My girlfriend and I were there that night. Great night! On a side note, I am amused at how many Gold city videos on RUclips the comments mention how great of a bass singer Tim is. As if no bass singer in SG history was/is as good as he is. Let it go, people! There are other good bass singers out there, including Bill Lawrence. And he showed it in this video.
+Darrell Schrock I've given some thought to what constitutes a "great" bass singer, and why some are considered "great" while others who can sing just as low and just as smoothly get little or no recognition. I think it's because people associate greatness with more than just the quality of the voice. Either consciously or subconsciously they evaluate a singer's full history: how long in the business, how many hit songs, how many #1 songs, how many songs they can remember that feature that singer, etc. Tim Riley is correctly considered one of the greats because of his string of successes with Gold City going back to the early 80s. Bill Lawrence, from a pure quality standpoint, is every bit as good as Tim, IMO. He just doesn't have the notoriety because he lacks the history of hits. Other bass singers are also as good, but because they are seldom featured on songs they don't get the recognition. One notable exception is Jeff Chapman. The Kingdom Heirs wisely showcase his ability on a regular basis, and by the time he's Tim's age he'll be considered one of the all time greats.
+Darrell Schrock I've given some thought to what constitutes a "great" bass singer, and why some are considered "great" while others who can sing just as low and just as smoothly get little or no recognition. I think it's because people associate greatness with more than just the quality of the voice. Either consciously or subconsciously they evaluate a singer's full history: how long in the business, how many hit songs, how many #1 songs, how many songs they can remember that feature that singer, etc. Tim Riley is correctly considered one of the greats because of his string of successes with Gold City going back to the early 80s. Bill Lawrence, from a pure quality standpoint, is every bit as good as Tim, IMO. He just doesn't have the notoriety because he lacks the history of hits. Other bass singers are also as good, but because they are seldom featured on songs they don't get the recognition. One notable exception is Jeff Chapman. The Kingdom Heirs wisely showcase his ability on a regular basis, and by the time he's Tim's age he'll be considered one of the all time greats.
+Limozine I agree about how people associate greatness with more than just voice quality. If you want to hear the best bass singer you've never heard of, check out videos of the 3rd Row Boys. They are from Indianapolis. Their bass singer, Brandon Tiek, is awesome.
Bill is not that bad, Tim is just that good! no schooling going on just good singing. look at thir faces and all i see is the love of God and the love for each other
In my case, I'm just a regular baritone, normally bottoming out at F#2, but when I have a cold, I can usually hit an E2 or Eb2. However, there was one chest cold I had last fall that had me up coughing all night, and the following morning, I could hit a thundering C2. That's the only time I ever wished a cold could last. I enjoyed being a bass for those two days.
Same here (in reference to being a regular Baritone. I used to be a Tenor, but dropped to Baritone as the years went by. I'm like you...when I get a cold, I can definitely sing some of the mid to lower notes on the Bass scale. My voice is lower, too, after a good night's sleep...for awhile, anyway. Other than that, I'm usually bottoming out at a G or an A, as you head down the Bass scale. I love being a Baritone, though, and have known how to harmonize from about the time I was 6 or 7 years old. I started doing that at a really young age, back when I used to go to a little Assembly of God Church in Harrisonburg, Virginia. As I grew older, I sang in High School, and sang in our School's Co-ed group. I somehow made it to our District 5 Regional Chorus 3 times, once as a Tenor, and twice as a Baritone. God's been good to me, in blessing me with a good singing voice...now, if I could just find a good Gospel Group that needs a Baritone...hmm.....
@@ronaldshank7589 To update you on my original comment from 7 years ago, I am approaching 25, and my voice now typically bottoms out at E2, although occasionally I have an Eb2. In the morning, I wake up with a D2, and occasionally a C#2. My dad was a low tenor as a young man, but he is now 56, and a high baritone. When he has a cold, his voice is indistinguishable from mine. I have a feeling that my voice will have darkened to a melodious bass-baritone like my grandfather's by the time I am my dad's age.
Bill's actually good, and he sounds great with the group here. Plus, you can tell he loves worshiping through singing bass and that he's having the time of his life on this song. I do think his lower notes sound a bit as if he were pushing his voice to get down that low. With guys like Richard Sterban, JD, Tim Riley, and George Younce, they sound so relaxed 99% of the time even with their lowest notes, they could probably sing them in their sleep. Still, Bill was a good replacement.
BTW, in the first video, you'll have to go to the end to hear the Ab1. His microphone seems like it was quieter in that video than in the newer one, but even with that, the amount of audible pitch in both of the videos on the low notes is pretty close, and over "several decades" as that voice teacher said. I think if Tim was frying, he wouldn't have had any tone 30 or 40 years ago. Yes, his voice has improved, but there's always been tone in his low notes.
It doesn't matter. Live albums are still edited in the studio. Trust me, I know. I work for a studio, and sing for a group. Every vocal recorded at a live concert can be corrected with a punch in, pitch correction, volume boost, etc. Just because it's a Live album, doesn't mean it's "Live" throughout the whole project.
Not that they're Gospel, of course, but I remember, back in 1975, when the Kiss album, Alive, came out. The live performance was bad enough in spots, that they had to take it back to the studio, and "Doctor up" the songs, so that it sounded right. That album went on to become Kiss's best selling album, with over 8,000,000 copies sold, and that was as of several years ago. Not promoting that kind of music, just telling you what happened.
Not that it matters, when Bill takes it down the at the end of the second time in, he starts going down and takes the mic away from his mouth but a bass voice is still singing,I’m guessing Tim. I still love it.
Tim usually doesn't push, especially in the way you're talking about. The technique Tim uses creates a lot of projection. If you've heard him speak, to be honest, you really haven't heard what he can do. He can sing incredibly loud without a mic. I've heard him do it. But he's not really doing it by pushing. He just places his tone properly and pushes a lot of air through. He (almost) never strains his throat muscles. He just tightens them enough to close off his vocal chords and make a tone.
Also, I talked to Tim after a Gold City concert and besides the fact that he said he didn't hit a note unless he could sing it for real, he said that he was able to sing (not fry, SING) a low C at age 14. Plus, check this video out: watch?v=-4OJGR5v8Ag Now, watch this: watch?v=1cmVS_fMUG4 Ab1's in both videos. The tone quality in those notes is pretty darn close between both vids, and they were filmed 30 years apart, so it looks to be that Tim is really singing, not just frying masterfully.
@GamingDrummer89 I had misheard the voice teacher. He actually said that Tim's Ab1 was most certainly mixed voice, because it had a much clearer tone without an EQ boost than Bill's fried one did with a boost, but that the higher harmonics of the note were too prominent for it to have been full voice. But his full voice definitely goes down to around A1 so this is a mere half-step lower.
@GamingDrummer89. I showed this video to my cousin's voice teacher, who has taught voice for 30 years, and he says they are both indeed frying. He also said that when you've been singing bass for several decades like these guys, there is a pretty good chance that your fry will have far more tone and precision than more obvious fryers like Eric Bennett or Tim Duncan.
I think that last clip you posted a link to was during his recovery from a cold or the flu or something. I remember watching one clip where he wasn't even able to hit the G1 in full voice and he had to try again. When he did, it sounded very forced. When I read the comments on that video some of the people said they asked Tim about why that happened and he said that he was getting over an illness. I think the last clip you referred me to was around the same time period. (continued)
@BnCSGMusic you're right. upon further listening of this video I realize that he's actually pretty good. I was thinking for some reason he was frying the lower notes.
I'd be curious to know this about that vocal teacher....how low did he say it's possible to go without fry? I think the reason he thinks they're frying here might be because he's skeptical of the abilities of a basso profundo. Not trying to make accusations, I just want to know how that voice teacher arrived at the conclusion he did. My voice has gone as low as C2 in full voice during the day before, and I'm just a standard bass, so an Ab1 should be well within Tim and Bill's reach.
Yes, I asked Tim about that very same note, and it was funny because at first he didn't know what I meant by "vocal fry". So when I showed him what I meant, he said "OH NO, I can't stand that!". lol
Something I have indeed noticed about Tim's voice is that below A1, there seems to be slightly less tone present in his voice. For example, watch this: watch?v=iV1-qR4B9mQ - Go to 3:40 and listen as he descends to A1. Then watch this: watch?v=m3th_32HdHg - Go to 1:25 and listen to his descent do G1. As you can tell by the tone, he's not frying it, but it's less "bass-y" than the A1. I think what's happening is that Tim is comfortable down to A1, but below that he pushes a little. (continued)
@@dennislittle3181 RUclips didn't used to allow full links to be posted in comments back when I made that post. Here's the full links: ruclips.net/video/iV1-qR4B9mQ/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/m3th_32HdHg/видео.html
(continued from last post) Just as an example, I can comfortably go to about a G2 or F#2 (in other words, I can project it somewhat). However, I can push my modal range to go lower down to about D2, though those notes don't project as much.
@@ronaldshank7589 Wow, the comment you replied to is pretty old, haha. I'm not a singer, but if I was, I'd probably be somewhere between Bass and Baritone. Also, since finding out more about how the voice works (mine as well as others'), what I said about being able to comfortably go to F#2 before going lower, below that point I start to get a little bit of fry mixing in with my chest voice, and more of that starts to come in as I push lower. I don't know if that fry can be eliminated with training, but I think once anybody pushes down to as low as they can go the normal way (i.e. just lowering or pushing your singing voice down), there's bound to be some fry mixing in there. It's still singing at that point, but it's mixed voice rather than just full chest.
Neither of them are frying here actually. There's an apparent tone to both of their lower registers that isn't achieved with vocal fry. Plus, I've talked to Tim and he said he doesn't try to hit notes outside of his normal vocal register. One bass singer in Gospel who fries quite a bit is Eric Bennett from Triumphant Quartet. You might want to listen to him to get a good impression of what vocal fry actually is. Not to diss on Eric or anything, but he does fry quite a lot.
Did Jeff used to sing for Gold City? I didn't even know! And personally i think Chris is really amazing, but i have to admit I have heard little from him but what I've heard was great. But aaron gets the job done for now...
Now Tim may have pushed a little in that video, but he was having trouble finding the note. The last note on It Won't Be Long (watch?v=asnMBTablAY) is a good example to hear Tim not pushing at all. In fact he's just barely holding on to that note (on purpose, ofcourse). Tim doesn't push on the G1 in God's Building A Church (watch?v=ZrR_Cp4sIuA) either. He just sounds like he's pushing because his voice is so loud. Here is one of the rare moments where tim is pushing on a G1: watch?v=UDZJYCWP9E8
Actually the mic is in his left hand. He jerks his right hand away from the mic as if he's gaining his strength to hit his lowest note. Therefore no punch-in or volume leveling. And what studio? This is LIVE not done in a studio. Everything is mixed as it happens.
Nope. Look at the video again. Bill and Jonathan have traded places at that point. The guy on the end that jerks his mic away is Jonathan Wilburn not Bill Lawrence. Jonathan wasn't singing at that point and Bill is the one next to him with both hands on his mic honking the low note.
Here's the clip I'm talking about: watch?v=4NoC8Df6VX4 It's at about 4 minutes in. It's kinda weird that although some people's range goes lower when they have a cold, others can't reach as low as normal, lol. And those A flats in "It won't be long" are indeed amazing!
Oh, almost forgot...I'm still not sure Bill is frying here. He may be in some sort of mixed voice. I said Eric Bennett fries a lot...here's an example of him frying around an Ab1: watch?v=AXiXEfCFYBc Sometimes it can be deceptive since there are other Ab's going on in that video, but if you focus on just his voice, you can hear he's simply frying. If you focus on just Bill or Tim here, you can hear that their voices themselves are producing tone.
Raymond Lisle It’s a shame he isn’t with the group anymore. I’ve been trying to find more songs with him as a bass vocalist and he seems to have went incognito. Honestly he could’ve went down as one of the greatest if he kept singing. His low in this sounded much more powerful than even Tim’s than this. He also did a fantastic job in Blessed Assurance hitting an F sharp.
BILL IS AS CLOSE TO TIM AS TIM WILL EVER BE..BUT IT SICKENS ME HOW EVERYBODY COMPARES EACH BASS SINGER...THEY DONT GIVE A FLYING BOWL OF BUTTER WHAT YALL THINK
Tim Riley is without a doubt the #1 bass in the world. His quality is by far the best ever his quality when hitting the low notes is the best. Bill is amazing... Tim trained him haha another great is Jeff chapman but Tim still has the best quality
Nicholas Graham, the phrase "in my opinion" is missing in your post. In my opinion, BJH voice timber (speaking only) makes Riley sound like a baritone. Not only that, but he is solid like a rock. Another bass who is fuller than Tim (talking about richness, quality of voice singing), is Jim McClintock n Eric Holloway.
I've seen so many changes to Gold City's vocal lineup over the years. After the early to mid 2000s, I just lost interest in the group. Nothing's left of any of the original lineup. Oh, well...time definitely marches on...
I'm probably a bass-baritone because although I can typically get down to around Eb2 or D2 (i.e. typical bass range), it's not comfortable. In the morning I can usually get to C#2 or even C2, and there were a couple of isolated occasions early in the morning or late at night where I reached a B1. And during a period where I was actively trying to lower my voice I once got to Bb1 in the morning without vocal fry, but again, it wasn't comfortable. I actually lose my lower notes when I have a cold.
IVE SEEN MR. BILL IN CONCERT A THOUSAND TIMES HE AINT NUTN BUT GOOD!!!!!..HE TALKS LOWER THAN 99% OF THE SO CALLED BASS SINGERS OUT THERE TODAY...YOU GO MR. BILL THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TIM RILEY N BILL LAWERENCE .THEY COMPLIMENT EACH OTHER TO THE TEA
Honestly, I believe that Bill Lawrence did a much better job at concealing his vocal fry and achieving a smoother sound, and I thought Tim didn't do so hot with that. He just burped the Ab.
Straining or using a lot of tension is bad for your vocal chords. Tim would have never gotten where he is today (ability wise) had he done this. The most important thing to learn in order to sing bass like Tim is tone placement. Simply put, you want your resonance point to be the front of your face. Nasal resonance would be the proper term. Tim does this better than any other bass singer in the business. It takes a long, long time to perfect. Also remeber that depth comes with age.
Depth gets better with age. But I know of natural bass singers that just speaking, you feel the richness of their deep resonance. (ie, Rodney Britt, Issac Freeman, Big John Hall, Jim McClintock, to name a few...oh, Eric Holloway).
That vocal teacher doesn't know what he's talking about. There definitely isn't any fry going on in this video. I'm sure he is a great voice teacher with lots of experience with higher voice types. But when it comes to Southern Gospel bass singing, he doesn't have a clue. There are lots of Southern Gospel bass singers that fry, but these two don't.
Well then he must've been teaching it wrong for 30 years. There was no frying going on anywhere in the building that night. He and yourself obviously don't sing bass or even baritone to be making such a ridiculous claim.
In my opinion, you have basically two bass singers with somewhat different voice "timber" in their singing ability. Bill's voice is more rounder n fuller - depths, while Tim's, is more trained to hit lower notes, that sound as they should according to the vocal arrangement. Bill, lacks a bit when compared to Tim, however, his voice has more "pathos" than Tim's. Just because you have better control on executing your range does not makes you a better bass. If that's the case. Then Eric Holloway, beats them both at the game. Glenn Miller, the bassoon profundo from San Francisco's Male chorus beats Tim by a mile when it comes to range.
Bill Lawrence was so good. Followed him when he was with the Kellys before he took the job with BRIAN FREE AND ASSURANCE
Reminds me of Grandma Bertha Sanders and Sister Virgie Johnson!!! They sang this in my life!!! Lord bless all of us!!!
Wow Bill Lawrence sounds fantastic!
I actually see a lot of similarities between Bill & Tim, one of which is the similar richness of their voices. Bill is an excellent bass singer!
You put this on good speakers when either bill or tim goes down to the low notes everything rumbles they both good
You are so right in my opinion. Actually, I think that Tim and Jeff sound a lot alike. I still like Tim better, but Jeff is great too.
Bill is a great bass singer for sure. But I believe there was an earthquake at 4:01 when Tim hammered that low note for the first time.
Great song from a excellent group
My girlfriend and I were there that night. Great night! On a side note, I am amused at how many Gold city videos on RUclips the comments mention how great of a bass singer Tim is. As if no bass singer in SG history was/is as good as he is. Let it go, people! There are other good bass singers out there, including Bill Lawrence. And he showed it in this video.
+Darrell Schrock I've given some thought to what constitutes a "great" bass singer, and why some are considered "great" while others who can sing just as low and just as smoothly get little or no recognition. I think it's because people associate greatness with more than just the quality of the voice. Either consciously or subconsciously they evaluate a singer's full history: how long in the business, how many hit songs, how many #1 songs, how many songs they can remember that feature that singer, etc. Tim Riley is correctly considered one of the greats because of his string of successes with Gold City going back to the early 80s. Bill Lawrence, from a pure quality standpoint, is every bit as good as Tim, IMO. He just doesn't have the notoriety because he lacks the history of hits. Other bass singers are also as good, but because they are seldom featured on songs they don't get the recognition. One notable exception is Jeff Chapman. The Kingdom Heirs wisely showcase his ability on a regular basis, and by the time he's Tim's age he'll be considered one of the all time greats.
+Darrell Schrock I've given some thought to what constitutes a "great" bass singer, and why some are considered "great" while others who can sing just as low and just as smoothly get little or no recognition. I think it's because people associate greatness with more than just the quality of the voice. Either consciously or subconsciously they evaluate a singer's full history: how long in the business, how many hit songs, how many #1 songs, how many songs they can remember that feature that singer, etc. Tim Riley is correctly considered one of the greats because of his string of successes with Gold City going back to the early 80s. Bill Lawrence, from a pure quality standpoint, is every bit as good as Tim, IMO. He just doesn't have the notoriety because he lacks the history of hits. Other bass singers are also as good, but because they are seldom featured on songs they don't get the recognition. One notable exception is Jeff Chapman. The Kingdom Heirs wisely showcase his ability on a regular basis, and by the time he's Tim's age he'll be considered one of the all time greats.
+Limozine I agree about how people associate greatness with more than just voice quality. If you want to hear the best bass singer you've never heard of, check out videos of the 3rd Row Boys. They are from Indianapolis. Their bass singer, Brandon Tiek, is awesome.
@@Limozine Time is really great; I also like the late, great George Younce!
Bill is not that bad, Tim is just that good! no schooling going on just good singing. look at thir faces and all i see is the love of God and the love for each other
THERE IS NOTHING BETTER, THEN BEING THERE, GLORY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill started singing baritone! Impressive
In my case, I'm just a regular baritone, normally bottoming out at F#2, but when I have a cold, I can usually hit an E2 or Eb2. However, there was one chest cold I had last fall that had me up coughing all night, and the following morning, I could hit a thundering C2. That's the only time I ever wished a cold could last. I enjoyed being a bass for those two days.
Same here (in reference to being a regular Baritone. I used to be a Tenor, but dropped to Baritone as the years went by. I'm like you...when I get a cold, I can definitely sing some of the mid to lower notes on the Bass scale. My voice is lower, too, after a good night's sleep...for awhile, anyway. Other than that, I'm usually bottoming out at a G or an A, as you head down the Bass scale. I love being a Baritone, though, and have known how to harmonize from about the time I was 6 or 7 years old. I started doing that at a really young age, back when I used to go to a little Assembly of God Church in Harrisonburg, Virginia. As I grew older, I sang in High School, and sang in our School's Co-ed group. I somehow made it to our District 5 Regional Chorus 3 times, once as a Tenor, and twice as a Baritone. God's been good to me, in blessing me with a good singing voice...now, if I could just find a good Gospel Group that needs a Baritone...hmm.....
@@ronaldshank7589 To update you on my original comment from 7 years ago, I am approaching 25, and my voice now typically bottoms out at E2, although occasionally I have an Eb2. In the morning, I wake up with a D2, and occasionally a C#2. My dad was a low tenor as a young man, but he is now 56, and a high baritone. When he has a cold, his voice is indistinguishable from mine. I have a feeling that my voice will have darkened to a melodious bass-baritone like my grandfather's by the time I am my dad's age.
Fantastic video. I don't think I've ever seen one with Bill Lawrence.
Bill does the song very very well, Tim has a power to hit notes that's been matchless. Best bass still living.
At 3:38 it almost has a scary sound to it. When Bill says "my soul". Very awesome though.
I thought the same thing
can't help but smile watching Bill sing :-)
Gold City has been one of my favorite groups for years. This is a great song! I had never heard it before. Thanks for posting. They still sound great.
Your telling me. I think that they almost sound exactly a like.
BnCSGMusic really? In my opinion, West n McClure are the closes replica to Riley.
That's because Tim did the overdubs in the studio.
Bill's actually good, and he sounds great with the group here. Plus, you can tell he loves worshiping through singing bass and that he's having the time of his life on this song. I do think his lower notes sound a bit as if he were pushing his voice to get down that low. With guys like Richard Sterban, JD, Tim Riley, and George Younce, they sound so relaxed 99% of the time even with their lowest notes, they could probably sing them in their sleep. Still, Bill was a good replacement.
Bill and Tim make a great pair
Baixo e barítono muito bom.
BTW, in the first video, you'll have to go to the end to hear the Ab1. His microphone seems like it was quieter in that video than in the newer one, but even with that, the amount of audible pitch in both of the videos on the low notes is pretty close, and over "several decades" as that voice teacher said. I think if Tim was frying, he wouldn't have had any tone 30 or 40 years ago. Yes, his voice has improved, but there's always been tone in his low notes.
This song is on the "First Class" CD.
It doesn't matter. Live albums are still edited in the studio. Trust me, I know. I work for a studio, and sing for a group. Every vocal recorded at a live concert can be corrected with a punch in, pitch correction, volume boost, etc. Just because it's a Live album, doesn't mean it's "Live" throughout the whole project.
Not that they're Gospel, of course, but I remember, back in 1975, when the Kiss album, Alive, came out. The live performance was bad enough in spots, that they had to take it back to the studio, and "Doctor up" the songs, so that it sounded right. That album went on to become Kiss's best selling album, with over 8,000,000 copies sold, and that was as of several years ago. Not promoting that kind of music, just telling you what happened.
Not that it matters, when Bill takes it down the at the end of the second time in, he starts going down and takes the mic away from his mouth but a bass voice is still singing,I’m guessing Tim. I still love it.
Bill hands Tim his microphone when he walks up and Bill grabs one Channing had sitting on the piano.
What I’m talking about is before Tim walks onto the stage.
@@timwittkopp8031 He didn't have a microphone. That was probably the audio and video not being synced
@@TravisMSimpson Bill definitely had a microphone. He was sing bass, Tim was not on stage.
@@timwittkopp8031 I know that. Read your comment from 3 years ago and you will see why I said what I did to start with.
Tim usually doesn't push, especially in the way you're talking about. The technique Tim uses creates a lot of projection. If you've heard him speak, to be honest, you really haven't heard what he can do. He can sing incredibly loud without a mic. I've heard him do it. But he's not really doing it by pushing. He just places his tone properly and pushes a lot of air through. He (almost) never strains his throat muscles. He just tightens them enough to close off his vocal chords and make a tone.
Just listen to Bill hit the notes, and then listen to the volume and clarity on Tim when he hits his...
Also, I talked to Tim after a Gold City concert and besides the fact that he said he didn't hit a note unless he could sing it for real, he said that he was able to sing (not fry, SING) a low C at age 14. Plus, check this video out: watch?v=-4OJGR5v8Ag Now, watch this: watch?v=1cmVS_fMUG4 Ab1's in both videos. The tone quality in those notes is pretty darn close between both vids, and they were filmed 30 years apart, so it looks to be that Tim is really singing, not just frying masterfully.
Bill is every bit as good as Tim!!
Stop
I'm a huge Tim Riley fan. The man is legendary, but Bill did amazing for this song. In this particular song I prefer Bill's voice.
@GamingDrummer89 I had misheard the voice teacher. He actually said that Tim's Ab1 was most certainly mixed voice, because it had a much clearer tone without an EQ boost than Bill's fried one did with a boost, but that the higher harmonics of the note were too prominent for it to have been full voice. But his full voice definitely goes down to around A1 so this is a mere half-step lower.
great job
@GamingDrummer89. I showed this video to my cousin's voice teacher, who has taught voice for 30 years, and he says they are both indeed frying. He also said that when you've been singing bass for several decades like these guys, there is a pretty good chance that your fry will have far more tone and precision than more obvious fryers like Eric Bennett or Tim Duncan.
I think that last clip you posted a link to was during his recovery from a cold or the flu or something. I remember watching one clip where he wasn't even able to hit the G1 in full voice and he had to try again. When he did, it sounded very forced. When I read the comments on that video some of the people said they asked Tim about why that happened and he said that he was getting over an illness. I think the last clip you referred me to was around the same time period. (continued)
@BnCSGMusic you should hear his Tim Riley impression! Its hilarious!
I think you right but i think who has very smooth transitions is Rex Nelon!
@BnCSGMusic you're right. upon further listening of this video I realize that he's actually pretty good. I was thinking for some reason he was frying the lower notes.
I'd be curious to know this about that vocal teacher....how low did he say it's possible to go without fry? I think the reason he thinks they're frying here might be because he's skeptical of the abilities of a basso profundo. Not trying to make accusations, I just want to know how that voice teacher arrived at the conclusion he did. My voice has gone as low as C2 in full voice during the day before, and I'm just a standard bass, so an Ab1 should be well within Tim and Bill's reach.
@bassman3294 He's not lip synching. They either leveled out his volume in the studio, or he did a punch-in.
@codykokinda Obviously Bill is good, if he was handpicked by Tim himself.
Yes, I asked Tim about that very same note, and it was funny because at first he didn't know what I meant by "vocal fry". So when I showed him what I meant, he said "OH NO, I can't stand that!". lol
Something I have indeed noticed about Tim's voice is that below A1, there seems to be slightly less tone present in his voice. For example, watch this: watch?v=iV1-qR4B9mQ - Go to 3:40 and listen as he descends to A1. Then watch this: watch?v=m3th_32HdHg - Go to 1:25 and listen to his descent do G1. As you can tell by the tone, he's not frying it, but it's less "bass-y" than the A1. I think what's happening is that Tim is comfortable down to A1, but below that he pushes a little. (continued)
Where is these videos your talking about. 3v=iv1-gR4B9mQ. Where the heck are they ? How can a normal person hear these ?
@@dennislittle3181 RUclips didn't used to allow full links to be posted in comments back when I made that post. Here's the full links: ruclips.net/video/iV1-qR4B9mQ/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/m3th_32HdHg/видео.html
(continued from last post) Just as an example, I can comfortably go to about a G2 or F#2 (in other words, I can project it somewhat). However, I can push my modal range to go lower down to about D2, though those notes don't project as much.
Would you consider yourself to be a Bass, or a Baritone, or kinda on the line between both singing positions? Just curious.....
@@ronaldshank7589 Wow, the comment you replied to is pretty old, haha. I'm not a singer, but if I was, I'd probably be somewhere between Bass and Baritone. Also, since finding out more about how the voice works (mine as well as others'), what I said about being able to comfortably go to F#2 before going lower, below that point I start to get a little bit of fry mixing in with my chest voice, and more of that starts to come in as I push lower. I don't know if that fry can be eliminated with training, but I think once anybody pushes down to as low as they can go the normal way (i.e. just lowering or pushing your singing voice down), there's bound to be some fry mixing in there. It's still singing at that point, but it's mixed voice rather than just full chest.
what do yall think about bill as gc's new bass singer?
So you've noticed too Jim!!!! He is gonna be and almost already is, Tim's double...
@mustanghammer Yup, he is like Guy Smiley!! Happy!!
Neither of them are frying here actually. There's an apparent tone to both of their lower registers that isn't achieved with vocal fry. Plus, I've talked to Tim and he said he doesn't try to hit notes outside of his normal vocal register. One bass singer in Gospel who fries quite a bit is Eric Bennett from Triumphant Quartet. You might want to listen to him to get a good impression of what vocal fry actually is. Not to diss on Eric or anything, but he does fry quite a lot.
What is up with Tim Riley winking his eye and the bass getting louder while bill Lawrence doing the same thing
Did Jeff used to sing for Gold City? I didn't even know! And personally i think Chris is really amazing, but i have to admit I have heard little from him but what I've heard was great. But aaron gets the job done for now...
Now Tim may have pushed a little in that video, but he was having trouble finding the note. The last note on It Won't Be Long (watch?v=asnMBTablAY) is a good example to hear Tim not pushing at all. In fact he's just barely holding on to that note (on purpose, ofcourse). Tim doesn't push on the G1 in God's Building A Church (watch?v=ZrR_Cp4sIuA) either. He just sounds like he's pushing because his voice is so loud. Here is one of the rare moments where tim is pushing on a G1: watch?v=UDZJYCWP9E8
Actually the mic is in his left hand. He jerks his right hand away from the mic as if he's gaining his strength to hit his lowest note. Therefore no punch-in or volume leveling. And what studio? This is LIVE not done in a studio. Everything is mixed as it happens.
Bill is holding his in his right hand.
I AGREE!!!
Nope. Look at the video again. Bill and Jonathan have traded places at that point. The guy on the end that jerks his mic away is Jonathan Wilburn not Bill Lawrence. Jonathan wasn't singing at that point and Bill is the one next to him with both hands on his mic honking the low note.
Tim!!!!
who is the tenor in this lineup ?
Steve Ladd. Currently sings with the old paths quartet.
Who is the bass guitar player?
Adam Borden
Here's the clip I'm talking about: watch?v=4NoC8Df6VX4 It's at about 4 minutes in. It's kinda weird that although some people's range goes lower when they have a cold, others can't reach as low as normal, lol. And those A flats in "It won't be long" are indeed amazing!
By the way, does anybody know what Bill Lawrence is doing now?
He sings with the Diplomats
the only thing that spoiled the song was in the end, the first tenor (got very high)
Oh, almost forgot...I'm still not sure Bill is frying here. He may be in some sort of mixed voice. I said Eric Bennett fries a lot...here's an example of him frying around an Ab1: watch?v=AXiXEfCFYBc Sometimes it can be deceptive since there are other Ab's going on in that video, but if you focus on just his voice, you can hear he's simply frying. If you focus on just Bill or Tim here, you can hear that their voices themselves are producing tone.
@BassFan09 Nobody is better than George Younce. Tim is a close second though. The number three spot belongs to Jeff Chapman.
I think by the time Bill Lawrence is Tim Riley's age, he'll be even better than Tim is! His voice is already just as rich.
Raymond Lisle It’s a shame he isn’t with the group anymore. I’ve been trying to find more songs with him as a bass vocalist and he seems to have went incognito. Honestly he could’ve went down as one of the greatest if he kept singing. His low in this sounded much more powerful than even Tim’s than this. He also did a fantastic job in Blessed Assurance hitting an F sharp.
Bill was chest tim was using fry
BILL IS AS CLOSE TO TIM AS TIM WILL EVER BE..BUT IT SICKENS ME HOW EVERYBODY COMPARES EACH BASS SINGER...THEY DONT GIVE A FLYING BOWL OF BUTTER WHAT YALL THINK
I miss Bill, he was really good.
But didn't you just compare them?
Tim Riley is without a doubt the #1 bass in the world. His quality is by far the best ever his quality when hitting the low notes is the best. Bill is amazing... Tim trained him haha another great is Jeff chapman but Tim still has the best quality
Nicholas Graham, the phrase "in my opinion" is missing in your post. In my opinion, BJH voice timber (speaking only) makes Riley sound like a baritone. Not only that, but he is solid like a rock. Another bass who is fuller than Tim (talking about richness, quality of voice singing), is Jim McClintock n Eric Holloway.
Sure hate to hear that Steve has left Gold City.
I've seen so many changes to Gold City's vocal lineup over the years. After the early to mid 2000s, I just lost interest in the group. Nothing's left of any of the original lineup. Oh, well...time definitely marches on...
I'm probably a bass-baritone because although I can typically get down to around Eb2 or D2 (i.e. typical bass range), it's not comfortable. In the morning I can usually get to C#2 or even C2, and there were a couple of isolated occasions early in the morning or late at night where I reached a B1. And during a period where I was actively trying to lower my voice I once got to Bb1 in the morning without vocal fry, but again, it wasn't comfortable. I actually lose my lower notes when I have a cold.
IVE SEEN MR. BILL IN CONCERT A THOUSAND TIMES HE AINT NUTN BUT GOOD!!!!!..HE TALKS LOWER THAN 99% OF THE SO CALLED BASS SINGERS OUT THERE TODAY...YOU GO MR. BILL THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TIM RILEY N BILL LAWERENCE .THEY COMPLIMENT EACH OTHER TO THE TEA
3:40💪😁
Bill beat Tim in the low note bill is amazing
When he blessed my soul gold city tim riley bass singer chris west bass singer Aaron McCune bass singer Barry Scott bass singer
Honestly, I believe that Bill Lawrence did a much better job at concealing his vocal fry and achieving a smoother sound, and I thought Tim didn't do so hot with that. He just burped the Ab.
They both sound like bullfrogs. 😄
Bill could get that real low( my soul ) out tim couldn't
Tim Riley is so much better!!!
He is a one of a kind bass!
Excellent Bass vibrato!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Straining or using a lot of tension is bad for your vocal chords. Tim would have never gotten where he is today (ability wise) had he done this. The most important thing to learn in order to sing bass like Tim is tone placement. Simply put, you want your resonance point to be the front of your face. Nasal resonance would be the proper term. Tim does this better than any other bass singer in the business. It takes a long, long time to perfect. Also remeber that depth comes with age.
Depth gets better with age. But I know of natural bass singers that just speaking, you feel the richness of their deep resonance. (ie, Rodney Britt, Issac Freeman, Big John Hall, Jim McClintock, to name a few...oh, Eric Holloway).
And Peter Rivera. A guy I sang with in my teens.
No but i have figured out that he might not be the best
That vocal teacher doesn't know what he's talking about. There definitely isn't any fry going on in this video. I'm sure he is a great voice teacher with lots of experience with higher voice types. But when it comes to Southern Gospel bass singing, he doesn't have a clue. There are lots of Southern Gospel bass singers that fry, but these two don't.
Well then he must've been teaching it wrong for 30 years. There was no frying going on anywhere in the building that night. He and yourself obviously don't sing bass or even baritone to be making such a ridiculous claim.
I just think it's funny. As bad of a bass as Bill Lawrence is, to have Tim Riley come up and school him at bass must have been a bit embarrassing.
Bill did much better than Tim in this video.
In my opinion, you have basically two bass singers with somewhat different voice "timber" in their singing ability. Bill's voice is more rounder n fuller - depths, while Tim's, is more trained to hit lower notes, that sound as they should according to the vocal arrangement. Bill, lacks a bit when compared to Tim, however, his voice has more "pathos" than Tim's. Just because you have better control on executing your range does not makes you a better bass. If that's the case. Then Eric Holloway, beats them both at the game. Glenn Miller, the bassoon profundo from San Francisco's Male chorus beats Tim by a mile when it comes to range.