS, upon arrival at the Kimono Girls' building, we witness another loss for Silver he begins to storm out pausing temporarily at the sight of the player only to continue on.
9. Silver has successfully cleared out all trainers from Victory Road and challenges the player one final time before the league, upon losing he begins to see merit in Lance's words to him.
10. At Mt. Moon, a softer Silver who says he's gotten some training from Lance challenges the player and humbly accepts his loss.
11a. The Player can run into Silver two different ways after Mt. Moon, both can reveal the more vital information for this part. A happens in both games, where the player, at the Indigo Plateau, can occasionally be challenged by Silver with his new Crobat.
11b. Happens in HGSS in the Dragon's Den at Blackthorn, where the player finds Lance and Silver training... The one who storms anywhere this time is Clair and she challenges her cousin's new student (Silver) for taking up her cousin's time. Lance asks the player to team up with Silver against the pair of adults...
I can but won't include the loose canon event from games like Pokemon Masters EX... But everything else is canon as you can see from my initial post.
I think the reason why I liked Hop so much on sw/sh's release is because he's basically Bianca if she was the main rival with a few tweaks here and there
Bianca is so underrated, i get than her and cheren get overshadowed by N because of his relevance in the story but I think she especially deserved better considering rivals in these games don't get to have much of an arch
also the rival battle them for them is underrated
Unironically great video, even tho it was somewhat shorts, you said everything in a very interesting way, and i really appreciate what you said since im a big fan of Cheren and Bianca, that being said, 0:03 Why did you act like the rival going on a journey with the protagonist was creepy?
that was my thought process as a child! i remember being annoyed when i had to stop my journey to battle them lol
@@PinkVanillish Yeah but like they are kids, i think creepy is a little exagerated
I was replaaying white recently and thinking about how great Bianca was! Then this video found it's way into my recommeded lol
Bianca is the most underrated pokemon character of all time. i hope she gets more in the future!!!!!
Bianca renaissance coming soon
agreed.
bianca is my hero wish i was more like her
Fully agree with the N stuff.
When he loses, he doesn’t seem to mind because he’s questioned his own truth/ideals which is why he was able to awaken Reshi/Zekrom in the first place.
Ghetsis represents someone who is aware of truths and ideals and that power/influence over others is an undercurrent of both. He isn’t a twist villain: Ghetsis is what happens when people don’t explore their truths and ideals and blindly follow along. The game is subtly telling you from the start ‘don’t be like them’.
Black and White's story was INCREDIBLE
I always found it strange that Cheren's all about strength while Bianca is frequently referred to as proof that "not everyone can be strong" until she finds her own strength as Professor Juniper's assistant. The strange part is that their levels are basically the same and the fight's feel about equal in difficulty.
!!!
Hope you're having a good day
i hope you are having a good day too!
People say Bianca is forgettable but she and Hop have the same arc, no? Just with her it’s pressure from her expectations and with hop it’s expectations of having a successful brother.
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking! I mean I haven't seen any Bianca haters that are also hop fans but I don't doubt they exist lmao
I feel like xy tried to replicate this with Shauna and Serena/Calem but executed it very poorly
100 %
I don't play the games, but Bianca in the games doesn't make sense to me. If Cheren shows that there's so much more to being a pokemon trainer than strength, which is a great message, isn't that just trashed on when they say Bianca shouldn't be a pokemon trainer because she lacks strength? It's silly and sends the wrong message. I'm glad the anime scrapped this with Bianca and made her compelling in a completely different way and improved upon Cheren in the form of Trip as well.
Seems like you didn't get the real message of Bianca's story in the games. It's the exact opposite, actually. The message of her story is that strength is not everything. And the fact they scrapped this in the anime is part of what made her annoying there. Annoying and bland professor aid without any real deepness in her story.
@@petrnovak7235 Then why is she unfit to be a trainer in the games though? I don't really see how she's annoying, I think she's a delight, with wonderful character writing and relationships and struggles, which fit the anime's story consistently. In the games, she is just mostly a nothing character from what I have seen, although that is pretty much every pokemon game character tbf. Kinda just a problem with the whole game format they've got going on in the first place and their priorities (not that it's necessarily a bad choice)
@@natalimoina The only character that says Bianca is unfit to be trainer in the games is her father. And that's, actually, focal point to her game characterisation, this conflict with her father and also a reason why she wants to be stronger. This was almost non-existent in the anime. Yes, there was one episode they touched this conflict slightly in the anime, but it was quickly resolved thanks to Ash and Elesa and never mentioned again. And with that out, Bianca in the anime had nothing else going for her. She was just a clumsy professor's aid that loved to threw boys (and Ash especially) into the water to see them shirtless. That's all for her. Mind you, I have nothing against clumsy characters, if they are written well and the clumsiness is not their main characterisation and also adds to the show. Like Marshall in Paw Patrol, my favourite pup in that show. His clumsiness is part of his characterisation, that adds funny running joke to the show, but it's not his main characterisation. Far from it, actually. And it's sad to say that this character from preschooler cartoon is better written than Bianca in the anime, whose clumsiness was her main character trait and that made her annoying. As annoying, as Brock's flirting and Iris' "you are such a kid", all of them being the most annoying and least funny running jokes in the anime. OK, those and Bonnie's "will you marry my brother" joke, though Clemont's embarrassment made the last one at least partially bearable. But for neither of those characters was this their main character traits. For Bianca it was. And that's what made her so annoying.
@@petrnovak7235 Ok, you continue to spout objectively incorrect information about the anime, and you cannot even answer my question directly. Average pokemon fan behaviour I guess lmao. This conversation is not genuine and is useless for me to continue, goodbye.
@@natalimoina I did answer your questions. It's not my fault you don't like them. You are the one who refuses to answer my questions.
And if you have at least some decency, can you please tell me where exactly I spout nonsenses about the anime? Because, and I am sorry to be this blunt, for me you are the one who spouts nonsenses about the anime. If you are unable or unwilling to do so, then I agree this debate is pointless. It's fine to have different opinions, but defending them the way you shown hardly help you.
also do not talk smack about may
I prefer nemona personally but also i never played gen v so
omg this needs to change
@@PinkVanillish respect other peoples opinion
@@thefuturiticsgamer0005 My bad! I was encouraging them to play gen 5! Nemoma is a good pick :)))
Gen 5 is the peak of Pokemon. I highly recommend giving them a try.
This is massive cope. Cheren and bianca are massively forgettable and utterly useless. I completely forgot they existed until I played BW2
Bianca and cheren are awesome imo
Still you care enough to comment on this video. Cope
Did you actually play the game lmfao
@AJ-ey5eh yes. I did. Thats why I said I forgot they exist until I played BW2
That's not a "cope" I belive it's called an "opinion"