Dune: Imperium | Rahdo's Final Thoughts
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Help Rahdo Run: / rahdo ❤️ Code of conduct: conduct.rahdo.com 🙂 And now...
A video outlining gameplay for the boardgame Dune: Imperium.
For more game info, boardgamegeek....
Part I: Gameplay Runthrough
• Rahdo Runs Through►►► ...
Part II: Final Thoughts
• Dune: Imperium | Rahdo...
I always appreciate your ability to separate "Is this a well designed (good) game?" from "Is this a game I enjoy?" Obviously, the second question is always the most important but sometimes it's hard for reviewers to separate the two. I like hearing what you think a game does really well and what it does poorly, independent of whether you think it's game you would like to play.
Thanks for the run-through! :)
“I will not have AP. AP is the mind-killer....”
“The cubes must flow!”
why didn't i think of that!?!?!?
Rahdo: "Easily the best game of the year."
Also Rahdo: "And I never want to play it again."
XD
Lol those are two separate things though
@@yardswimmer Yeah, I do get where he's coming from saying this, it just cracked me up all the same :D
@@Calistake047 ah I see. Yea it is but shows he can see what’s a good game even if it isn’t for him. It seems like 99% of reviewers (both video and board game) are unable to do so
He did say "for most of the people" though.
@@BojanBrankov ok and?
Dune the movie is a beautiful interpretation of the novel.
The scenes sacrificed gave room to a deep world full of nuance, detail and intensity. A profound visual and auditory experience on iMax.
This game seems perfect for a DUNE gaming night.
My only problem with the game is with the Market, Turn order, and the Intrigue deck as a whole: randomness that negates all ur hard choices for combat, influence track or endgame just because someone plays a card.
Every advantage should be earned as proven by ur foresight/choices not because of luck! Which is why I propose 3 changes:
1) Have the Market be 8 cards instead of 5 OR flip/refresh all unpurchased cards at the end of the round OR both!
2) Fix the Intrigue deck somehow, like drafting display 3 to choose from, so others know what u got, (if they remember), but don't know WHEN you'll play it!
OR take out the Endgame VP cards & Plot pay for VP cards (there's only 4)
3) Have a mechanic that allows players to affect turn order! Such as: Have the CHOAM Secure Contract space also have a 1st Player icon meaning u get to give the 1st player coin to ANY player and they immediately become 1st player OR will be 1st player next round.
OR each round Player lowest on the VP track goes first then 2nd lowest goes 2nd etc. ties broken per normal endgame rules
1) Agreed, even Copycat did a much better market row years ago. That's not even counting the solutions by Dale of Merchants, Xenon Profiteer, or Volfyirion
3) that'd still be subject to seating order/left-right binding randomness. Perhaps a fully variable order like Dinosaur World or Underwater Cities?
Good to know the solo is good! 😁
As someone who play with people who thrive on cut throat gameplay, who has loved every inch of both Clank and Dune, but has trouble introducing the complexity of the Dune re-release to my regular group; I could not be more excited for this game.
Are u referring to Dune from Gale Force 9?
Love your teaching style Rahdo! Watched 3 other videos and was still confused on how to approach the game...until your video. Understand it much better after watching your vid.
very much looking forward to this!!! I am a huge Dune fan and this game is right up my alley in terms of mechanics. I also don't understand what people's problem is with the artwork. I personally really like the simple board. It is very clear and easy to see/know exactly where and what you want to do. In fact I had the exact opposite reaction I have seen others have. The first time I saw the board, I really liked it. It's minimalist and not overly busy like a lot "art-focused" boards can be.
I... cannot... wait.... to play this!!! This game is completely up my alley! :-D Looks so fun!
Some day I’ll play a dune game with you KK!! 😝
@@EpicGamingNight I'm in! ^_^
This indeed seems like a game you would like but me on the other hand...nope, squared.
I changed a little bit the rule for reveal turn : I keep some cards in hand for next if I want. This way I don’t loose a precious faction card that I was not able to play this turn. Otherwise I am really penalized if I have to wait it will come back. Missing also an action to remove all cards from the row, each time it was my turn to buy a card there were only weak cards.
Me and my wife do not mind crushing each other and we're both Dune fans, so... game's ordered! ;)
I don't think I will play with my wife; my "friends" on the other hand... ;)
I could never play with wife eather, and becous most only us playing there will be azul wingspan pandemic to the table, :)
I buy hevier game digital so I can play them :)
and now dune was relesed on mobile so will try it out :)
My dad and I are both big Dune fans and board gamers and we've been having a great time with this!
Already placed a preorder. :)
This will probably be my game of the year 2021. Looking forward to the new movie as well!
There is a lot of theme and feeling put into it but the conflict is essentially an auction. Even when you snipe someone's bid you are abstractly just bidding more, the variation for theme alone. Highest bid wins first prize and if you lose the bid you do have opportunities to get something else. If you wanted a carebear variant to always get something for the bid just give out all three rewards. Then you could still vie for the top spot but even if the automa out bids you, you gain something.
That actually seems like a reasonable compromise for those who don't like higher risk bidding
that potentially unbalances the game because players can get rewards for very little investment all of a sudden. the current system ensures that players likely bid a decent amount to get those rewards...
@@rahdo Good point. I suppose it would be easier to just reclaim half of your troops rounded down on a lost bid and call it a retreat. :)
It's Dune. There's no "care bear" in dune. It's a ruthless universe full of intrigue and deceit.
Curious to know, between this one and Lost Ruins of Arnak, which one would be your go to, for Solo play?
this since you're playing against 2 opponents instead of 1, but they're both pretty solid, so you should probably pick based on theme :)
The comment about the board vs what ppl are complaining about the board is spot on. Not sure what ppl were expecting
Most people aren't upset about the art on the board they don't like the graphic design in most cases.
Also saw people complaining about the board. Nothing commenting on the function, the just want more different based on preconceptions
Curious why Rado reviewed this one.
i mostly got it because i was curious about the solo mode, plus i just wanted to see the next game from the designer of clank
As someone who has no interest in deck builders whatsoever, this one has my very intrigued. This looks like it could be a game that fires on all cylinders for me.
Late response, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does succeed on firing on all cylinders for you. Like Ruins of Arnak, Dune: Imperium is more worker placement than deckbuilding (which is why a lot of deckbuilding fans don't like it; they want their deckbuilding prowess to pay off).
I'm surprised you reviewed this game. What made you change your mind?
i got it because i wanted to try the solo (which is great) and since it was here i figured i'd take a chance playing with jen, and was not suprised when i discovered it wasn't for us :)
The combat consecutive passing rule is the key to Condittiere.
If you did keep Dune just for solo, like Space Hulk: Death Angel (rank 24), where would Dune rank?
oh, that's a good question! 8.6355 (my new #54)
@@rahdo Impressive. That's game of the year territory for you. The combat reminds me of Pret-a-Porter a bit. After the fashion show, all players lose their collection that they've entered, and they get rewards of different values. The rewards seem bigger in PaP, but then again you don't win PaP with 10vp. Sell your collection thematically does sounds more of an achievement psychologically than lose your collection, even though it's the same result. Maybe those cubes deserve to go home to their families after gaining a reward and exerting their corners in combat :)
@@rahdo Actually my last comment is a goof. I posted my comment a day later after I watch the runthrough, I forgot that you get nothing for 3rd place even though you mentioned it a zillion time. I watched the playthrough again to make sure I'd like Dune. Maybe if Dune rewarded 3rd place as well it would vaguely be compared to Pret-a-Porter as a much lighter and tighter version, as in choose how much to enter > 100% gain something > discard everything you entered. But it doesn't reward 3rd place in a 2 player game.
i suspect if they awarded a last place so everyone has the potential to win something, you'd unbalance the game with low bidders getting good rewards much cheaper than they should
@@rahdo I'd say you're right. The game seems really tight to award something for 1 cube. It's probably too tight to make it carebear friendly. Although, your variant design of 3rd place keeping half the cubes might work. If I buy it, I will test that.
My only complaint is that the game is not long enough to really get the deck building engine going. Having said that, I only have the bass game, so maybe the expansions fixes it to some degree.
I was also considering a house rule that said you go to 24 victory points. I thought I would try it in solo mode and see if it works or not.
Maybe the best review of a game I have seen. My wife and I LOVE deck builders, LOVE worker placement games, and LOVED the movie. We are both reading the book now. But... we do not like playing games that devastate our opponents. I had it on order and I cancelled because I feel the exact same as you, I take no enjoyment out of devastating my wife and boys as you highlight. Thank you!
But you don't devastate, you still get second or third place rewards. Often second being more useful than first when not needing victory points at that specific time.
You don't have to go in the conflict either, plenty of other ways and better resources by going to non combat spots.
Me and partner play this and its great conflict. Its majority battle, intrigue cards can tip a balance but rewards are not all or nothing.
As for the secrets spot. You can ONLY take a secret from rival if they hold 4 or more intrigue cards. The worker spot literally does nothing besides gain you an intrigue card from supply unless your opponent is hoarding 4 or more and even then only loses 1.
This game is more about getting your victory points up and improving game after game. You do not get rewarded just being a war machine. Hence all your troops die in battle.
He who controls the spice is far more useful.
Lastly the intrigue cards add wrinkles and powered up ability of the cards. Not simply murder. They come in three different varieties. I'd say this game is as conflict friendly as you want. You choose to fight or not and can win perfectly fine not fighting a single time.
@@TheOnlyTataYou are correct. What makes this game sing is the fact that there are multiple paths to victory (and most of the time, you can't do everything anyways). It's not as cutthroat as Rahdo is making it out to be. I honestly think it's on the same cutthroat-level as the Lost Ruins of Arnak. I listen to a lot of Rahdo because my primary boardgame partner is kind of a carebear, too, but it's really tricky with him because even if a game is not direct-conflict, he really doesn't like losing.
Rahdo, I’m with you in that my group are a bunch of care bears. Do you think this game is worth a purchase purely for solo play? I LOVE Dune.
i think it works great, but i like automated opponents and not everyone does
I just played my first game ever solo over the weekend and it's an emphatic 'yes' to your question of purchase for solo-only play. it's one of the best solo implementations I've ever seen (like Lost Ruins of Arnak or Viticulture).
I KNEW u wouldn't like it. I'm surprised u did a run-through tbh.
I'm certainly in the camp that is glad for a deckbuilder with direct interaction + conflict.
I hope it is as good as Rune Age (with must-have expansion) in this regards.
Thanks anyway for confirming that it will be good for my group hopefully.
Am I the only one that thinks that Brennan sounds like a Dune house... (oh. Dennen too, but not quite as much.)
Hey Rahdo: Your review was so interesting and so compelling you convinced me to purchase it. I received it in time for Hanukkah. I will do an unboxing on my personal channel and link your how to play to the video I produce. I don't believe in doing what has already been done. I am only doing the unboxing to introduce this game to my boardgame peeps.
Yes really agree with you Rahdo, this is a fantastic game.
How does it compare to Endless Winter? The later looks to scale down better for only 2 players.
EW for us, though i think they both work great for 2p :)
Clank/Waterdeep, reminds me of that looks great
Let me guess. You loved it?
guess again
Which game do you like more, this or Lost ruins of arnak? & have you played the expansions?
we enjoy arnak more, but i think DI is arguably the superior design. i haven't played it with the IX expansion though
@@rahdo I don’t like to have multiple games that feel very similar to each other.(especially when both games are expensive.)
Do you think Lost ruins of arnak & Dune imperium are different enough to be owned at the same time?
@@fightingkitchen7960 they're both worker placement/deckbuilding hybrids, but one is an adventure/race game, while the other is an area control battle. so i think in the end they feel pretty different :)
@@rahdo Cool! Thank you for the recommendation!
@@fightingkitchen7960 I now own both and can say they're both actually really different. The spaces on the board and the cards interface with each other in a very different way. Yes, both Arnak and D:I are worker-placement+deckbuilding hybrid, but because the specifics are so different, there's a unique learning curve for them both. In my very honest opinion, they are both distinct and unique games. I don't regret owning them both and would only warn those who either hate deckbuilding or hate working placement (these games likely won't change your mind about the genre if you hate the genre).
Publishers should start calling care bar variants, "Radho Variants"
a few of them have :)
You only get to keep one. Dune, Arnak, or Endless Winter. Which one?
Dune if you have more players/like area control/dig the theme.
Arnak if you like the exploration better/want to play now.
Endless Winter if you don't mind waiting/want a humungous amount of extra content (being a KS, it's coming out with two billion expansions and modules right from the get go).
good answer! :)
I want to play this game so much
I just need to convince my wife that she'll have fun playing it too
The solo mode is supposed to be awesome too, in case Dune crushes all her hopes and dreams.. -The spice must flow
Hi Richard!
Wich did you like better?
Dune or Vindication??
vindication, though i think dune is probably the better overall design, it's just a bit more in for you face than we like
It's so interesting to me that there are many couples that hate conflict in games, and here we are loving to hurt each other in games XD (only in games of course) I like "poking" my other half that way so much, and he is loving doing it too :D
it's not about couples for us. i don't like attacking anyone i'm playing with, though i don't mind being attacked :)
You were right rahdo this game is in alot of GOTY lists!
Is the promo card essential?
i woudn't say so. the game has incredible variety baked in already :)
I'm so glad me and my wife are not care bears ;) Waiting for this one! I'm also pretty hyped by the idea of getting bullied by cardboard in solo.
Great review Rahdo! Would you prefer this one to Lost Ruins of Arnak in a 2 player setup? I have heard somewhere that Dune Imperium is even better at higher playercounts.
dune definitely gets better with more players, as the heart of the game is the area control battle. but arnak also gets better with more because players create opportunties for each other when they explore.
for us, arnak all the way because we'd rather explore than fight :)
@@rahdo And a + for Arnaks visual presentation. Looks oldschool adventuring. Maybe I will have to get both games... phuh😎
Eternal is just a generic star realms deck builder. At least the physical version is. Dunno about the digital version.
6:50 Richard, I would have thought that this would have been the sort of thing which wouldn't bother you as much:
#1 It looks like you could mitigate the combat. The biggest way: Don't do it! At least you can see what rewards are available - and strategically evaluate the risk/reward ratio of whether it would be worth it for you to invest in the combat. You have to know going into it that you may not get what you want - and therefore that makes the game more tactical (well, I guess that was one of your issues with Brugues - being too tactical, so I can see why it is an issue here, too).
#2 Isn't this a situation in which THE GAME ITSELF is messing with you, more so than other players? The other players are just so also making the same evaluation which you are making regarding whether it would be worth it for them to go in for combat - based on the same decisions. It is not like the other players are intentionally targeting you or other players, for example, by destroying what you made or taking your resources, troops, etc. And you could still get 2nd place in the combat (after thinking through strategically, as I wrote in #1), getting something - even if it was not what you intended. I would go as far to even argue, that if you LIKE what you see as the 2nd place reward, you could make a strategy to try to get 2nd place (from the runthrough, for example, so that you get that water - which you could then use to go to the desert and get spices, etc).
the thing is, there's a fair amount of subterfuge related to the fight because after everyone has committed troops and can't pull out, then you can start playing cards to further alter the outcome, turning sure thing into an utter disaster, and we found that was far too cutthroat for our tastes
@@rahdo Ah, I see.
It's not necessarily the board that is boring, but the graphics on it are. The crossed sword looks like a Microsoft paint project. Zero highlights, depth, literally a few straight lines that connect. Things like that stand out on the board and make it look almost childish/cheap in parts. The combat area specifically looks like a very early prototype. It is def a nit pick and not worthy of much consideration. I've already spent too much time on it lol. Did not stop me from buying this, just pointing out what I see.
Rahdo, help me. I only play with 2, is it worth to buy it?
The conflict zone is the most interesting thing to me, the dummy player disappointed me a lil bit.
Also, for 2p, how would play endless winter, arnak and dune imperium?
i'm not the best suited to answer since it's not my sort of thing. but there's a bunch of threads about it on boardgamegeek, here's a few:
boardgamegeek.com/thread/2579813/poll-solo-2p-3p-4p
boardgamegeek.com/thread/2800013/would-you-buy-game-solely-playing-2p-two-players
boardgamegeek.com/thread/2914483/2p-game-feels-kinda-underwhelming
RE: those 3 games, i'd say they've all got elements that would owrk better at higher plyaer counts, but in the end i'd rate them as 1) arnak 2) winter 3) dune for their 2p specific gameplay :)
@@rahdo tks!
I settle the discusions with my wife with board games, most of the time I still keep saying: Yes Honey, you were right. But at least I try.
Between this and Lost Ruins of Arnak, I'm super excited to get them both to the table. I love that 2 Deck Builder + Worker Placement games (2 of my favorite mechanisms) coming out late 2020 are both really well received (and Endless Winter was on KS as well). Mixing things up in great ways. I'm waiting for the ability to gather again to play my copy of Arnak, and will probably have my copy of Dune before that happens but I'm really excited.
Like you, I'm normally not a huge fan of conflict in games and crushing people, but as you said this is Dune so I guess that is why I didn't shy away from this one and probably because the group I'd play this with is more competitive. My wife and I tend to play lighter games together (slowly introducing her to more and more games though, so who knows what the future holds for us)
Combat is a hard word. It's all about majorities. At least that's what I will tell my wife. 😉
I think I will stick with the "O.G." Dune game (in its new incarnation) - there, the sand storm is likely to kill more soldiers than your opponents. :)
Though I will be seeing the movies this game is attached to when they release.
OG Dune is so hard to get to the table though since it really only rewards 6 player game play. I'm hoping for a similar experience at lower and varied player counts. Sounds like from this review it will a good job of that.
But the very nature of DUNE is cutthroat political machinations. This makes perfect sense. That you don't prefer it is more personal gameplay opinion than review. I think this makes for wonderful storytelling after the game.
i agree completely :)
The idea that the "carebear" types (No offence) don't like how mean it can be is actually a selling point for me :D
I wouldn't play with my wife though, I have to live with her afterwards.
Oh Rahdo you are wonderful human being, but you will be missing a lot if don't keep this one. Players should get themselves into the roles they play, yea sure I crushed you this round but you will have plenty of opportunities to do the same or even worse, because we fight for the most precious resource of the universe off course there will be some foul play, scheming and intrigue. Personally I don't like war games too for example I lost in Game of thrones once cause players decided to gang up on me but I didn't felt bad because that's what happens in GOT either you win or you die. Same goes here no matter the outcome the spice must flow ;)
I presume that font ("DUNE") is from the film? That's pretty cool looking.
Solo is coming for this I heard
it comes with solo rules, they're quite good from what i've seen
Dune, just a desert ? take a look at previous dune game, reprint from gale force 9, there is sand, Rocky Mountain, even polar with snow. On this new one, they could really had made a better board, it is too abstract. The battle seems to be boring if I compare to the first game. It is just kind of simple auction, not area control as it was. I know it is not the same kind of game, but they could have made better.
The rules are a political sim, and make no meaningful use of the board. Its a control panel, not terrain.
Ok but it should not be an excuse to make boring looking game.
Love the shirt man! Thanks for the support.
I am fed up with deck builders. How many times can you pull the same old rabbit out of different colored hats frankly.
The same with worker placement copycats.
And it seems a lot of designers just repeat the same mechanics with different tagged on hollow themes
Vikings, Paladins, Star Wars OR a Dune franchize in this case.
And each time it will be the next “game of the year” until ... next week
LOL.
Please tell us about this mythical game mechanic that doesn't exist that you know about? The mechanics we have are pretty much the end game for game mechanics in board games ATM. I think your real problem is the fact that there are thousands and thousands of games being released now using all these mechanics. Finding the good ones is becoming much harder.
@@dall1786 The tric is to find the right mechanic for the correct setting. The innovation is NOT found when you use the old same repeated mechanics in whatever theme you cover (like this designer -as so many other - does). There are lots of games that use newer twists throughout these booming boardgame years.These games tend to last extremely long too, like Up Front, Diplomacy, Pandemic, Arkham Horror, Enemy Action Ardennes, Terraforming Mars etc...and yes why not the original 6 player Dune game.
Mostly it is because the theme primes the underlaying mechanics.
It is pretty clear this version of Dune is just another deck builder/pawn placing thing with a theme tagged on to it.
It is a pity it tries to “sell” the Dune theme on the only merit you can play it with “1-4” which was the huge handicap of the original 6 player Dune.
The complete lack of the planet surface, conflict troop placings, diplomacy possibilities, the storms/harvesting/terrain features etc that was so originally planted into the old version is replaced with a “done to death” mechanic.
Yawn...
I personally, can't see why everyone seems to love this game. Its weird, I know, but I just can't see it. I want to play it though, that might help. Oh and I can't speak for others, but my problem with the board is the flat, clip-arty graphic design. And that generally, I don't think the aesthetic of the new movie, that this game pulls heavily from, works for dune, in a purist opinion.
My thoughts exactly