Don’t buy a modular synth, buy a MIDI controller.
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- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2024
- Ableton Live Suite gives you the ability to run Max4Live recreations of classic Eurorack modules like Mutable Instruments Grids and the Music Thing Turing Machine. Mapping them to simple MIDI controllers means you can build instant performance environments that work like modular synths. See the potential? Don't forget about vcvrack.com/ as well! More to come on this...
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LINKS
▶︎ Music Thing 8mu: www.musicthing.co.uk/8mu_page/
▶︎ Grids device: www.maxforlive.com/library/de...
▶︎ Turing Machine device: maxforlive.com/library/device...
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This brings back all PTSD nightmares of 2000's with REAKTOR and bcr 2000 where every thing was possible 😱 and nothing was done 😶
This is how I am trying to learn Ableton, it can do everything! Always a neat shiny to learn! My best sequencer is my Korg SQ-10 because there isn't enough features to get stuck on trying to learn new things every day.
Exactly!!!!!
I never in my life saw a midi setup that lasted. Or even was fully set up to that matter! 😂
@@Delouser69tim exile's flow machine and beardyman's beardytron (osc, but still) comes to mind. other than that yeah haha
I got into modular to escape my midi controllers!
The MIDI controllers called, they want u back
@@mylarmelodies Luckily my phone routes telemarketers to silence.
This is very much the realm I've been in lately. Every time I'm about to dive into modular, I discover something new I can do with Ableton and Max for Live with Push as a controller and the modular GAS subsides.
Thanks to Krishna
Thank you for posting this video. It comes at a pivotal time where I am looking at the most updated and advanced way to get on with production of my first music album collaboration. This is just Brilliant 👍🏼⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Bitwig + The Grid tends to be better for this than Ableton.. Each module in its modular system can auto-map to 8 knobs, so you don't need to spend time mapping and you can basically have hands on control of modular right out of the box.
Great tip! I combined this in a single rack so I can make snapshots of each combination that works. Massive workflow improvement, especially when arranging with a live band.
The max for live library is like being a kid in a Candy store. VCV library the same. Did you know you can get the Pamela’s Workout module in VCV? Woohoo more Candy.
Great video Maylar, you helped me once again! You 1000% justified my purchase of modular and moving from all things you showed in this video! Cheers 😄
I live to enable
Nice! I have a similar setup in eurorack using either the Erica Synths Sample drum or the 1010 Bitbox micro. I use sample chains on the bitbox and use a midi controller to change samples in the chain 😊
VCV Rack + 8mu will be a nice combination, you forgot to show an example of using the accelerometer, that indeed is a nice feature that you don't gonna get in another cheap midi controller. But i get the point of the video 😁
Great video , I never thought about using the M4L devices with a midi controller.
Yesss! Bitwig is wonderful for doing this, especially now you have project-level macro controls. 8MU is a real peach of a device too
yuuuuuup, I’m gonna need ya to do a deeper dive video on this. This is awesome
This is the amuse bouche for that. Watch this space
Beautiful setup!!! Pro tip: add a 'Velocity' midi effect after the grids/topograpgic seq to spice it up with some humanization/random velocity
It's not the screen that bothers me, it's Ableton Live 🙃 It just presents an overwhelming amount of UI that seems to cater for any number of activities, only one of which I want to do. I got a Lite version of Live with my midi controller and I only ever use it as a VST host.
I got past it by using Audiobus (or AUM) on the iPad instead - it's got a lot of Live's functionality but the UI grows as you add tasks to it. So if you've only one instrument and one audio track, you'll only see the UI for that track, plus a couple of controls to extend the number of tracks if you want to. Then there's transport controls... and that's pretty much it. It deliberately stays out of your way until you add stuff, plus it means you have a dedicated UI per song/production which suits me so well.
I know it's not for everyone but the simple starting point and ability to get as complex as you need is so much more welcoming. It's so much more inviting for me than the vomit of UI controls Live spams all over your screen!
Plus they work on my phone too, well enough to sketch out a quick idea or experiment at least.
I finally upgraded from live 10 intro to live 12 suite and I was amazed at the instruments on live 12. Sooo yes I am in total agreeancewith this!
I'm not a musician or music producer, I'm just a hobbyist. Every time I try to figure out a DAW, any progress I make in one session? Is undone in the next session where the shit I did last time doesn't produce the same effect this time.
Don’t give up!
I was struggling with the blank piece of paper syndrome which comes with a DAW. My way around this is to regularly update the Default Set in Ableton Live. I’m slowly building my perfect setup. Good luck finding your way through!
Cool, I'd love to see you do a series where each episode you cover how to map a button set, fader set, or knob set to different devices for hands on control. Like I know how to do all this, I know what all the things do, but it's actually super helpful to see ways other people are using and combining these tools to do different things.
Nice idea. I just developed a DROID patch using the 8MU doing similar things with a small (42hp) Eurorack setup.
Real Eurorack: For people who want analog synth
Midi Controller and VCV Rack: for people who are cool with using computer software.
Real Eurorack can be worth it for some electronic music producers.
Now, that's good advice,thank you so much....
Nice one mate! New subscriber ✌🏻
Gotta love kit like this. Would be fun to take on a flight. 🙂
Love this!
Ive had many audio cards also and ended up with an Audient Evo 4 as my AD/DA.. its near perfect latency and Audio Quality for very little $. For me its also about portability , vcv rack, max , the faders in the video, a Yoga touch screen mini laptop and a akai mini controller are all i need lately. Great Vid !
Those faders look very nice to fader with
I tried this route but the problem is that I get anxiety about assigning the right controls when my options vastly outweigh the faders and knobs and buttons I have. How do I know which things I’ll want to control until I’ve started jamming? Also layout is a key. With that said I absolutely need to get one of those MTM controllers!
My eyes glaze over with menu diving. It’s so much simpler to just plop down and do stuff without thinking. Honestly once I started learning more about modular I had less fun with it, I started feeling like I HAD to do things a certain way, the happy accidental discovery was gone and it turned into programming. I had much better results with Ciat Lonbarde, SOMA, and Bastl, and go back to those the most.
I use free VCV rack software and if I want a MIDI controller knob or slider remapped, I just drag a virtual cable from it to where I want it to go. Or preset your module layout with switching modules so that you can just flip some switches to change between the predetermined routes. That's one way to avoid extreme menu diving 🤷
Buy 3 or 5 tiny midi controllers and you'll have all the knobs your heart desires.
With a shop full of midi controllers I could not agree more :)
Wow love this ❤
Vcv rack and the og trigger finger is an incredibly strong combo ❤
Good advice!
Bought an intech en16 thanks to this video!
Ahh nice, LMK how it is, they look good
Awesome thanks!
Awesome video! We need more randomness in DAWs to be more creative like eurorack.
Great video. You can also write custom firmware for the 8mu and use it stand alone to send midi to your hardware. I ported Grids and uploaded it to mine, very fun.
What the deuce, you ran Grids IN the 8MU?!
@@mylarmelodies Yeah the Samd21 chip is pretty powerful. I keep trying to link to my public repo but those comments disappear. How best to share that?
@cecilchamberlain9449 Sorry I think it’s my “strict” comment filter (to avoid Telegram scams) - what should people/me google to find it?
It's no good, I can't get past the spam filter it seems 😆
@@cecilchamberlain9449Tom Whitwell wants to get in touch with you.
VCV Rack! Great with midi controllers 👍
I do something very similar with a grids clone in vcv rack. Neat to see the little fader bank in action. I have the korg nanokontrol2. I wonder if there's a version of the music thing fader that's 2 or 3 times the number of faders?
I wish there was!
Hi!
Is there a place where one can buy it already made?
This is super cute!
But I already have two cases of modular 😂
VCV Rack and a Novation Launch Control XL MK2 is a match made in heaven
You read my mind!
I don't have Ableton, but I do that kinda thing with my Alesis VI61 controller and pure data. Or with Bitwig.
Beat Map in Reason does exactly this.
Stop telling me what to do :D
Let Virtual Modular decide for you….with spunky/plunky/springy/bleeping-blooping & surprising results!
Allways with a human, able to edit, sculpt and mute …..and of course unplug
You’re not the boss of me
Except when you’re right :D
Lol
I mean really the nerve of it all 😮😅
Map arp params also is dope
Thanks for another awesome albeit unexpectedly polarizing video. Although I'm an amateur, I love both my Eurorack/grooveboxes and my DAWs. I also happened to love the "toy" and hadn't seen it before but apparently have entered the group of idiots that just ordered one. Personally, I am looking forward to building and jamming with it in my dare I say it DAW.
I still can't believe the amount of hate in the comments for this one! Everyone whining should go chill and make some music.
Nice one!! And ha I think folks are taking the use of the 8MU at face value rather than just being a way of illustrating an IDEA - I’ll likely make more complete examples of this idea at work and perhaps it’ll dawn on folks what could be done with a few MIDI controllers and a carefully designed Ableton template…
Yeah, modular is more about particular tools not the hardware. So having these tools in ableton definately a good step. Now we can just go with modular midi controllers to build control surfaces, which would be 3 times cheaper.
i've actually thought a lot recently about synths recently, and i'm glad to see other people coming to similar conclusions to me. i think the real value of a synth is in its interface, and the circuits in the back usually aren't that important. hell, how many neat synths are there these days that are just a little computer with a front panel of dedicated knobs and buttons? i think that in some ways, a daw/vcv/max msp/etc paired with a controller that clicks well with you is the natural endpoint of that sort of design. there are tradeoffs, but the spectrum of options isn't so limited as "buy an analog synth or spend an hour manually finding the perfect combo of vsts and midi mappings"; i think some of the doubters here would enjoy a system like the organelle or norns that won't force you to stare at your screen to wire thing up (since someone else is doing all that work for you by building the patch). which, as a bonus, simultaneously curates the choice paralysis you might feel.
personally, my only real gripe is that i don't think midi controllers are up to snuff with the controls on hardware synths. i don't know, maybe i'll have to figure out how to make my own at some point, so i can have the perfect mix of all the nice smooth pots and snappy switches and so on that i crave.
I'm in a very similiar situation too, been using my synths as just midi controllers recently. Ableton can do so much more in terms of sound, much quicker (presets) with way more FX flexibility. Probably going to sell some of my gear soon but I'm somewhat happy with the Xone K2 (some weirdness with the encoder mapping tho), the LaunchControl XL (faders & encoders too stiff) and the TR-8S (best one so far but not worth solely as a controller). Faderfox seems interesting but a lot of them are hard to get or really expensive. Push 3 seems like the best in between right now
I use my favourite big hardware synth as my MIDI controller, including all of its knobs and faders being sent out over MIDI and used for DAW or plugin controls 😊 its two envelopes are perfect for organ plugin drawbars, for example. Plus they all feel great!
Only modular lets me sequence rhythm separate from pitch in a way that makes sense
Veeeeeery nice 😋
I bought a faderfox UC4 just to control ableton and my TR-8s instead of buying an octatrak
Fwiw, the best thing on Octatrack was the crossfader scenes. Drambo on iOS has the same functionality with much much better sound quality and more options. Sold my OT because of it.
I have the EC4, no faders, just all encoders, opens up the AS1s I have.
The UI is a little quirky, but once you get your head around it, these devices are a godsend and take up almost no space at all.
People talk about lack of LED rings, you can see the screen with bars or numbers so not needed.
Thanks for the Drambo tip, looks great. And yeah I’d love to have everything Faderfox make!!
I've already had the aversion therapy for mapping controllers. 😂
Do it once and hit Ctrl+S!
@@mylarmelodies I forgot to say the aversion therapy was delivered via MPC One 😱😀
That also works.
My hardware grids never worked quite this well. I must have been doing something wrong. Back to the drawing board again.
Are you using a stereo mic array to record VO? Sounds weird
This is indeed a weird one sonically - recorded on my phone
I remember in a pod you said you had a Mac mini M-processor. Is it the M1? I want to know is the M1 enough for not needing to freeze tracks often? I know it depends on total processing incl. FX etc. looking to upgrade but want to save by buying a few years old and want an M processor
Yep it’s the original M1 and it’s still absolutely banging.
@@mylarmelodies amazing. Thanks for the quick response. I thought it was the M1 but couldn’t remember the episode you mentioned it in!
The M1 generation macs are pretty good value second hand now! I just hate freezing stuff cos I can’t tweak parameters when jamming
I am blown away by current possibilities of dsp on computers. Ableton 12 + maxforlive is such a rich creative environment, especially with the amazing range of plugins now available.
Strong agree. A new golden age of computer music too - the basic M1 will be a massive upgrade on anything that’s a few years old and I don’t easily come to the limits of mine except with video stuff with loads of plugins, audio stuff barely touches the sides.
I suspect that one of the only ways to replicate this "semi-affordably" within Eurorack would be with Expert Sleepers Disting modules - even the "selector kit" would be possible! Two Disting Ex units could proooobably do it, or maybe one EX and three Mk4. Affordable? No. But "affordable-ISH!" Maybe tack on a a uO&C (formerly "ornament and crime" to handle Turing by itself?
For me modular is more about analog synthesis. Already have vcv rack and cherry voltage modular for the digital stuff
So here I am... looking at my #SCREEN watching someone showing me his #SCREEN while he tells me NOT to look at a #SCREEN . Now that's something 😂 Clearly, I should stay away from screens 🤪 || That sample selection thing can be built with a drum rack, too. Nestled within an instrument rack. I did that like 10 years ago, but since I am not using computers for making music anymore, I forgot the specifics of how to set it up. Was nice though. Fading through snares and percussions and what not.
Lovely little #MIDIcontroller tbh ❤
It’s the size of a credit card (the ironey does not escape me as modular costs an arm and a leg) but way too small
I did exactly that. A Faderfox PC 12 and a akai midi Mix. We can never have enough knobs! I'm currently messing with TouchOCR as well. But hardware knobs can't be beat.
What do you control with it?
TouchOSC
@@mylarmelodies- Voltage Modular 2, Bitwig. I have a nice euclidian drum machine and bass generation patch controlled by the Akai, and then use groups of 8 (4x2 rows) which map nicely to Bitwig's instrument control panels for instruments. Over time, I've standardized on where specific sets of knobs point to: eg. in the general instrument sets, know know 1 is cutoff, 2 reso, 3 amp attack, 4 amp release, 5 LFO, 6 Effect Mix, 7 Delay Mix and 8 is amp volume. Of course, things do get far more varied as I build out voltage patches, or hook up VSTs like the CX-80, Elka-X or PhasePlant. But messing with voltage while having hardware knobs is just awesome. Sure, not as classic as actual hardware, but I value my marriage too much to start building up a eurorack collection. 🙂
👍 Thanks for this writeup, nice
@@mikabreto yep. That's my dyslexia for you! I need a few days to create a good script.
I bought a Volca Modular. That put me off a modular rack straight away.
DAW/VST just isn't going to get to the next level until someone makes a proper 'modular' controller! My mind is blown no one has even tried! Seems like such an easy ask. Yet, where is it? Can you imagine having little modular units. Some with all knobs, some with slides, some with LCD monitors, a short 1" wide lcd. OLED strips. The tech is here and dirt cheap. The ultimate midi controller is awaiting the right investor to make it happen!
lividinstruments.com/news/elements-modular-midi-control-system/ & the Palette system as well, and I’m sure others!
@@mylarmelodies Discontinued. I guess I'm wrong about it being a big hit. LOL. I'd imagine the pricing is the issue. Peeps aren't paying the same or more than an actual module for a midi only controller! Right idea, wrong price I guess. THANK YOU THOUGH> I'm working on a simple block design that fits into a modular type rack system. Cheap, easy DIY. Just not the time or money to make it go anywhere beyond my own desk. LOL.
Just noticed the Intech Studio Grid in the latest SOS, worth investigating by the looks of it
Is there WIDI on that thing?
No, there is 3.5mm MIDI out tho FWIW
I understand that with a MIDI controller, you can do perhaps 10000000000x better and diverses sounds with powerful software that can obliterate classic hardware modular. The thing is...modern software are so huge and the possibilities are so infinite that it can kill creativity. With a modular synth hardware, you have to craft your sound using limited options, these restrictions can force you to get more creative and imaginative than with a infinite powerful options. That is my opinion, but the great composer Stravinsky said exactly the same thing back in the day. (And I'm sure he did not use MIDI)
Think on the idea tho - you don’t have limitless MIDI controllers do you, so in making MIDI controllers the front end, you force yourself to limit your options if you make those the way you interact with your sounds/melodies…
it's maybe 10% similar to using a modular synth. so much about modulars is about the patching. you'll still be sitting in front of the screen clicking and dragging and minimizing and expanding... and if you're already on the computer, why not use the other software aspects of the DAW, of course you will use that.
You might be clicking and dragging to export your jam, but the point here is you CAN perform and write music without looking at a screen…
This is just the usual midicontroller (/fader) that we've had for many decades to control (or jam) with the DAW / softsynths. but sure, this is 100% how you should advertise the product. good luck setting this up without looking at the screen a lot though.
The point is controlling Max4live objects that work like some of the easiest-to-perform Eurorack modules you can get
The controller is cool like everything Tom does, but you and I know that’s not the same experience…. Come on alex! Eventho i bought a Mac studio yesterday, but that’s by far not the same like a modular system.
I wish you’d told me this 28 years ago.
Nice to watch this. For those of us with limited cash its really nice.
And when Ableton 12 is out the midi tools in it will mean generative music on steroids :)
Unless you build it yourself, its literally the price of a good secondhand synth, or a decent new one... Without even accounting for shipping costs lol
Vastly cheaper than a modular though. And yes Live 12 is insane, I have the Beta and the generative MIDI stuff is unbelievable.
Yeah, controllers work nicely without a computer, too.
Optional Velcro hipster belt.
My god what an idea
sold!
It’s a verk cool thing, but I don’t really get the comparison to modular. Especially when free software like VCV rack (as mentioned in the video description) exist.
?
Putting Grids and Turing Machine style “workflows” 🤮 into Live. Obvs VCV is even more true to the modular concept, and it’s something I’m exploring too. But that’s more complex to grasp for a newbie and a total divergence from Live (which a lot of people are comfortable with…)
@@mylarmelodies Yeah, and I think that's a very powerful way to create generative music within Live, especially when coupled with cheap midi controllers like the one you've shown. All in all, what you show in this video is *very* cool.
For me the confusing part is that it's presented as an alternative to modular synthesis, be it hardware or software, but in reality two plugin versions of modules are shown and how to use them. For me that's kinda like saying that the Arturia Microfreak & Minifreak are modular synthesizers bcs their oscillators implement Mutable Instruments Plaits. But like you are stuck with the UI of a MicroFreak when using that one, in this case you are still living within the Live environment and work with it. So to me what you show is much more an extension to "making generative music within Live" than an alternative to modular synths. Mainly bcs a lot of the factors that make modular synthesis great are the interaction between the different modules and not one specific module. At least that's my PoV on this. Still think what you've shown is very cool :)
@@tainmere Thanks - my point is that if you can make MIDI controllers into performative environments, where you can make music without looking at the screen (and Turing Machine and Grids are two key ways I do this on modular) - then that is very much the essence of a hardware 'groovebox' - what many, including myself, have built modulars to do. And many people will already own Live, and some MIDI controllers, but perhaps not use them like this. But investing in modular is perhaps totally prohibitive. So this really IS a potential alternative. And maybe a necessary one...?
Yeah. Im not gonna buy ajother hardware synth until ive actually used the one I currently own lol.
My deal is that I would want my faders to be 24 inches so I can really stretch my arms
You need to talk to those dudes who made the 25 foot long 909
anyone know of anything similar at a much less expensive price point?
Not sure there’s anything so small. But obvs many MIDI controllers at smaller prices, like the Korg NanoKontrol. You could look for a Philip Rees C16 (I have one!) which is old school 5 pin DIN MIDI with 16 faders in a small box. The fader throws don’t feel half as good as this though, bit scratchy.
Haha little nob..... seriously this vid is wicked! Thank you 😊
And you can do the same for free in vcv rack ;)
Ah, a great moment to once again rant about Behringer never releasing the BCR32...
yes daddy, help devalue the second hand module market for us further !
That’s to do with the cost of living crisis son
VCV Rack gang
Ok I will.
Post your findings pls x
Im laughing so hard right now thinking of you on that podcast saying "out of all the modular youtubers im the worst at making them" and then you really outdid that which preceded you. A person born in a tribe isolated from civilization could get put in a room and just asked the best way to film this and he would have not chosen this way. Filming your screen and recording your speakers is so on brand im laughing so hard
‘But but Modular! It’s about the knobs! The wires! The uniqueness of a patch that once removed can never be recreated!’ 😅
Love your content and way of presenting. Keep it up!
i think midi is far away from being close to useful. It's a nightmare. Logic has something cool that is having assigned the parameters to a selected track X knob, so if you change track, you also have it on the second, like a protocol. That being said, Logic midi assignments are horrible. If you are new, you can spend 20 minutes to assign a Mute. Ableton is easier but very limited but the midi controller makers do a horrible job to match the layouts. It's impossible to get a controller, assign 20 synth parameters and then remember where they are to the point they feel intuitive. I also tried with the top notch faderfox for years (putting names on the screens of the EC4s etc) and other cool stuff (like having k2s) and in the end I spent tons of money to get nothing but frustration. Midi will never feel like an instrument (unless it's scripted, like Machine or Push). All the other stuff is garbage or only applicable to very simple things (a master effect or something). Gonna buy all hardware and get poor and have fun again and play.
I wasted 3 years of my life trying to learn ableton, bitwig, cubase 😢 i think I should not try anymor couse it not a learning issue but rather just very uninspiring software to use😞 all daws is incredible boring to use eaven look at
Works just fine, until you run into the 128 steps problem.
€100 😮
Other MIDI controllers are available. And second hand…
lol...sure I will don't do that....
I mean yah… but then ableton costs how much?
Sort of ignores that reality to imagine this is cheap.
I think quite a lot of people who can’t afford Ableton manage to get a copy of it anyhow … but my point is that “cheap” is relative to what that investment would get you in modular - a copy of Live Suite is about the cost of a single mid tier price module. And of course VCV Rack (with “Grids” available for it) is free…
Guess I’m the only sucker not out here yoinking a copy lol… yah I guess you’re right at that point. I’m not discounting how cool it is, but I will say I’m unlikely to stop with modular any more than you are; and that’s a very good thing because I really enjoy your show
To put it simply
"That art truly a troll"
You forgot the cost of a decent laptop and ableton live, just sayin 😉
Well yep those would still be a decent sized investment. But how much would it cost to put together a performance modular synth with a couple of concurrent voices, drum modules and sequencing? 🤯
Drambo.
For your health..
So ten years after getting me hooked on expensive modular, you tell me to get a midi controller to go with a DAW…. You might as well tell me, I should have bought bitcoins back then instead of modular gear.🥺
Oh my god didn’t you get my email?!
@@mylarmelodies no…….😢.
or just get a touchscreen
Not even close to modular,even if you had 6 of these. And for that price ill take a cheap polysynth thank you
You’re welcome
This is no where near the same workflow as dawless. Don’t expect similar results or experience
I would respectfully encourage people to explore what’s possible rather than shutting an idea down on the face of it. If Autechre play live with max patches, you can too.
@@mylarmelodies of course not sir. Appreciatie your videos. Just stating my opinion based on my own experience, regarding your title. It can certainly be useful for some people, but in my experience it is not the same workflow experience. Thx for your work!
Nah.. :)
no, no, thrice no
sorry
(yes, I am a Eurocrack addict)
show us how to use those faders one handed that thing would slide all over the place. total buyers remorse, praying on hipsters and noobs to music. don't waste your money
Firstly you can stick an 8MU down with velcro - but don’t overthink the use of the 8MU…the point is MIDI controllers + free Max4Live objects
@@mylarmelodies I get it was not a video about the toy, but read the comments people were focused on the toy. I don't think people should waste their money unless they have a special niche that only a micro sized controller will fill. Velcro is a horrible idea, last thing I would want is random Velcro stuck to things. When people are getting into music and they see something cool on RUclips they start thinking like if they get this product it will help them in music. Looks cool in videos sucks everywhere else. Not an attack on you, just feel bad for anyone that does not get it yet and buys things like this.
I understand mate
A couple of big fallacies here: 1) that because something is small it must be a toy, and 2) that one can’t make music with toys.
TOO LATE!!!! WHY YOU DIDNT DO THIS VIDEO EARLIER MATE????? :)
Tell me about it!