In Arrow, I always hated that Felicity got mad at Oliver for keeping his son a secret. The mother literally told Oliver she'd only allow him to visit if his son if he told no one about him .(Barry only knew because of time-travel and doesn't count as he too kept it a secret.) It was the mother's request that Oliver honored and Felicity had no right to get mad about it like she did.
I didn't hate Olicity. Truth is I felt they had more chemistry than Oliver and Laurel, but I wasn't happy when they killed her off - just to bring in Dinah Drake, with full-on powers, and pitching her as the "real Black Canary".
@@OneGaurdianThis is true. After they went all in with Olicity (which iirc the fans were behind... for a while) and Sarah came back, Laurel was just kind of... there. Thankfully the Arrowverse seemed to have a weird thing for bringing back actors as new characters, and I thought that Katie worked a lot better as Earth-2's Black Siren.
The GoT one always makes me smile: it didn't ignore the build- if you watch the seasons through knowing the ending it's kind of obvious what Dani does. She's always chosen violence when she's threatened- and when she faces a problem or an enemy, she sets them on fire. It's what she does, from the first season on.
I find it quite surprising not to see House of Cards in this list. The final season was clearly a panicked re-write after the departure of their star. I find the whole "guilty until proven innocent" attitude of American corporations quite sickening.
I gave up on the Arrowverse shortly after 'Crisis On Infinite Earths', I realized that it was the right call. The first few seasons of Arrow and Flash had a good mix of drama and engaging plot, but as they went on, the balance was shifted and stories became more about in-fighting and romance.
Firefly not being on here is criminal. Absolutely no one watched Batwoman, cared about Batwoman or wanted the show in the first place. People are still angry 20 years later over how Firefly was done.
I mean if you watch Scene N Nerd Podcast, AirricksReloaded or Aplus Hero Report they seem to like the show. They expressed how upset they were that it got cancelled in favor of The Flash after the later kept running in circles ended up with worse writing
Yeah. Firefly was set up to fail. The "first episode" to air was thrown together quickly to satisfy the network, leaving the actual pilot episode -- which is brilliant -- out of the picture. It had a hard time recovering from there. By the time it got to some historically great episodes, like "Out of Gas," the writing was on the wall. Really sad. That show was so good.
It’s still amazing to me how quickly Game of Thrones went from the most important show to an embarrassment that we try not to talk about anymore. The last season and a half were so bad that it pretty much ruined the whole darn show.
I’m not sure I can think of another show whose stock dropped so quickly. For years everyone was raving about it, then following the last two awful seasons it’s just been completely forgotten about.
@@deanlowdon8381 Dropped quickly AND so utterly. I mean, it's rewatchability for the great first 4-5 seasons (at least - arguments can be made) is gone. Kaput. No point because we all know where it ends up and it's just not worth it. Where are those Star Wars movies/shows you 'moved on to' D&D? Huh?
@@deanlowdon8381 You missed a lot of great TV that way. Up until the fourth season it was rather accurate according to the books. Minor deviations for cinematography reasons, but that's ok. As early as season five huge cracks began to open, regarding storytelling and character devopment because the showrunners ran out of books to adapt. Which tells us that those two were great at adapting existing material, but not so great at telling own stories or logically concluding existing ones. As early as season six the show was completely derailed and nonsensical. Some charactes had unmistakable plot armor, others were just killed off without regard to anything. Intelligent characters made lots of stupid decisions and basically teleported around the world while in earlier seasons they literally took like half a season to get from point A to point B. Etc. The first four seasons were nothing short of awesome and I highly recommend watching at least those. The latter four - not so much.
@@dorderre I responded to the wrong comment! I was actually talking about Heroes when I said I gave up season 2. 😂 I did actually watch all of GOT, but the last two seasons were awful…
If I remember correctly, the later seasons of Heroes failed due to a writer's strike. It was less of the decision to keep the same cast instead of changing them, but because they botched together what they had lying around without the writers to finish the show. The costly mistake was to try to think that shows can work without proper writers.
The real problem was that the show was intended to be only one season but the producers were so happy about it that they demanded more seasons and then the strike happened, which was a lose-lose situation
@@pierre-paulmarcil8850 not a one season show but the cast was supposed to be one season only then season two was suppose to be a new cast of heroes then the seasons after that would be a new cast again
Avatar: The Last Airbender is a clear example of how to run a TV show. Write a story, make a plan for how many seasons it would take to complete that story and stick to it. No matter how popular the show becomes, stick to it. Imagine if they had made a fourth season and Azula became the main villain. You and I would have lost interest at one point or another in the fourth season.
Babylon 5 had that. A 5 Season script, but during season 3, the publisher cut it down to 4 seasons, so the writer put all the stuff from seasons 4+5 into season 4. Why does Babylon 5 have a fifth season, you ask? because the publisher went back and greenlit season 5, but there was no plot left from the original script, which is why it feels like the story is bumbling around.
@@caligo7918 Lol. I read that first comment, said to myself "Babylon 5", open for comments and you'd said the same thing. I think serialised TV still works, compared to the modern "it's a x hour long 1 story", but you have to do it like B5, where there is a main narrative, which weaves in and out of episodes, and there are tent pole episodes which it comes to the forefront.
Honorable mention: Killing Rita in Dexter. It might be controversial, because this is partly what made the 4th season the best, but also made all later seasons much worse. Rita was the balance which kept him grounded. Without that, the show was different.
To me more than Rita's death that chain of events that led up to her death was just stupid and I dropped the show after that. It was basically Dexter's fault for her death. He saved the serial killer and then keep on keeping him alive. It ruined the show for me and I just could not watch it afterwards.
I actually disagree, Dexter (and audience) learned there are concequences for our actions. I loved that moment, as Dexter was taking lives (one was innocent, if you remember, he made a mistake), without any punishment - it felt off. Him loosing people he loves the most sounds like justice, for all he has done, even though he has done some good things, he was an anty hero.
To me it is not losing Rita, that bothered me, it is the leading up to the events. He let that serial killer off the hook like an idiot and kept on playing with the guy and then it led the guy to kill Rita. He should have just killed him much earlier instead of playing games. He knew that guy was the serial killer and that he is a dangerous man but Dexter was just being a moron from the beginning. He never should have saved the guy's life in the beginning. The moment he did that in the beginning it annoyed me and then he started playing games with the guy. He should know better since he himself is a serial killer and dealt with other killers and criminals. It was just dumb from the beginning. Dexter basically killed Rita. @@ivanangeli
@@ivanangeli It is true, but it wasn’t my argument. You are just arguing why season 4 was awesome, which I agree with, The ending of season 4 is amazing (and awful at the same time). They just couldn’t do anything with it going forward. His son was meant to replace her as the moral counterpart which keeps him grounded. But they (the writers) failed to do that. Keeping Rita alive would’ve made season 4 worse, but the following seasons better, basically just keep going as usual, which people loved.
The Walking Dead fell apart partly due to being too popular for it's own good, which caused the writers to pander to general audiences. Then there was more melodrama than there was survival horror. But what REALLY killed it was Glenn Rhee's death. The backlash caused the show to lose it's edge and it never recovered. FearTWD fell apart due to a needless retool that changed the tone for Seasons 4-5. Seasons 6-8 was a kinda weird compromise that just didn't work. And again, the show just never recovered.
Yea that was one of the absolute most annoying things I hated about watching the show when I did. People being like, "IF YOU KILL X CHARACTER IM GOING TO FIND YOU AND BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!!!!" completely compromised the integrity of the script. That and the show had zero direction other than a circle was why I left it.
I remember a spokesperson from AMC saying that they had plans to keep The Walking Dead on for 20 years or more. I remember thinking that there was no way they could keep the quality high for that much time! I agree with you about Glenn. After his death, I just didn't want to watch the show anymore. I took a break from it for quite a long time. I eventually continue watching it up until they killed Carl. But of all the deaths on the show, Glenn's death affected me the most. Stephen Yuen was fabulous in that role and his absence left a gaping hole in the show. (Not to mention the baffling decision of teasing his death before it happened.)
I agree in part as far as The Walking Dead. Its why I wonder if HBO would have been capable of keeping the quality of the first 5 or so seasons all the way to the end, even if they had the number of episodes needed. Likely they still would have had characters seemingly teleporting around the world whenever convenient.
I think GoT richly deserves its spot at the top. The show had really started going downhill in season 6, but season 8 was the season where they showed they just didn't give a sh*t anymore. They assassinated both Dany's and Jon's character, just to get to the end. And Bran the Broken.... WTAF‽
And the showrunners rushed the final season for a job they ended up not getting in the end! It’s like they were merrily burning their bridges before seeing if there was a bridge ahead of them.
Came here to say this. Whilst season 8 was just abysmal, the show had been on a down-ward trajectory for the 2 previous seasons as well - unsurprisingly co-inciding with the point GRRM stopped being directly involved in the screen-writing for the show. One of the obvious places to see this is the Hound - pick any of season 1-5 and you get a nuanced character, who is eloquent, but gruff; season 6-8 he just says the C word a lot and provides zero incite into anything.
Supernatural is one of the best American shows ever made. Personally, I love the Leviathans and Chuck as God. Also Scoobie Doo, Cas getting hot'n'heavy with Meg, and Dean becoming a Dog and trying to shoot a pigeon :) What's not to love. :D
I didn't watched last season and tbh I don't even remember what happened after season 11😅 I love SPN but those few last seasons were unnecessary imo🤷♀
The worst part of the Negan cliffhanger is that given the way they handled the whole situation, they could've had their cake and eaten it too. The season should've ended with the death of one of the characters, and the next season should've opened with Daryll's reaction, causing the death of the other character. That would've actually been satisfying.
The whole Rick vs Negan battle took two full seasons (7 & 8), and nobody managed to kill Negan despite the several attempts. A main villain Negan had a full plot armour and then even Rick decided to leave him alive despite all the heavy losses. Rick and his gang didn't have any big moral problems to kill many Negan's henchmen and they were very good at killing zombies, but somehow Negan managed to survive. Besides when there were several separate settlements, the main plot preceeded very slowly because usually every settlement got their own separate detailed episodes. It felt that the writers were obliged to fill 16 episodes per a season without too big changes. In my opinion Negan should have been killed around Season 8 midseason finale (episode 8), and then moved on. A teenage actor who played Carl Crimes also grew older faster than the events proceeded in The Walking Dead.
I actually liked what they did because it built tension, but I think what you said would've been better. building more hate towards Negan during the in-between season, and making him even more hated after he did the second killing.
Every comic fan knew it was going to be Glen, but Abraham's delayed death a few eps before (arrow taking out the new girl drinking the Orange Crush) had everyone second guessing everything. I think more people's headcanons and what actually happened ruined a lot of things for the show. Even now, people still remember Abraham for Mike's quips, and rarely mention he died before Glen. no respect.
I'd add Sherlock to the list. I think the decision to kill Moriarty and making the Holmes' sister the surprise main villain doomed the last two seasons. Also the show was at it's best when it was just Sherlock and Watson out solving a case.
Agreed, I’m a huge Sherlock fan but the sister plot was awful and completely ruined the chances of any future series. Shouldn’t have ended like that but started to go down hill with the Mary plot
Sherlock had such short seasons, it is hard to factor that show into this discussion. How many total episodes were there? Like 12? It amounted to a partial season for most shows. That said, as much as I loved Cumberbatch and crew ... the show steadily declined from episode one to the end. It just continually got worse until it was done. What could have been! But wasn't.
The biggest problem with the second season of Heroes was, quite simply, fear. The first season received rave reviews, and fans were salivating for more. Then the 2007-08 writer's strike hit, and the network started peeing its pants. They were petrified that fans of the show wouldn't come back without seeing something, so the decision was made to push ahead with a truncated season 2 with just eleven episodes. That might have been fine with something like a sitcom, but as we saw in the first season, a Heroes story arc is meticulously planned to take place over 20 plus episodes. As a result, a detail story was subject to a slash and burn, removing most important plot points and characters, and delivering a shell of what could have been. If the network had been able to control it's bladder and waited for the strike to be over, fans would have flocked back to a season worth watching, instead of delivering something that drove fans away.
I always thought the biggest problem with Heroes was the terrible fight choreography and many times the course of action of some characters. I mean, Hiro and Peter were so OP at times, they could've easily killed Sylar before he got Claire's powers. Hiro had the power to solve any problem, but he was too much of an idiot. The guy acted like a 7 yo. I loved the show, but it was too cringe at times and I always caught myself screaming "COME ON NOW WTF JUST FREEZE TIME!!!"
@@evandroa4845 I would argue the point that Hiro spent the first season learning how to use and control his powers, somewhat nerfing his potential as he couldn't be 100% certain of the outcome. Yes there was a certain childish glee at first, but given the show is supposed to be about ordinary people developing these powers, instantly accepting the seriousness of his situation would, I think, have been unrealistic. I know if I ever learned to fly it would be a while before it became mundane enough to be boring. Peter was definitely too OP, until his power change so he could use only one at a time.
It was NOT the network, it was KRING who decided to "scrap everything" and start over for s3. Go watch the s2 or box set dvd extras where they openly discuss this, showing what they had filmed before the literal last minute rewrites and what the plot was SUPPOSED to start with.
I think it was far more simple. Instead of killing Zachary Quinto and moving on, he just kept getting stronger and stronger and they just couldn't seem to commit to making something truly new.
They were basing it on her debut in the Elseworlds crossover, which was honestly pretty dang fantastic. All the pieces for a great show were there, they had a solid cast and a really good premise, but for me at least it just fell a bit short. By the time they just straight up scrapped the main character for a new one, I had lost interest, but I will say that I feel like Batwoman gets more hate than it deserved.
#1 has to be Rome. Between the writer's strike and the $80 million set fire, I think the fire was the studio's attempt to recover something from the wreckage. It's a shame as the set could have been reused at least as often as Aaron Sorkin's West Wing set has been reused. R.I.P. Ray Stevenson. Ave atque vale.
This was such a good show that I think could have riveled I Claudius. At least the two seasons together produced a good story arc for Stevenson's character.
I love Castle. I’ve heard the actors don’t like each other; you can see it during group interviews at cons-they don’t even sit next to each other. Oh well, they faked it fairly well.
Uhhhh. 30 Reasons Why has been rightfully been torn to shreds for glorifying suicide and utterly butchering people's perception of real suicidal ideation
Sleepy Hollow should have been on this list. The second season completed undid everything that the story of the first built on and then plummeted as it went on.
Like Heroes, I think the British version of Misfits dropped the ball when it introduced power swapping and changed out characters, robbing them of a redemption arc where they could grow into legit superheroes.
Many of us knew that _Game of Thrones_ was in trouble when characters suddenly seemed to teleport from one continent to another in just a couple of scenes, whereas in previous years, a horse ride from one city to another could take several episodes. As they said here, it may have been TV royalty but even royalty is not impervious to mortal wounds. Just ask Edward II of England.
this is the irony of this fan base, the whining about the slow pace of the characters, was also incredibly loud. So you are mad that they pandered to fans and then fans realised they never wanted what they asked for. The issue has always been money, HBO never wanted to pay it, Martins involvement dropped the more money making ops that came up and Benioff and Weiss were expected to keep cutting and changing material that had already been fleshed out because 2 episodes needed to be cut so they didn't have to meet cast demands and they didn't have enough time. Then the same fan base whined harder because HBO and Martin were victims and Benioff and Weiss were the only people who had any control. Never have I been more embarrassed to be attached to a fan base, especially where they're being proud of dim thoughts that never even pretended to make sense. Martin and HBO messed us around and then banked on us being thick c*nts and the fans obliged him.
@@kirstybrown1185 You're talking about the high-fantasy TV show starring a cup of Starbucks coffee in its final season? They might as well have filmed it in a covid-era Zoom Room because they were phoning it in using green screens to cover their PJs and their PB&Js during the last two seasons. The early seasons of the TV show were good if excruciatingly slow. The books were algorithmic pulp at their best and awful toilet paper at their worst. The OP is correct to raise the death of Edward II, the likes of which have not been hinted at in film since Pulp Fiction or Salò.
Considering that it went another 8 seasons, I don't think that "doomed" Supernatural... did it result in a couple questionable seasons? Sure. Did it in any way doom it? Uhhhhh no
Would Supernatural have been fine if it ended after Season 5, sure. Would we have gotten the Scooby Doo episode? No. For me that would have been worse. ;)
@@TheVampireAzriel fine i think it's a strong word... never liked when people said season 5 ending would be a good ending for the show, so many things needed to be said/shown after that
Glee had such an intense fanbase dedicated to the actors I think they had to stay with the OG cast to some extent. I think a good one to add would be How I Met Your Mother was ruined because the show runners stuck to the Robin and Ted ending even though the characters developed beyond that relationship.
Fully Gree on both points. I was watching Glee when it was new, and then again with my kids several years later. At neither point did I want to see the focus switch from the original group to the new kids. I often thought there was too much effort placed on the new group, and mostly just wanted to follow Rachel and Kirk in NY. I've not fully seen How I Met Your Mother, but I know enough of the details and really don't like how the entire show was about the mother...until the end. Robin wasn't ever my favorite. She was a better fit with Ted than Barney, but she shouldn't have been the endgame.
Its internet law to mention Firefly and Dollhouse when talking about great shows ruined by costly mistakes/studio interference Really you could make an entire series on every show Fox ruined in the 2000s simce its basically all of them
as a comic fan i was not bothered by the romance Oliver Quenn - Felicity Smoke or other "non-canon" events... both DC and Marvel can write new stories of the same loved heros, but by adapting them to the actuality and with some changes to give some fresh element, thanks to 2 ideas: multiple universes and timelines, + some crisis that reset the entire multiverse. So i was not expecting a show that followed the Arrow comics, but a story with the same hero but also various new elements (like the MCU did, but without major complains on that)
The Arrowverse changes in canon to the comics is mostly the fault of DC not giving the CW shows the ability to use some of the characters. they originally were not allowed to use the holy trinity of Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman, plus a smattering of other characters, forcing the CW to make changes to their plans. A good example of this is in the first season of Arrow where Kord Industries is referenced, as they planned on introducing Ted Kord and his version of Blue Beetle somewhere down the line. DC told them no, as they planned on using the current version (Jaime Reyes) in the movies and felt audiences would get confused. So in many ways, the Arrowverse shows were hobbled by this.
@@strongblade I always despised their weird embargo bullshit...it's also why Slade/Deathstroke only made like 1 other appearance after Arrow season 2 and why they killed off Deadshot ( as well as apparently not being allowed to actually say Suicide Squad... )
I think I can speak for all the Supernatural fans out there when I say we didn't care if the show lost a bit of focus. It came to be a kind of comfort watch after a while. Heroes, I super agree. EVERYONE was saying "Save the cheerleader, save the world" during that first season, even if they didn't know what it meant. The decision to make The Man With the Horn-rimmed Glasses or Sylar into sympathetic characters was, in my opinion the move that killed the show, I also agree that, as much as you might like Felicity, she was a background character.
I didn't mind when they made the Man With the Horn-rimmed Glasses into a sympathetic character, because they did it well enough that his actions could at least be explained. Making Sylar sympathetic and keeping the character such a prominent character for each of the seasons was just annoying.
Yep, was just commenting on sexyvillain syndrome. Sometimes expanding a part or turning a character into a antihero/good guy because fan interest can work...think Coulson, but more often than not, its a disaster that ruins a brilliant villain turn and snatches away a satisfying climax. @@jormungaurd
Can't agree on Supernatural. Loved the first 5 seasons but it became rinse-and-repeat and boring after that. It's a serious issue in Western television that shows are drawn out long past their expiration dates and lose direction, and why so many shows just fizzle out at the end.
Honestly, Oliver and Felicity had more chemistry and a less toxic relationship than Oliver and Laurel. If Oliver got together with Laurel he would have been with his best friend's girlfriend, after said friend died. That would have been much more toxic. Arrow had a real problem with killing off characters, though, as in they did it way too often.
@@radivel1 was that the last season? Maybe it's worth my watch. I stopped watching after season 3. Season 3, episodes 2 and 6 (if I remember correctly) were great, but the others very boring and very hard to sit through, and I was a die-hard-fan before that.
agree... i still think that all the mid seasons showed that Robin and Ted wasn't made to be together in a very long relation. And make us see Tracy on some flashback for few episodes and then made her die was one of the worst finale they could have made.
While I agree that the last two seasons were a low point, they didn't "doom" the series. The whole problem was they decided to split the planned final season into 2 seasons. It was always going to be ending so it didn't "doom" it, but it WAS a poor decision
Heroes will forever be heartbreaking to me. That first season was exhilarating and the follow up was so disappointing. They suffered from sexyvillain syndrome where shows refuse to kill off a villain because people love them/want to shag them(looking at you TVD) Prison Break, like Lost should have either been limited series or an anthology series, like Heroes. Look to the longevity of AHS.
Oh, Fear of the Walking Dead. I loved your 1st 3 seasons because it followed a family through a non comic book look at the zombie outbreak. its small cast of characters was a nice change from the original walking dead and they weren't afraid to kill off characters. Then that new show runner came in and the the cast ballooned. Theres a lot of characters now that just disappeared. when you got a character that doesn't show up for half a season, then you know you got too many characters. season 1-3: good. loved them 4: bland with not much happening 5: probably the worst season of any walking dead show after Tales of the Walking Dead 6: I big improvement. John Glover was awesome in it. It ended in a way to do something new in a walking dead... 7: ... but they decided to take all that potential and piss it away. While not the worst season of Walking Dead, it was the biggest let down in what could have been
I think if Heroes had dropped the first season cast and used a whole new one would have been less successful. The viewers would have probably demanded to know what happened to the original cast instead of getting to know the new. Keep in mind that the most prominent of the new characters in season 2 (Adam, the Dominican twins, and Micah's cousin) pretty much disappeared at the end of the season or early in S3.
I think S2 focusing on a new cast with some minor roles or cameos from the old cast could have been cool. Also, each of the seasons could have had somewhat self-contained stories, but Sylar could have returned each time and been the overall villain that the final season could have tackled. There's a lot they could have done with it.
So, the Arrow complaint got weirdly specific very quickly, because I think it would have seemed more obvious what they were really saying if they'd honestly admitted the flaw was "being original instead of just copying the comics exactly."
I'd prefer to think of "Heroes" as a one season show. Unfortunately, it was marred at the end, because instead of the epic fight between two high-powered individuals, we got... well, what we got. I was OK with "Prison Break". "Batwoman" had so MUCH promise... and they manage to choke the life out of that promise as early as possible. I think the writers must have been hopped up on goofballs for the first season. I don't know or care what happened in the second, but I think the lead actress abandoned the ship before it did her career more damage. "Arrow" suffered greatly when the writers had the love affair with Felicity. I think she was IT in the first season, and by the end I think she had been a world-class hacker and CEO of a tech company. I could write a book on how the writers flunked economics and common sense when it came to Queen Industries. I imagine somebody has already done a "13 Reasons Why" they should have kept it as a single season show. I think it's better to do a nice adaptation of a book as a limited series, rather than to try to make it a franchise. I'd add "Riverdale" to this list. I liked the first season a great deal. After that, it went downhill fast.
The Simpsons. Not making The Simpsons Movie the finale. When the majority of the writers moved on to different projects by the end of season 8 and the new ones failed to maintain the same quality, they should have brought it to an end with the movie being the perfect opportunity, but the show was still a huge ratings draw and a cash cow for Fox. Unfortunately, The Simpsons became a shell of its former self with painfully unfunny jokes, rehashed storylines and a heavy overreliance on self-references. The terrible seasons have far outnumbered the good ones and tarnished its own legacy.
I admit that I initially thought the final season of GoT wasn’t that bad. The longer I thought about it, however, the worse it got. I REALLY REALLY hope that they don’t botch House of the Dragon, as the first season was excellent. They have to trust George RR Martin when he emphasizes that the GoT universe is best handled like a super-marathon, and not a 100m dash.
GRRM has yet to complete the F&I series to this day and is the main reason why the final season seemed rushed… with the “creators” unable to copy and paste,,, they were left to do some actual writing and they were exposed by what was the final product
7:07 I kind of feel like anyone who was surprised at THAT turn of events needs to rewatch the first few seasons. Seasons 1 and 2 practically treated its source material like fatal allergy and it was ALWAYS overly melodramatic. I still remember my eyes just about rolling out of my head at the season 2 reveal that Oliver's sister was actually the daughter of their father's business partner, a soap opera trope so run into the ground that tv shows had been making fun of it for over a decade before Arrow as even release
It's clear that killing off Laurel was done purely for shock value as she was quickly replaced by an alternate version of herself that more-or-less assumes the same identity
The great irony of most TV shows is popularity ruins them. Writers and producers have a story they want to tell but audiences don't like a particular character or actor. Or they try to end something early and it just keeps churning out more episodes such as how M*A*S*H lasted about 4 times as long as the Korean War and the gifted kids on Head of the Class were in high school for 5 years or how That 70s Show went on well into the 1980s. It's a strange medium and one that walks a tightrope. The Walking Dead's biggest problem was sticking too close to the comic's source. I don't think anyone was upset to see Rick or Carl (Cor-al) go, but Glenn Rhee became such a fan favorite, his death also killed the show. Also, Negan was nothing more than a pompous arrogant jerk that was just Jeffrey Dean Morgan doing his Edward Blake/The Comedian schtick from Watchmen. I couldn't believe in the TV show how anyone would've listen to him nonetheless taken orders from him.
That 70s Show technically ended at midnight 1/1/1980 but to your point they completely ignored the passage of time when it was convenient to the plot. Canonically the last three seasons happened over the last 8 months of 1979, as improbable as that is.
I think that's where some of the British TV shows have the edge, either because money is less important to broadcasters than quality compared to the US, or writers have more power, very popular and successful shows often have only a very limited run eg Fawlty Towers (2 Seasons), Blackadder (4 series), The IT Crowd (4 Seasons), Green Wing (2 seasons), Coupling (3 Seasons) , Porridge (3 Seasons), Hyperdrive (2 Seasons) - all excellent shows that didn't outstay their welcome or drop significantly in quality.
Well, M*A*S*H never stated that one season is one year in real time. And the show has 251 episodes, so you can somehow fit it in three year war. But the main point is that the length of the war or historical accuracy was never a focus of the show and it didnt make a difference in the quality of the show.
dont forget Fringe. the last season was just atrocious. sure it was becoming pretty repetitive, but the direction they took it was just embarrassing to the built up narrative.
Fear the Walking Dead really lost its way for a while. Season 3 was beautifully done and it was dark. I wasn't entirely thrilled about Morgan joining, and I'm still not feeling it. I wish Frank Dillane had stayed on the show, but I can understand why he left. And what they did with John Dorie really sucked. Garrett Dillihunt really made the character intriguing.
Heroes' greatest superpower was to have absolutely nothing drive the plot forward for multiple episodes in a row, yet to somehow maintain viewership. Most. Disappointing. Superpower. Show. EVER.
The Oliver and Felicity romance was not a mistake. His chemistry with Laurel was non-existent. Killing Laurel was a mistake, but the romance was the best call.
I don't think Supernatural got THAT bad until right up to those last 3 seasons, and even then there was a couple of good episodes. And I didn't hate that ending at all. Dean went out defending kids, got to stay young and badass in Heaven with his car and didn't have to deal with his body breaking down (I seriously doubt Dean would be a guy who handled his body breaking down until he couldn't hunt anymore well) with his passed on family around him and then reunited with Sam, who got to live his "normal" life and then reunited with everyone he loved at the end as a reward for both. I'm totally fine with that. But a huge chunks of the rest of those last 3 seasons were pretty painful.
My interest to watch The Walking Dead died finally when nobody managed to kill Negan during Seasons 7 and 8. Besides the zombies became rather secondary characters and the plot started to repeat with a similar kind of pattern. A new strange group of people who were lead by more or less mad dictator. I think the Governor was the best villain in the series because he didn't have endless resources to fight and he tried to hide his true motives.
I think that the decision to kill Carl off was what ULTIMATELY killed the show. After Gimple decided to give him the axe, Lincoln and Gurira decided to leave, as well. Also, the decision to kill Glenn off, ‘in order for Maggie to get to her ultimate destination, and grow as a character’ (as a great leader) wasn’t even how it happened!! Gimple kept saying Glenn’s death had to happen, and there was no getting around it. Then they kill Glenn off, and refuse to give Cohan any more money than she was already making, even though she’s now a leader of one of the main communities, and has a MUCH bigger part in the show (not to mention the tension between her and Negan). Lincoln and Reedus were reportedly making about 4 times as much as Cohan. She tried to negotiate with Gimple for a raise (not even at the same amount as Lincoln and Reedus, just a pay bump), and he refused, so she left the show. And rightly so! Right after that, Gimple was replaced as showrunner by Angela Kang, who promptly negotiated a much better contract/pay raise for Cohan, and got her back on the show. Thank goodness. Gimple made a whole HOST of bad decisions, which led to the downfall of this show. Remember the Glenn death fake out?! That was some real bullshit, right there. I always wonder what might have happened to the show if Kang had initially taken over after Darabont left… We wouldn’t have had to deal with Mazzarra or Gimple, and their collectively shitty decisions. 🙄😕 I know people lost their shit over the cliffhanger, but I grew up not getting instant gratification, so that didn’t bother me one bit. 🤣🤣🤷🏻♀️
@@tiabeaniesemotionalsupportdmon And let's be honest, Neegan's introduction may very well be the best character introduction in the history of television. The fact that it was a season finale only made it better.
I completely disagree with Supernatural. Yes, it went beyond Kripke's original story arc, but so what? It was nowhere near a "directionless shell." Each subsequent season had its own arc and the series remained compelling until almost the very end (the only part that I would call a "directionless shell" was the series finale, which was a disaster compared to the rest of the series).
There were really only two scenes from Glee that really grabbed me: Artie's Safety Dance number, and the Dream On duel between NPH and Will. Those were freaking brilliant. Nothing else really clicked for me.
Prison Breaks First Season was absolutely FANTASTIC. I stopped watching during Season 3 . It just wasn't compelling anymore. Compare that to a show like Oz or Justified which were shows that I looked forward to EVERY Season
This list should include Vampire Diaries, one of my favourite shows but should have finished when Nina left, series seven and eight were a painful cash grab
The Neegan cliff hanger wasn't horrible for the show. Glen dies just like the comics. And Abraham died too. It was a good end to a great season and the start of another good season. Definitely slowed way too down after those Two seasons but the show didn't really stop being the show. Nothing close to the changes and fall off FTWD had
Game of Thrones Season 7 is the real dipping point. It was also a shorter season and the start of plot threads getting wrapped up too quickly, like Dany flying a dragon from King's Landing to north of The Wall in a single episode and Sam Tarley's training as a maester being completed in a few episodes. By the time Season 8 started limping and skipping to the finish line, fans were already losing hope. If they'd done 3 more 10 episode seasons, with a few bonus episodes between seasons with exposition fleshing out important characters or setting up big moments, it could have been glorious.
Disagree about GOT. To me, the show was primarily driven by the question of whether Daenerys would go apeshit with power as the Mad King did. The show answered that brilliantly with the rampage of Kings Landing. Character arcs did not end the way people hoped. What? You’re surprised? Since the beginning, people suffered unpopular fates. Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Marjorie Tyrell and so on. Ah well….
Firefly. We all know why. And The X FIles. As soon as Duchovny wanted out, they should've ended it. You can't just replace a main character (as much as I love Robert Patrick, and Annabeth Gish), after 7/8 seasons. In my rewatches, I just stop at the Season 7 finale.
7:01 leading lady? LEADING LADY???!!! Laurel‘s character in the first seasons can literally be described as whiny, problematic, and selfish…. She was never emotionally right enough to be a “leading lady”
Not sure where you got your information, but the chemistry between Oliver and Laurel DID NOT WORK. It just... didn't. And as a comic book fan, I wasn't into putting Laurel with someone who cheated with her sister, anyway. Next time you do a list like this, kindly do a little research before you blame a character for the show's penchant for needless drama.
There was a broad writer's strike that happened after the first season of "Heroes" that affected the show when they tried continuing without them. The strike wasn't _because_ of "Heroes," it was a show encompassed within the strike
I'm sorry little to no explanations??? She was unhinged the entire SERIES! The only thing that kept her grounded was her friends around her. Remove them and she stays unhinged. By far the most accurate build up if that final season.
game of thrones started to go down hill earlier than the 8th season, it started in season 5, with the script, "you need a bad p....", and the endless c*ck jokes from Tyrion which is all he became. The show went for spectacle rather than substance it was known for, an example of this is battle of bastards, Sansa did not tell Jon the Vale was there? all so D&D could have their own Helmsdeep charge? Bringing back Rickon just for that? And then nobody caring that he is dead? Show had a long fall, it was not just 1 season.
I'm gonna call out the Batwoman opinion. I think it held up through the first season. The Alice/Kate relationship was a great dynamic. But, look, if you any of you producers out there a paying attention: You can recast a lead actor. It's okay. Real-world shit happens. But to replace the lead actor and then, for some reason, also change the lead character at the same time....what the fuck were you thinking? You spent a season building a show on the relationship between the main character and the main villain. And you did it pretty well. They you just got rid of the main character. Created a new main character. And everything fell on its face because everything you'd built up had no legs to stand on. The pretty compelling villain just...kind of floated there and people stopped caring.
Also I don't care about Arrow but it's extremely weird to call a ship on it "non-canon" when it was literally canon. To the show it was on. Because the show was not the comics. Comic fans are so weird.
I 100% agree about Prison Break, I absolutely loved the first season but once they had broken out of prison it went massively downhill and the title didn't make any sense!
Batwoman was doomed because the writers completely abandoned the source material and never gave her any background, character development, motive or qualifications for dawning the cape. In comics she was a cop and army veteran who was inspired by Batman.
Alias is one I will mention with the British Spy plot that ruined the series I think half way through. Also the only season of 24 I hated was the Jack's Father and Son season. That was just terrible writing all together. I'm not sure if that was after the writers strike but oooof awful.
Apparently Glee was supposed to get a spin off series following the New York story line, and glee would focus on the McKinley side. But the New York story line failed they just decided to to split the focus of the show
"Lost" could easily have been a "bonus" inclusion to this list. A clever premise with ultimately no direction and no resolution to significant plot points and twists. Ending with an unforeseen commentary on religious universalism. Totally inability to finish a story.
Obviously the script writers aren’t aware of any tv shows in the last millennium. For them to describe Negans entrance as the worst cliffhanger in tv history never heard of Bobby getting out of the shower in Dallas
13 Reasons Why should not be on this list. The show was emasculate & its biggest issue is the weak ass sensitivity society has, ya’ll would rather shield your eyes from the truth than be forced to admit that those things really happen to youth.
All right let's get something straight right now the arrowverse was never comic book accurate. It was much more Batman story than it was Green Arrow story Felicity at least made it refreshing and worth watching
The excellent show Reacher has an important decision to make. It has a great ensemble cast, but in the novels Reacher starts each book in a new town with new characters. Will they attempt to keep him in the same sleepy town to keep the ensemble cast or will they stay true to the books? I fear their decision...
Game of Thrones started to go down hill the moment they ran out of source material. you can see that moment when the characters suddenly developed plot armour. I'll allow Jon Snow but that was because it was an open end, not a complete drop (though they could have waited an episode before even returning to the wall to make it seem like it was a possibility he was dead).
It's almost certain that Jon Snow will also survive in the books. The difference will be that in the books, Melisandre is right there when Jon gets stabbed, so she's not going to need to wait for days between death and trying to revive him it will probably happen that same night which still is plot armor but they've established the red priests/priestesses have that ability.
I LOVE Supernatural. It may have gone longer than it was [originally] supposed to be, but it's was always a great show, in my opinion. Personally, I prefer the latter seasons to the first few. NONE of the seasons are bad, or even mediocre, but some are still better than others.
To sum up - vast majority of the time showrunners ruin it - either being too stubborn to properly end a show or letting their egos loose fans be damned
Yal always say the walking dead got bad but if u pay attention it's as good as it's ever been if u actually watched dead city Daryl Dixon was amazing and 9 through 11 of the last season of og show was awesome too.
Angela Kang becoming showrunner, replacing Gimple, successfully renegotiating Lauren Cohan’s contract and bringing her back to the show, and getting those last couple of decent seasons out did kind of bring it back from the dead, so to speak.
Chuck is my all time favorite show and was doomed by bad scheduling. It was competing against Dancing with the Stars, How I Met Your Mother, and House. If it was scheduled on Tuesday or Wednesday, it would have been a rating success.
I enjoyed most of it, but it did go one season too many. The Big Bad of the final season was frankly ridiculous, and only kept escaping through the liberal use of Plot Armour.
@@markchapman6800 I agree the last season was not as good as the others. The intersect should never been given to anyone but Chuck. I am rewatching the last season right now and the last couple episodes gives a lot of plot lines for a future Chuck movie. The season four finale did not give that.
@@markchapman6800 bro can i be 100% honest with you? chuck is one of my favorite tv shows and i have watched it more than 5 times (i only found out about the show 1-2 years ago) but i have never watched the last season... when they made sara lose her memories i just couldn't watch it...
Kate Kane wasn’t well received when she killed Batman. Are you insane? She’s been hated from the start. And it has the worst writers I’ve ever seen in tv history. And I WATCHED the whole first season, I think. Certainly something like 13-17 episodes until another crossover, at least. It’s garbage. I’d rather watch Paramount’s Halo, despite them ruining one of my top 3 franchises, ever. It still has better writers, if you don’t treat it like Halo… and don’t care about the war crimes of sleeping with a POW.
Well... I liked GoT and even if the last season felt indeed rushed and could have used at least one more episode (two would have been probably better) I was satisfied with it. I know that there are sooo many other people who didn't liked it but there are different kind of tastes. And everybody who says that Dani's change of character was a complete surprise: Have you watched the series?!? Sure, it was rushed, but not THAT surprising.... And I never understood why the Negan cliffhanger was that badly received! I thought it was a hell of a cliffhanger and quite liked it.... And the dead of Glen was overdue (even if I really, really liked the character!) because as as far as I'm aware he dies a lot earlier in the books....
Couldn't agree more with both series. I had very early the feeling that Dany would become the Mad Queen at the End. The signs were always there. Sometimes she was very cruel and merciless. With Glenn: I always had the feeling that he was standing in the way for Maggie's character development. I don't think she would have become the leader of Hilltop with Glenn at her side. But Glenn dies the same way in the comics. Abraham was dead at this point already. He GoT Denise's TV-death (crossbow bolt through the eye).
Honourable mention: Netflix ending shows at one season even if they were successful
Aaagh! Don't remind me!!
Not to mention Fox tanking shows to make room for Reality TV ( which FYI is much cheaper, but only viewable on illicit narcotics!)
Should start a list. Here's mine:
The AO.
@@radivel1 The Society
@@radivel1Sense8
In Arrow, I always hated that Felicity got mad at Oliver for keeping his son a secret. The mother literally told Oliver she'd only allow him to visit if his son if he told no one about him .(Barry only knew because of time-travel and doesn't count as he too kept it a secret.) It was the mother's request that Oliver honored and Felicity had no right to get mad about it like she did.
Hyper focus on Felicity was why I stopped watching Arrow, probably. Being a cute nerd is only so good when she's also a drama queen.
Felicity is the worst
I didn't hate Olicity. Truth is I felt they had more chemistry than Oliver and Laurel, but I wasn't happy when they killed her off - just to bring in Dinah Drake, with full-on powers, and pitching her as the "real Black Canary".
@@OneGaurdianThis is true. After they went all in with Olicity (which iirc the fans were behind... for a while) and Sarah came back, Laurel was just kind of... there. Thankfully the Arrowverse seemed to have a weird thing for bringing back actors as new characters, and I thought that Katie worked a lot better as Earth-2's Black Siren.
Right there with you and I actually kind of liked felicity to begin with but a man just can’t be friends with a woman like her
i think carl's death hurt TWD more than the cliffhanger and killing glenn
The GoT one always makes me smile: it didn't ignore the build- if you watch the seasons through knowing the ending it's kind of obvious what Dani does. She's always chosen violence when she's threatened- and when she faces a problem or an enemy, she sets them on fire. It's what she does, from the first season on.
Your fear the walking dead section was 100% spot on.
I find it quite surprising not to see House of Cards in this list. The final season was clearly a panicked re-write after the departure of their star. I find the whole "guilty until proven innocent" attitude of American corporations quite sickening.
ugh the sixth season of Supernatural was a bit rough but the show rarely had a bad episode and remained pretty great throughout it's entire run
I gave up on the Arrowverse shortly after 'Crisis On Infinite Earths', I realized that it was the right call. The first few seasons of Arrow and Flash had a good mix of drama and engaging plot, but as they went on, the balance was shifted and stories became more about in-fighting and romance.
I think you can lay all the problems with Walking Dead at Kirkman's feet: the book went on and on and on.....
Firefly not being on here is criminal. Absolutely no one watched Batwoman, cared about Batwoman or wanted the show in the first place. People are still angry 20 years later over how Firefly was done.
I mean if you watch Scene N Nerd Podcast, AirricksReloaded or Aplus Hero Report they seem to like the show. They expressed how upset they were that it got cancelled in favor of The Flash after the later kept running in circles ended up with worse writing
Firefly, the network buried the show in a bad time slot and aired the episodes out of order.
Also by Fox, whose shows figured several times here.
Yeah. Firefly was set up to fail. The "first episode" to air was thrown together quickly to satisfy the network, leaving the actual pilot episode -- which is brilliant -- out of the picture. It had a hard time recovering from there. By the time it got to some historically great episodes, like "Out of Gas," the writing was on the wall. Really sad. That show was so good.
It’s still amazing to me how quickly Game of Thrones went from the most important show to an embarrassment that we try not to talk about anymore. The last season and a half were so bad that it pretty much ruined the whole darn show.
I’m not sure I can think of another show whose stock dropped so quickly. For years everyone was raving about it, then following the last two awful seasons it’s just been completely forgotten about.
@@deanlowdon8381 Only other show I can think of is maybe LOST, but it's a good thing House of Dragons rectified things a bit.
@@deanlowdon8381 Dropped quickly AND so utterly. I mean, it's rewatchability for the great first 4-5 seasons (at least - arguments can be made) is gone. Kaput. No point because we all know where it ends up and it's just not worth it.
Where are those Star Wars movies/shows you 'moved on to' D&D? Huh?
@@deanlowdon8381 You missed a lot of great TV that way. Up until the fourth season it was rather accurate according to the books. Minor deviations for cinematography reasons, but that's ok. As early as season five huge cracks began to open, regarding storytelling and character devopment because the showrunners ran out of books to adapt. Which tells us that those two were great at adapting existing material, but not so great at telling own stories or logically concluding existing ones. As early as season six the show was completely derailed and nonsensical. Some charactes had unmistakable plot armor, others were just killed off without regard to anything. Intelligent characters made lots of stupid decisions and basically teleported around the world while in earlier seasons they literally took like half a season to get from point A to point B. Etc.
The first four seasons were nothing short of awesome and I highly recommend watching at least those. The latter four - not so much.
@@dorderre I responded to the wrong comment! I was actually talking about Heroes when I said I gave up season 2. 😂
I did actually watch all of GOT, but the last two seasons were awful…
If I remember correctly, the later seasons of Heroes failed due to a writer's strike. It was less of the decision to keep the same cast instead of changing them, but because they botched together what they had lying around without the writers to finish the show. The costly mistake was to try to think that shows can work without proper writers.
You're absolutely right,it was exactly that,the writers strike.
And then the execs moved the time slot without advertising it so people didn't even know it came back on
@@genlando327plays2let's hope this years strike doesn't make the same mistake
The real problem was that the show was intended to be only one season but the producers were so happy about it that they demanded more seasons and then the strike happened, which was a lose-lose situation
@@pierre-paulmarcil8850 not a one season show but the cast was supposed to be one season only then season two was suppose to be a new cast of heroes then the seasons after that would be a new cast again
GOT still hurts! Season 8 completely killed the rewatch value.
They really dropped the ball on what would've been by consensus the GOAT TV show.
I even the first few episodes were good but there really should have been another season
It started to fall apart when they ran out of JRR Martins story but the last 2 seasons are where it really went to pieces
Avatar: The Last Airbender is a clear example of how to run a TV show. Write a story, make a plan for how many seasons it would take to complete that story and stick to it. No matter how popular the show becomes, stick to it.
Imagine if they had made a fourth season and Azula became the main villain. You and I would have lost interest at one point or another in the fourth season.
Babylon 5 had that. A 5 Season script, but during season 3, the publisher cut it down to 4 seasons, so the writer put all the stuff from seasons 4+5 into season 4. Why does Babylon 5 have a fifth season, you ask? because the publisher went back and greenlit season 5, but there was no plot left from the original script, which is why it feels like the story is bumbling around.
@@caligo7918 Lol. I read that first comment, said to myself "Babylon 5", open for comments and you'd said the same thing.
I think serialised TV still works, compared to the modern "it's a x hour long 1 story", but you have to do it like B5, where there is a main narrative, which weaves in and out of episodes, and there are tent pole episodes which it comes to the forefront.
Honorable mention: Killing Rita in Dexter. It might be controversial, because this is partly what made the 4th season the best, but also made all later seasons much worse. Rita was the balance which kept him grounded. Without that, the show was different.
To me more than Rita's death that chain of events that led up to her death was just stupid and I dropped the show after that. It was basically Dexter's fault for her death. He saved the serial killer and then keep on keeping him alive. It ruined the show for me and I just could not watch it afterwards.
I actually disagree, Dexter (and audience) learned there are concequences for our actions. I loved that moment, as Dexter was taking lives (one was innocent, if you remember, he made a mistake), without any punishment - it felt off. Him loosing people he loves the most sounds like justice, for all he has done, even though he has done some good things, he was an anty hero.
To me it is not losing Rita, that bothered me, it is the leading up to the events. He let that serial killer off the hook like an idiot and kept on playing with the guy and then it led the guy to kill Rita. He should have just killed him much earlier instead of playing games. He knew that guy was the serial killer and that he is a dangerous man but Dexter was just being a moron from the beginning. He never should have saved the guy's life in the beginning. The moment he did that in the beginning it annoyed me and then he started playing games with the guy. He should know better since he himself is a serial killer and dealt with other killers and criminals. It was just dumb from the beginning. Dexter basically killed Rita. @@ivanangeli
@@ivanangeli It is true, but it wasn’t my argument. You are just arguing why season 4 was awesome, which I agree with, The ending of season 4 is amazing (and awful at the same time). They just couldn’t do anything with it going forward.
His son was meant to replace her as the moral counterpart which keeps him grounded. But they (the writers) failed to do that.
Keeping Rita alive would’ve made season 4 worse, but the following seasons better, basically just keep going as usual, which people loved.
The Walking Dead fell apart partly due to being too popular for it's own good, which caused the writers to pander to general audiences. Then there was more melodrama than there was survival horror. But what REALLY killed it was Glenn Rhee's death. The backlash caused the show to lose it's edge and it never recovered.
FearTWD fell apart due to a needless retool that changed the tone for Seasons 4-5. Seasons 6-8 was a kinda weird compromise that just didn't work. And again, the show just never recovered.
Yea that was one of the absolute most annoying things I hated about watching the show when I did. People being like, "IF YOU KILL X CHARACTER IM GOING TO FIND YOU AND BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!!!!" completely compromised the integrity of the script. That and the show had zero direction other than a circle was why I left it.
I remember a spokesperson from AMC saying that they had plans to keep The Walking Dead on for 20 years or more. I remember thinking that there was no way they could keep the quality high for that much time! I agree with you about Glenn. After his death, I just didn't want to watch the show anymore. I took a break from it for quite a long time. I eventually continue watching it up until they killed Carl. But of all the deaths on the show, Glenn's death affected me the most. Stephen Yuen was fabulous in that role and his absence left a gaping hole in the show. (Not to mention the baffling decision of teasing his death before it happened.)
I agree in part as far as The Walking Dead. Its why I wonder if HBO would have been capable of keeping the quality of the first 5 or so seasons all the way to the end, even if they had the number of episodes needed. Likely they still would have had characters seemingly teleporting around the world whenever convenient.
I think GoT richly deserves its spot at the top. The show had really started going downhill in season 6, but season 8 was the season where they showed they just didn't give a sh*t anymore. They assassinated both Dany's and Jon's character, just to get to the end.
And Bran the Broken.... WTAF‽
And the showrunners rushed the final season for a job they ended up not getting in the end! It’s like they were merrily burning their bridges before seeing if there was a bridge ahead of them.
Came here to say this. Whilst season 8 was just abysmal, the show had been on a down-ward trajectory for the 2 previous seasons as well - unsurprisingly co-inciding with the point GRRM stopped being directly involved in the screen-writing for the show. One of the obvious places to see this is the Hound - pick any of season 1-5 and you get a nuanced character, who is eloquent, but gruff; season 6-8 he just says the C word a lot and provides zero incite into anything.
I'd say season 5 with the whole Dorne thing. Season 6 was probably the last with any highlights.
@@EvilGav For me the biggest changes were with Tyrion and Sansa. They both became really dumb in Season 6 to move the plot along.
C'mon it wasn't that bad. Sure there were a couple loose threads that were never summarised, but it was still quite enjoyable.
Supernatural is one of the best American shows ever made. Personally, I love the Leviathans and Chuck as God. Also Scoobie Doo, Cas getting hot'n'heavy with Meg, and Dean becoming a Dog and trying to shoot a pigeon :) What's not to love. :D
Totally agree!
Sure, season 14&15 could’ve been better, but no way it should have ended at season 5!
I love the leviathan arc. It is probably one of my favorite arcs. I love soulless Sam.
I didn't watched last season and tbh I don't even remember what happened after season 11😅 I love SPN but those few last seasons were unnecessary imo🤷♀
and even greater given most was filmed in BC.
you are a true fan :) me too :D
The worst part of the Negan cliffhanger is that given the way they handled the whole situation, they could've had their cake and eaten it too.
The season should've ended with the death of one of the characters, and the next season should've opened with Daryll's reaction, causing the death of the other character. That would've actually been satisfying.
The whole Rick vs Negan battle took two full seasons (7 & 8), and nobody managed to kill Negan despite the several attempts. A main villain Negan had a full plot armour and then even Rick decided to leave him alive despite all the heavy losses. Rick and his gang didn't have any big moral problems to kill many Negan's henchmen and they were very good at killing zombies, but somehow Negan managed to survive.
Besides when there were several separate settlements, the main plot preceeded very slowly because usually every settlement got their own separate detailed episodes. It felt that the writers were obliged to fill 16 episodes per a season without too big changes. In my opinion Negan should have been killed around Season 8 midseason finale (episode 8), and then moved on. A teenage actor who played Carl Crimes also grew older faster than the events proceeded in The Walking Dead.
I actually liked what they did because it built tension, but I think what you said would've been better. building more hate towards Negan during the in-between season, and making him even more hated after he did the second killing.
Every comic fan knew it was going to be Glen, but Abraham's delayed death a few eps before (arrow taking out the new girl drinking the Orange Crush) had everyone second guessing everything. I think more people's headcanons and what actually happened ruined a lot of things for the show. Even now, people still remember Abraham for Mike's quips, and rarely mention he died before Glen. no respect.
I am not convinced they knew who they wanted to kill when they plotted this. Its the only explanation that fits what they ended up doing.
If it weren't for the plot armor, Negan probably would have been dead a long time ago
I'd add Sherlock to the list. I think the decision to kill Moriarty and making the Holmes' sister the surprise main villain doomed the last two seasons. Also the show was at it's best when it was just Sherlock and Watson out solving a case.
Agreed. Adding Sherlock's sister and that ludicrous plot was an attempt to top Moriarty.
Agreed, I’m a huge Sherlock fan but the sister plot was awful and completely ruined the chances of any future series. Shouldn’t have ended like that but started to go down hill with the Mary plot
Sherlock had such short seasons, it is hard to factor that show into this discussion. How many total episodes were there? Like 12? It amounted to a partial season for most shows. That said, as much as I loved Cumberbatch and crew ... the show steadily declined from episode one to the end. It just continually got worse until it was done. What could have been! But wasn't.
The biggest problem with the second season of Heroes was, quite simply, fear. The first season received rave reviews, and fans were salivating for more. Then the 2007-08 writer's strike hit, and the network started peeing its pants. They were petrified that fans of the show wouldn't come back without seeing something, so the decision was made to push ahead with a truncated season 2 with just eleven episodes. That might have been fine with something like a sitcom, but as we saw in the first season, a Heroes story arc is meticulously planned to take place over 20 plus episodes. As a result, a detail story was subject to a slash and burn, removing most important plot points and characters, and delivering a shell of what could have been. If the network had been able to control it's bladder and waited for the strike to be over, fans would have flocked back to a season worth watching, instead of delivering something that drove fans away.
I always thought the biggest problem with Heroes was the terrible fight choreography and many times the course of action of some characters. I mean, Hiro and Peter were so OP at times, they could've easily killed Sylar before he got Claire's powers. Hiro had the power to solve any problem, but he was too much of an idiot. The guy acted like a 7 yo. I loved the show, but it was too cringe at times and I always caught myself screaming "COME ON NOW WTF JUST FREEZE TIME!!!"
Nathan finding religion didn't help either.
@@evandroa4845 I would argue the point that Hiro spent the first season learning how to use and control his powers, somewhat nerfing his potential as he couldn't be 100% certain of the outcome. Yes there was a certain childish glee at first, but given the show is supposed to be about ordinary people developing these powers, instantly accepting the seriousness of his situation would, I think, have been unrealistic. I know if I ever learned to fly it would be a while before it became mundane enough to be boring. Peter was definitely too OP, until his power change so he could use only one at a time.
It was NOT the network, it was KRING who decided to "scrap everything" and start over for s3.
Go watch the s2 or box set dvd extras where they openly discuss this, showing what they had filmed before the literal last minute rewrites and what the plot was SUPPOSED to start with.
I think it was far more simple. Instead of killing Zachary Quinto and moving on, he just kept getting stronger and stronger and they just couldn't seem to commit to making something truly new.
"Doomed great TV shows".........who has ever said Batwoman was a great show??
😂😂
Yeah. It was pretty much shit from jump.
The big mistake in Batwoman was making Batwoman, followed by hiring Ruby Rose to begin with.
I think they’re referring to the potential of the show to have been great.
They were basing it on her debut in the Elseworlds crossover, which was honestly pretty dang fantastic. All the pieces for a great show were there, they had a solid cast and a really good premise, but for me at least it just fell a bit short. By the time they just straight up scrapped the main character for a new one, I had lost interest, but I will say that I feel like Batwoman gets more hate than it deserved.
#1 has to be Rome. Between the writer's strike and the $80 million set fire, I think the fire was the studio's attempt to recover something from the wreckage. It's a shame as the set could have been reused at least as often as Aaron Sorkin's West Wing set has been reused. R.I.P. Ray Stevenson. Ave atque vale.
This was such a good show that I think could have riveled I Claudius. At least the two seasons together produced a good story arc for Stevenson's character.
I wish Rome went on there was so much rich history and story telling to tell. Rome was excellent.
Castle (and Bones for that matter, but especially Castle)... trying to push forward with a leading pair romance when the actors hated each other
I always saw Castle as someone handing Nathan Fillion a box of crayons and he went nuts. I simply couldn't get interested.
What? I had never heard the actors who played Bones and Booth hated each other. Wow.
I love Castle. I’ve heard the actors don’t like each other; you can see it during group interviews at cons-they don’t even sit next to each other. Oh well, they faked it fairly well.
I don't mind how Bones ended, they definitely pushed Castle a season too far.
Uhhhh. 30 Reasons Why has been rightfully been torn to shreds for glorifying suicide and utterly butchering people's perception of real suicidal ideation
Sleepy Hollow should have been on this list. The second season completed undid everything that the story of the first built on and then plummeted as it went on.
If you need to apologize for including Supernatural in a "doomed show" list because it's not true, then don't include it.
Like Heroes, I think the British version of Misfits dropped the ball when it introduced power swapping and changed out characters, robbing them of a redemption arc where they could grow into legit superheroes.
Agree totally ruined it
Misfits was awesome. Fantastic cast.
How can you not like Kelly as a fucking rocket scientist? Lol
HBO cancelling Rome. Season 2 was very condensed but Rome was also truly great.
100% but that was just a cost issue not a 'costly mistake'
The entire film set of Rome burned down. At the time, it was the world's largest standing film set. They weren't going to pay to build it again.
@radivel1
thx for the info! I didn‘t know that.
Many of us knew that _Game of Thrones_ was in trouble when characters suddenly seemed to teleport from one continent to another in just a couple of scenes, whereas in previous years, a horse ride from one city to another could take several episodes. As they said here, it may have been TV royalty but even royalty is not impervious to mortal wounds. Just ask Edward II of England.
this is the irony of this fan base, the whining about the slow pace of the characters, was also incredibly loud. So you are mad that they pandered to fans and then fans realised they never wanted what they asked for. The issue has always been money, HBO never wanted to pay it, Martins involvement dropped the more money making ops that came up and Benioff and Weiss were expected to keep cutting and changing material that had already been fleshed out because 2 episodes needed to be cut so they didn't have to meet cast demands and they didn't have enough time. Then the same fan base whined harder because HBO and Martin were victims and Benioff and Weiss were the only people who had any control. Never have I been more embarrassed to be attached to a fan base, especially where they're being proud of dim thoughts that never even pretended to make sense. Martin and HBO messed us around and then banked on us being thick c*nts and the fans obliged him.
@@kirstybrown1185 You're talking about the high-fantasy TV show starring a cup of Starbucks coffee in its final season? They might as well have filmed it in a covid-era Zoom Room because they were phoning it in using green screens to cover their PJs and their PB&Js during the last two seasons. The early seasons of the TV show were good if excruciatingly slow. The books were algorithmic pulp at their best and awful toilet paper at their worst. The OP is correct to raise the death of Edward II, the likes of which have not been hinted at in film since Pulp Fiction or Salò.
Considering that it went another 8 seasons, I don't think that "doomed" Supernatural... did it result in a couple questionable seasons? Sure. Did it in any way doom it? Uhhhhh no
I agree there are pro's and cons for Supernatural continuing after season 5.
Season 6 and 11 were two other times the show was supposed to end.
Would Supernatural have been fine if it ended after Season 5, sure.
Would we have gotten the Scooby Doo episode? No. For me that would have been worse. ;)
@@TheVampireAzriel fine i think it's a strong word... never liked when people said season 5 ending would be a good ending for the show, so many things needed to be said/shown after that
Man Heroes first season was so well done. I sometimes forget that the second season was stifled by the writers strike part way through.
Glee had such an intense fanbase dedicated to the actors I think they had to stay with the OG cast to some extent. I think a good one to add would be How I Met Your Mother was ruined because the show runners stuck to the Robin and Ted ending even though the characters developed beyond that relationship.
Fully Gree on both points. I was watching Glee when it was new, and then again with my kids several years later. At neither point did I want to see the focus switch from the original group to the new kids. I often thought there was too much effort placed on the new group, and mostly just wanted to follow Rachel and Kirk in NY. I've not fully seen How I Met Your Mother, but I know enough of the details and really don't like how the entire show was about the mother...until the end. Robin wasn't ever my favorite. She was a better fit with Ted than Barney, but she shouldn't have been the endgame.
Its internet law to mention Firefly and Dollhouse when talking about great shows ruined by costly mistakes/studio interference
Really you could make an entire series on every show Fox ruined in the 2000s simce its basically all of them
as a comic fan i was not bothered by the romance Oliver Quenn - Felicity Smoke or other "non-canon" events... both DC and Marvel can write new stories of the same loved heros, but by adapting them to the actuality and with some changes to give some fresh element, thanks to 2 ideas: multiple universes and timelines, + some crisis that reset the entire multiverse.
So i was not expecting a show that followed the Arrow comics, but a story with the same hero but also various new elements (like the MCU did, but without major complains on that)
As a friend of mine told me when I started getting into comics, "Canon" is very very loosely adhered to in the medium, if at all 😂😊
The Arrowverse changes in canon to the comics is mostly the fault of DC not giving the CW shows the ability to use some of the characters. they originally were not allowed to use the holy trinity of Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman, plus a smattering of other characters, forcing the CW to make changes to their plans. A good example of this is in the first season of Arrow where Kord Industries is referenced, as they planned on introducing Ted Kord and his version of Blue Beetle somewhere down the line. DC told them no, as they planned on using the current version (Jaime Reyes) in the movies and felt audiences would get confused.
So in many ways, the Arrowverse shows were hobbled by this.
@@strongblade I always despised their weird embargo bullshit...it's also why Slade/Deathstroke only made like 1 other appearance after Arrow season 2 and why they killed off Deadshot ( as well as apparently not being allowed to actually say Suicide Squad... )
I think I can speak for all the Supernatural fans out there when I say we didn't care if the show lost a bit of focus. It came to be a kind of comfort watch after a while.
Heroes, I super agree. EVERYONE was saying "Save the cheerleader, save the world" during that first season, even if they didn't know what it meant. The decision to make The Man With the Horn-rimmed Glasses or Sylar into sympathetic characters was, in my opinion the move that killed the show,
I also agree that, as much as you might like Felicity, she was a background character.
I agree with you about about Hero’s. Once the story got away from the cheerleader and Peter Petrelli. It all went downhill
I didn't mind when they made the Man With the Horn-rimmed Glasses into a sympathetic character, because they did it well enough that his actions could at least be explained. Making Sylar sympathetic and keeping the character such a prominent character for each of the seasons was just annoying.
Yep, was just commenting on sexyvillain syndrome. Sometimes expanding a part or turning a character into a antihero/good guy because fan interest can work...think Coulson, but more often than not, its a disaster that ruins a brilliant villain turn and snatches away a satisfying climax. @@jormungaurd
Yeah, as much as I loved Zachery Quinto the Sylar character just got away from them.
Can't agree on Supernatural. Loved the first 5 seasons but it became rinse-and-repeat and boring after that. It's a serious issue in Western television that shows are drawn out long past their expiration dates and lose direction, and why so many shows just fizzle out at the end.
Honestly, Oliver and Felicity had more chemistry and a less toxic relationship than Oliver and Laurel. If Oliver got together with Laurel he would have been with his best friend's girlfriend, after said friend died. That would have been much more toxic. Arrow had a real problem with killing off characters, though, as in they did it way too often.
I loved supernatural I wanted that thing forever with my boys! But I do see how later seasons were dragged out and not so great.
A good list, but it also needed Westworld; perhaps the most deserving to be on this list.
If you want to enjoy the black sheep season of Westworld, just pretend it's not Westworld, but some other show entirely.
@@radivel1 was that the last season? Maybe it's worth my watch. I stopped watching after season 3. Season 3, episodes 2 and 6 (if I remember correctly) were great, but the others very boring and very hard to sit through, and I was a die-hard-fan before that.
Entire last season of How I met Your Mother. Need I say more.
agree... i still think that all the mid seasons showed that Robin and Ted wasn't made to be together in a very long relation. And make us see Tracy on some flashback for few episodes and then made her die was one of the worst finale they could have made.
While I agree that the last two seasons were a low point, they didn't "doom" the series. The whole problem was they decided to split the planned final season into 2 seasons. It was always going to be ending so it didn't "doom" it, but it WAS a poor decision
Not even the last season in its entirety, more like the last *episode*
Heroes will forever be heartbreaking to me. That first season was exhilarating and the follow up was so disappointing. They suffered from sexyvillain syndrome where shows refuse to kill off a villain because people love them/want to shag them(looking at you TVD) Prison Break, like Lost should have either been limited series or an anthology series, like Heroes. Look to the longevity of AHS.
Oh, Fear of the Walking Dead. I loved your 1st 3 seasons because it followed a family through a non comic book look at the zombie outbreak. its small cast of characters was a nice change from the original walking dead and they weren't afraid to kill off characters.
Then that new show runner came in and the the cast ballooned. Theres a lot of characters now that just disappeared. when you got a character that doesn't show up for half a season, then you know you got too many characters.
season 1-3: good. loved them
4: bland with not much happening
5: probably the worst season of any walking dead show after Tales of the Walking Dead
6: I big improvement. John Glover was awesome in it. It ended in a way to do something new in a walking dead...
7: ... but they decided to take all that potential and piss it away. While not the worst season of Walking Dead, it was the biggest let down in what could have been
I think if Heroes had dropped the first season cast and used a whole new one would have been less successful. The viewers would have probably demanded to know what happened to the original cast instead of getting to know the new. Keep in mind that the most prominent of the new characters in season 2 (Adam, the Dominican twins, and Micah's cousin) pretty much disappeared at the end of the season or early in S3.
I think S2 focusing on a new cast with some minor roles or cameos from the old cast could have been cool. Also, each of the seasons could have had somewhat self-contained stories, but Sylar could have returned each time and been the overall villain that the final season could have tackled. There's a lot they could have done with it.
So, the Arrow complaint got weirdly specific very quickly, because I think it would have seemed more obvious what they were really saying if they'd honestly admitted the flaw was "being original instead of just copying the comics exactly."
I'd prefer to think of "Heroes" as a one season show. Unfortunately, it was marred at the end, because instead of the epic fight between two high-powered individuals, we got... well, what we got.
I was OK with "Prison Break".
"Batwoman" had so MUCH promise... and they manage to choke the life out of that promise as early as possible. I think the writers must have been hopped up on goofballs for the first season. I don't know or care what happened in the second, but I think the lead actress abandoned the ship before it did her career more damage.
"Arrow" suffered greatly when the writers had the love affair with Felicity. I think she was IT in the first season, and by the end I think she had been a world-class hacker and CEO of a tech company. I could write a book on how the writers flunked economics and common sense when it came to Queen Industries.
I imagine somebody has already done a "13 Reasons Why" they should have kept it as a single season show. I think it's better to do a nice adaptation of a book as a limited series, rather than to try to make it a franchise.
I'd add "Riverdale" to this list. I liked the first season a great deal. After that, it went downhill fast.
The Simpsons. Not making The Simpsons Movie the finale.
When the majority of the writers moved on to different projects by the end of season 8 and the new ones failed to maintain the same quality, they should have brought it to an end with the movie being the perfect opportunity, but the show was still a huge ratings draw and a cash cow for Fox. Unfortunately, The Simpsons became a shell of its former self with painfully unfunny jokes, rehashed storylines and a heavy overreliance on self-references. The terrible seasons have far outnumbered the good ones and tarnished its own legacy.
Having supernatural on here makes no sense. It wasn't doomed after season 5 if it lasted 10 more years 😂
I admit that I initially thought the final season of GoT wasn’t that bad. The longer I thought about it, however, the worse it got. I REALLY REALLY hope that they don’t botch House of the Dragon, as the first season was excellent. They have to trust George RR Martin when he emphasizes that the GoT universe is best handled like a super-marathon, and not a 100m dash.
GRRM has yet to complete the F&I series to this day and is the main reason why the final season seemed rushed… with the “creators” unable to copy and paste,,, they were left to do some actual writing and they were exposed by what was the final product
7:07 I kind of feel like anyone who was surprised at THAT turn of events needs to rewatch the first few seasons. Seasons 1 and 2 practically treated its source material like fatal allergy and it was ALWAYS overly melodramatic. I still remember my eyes just about rolling out of my head at the season 2 reveal that Oliver's sister was actually the daughter of their father's business partner, a soap opera trope so run into the ground that tv shows had been making fun of it for over a decade before Arrow as even release
It's clear that killing off Laurel was done purely for shock value as she was quickly replaced by an alternate version of herself that more-or-less assumes the same identity
The great irony of most TV shows is popularity ruins them. Writers and producers have a story they want to tell but audiences don't like a particular character or actor. Or they try to end something early and it just keeps churning out more episodes such as how M*A*S*H lasted about 4 times as long as the Korean War and the gifted kids on Head of the Class were in high school for 5 years or how That 70s Show went on well into the 1980s. It's a strange medium and one that walks a tightrope. The Walking Dead's biggest problem was sticking too close to the comic's source. I don't think anyone was upset to see Rick or Carl (Cor-al) go, but Glenn Rhee became such a fan favorite, his death also killed the show. Also, Negan was nothing more than a pompous arrogant jerk that was just Jeffrey Dean Morgan doing his Edward Blake/The Comedian schtick from Watchmen. I couldn't believe in the TV show how anyone would've listen to him nonetheless taken orders from him.
That 70s Show technically ended at midnight 1/1/1980 but to your point they completely ignored the passage of time when it was convenient to the plot. Canonically the last three seasons happened over the last 8 months of 1979, as improbable as that is.
I think that's where some of the British TV shows have the edge, either because money is less important to broadcasters than quality compared to the US, or writers have more power, very popular and successful shows often have only a very limited run eg Fawlty Towers (2 Seasons), Blackadder (4 series), The IT Crowd (4 Seasons), Green Wing (2 seasons), Coupling (3 Seasons) , Porridge (3 Seasons), Hyperdrive (2 Seasons) - all excellent shows that didn't outstay their welcome or drop significantly in quality.
@@eddyrichards8474 I was surprised to learn Fawlty Towers only had 12 episodes. The old Honeymooners only ran for 39 episodes.
Well, M*A*S*H never stated that one season is one year in real time. And the show has 251 episodes, so you can somehow fit it in three year war. But the main point is that the length of the war or historical accuracy was never a focus of the show and it didnt make a difference in the quality of the show.
@@eddyrichards8474 but then of course, there are still British shows that seem to go on forever, like Doctor Who (26 seasons)
dont forget Fringe. the last season was just atrocious. sure it was becoming pretty repetitive, but the direction they took it was just embarrassing to the built up narrative.
Fear the Walking Dead really lost its way for a while. Season 3 was beautifully done and it was dark. I wasn't entirely thrilled about Morgan joining, and I'm still not feeling it. I wish Frank Dillane had stayed on the show, but I can understand why he left. And what they did with John Dorie really sucked. Garrett Dillihunt really made the character intriguing.
Heroes' greatest superpower was to have absolutely nothing drive the plot forward for multiple episodes in a row, yet to somehow maintain viewership.
Most. Disappointing. Superpower. Show. EVER.
The Oliver and Felicity romance was not a mistake. His chemistry with Laurel was non-existent. Killing Laurel was a mistake, but the romance was the best call.
im surprised that the witcher didnt get on the list
OMG, RIGHT?!?!
LOST?
Another one that was written as a one season one shot and then had to make shit up to keep the money rolling in.
I don't think Supernatural got THAT bad until right up to those last 3 seasons, and even then there was a couple of good episodes. And I didn't hate that ending at all. Dean went out defending kids, got to stay young and badass in Heaven with his car and didn't have to deal with his body breaking down (I seriously doubt Dean would be a guy who handled his body breaking down until he couldn't hunt anymore well) with his passed on family around him and then reunited with Sam, who got to live his "normal" life and then reunited with everyone he loved at the end as a reward for both. I'm totally fine with that. But a huge chunks of the rest of those last 3 seasons were pretty painful.
The Walking Dead should’ve ended after season 5.
It certainly did for me. Greed kept it going.
My interest to watch The Walking Dead died finally when nobody managed to kill Negan during Seasons 7 and 8. Besides the zombies became rather secondary characters and the plot started to repeat with a similar kind of pattern. A new strange group of people who were lead by more or less mad dictator. I think the Governor was the best villain in the series because he didn't have endless resources to fight and he tried to hide his true motives.
The Neegan cliffhanger from The Walking Dead was EPIC. I will die on that hill. Always. Forever.
I think that the decision to kill Carl off was what ULTIMATELY killed the show. After Gimple decided to give him the axe, Lincoln and Gurira decided to leave, as well. Also, the decision to kill Glenn off, ‘in order for Maggie to get to her ultimate destination, and grow as a character’ (as a great leader) wasn’t even how it happened!! Gimple kept saying Glenn’s death had to happen, and there was no getting around it. Then they kill Glenn off, and refuse to give Cohan any more money than she was already making, even though she’s now a leader of one of the main communities, and has a MUCH bigger part in the show (not to mention the tension between her and Negan).
Lincoln and Reedus were reportedly making about 4 times as much as Cohan. She tried to negotiate with Gimple for a raise (not even at the same amount as Lincoln and Reedus, just a pay bump), and he refused, so she left the show. And rightly so! Right after that, Gimple was replaced as showrunner by Angela Kang, who promptly negotiated a much better contract/pay raise for Cohan, and got her back on the show. Thank goodness.
Gimple made a whole HOST of bad decisions, which led to the downfall of this show. Remember the Glenn death fake out?! That was some real bullshit, right there. I always wonder what might have happened to the show if Kang had initially taken over after Darabont left… We wouldn’t have had to deal with Mazzarra or Gimple, and their collectively shitty decisions. 🙄😕
I know people lost their shit over the cliffhanger, but I grew up not getting instant gratification, so that didn’t bother me one bit. 🤣🤣🤷🏻♀️
@@tiabeaniesemotionalsupportdmon And let's be honest, Neegan's introduction may very well be the best character introduction in the history of television. The fact that it was a season finale only made it better.
I completely disagree with Supernatural. Yes, it went beyond Kripke's original story arc, but so what? It was nowhere near a "directionless shell." Each subsequent season had its own arc and the series remained compelling until almost the very end (the only part that I would call a "directionless shell" was the series finale, which was a disaster compared to the rest of the series).
6:18 so, we just gonna disrespect Smallville like that?
There were really only two scenes from Glee that really grabbed me: Artie's Safety Dance number, and the Dream On duel between NPH and Will. Those were freaking brilliant. Nothing else really clicked for me.
Not even "What does the Fox say?" With the puppets?
Prison Breaks First Season was absolutely FANTASTIC. I stopped watching during Season 3 . It just wasn't compelling anymore. Compare that to a show like Oz or Justified which were shows that I looked forward to EVERY Season
This list should include Vampire Diaries, one of my favourite shows but should have finished when Nina left, series seven and eight were a painful cash grab
The Neegan cliff hanger wasn't horrible for the show. Glen dies just like the comics. And Abraham died too. It was a good end to a great season and the start of another good season. Definitely slowed way too down after those Two seasons but the show didn't really stop being the show. Nothing close to the changes and fall off FTWD had
Truth! Fear fell all the way off after Season 3!
Game of Thrones Season 7 is the real dipping point. It was also a shorter season and the start of plot threads getting wrapped up too quickly, like Dany flying a dragon from King's Landing to north of The Wall in a single episode and Sam Tarley's training as a maester being completed in a few episodes.
By the time Season 8 started limping and skipping to the finish line, fans were already losing hope.
If they'd done 3 more 10 episode seasons, with a few bonus episodes between seasons with exposition fleshing out important characters or setting up big moments, it could have been glorious.
Disagree about GOT. To me, the show was primarily driven by the question of whether Daenerys would go apeshit with power as the Mad King did. The show answered that brilliantly with the rampage of Kings Landing. Character arcs did not end the way people hoped.
What? You’re surprised? Since the beginning, people suffered unpopular fates. Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Marjorie Tyrell and so on. Ah well….
Firefly. We all know why.
And The X FIles. As soon as Duchovny wanted out, they should've ended it. You can't just replace a main character (as much as I love Robert Patrick, and Annabeth Gish), after 7/8 seasons. In my rewatches, I just stop at the Season 7 finale.
7:01 leading lady? LEADING LADY???!!!
Laurel‘s character in the first seasons can literally be described as whiny, problematic, and selfish….
She was never emotionally right enough to be a “leading lady”
Not sure where you got your information, but the chemistry between Oliver and Laurel DID NOT WORK. It just... didn't. And as a comic book fan, I wasn't into putting Laurel with someone who cheated with her sister, anyway.
Next time you do a list like this, kindly do a little research before you blame a character for the show's penchant for needless drama.
There was a broad writer's strike that happened after the first season of "Heroes" that affected the show when they tried continuing without them. The strike wasn't _because_ of "Heroes," it was a show encompassed within the strike
I'm sorry little to no explanations??? She was unhinged the entire SERIES! The only thing that kept her grounded was her friends around her. Remove them and she stays unhinged. By far the most accurate build up if that final season.
game of thrones started to go down hill earlier than the 8th season, it started in season 5, with the script, "you need a bad p....", and the endless c*ck jokes from Tyrion which is all he became. The show went for spectacle rather than substance it was known for, an example of this is battle of bastards, Sansa did not tell Jon the Vale was there? all so D&D could have their own Helmsdeep charge? Bringing back Rickon just for that? And then nobody caring that he is dead? Show had a long fall, it was not just 1 season.
I'm gonna call out the Batwoman opinion.
I think it held up through the first season. The Alice/Kate relationship was a great dynamic.
But, look, if you any of you producers out there a paying attention: You can recast a lead actor. It's okay. Real-world shit happens. But to replace the lead actor and then, for some reason, also change the lead character at the same time....what the fuck were you thinking?
You spent a season building a show on the relationship between the main character and the main villain. And you did it pretty well.
They you just got rid of the main character. Created a new main character. And everything fell on its face because everything you'd built up had no legs to stand on. The pretty compelling villain just...kind of floated there and people stopped caring.
Also I don't care about Arrow but it's extremely weird to call a ship on it "non-canon" when it was literally canon. To the show it was on. Because the show was not the comics. Comic fans are so weird.
I don't consider a tv show with a ten year run doomed.
I 100% agree about Prison Break, I absolutely loved the first season but once they had broken out of prison it went massively downhill and the title didn't make any sense!
Batwoman was doomed because the writers completely abandoned the source material and never gave her any background, character development, motive or qualifications for dawning the cape. In comics she was a cop and army veteran who was inspired by Batman.
Alias is one I will mention with the British Spy plot that ruined the series I think half way through. Also the only season of 24 I hated was the Jack's Father and Son season. That was just terrible writing all together. I'm not sure if that was after the writers strike but oooof awful.
LOST and Stranger Things SHOULD have been on here
Both messed up and went on too long
Doctor Who season Whittaker should have gone away too
Apparently Glee was supposed to get a spin off series following the New York story line, and glee would focus on the McKinley side. But the New York story line failed they just decided to to split the focus of the show
"Lost" could easily have been a "bonus" inclusion to this list. A clever premise with ultimately no direction and no resolution to significant plot points and twists. Ending with an unforeseen commentary on religious universalism. Totally inability to finish a story.
Obviously the script writers aren’t aware of any tv shows in the last millennium. For them to describe Negans entrance as the worst cliffhanger in tv history never heard of Bobby getting out of the shower in Dallas
Dunno.. I liked House M.D. a lot at first - but then it kinda strayed away horribly from all that I liked about it. And then it got just ...Meh.
13 Reasons Why should not be on this list.
The show was emasculate & its biggest issue is the weak ass sensitivity society has, ya’ll would rather shield your eyes from the truth than be forced to admit that those things really happen to youth.
All right let's get something straight right now the arrowverse was never comic book accurate. It was much more Batman story than it was Green Arrow story Felicity at least made it refreshing and worth watching
The Negan cliff hanger was brilliant, what you on about? Everyone was talking about it
The excellent show Reacher has an important decision to make. It has a great ensemble cast, but in the novels Reacher starts each book in a new town with new characters. Will they attempt to keep him in the same sleepy town to keep the ensemble cast or will they stay true to the books? I fear their decision...
Game of Thrones started to go down hill the moment they ran out of source material. you can see that moment when the characters suddenly developed plot armour. I'll allow Jon Snow but that was because it was an open end, not a complete drop (though they could have waited an episode before even returning to the wall to make it seem like it was a possibility he was dead).
It's almost certain that Jon Snow will also survive in the books. The difference will be that in the books, Melisandre is right there when Jon gets stabbed, so she's not going to need to wait for days between death and trying to revive him it will probably happen that same night which still is plot armor but they've established the red priests/priestesses have that ability.
I'm sorry but I loved all of arrow so I disagree with that one but Supergirl became stale and flash got dragged on too long
I LOVE Supernatural. It may have gone longer than it was [originally] supposed to be, but it's was always a great show, in my opinion. Personally, I prefer the latter seasons to the first few. NONE of the seasons are bad, or even mediocre, but some are still better than others.
❤ agre
Totally agree 💯
Sorry but Supernatural was amazing it's whole run. It was like a fine wine it just got better with age.
To sum up - vast majority of the time showrunners ruin it - either being too stubborn to properly end a show or letting their egos loose fans be damned
I don't understand why so many people threw such bratty tantrums over GoT.
Yal always say the walking dead got bad but if u pay attention it's as good as it's ever been if u actually watched dead city Daryl Dixon was amazing and 9 through 11 of the last season of og show was awesome too.
Angela Kang becoming showrunner, replacing Gimple, successfully renegotiating Lauren Cohan’s contract and bringing her back to the show, and getting those last couple of decent seasons out did kind of bring it back from the dead, so to speak.
Chuck is my all time favorite show and was doomed by bad scheduling. It was competing against Dancing with the Stars, How I Met Your Mother, and House. If it was scheduled on Tuesday or Wednesday, it would have been a rating success.
Chuck holds the top spot for TV shows for me as well.
I enjoyed most of it, but it did go one season too many. The Big Bad of the final season was frankly ridiculous, and only kept escaping through the liberal use of Plot Armour.
@@markchapman6800 I agree the last season was not as good as the others. The intersect should never been given to anyone but Chuck. I am rewatching the last season right now and the last couple episodes gives a lot of plot lines for a future Chuck movie. The season four finale did not give that.
it also went against Monday Night Football
@@markchapman6800 bro can i be 100% honest with you? chuck is one of my favorite tv shows and i have watched it more than 5 times (i only found out about the show 1-2 years ago) but i have never watched the last season... when they made sara lose her memories i just couldn't watch it...
Kate Kane wasn’t well received when she killed Batman. Are you insane? She’s been hated from the start. And it has the worst writers I’ve ever seen in tv history. And I WATCHED the whole first season, I think. Certainly something like 13-17 episodes until another crossover, at least. It’s garbage. I’d rather watch Paramount’s Halo, despite them ruining one of my top 3 franchises, ever. It still has better writers, if you don’t treat it like Halo… and don’t care about the war crimes of sleeping with a POW.
there is literally without exaggeration about 150+ tv shows i'd ratter watch than watching one episode of batwoman...
Well... I liked GoT and even if the last season felt indeed rushed and could have used at least one more episode (two would have been probably better) I was satisfied with it. I know that there are sooo many other people who didn't liked it but there are different kind of tastes. And everybody who says that Dani's change of character was a complete surprise: Have you watched the series?!? Sure, it was rushed, but not THAT surprising....
And I never understood why the Negan cliffhanger was that badly received! I thought it was a hell of a cliffhanger and quite liked it.... And the dead of Glen was overdue (even if I really, really liked the character!) because as as far as I'm aware he dies a lot earlier in the books....
Couldn't agree more with both series. I had very early the feeling that Dany would become the Mad Queen at the End. The signs were always there. Sometimes she was very cruel and merciless.
With Glenn: I always had the feeling that he was standing in the way for Maggie's character development. I don't think she would have become the leader of Hilltop with Glenn at her side. But Glenn dies the same way in the comics. Abraham was dead at this point already. He GoT Denise's TV-death (crossbow bolt through the eye).