Depends on the load and the equivalent internal resistance of the multiplier. If you're just trying to make some sparks, with your typical values affecting the resistance being about 1nF stage capacitors and supply frequency 50 kHz, about 20 stages is the max you can pull off, but the multiplication factor would be nowhere near expected 40, really it will be about 25. You can calculate that yourself by using the formula for voltage multiplier equivalent resistance (I believe you can google it easily, but if not, ask here), and setting the total output current (corona+leakage losses) of about 1 mA.
You're welcome! Actually I don't usually power any loads with my multipliers, I observe various types of discharges, such as sparks and corona. But theoretically this multiplier could power an X-ray tube or charge some capacitor bank to 100 kV.
Thank you! Yes, over the years I've built 5 or 6 Marx generators (or maybe more if you count prototypes). They seem fun, but working with them is precisely what has led me to the conclusion that if you want the big sparks, you should switch to voltage multipliers. Homemade marxes have three main problems. First - wobbly wire-based spark gaps are such a pain in the butt to work with. If you want stable operation and somewhat predictable performance, you need a solid insulator construction that holds the gaps firmly, and you need first gap to be triggered, which is a whole another task. Second - high voltage resistors (that you need to charge the marx caps) aren't cheap, and regular ones blow up/flashover when the Marx pulses. Third - marx generates voltage pulses with submicrosecond rise time, which inhibits the spark development. Positive DC on the other hand gives you the longest spark per unit voltage that you can achieve (well actually switching surges give you the longest spark, but they are even harder to generate at home). So yes, I have worked with marxes and I believe that the only time when you need them is when you need pulsed voltage of 50+ kV peak. Less than that just a single cap plus single spark gap work just fine for generating pulses.
Thank you for your answer, i begin to generate high voltage and i've try the marx generator recently, and you're right ! Wire spark gap from scratch is a pain in the butt to work with xD I've reproduce the video of "Plasma Channel" about the marx generator, so iv'e use water capacitor and "water wire" .I've effectively see than it's can work better with one caps and one sparks gap than more, who is more difficult to set. I've made one voltage multiplyer with 5 stage for reach 20kV with microwawe transformer and make a jaccob ladder , but i defenitly need to upgrade with high voltage ceramic caps. I didn't knew about the timing of the spark in marx generator. Thank you for your information, you are absolutely right :P
I have an advice for you, power the multiplier with high frequency HV supply, like a ZVS driver. Voltage multiplier's efficiency is linearly proportional to its power supply operating frequency. At 50/60 Hz, such as from MOT, you need very large capacitors to be able to operate decently. With HF HV supply small ceramic caps work fine.
Thank you for the advice ! :) Ok, i'm gonna remember this about the frequency, i'm looking for buy one for cheap or make my own ZVS, but i need to work a bit for create it. As soon as possible i'm gonna get one, it's an elementary tools.
Well, according to US standarts this actually doesn't have enough energy to kill a person, but the shock would indeed be extremely unpleasant. 50 pF seems a bit too small, any leakages will drop the output voltage significantly.
@@Vidduley спасибо, русскую английскую речь не спутаешь ни с чем, слишком все правильно выговариваете. :) Спасибо за видео. Будут вопросы обязательно спрошу. Меня больше интересует тлеющий разряд, так что спрошу под другим вашем видео. :)
@@Vidduley Добрый день, подсчкажите пожалуйста, качество дуги зависит от частоты тока? Планиру собрать установку из трансформатора от микроволновки и умножителя. Трансформатор от микроволновки повышает до 2кВ, далее уже дело за умножителем.
Здравствуйте, я так понял вы имеете в виду "качество" искры, т.е. ее длину и энергию? Тут такая вещь, у умножителя эквивалентное последовательное сопротивление обратно пропорционально частоте, так что на 50 Гц оно будет в 1000 раз больше, чем на, скажем, 50 кГц. Соответственно любая утечка, коронный разряд будут в 1000 раз сильнее просаживать выходное напряжение умножителя, и искры будут меньше. Вообще все зависит еще и от емкостей ступеней, для работы на 50 Гц нужны доли микрофарад - микрофарады, поэтому в основном умножители и делают питающимися от ВЧ - хватит и нанофарад для аналогичного результата.
4:11 - 4:16 The audio is gold!
Excellent well presented and educational, thank you! Dziękuję Ci bardzo!
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed! I'm not polish though :D
How many stages can you get away with before the losses make adding another stage pointless?
Depends on the load and the equivalent internal resistance of the multiplier. If you're just trying to make some sparks, with your typical values affecting the resistance being about 1nF stage capacitors and supply frequency 50 kHz, about 20 stages is the max you can pull off, but the multiplication factor would be nowhere near expected 40, really it will be about 25. You can calculate that yourself by using the formula for voltage multiplier equivalent resistance (I believe you can google it easily, but if not, ask here), and setting the total output current (corona+leakage losses) of about 1 mA.
@@Vidduley awesome, thank you so much :)
Thank you a lot for your video. What kind of load you are powering with this device? Дякую за Вашу роботу.
You're welcome! Actually I don't usually power any loads with my multipliers, I observe various types of discharges, such as sparks and corona. But theoretically this multiplier could power an X-ray tube or charge some capacitor bank to 100 kV.
I love your channel and your work ! Have you ever try marx generator ? (multiply voltage by spark gap and capacitor)
Thank you! Yes, over the years I've built 5 or 6 Marx generators (or maybe more if you count prototypes). They seem fun, but working with them is precisely what has led me to the conclusion that if you want the big sparks, you should switch to voltage multipliers. Homemade marxes have three main problems. First - wobbly wire-based spark gaps are such a pain in the butt to work with. If you want stable operation and somewhat predictable performance, you need a solid insulator construction that holds the gaps firmly, and you need first gap to be triggered, which is a whole another task. Second - high voltage resistors (that you need to charge the marx caps) aren't cheap, and regular ones blow up/flashover when the Marx pulses. Third - marx generates voltage pulses with submicrosecond rise time, which inhibits the spark development. Positive DC on the other hand gives you the longest spark per unit voltage that you can achieve (well actually switching surges give you the longest spark, but they are even harder to generate at home). So yes, I have worked with marxes and I believe that the only time when you need them is when you need pulsed voltage of 50+ kV peak. Less than that just a single cap plus single spark gap work just fine for generating pulses.
Thank you for your answer, i begin to generate high voltage and i've try the marx generator recently, and you're right ! Wire spark gap from scratch is a pain in the butt to work with xD
I've reproduce the video of "Plasma Channel" about the marx generator, so iv'e use water capacitor and "water wire" .I've effectively see than it's can work better with one caps and one sparks gap than more, who is more difficult to set. I've made one voltage multiplyer with 5 stage for reach 20kV with microwawe transformer and make a jaccob ladder , but i defenitly need to upgrade with high voltage ceramic caps. I didn't knew about the timing of the spark in marx generator.
Thank you for your information, you are absolutely right :P
I have an advice for you, power the multiplier with high frequency HV supply, like a ZVS driver. Voltage multiplier's efficiency is linearly proportional to its power supply operating frequency. At 50/60 Hz, such as from MOT, you need very large capacitors to be able to operate decently. With HF HV supply small ceramic caps work fine.
Thank you for the advice ! :) Ok, i'm gonna remember this about the frequency, i'm looking for buy one for cheap or make my own ZVS, but i need to work a bit for create it. As soon as possible i'm gonna get one, it's an elementary tools.
We shall send each other some volts now😅 haha
can you make a video where you show how to get high voltage componenets
What do you mean? Usually you just go and buy/order them :D
ebay has all
This could kill you instantly! I am building one with much smaller capacitors, thinking of using 50pF per stage
Well, according to US standarts this actually doesn't have enough energy to kill a person, but the shock would indeed be extremely unpleasant. 50 pF seems a bit too small, any leakages will drop the output voltage significantly.
@@Vidduley I still would't touch it tough! I calculated that 100pF should be enough, I will let you now how it turned out.
@@Vidduley is dropping the resistance going to give you more power - in my mind I think so - but is there an issue when doing that?
@@drrobotnik5376 probably some overload
15 joule will not even kill a healthy person. I wouldn't try that though it would be one hell of a shock. Its unlikely that it is lethal
Very cool bro!!
Thanks!
loud!!!
a marx generator in a tube xD
На русском языке не планируете видео?
Пока нет, мне кажется охват аудитории на английском повыше будет, да и практика в языке. Но в комментариях отвечаю на русском если что, пишите :)
@@Vidduley спасибо, русскую английскую речь не спутаешь ни с чем, слишком все правильно выговариваете. :) Спасибо за видео. Будут вопросы обязательно спрошу. Меня больше интересует тлеющий разряд, так что спрошу под другим вашем видео. :)
@@Vidduley Добрый день, подсчкажите пожалуйста, качество дуги зависит от частоты тока?
Планиру собрать установку из трансформатора от микроволновки и умножителя.
Трансформатор от микроволновки повышает до 2кВ, далее уже дело за умножителем.
Здравствуйте, я так понял вы имеете в виду "качество" искры, т.е. ее длину и энергию? Тут такая вещь, у умножителя эквивалентное последовательное сопротивление обратно пропорционально частоте, так что на 50 Гц оно будет в 1000 раз больше, чем на, скажем, 50 кГц. Соответственно любая утечка, коронный разряд будут в 1000 раз сильнее просаживать выходное напряжение умножителя, и искры будут меньше. Вообще все зависит еще и от емкостей ступеней, для работы на 50 Гц нужны доли микрофарад - микрофарады, поэтому в основном умножители и делают питающимися от ВЧ - хватит и нанофарад для аналогичного результата.