It's surprising how few know the taper length matching technique, I've been advocating it for years and haven't come across anybody who knew. Saves me doing a video myself.😂
Already have my tickets for MACH 2024. Not been for about 10 years, looking forward to it. Haa hhaaaaa, "After a bit of rummaging around I found this Bison backplate". Just the sort of thing we all have stuck with the crap under the bench.
Thats an (IMpressive) result on the final runout, but then we all knew you would settle for nothing less than virtually perfect at the micron level no less-lol Dam* nice work-!
Holy crap! For the first time in a very long time I'll be in the UK from 13th April until April 21st. Well me ole' china, maybe I will see you at MACH 2024.
Excellent Job Mr C you got that spot on. Laughed when Jefferson bought in the doubleboost mug thought we were going to hear some ripe machining language
Very well done Mr Crispin. I adapted my cheap import ER32 collect chuck for my Myford lathe, and did what David Ticehurst suggested making the bolt holes a fraction oversized to adjust for run-out. I'll look out for you at MACH 2024. Cheers Nobby
Very good sir, If I might make some suggestions/observations. If you do not have an alignment pin or such for the positioning of the chuck, you should consider marking the alignment permanently and also develop a torque pattern and use a torque wrench to tighten the “D” camlocks so that you can introduce consistency in the return to the calibrated position. It can be very frustrating with the “D” style chucks getting them to return to alignment without an installation procedure. The addition of tommy bar holes in the adapter will aid the collet nut manipulation greatly. Thank you and as always take care.
Very nice addition to your lathe. It came out great! Trigonometry doesn't lie. Sine bar is the way to go. I aiso see that your butlers ballisical skils are very accurate.
When indicating a taper with sine bar and Jo-blocks, I would use some 1-2-3 blocks to span any interference (nuts, protrusions, gaps etc) positioned resting on the cross slide, with the sine bar (and Jo-Blocks) on top of the 1-2-3 blocks, butted up directly along side the ground sides of the compound itself. This then Allows accurate pre positioning of the compound's precise angle for machining by moving the compound with sine bar, back and forth against a stationary indicator with the least amount of additional setup blocks, parallels, positions etc. Simple, if you have a lathe that allows you to use the compound itself with sine bar directly to set your precise angle.
Fantastic video always a pleasure to watch. I would like to do something similar for my own lathe and the adjustment for the run out was amazing looks a great job 👍
That's a nice build, I enjoyed the video. I've recently been doing the same with an ER40 and a 5C collet chuck build. Thee grip-tru feature is I think essential for collet chucks as the accuracy required from them is generally greater than for 3 or 4 jaw chucks. Cheers from the Outback.
Looks like a nice Hardinge lathe hiding in the back ground. Hope to see you at clay mills again soon we are currently rebuilding our Mitchell lathe with the help of a local and very generous slide way grinder
Great outcome Crispin. On a note, I was wondering as to whether you ought to pin a comment from you, saying that this was NOT a standard ER 40 Collet chuck, but an ADJUSTABLE one for concentricity. Standard ones are just a rear register, and you get what you get for runout, unless you make the bolt holes oversize and the register undersize. Unless you purchase a super accurate chuck the typical runout is 0.01 mm ( 10 microns ). Just so others who try to do a similar job but do not realalise that yours was not a bog standard Ebay Chinese chuck. Regards from Australia.
Very neat assembly! Always very telling with an old Lathe just when you are getting that smug feeling when you see a couple of tenths on the clock, grab the spindle and see how much you can move it up and down. Might be an idea for those not fully versed with the advantages and draw backs of collets vs. chucks is to do a comparison of the two methods. I use collets a lot on model aero engine work making needle valve assemblies, making all my own nuts and screws including Phillips head ones, conrods, gudgeon pins, induction venturis etc. Round collets mostly in 1/64" steps from 1/32" to 35/64" but also hex. ones and a square one for a certain job. C3 type.
I have the D1-5 version of that PM ER40 chuck, and I 3d printed a large pin wrench for the body of the chuck to hold it while I tighten/loosen the ER40 collet nut. There are 8mm holes around the perimeter that fit a piece of 8mm drill rod nicely. I just made a slightly undersized hole in the wrench body, heated the drill rod, and pressed it in, and it's been lots more effective than putting the lathe in low gear.
I should also say that I meant it as a prototype for machining one out of 3/4" aluminum plate as a rotary table exercise, but so far the PETG 3D print configured for strength has held up. ☺
Sooooooo glad to hear that you're back to your locomotive. Disappointed that Jefferson didn't come out with some cutting quip. May I suggest he sits down to an episode or two of Jeeves and Worcester?
Good video with some great ideas for the less experienced and experienced machinist or model maker. The one about moving the carriage 2mm was one I had never considered. I would perhaps quibble with your idea of going ER40, all you have now are two machines that do the same thing. I think I would have put the butler on furlough, saved the pennies and bought a nice second hand Crawford multibore chuck and collets. Bigger capacity larger individual collet range, sized for D1-6 capacity machines, and a fine bit of British engineering to boot. Of course if you cannot comprehend the thought of making your own tea I fully understand your choice.
Superb after a day on my milling machine cutting out rods for one of our Locomotive Projects, Now which of our 9 Lathes will I be making a collet chuck for? Yes 2 Myfords Super 7s and 3 Raglans among them. YES 2 were rescue cases which we got free and would have ended up in the skip. Thank you again Mr Crispin. David and Lily Reading.
Great video, I liked the trepanning for the protector plate and the taper machining tip. I am worried about your hat though you may well have lost the fit. A word in Jefferson's ear I think!! All the best!!
I great video as always. I would suggest however that 5C collets are both much better and easier to setup. Any collet is better than no collets on a lathe but a simple draw-tube and pull-in collets is faster, more accurate and as it is designed for work holding, rather than tool holding, there is no requirement for the length of the workpiece like ER. It is also possible to buy 5C collets in any price range you might want, including somewhere in the middle which is not the case with most tooling. I have both the complicated closer (very complicated it is Swiss) and simple drawbar and I only use the latter as it is better for one-off work. I am not sure which internal taper that lathe uses but for the common ones you can fine premade adapters, such as MT5 to 5C or B32. Otherwise making one really isn't so bad compared to all this work :)
Yes all good points although for work holding its very handy to be able to clamp any diameter between 1 and 26mm. 5C has the down side of requiring a nominal size unless you are going to but soft ones and bore them out.
Excellent result Mr Crispin. I noticed that the lathe runs with the safety guard up. This can only mean one of two things: 1. It is an older type lathe which does not incorporate a safety cut out switch, or 2. The electricals have been bypassed. I highly doubt that a man of your engineering pedigree would stoop that low to circumvent a safety feature...but in case you did.. please show us how! I also noticed that Jefferson is multi-skilled. Next he'll be asking for a pay rise.
Hi, it's a machine of an era when the guards were not interlocked. I think it's more to stop coolant splashing you rather than the modern ones which stop you leaving the chuck key in ect.
Very enjoyable & interesting. Did I miss the paper calculation re the 7.25 degree angle with the sine bar & packing? I would have been interested in seeing that. Although I never remember how to do it after🤣
That was a cracking video. I have used the Trig method due to not having slip gauges and stacking fag papers gets tedious in a drafty shed. Loverly bit of machining there with that kind of run out you need to be proud of your skill and knowledge.
👍 what would be the consequence if the block used to sweep was not perpendicular to lathe ways? I know when indicating or turning a taper, the tool or indicator must be on center line. Thanks for sharing.
You would get the same problem as the one you mentioned. The closer to the centreline the better. You would end up with the indicator stylus running across the block face at a funny angle giving you a strange reading. If you look closely at the my footage, the indicator almost shows a small arc. That is probably down to the error you mention.
Great result. I couldn’t see what type of collet clamping nut you were using. Some people swear by ball bearing clamping nuts to improve consistency of clamping and runout. Do you have any preferences?
Another flawless presentation Crispin. Well done. Thanks for the shout out.
Hi Joe, what a coincidence, I was just catching up on some of your videos yesterday! Hope all's well. Cheers. Crispin.
"either the clock's broken or that's very good" - that's one way of sounding surprised :D well done!
Relieved to see Jefferson deliver the tea without the slightest utterance of 'clumsy bastard' 😂
Please never stop making videos! The combination of engineering and humor is unfound in any other channel. So very well done.
You, Joe Pie, Stefan, etc bring such joy to my life.
It's surprising how few know the taper length matching technique, I've been advocating it for years and haven't come across anybody who knew. Saves me doing a video myself.😂
Thanks for the videos Mr Crispin. Greetings from Western Australia 🇦🇺
All the things that made Britain great in one short video. What more could we ask for!! 👍
Already have my tickets for MACH 2024. Not been for about 10 years, looking forward to it.
Haa hhaaaaa, "After a bit of rummaging around I found this Bison backplate". Just the sort of thing we all have stuck with the crap under the bench.
Great to see you’ve come along way since your early years, it’s great you’re not dependent on CNC.
Yes I've been at it a while now!! Cheers.
Thats an (IMpressive) result on the final runout, but then we all knew you would settle for nothing less than virtually perfect at the micron level no less-lol Dam* nice work-!
A veritable master class. Educational and interesting from beginning to end. Thank you for sharing. 👏👏👍😀
Holy crap! For the first time in a very long time I'll be in the UK from 13th April until April 21st. Well me ole' china, maybe I will see you at MACH 2024.
Excellent Job Mr C you got that spot on. Laughed when Jefferson bought in the doubleboost mug thought we were going to hear some ripe machining language
Two microns on the tapered part. That's indeed a very nice result. I think I would be happy with more than that.
Glad to hear the B1 is back next. I’ve been waiting years for it’s return. 🎉
I'm not a machinist but I learn so much from your videos. Thank you.
LOL - excellent variation to your signature hat toss, ive always loved it never lose it, a mr. Crispin trademark
The depth of knowledge and humor in your videos are incredible, thank you so much!
Very kind!
Very well done Mr Crispin. I adapted my cheap import ER32 collect chuck for my Myford lathe, and did what David Ticehurst suggested making the bolt holes a fraction oversized to adjust for run-out. I'll look out for you at MACH 2024. Cheers Nobby
I'm glad to see you back. I hope your schooling is going well. Settling in to enjoy this video.
I absolutely love the introduction! Bravo 👏Mr. Crispin !
Nicely done Crispin. Enjoy Mach, I think it was about 22 years since I was trusted to go😊
The little woman of the house WILL let you go as long as you leave your wallet at HOME! lol
24:24 Had been missing the musical accompaniment. Thanks for bringing it back!
I wish grandad were with us to see yoour channel, lol, he'd have loved your openings. Brilliant 😂
Nicely done Mr Crispin. This shows what can be done with a little planning and good machining practices. Looking forward to your next video.
Very good sir,
If I might make some suggestions/observations.
If you do not have an alignment pin or such for the positioning of the chuck, you should consider marking the alignment permanently and also develop a torque pattern and use a torque wrench to tighten the “D” camlocks so that you can introduce consistency in the return to the calibrated position.
It can be very frustrating with the “D” style chucks getting them to return to alignment without an installation procedure.
The addition of tommy bar holes in the adapter will aid the collet nut manipulation greatly.
Thank you and as always take care.
It is always a pleasure watching your work. You explain clear and with a good sense of humour.
My annulus was puckering with that pressure turning..outstanding work as usual.
I have been waiting patiently for the locomotive work to begin! In the mean time this work on the Harrison has been great!!
Fantastic project! The Butler is a welcome addition to the shop.
Well in all my years never was I shown that trick referring to circle pitch thanks mr crispin
Either the clock is broken, or that is very good. Very good sir!
Very nice addition to your lathe. It came out great! Trigonometry doesn't lie. Sine bar is the way to go. I aiso see that your butlers ballisical skils are very accurate.
Fantastic job, Crispin!
Also, I’m VERY glad to hear that we are coming back to the locomotive build!
That's a tool that will serve you very well for many years to come, and you have the pleasure of knowing that you hand crafted it.
When indicating a taper with sine bar and Jo-blocks, I would use some 1-2-3 blocks to span any interference (nuts, protrusions, gaps etc) positioned resting on the cross slide, with the sine bar (and Jo-Blocks) on top of the 1-2-3 blocks, butted up directly along side the ground sides of the compound itself.
This then Allows accurate pre positioning of the compound's precise angle for machining by moving the compound with sine bar, back and forth against a stationary indicator with the least amount of additional setup blocks, parallels, positions etc.
Simple, if you have a lathe that allows you to use the compound itself with sine bar directly to set your precise angle.
Thank you. Move the carriage 2mm, it seems obvious now you point it out. I'm excited to see the loco build again, it's been a while.
An excellent result Mr.Crispin! You couldn't have done it better to my mind. I look forward to seeing you use this ER40 set up in the future.
Excellent Mr C. What a useful addition to the lathe.
Love this! Thank you for sharing MrCrispin! We are thrilled to have you on board.🥰
Mr Crispin, completely hooked on your video’s, looking forward to more locomotive building. Rob watching on Exmoor
All the very best
I’m no engineer but I do enjoy your videos Mr Crispin 🤠👍🏻
Fantastic video always a pleasure to watch. I would like to do something similar for my own lathe and the adjustment for the run out was amazing looks a great job 👍
That's a nice build, I enjoyed the video. I've recently been doing the same with an ER40 and a 5C collet chuck build. Thee grip-tru feature is I think essential for collet chucks as the accuracy required from them is generally greater than for 3 or 4 jaw chucks. Cheers from the Outback.
Great vlog Mr Crispin, a learning under taken from it, thinking of making a similar set up on my lathe. Stay well.
What nice work . I am always impressed with your craftsmanship Mr. Crispin .
Thanks
The pressure turning technique works well, I have used it to produce large washers and disks.
Brilliant, really enjoyed that!
Phil
nice job on that collet chuck adaptation.
Looks like a nice Hardinge lathe hiding in the back ground. Hope to see you at clay mills again soon we are currently rebuilding our Mitchell lathe with the help of a local and very generous slide way grinder
Sounds good! I must come and film a tour one day.
Great outcome Crispin. On a note, I was wondering as to whether you ought to pin a comment from you, saying that this was NOT a standard ER 40 Collet chuck, but an ADJUSTABLE one for concentricity. Standard ones are just a rear register, and you get what you get for runout, unless you make the bolt holes oversize and the register undersize. Unless you purchase a super accurate chuck the typical runout is 0.01 mm ( 10 microns ). Just so others who try to do a similar job but do not realalise that yours was not a bog standard Ebay Chinese chuck. Regards from Australia.
Thanks Dave and good point.
I had no idea they made adjustable er chucks. Thanks gents!!
I like this Jefferson fella, hope he gets paid well.
His popularity is growing, hopefully he doesn't find out or I may have to increase his allowance.
@@MrCrispinEnterprises Ah the stingy landed gentry ...
@@MrCrispinEnterprises One has to be mindful of the servants not getting ideas above their station🤣
Very neat assembly!
Always very telling with an old Lathe just when you are getting that smug feeling when you see a couple of tenths on the clock, grab the spindle and see how much you can move it up and down.
Might be an idea for those not fully versed with the advantages and draw backs of collets vs. chucks is to do a comparison of the two methods.
I use collets a lot on model aero engine work making needle valve assemblies, making all my own nuts and screws including Phillips head ones, conrods, gudgeon pins, induction venturis etc. Round collets mostly in 1/64" steps from 1/32" to 35/64" but also hex. ones and a square one for a certain job. C3 type.
Thanks
Those Deckels are nice machines. I run a prototype shop and I’d very much like to have one. Great work on the collet chuck.
Thanks yes it's a prize machine tool.
I love seeing relatable channels cross promote one another.
It really can be a rising tide lifting all boats.
Clock doesn't move "thats the least run out I have ever measured.........Very satisfactory
Made me giggle
I am the same as you! What made us take this as a career?! I love it! See you at MACH! I will say hi
Regards,
Ross Adams
I have the D1-5 version of that PM ER40 chuck, and I 3d printed a large pin wrench for the body of the chuck to hold it while I tighten/loosen the ER40 collet nut. There are 8mm holes around the perimeter that fit a piece of 8mm drill rod nicely. I just made a slightly undersized hole in the wrench body, heated the drill rod, and pressed it in, and it's been lots more effective than putting the lathe in low gear.
Thanks, good idea.
I should also say that I meant it as a prototype for machining one out of 3/4" aluminum plate as a rotary table exercise, but so far the PETG 3D print configured for strength has held up. ☺
Sooooooo glad to hear that you're back to your locomotive. Disappointed that Jefferson didn't come out with some cutting quip. May I suggest he sits down to an episode or two of Jeeves and Worcester?
Nice job Mr Crispin,thanks for the video.👍👍
looking forward to seeing you working on the locomotive again
Hi Mr C, another fine piece of work. Time to relax with a sherry me thinks. Jefferson..........
Good video with some great ideas for the less experienced and experienced machinist or model maker. The one about moving the carriage 2mm was one I had never considered. I would perhaps quibble with your idea of going ER40, all you have now are two machines that do the same thing. I think I would have put the butler on furlough, saved the pennies and bought a nice second hand Crawford multibore chuck and collets. Bigger capacity larger individual collet range, sized for D1-6 capacity machines, and a fine bit of British engineering to boot. Of course if you cannot comprehend the thought of making your own tea I fully understand your choice.
Interesting points. Thanks
Superb after a day on my milling machine cutting out rods for one of our Locomotive Projects,
Now which of our 9 Lathes will I be making a collet chuck for?
Yes 2 Myfords Super 7s and 3 Raglans among them. YES 2 were rescue cases which we got free and would have ended up in the skip. Thank you again Mr Crispin. David and Lily Reading.
Brilliant as always, thanks Mr Crispin 👍🏻
Love the Doubleboost mug
Double sided tape works very well for attaching plate material to a faceplate.
Great tutorial - thank you! I'm looking fwd to seeing your loco progress👍
Great video, I liked the trepanning for the protector plate and the taper machining tip.
I am worried about your hat though you may well have lost the fit. A word in Jefferson's ear I think!!
All the best!!
Superb job. Always a joy to watch.
17:06 This is probably the part which will stick most in my mind about the never-ending sine bar vs tailstock debate! 😅
Could you have made a mini threaded screw/bolt with a screwdriver flathead to put into the holes? And loctite them in
Possibly although there aren't many threads to use and also it would have probably be equally time consuming. Good idea though.
Very nice ... another 'Master Class' in "How to do it Proper" ... Thank you ... 😁
Realy good and With som great english humor!😀👍
Great open. Thank You Jefferson!
Double boost is laughing
Kind of precise. Simple then fascinating. Tks and take care.
Make sure you punch a make on your orientation of the marvelous chuck. Hope it’s repeatable. Thanks for sharing.
I great video as always. I would suggest however that 5C collets are both much better and easier to setup. Any collet is better than no collets on a lathe but a simple draw-tube and pull-in collets is faster, more accurate and as it is designed for work holding, rather than tool holding, there is no requirement for the length of the workpiece like ER. It is also possible to buy 5C collets in any price range you might want, including somewhere in the middle which is not the case with most tooling. I have both the complicated closer (very complicated it is Swiss) and simple drawbar and I only use the latter as it is better for one-off work. I am not sure which internal taper that lathe uses but for the common ones you can fine premade adapters, such as MT5 to 5C or B32. Otherwise making one really isn't so bad compared to all this work :)
Yes all good points although for work holding its very handy to be able to clamp any diameter between 1 and 26mm. 5C has the down side of requiring a nominal size unless you are going to but soft ones and bore them out.
Love the intro. So English and so Crispiny.
The NYC CNC / Clickspring blue tape & super glue is a great way to hold sheet stock like this in the lathe.
Well done as always. Enjoyed.
Excellent result Mr Crispin.
I noticed that the lathe runs with the safety guard up. This can only mean one of two things: 1. It is an older type lathe which does not incorporate a safety cut out switch, or 2. The electricals have been bypassed. I highly doubt that a man of your engineering pedigree would stoop that low to circumvent a safety feature...but in case you did.. please show us how!
I also noticed that Jefferson is multi-skilled. Next he'll be asking for a pay rise.
Hi, it's a machine of an era when the guards were not interlocked. I think it's more to stop coolant splashing you rather than the modern ones which stop you leaving the chuck key in ect.
Excellent work once again!
You can get a 5c that screws the collet in using a chuck key
Nice lathe. I’ve got the model 165.
Very enjoyable & interesting. Did I miss the paper calculation re the 7.25 degree angle with the sine bar & packing? I would have been interested in seeing that. Although I never remember how to do it after🤣
Ok, I'll show it next time!
Why not mount the collet chuck directly on to the mandrel nose with a morse taper reducer?
Generally for the morse taper style chucks you need a draw bar to hold them in meaning that you can no longer put anything down the spine bore.
Awesome work
That was a cracking video. I have used the Trig method due to not having slip gauges and stacking fag papers gets tedious in a drafty shed. Loverly bit of machining there with that kind of run out you need to be proud of your skill and knowledge.
Beautiful job mate.
Enjoyable, Mr. Crispin! 👍
👍 what would be the consequence if the block used to sweep was not perpendicular to lathe ways?
I know when indicating or turning a taper, the tool or indicator must be on center line. Thanks for sharing.
You would get the same problem as the one you mentioned. The closer to the centreline the better.
You would end up with the indicator stylus running across the block face at a funny angle giving you a strange reading. If you look closely at the my footage, the indicator almost shows a small arc. That is probably down to the error you mention.
Great result. I couldn’t see what type of collet clamping nut you were using. Some people swear by ball bearing clamping nuts to improve consistency of clamping and runout. Do you have any preferences?
Ah right I didn't know that. That was just a standard nut from memory although I will double check.
If it was a “standard “ nut then you have a good one.
Very nicely done!
Nice to see another video Mr Crispin. Is that way oil as a cutting fluid? Not WD 40 on aluminium?
Bravo Mr Crispin. Bravo.
nicely presented sir
Love that large slotted setup block. That originally part of a shaper?
No it's just a box plate for general machining use. I got it out of an old school tool room which was re modelling it's self.
@@MrCrispinEnterprises it's lovely!
fantastic video - thank you!