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Back cover of Way of Kings has a whole new meaning. "One of them will destroy us", everyone assumed that was talking about Szeth but nah that's talking about Shallan.
Also Shallan could definitely use this as a truth, or as a way of becoming Odium’s Champion, having him take her pain because she thinks she caused the desolation
There's some hidden umagery in the Chanarach official art that backs up her being Shallan's mother. Look at the dais Chana is hovering above: there are multiple faces, almost nodding to the multiple personas Shallan takes on. One of these faces are obscured by a piece of fabric, almost as if it were... a Veil.
It's really funny/interesting how both of the major factors causing the true desolation may have been self defense. (A) The Parshendi taking on stormform and, (B) of course Shallan's mom
There is another (possibly) relevant mention. When Kaladin and Shallan emerge from the chasms in WoR and Navani accepts her at last Dalinar thinks that _'The mother axehound had finally emerged. Shallan was no longer an outsider, but one of Navani's clutch - and _*_Chana_*_ help the man or woman who stood between Navani and one of her own.'_ It could simply be a reference to the bravery required for such an act but it does draw a connection between Chana and motherhood as well as Shallan herself. edit - And a bit later when Shallan and Navani are talking about Jasnah during the expedition Navani says _"Chana knows, I wondered sometimes how I raised that child without strangling her."_ Again a reference to both Chana and parenthood but this time even with a (joking) reference to a mother killing her daughter. With these two entries there seems to be a clear association of Chana and parenting/motherhood, perhaps her own brand of herald madness has to do with having family.
Just wanna say love your content and channel. The Cosmere is massive and a channel like this dedicated to the cool different details of the universe is so good and fun to watch. The theory crafting in this video was especially engaging, keep it up!
God. If it were Chana, she'd have come back to Roshar after breaking. How emotionally devastating it would be for Shallan if Chana just showed up as Odium's champion.
I think this video is spot on and I would love this to be true. It would make me so happy. Many would think it a huge spoiler. I, on the other hand, am rooting for this to be true! amazing video man!
There's a WoB about this: wob.coppermind.net/events/470/#e14819 They can have kids apparently, but we don't know what the asterisk part means, so it might be complicated lol.
I like this theory, but there are some holes that need to be filled. 1) I don't think Hoid's reaction to Shallan was due to her resemblance to Chana. I think it's because he somehow skips through time, and knows where (and when) he needs to be, but not why. I think he does recognize when he's in the presence of who needs him, and he saw that in Shallan. 2) It is said throughout Oathbringer that the Everstorm is something new, and sending the Heralds back to Braize will no longer keep the Fused away, due to the Everstorm. This implies that the mechanism for the True Desolation is something that circumvents the Oathpact, so Chana's death would not cause the Desolation. 3) Regarding the theory that Chana is Shallan's mother, perhaps we haven't seen enough of her, but all of the Heralds' various insanities are inversions of their or their orders' primary traits. Jezrien, a King, is a penniless drunkard. Kelek, the most decisive Herald, is not indecisive. Ishar has become a megalomaniac. If you believe that Liss is Vedeledev, an Assassin is certainly something of the antithesis of an Edgedancer. And Nale, of course, is a subversion of Justice. Finally, Ash, the Patron of the Arts, has become an iconoclast. What has Shallan's mother done as an inversion of Chana's traits or the Dustbringers? Possibly her inconstant nature implied by her affair? (It should be noted that while Shallan is a notoriously unreliable narrator, she never depicts her mother as anything but perfect, barring of course her death.) I wouldn't say she's a coward, an inversion of Chana's bravery. One clue as to why Chana might be Shallan's mother that was NOT mentioned was the Ghostbloods' interest in the Davar family, which begs the question of why almost as much as Nale and the Skybreakers would.
Hello, I didn't go back and look so i'm not 100 percent sure, but in RoW when Dalinar "punches" Nale and sees the lines that represent the oathpact, I thought that the number of strands was such that chana wluld have to be alive. Again I'm not sure. Thanks for all the videos.
Hi, I just looked up the quote, here it is: “Dalinar stepped forward, walking among his stunned bodyguards, noting eight lines of light extending from Nale into the distance.” So yeah it seems there are lines pointing to eight other heralds, so nine in total including Nale. This makes sense since Jezrien was killed by the Raysium dagger. At this point in the story, both Chanarach and Taln would have returned from Braize, so I think it all adds up. Glad you enjoy the videos!
Okay this is what I dont understand. In RoW we learn that the Fused used an entirely different way of getting to Roshar. No Herald needed to break, and thats why Taln didnt break. So she didnt need to break if she was there on Braize too, wich lifts the blame off of Shallan a 100%. I belive the Shallans mother is Chanarach is correct but I dont belive the 2nd part of the theory. Also her bond to the oathpackt was broken so she just died.
One very big hole in this whole theory is, what most of the fandom seems to forgot. Ishar changed the Pact, so it's whole power rested solely on Taln. Firstly it was that, when even one of them breaks, Fused are freed, but it was changed to "as long as at least one of them holds, Fused won't be freed". If Taln really didn't break, True Desolation should never start.
@@ExploringTheCosmere Right in the beginning. When Nale meets Jezrien after Aharietiam. They talk that Ishar found a way to change a Pact. Of course, it could be Ishar's bluff to relief their guilt conscience, that would explain why he is the most insane of them all, even though they think he is the most sane.
You definitely misinterpreted that chapter. Ishar only changed the pact in a way that all of them abandoned it and it remained. As long as one of them didn't abandon their oaths it would hold. But the spiritual binding their souls have to braize can only be severed by a rayzium weapon equivalent. Had any of the others died in the last 4500 years the desolations would have started again
1. you are wrong the pact didn't change the reason it hold so long was because of taln that's why they left only him. 2. Brandon Has confirmed that taln never broke so who broke? cahnarach died this what happened in the 5th prologue 5. the storm father sense when one herald died I belive it was ishar posing as the storm father that's why he sense it This theory is pretty much confirmed
@@zyo00wv Are You King Arthur from Monty Python, that You count 1, 2, 5? :D Well, nine of them broke even before they got back to Braize, if we want to be precise.
I think the everstorm was likely needed to re-awaken the Pashmen from slave-form. Also, it allows the Fused to continually keep coming back as long as there are Singers who open themselves to them.
If all of them had skipped, probabaly. But because at least one of them, Taln, went, it was enough to meet the criteria of the Oathpact. I forget if Ishar either discovered a loophole, or if he adjusted the Oathpact to make this work, but either way, Ishar realized they could remain on Roshar so long as at least one went to Braize. It DID, however, weaken/ damage the Oathpact, so it's not like their refusal to go went without consequence.
Sure in this theory Shallan caused the desolation, not the immortal oathbreaker who tried to murder a kid. Edit and spoiler for end of video Thank you.
Just in case, could be SPOILER, but i think if you are watching this, it is spoiler from the 3rd and 4th already. well, i think it is Herald´s fault in the first place betraying taln xd; her mother in second place having children and not taking good care of them bc she is a millenary crazy woman, and probably Cryptics aswell sending sprens to die just because xddddddddddd.
Oh and the vocalizations her voice actress’ has Pattern make are one of the most annoying things I’ve ever heard 😂 absolute nails on a chalkboard MMRRRRRRMMM EEEeehhhhhhghh Errrrmmmmmmm storm father save me please. I’m not trying to hate I love The Way of Kings immensely it’s just that Shallan and her Spren annoy/deeply bother me.
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Back cover of Way of Kings has a whole new meaning. "One of them will destroy us", everyone assumed that was talking about Szeth but nah that's talking about Shallan.
I always assumed it was Dalinar.
Big w for Taln, a true herald for certain
I wonder how Shallans father hitched a herald... he must've been quite the catch...somehow...
It was his dreamy eyes of course
Also Shallan could definitely use this as a truth, or as a way of becoming Odium’s Champion, having him take her pain because she thinks she caused the desolation
Oh that is an interesting idea I didn't consider before. I don't think that would actually happen, but I think it could be a plausible development.
There's some hidden umagery in the Chanarach official art that backs up her being Shallan's mother. Look at the dais Chana is hovering above: there are multiple faces, almost nodding to the multiple personas Shallan takes on. One of these faces are obscured by a piece of fabric, almost as if it were... a Veil.
It's really funny/interesting how both of the major factors causing the true desolation may have been self defense. (A) The Parshendi taking on stormform and, (B) of course Shallan's mom
That's a great point!
There is another (possibly) relevant mention. When Kaladin and Shallan emerge from the chasms in WoR and Navani accepts her at last Dalinar thinks that _'The mother axehound had finally emerged. Shallan was no longer an outsider, but one of Navani's clutch - and _*_Chana_*_ help the man or woman who stood between Navani and one of her own.'_
It could simply be a reference to the bravery required for such an act but it does draw a connection between Chana and motherhood as well as Shallan herself.
edit - And a bit later when Shallan and Navani are talking about Jasnah during the expedition Navani says _"Chana knows, I wondered sometimes how I raised that child without strangling her."_ Again a reference to both Chana and parenthood but this time even with a (joking) reference to a mother killing her daughter.
With these two entries there seems to be a clear association of Chana and parenting/motherhood, perhaps her own brand of herald madness has to do with having family.
Yep! It definitely seems like Brandon purposely wrote in those clues
I'm thoroughly convinced, and this is SO cool!
Elegantly constructed video. Best summary I've seen for someone wanting to go down this rabbithole.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
The True Desolation was all the nahel bonds we made along the way.
Just wanna say love your content and channel. The Cosmere is massive and a channel like this dedicated to the cool different details of the universe is so good and fun to watch. The theory crafting in this video was especially engaging, keep it up!
Thank you! There's a lot more to come!
Another thing is in the WaT prologue, Gavilar pays special attention to none other than CHANA’S HONORBLADE
Good point!
God. If it were Chana, she'd have come back to Roshar after breaking. How emotionally devastating it would be for Shallan if Chana just showed up as Odium's champion.
I think this video is spot on and I would love this to be true. It would make me so happy. Many would think it a huge spoiler. I, on the other hand, am rooting for this to be true! amazing video man!
no matter who her mother is, she had no power over causing the true desolation. if her mother is Chanarach, it’s her mother’s fault because she broke.
I agree!
Funny thing: in the updated WaT prologue, they got rid of the reference to red hair.
The biggest hole in the theory is how a herald is able to procreate, which inassume is why Hoid is so surprised in seeing Shallan
There's a WoB about this: wob.coppermind.net/events/470/#e14819
They can have kids apparently, but we don't know what the asterisk part means, so it might be complicated lol.
and also how a 11 year old killed a herald
It's possible for the Godking in Warbreaker and he is in a similar circumstance.
did you know that the lord ruler had kids :)
Heralds can have kids.
Stormfather this has blown my mind
I like this theory, but there are some holes that need to be filled.
1) I don't think Hoid's reaction to Shallan was due to her resemblance to Chana. I think it's because he somehow skips through time, and knows where (and when) he needs to be, but not why. I think he does recognize when he's in the presence of who needs him, and he saw that in Shallan.
2) It is said throughout Oathbringer that the Everstorm is something new, and sending the Heralds back to Braize will no longer keep the Fused away, due to the Everstorm. This implies that the mechanism for the True Desolation is something that circumvents the Oathpact, so Chana's death would not cause the Desolation.
3) Regarding the theory that Chana is Shallan's mother, perhaps we haven't seen enough of her, but all of the Heralds' various insanities are inversions of their or their orders' primary traits. Jezrien, a King, is a penniless drunkard. Kelek, the most decisive Herald, is not indecisive. Ishar has become a megalomaniac. If you believe that Liss is Vedeledev, an Assassin is certainly something of the antithesis of an Edgedancer. And Nale, of course, is a subversion of Justice. Finally, Ash, the Patron of the Arts, has become an iconoclast.
What has Shallan's mother done as an inversion of Chana's traits or the Dustbringers? Possibly her inconstant nature implied by her affair? (It should be noted that while Shallan is a notoriously unreliable narrator, she never depicts her mother as anything but perfect, barring of course her death.) I wouldn't say she's a coward, an inversion of Chana's bravery.
One clue as to why Chana might be Shallan's mother that was NOT mentioned was the Ghostbloods' interest in the Davar family, which begs the question of why almost as much as Nale and the Skybreakers would.
Hello, I didn't go back and look so i'm not 100 percent sure, but in RoW when Dalinar "punches" Nale and sees the lines that represent the oathpact, I thought that the number of strands was such that chana wluld have to be alive. Again I'm not sure. Thanks for all the videos.
Hi, I just looked up the quote, here it is:
“Dalinar stepped forward, walking among his stunned bodyguards, noting eight lines of light extending from Nale into the distance.”
So yeah it seems there are lines pointing to eight other heralds, so nine in total including Nale. This makes sense since Jezrien was killed by the Raysium dagger. At this point in the story, both Chanarach and Taln would have returned from Braize, so I think it all adds up.
Glad you enjoy the videos!
Okay this is what I dont understand. In RoW we learn that the Fused used an entirely different way of getting to Roshar. No Herald needed to break, and thats why Taln didnt break. So she didnt need to break if she was there on Braize too, wich lifts the blame off of Shallan a 100%.
I belive the Shallans mother is Chanarach is correct but I dont belive the 2nd part of the theory. Also her bond to the oathpackt was broken so she just died.
Yes but this could be from her POV. I dont think any of the characters know that yet.
One of my favorite theories
You might have sold me on her mother being a Harold.
It's definitely one of the more probable theories I've looked into
One very big hole in this whole theory is, what most of the fandom seems to forgot. Ishar changed the Pact, so it's whole power rested solely on Taln.
Firstly it was that, when even one of them breaks, Fused are freed, but it was changed to "as long as at least one of them holds, Fused won't be freed". If Taln really didn't break, True Desolation should never start.
That's interesting! When do we learn about that change?
@@ExploringTheCosmere Right in the beginning. When Nale meets Jezrien after Aharietiam. They talk that Ishar found a way to change a Pact.
Of course, it could be Ishar's bluff to relief their guilt conscience, that would explain why he is the most insane of them all, even though they think he is the most sane.
You definitely misinterpreted that chapter. Ishar only changed the pact in a way that all of them abandoned it and it remained. As long as one of them didn't abandon their oaths it would hold. But the spiritual binding their souls have to braize can only be severed by a rayzium weapon equivalent. Had any of the others died in the last 4500 years the desolations would have started again
1. you are wrong the pact didn't change the reason it hold so long was because of taln that's why they left only him.
2. Brandon Has confirmed that taln never broke so who broke?
cahnarach died this what happened in the 5th prologue
5. the storm father sense when one herald died I belive it was ishar posing as the storm father that's why he sense it
This theory is pretty much confirmed
@@zyo00wv Are You King Arthur from Monty Python, that You count 1, 2, 5? :D
Well, nine of them broke even before they got back to Braize, if we want to be precise.
mind status: blown
I’ll believe that Chanarach is Shalan’s mother, but if her breaking caused the true desolation, why did Odium need the Everstorm?
I think the everstorm was likely needed to re-awaken the Pashmen from slave-form. Also, it allows the Fused to continually keep coming back as long as there are Singers who open themselves to them.
Yes. Yes she did.
One thing I don't understand is how a herald "gives in" to the torture. The heralds refusing to go back to Braize doesn't count as giving in?
If all of them had skipped, probabaly. But because at least one of them, Taln, went, it was enough to meet the criteria of the Oathpact. I forget if Ishar either discovered a loophole, or if he adjusted the Oathpact to make this work, but either way, Ishar realized they could remain on Roshar so long as at least one went to Braize. It DID, however, weaken/ damage the Oathpact, so it's not like their refusal to go went without consequence.
it's cultivation's fault technically. her and preservation are the only ones that are good at the future.
This theory is so rock solid I think you may have spoiled a reveal…and now I am afraid to watch your channel anymore.
Sure in this theory Shallan caused the desolation, not the immortal oathbreaker who tried to murder a kid.
Edit and spoiler for end of video
Thank you.
Don't get it. If she was a herald she is immortal and can't be killed by a shard. How did she die
Heralds can still be killed, they just don't go to the Beyond, instead they are sent to Braize until a new desolation begins.
Just in case, could be SPOILER, but i think if you are watching this, it is spoiler from the 3rd and 4th already.
well, i think it is Herald´s fault in the first place betraying taln xd; her mother in second place having children and not taking good care of them bc she is a millenary crazy woman, and probably Cryptics aswell sending sprens to die just because xddddddddddd.
Sorry if i have bad grammatics, i am not native speaker
How do you see green
What do you see? Lol
but the desolation started when taln broke, so what does it matter that another herald was at braize?
Taln never broke: wob.coppermind.net/events/472/#e14869
Oh and the vocalizations her voice actress’ has Pattern make are one of the most annoying things I’ve ever heard 😂 absolute nails on a chalkboard MMRRRRRRMMM EEEeehhhhhhghh Errrrmmmmmmm storm father save me please.
I’m not trying to hate I love The Way of Kings immensely it’s just that Shallan and her Spren annoy/deeply bother me.
WaT spoiler bail out.
Yo those eyes are definatley brown lmao
Both?!
@@ExploringTheCosmerethe left one
Maybe give a spoiler alert. Not everyone has read the newly released chapter. You just gave away the first line. 😕
Hi, that line you're talking about is from Words of Radiance, not the preview chapter. Also, there is a spoiler alert at the beginning of the video
@@ExploringTheCosmere ok. My mistake. I only got like ten seconds into the video.