Building a "Surfboard Fin Quiver" by Noel Salas Ep. 17
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- This video is about Building a "Surfboard Fin Quiver" by Noel Salas Ep. 17. Noel & Aarron Salas head to Futures Fins in Huntington Beach, CA to meet up with CEO John Griffin and Founder Vince Longo to build a fin quiver.
Building a surfboard quiver is important to surfers, but now we have unlimited options with fins to enhance the performance of a board in multiple surf conditions.
Noel will go into questions like why "Ride Number," which is how Futures Fins describes the feeling of fins by using Flex, Rake and Foil.
Description of "Ride Number" from Futures Fins website:
RIDE NUMBER DESCRIBES THE FEELING OF A FIN:
This feeling is represented on a scale from Speed Generating to Speed Control. The closer you get to 10, the more springy, fluid & responsive your board will feel to help generate speed. The closer you get to 1, the more solid, engaged & predictable your board will feel to help control speed. Fins with a Ride Number around 5 feel balanced & do not add any premium feelings to your board -- they let your board’s original character shine. To use Ride Number, just pick a feeling in your weight range, and give it a try. When you understand the different feels, you can get the most performance & enjoyment out of your equipment.
FLEX
Flexible fins will feel springy through turns and generate speed better, while stiffer fins will feel solid through turns and control speed better. This factor has the most weighting in determining Ride Number.
RAKE
Upright fins feel pivoty, allowing for tighter turns, while raked fins feel stable, providing hold through carves. The effect of rate on feeling is a significant factor on determining the Ride Number.
FOIL
V and V2 foils feel responsive and fluid through turns, while flat foils feel engaged and predictable through turns. The effects of Foil on the overall feeling are subtle but noticeable, therefore Foil has the least amount of weighting on the Ride Number.
Noel and John converse on what fins work best in different board types, wave conditions and how a fin with different flex can change the feel and characteristic of a board.
Sit back and enjoy the show!!!!
For more information on Futures Fins and their breakdown on Ride Number, go to Futuresfins.com.
Noel salas is one of the most articulate dudes on RUclips making surfing equipment 101 type videos , he knows his shit and he rips too!
Cheers Wyatt thanks for the compliments!!! Just made my day.....
@@surfnshowreviews7777 I second his statement thanks for your vids. very insightful and substantive.
this channel is the real shred show Noel not only speaks by speaking he tests equipment and talk from his experience I respect that and appreciate it too.
simply the best surfing channel on RUclips! so much Information. I am loving it!
I’ve had a quiver of 5 sets or more for the past decade or so now and it makes the world of a difference. Great video🤙🏽
Re watching, thanks for all the effort to share great info, great video
Thinking about switching up my fins now! This video really clears it up, thanks so much !
Agree, the right fins are critical, and most working in surf shops are not well informed - manufacturers need to provide better technical education. Certain industries are very good at this; a weak spot in the surf industry imo. Another well produced video with great surfing Noel.
hsp-sandiego Thanks and well said. My hope is to help the surfer (consumer) make good educated decisions before they purchase. Cheers!!!
He surfs like Kelly Slater
Epic content guys extremely helpful!!
Thanks for the effort and time needed to make this video
Miguel Marquina My pleasure. I hope it helps!
Another fantastic video Noel, keep em coming :)
supercow79 Cheers!!!
Great
Man your videos are exceptional!!!!
legen... wait for it... dary! :)
(I kind a have a fluid dynamics background, so I'm a bit biased toward this tech/engineering side of surf)
So epic!
Is there anyone who tries all these fins in a wave ranch?
curious about the performance(e.g. speed) under the same conditions
super helpful, Thanks
Thanks for another awesome video Noel. Very informative. I'm sure you've already have this in mind for the next video, but if you haven't, and since winter is just around the corner :D , I'd like to see your breakdown on different brand/style of wetsuits you prefer. I'm a huge fan of Hurley suits btw. Cheers! - Lawrence
I thought about it but it might be a little late as most people already have their 4/3 wetsuits purchased. I will try to get my hands on a few suits that look interesting to me that none of us have tried yet and give them a test run.Thanks for the comment. Cheers!
Thanks!
Good video! I have so many futures fins lol I'm 186-190 hs1, Roberts generations are some of my fav and large JJF when it's got some push. Been riding the med JJF a lot in beach breaks they work really well loosens up my board a lot but will still hold my weight. I feel like larger stiffer fins work better in EPs boards , I feel like the Roberts generations are what really turns my eps boards on .. I just got the new Dane Reynolds captain fins last night pretty stoked to try them .
Jeff Holmes Awesome thanks for posting this. Great info!!!
Question. He said a more pivot fin for speed generating but fins like the paddle quads are really upright and stiff. Though say those pyzel paddle quads are made for big waves or to be used on a Paddilac. You don't want to generate speed but more control it. So if pivot fins are more for generating speed why wouldnt they make those fins with more rake to them?
Hi Noel... what do you think about Alpha construction? The performance of this fins is the same like a Honeycomb?
Henrique K. The Alpha tech is good but I prefer the Honeycomb. The honeycomb seems to offer a little better consistency which means more predictable in my turns. The subtleties are close but noticeable from turn to turn at some level. However I like the price point of the Alpha’s and still good performance
Hey Noel, I love the video reviews.
Im 14 years old and 5'7 and 112 lbs. I currently surf a weirdo ripper in 5'4 @ 23.4L with the futures F4 blackstix or F4 honeycomb (both thruster) when the waves get a little bigger. I love the board and fin setup but the board is quite beat up after a year. Im looking at either the Fred stubble 5'5 @ 24L or the sampler 5'5 @ 23.9 but i really don't know which to go with. I am intermediate/advanced and surf everything from 2-6 foot beach breaks and reefs to the occasional 8 foot hollow point breaks here in Trinidad. I'd like to have your take on comparing the boards.
Again, love the reviews and your insight into the shapes and the way different boards work.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Logan
BoostGarden Logan stoked you like the show.
The WR is a great board and it can handle the waves you mentioned but I am not sure the F Stubble or Sampler can handle the range of surf and reef breaks you mentioned. I think the FS is more versatile but you might want to consider the Fever.
I think the Fever would go mental in 2-6+. Medium entry and exit rocker and super quick rail to rail. Tell me what you think....
I didn't consider the fever as much as the others because even the reefs we have here are quite mushy and don't have much power unless they're overhead... kinda like Lowers.
I actually surfed a 5'7 new flyer yesterday in one of the reefs @ 3-4 feet and it was really fun, lots of drive down the line and was able to put some good power into turns without it sliding.
Theres so many options and i don't want to buy something and regret it. Ill definitely check out the fever even though i like shorter and wider boards it'll be nice for a change if that is what i end up gong with.
You had actually talked to my dad Joseph about the sampler a couple days ago and he seems to think it would work good for a small wave board.
Ill do some more research and get back to you...
keep ripping bro!
BoostGarden The Sampler is insane for small waves. I love it in 1-4 waves and it will go so good in the mushy reef breaks too. I say Sampler in 1-4 or Fever in 2-6. That's my opinion. Cheers!!!
Hey noel. Do you know the am1 by shapers at corelite material? Do you find them too flexible for 1 fin quiver? I am advanced surfer.. Thank u. Awsome review as always
I do have those fins and they are great. They are similar to Honeycomb by Futures Fins or the Performance Core by FCS in construction and flex. I think they are good for all most waves and skill level of surfers.
Love the show Noel. Quick question for you: if I have a shortboard that feels loose or lacks drive, how would I add drive to it? Should I go with a stiffer fin? Or should I change fin size ---- i.e. bigger fin for more area to push off? Any insight is much appreciated!
Kit Thanks for the question. If this is a small wave board then I would go with a larger fin size and maybe something with more flex too. (Blackstix) if this board is a high performance short board then I would go with a larger fin and a medium flex. (Honeycomb)
Go Futures Thermotech, or FCS equivalent, they're great, really.
You’re clearly missing the point dude. No fin is good for everyone. We are all different sizes we all surf differently each board requires a different fin. There is no one stop shop on fin material shape or size.
Hi Noel. I would like to know the difference between the FCS II AL MERRICK PC AIRCORE TRI FINS and the DANE REYNOLDS BLACK PANTHER FIN BY CAPTAIN FIN? Thank you 🙏
Imran Esack They are pretty similar but sizing them up side by side... the Side fins on the DR’s have less fin area and a tad more Rake with a litter narrower tip. Center fin on the DR seems to have a little less area and a tad smaller a little more upright. These are the differences I can see be holding both sets side. By side. Very similar fins but the subtleties make a difference.
Ok great, I thought they were quite similar. Aesthetics aside, if your decision were based construction and shape, which one would you prefer if you don’t mind me asking?
Imran Esack Tough one... I like them both a bunch... I say go for affordability so Panthers in Captain Fin. Save some cash... right?
Surf n Show Reviews already ordered the panthers lol. Was just keen know the differences. Cheers Noel!🤙🏽
How bout using smaller side fins and a larger center-back fin?
For example, I really like using Futures Scimitar fins on the sides, and a F8 Thermotech in the back-center. Works great, very precise. I'm 6'4" x 185pounds + wetsuit. Boards 6' to 6'1", 31.2 to 32.2 liters.
Sounds good to me! What does that feel like under your feet? Do you still get drive from the smaller side fins? I am all about trying new things just give me an idea what the benefits are and I will test it out.
Surf Show and Tell Reviews faster, hollower waves is what smaller side fins with a larger back fin can feel best with. Slower, mushier waves can typically feel better with bigger side fins and a smaller back fin (or go twinny if board is suitable). Sean Mattison also makes the point on his 'fins video' about side fins size and back fins size in relation to wave type,… and btw you guys are pretty close geographically, - he's in O-side.
And yes, equal size fins being the standard,…though yes Merrick fins, which are a sort of common standard, are larger sides, slightly smaller back fin, but they have more rake, more base, narrower tip area, which altogether keep the Merrick fin set fairly neutral in handling. Btw, the honeycomb Merricks don't give me enough ummphhh and drive. I'm a Thermotech fan, but I haven't tried the Merrick Thermotechs; plus with the classic white look. But, the honeycomb Merricks work for Jordy, and he's practically the same size as me; he's 6'3" by about 190, I'm 6'4" by about mid 180's, and,… and I'm just a Joe Cruiser in comparison to him.
Great post on the fins and thanks for sharing with us all. Sean Mattison is a great surfer and a personal acquaintance of mine. I really like his videos on fins and his Von Sol surfboards.
I might have to give the small side fins a go on some hollow beach break this winter and see how it goes.
I like the CI honeycomb for control and consistency in and out of turns but they do NOT lack speed for me. If I want to go fast then I switch to the Blackstix F8 in small waves.
I have not tried the Thermotech fins you are talking about but if I can get my hands on some I will.
But then, as I've understood, on a suitable board shape without excessive buoyancy/tail-lift, quad fin set ups have been highly touted for hollow conditions. But, I'll stick with tri-fins. My minimal experience with quad fins was nothing special. Tri-fins however, very special for me. Owen Wright and Jordy, both tall guys like me, also prefer tri-fins.
If you want the most out of your board you have to drop dollars on fins if you don't your going to hold your surfing back from what it could be some dudes will spend more on fins then they did on their board
Kahele Koki that's bs a good board is like 800 ish nzd and fins are 130 bucks max 300
@@jackschreuder5657 I took it as he was saying you’ll spend more on fins by having such a large fin quiver. Not that any single fin set would cost $800. 6 fin sets at $130 is just about $800 so that would make sense. I’m sure some people have that many fins sets. I easily have $600 dollars in fins right now.
Hey mate great video again. What ride number would the Channel islands FRP fins come in at do you think? I really like them in my mini.
Cheers on the props for this review. The FRP will land in the Balanced 4-7 range on the Ride Number Scale. I don't know the exact number but I spoke with John from Futures and he told me they are in the 4-7 range.
Wow that surprises me.To me they feel substantially more flexible then the honeycomb. Maybe closer to the 7 side of things. Also did you notice the FRP lge fins are slightly smaller (less rake) then the Futures AM2 honeycomb? Could you check and see if the Tech 1 are also slightly smaller for me as I have to order from the states to Australia and it's pretty expensive. I'd prefer them slightly smaller. I found this out by putting them against each other not by reading dimensions.
Also the fibreglass AM1's I bought are a different size to the honeycomb AM1. The sides are slightly larger with more rake and the rear has less rake then the honeycomb. I found this quite interesting as the specs on the site are the same. The fibreglass ones are my go to fin. I just love them in all types of waves and boards
That is very interesting and I will check this out and get back to you after I measure them at home later. Hang tight..... Thanks!
I checked my Large FRP by comparing them to my AM2 Tech Flex, AM2 RTM Tech 1, and my RTM Tech 2 and they are all the exact same size. I only checked the side fins but they were perfectly the same. Not sure why yours are different.
Haha my FRP are exactly the same as 1 set of futures AM2's and different to another set of the same exact fin. So one of my future fins sets is slightly bigger than the other. About an extra 1ml of base and an extra 1ml of rake. The rest of the fin is identical. Oh well a bit more drive in one set haha. It's the same with the fibreglass AM1's. The fin is the same basically but the fibreglass has an extra 1ml of rake on the sides and less 1.5 ml on the rear. That's the same with both sets of fibreglass. It doesn't bother me I just find it interesting. I didn't expect the tech 2's to be so different though. They really are a different template altogether compared to the futures AM1. I'm pretty excited to try them out tomorrow. I'd just like to know if they are meant to be that way. Thanks for taking up your time to answer by the way. I really appreciate it
hi noel im confused, john said more stiff more speed control, more flex more speed acceleration?doesn't it supposed to be the opposite? stiffer=faster?
ben tr When a fin is flexing it will propel you out of a turn, because the fin will go back to its normal shape. A stiffer fin will not flex and therefore not increase your speed through your turns. A stiff fin will be predictable on your turns and give you more control. Small waves I like a little flex in my turns for the extra speed through turns... more powerful waves I like a stiffer fin for control and predictability in my turns.
Noel, broken record, but nothings close to your reviews. Have you used Future's Ando Blackstix? Curious how they compare to the F8 Blackstix. Would be used in a 5'11" Sampler (31.6L). Have tried by go to fins, AM2's, but too stiff/flat feeling. Recently tried Roberts Gen large fins, big improvement, but feel a bit "pivoty" vs "flowy" on turns. I'm 5'11", 175lbs. Also, thinking maybe the AM1 Blackstix but want drive in smallish surf.
Thanks
Thanks for the props on the show!!! I have the Ando Blackstix but I have not ridden them much. I will be doing a review on them over this Summer. I don't recommend the AM1 Blackstix because they are in Medium for you and I. You wont get the drive you are looking for. I wish they would do the AM2 in Blackstix. I am going to mention that to the Folks at Futures this week.I recommend the F8 Blackstix and the Ando's. One of my friends has the Ando's in Blackstix and loves them in small waves. Let me know what you choose and how they go. Cheers!!!
Thanks for the quick reply and feedback. From reading various post on different websites, including Futures' site, I see a lot of comments about wanting a Blackstix AM2. Hopefully you push them over the edge:)
I surf Fcs 2. Got a board futures. I like the blue large merrics so those are futures am2? I like those in small waves as they fast and can slide when leaned on. What would a accelerator style fin be? I like the extra hold in bigger surf driving off the bottom without fear of losing traction and speed. What's the future equivalent. It's for a lost driver. I'm going 2 fin quiver for now
101unz Yes AM2 is the Large Futures. I have not tried the Accelerator fins yet in the FCSII range but I like the JJF Tech Flex in Futures when it gets bigger.
Are the fcs 2 am2s are more like the honeycomb or the techflex? which are better you think in 3-6 foot wally surf for turning, with barrels not that often.
101unz They are Honeycomb. I like the Honeycomb better in 3-6’ surf.
101unz The Techflex are too stiff for me unless it’s 6’+
Hello I do have a question thats been a bit of a hassle to find an answer to.. Would a 165 lb surfer want to ride a large set fin for any reason? My question being I have been riding the Medium Jordy fins and am looking for something with a bit more drive and speed.. Would i want to up my size in fin for the drive ? or would the fin become to stiff? and if I did want to up my fin size, would you suggest upping the fin size in all of my fins, being for smaller waves vs larger waves.. Thanks a ton
Great question.... I weigh 170 and I ride Large fins 95% of the time because I want maximum drive. I only use a medium fin when the waves have some power because I am not trying to pump for speed. Anytime I have to work for speed then I am going for a Large fin especially in small waves. On another note if you get a set of Large fins I recommend a set with a smaller center fin so the board is a bit looser. The Jordy fins are all the same size... the center fin on most sets of Futures Fins have a smaller center fin and Jordy's are one set that does NOT have a shorter center fin. I recommend the CI AM2's... they are really close to the Jordy fins but they have a smaller center fin. Cheers!!!
Surf n Show Reviews Thanks man I really appreciate it
Surf n Show Reviews Also what is your take on blackstix? The last pair I rode were mediums, sometime ago, I wasn't too crazy about them but was thinking maybe a different size would do it for me... since they're supposed to be "springy"? What's your thoughts CI Am2 vs L blackstix F8.. I'm also willing to sub a medium blackstix fin for the large to make the to more comparable.... looking for the most drive, speed, and response
Your Blackstix should be size Large and they are for small waves. You will get speed from the wide base and the spring will come from the construction. I love the F8 Blackstix for small waves. The AM2's are good 2-6+ as they have a Medium Flex pattern. For me it's not either AM2's or Blackstix you should have both. I would sell you Medium Blackstix if you still have them and I would consider revamping your fin quiver. One set of Medium fins for bigger days (Jordy Medium) or John John's in Medium. Then I would get 1 set of AM2's and a set of Large Blackstix. The Jack Freestone Blackstix look gooed too.
Surf n Show Reviews thanks a ton! That too was my thinking I just wanted to be sure before I make some fin purchases . Very helpful reviews and advice. Can't wait for more reviews! Thanks again!
hey noel love your channel !
I am 140 lbs and I just got sharpeye Disco inferno 23.3 volume. I feel the board is a little to small for me and not fast enough. what fins would you recomand to try ? now I have blackstix f4 small.
thanks a lot
djpipe1 Glad you like the show... I recommend the AM1 BlackStix 3.0. This is a Medium fin and it will maximize drive for you in that board for two reasons. Bigger fin base, and the high flex pattern will give you bursts of speed in and out of turns. Cheers!!!
Surf n Show Reviews got'em !!! thanks a lot the surfboard is more in control !
djpipe1 Epic!!!! Cheers
hey Noel !!! really good info !!! i would like to know your opinion ...
im riding a CI B&W in 5"9 stock dims .im an experience surfer weighting 143p
the thing is i feel the board a bit stiff ...should i try some smaller fin set S .Currently riding Futures fins in size M ...thank you so much !
Glad you like the show!! You could try a couple of things to loosen it up. First what Futures fins are you riding so I know what kind of flex they have? Do you have a set of small fins?
Hey Noel !!! thanks for the quick reply !!!...right now i surfed the board with my Shapers fins AM1 honey comb ...i don't know if you have them in the USA ...!? As for FUTURES FINS i was looking into the JJF in small !!???i guess ,the thing is that with my weight i fall into the S&M ...cheers
...Noel !! Im riding my board with "Future Fins system" single tab of course ...Not actually Future fins ...:) as you know there are lots of brands using the same single tab ...
Joana Dâmaso I do have a set of the Shapers series and I like them too. The John John S sound good. I was thinking you could try a small center fin with your medium side fins to loosen the board up a bit. If you have to buy a new set then the Small John John's would be good for your B&W.
Thanks Noel !!!and keep up with these awesome reviews !!!!
by the way my name is Bruno ....im using my wives youtube account
...Cheers from Portugal
So Im 6'5" 215-220, should I ever use anything smaller than AM2? Thats pretty much my only used fin right now in Honeycomb and Techflex. If I understand correctly, I would use the Honeycomb in everyday surf and the Techflex when its really pumping?
Great question.... and I would say you are correct in the way you are using the fins you mentioned. I would also suggest trying the AM1 Tech 2 which is a medium fin when the waves start pumping if you are ridding a step up. The theory behind this is you want the rail, tail, and fins to work together and a medium fin will help you control the speed and allow your rails to sit down through your turns. The large fin will generate too much speed and create lift which will disengage the rail and have a tendency to slide out in turns.
Interesting, I will give that a try. When its overhead Im usually on a 6'8 or 6'9 rounded pin and Am2. Which material is tech2 I cant seem to find it on their site.
Perfect... give it a try and let me know how it goes!
When you say Tech 2 which are you referring to? Is that the same as techflex?
AM1 RTM Tech 2 is the newest CI fin with the carbon strips. It's a 2.5 on the Ride Number system. Great fin and you can only buy it on the CI website at the moment. You can also try a Techflex in Medium....
Noel, the new style I have noticed alot lately is a smaller back fin than the two sides. What conditions and/ or boards would this be ideal for. For instance, why wouldn't the surfer just use more flexible fins if they want less traction? (love your channel) Cheers!!
trippenspence A smaller center Fin will allow the tail to release better in your turns. The shallower the Fin depth the more release you will get.
Using more flexible fins will cause more spring in and out of turns but that does not mean they will release easier off the top. When the waves have a bit more power a flexible Fin set will have a tendency to slide out,.
Consider a set of Fiberglass Fins (the stiffest material) with a small center fin, you have great stability in your turns and good release off the top. I hope this helps.
Surf n Show Reviews I want what you have just explained about stiff fins. What would you suggest in the large fcs2 range?
Any thoughts on Honeycomb vs Alpha? Pros and cons? for an all round fin
Luke Smidmore The Alpha is lighter and feels roughly the same flex on Medium size compared to the Honeycomb. However the Large Alpha has a bit more flex than the HC so in smaller waves I noticed more spring in and out turns, but when the waves had more power I noticed a little inconsistency in my turns. I only noticed the inconsistency on the F8 Alpha when the waves were over 4+. I like the F6 Alpha (Medium) roughly the same in my HPSB. Cheers!!!
So im surfing at a beach break and its about 1-4ft regularly and i ride a medium fin (I ride a 5'6 Sampler). The Alpha seems like a good option?
Luke Smidmore what is your weight
Surf n Show Reviews 60 - 65 kg not sure exactly
I think you will like the F6 Alpha fins. Super light and consistent like the Honeycomb.
maybe turn down the guitar during an interview so we can hear better?
Scott Graeber Ok sorry I thought it was down low enough. Next time!!! Cheers
I ride a 5 7" Sci-Fi, I noticed with my medium performers I had trouble getting sent down the line, so I'm riding Mick Fannings larges, but now that I'm getting into big turns and sweeps I'm starting to lose power after a turn or two, Should I consider a set of speed generating fins? Weight 155lbs.
Justin can you tell me what you mean by losing power after a couple of turns or two? Do you find it hard to turn the board? I need a little more info from your comment.
I can turn the board fine into turns, but after one or two deep carves my board slows down and i lose the rest of the wave.
Justin Does it only happen with this board and fin combo? Just curious if this happens on your other boards?
On my old longboard I wasnt doing this sort of stuff (or learning,) Ive ridden this set up for about 6 months now which its quick down the line, and on riding the wave; but I think my problem is Im not throwing the board sideways on the lip of the wave, normally it's in the top of the body. Is that what's slowing my board down so much?
Justin A little hard to tell but it sounds like a technique issue. I wish you had some video I could look at. Sorry I can't be more help.
Could have touched on quad set ups
Hugh Jarman Maybe on the next fin show. I am sure we will be doing another one. Thanks for the comment.
Great video though!! :) I had some tech flex am2 large fins in my rear swallow tail quad and it went really good in the bigger stuff but was finding it hard to get release, so just got the new Hayden shapes rear fins which have less rake hoping they give me a different feel!
Hugh Jarman I am sure they will feel different. More pivot and speed!!!!
yea thats what i am hoping for as we are going into summer now in Sydney!!! Recently subbed enjoying your channel :)
Hugh Jarman Great thanks!!!
anyone tried the blackstix rob machado?
fishskulls76 They are pretty good in small waves. They have good flex so they make your small wave boards super lively.
thanks bro, what do you think compared to the futures t1 twin with trailer for small waves?
fishskulls76 I like the T1 Twin Fin plus trailer for small waves but they don't work for all board types. I recommend trying them in your Groveler because you never know.... trying stuff is how you stumble into something great.
The T1 is one of my favorite 2+1 set ups for sure.
Fcs vs futures video plz
Kawaihoa Loui Not sure we will do a review like this yet.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 This would be an awesome review. Lots of honesty required of course but isn't it the goal of the show ? a third unbaised opinion for the surf community by the surf community :)
Paul James Yes...