History-Makers: Plato
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- Опубликовано: 22 ноя 2024
- For the best experience, project this video onto the wall of a cave.
SOURCES & Further Reading:
“Five Dialogues” by Plato, translation and introduction by G. M. A. Grube - “Introductory Readings in Ancient Greek and Roman Philosophy, Second Edition”, edited by C. D. C. Reeve and Patrick Lee Miller - “Plato Vol I: Euthyphro Apology Crito and Phaedo” from Loeb Classical Library, Edited and Translated by Chris Emlyn-Jones and William Preddy.
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: Plato plato.stanford...
I also have a degree in Classical Studies, specifically in “Classics and Philosophy”
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Socrates being an SCP that could be anywhere in Athens but is more likely to appear when you think of him is hilarious.
The trick is that you tend to notice something more often when you're thinking about it. In this case, you're more likely to notice the presence of Socrates when thinking about him, at which point he'd turn and lock eyes with you. Then it's too late.
Item #: SCP-399BC
Object class: Neutralized
Description: SCP-399BC denotes an anomalous humanoid being, true name "Socrates" this being did not require containment before self-neutralization. This being would walk the streets of the town of Athens philosophizing to the statements made by a certain individual it has targeted. Expressing concern, or even wariness of SCP-399BC being within earshot seems to summon it. But agents could not discern if this was factual or perceived
He's like non-genocidal Voldemort
@@mitchellblake1475 Today on _Rare Sentences_ ... XD
Incorrect. He's an SCP who appears whenever you vocalize a definite political, philosophical, ethical, or religious position. Whereupon he deconstructs your worldview, question by question, until you're left a gibbering mess on the floor.
Plato was probably the wisest featherless chicken the world had ever seen
Ayy, I still love that anecdote so much
Wasn't it a featherless chicken?
@@jacks1368
Yes, and I corrected it now
I got that reference!
It's either a "plucked chicken" or "a miserable pile of secrets."
I love how Socrates was both the father of western philosophy and also a guy so annoying that it got him executed.
I personally prefer so annoying he ended up sentencing himself to death out of stubbornness
To my limited knowledge, that's how philosophy works
It gets better because he had a chance to get out and he willingly chose not to.
"Hey Socrates could you be a little less of a pain in the ass?"
I would rather die
Them probably: “then you shall die!!!”
@@ethanstyant9704 that sounds like a common conversation with my daughter.
"The average citizen had exactly 2 fears, the war with Sparta and talk with socretes" and in that moment I drank my coffee and it came directly out my nose
I'm imagining the poor citizen having that same look on their face as the antagonists do whenever they see Lt. Columbo approaching with more questions. And yes, in my mind the part of Socrates is played by Peter Falk.
No one asked
@@balabanasireti And yet, they so graciously volunteered this information despite that. Good on them for sharing an amusing anecdote.
@@balabanasireti No one asked you either.
@Evil Laughs the name checks out 😂
Let’s not forget the most important part of Plato: that name means “broad-shouldered” and was given to him by his wrestling coach. Plato was jacked.
Can't help but picture a ripped 50yo bald guy writing on a piece of parchment, flexing a bit, and then continuing to write
Plato is basically what would happen if John Cena decided to be a world-renowned philosopher and not an actor.
Plato "the rock" Johnson
I like to imagine the quote
"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
As a response to a request for a rematch.
@@DreamingGod05 We've never actually seen John Cena and Plato in the same room together.
Socrates was like "Plato, my best pupil. You gotta make sure these Athens can never truly get rid of me." And then drank poison.
"Killing me will only make me stronger!"
@@Nuggette "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
@@apocyan "A hero cannot be defeated simply by making him die!"
"now i leave life to enter history"
Diogenes: I promise I'm not going to argue with Plato tonight
*3 drinks later*
Diogenes: Hey Plato why do you fucking hate poor people
Lies. Diogenes would never promise that.
@@TheQuote0 Fair enough
@@TheQuote0 He would, but then he would throw feces at plato because it doesn't count as arguing if you Don't speak while doing it
I'll take Diogenes over Plato and Socrates any day.
@@stevejakab274 Diogenes actually revered Socrates and despised Plato because he considered him an improper successor to Socrates' legacy, supposedly he instead held his pupil Antisthenes in high regard.
Since the name 'plato' comes from his wrestler nickname, I firmly believe that if plato ever "lost" in a philosophical debate, his retoure would be just to deck the other dude
I feel like wrestling doesn't actually include much punching.
As far as I know, no records exist of Plato punching out Diogenes, so sadly Plato probably left his wrasslin' days behind him.
It’s all fun and games until someone suplexes you in the middle of the symposium
@@Duiker36 Modern wrestling doesn't, but pankration (the form of wrestling Plato practiced) definitely did include punching, kicking, and all sorts of other techniques that wouldn't be considered "wrestling" today. Only biting and eye-gouging were forbidden.
Nah, nah, he'd be happy to "lose". He'd deck them if they were unwilling to change their mind in the face of evidence they have no counter to.
I like that Socrates wasn't just a contrarian, he legitimately just loved philosophy.
“Dude I’m genuinely curious! Why are you accusing that man of impiety? What is impiety to you?”
And on and on and on and on and on!
And Socrates would just have a good day, aware that he probably ruined the other person’s beliefs
@@idkwhattotype4704 socrates was just autistic
@@idkwhattotype4704 I’ve tried it several times and I usually just get ignored or mocked for it. Funny how when people are asked to explain their ideas, no matter how genuinely, they’d rather do anything else lol.
@@AmberMaytions Based on what I have observed, no one likes to question their own beliefs when it is prompted by someone else. Most of the time, self reflection only feels satisfying when you yourself did it.
People tend to be intimidated by people with overt driving passions and goals, and to then dress that up as annoyance and frustration is just classic ego protection
Of course, these days people who are both financially successful and highly driven and goal hungry tend to be awful people, so a certain level of prejudicial distaste is somewhat justified (adding the financially successful clause tends to filter out those unwilling to engage in behaviours like exploitation, which is the foundation of all wealth for the past… ever)
Wasn’t it Socrates’ trial where the margin to have him executed was larger than the margin that found him guilty? Like, the margin for guilty out of a jury of 500 was something like 280-220 but the margin to kill him was 390-110? So basically they was part of that jury was like, “this man is innocent but DAMN he’s ANNOYING!” 😂😂
Edit: I checked my source, the margin to execute him was 360-140
That one particular anecdote just makes this whole thing even more incredible. People who voted for him not to get punished in the first vote flipped and voted for his death in the next one. Now that's nutty!
Kind of amazing that 140 out of 501 jurors thought it would be legit to give him his proposed "punishment" :p
@@AegixDrakan Given the proposed punishment, I'd think they could have flipped their vote in reaction to his behaviour like "Okay, he's clearly of bad faith here and don't want to accept a punishment".
In the modern judicial system, I think it would be the equivalent of contempt to court XD
I like to think it's the people that had only heard of him but never knew him
First like "Okay this guy can Not be that bad, and those aren't even real crimes this is weird"
Then after actually hearing him talk "Ok no fuck that guy"
It's because he didn't come up with a real counter offer for a punishment, once the court had already found him guilty the jurors knew he had to be punished so they voted for the actual punishment because Socrates' own suggestion was a joke
The idea that a rogue stone in the middle of the road, a suspicious looking guard, a rattling on a boat, a woman you saw in the street, or a shadow peaking from the aqueduct could be Socrates is hilarious to me. The jury decided to implement the “Socrates Nowhere” System.
Now im imagining Socrates as Majima from Yakuza
Socrates was that guy that goes around with a microphone in public, interviewing random people.
Only he was actually smart
so, he was a sovcit?
I'm now just imaging a muscular Billy Eichner or Jordan Klepper in a toga.
Unironically, yes.
Socrates: "What is a human?"
Plato: "A human is a featherless biped"
Diogenes: "Look, a chicken with the feathers plucked off, what a human, lol"
Soc & Plato: "Dude, wtf?"
What a based fatherless biped Diogenes was...
A miserable pile of secrets.
@@SaintofQuartz I mean, yes, but now I'm questioning if Diogenes would have even qualified under this definition... I mean, it's diogenes...
As a man with a philosophy degree myself, I can attest that The dialogues are some of the most fun works to read
What made them fun?
What even is fun?
Can you know something is fun while doing it or is it only after it’s finished that you call it fun?
Ironically i can remember His cave metaphor from Back in high school and it was the one Bit of philosophy i Loathed. But that was because i disliked epistemology in General and thought ethics and social theory were the "useful" philosophy. I was 18 and man, it showed. Would be interesting to read it now that im 30 and im a Bit less obnoxious 😅
@@annabeinglazy5580 Same
No one asked
@@CAP198462OH NO HES BACK
I'm absolutely SHOCKED that you haven't done Livy. Virtually 99.9% of everything we know about Rome is thanks almost exclusively to him, his style inspired generations of historians on a level rivaling Herodotus and Thucydides, and he made sure to put as much day-to-day detail in his history as he could without simply limiting himself to the actions of the major players.
TL;DR, History Makers: Livy next.
What if Livy just made it all up? Kinda sketchy having just a single source, is it not? And that source isn't even the original source, or a copy of the original, but a suppose copy of a copy of a copy etc. The earliest 'sources' we have don't even go back to the renaissance, as they somehow lost all the originals, and they also somehow lost the copies of those originals
History is just made up, and we agree on whatever narrative it is for convenience, otherwise we'd have to admit we know far less than we think we do
@pyropulse The same could be argued about Herodotus and Thucydides, both of whom are featured on this channel. Like them, Archaeology has to a good extent confirmed a lot of what Livy wrote down.
@@dorkandproudofit Archaeology has not confirmed anything that was written down. There are massive room for interpretation, and they 'fit' things to the given paradigm. For instance, battles happen everywhere; whatever they find by itself, as the pure evidence, does not tell us the story of what happened or who fought; that comes from the paradigm and narrative, of which is established via such sources as "Liv."
But if you just look at the pure evidence from archeology, we wouldn't learn a fraction of what we learn from so-called 'legit books' and 'ancient sources.'
I am in academia, I know how the process works. "We" are a modern day priestly class
@@pyropulseIXXI So... by your logic, there's literally no point in studying ANY history of ANY era on the off chance that it MIGHT all be lies.
@@dorkandproudofit No, Science by it's nature must be taken on faith, but the faithful must also hold the belief that they should also be ready to drop everything they once believed in in the face of greater evidence. Nothing is ever "Proven" in science, just a list of things we've yet to disprove.
Plato’s cave was actually where he kept all his collectors items figurines, Xbox, PC, HD TV, manga, movies and his gamer chair.
All his funko pops
Surprisingly accurate since just as the cave showcases only shadows of the real… so too do nerds need to leave the cave and touch grass from time to time.
None of his Socrates figurines had panties and all of them had correct anatomy.
@@alchemicpink2392 just like a nerd likes
And Saddam Hussein
I minored in philosophy in college. Plato's allegory of the cave still lives rent free in my mind.
Does it? Or is it just the flame casting the shadow of the allegory to the back of your mind?
You must adore West World.
Unfortunately that's the philosophy of conspiracy theorists around the world, and has caused great harm occasionally (see: Jan 6th, 2021).
The fact that OSP's version of Plato's head was accurately edited into the ancient artworks is an amazing detail.
You never cease to amaze me guys!
The man who fears only Socrates and Sparta is a man who has never met Diogenes.
To be fair, it was easier to avoid Diogenes because you could smell him from a mile away.
To be fair, Diogenes only went after the influential. If you were some random person on the street, you were (mostly) safe.
Plato did not lose his philosopher status. Unlike Pluto that lost its Planet status.
TOO SOON!!
Ufff Pluto was kicked out from the planet gang but this one will hurt the dwarf planet the most⚰
You're grounded.
@@lalitthapa101 Nah, Pluto is probably happier as one of the larger dwarf planets than the tiniest regular planet.
At least he didn't lost his status a god
We've all had that friend who is so interesting and/or opinionated that we can't help but imagine them in various situations reacting in that trademark way they do.
During philosophy class about a year ago, I found out that one of my friends, who is half greek, mom wanted to name him Sokrates. And now having learned about how Sokrates was actually like the name would've fit him so well. I had many annoying discuccions with him where he'd continue to poke holes in my perceived reality.
On a side note: My dad wanted to name me Confucius, which would've been hilarious because I am quite intrigued by his thoughts.
Do you think nepotism good actually?
Ok, since the question at the end was “why don’t we do this more often” I kinda of want to give my own personal answer as to why.
For one, I believe that the discussion, over millennia, has transformed from a method of discovering truth, to a method of showing intellectual dominance over another. Discussion using the Socratic method, especially in today’s spaces, can feel aggressive, stepping forward into someone’s personal mind to see what they think. A discussion is something that, nowadays, we like to see as a fight of words, trying to thrust your ideals on top of someone else’s, instead of trying to figure out why someone believes those ideals in the first place. That’s just a small part of it, but I think it’s a part of it.
I'll add that this isn't an "over millennia" thing, it's just the last century. Just look at how much of Renaissance and Industrial thought is documented in letters between both friends and rivals. It was, very specifically, the advent of *live-broadcast* political debate that started transforming the entire concept of debate from "collaborating in search of truth" into "convincing the audience that you're right."
I agree with this, especially with the advent of social media and the need to moralize every aspect of one's life and entertainment. It is not enough to simply disagree or dislike someone, you have to find some ethical flaw in them to justify those feelings. I've seen actual writers claim they refuse to read classical works because the 1800s author was a bigot and therefore their impact on modern literature is worthless.
Socratic discussion at its heart is supposed to be an exchange and a dialogue. Nowadays any debate is about beating the other person over the head with your opinion until they either agree or give up.
(Disclaimer, bigotry is still wrong. I'm not playing centrist here)
@@akhrageeIsn't that the point of a debate: convince you that your point is right? Can we really describe the Socratic Method as a "debate" or a "dialogue"?
Best guide i learned for determining the role of socrates in a dialog is that when plato is presented as a character it was an arguement posed by socrates. When plato is not present, socrates is being used as a character. This isnt flawless but it was the best rule of thumb i learned from my classics professors.
OMG using the Galactic Republics emblem on The Republic is pure genius! Well played Blue, well played!
Socrates, 2500 years after his death, still instills fear in the hearts of Greek students trying to mind their business
You there! Tell me at once, do you mean student Greeks or Greek-students?
@@Makaneek5060 I mean Greek (ethnicity) high schoolers, who have to put up with ancient Greek in order to get in university
@@elizatilsizoglou5946 Veeery interesting my student, now why would the youth be ashamed of their countryman who gave his all to keep a few minds in shape?
@@Makaneek5060it's more so that ancient greek is hard but also I don't think greek schools do any Plato in school so idk
@@thanasiisdi288 They 100% do in highschool. I still have lingering trauma from that and it's been almost 7 years since then.
I knew that Plato was quite possibly as jacked as Henry Cavill or Jason Momoa, but learning that Socrates was basically a teleporting nightmare was a real surprise for me.
Weren't they all jacked because the Gymnasiums were the place to socialise and discuss philosophy in Athens?
@@joshuaizly5502 But Plato was mega jacked because he was a champion belt winning wrestler in his youth. "Plato" was actually a shortening of "Platon", or "Broad", his wrestling handle that his coach gave him because he had such a wide back and strong, manly shoulders. He also was hunchbacked and had a weird, lumpy skull, hence Blue calling him a "goblin" in the video, but he was a powerful and strong goblin!
@@stewartgames6697 It's like if Dwayne Johnson became a philosophy scholar instead of an actor after retiring from wrestling but everyone still call him "The Rock."
@@stewartgames6697 oh I did not know that, thanks for the anecdote
@@foldabotZ yeah that and also imagine people in thousands of years thinking his name was Therock without understanding the meaning of the nickname or even that it is one.
Interesting that Galileo also chose the dialogue as a way to show his ideas of a heliocentric system in his writings thereby allowing the reader to draw their own conclusions as well.
Except he named the debater on the geocentric side "Simplicio" (basically "Stupid") and made him look the fool on more than one occasion. Galileo only very thinly veiled which side of the debate he thought was the correct one. That, and personally insulting the Pope, who was a personal friend and had allowed (even encouraged) him to write the book, by putting the Pope's words into Simplicio's mouth at the very end, got him into all his subsequent trouble...
Yeah, there was nothing like "draw your own conclusions". It was about science, not philosophy, and Galileo knew he was right.
@@stevejakab274 There's a difference between being right and being a dick about it.
@@stevejakab274 Galileo had no grounds to 'know' he was right because he could not answer the legitimate scientific objections to the apparent absence of the stellar parallax implied by a heliocentric model, and did not offer further justification for such a model over competing geoheliocentric models that did not have the same implications. Even among heliocentric models, Galileo's played second fiddle to Kepler's, because Galileo insisted on circular orbits even in the face of pretty substantial evidence in favour of Keplerian elliptical orbits.
I mean, the Dialogue form gives him a cover to espouse his thoughts while satisfying the censors by presenting their views in an equal standing. It's basically reading the position papers of two litigants in a court trial and the reader is the judge who decides which of the two is true and factual...
I love Socrates and Diogenes for their absolute status of being the most irritating people of their time, yet also being so influentially intelligent and persuasive that students followed them around as they accosted people over living their lives and saying stupid things within earshot.
I tend to get annoyed by the dialogues because of how many relevant ideas are left out of Socrates' "tell me something and I'll make you concede unknowns about it" method (which I mostly blame Plato's structuring for) but thinking about the way it's put here, you're exactly right: I AM thinking more critically about the work and I AM asking more questions than if it was really as straightforward as it seemed. So yeah, thank you
Wow, talk about good timing! I literally just left a video reacting to Twitter memes where a post from someone tried to use the positioning of bread to argue that a hot dog isn't a sandwich, it's a taco. They used diagrams to define different foods, one showing that having layers is what defines a cake and someone commented "Diogenes runs up to Plato holding a Big Mac and shouts "Behold! A cake!"" which had me rolling and then the very next video I see is this. Well played, Blue.
I remember in my undergrad political theory course we read the one where the man was convincing Socrates to run away from execution and we were then assigned to write a short paper about whether or not Socrates was wise to note take it (or something like that).
In the Socratic tradition I started with questioning on what is "wise" and then spent the rest of the paper trying to determine what is "wisdom" in that context that somehow got me into utilitarianism (I was in a big utilitarianism kick, and still am really). I think the main idea was that before I could answer whether Socrates was wise or not we had to define wise in the context of the relationship between law and society. I don't know, we're talking almost a decade and a half ago.
Anyway, I just remember getting an A on the paper and being informed to please not do that again and just answer the prompt as given.
Ah yes, Suicidal Socrates. That's what our class nicknamed him when we read Apology, Crito and Phaedo in Ancient Greek class. At 16-17 y/o we didn't quite appreciate the philosophy for what it wanted to teach yet and mostly just went about poking fun at how eager Socrates seemed to die.
Average Teenager.
Bro this was me with eternal recurrence I was like “what do you mean I can’t change anything then what’s even the point?” Gosh I was so ignorant probably still am
The fact that the video is named Plato yet focuses more on Socrates is just the perfect irony icing on the cake.
Ill be honest I'm not really for philosophy but this has actually made me want to read plato. The only other philosophy book I've read was "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu but that was basically Sun yelling at young princes and nobles that they can't make their men march for 15 hours with low supplies.
"If you squeeze the lever, I will turn into spaghetti. Please dont eat me, but you can have a small bite. I'm non-toxic. " -Plato
Truly inspirational ❤
Who hopes Red talks about the Myth where Hera gets beaten up by a Spartan Queen, the Myth about the Chinese Femboy defeating the four dragons, or the myth where a Aztec god was tricked into sleeping with their sister
Or the Trojan prince that enchanted ZEUS of all people, even before Apollo.
This comment will take weeks for me to fully digest and it's not even a synopsis of the actual stories
Classic Spartan
@@theanimeunderworld8338Do you mean Ganymede? Because it's not surprising at all that horny bastard Zeus would also fancy a boy (emphasis on boy and not male more broadly-the Greeks did NOT approve of grown men pursuing other grown men, but they did approve of grown pursuing minors) as well as all the women with whom he slept.
Hera got beaten up by a Spartan queen?
To this day, I still remember fondly my Intro to Philosophy class I took in college, and how absolutely obsessed the professor was with Socrates and Descartes, and how at the end of the semester he made us all watch the first Matrix movie and pause it frame by frame to point out the various references to classical philosophy in it.
A true believer is the Socratic method of being really annoying.
@@joshuasgameplays9850 I actually found it the opposite. Before the class I was never really interested in the Matrix and had no real interest or excitement for the film. That class actualy made me like and enjoy it, and then made the subsequent films all the more intolerable to me.
@@pathfindersavant3988 oh, neat.
BEHOLD! PLATO’S RUclips VIDEO!
I love how enthralled in the ideas this video is
Im probably getting the wrong impression of this video, but as a child i had a dream of writing a book that just has a ton of questions like "what is the meaning of life" and its gratifying to see that something like that already exists
I hope when we get Red's video it might be another mythical pride month video for the other mythological figures who didn't make the first cut
From Greece there's Hermaphroditus, the bi-gendered deity of love
Ganymede, who was a Trojan prince who attracted the attention of Zeus and made into the god of homosexual love and desire
The west wind Zephyros (can't remember if he was mentioned or not) was part of a love triangle with Hyacinthus against Apollo
Hestia also deserves some recognition as the oldest child of Kronos and Rhea and one of the three virgin goddesses with Artemis and Athena. She swore off love due to a very very unfortunate incident with another god and has dedicated her time to familiar happiness and stability
Same, kinda wish that she did an yearly pride video like her spooky videos
Red does have a video about Hyacinthus somewhere on the channel.
I mean, the myth of hermaphroditus isn't really the most aspirational tale, it's essentially a story of a nymph being rejected by a god and begging another god to override the nonconsent, with the externally imposed solution this second god bestowed upon them being "Okay, you're the same person now".
I want a plat-o waffles
I took would like a plat-o waffles.
@@nathanthaxton7492 too bad, I took the last plat-o-waffles.
Got 'em
@@Private-Potato How dare
@@nathanthaxton7492 I dare
Wow, I absolutely love this video about Plato! It's so fascinating to learn about the history-makers who have shaped our world. I've always admired Plato's philosophies and his concept of the Allegory of the Cave. Projecting this video onto a wall of a cave sounds like an incredible way to immerse myself in his wisdom. Thank you for sharing this insightful content!
The Galactic Republic logo was a nice touch lol
Socrates for sure one of my mentors. I probably like Alan Watts a bit more, but the idea of standing for your principles is so great. He sounds like he was a voice of reason for his time and became a martyr for his ideals. So cool.
I love History-Makers: it's such a good way to explore different genres and connect important figures from other fields of study to their historical context. I also love Plato (I started the Symposion this very day!), so I must really thank you for this wonderful gift.
Speaking as a professor of philosophy, I usually see videos around RUclips making oversimplifying or imprecise statements about these thinkers, but this video managed to be entertaining and a solid overview without my noticing any such issues. Well done.
Socrates is like that one friend who responds with every answer with "why"
I genuinely learned more from this video than my entire semester in Philo 10 class
This makes me realize that the way I truly learn is Socratic in nature. I need to discuss what I read and research with someone else. It's been like this all my life: I remember when I was studying a shitload of Japanese in Tokyo in the very early 2000s and nothing would stick if I wouldn't speak to Japanese friends at the end of the week, and then my MA and PhD theses came into form via me discussing with my mentors, rather than any other way.
I guess some things never go out of fashion.
Plato is what got me to read, first full book I ever read. The power of dialogue in communicating philosophy is something I wish was better appreciated in philosophy. Plato remains among my favorite thinkers for the truly unique and charming way in which ideas are explored. 10/10 would recommend.
It's always a good day when Blue uploads a History Makers
screenshotting this like it's a bigfoot sighting
@@paleozoey Hi Zoey how are you
@@Stoneworks you should unban my good friend myllye she did nothing wrong. xraying and ban evasion is a victimless crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111!!!!!!
Oooo… I love that reference to Hillel the Elder at the end there.
"This disheveled goblin"
Daniel Greene is Socrates confirmed
I know you probably didn't have time, but I love that Plato is remembered by his wrestling name instead of his actual name (according to Diogenes Laertius) Aristocles.
I also love the dialogues of philosophy in the Talmud and Plato's books. Something my own religion, Christianity, is *sorely* lacking and _desperately_ needs.
this is fanboying at its best, both from blue towards plato and from plato towards socrates
Plato goes impossibly hard. Highly recommend the read. I'm fanboying too.
In France we have mandatory philosophy class during the last year and Plato turned out to be one of the most interesting to study.
We're not going to talk about blue putting the star wars republic logo on a plato book at all? Also banger video as always
How else would you recognize the book? The title or author?
You've taken the bait of debate!
Yep, I recognised it too!
I came here to say this but in my heart I knew it had been said
Y'know we were taught about Socrates, Plato and Aristotle just a week ago and we're still on the topic, your video came in at the very time I needed, thank you
7:25
Love the way blue demonstrates multiple types of nerd behavior at the same time
Ever since my college days, I’ve been in fascination of philosophy. It grew even more when my history of psychology class started talking about Plato was technically the father of psychology too. I had wished I remembered more. So in other words I’m very much thankful blue that you have been covering some philosophers alongside of some famous authors/historians. Keep up the great work!
More philosophers PLEASE!!!!!! Thank you for this one! ❤️🌸
Plato: what more can be said about the greatest philosopher. Certainly a genius of his time and the next
Thanks Blue, love the History Makers Series!
Love the emblem on the Republic
That “Allegory of the Cave” reference in the description…
Great video. I had the joy of engaging in this kind of Socratic discussion in college at St John's, where they take this method and apply it to nearly all the classes. Very deep, thought provoking, and growth inducing. At the end of most Seminars, we would have this great feeling of creative uncertainty, not knowing anything firmly/fixedly, but seeing everything more clearly. I think the reason it is uncommon is that today we judge philosophers by what they sell us, ie. the stances they take, rather than how they help us improve ourselves.
So what you're saying is that Socrates was history's first "I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS" troll, and that he was So bad about it that an entire city of people decided he should die for it.
As for Plato's writing of Socrates and to the question of where the real Socrates ended and the character began... I dare say the character was there the whole time. Plato is a fanboy. His entire writing depicts his "hero" in the most "Heroic" light possible, he's basically like those really gross Kpop fans who write really, REALLY detailed fan fiction about their favorite kpop boi and what they'd like to do with them, wherein the only part of the personality in the story that matches the real person is whatever is directly portrayed by the real person, which is itself a character put on in order to gather that audience, while everything else portrayed in the writing is the writer's hero worship and wishful thinking. Seriously, you thought Dante's shitty self-insert fanfic was bad, Plato's reads like one of those twitter threads where the writer forgot that people who know them through work can read their feed and follow them and tend to get really, REALLY detailed.... grossly so.... about something they want to do with a certain celebrity or something.
@@TacComControl Oh, my God, this makes so much sense!
Plato makes a lot more sense if you know he won a crown of olive in wrestling at the olympic games so a lot of people were rightly hesitant to tell him to his face that he is wrong.
I really enjoyed reading some of the dialogues with my friends because we read them out (making it more immersive) and riffed on and/or had actual discussion on the things we were reading. A great time for any philosophy nerd
Socrates was clearly the inspiration for the Xenomorph
What? Explain your case.
Once again, this channel has taught me something important I did not know about
This is where I remind everyone Plato wrote top/bottom discourse on Achilles and Patroclus.
I studied Plato in college. The Euthyphro is one of the cornerstones of my personal philosophy and moral code. I love the socratic idea that happiness is more of a state of being than an emotion. It rings true from my perspective, as well.
The intro about Socrates had me in stitches. I still remember when I was in college and a professor had each of us write a Socratic dialogue. For a few brief days, I was thrust unprepared into the mind of Socrates and it was a horrible place to be. Like, don't get me wrong--I was kind of annoying in college. But our boy Soc? A whole 'nother level of annoying. At least in the dialogue I wrote. Still, it's fascinating how he lived on in Plato's writing, and to examine how Plato's interpretation of him changed with time.
1:00 So, something I learned back in my classics class, decades ago: Alcibiades once slept with Socrates - because in Ancient Athens, "sleeping your way to the top," was not only allowed, it was required - but complained that Socrates _never touched him once all night._ Which, for someone described as a major hottie like Alcibiades, had to be a _major humiliation!_
I recently bought the Dialogues and they're certainly very intrestring to read. Learning through Plato how people from the past, and specially Socrates analyzed life is very enriching.
Socrates was the real bane of Athens sent by the Spartans to distract them
Right around the ten minute mark Blue gives us the basis for "ask 10 rabbis get 12 answers" and the answer to why my extended family celebrates holidays by getting together in large groups to argue about everything. 😂 Would love to see a video on the Midrashic tradition.
As Eleanor Shellstrop once said, who died and left Plato in charge of philosophy?
She mentioned Aristotle, and Chidi said Plato
Socrates, if the video is to be believed.
@@shadowldrago Socrates was too busy helping Bill and Ted
7:22 love that republic
I really hope you would cover Alicibades someday since you mentioned him in the video. It would be so fun seeing you summarise the life of this absolute menace of a person in one video lol
He already has.
It's an older video though so a remake with more absolute shenaniganry would be awesome
@@shadowldrago ooh, he does! welp, thank you - looks like I have something waiting to be watched now
@@envinyatar5011 Happy to help.
Alcibiades was the most dangerous twink in history.
I’m so happy you mentioned the Midrash, it’s genuinely so interesting and is my favorite thing about studying the Torah
Wow! It's the guy that my friends thought was Mickey Mouse's dog and not a historical figure!
That's Pluto, and he's a god.
@@amehak1922 And a dwarf planet
@@pinkcowqueen it's a real planet
@@amehak1922 Astrophysics disagrees
@@pinkcowqueen astrophysics is a collection of data, it doesn't have any opinions
Damn, its awesome to see someone talking about how much of our perception of later Socrates is influenced by Plato and the intricate relationship between a static idea and an ever changing interpretation of a concept
Midrash recognitions
Midrash is basically arguments between two historical rabbi (some were the actual people and some weren’t)
You single handedly made my English homework so much easier
Nice job, Blue ❤
I love me some Plato
I've spent the last three weeks binging the ospod. So excited to be finishing it today/tomorrow.
I am a simple man, I See Plato, I click
I was so excited to see this! the Socratic dialogues were the first philosophical texts i ever read and their importance only seems to get more pronounced the more philosophy i read. Really cool stuff!
Wait... was that the Galactic Republic Symbol for on the cover of the Republic? Shout out to my Jedi/clone friends then!
I had to read Plato’s Republic (the whole kit and kaboodle) for a college philosophy course on social ethics, and while it was a long read for a class locked to a *quarter system* it was thoroughly enjoyable. Seriously, more people need to read that book.
Also I may or may not have picked up some of the disective methods to questioning and became thoroughly annoying to talk with if there was something I didn’t fully understand or agree with, but… well thems the brakes.
Socrates was just a contrarian though. The man couldn't accept an answer. And demanding that they kill him when he didn't have to die is also just contrary. Self made martyrs aren't actually martyrs
Blue please give us a Socrates history-maker episode! I’m dying to see one!
Socrates didn't write anything, so this was basically it, unless you want to compare Xenophon's Socrates (who is a quite different person from Plato's depiction).
My Mom always warned me if you're too annoying someone would kill me. Guess she heard of Plato and a city just wanting him to leave any way possible.
"The life which is unexamined is not worth living." I've heard that so many times and never knew it was Socrates.
Socrates able to teleport like Slenderman.
I was torn between rolling my eyes and basking in the glory of what humanity can be like when Blue started talking about the *real* reason why Plato is so good at the end. On one hand, the stuff about the preciousness and wisdom of leaving questions unanswered for the reader to develop their own ideas is great and all, but GODDAMNIT it's hard to ignore the instinctual hate for not having a smart or knowledgeable person tell me the answer! That's a frustration that I've felt way too much in classes where teachers believe in that kind of thing
That's kind of my criticism with the Socratic Method: it assumes that everything said is as valid as the others and checking whether those are objectively factual leads to a vicious circle . This hits hard when studying Law, yes they use the Socratic Method in their pedagogy but it drives students up the wall when certain questions that don't have any clear answer aren't answered by the professors. It's doubly frustrating when the books don't explain the answer (as some textbooks are just so convoluted and wordy that the point is just lost) which the professor, due to their experience, should have provided at least an inkling as to how Courts answer these. All it did was sow ultimately wrong interpretation of the statutes and jurisprudence...