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I have some head cannon on why beerus is so strong that you may like. He is image training while he sleeps, and because his body is sleeping and resting in his dreams he will have no limit to how long he can image train for. He did say his mind is always on destruction and in his dream he fought against a super Saiyan god. If you can sleep for years and you don't have to worry about getting tired because of your training in your sleep. The his power could in fact be limitless, and every new form Goku and Vegeta get is just another thing he can use during these sessions. He could be training for weeks while he sleeps.
Beerus did not seek out Goku because he wanted to fight the strongest. It's because the fish predicted he'd be stronger than Beerus. So Beerus had to see what's up.
The whole point of Goku's journey in the series is that there's always another level for him to work towards. It wouldn't make sense for him to not eventually surpass Beerus especially since it's been implied all throughout Super that Goku is slowly but surely getting close to his tier of power.
Actually the very OPPOSITE is true. Goku's Story is based in Journey to the West where he SURPPASED ALL GODS and achieved Nirvana This is why GT is the true end to Goku's story. He surpassed all the deities, absorbed the Dragonballs then transcended reality itself. Like the true Sun Wukong, Goku becomes the literal God of the DB Universe in GT so trash super can suck it
@@jdrmanmusiqkingGT is still garbage. Just because goku is inspired from son wukong, doesn't mean he has to share the same fate. There will always be some level he can't reach. That's what pushes him to be stronger. That's Master roshi's teaching
This just goes to show that Beerus isn't an interesting character anymore and has largely been _wasted_ as a concept. Beerus' motivations with Goku _should be_ greater than simply wanting to fight the best. Why? - because that's _Goku's character._ And we've _seen that before,_ many times in-fact. When you get down to it, each Dragon Ball Z villain is a dark reflection of Goku - Vegeta is who he could've become had he not bumped his head. Frieza is who Goku would become if he grew complacent with his level of power. Cell is _literally_ all of Goku's worst qualities. And Buu is basically an Evil Goku - an eating-machine who fights for fun, but doesn't care if he kills. Beerus following this trend isn't keeping with a theme; it's just a lazy retread at this point. When Beerus literally could've been something so new and so different that he'd actually be _unique_ for once. Beerus' character in the Battle of Gods movie was much better than how he was in the Super Anime. Because the movie actually played on the ambiguity of this character - subtly implying the danger of him being a short-tempered time-bomb, but ultimately establishing that he serves an _essential purpose_ in the grand scheme of the Universe. The Anime? - Yeah, Beerus is _evil._ Like, irredeemably evil because he literally does what all the other villains of Z do - blow-up planets when things don't go his way. He literally cuts a planet _in-half,_ - disintegrating half of the entire population, and dooming the other half to a catastrophic apocalypse - all because _he didn't like their dessert._ That character is an asshole who abuses his position and power because literally no one can stop him - that's Frieza _again!_ But the Movie? The movie isn't perfect, but it laid the groundwork for something that had the potential to be a great character that made a great commentary. Beerus was a chance to explore the "Lonely God" archetype. When Beerus wakes up from his 50 year nap prematurely by 11 years or so, the reason he does is because he has a prophetic dream that a _True Rival_ will emerge to challenge him to a fight. And instead of feeling _threatened_ by this, he's _excited by it._ He wants someone to challenge him, because he wants someone _on his level._ Why? Because Beerus is literally so powerful, that everyone he meets treats him differently than they would their peers. Everyone is so intimidated by his power and authority that they walk on eggshells when around him, and feel the need to _placate him._ But Beerus knows, none of this is for his benefit; they fear him and are merely trying to _survive him._ Beerus knows that any relationship he has will _always_ be asymmetrical, because he's so high above everyone in the Universe. Heck, Beerus isn't even liked among his Godly-Peers. The 50 years that he naps for are the happiest times of peace for the Kais. It's clear his caretaker Whis is just a servant who doesn't really care for him, and merely exists to - barely - keep him in line. And the only other god that seems to tolerate his presence is his own twin brother, who is only ever interested in competing with him. Beerus knows that no one enjoys his company; in obtaining the highest power in the Universe, he has become utterly alone and now has nothing. It's probably why he abuses his position so much, as a means of getting back at the cold indifferent universe, by returning that cold indifference. But then think about what happens from the moment he meets Goku. Here was a mortal who _wasn't_ afraid of him. This strange Saiyan on North Kai's planet simply walked up to him and introduced himself in a friendly manor. And even after a disappointing demonstration, he still challenged him to a sparring match. For the first time in his godly career, a mortal actually treated Beerus like a normal person. Sure, he curb-stomped Goku during their exhibition, but I think he could sense that Goku would want nothing less. Then he pops down to Earth to speak to Vegeta. And the Prince literally does what Beerus has grown to hate; the sycophantic genuflection born entirely out of fear. However, what's more astonishing is who Vegeta is _surrounded by._ Vegeta knows full well who Beerus is, but the congregation at Bulma's party _don't._ And what happens? _They invite Beerus to join them._ - Not out of fear, but out of genuine hospitality and friendliness. And Beerus actually accepts and seems to enjoy himself. He's dancing with them, and enjoying all kinds of delicious earth foods. And Beerus was literally so happy in this scene, that he'd forgotten all about the Super Saiyan God stuff he came here for. See what's really going on here? Beerus doesn't want someone on his level so that he can have a rival. _Beerus wants a friend._ Someone who genuinely chooses him and who won't be intimidated by his power; someone he could have a genuine relationship with where the disparity between them won't taint their interactions. I think that's the real reason that he gives Goku a chance to make a Super Saiyan God, and then fight him once he's succeeded. And even why he spares the earth even though Goku loses. It wasn't just about Goku, but also the Earthlings at the party; they were the first people to not treat Beerus like he was some kind of monster or a bomb, and genuinely let him into their lives. And while Beerus doesn't show it, I know deep down _that's what he appreciates the most._ Sure he'll probably claim he views them as his "pets" or something, but deep down, he _cares_ about them. Heck, if I were writing that movie, I'd have the conflict be caused by a lot more than Buu refusing to _share the pudding_ with him. Maybe give a better reason for Beerus to flip out the way he did...like, say...He's _very protective_ of his job as a Destroyer, and he just realized the fat-blob at the party is _Majin Buu_ - a creature that literally threatened his job security. More importantly, I think this would make Beerus a character who learned as much from Goku as Goku does from him. Goku has achieved a level of power greater than any earthling, any Saiyan, any Mortal could hope to achieve. And yet he's surrounded by a support group of family, friends and loved ones. It shows Beerus that the path to power is _not_ a lonely one. That Goku, who is on the cusp of being a god himself, is not a lonely god like him. And that maybe Beerus himself doesn't have to be a lonely god either...that maybe he could belong with this group. Heck, I often dream that if Beerus is ever forced to destroy the Earth, he'll actually kidnap all the humans from earth first and take them to his planet, just so he can spare their lives.
Take my damn like cause you said the sad truth of Beerus as a character now and what he should be. Everyone thought Beerus was a beast at the start of Super (or in the Z movies BoG+RoF) and now look at him, nothing but an uninteresting character who fell wayside to Goku and Vegeta's theater and play - with a sprinkle of ectoplasm being shun on a couple side characters to "prove" they actually matter.
Manga Beerus is stronger than his anime self. The ever moving goal post for plot, if I was going to wrap up the finally of DBS... I would have Vegeta become the new G.O.D. after beerus, have Broly as the Jiren of U7 as a protector maybe even join the Galaxy patrol, Goku would be the ultimate martial arts master for a mortal or give him a new journey for Goku to go to U6 and visit the earth and planet sadala.
Good video! Normally I tease that these are all about Goku but I usually watch every video anyways. I love Goku and I also like the idea of Beerus getting stronger off screen while meditating or training.
Beerus is a moving goal post whose only purpose In the current day is to be there as a reminder on how Dragon Ball as a franchise, refuses to plug on so that they have an excuse to keep going and thus more and more money would be made forever. The worse part is how this entire deceptive beerus scaling by Toei and the rest of the official Dragon Ball writing teams constantly fed us this argument by the narrative how this is a good thing as a 'Oh look at how much Goku has to grow,' When time and time again, when Goku gets some new form or technique, all the official marketing hypes it up as 'oh he's finally on beerus's level' and other anime quotes where they indirectly imply that he's about to be on par with him (0:40 for the Whis quote, comparing Jiren's strength to all the Gods of destruction, Beerus included) and then a few years later backtracking that immediately in the manga was saying how he's eons ahead still. It's absolute Insanity and I'm over it, does Beerus bring anything to the narrative anymore? He's certainly not a villain, we don't need to fear him turning on the good guys, but he's not exactly a helpful Ally either. Hell Whis contributes more to not just Goku and the others when they need assistance, but also to the story as an actual person more than he ever will. At this point, Beerus is a nothing character, who contributes nothing, threatens nothing in the narrative, and worst of all, Even be seen as a future milestone given the state of media franchising and how you know damn well they want to milk this shit forever. It's sad to see given how much I and I think a lot of other people loved hom back when he was introduced in Battle of Gods
I said it at the very beginning of Battle of God's, that introducing Beerus and Whis at the start was a mistake. Having the "End Boss" show up at the very beginning and have them be God level means nothing goes above that. Except other stronger gods. Narratively, it was a hole to big to start climbing out of and everything you said proves just that.
Im glad you bought up the ultra ego thing. The way I think about it is, if a novice newbie with ultra ego can grow stronger by taking damage, perhaps a master can grow stronger passively and completely independent of their opponent. Beerus is that master, and judging from the jumps in growth vegeta was showing, beerus is probably literally growing more powerful for simply being a god of destruction It kind of makes sense, because it would disrupt the balance of the universe, as a mortal growing more powerful than a god of destruction can completely ruin the way things are set up. Imagine if a wicked character that loved to destroy planets was too powerful for Beerus to stop. They would destroy more than what would be allowed and cause a serious problem.
With Toriyama's passing, Goku defeating Beerus is a 50/50. Toyotarou could make Goku defeat Beerus, which mean Uub is meant to be stronger than Beerus when Super ends. Or Toyotarou could keep to what Toriyama wants and have Goku never defeat Beerus, which means Uub is just a stepping stone for Goku to get closer to Beerus's power when Super ends. Which is pretty dumb either way. Should had never made Dragonball Super in between the 10 year time gap of Buu and Uub.
Uub doesn't have to be stronger than Beerus. He's ultimately a loose end plot from Z. Goku can take on the teacher role and raise Uub up to his level. It's a different progression of his martial arts journey while still growing and learning himself. A way for his role to continue on beyond him. It's been a continuing issue that Goku and Vegeta are just about the two strongest forces for good in U7. Broly was introduced on their level and is being trained to control that power. Gohan and Piccolo only just received forms that bring them up instead of being a few steps behind. Uub should only be about the same power as Buu, and Goku could train him up as a human on the same level as the Saiyans.
At the end of Z, Goku goes to train Uub. In the super Manga, Dende ask Goku to train Uub during the TOP arc. Goku has always been a teacher for Uub and the way the last chapter appeared, Beerus looks scared of Goku and Gohan. They tear up his planet and Beerus just yells about it. He didn't even threaten them. And then at the end of he Granola Arc, Whis and Goku ask the Oracle fish if Frieza is U7 strongest and the fish states someone stronger is coming which might have been Gohan or a trained Broly. Yeah, Beerus may not be the strongest anymore because Whis is stronger than Beerus. And lately Goku only trains with Whis.
I don't think Goku should ever surpass Beerus. Even when Whis said Beerus used about 70 % of his power. I always believed it's from his heavily supressed power whatever it was. Since he is now an ally, Goku defeating him will mean nothing.
Beerus and Goku probably won't happen because while it would be nice to see that fight happen again, does it really even matter? Beerus losing, would be stupid. Goku losing, would be a bit of a waste. I wonder if Daima will touch more on this, or will it separate everything.
I think Dragon Ball Hakai had a interesting twist where Goku becomes a destroyer. That way even if Goku becomes stronger it's not that bad since he is a destroyer. If Goku, Vegita, etc can get stronger there's no reason that other characters from Krilin to Daishankan can't get stronger. Maybe everyone is getting stronger and that's why the gap between certain characters is still large. It would make sense. Who knows, maybe Goku was actually stronger than Beerus and the other destroyers but they all been training so the gap was 'restored'
No goku has set his goal on the grand priest. I forgot what chapter ( i think post TOP or moro arc) There was a time in the chapter where Goku was discussing MUI with whis. Whis said he was at the bottom of the barrel in terms of MUI. And goku was pumped to get to the top.
I disagree with this notion simply because the only option left is to go into the realms of fighting other gods and then eventually the angels. If they wanted to expand it, they could make him lose one more time and then have Goku and Vegeta travel to other universes and then come back to beat the gods enemies and then beerus and finally goin to fight angel villains and then beat the gp himself.
Honestly I like the idea that Goku maxxes out and Uub is the one that in the end truly masters UI. They did that boy dirty in GT and he needs a redemption.
I agree with what I think is the top comment so far. Maybe it shouldn’t happen right away, but I do think that Goku should surpass him considering it seems like that’s what we are working towards by the end of this. Not to mention, and I know a lot of people are gonna probably hate me for saying this, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but at the end of GT Goku is also at that level of power, which means even if he didn’t surpass him by that point, he’s even closer than as well.
I'm often agree with you, for example when you talk of GT. But here I totally disagree. - It's too dangerous : After BoG, when Gokû unlocks SSJ Blue or even Ultra Instinct, nothing happens, so it seems this battle have a retcon for his dangerosity, and even with this element, this is possible to create a dimension, or to return in the place of the tournament of power to fight without risks. Same for fights against Hakaishins, or fights against Angels themselves. - Beerus is pathetic if he is beaten by Gokû : I disagree, so with this logic, Kame Sennin is pathetic because Gokû learns in 5 seconds what he manages to learn in 50 years. Or Gokû caught Karin in 3 days, against 3 years for Kame Sennin. Same for Kami, Kaio, he surpasses his masters very fast. He surpasses even the power of gods in Boo Saga. Kaioshins are a joke for Z-Team. DB and DBZ are great because they don't put gods in a piedestal like many others stories. I'm tired of this trope, and Super waste a good thing in the original story again... The God ki is ridiculous, useless in story, and describes Saiyans like noobs unable to keep the level against Beerus. Even more with Gokû who is depict in the original story as the ultimate warrior and fighter, it makes absolutely no sense that any of theses Hakaishins, Angels, Grand Priest or even Zeno causes difficulties for Gokû. Yeah Beerus has million years of training, but Old Kaioshin too is here since very long time and he is no match for Gokû. Gokû is the fighter who makes in an instant what others can't make in years, decades, centuries, etc. I prefer Beerus to be pathetic than the original cast. Beerus don't act, don't interfere in the story, he is absolutely useless, he deserves totally to be pathetic in comparison of Gokû and others. He is not even good, so at any time, Hakaishins, Angels, Grand Priest and Zeno can erase planets, systems solars, galaxies and even universes. Gokû and others MUST be stronger than all of them to prevent a menace again. Otherwise the story makes no sense. Gokû and others train constantly, they deserve to surpass everybody in the multiverse and in the timelines, like in DB, DBZ and DBGT. Gokû with Shenron in GT is what Gokû deserves to be : the ultimate warrior in existence. Beerus is not pathetic if he loses against the ultimate warrior, it's an honor to lose against Gokû, there is nothing wrong with that. Yeah I prefer Beerus to be arrogant and to not train, because in the plot it makes no sense if he keeps training without saying it. And all future menaces are irrelevant, which is absolutely stupid for me. No tension, no danger. It's like Whis interrupts destruction of Earth in ressurection of Frieza. All arcs in DBS are a succession of "Oh we can beat Beerus", "Oh Beerus is now 1000000000 times stronger than before to not lose against Gokû and Vegeta", and bis repetita. I hate this formula. It's a shame to not use the tournament of power to create a rebellion against hierarchy and order. It's the most unfair order of all DB. And to see nothing against that disgusts me. You make Gokû stronger than in BoG and you can make Gokû fight against all these gods, it would be a very good story to eradicate all this order and bring back to peace, without the worry to be erased if a child is angry, or if Beerus doesn't have his pudding. I know Super is canon but I can't accept this chronology, I prefer to ignore these to be fine with Dragon Ball. Even in DBZ Kakarot it makes no sense, Gokû pathetic again to draw with a Vegeta SSJ2. It's Gokû the ultimate warrior, not Vegeta. Vegeta admits Gokû is the number one. It makes no sense to Vegeta to have this because Gokû would also have this, it's Gokû who learns to everybody how to improve, why suddenly Gokû is idiot and incapable to beat Vegeta with his SSJ3 ? Why Vegeta has still his arrogant, cocky attitude of Cell arc, and his clothes of Cell arc instead of clothes in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. I hate this trope to consider Gokû like an idiot again and again, in all DBS. It was the same problem with SSJ2 Trunks who can match SSJ3 Gokû, or Vegeta SSJ2 in DBS who is stronger than Gokû SSJ3. Now we have a story where it's Gokû the dumb, the laughing, the pathetic, etc. And yeah I choose all days Beerus to have this role instead of Gokû if one character must be dumb or whatever. It was just possible to write a story where Beerus trains, but Gokû trains even smarter and better and caught him. It was not impossible to shine all the characters, same for angels etc. Super just breaks all original story and made it awful. Even the story with Uub makes no sense. A bribe of Uub's power who surpasses Ultra Instinct ? Come on, people are really happy with this ? I see this like a total disrespect for Gokû. For me Super don't deserve to exist in this form, it creates many incoherences, destroy many characters and makes no sense with the goals of the characters. Gokû's journey is to always be stronger. And form the new generation. If we make a limit for Gokû, his story ends. In the contrary I imagine the only character who deserves to not have a limit to his power is Gokû, and to finish like in GT where he is nearly omnipotent 100 years after GT, and still able to progress. Or if he has a limit, make this limit beyond everybody. If they beat all the menaces in the existence, Gokû can be the strongest, and others are not needed to have this level to protect the existence after Gokû's end.
I dont think challenging or even losing to Goku would make Beerus a laughing stock amongst the other gods. Jiren was lauded by the other gods as being a mortal who was stronger than a god of destruction, and no one treated the destroyer of his universe as a joke, he even seems respected by the other destroyer gods.
Beerus stated in the manga that some of the gods are in fact stronger than him, like Quitla, and Vermouth, I will say that Beerus is amongst the strongest of the destroyer gods. He is however in fact, the defacto strongest in all of universe 7, maybe only being outclassed by whis, but since he is an angel he is obliged to stay out of others business or face being erased from existence by the all mighty himself.
Beerus never says anywhere he wants to fight the strongest, the only thing he even hints at is that he wants a fight that can entertain him. He's not looking to get beat up, he just wants to curb the boredom of being so much stronger than everyone else. It's part of why he was fine with suppressing his power to fight SSG Goku in BoG and why he was willing to lie about it. He wanted Goku trying his best and giving it his all so it would be a fun fight. The potential of Goku and/or Vegeta one day giving him an even more fun fight is why he lets them hang around on his planet training with Whis. Well, that and also because he views mortals as being too dependent on the gods and wants them to be able to solve their own problems without him needing to get involved, and Goku and Vegeta getting stronger is helpful in that regard. It's hard to say whether Goku will ever surpass Beerus as an individual or whether it will take him teaming up with Vegeta to finally win a fight against him, but it's probably going to happen just to wrap up the story arc they are undergoing. As for Uub, Goku wasn't excited about him just because of his desire to fight strong guys. He didn't even care about finishing his fight with Uub when they finally met. It wasn't about the fight, it was about measuring his power. Goku at this point has already finished his journey to grow stronger and is preparing to finally hand over the role of protector of Earth to the next generation of heroes. He was excited about Uub because from everything he knew about him, he was the best candidate to be Goku's successor. He's ridiculously strong and has a heart of gold to match. As such, he was eager to confirm this for himself and then take up the role of being his mentor. What this ultimately means for a canon sequel is that Uub is probably going to be the next main protagonist if such a sequel ever exists. Goku is finally finishing his main protagonist journey and retiring from heroism to let the next generation have their glory, something he's wanted since back when he was preparing Gohan to fight Cell.
I think Beerus needs to have more transformations, just like freezer. Goku and co. are close to beat him in base form but years away of beating him in any of his still unseen transformations.
I believe beerus power didnt change much since BoG, mainly because i dont think the main casts raw power have been increasing that much and they are just improving their skill and hacks. For exemple, if gokus total power is 100, his attacks would be 25 because he is wasting energy making his body tough and making his hair glow. While beerus power is 110, but he can put 110 in his attacks because he can instantly change and put everything to attack or defence
In the anime at least, its INCREDIBLY obvious that beerus has been surpassed, or at least his lvl has been meet with characters like mui or fp jiren. Personally it makes sense that in the manga he SHOULD beat beerus. Its the first fight of super, and it would be awesome if it was the last, and finally, he beats beerus.
To me Toriyama was Dragonball. When he died the last content that came out was where the door closed that is cannon to me. He never had Beerus officially surpassed so to me that's how it'll be in that universe.
Beerus isn’t allowed to fight other Destroyers (since they have the power to destroy their universes in a fight) and would be too afraid to ask Zeno for permission. I think Beerus is simply waiting for the prophecy of a rival, training, for Goku and/or Vegeta to be that foe.
they could fight full power if they ask Zeno... or maybe even Whis could pull it off. but I tend to think that Beerus is meant to be the strongest ... I think with the power levels of the main characters there wasn't a reasonable way to write them teachers that continuously are more powerful than / are more skilled than the master fighters Goku and Vegeta have become. In order for them to continue to progress there needs to be a mentor who has an untouchable level of power/experience... how about the strongest God who's millions of years old... Also, Beerus is a destroyer deity, good luck continuing the story if the villains are all multiversal... it would turn into an ass pull real fast. Also beerus's non interference policy makes him the perfect trainer with an unreachable power level, because there aren't questions of "why doesn't he do it?"
To be honest all the saiyans can surpass even all the angels with a normal wish due to their potential but it would make db boring for sure so we'll never seen them use the brain (if they wish to be able to generate the senzu beans every time they want from their hands, they would be able to instantly recover when they are almost dead after a fight/during a fight and becomes more powerful, they can even almost kill themselves to eat the senzu beans more and more times a day to become more and more powerful without problems surpassing every god of destruction and the angels without problems)
I don't think that would make Beerus look pathetic. I mean he already showed him up by being able to achieve UI in 40 years yeat Beerus couldn't in millions of years. How would Goku beating him with it make it any worse? Goku has always been far ahead of every single person in all of dragon ball at development and being in touch with these abilities to search within himself. Better than Buu, better than a perfectly generated cell made out of DNA from the greatest fighters in to universe, even Goku himself. Goku is meant to be a special case, it's his character. His whole story set him up to be that way. He was a child raised by a kind hearted man and then lived on his own doing nothing but being in touch with his inner self. It's the only way his mind can work. He's been trained by how many master's far older than him? Roshi himself is like a few hundred years old right? Then theirs Korin and king ki. Probably the grand Ki as well. Not to mention training with people who had been dead for God knows how many years. He trained with civilizations on other planets and then even with Beerus's own trainer who is literally an angel. His reach of understanding is already beyond even Beerus's at this point more than likely. Beerus could of course pass him again being immortal but I don't believe for a second that the rarity of Goku's like experience would in any way discredit Beerus. Goku has already beaten people older than time so why not? He said with a sensu bean he could have defeated an immortal who had just fused with an entire universe. He lifted grand Zeno up like a child... Goku already has a reach that extends past Beerus. If he was able to discredit Beerus as a character then he already has.
I do believe Goku will surpass Beerus eventually. I want to see the Grand Priest go evil and Goku take him down for Zenny and become the grand Priest. I’m reaching but one can dream
I thing the creators are going to have goku beat beerus because there IS another level of power. Zenos power. I think that they will have goku go on another training journey (with the grand priest or jiren or something) to try and reach Zenos power.
Maybe Goku was excited about Uubs potential and not how strong he was at that moment. He could have the potential to be but not be stronger than Beerus
Beerus being the eternal benchmark makes Uub’s place dubious Why would Goku abandon his family to train a kid who’ll never rival this god if destruction
The vision that beerus had wouldn't make sense if Goku can't eventually beat him or else whats the point of Super. Or did the vision of the super Saiyan God lose its meaning, I don't think thats the case and I don't think that it would affect beerus's character if Goku beat him. After all this is what beerus wants (Goku getting stronger).... I mean to me basically the entire DBS franchise is an underdog story with the mortals rising up to levels that baffle the Gods and even surpassing them. So Goku losing to beerus AGAIN doesn't make sense to me and that is why I think that Goku achieved the power that beerus couldn't it's foreshadowing the things to come
i prefer the scenario of goku wins against beerus , beerus is mad by beaten from a mortal then motivated enough to train again with whis and finally he taps into mui too 1st time. we already know he can use ui sign at will
Vegeta becomes the new God of destruction for universe 7. Goku beats Vegeta. They do palette swaps. Goku goes oh I dunno, white hair orange aura, vegeta is purple and orange aura, everyone is happy as ever. Then they do a new arc with more pallete swaps because they can't let it go, new baddie appears (bad guy Angel from universe infinite whatever). Maybe Gohan goes multicoloured. Who cares... The kids don't ever match up because they're not the top 3. Nothing ever happens.
I think they released ssg/ssb way too soon. Or even just too many forms in general. I reckon they could have not released any new forms until the end of TOP argubly
They might as well end super now and forever if they make goku unable to get past beerus or the angels. Hell why would goku bother training with whis to master ui. It would be pointless
I thought it was clear goku surpassed beerus in the anime? This also sells me on not reading the manga. Why would I ever want to read about a guy whose goal will never be achieved? There's no point in that.
I disagree. Goku has surpassed being far older than him and more experienced well before dbs for kami senin to kami, kais and kaioshin goku hs surpassed gods before beerus should not be an exception. It's just that they keep retcon'ing beerus power to always make him a benchmark for goku which is just dumb when they have already introduce characters far above beerus. Beerus isn't necessary to the story by any mean matter of fact he presence tarnish the aura a villain would have. Freeza, zamasu, moro would have been far more terrifying if beerus was not around getting all the plot conveniences buffs. In short it's just lazy writing
Goku surpassing Beerus is a lot like the Krabby Patty secret formula. At first I was invested and curious as to how it would go. But after time had passed and with absolutely no R.O.I on Goku's journey (much like the lack of R.O.I in the Krabby Patty secret formula) I just stopped giving a shit. Who cares if Goku surpasses Beerus or not? I sure don't and Akira clearly didn't either. Since he himself admitted to his lack of foresight and not seeing where the story could go if Goku surpassed Beerus. So the way I see it, if Akira didn't care, why should I?
Realistically, there's not much further to go after Beerus. They've already established the Angels, Grand Minister, and Zen'o as the next levels of the celestial hierarchy. The Destroyers are pretty much the upper limit of potential antagonists, and the story hit the upper echelons of the mortals with Frieza. Everything after him has had to be long forgotten or hidden powers to justify no one knowing. Even now, you'd have to stretch out to other parts of the universe, but that gets limited by the evaluations for the Tournament of Power. Or threats from the four most powerful universes, but they're not all that interested in U7. Toriyama pretty much put the series on a hard limit.
I disagree with this videos fundamentals. If they put a plateau on goku it destroys what he represents. Goku much like superman is more than a character they represent Ideals for many many people and Their creators themselves. Goku is meant to be the man who surpasses limits. no matter what obstacle no matter what circumstance, hard work and dedication will be victorious. it's what makes Goku Goku in the same way that superman is the man with no limits that chooses to good a contradiction to "ultimate power corrupts absolutely". the ideas in this video ruins the character
I get what you're saying but you make it seem like goku is a slouch. From the tournament of power God's of destruction/everyone know the power of goku..if Beeras gets beat by Goku, and you're saying Beeras is capable of beating any G.O.D (God of destruction) then any other G.o.d would be beat by goku and couldn't talk smack oh Beeras...
Honestly I lost interest in dbs after dbs broly movie and whileci heard some stuff in the gohan movie were okay but I'm so sick en tired of a goku that is dumber than dbz goku and even worst than dbgt goku seriously. It makes me livid to see this bladent disregard for good storytelling and character assassination that makes me say at minimum dbs is a mix bag of everything including all the bad and good and at worst it's so disappointing that you see stuff that you know shouldn't have happened but they did it
Actually no Goku all ways was asshole back in Syan Saga he told Krillin to let Vegita go because he wanted to fight him again and when Gohan was going to fight Cell Goku gave Cell a sansu bean the character assassinition of Goku came way earlier than you might remember and yes he is super dumb he didn't even realised that the snake queen was evil. Last time Goku was very very dumb in DBZ and became an asshole that puts his combat addiction before the life of his family and friends when he told Krillin to let Vegita go despite the fact that Vegita might return and kill all who Goku love and back than Goku didn't knew Vegita will become good or if he will 100% be able to even defeat Vegita if he ever to return.
The manga is the only canon, and Toyotaru was writing under Toriyama's guidance. Even if we assume Toyotaru was doing all the writing, that still means he came up with all of Super.
Saiyan scholar i see your back to your primal untamed natural form its been a while just commenting to see if u see my comment and hopefully im not shadowbanned, i recently made a shorts with the dbzbt2&3 game ranking proving ssj4 is stronger than vegito an been trying to post it everywhere so everyone can see it but for some reason the comments i make putting a link to my video shorts keep being taken down, it'll be really cool if u make a video of my ranking i used from the dbzbt2&3 game too my good scholar.
They would rapidily kill DB Super if they did, although thats no longer necessary, Gohan has already killed DB Super. When I see Gohan now I see Cartman, just that Cartman is funny and Gohan isnt ruclips.net/video/_SdpjexsU7M/видео.html
Super saiyan blue goku that fought golden freeza is stronger than beerus cause if he really did go 100% against super saiyan red goku blue would beat beerus
What I want to happen is they finally fight and Beerus fights at 100% and even with as powerful as Goku has gotten, Beerus totally dominates Goku in the battle with Goku at 100%, and not just that but he completely destroys the earth, or even the universe. And then Whis rewinds time to restore the universe. Then Beerus says to Goku, do you finally understand now? You will never be able to defeat me no matter how much you work towards it. I just wiped out your entire universe, but Whis restored it for you. You're an incredibly powerful fighter, but I am unsurpassable.
I legit hate it when the authors and producers of anime give certain characters the Yujiro Hanma treatment; That is to say, make it where a character can never be surpassed just to have said character act as a sort of unobtainable McGuffin. This sort of character is hardly ever done right, and it's just one more thing that shows Dragonball Super as a sequel series was a horrible idea. The late Toriyama and Toei Animation should've left Dragonball Z as the final installment of the franchise. Folks can accuse me of nostalgia bias, but it is what it is.
I think the best way for Goku to surpass Beerus but not would be to... at the end of the series have Goku fight Beerys and lose, then after the fight Beerus would say that Goku would have been stronger then himself when they first met. Perfect way of having him be stronger but not at the same time. Thoughts?
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Wait what? Demonetized for what?
I have some head cannon on why beerus is so strong that you may like. He is image training while he sleeps, and because his body is sleeping and resting in his dreams he will have no limit to how long he can image train for. He did say his mind is always on destruction and in his dream he fought against a super Saiyan god. If you can sleep for years and you don't have to worry about getting tired because of your training in your sleep. The his power could in fact be limitless, and every new form Goku and Vegeta get is just another thing he can use during these sessions. He could be training for weeks while he sleeps.
Beerus did not seek out Goku because he wanted to fight the strongest. It's because the fish predicted he'd be stronger than Beerus. So Beerus had to see what's up.
Nope (he will rival)… not the same sir!
My personal head canon for Beerus is that he's just always steadily getting stronger, especially while sleeping, which is why he sleeps for so long.
It is stated that he secretly traun
The whole point of Goku's journey in the series is that there's always another level for him to work towards. It wouldn't make sense for him to not eventually surpass Beerus especially since it's been implied all throughout Super that Goku is slowly but surely getting close to his tier of power.
Conflict+ Resolution + rinse and repeat = Only profitable story telling formula 😂
Actually the very OPPOSITE is true. Goku's Story is based in Journey to the West where he SURPPASED ALL GODS and achieved Nirvana
This is why GT is the true end to Goku's story. He surpassed all the deities, absorbed the Dragonballs then transcended reality itself. Like the true Sun Wukong, Goku becomes the literal God of the DB Universe in GT so trash super can suck it
@@jdrmanmusiqkingGT still sucks lmao 😂
Right now i only see goku as a joke
@@jdrmanmusiqkingGT is still garbage. Just because goku is inspired from son wukong, doesn't mean he has to share the same fate.
There will always be some level he can't reach. That's what pushes him to be stronger. That's Master roshi's teaching
First and formals thank you so much for taking time to make these videos. I always look forward to the next one.🙏🏼❤️
Absolutely love your videos. You’re the man brother.💙💙💙🎉🎉🎉
This just goes to show that Beerus isn't an interesting character anymore and has largely been _wasted_ as a concept.
Beerus' motivations with Goku _should be_ greater than simply wanting to fight the best. Why? - because that's _Goku's character._ And we've _seen that before,_ many times in-fact.
When you get down to it, each Dragon Ball Z villain is a dark reflection of Goku - Vegeta is who he could've become had he not bumped his head. Frieza is who Goku would become if he grew complacent with his level of power. Cell is _literally_ all of Goku's worst qualities. And Buu is basically an Evil Goku - an eating-machine who fights for fun, but doesn't care if he kills.
Beerus following this trend isn't keeping with a theme; it's just a lazy retread at this point. When Beerus literally could've been something so new and so different that he'd actually be _unique_ for once.
Beerus' character in the Battle of Gods movie was much better than how he was in the Super Anime. Because the movie actually played on the ambiguity of this character - subtly implying the danger of him being a short-tempered time-bomb, but ultimately establishing that he serves an _essential purpose_ in the grand scheme of the Universe.
The Anime? - Yeah, Beerus is _evil._ Like, irredeemably evil because he literally does what all the other villains of Z do - blow-up planets when things don't go his way. He literally cuts a planet _in-half,_ - disintegrating half of the entire population, and dooming the other half to a catastrophic apocalypse - all because _he didn't like their dessert._ That character is an asshole who abuses his position and power because literally no one can stop him - that's Frieza _again!_
But the Movie? The movie isn't perfect, but it laid the groundwork for something that had the potential to be a great character that made a great commentary. Beerus was a chance to explore the "Lonely God" archetype.
When Beerus wakes up from his 50 year nap prematurely by 11 years or so, the reason he does is because he has a prophetic dream that a _True Rival_ will emerge to challenge him to a fight. And instead of feeling _threatened_ by this, he's _excited by it._ He wants someone to challenge him, because he wants someone _on his level._
Why? Because Beerus is literally so powerful, that everyone he meets treats him differently than they would their peers. Everyone is so intimidated by his power and authority that they walk on eggshells when around him, and feel the need to _placate him._ But Beerus knows, none of this is for his benefit; they fear him and are merely trying to _survive him._ Beerus knows that any relationship he has will _always_ be asymmetrical, because he's so high above everyone in the Universe.
Heck, Beerus isn't even liked among his Godly-Peers. The 50 years that he naps for are the happiest times of peace for the Kais. It's clear his caretaker Whis is just a servant who doesn't really care for him, and merely exists to - barely - keep him in line. And the only other god that seems to tolerate his presence is his own twin brother, who is only ever interested in competing with him. Beerus knows that no one enjoys his company; in obtaining the highest power in the Universe, he has become utterly alone and now has nothing. It's probably why he abuses his position so much, as a means of getting back at the cold indifferent universe, by returning that cold indifference.
But then think about what happens from the moment he meets Goku. Here was a mortal who _wasn't_ afraid of him. This strange Saiyan on North Kai's planet simply walked up to him and introduced himself in a friendly manor. And even after a disappointing demonstration, he still challenged him to a sparring match. For the first time in his godly career, a mortal actually treated Beerus like a normal person. Sure, he curb-stomped Goku during their exhibition, but I think he could sense that Goku would want nothing less.
Then he pops down to Earth to speak to Vegeta. And the Prince literally does what Beerus has grown to hate; the sycophantic genuflection born entirely out of fear. However, what's more astonishing is who Vegeta is _surrounded by._ Vegeta knows full well who Beerus is, but the congregation at Bulma's party _don't._ And what happens?
_They invite Beerus to join them._ - Not out of fear, but out of genuine hospitality and friendliness. And Beerus actually accepts and seems to enjoy himself. He's dancing with them, and enjoying all kinds of delicious earth foods. And Beerus was literally so happy in this scene, that he'd forgotten all about the Super Saiyan God stuff he came here for.
See what's really going on here? Beerus doesn't want someone on his level so that he can have a rival. _Beerus wants a friend._ Someone who genuinely chooses him and who won't be intimidated by his power; someone he could have a genuine relationship with where the disparity between them won't taint their interactions.
I think that's the real reason that he gives Goku a chance to make a Super Saiyan God, and then fight him once he's succeeded. And even why he spares the earth even though Goku loses. It wasn't just about Goku, but also the Earthlings at the party; they were the first people to not treat Beerus like he was some kind of monster or a bomb, and genuinely let him into their lives. And while Beerus doesn't show it, I know deep down _that's what he appreciates the most._ Sure he'll probably claim he views them as his "pets" or something, but deep down, he _cares_ about them.
Heck, if I were writing that movie, I'd have the conflict be caused by a lot more than Buu refusing to _share the pudding_ with him. Maybe give a better reason for Beerus to flip out the way he did...like, say...He's _very protective_ of his job as a Destroyer, and he just realized the fat-blob at the party is _Majin Buu_ - a creature that literally threatened his job security.
More importantly, I think this would make Beerus a character who learned as much from Goku as Goku does from him. Goku has achieved a level of power greater than any earthling, any Saiyan, any Mortal could hope to achieve. And yet he's surrounded by a support group of family, friends and loved ones. It shows Beerus that the path to power is _not_ a lonely one. That Goku, who is on the cusp of being a god himself, is not a lonely god like him. And that maybe Beerus himself doesn't have to be a lonely god either...that maybe he could belong with this group.
Heck, I often dream that if Beerus is ever forced to destroy the Earth, he'll actually kidnap all the humans from earth first and take them to his planet, just so he can spare their lives.
this is beautifully written and gives beerus a deeper dive to his character, his motivation, struggles and is just poetic justice.. thank you.
Take my damn like cause you said the sad truth of Beerus as a character now and what he should be. Everyone thought Beerus was a beast at the start of Super (or in the Z movies BoG+RoF) and now look at him, nothing but an uninteresting character who fell wayside to Goku and Vegeta's theater and play - with a sprinkle of ectoplasm being shun on a couple side characters to "prove" they actually matter.
And they’re turning him and whis into mr Satan 2.0 and fat boo using beerus n whis as comic relief
Manga Beerus is stronger than his anime self. The ever moving goal post for plot, if I was going to wrap up the finally of DBS... I would have Vegeta become the new G.O.D. after beerus, have Broly as the Jiren of U7 as a protector maybe even join the Galaxy patrol, Goku would be the ultimate martial arts master for a mortal or give him a new journey for Goku to go to U6 and visit the earth and planet sadala.
Good video! Normally I tease that these are all about Goku but I usually watch every video anyways. I love Goku and I also like the idea of Beerus getting stronger off screen while meditating or training.
Beerus is a moving goal post whose only purpose In the current day is to be there as a reminder on how Dragon Ball as a franchise, refuses to plug on so that they have an excuse to keep going and thus more and more money would be made forever.
The worse part is how this entire deceptive beerus scaling by Toei and the rest of the official Dragon Ball writing teams constantly fed us this argument by the narrative how this is a good thing as a 'Oh look at how much Goku has to grow,' When time and time again, when Goku gets some new form or technique, all the official marketing hypes it up as 'oh he's finally on beerus's level' and other anime quotes where they indirectly imply that he's about to be on par with him (0:40 for the Whis quote, comparing Jiren's strength to all the Gods of destruction, Beerus included) and then a few years later backtracking that immediately in the manga was saying how he's eons ahead still.
It's absolute Insanity and I'm over it, does Beerus bring anything to the narrative anymore? He's certainly not a villain, we don't need to fear him turning on the good guys, but he's not exactly a helpful Ally either. Hell Whis contributes more to not just Goku and the others when they need assistance, but also to the story as an actual person more than he ever will.
At this point, Beerus is a nothing character, who contributes nothing, threatens nothing in the narrative, and worst of all, Even be seen as a future milestone given the state of media franchising and how you know damn well they want to milk this shit forever.
It's sad to see given how much I and I think a lot of other people loved hom back when he was introduced in Battle of Gods
I said it at the very beginning of Battle of God's, that introducing Beerus and Whis at the start was a mistake. Having the "End Boss" show up at the very beginning and have them be God level means nothing goes above that. Except other stronger gods. Narratively, it was a hole to big to start climbing out of and everything you said proves just that.
I ain’t reading allat
I like Beerus because I have a hairless cat myself. That simple. I’m biased.
Im glad you bought up the ultra ego thing. The way I think about it is, if a novice newbie with ultra ego can grow stronger by taking damage, perhaps a master can grow stronger passively and completely independent of their opponent. Beerus is that master, and judging from the jumps in growth vegeta was showing, beerus is probably literally growing more powerful for simply being a god of destruction
It kind of makes sense, because it would disrupt the balance of the universe, as a mortal growing more powerful than a god of destruction can completely ruin the way things are set up. Imagine if a wicked character that loved to destroy planets was too powerful for Beerus to stop. They would destroy more than what would be allowed and cause a serious problem.
i would rather see him surpass beerus but have the power of the angels like whus and the other angels be a level Goku will never be able to reach
I want to see the 5 strongest fighters in the multiverse. So Im okay with him fighting angels
@@maridiancrest243 you taking about unrealent gaming top 5 story because I love that story.
With Toriyama's passing, Goku defeating Beerus is a 50/50. Toyotarou could make Goku defeat Beerus, which mean Uub is meant to be stronger than Beerus when Super ends. Or Toyotarou could keep to what Toriyama wants and have Goku never defeat Beerus, which means Uub is just a stepping stone for Goku to get closer to Beerus's power when Super ends.
Which is pretty dumb either way.
Should had never made Dragonball Super in between the 10 year time gap of Buu and Uub.
Uub doesn't have to be stronger than Beerus. He's ultimately a loose end plot from Z. Goku can take on the teacher role and raise Uub up to his level. It's a different progression of his martial arts journey while still growing and learning himself. A way for his role to continue on beyond him. It's been a continuing issue that Goku and Vegeta are just about the two strongest forces for good in U7. Broly was introduced on their level and is being trained to control that power. Gohan and Piccolo only just received forms that bring them up instead of being a few steps behind. Uub should only be about the same power as Buu, and Goku could train him up as a human on the same level as the Saiyans.
At the end of Z, Goku goes to train Uub. In the super Manga, Dende ask Goku to train Uub during the TOP arc. Goku has always been a teacher for Uub and the way the last chapter appeared, Beerus looks scared of Goku and Gohan. They tear up his planet and Beerus just yells about it. He didn't even threaten them. And then at the end of he Granola Arc, Whis and Goku ask the Oracle fish if Frieza is U7 strongest and the fish states someone stronger is coming which might have been Gohan or a trained Broly. Yeah, Beerus may not be the strongest anymore because Whis is stronger than Beerus. And lately Goku only trains with Whis.
Uub doesnt need to be stronger than Beerus????
I don't think Goku should ever surpass Beerus. Even when Whis said Beerus used about 70 % of his power. I always believed it's from his heavily supressed power whatever it was. Since he is now an ally, Goku defeating him will mean nothing.
Beerus has Ultra instinct sign. He used it against the other hakaishin in the expo fight in the manga.
Is there anything to watch as far as the anime is concerned to watch after dragon ball super? Or is it done after tournament of power?
Super Hero is the last film for Super so far though I'm sure they'll do something animated for Black Frieza
I think the angles have a realm where gods can use full power so the universe dont get destroyed
Beerus and Goku probably won't happen because while it would be nice to see that fight happen again, does it really even matter? Beerus losing, would be stupid. Goku losing, would be a bit of a waste.
I wonder if Daima will touch more on this, or will it separate everything.
I think Dragon Ball Hakai had a interesting twist where Goku becomes a destroyer. That way even if Goku becomes stronger it's not that bad since he is a destroyer. If Goku, Vegita, etc can get stronger there's no reason that other characters from Krilin to Daishankan can't get stronger. Maybe everyone is getting stronger and that's why the gap between certain characters is still large. It would make sense. Who knows, maybe Goku was actually stronger than Beerus and the other destroyers but they all been training so the gap was 'restored'
No goku has set his goal on the grand priest.
I forgot what chapter ( i think post TOP or moro arc)
There was a time in the chapter where Goku was discussing MUI with whis.
Whis said he was at the bottom of the barrel in terms of MUI.
And goku was pumped to get to the top.
Goku has elder kai's life, he has a lifespan of over 1000 years.
I disagree with this notion simply because the only option left is to go into the realms of fighting other gods and then eventually the angels.
If they wanted to expand it, they could make him lose one more time and then have Goku and Vegeta travel to other universes and then come back to beat the gods enemies and then beerus and finally goin to fight angel villains and then beat the gp himself.
Honestly I like the idea that Goku maxxes out and Uub is the one that in the end truly masters UI. They did that boy dirty in GT and he needs a redemption.
Saiyan scholar made a good point like saying if the z-fighters beat xeno then what's next?
I agree with what I think is the top comment so far.
Maybe it shouldn’t happen right away, but I do think that Goku should surpass him considering it seems like that’s what we are working towards by the end of this.
Not to mention, and I know a lot of people are gonna probably hate me for saying this, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but at the end of GT Goku is also at that level of power, which means even if he didn’t surpass him by that point, he’s even closer than as well.
I'm often agree with you, for example when you talk of GT. But here I totally disagree.
- It's too dangerous : After BoG, when Gokû unlocks SSJ Blue or even Ultra Instinct, nothing happens, so it seems this battle have a retcon for his dangerosity, and even with this element, this is possible to create a dimension, or to return in the place of the tournament of power to fight without risks. Same for fights against Hakaishins, or fights against Angels themselves.
- Beerus is pathetic if he is beaten by Gokû : I disagree, so with this logic, Kame Sennin is pathetic because Gokû learns in 5 seconds what he manages to learn in 50 years. Or Gokû caught Karin in 3 days, against 3 years for Kame Sennin. Same for Kami, Kaio, he surpasses his masters very fast. He surpasses even the power of gods in Boo Saga. Kaioshins are a joke for Z-Team. DB and DBZ are great because they don't put gods in a piedestal like many others stories. I'm tired of this trope, and Super waste a good thing in the original story again... The God ki is ridiculous, useless in story, and describes Saiyans like noobs unable to keep the level against Beerus. Even more with Gokû who is depict in the original story as the ultimate warrior and fighter, it makes absolutely no sense that any of theses Hakaishins, Angels, Grand Priest or even Zeno causes difficulties for Gokû. Yeah Beerus has million years of training, but Old Kaioshin too is here since very long time and he is no match for Gokû. Gokû is the fighter who makes in an instant what others can't make in years, decades, centuries, etc. I prefer Beerus to be pathetic than the original cast. Beerus don't act, don't interfere in the story, he is absolutely useless, he deserves totally to be pathetic in comparison of Gokû and others. He is not even good, so at any time, Hakaishins, Angels, Grand Priest and Zeno can erase planets, systems solars, galaxies and even universes. Gokû and others MUST be stronger than all of them to prevent a menace again. Otherwise the story makes no sense. Gokû and others train constantly, they deserve to surpass everybody in the multiverse and in the timelines, like in DB, DBZ and DBGT. Gokû with Shenron in GT is what Gokû deserves to be : the ultimate warrior in existence. Beerus is not pathetic if he loses against the ultimate warrior, it's an honor to lose against Gokû, there is nothing wrong with that. Yeah I prefer Beerus to be arrogant and to not train, because in the plot it makes no sense if he keeps training without saying it. And all future menaces are irrelevant, which is absolutely stupid for me. No tension, no danger. It's like Whis interrupts destruction of Earth in ressurection of Frieza. All arcs in DBS are a succession of "Oh we can beat Beerus", "Oh Beerus is now 1000000000 times stronger than before to not lose against Gokû and Vegeta", and bis repetita. I hate this formula.
It's a shame to not use the tournament of power to create a rebellion against hierarchy and order. It's the most unfair order of all DB. And to see nothing against that disgusts me. You make Gokû stronger than in BoG and you can make Gokû fight against all these gods, it would be a very good story to eradicate all this order and bring back to peace, without the worry to be erased if a child is angry, or if Beerus doesn't have his pudding. I know Super is canon but I can't accept this chronology, I prefer to ignore these to be fine with Dragon Ball.
Even in DBZ Kakarot it makes no sense, Gokû pathetic again to draw with a Vegeta SSJ2. It's Gokû the ultimate warrior, not Vegeta. Vegeta admits Gokû is the number one. It makes no sense to Vegeta to have this because Gokû would also have this, it's Gokû who learns to everybody how to improve, why suddenly Gokû is idiot and incapable to beat Vegeta with his SSJ3 ? Why Vegeta has still his arrogant, cocky attitude of Cell arc, and his clothes of Cell arc instead of clothes in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. I hate this trope to consider Gokû like an idiot again and again, in all DBS. It was the same problem with SSJ2 Trunks who can match SSJ3 Gokû, or Vegeta SSJ2 in DBS who is stronger than Gokû SSJ3.
Now we have a story where it's Gokû the dumb, the laughing, the pathetic, etc. And yeah I choose all days Beerus to have this role instead of Gokû if one character must be dumb or whatever. It was just possible to write a story where Beerus trains, but Gokû trains even smarter and better and caught him. It was not impossible to shine all the characters, same for angels etc.
Super just breaks all original story and made it awful.
Even the story with Uub makes no sense. A bribe of Uub's power who surpasses Ultra Instinct ? Come on, people are really happy with this ? I see this like a total disrespect for Gokû.
For me Super don't deserve to exist in this form, it creates many incoherences, destroy many characters and makes no sense with the goals of the characters. Gokû's journey is to always be stronger. And form the new generation. If we make a limit for Gokû, his story ends. In the contrary I imagine the only character who deserves to not have a limit to his power is Gokû, and to finish like in GT where he is nearly omnipotent 100 years after GT, and still able to progress. Or if he has a limit, make this limit beyond everybody. If they beat all the menaces in the existence, Gokû can be the strongest, and others are not needed to have this level to protect the existence after Gokû's end.
I dont think challenging or even losing to Goku would make Beerus a laughing stock amongst the other gods. Jiren was lauded by the other gods as being a mortal who was stronger than a god of destruction, and no one treated the destroyer of his universe as a joke, he even seems respected by the other destroyer gods.
Beerus stated in the manga that some of the gods are in fact stronger than him, like Quitla, and Vermouth, I will say that Beerus is amongst the strongest of the destroyer gods. He is however in fact, the defacto strongest in all of universe 7, maybe only being outclassed by whis, but since he is an angel he is obliged to stay out of others business or face being erased from existence by the all mighty himself.
Beerus never says anywhere he wants to fight the strongest, the only thing he even hints at is that he wants a fight that can entertain him. He's not looking to get beat up, he just wants to curb the boredom of being so much stronger than everyone else. It's part of why he was fine with suppressing his power to fight SSG Goku in BoG and why he was willing to lie about it. He wanted Goku trying his best and giving it his all so it would be a fun fight. The potential of Goku and/or Vegeta one day giving him an even more fun fight is why he lets them hang around on his planet training with Whis. Well, that and also because he views mortals as being too dependent on the gods and wants them to be able to solve their own problems without him needing to get involved, and Goku and Vegeta getting stronger is helpful in that regard.
It's hard to say whether Goku will ever surpass Beerus as an individual or whether it will take him teaming up with Vegeta to finally win a fight against him, but it's probably going to happen just to wrap up the story arc they are undergoing.
As for Uub, Goku wasn't excited about him just because of his desire to fight strong guys. He didn't even care about finishing his fight with Uub when they finally met. It wasn't about the fight, it was about measuring his power. Goku at this point has already finished his journey to grow stronger and is preparing to finally hand over the role of protector of Earth to the next generation of heroes. He was excited about Uub because from everything he knew about him, he was the best candidate to be Goku's successor. He's ridiculously strong and has a heart of gold to match. As such, he was eager to confirm this for himself and then take up the role of being his mentor. What this ultimately means for a canon sequel is that Uub is probably going to be the next main protagonist if such a sequel ever exists. Goku is finally finishing his main protagonist journey and retiring from heroism to let the next generation have their glory, something he's wanted since back when he was preparing Gohan to fight Cell.
Beerus’ power is the true definition of a glass ceiling
I think Beerus needs to have more transformations, just like freezer. Goku and co. are close to beat him in base form but years away of beating him in any of his still unseen transformations.
7:24 black freeza laughing in corner
The Top of the Food Chain isnt Beerus.
Its Monaka and Zeno!
I don't think he'll ever SURPASS beerus but be of some challenge towards him.
I believe beerus power didnt change much since BoG, mainly because i dont think the main casts raw power have been increasing that much and they are just improving their skill and hacks. For exemple, if gokus total power is 100, his attacks would be 25 because he is wasting energy making his body tough and making his hair glow. While beerus power is 110, but he can put 110 in his attacks because he can instantly change and put everything to attack or defence
In the anime at least, its INCREDIBLY obvious that beerus has been surpassed, or at least his lvl has been meet with characters like mui or fp jiren. Personally it makes sense that in the manga he SHOULD beat beerus. Its the first fight of super, and it would be awesome if it was the last, and finally, he beats beerus.
How would he do it?
We learned power isn't enough because he needed instinct. He has instinct now, it isn't enough. It's over.
To me Toriyama was Dragonball. When he died the last content that came out was where the door closed that is cannon to me. He never had Beerus officially surpassed so to me that's how it'll be in that universe.
Beerues will never be defeated, but his Kai will die
Beerus isn’t allowed to fight other Destroyers (since they have the power to destroy their universes in a fight) and would be too afraid to ask Zeno for permission. I think Beerus is simply waiting for the prophecy of a rival, training, for Goku and/or Vegeta to be that foe.
they could fight full power if they ask Zeno... or maybe even Whis could pull it off. but I tend to think that Beerus is meant to be the strongest ... I think with the power levels of the main characters there wasn't a reasonable way to write them teachers that continuously are more powerful than / are more skilled than the master fighters Goku and Vegeta have become. In order for them to continue to progress there needs to be a mentor who has an untouchable level of power/experience... how about the strongest God who's millions of years old... Also, Beerus is a destroyer deity, good luck continuing the story if the villains are all multiversal... it would turn into an ass pull real fast. Also beerus's non interference policy makes him the perfect trainer with an unreachable power level, because there aren't questions of "why doesn't he do it?"
weren't gods of destruction forbidden from battling one another?
To be honest all the saiyans can surpass even all the angels with a normal wish due to their potential but it would make db boring for sure so we'll never seen them use the brain (if they wish to be able to generate the senzu beans every time they want from their hands, they would be able to instantly recover when they are almost dead after a fight/during a fight and becomes more powerful, they can even almost kill themselves to eat the senzu beans more and more times a day to become more and more powerful without problems surpassing every god of destruction and the angels without problems)
I think Beerus already knew Frieza's new form through Whis..
If Goku changes of what he's wearing to end of Z.. it's time..
He would even train Goten
If they made him have a limit, it would make sense and run parallel to Son Wukong, who found out he could not surpass Buddah, like not even close.
Not a moving goal post,bills secretly train plus havent showed off his full power
I want goku to eventually be the mentor he was always hinted at since z bit can’t do that if he never surpasses beerus
I don't think that would make Beerus look pathetic. I mean he already showed him up by being able to achieve UI in 40 years yeat Beerus couldn't in millions of years. How would Goku beating him with it make it any worse? Goku has always been far ahead of every single person in all of dragon ball at development and being in touch with these abilities to search within himself. Better than Buu, better than a perfectly generated cell made out of DNA from the greatest fighters in to universe, even Goku himself. Goku is meant to be a special case, it's his character. His whole story set him up to be that way. He was a child raised by a kind hearted man and then lived on his own doing nothing but being in touch with his inner self. It's the only way his mind can work. He's been trained by how many master's far older than him? Roshi himself is like a few hundred years old right? Then theirs Korin and king ki. Probably the grand Ki as well. Not to mention training with people who had been dead for God knows how many years. He trained with civilizations on other planets and then even with Beerus's own trainer who is literally an angel. His reach of understanding is already beyond even Beerus's at this point more than likely. Beerus could of course pass him again being immortal but I don't believe for a second that the rarity of Goku's like experience would in any way discredit Beerus. Goku has already beaten people older than time so why not? He said with a sensu bean he could have defeated an immortal who had just fused with an entire universe. He lifted grand Zeno up like a child... Goku already has a reach that extends past Beerus. If he was able to discredit Beerus as a character then he already has.
Black frieza has been confirmed to be close to beerus power so eventually he will surpass frieza and therefor beerus
like it or not goku will surpass him.
I do believe Goku will surpass Beerus eventually. I want to see the Grand Priest go evil and Goku take him down for Zenny and become the grand Priest. I’m reaching but one can dream
I thing the creators are going to have goku beat beerus because there IS another level of power. Zenos power. I think that they will have goku go on another training journey (with the grand priest or jiren or something) to try and reach Zenos power.
Maybe Goku was excited about Uubs potential and not how strong he was at that moment. He could have the potential to be but not be stronger than Beerus
What if they tied?
Beerus being the eternal benchmark makes Uub’s place dubious
Why would Goku abandon his family to train a kid who’ll never rival this god if destruction
So, give Beerus Ultra Instinct?
I would like to see his “10” become a “13”.
The vision that beerus had wouldn't make sense if Goku can't eventually beat him or else whats the point of Super. Or did the vision of the super Saiyan God lose its meaning, I don't think thats the case and I don't think that it would affect beerus's character if Goku beat him. After all this is what beerus wants (Goku getting stronger).... I mean to me basically the entire DBS franchise is an underdog story with the mortals rising up to levels that baffle the Gods and even surpassing them. So Goku losing to beerus AGAIN doesn't make sense to me and that is why I think that Goku achieved the power that beerus couldn't it's foreshadowing the things to come
I was hoping that either gohan or broly became stronger than beerus at least
Goku just isn't the same every since beast Gohan cooked him smh
According to Dragon Ball Kakumei which is fan made,the God of Destruction of Universe 0 may be stronger than Beerus.
i prefer the scenario of goku wins against beerus , beerus is mad by beaten from a mortal then motivated enough to train again with whis and finally he taps into mui too 1st time. we already know he can use ui sign at will
Vegeta becomes the new God of destruction for universe 7.
Goku beats Vegeta. They do palette swaps.
Goku goes oh I dunno, white hair orange aura, vegeta is purple and orange aura, everyone is happy as ever. Then they do a new arc with more pallete swaps because they can't let it go, new baddie appears (bad guy Angel from universe infinite whatever). Maybe Gohan goes multicoloured. Who cares...
The kids don't ever match up because they're not the top 3.
Nothing ever happens.
Damn your salty
@@jimmyramos1989 You're*
I think they released ssg/ssb way too soon. Or even just too many forms in general. I reckon they could have not released any new forms until the end of TOP argubly
I feel like black frieza will kill supreme kai to kill beerus
They might as well end super now and forever if they make goku unable to get past beerus or the angels. Hell why would goku bother training with whis to master ui. It would be pointless
Really is better if Beerus stays over Goku, otherwise it just goes on the same way forever.
I just think that ubb might be able to get stronger than Burris
Because beerus is toriyamas pet creation, simple as that guys,
Goku can't surpass Beerus in Super because he doesn't surpass Beerus until just before GT.
Gt Goku and super Goku are not the same.
@@marqueskates5873 Correct, they are not the same because GT Goku is *way stronger.*
@@winterburden wrong kiddo! super goku is way stronger and powerful before gt goku went with shenron.
@@jafsjafs8820 wrong. gt goku is way stronger because gt happens after.
@@winterburden it never happens kiddo. why? coz it is not canon to the original story. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Or a 3 option goku keep getting strong with no cap but just cant beat burres
I thought it was clear goku surpassed beerus in the anime?
This also sells me on not reading the manga. Why would I ever want to read about a guy whose goal will never be achieved? There's no point in that.
The Anime was crazy but the narrative so far for the DBS part of the story is that Beerus is still way way ahead.
Goku is strong but couldn't even beat zamasu
I disagree. Goku has surpassed being far older than him and more experienced well before dbs for kami senin to kami, kais and kaioshin goku hs surpassed gods before beerus should not be an exception. It's just that they keep retcon'ing beerus power to always make him a benchmark for goku which is just dumb when they have already introduce characters far above beerus. Beerus isn't necessary to the story by any mean matter of fact he presence tarnish the aura a villain would have. Freeza, zamasu, moro would have been far more terrifying if beerus was not around getting all the plot conveniences buffs. In short it's just lazy writing
Goku surpassing Beerus is a lot like the Krabby Patty secret formula. At first I was invested and curious as to how it would go. But after time had passed and with absolutely no R.O.I on Goku's journey (much like the lack of R.O.I in the Krabby Patty secret formula) I just stopped giving a shit. Who cares if Goku surpasses Beerus or not? I sure don't and Akira clearly didn't either. Since he himself admitted to his lack of foresight and not seeing where the story could go if Goku surpassed Beerus. So the way I see it, if Akira didn't care, why should I?
Realistically, there's not much further to go after Beerus. They've already established the Angels, Grand Minister, and Zen'o as the next levels of the celestial hierarchy. The Destroyers are pretty much the upper limit of potential antagonists, and the story hit the upper echelons of the mortals with Frieza. Everything after him has had to be long forgotten or hidden powers to justify no one knowing. Even now, you'd have to stretch out to other parts of the universe, but that gets limited by the evaluations for the Tournament of Power. Or threats from the four most powerful universes, but they're not all that interested in U7. Toriyama pretty much put the series on a hard limit.
I disagree with this videos fundamentals. If they put a plateau on goku it destroys what he represents. Goku much like superman is more than a character they represent Ideals for many many people and Their creators themselves. Goku is meant to be the man who surpasses limits. no matter what obstacle no matter what circumstance, hard work and dedication will be victorious. it's what makes Goku Goku in the same way that superman is the man with no limits that chooses to good a contradiction to "ultimate power corrupts absolutely". the ideas in this video ruins the character
Or goku becomes son wukong the monkey king of dbs
I get what you're saying but you make it seem like goku is a slouch. From the tournament of power God's of destruction/everyone know the power of goku..if Beeras gets beat by Goku, and you're saying Beeras is capable of beating any G.O.D (God of destruction) then any other G.o.d would be beat by goku and couldn't talk smack oh Beeras...
Honestly I lost interest in dbs after dbs broly movie and whileci heard some stuff in the gohan movie were okay but I'm so sick en tired of a goku that is dumber than dbz goku and even worst than dbgt goku seriously. It makes me livid to see this bladent disregard for good storytelling and character assassination that makes me say at minimum dbs is a mix bag of everything including all the bad and good and at worst it's so disappointing that you see stuff that you know shouldn't have happened but they did it
Actually no Goku all ways was asshole back in Syan Saga he told Krillin to let Vegita go because he wanted to fight him again and when Gohan was going to fight Cell Goku gave Cell a sansu bean the character assassinition of Goku came way earlier than you might remember and yes he is super dumb he didn't even realised that the snake queen was evil. Last time Goku was very very dumb in DBZ and became an asshole that puts his combat addiction before the life of his family and friends when he told Krillin to let Vegita go despite the fact that Vegita might return and kill all who Goku love and back than Goku didn't knew Vegita will become good or if he will 100% be able to even defeat Vegita if he ever to return.
Goku already surpassed Beerus in the anime. Toyotaru is just a hack and the manga is noncanon so its best to ignore it
The manga is the only canon, and Toyotaru was writing under Toriyama's guidance. Even if we assume Toyotaru was doing all the writing, that still means he came up with all of Super.
@@bryanwoods3373 Manga noncanon bro
I jus wanna see beerus really fight someone seriously. And not goku
Goku = Cody Rhodes 😂
Saiyan scholar i see your back to your primal untamed natural form its been a while just commenting to see if u see my comment and hopefully im not shadowbanned, i recently made a shorts with the dbzbt2&3 game ranking proving ssj4 is stronger than vegito an been trying to post it everywhere so everyone can see it but for some reason the comments i make putting a link to my video shorts keep being taken down, it'll be really cool if u make a video of my ranking i used from the dbzbt2&3 game too my good scholar.
It’s official you’re a black frieza fanboy…if u think Beerus is losing to him
Quit the us vs them mentality you sad act lol
@@SaiyanScholar 😂😂🤧
Whole time Goku already surpassed Beerus and he just don’t wanna admit it, but y’all ain’t ready for that convo✌🏽
In the anime yeah he did.
Manga no
@@newhybrid101 manga too, but beerus in the manga is a straight up sore loser so he’d never admit it, atleast not yet
Agreed with the anime. Manga no.
He’s surpassed beerus in the manga too this is a FACT
Ain’t no purple ugly cat better than my goat😤
Cap
If all im being honest Scholar I dont want Goku to lose. If Jiren can surpass his god of destruction then Goku should be given the same courtesy.
First
Nu uh the bot was here before you
They would rapidily kill DB Super if they did, although thats no longer necessary, Gohan has already killed DB Super. When I see Gohan now I see Cartman, just that Cartman is funny and Gohan isnt
ruclips.net/video/_SdpjexsU7M/видео.html
Beerus should only lose by Goku and Vegeta fusing. No one of the Saiyans should surpass him.
Super saiyan blue goku that fought golden freeza is stronger than beerus cause if he really did go 100% against super saiyan red goku blue would beat beerus
What I want to happen is they finally fight and Beerus fights at 100% and even with as powerful as Goku has gotten, Beerus totally dominates Goku in the battle with Goku at 100%, and not just that but he completely destroys the earth, or even the universe. And then Whis rewinds time to restore the universe. Then Beerus says to Goku, do you finally understand now? You will never be able to defeat me no matter how much you work towards it. I just wiped out your entire universe, but Whis restored it for you. You're an incredibly powerful fighter, but I am unsurpassable.
This is actually something really valid I could actually see something like this happening😂
Db Super sucks. Let's be honest with ourselves people😒🤳🏿...
your not a fan
nothing more to say
You're not human
Nothing more to say
I legit hate it when the authors and producers of anime give certain characters the Yujiro Hanma treatment; That is to say, make it where a character can never be surpassed just to have said character act as a sort of unobtainable McGuffin. This sort of character is hardly ever done right, and it's just one more thing that shows Dragonball Super as a sequel series was a horrible idea. The late Toriyama and Toei Animation should've left Dragonball Z as the final installment of the franchise. Folks can accuse me of nostalgia bias, but it is what it is.
I think the best way for Goku to surpass Beerus but not would be to... at the end of the series have Goku fight Beerys and lose, then after the fight Beerus would say that Goku would have been stronger then himself when they first met. Perfect way of having him be stronger but not at the same time. Thoughts?