Sulla was actually very pro-senate, he gave huge powers to the senate and took many powers from the tribunes. Caesar on the other hand was a man of the people, probably the greatest populist in ancient history.
@@alvaro4867 ironically enough, sulla actually pardoned caeser after he was forced to flee. Caeser was Gaius Marius's nephew in law who was the main rival of sulla
@@ilect1690 Sulla ordered Caesar to divorce from his wife Cornelia, daughter of Marius' principal supporter, Cinna, that he refused to do. Caesar fled in Sabina, but was captured. Sulla was then convinced by some of his friends and supporters, several influential women, and even the Vestal Virgins to pardon Caesar, even if he reportedly commented that they would have regretted it dearly because "I see many Marius in this man".
Cato was a kid when Sulla took power, and actually Sulla was a very "senate friendly" guy. All his reforms were made only in order to restore the privileges for the senatorial aristocracy which had been weakened before by Marius (uncle of Caesar) and Cinna (father in law of Caesar)
Yeah. Hollywood absolutely makes havoc of Ancient Roman History....the average American is too ignorant and uneducated in the Classics to get the disparity.
paolo bignardi Cato was a kid and Sulla was definitely trying to restore “Optimate order.” However, he definitely does so in a very populare way and did whack an awful lot of the aristocracy, though he did so with the support of other members of the senate. This film does make Sulla look basically just like Marius or Caesar, but it’s cause it’s v hard to portray that individual complexity that Classical figures often had. After all, most roman dramas often portray the populares and Optimate divide as if they are political parties, when it was in fact largely individuals swinging between both groups of opinion for various reasons, ideologically and material. Like Cicero is often portrayed as this massive democratic republican when he swung all time time from Optimate to populares and back again. After all, he almost was a fourth member of Caesar’s first triumphate.
Richard Harris was a beast in the arts... "...I may withdraw that, then again I may not; I will let you know after dinner, but for your sake, you better hope the food is good!" That was brilliant delivery of some terrifying lines
@@rickster578 That is also probable. Still imagine someone saying this to you and meaning it... you might as well go find a high peak coz the stress alone is too much
I'd say Sulla is a combination of Richard Harris' iconic roles: He possesses the soft but authoritative voice of Albus Dumbledore, the military prowess of Marcus Aurelius, and the ruthlessness of Oliver Cromwell.
@@luftim Yes, of course, but did the tribunes truly represent their people? They had the right to veto the action of the magistrates, but they had no real legislative or executive power. And they were not allowed to leave the city of Rome, so their actions and availability was limited to the city. Nowadays the people also elects its "tribunes", but do they really represent our interests? The pro-election promises are often forgotten after the election. I assume, that it was similar in ancient Rome.
@@Lumpenkasperle The plebeian assembly WAS the people. And they had legislative authority, they could propose laws directly to the pleibean assembly without going to the senate.
We have a house of representatives, which is the equivalent of the plebeian assembly. The senate is actually meant to represent the states, not the people directly. Most people don't know this, but up until fairly recently, there were no elections for senate -- senators were appointed by state legislatures. That's how the founders intended it. The law was changed in 1913. Frankly it made more sense in the original construction; now instead of one body that represents the interests of state governments entirely, we basically have a super-house. It's redundant.
Byzantine41 Except that the history is shot to bits. Cato wasn’t even 15 when Sulla took power and the depiction of Sulla is ahistorical here. I do agree that they are both brilliant actors though.
@@provablegrub4581 dude come on they just wanted to show how threatened the senete would have seen sulla,a senete which was fullied with Marius supporters,Sulla himself had strong opinions on how the senete should faction But you are right he is portrayed completely inaccurate since in his mind the people of rome was just a mob which could only be controlled by a strong senate ,he wasn't so much a tyrant who wanted to just eat and fuck but he truly valued political stability
"Do you know how you got that dent, in your top lip? Way back, before you were born, I told you a secret, then I put my finger there and I said "Shhhhh!""
Any one who loves this movie and would like to experience the roman history asif they were reading the dune novels or Ice and fire anthology should read Colleen McCullough's Rome series of books. Truly epic. Six books of awesomeness. All the heroes and villains are there doing their thing. The protagonists are Marius first, then Sulla, Pompey, Caesar(obvs) and Octavian. Such a good read. Having said that, it would take even an average reader a couple of months to get through them all but it's well worth it.
I have read them twice. It helps that she was a visiting speaker on Roman history at Harvard (I believe. Memory fades.) History set to drama. I often wonder why we change history “with poetic licence”, when history is so great by itself.
Sulla: "Cato, why is your mouth hanging open?" That would have been a low-blow if he asked that to the Cato from HBO's Rome, since his actor suffered a stroke.
@November It wasn't pro Caesar the actor was just very charismatic. Like the real Caesar. Re watch a lot of his scenes, and pay attention to the actual dialogue.
@@C00kiesAplenty It's def pro Caesar. Best example is how dirty they do Cato in the series. Instead of the stoic and famously uncorruptable Senator he was in real life, they portray Cato as a guy throwing a temper tantrum. Who's primary concern is keeping power in the aristocracy rather than being fearful that Caesar is another Sulla in the making. If I remember right, Sulla isn't even mentioned once in the HBO series.
Something that wasn't lost on Cromwell's critics at the time, John Milton even directly quotes Juvenal; "we too gave advice to Sulla, now we give it to the people."
Of course both men took power through military force after a civil war and became dictator of their nation and marched troops into senate/parliament to impose their will on the members
Aqw aq So sorry, I didn’t recognize who I was dealing with. 23 people gave it a thumbs up. Sorry I didn’t affirm you. You are a good person and people like you. I wish I could give you a big hug 🤗.
The hatred between Marius & Sulla spilled out across Rome into one of the nastiest civil wars of the Republic. Its good to see pivotal Roman figures such as Cato & Sulla portrayed by heavyweights like Walken & the late Harris. Well done! And yes Sulla did put up proscription list of his enemies that included Senators,equestrians & commoners. By the second time Sulla took Rome Marius was dead,and Sullas vetern army defeated his son. The amazing thing is Sulla gave up the dictatorship & retired! Caesar later criticized Sulla for surrendering power. But Sulla died at home in his bed,Caesar died from stab wounds from Senators at the foot of a statue of Pompey.
It's said that, the same day Sulla renounced to dictatorship, one man publicly insulted him. Sulla stated: "Idiot. From now on no dictator will resign anymore."
Beyond the historical inaccuracies dealing with the persons shown in the scene, the legionaries are outfitted completely wrong for the time frame. During the first century BC legionaries would be wearing chainmail, and a Montefortino-type helmet.
@@JOhnDoe-nl4wj Different issue. You can't teach the whole production to speak proper Latin, as no one alive even knows what it sounded like. You CAN have the production wear the proper attire and use the proper weapons, because we have archaelogical evidence of those things.
Regardless of his misrepresentation Sulla Richard Harris was one of the finest actors ever! He could have played any Greek or Roman or Egyptian with flair… he just read the script he was given .. But this really does bring you into the full movie right away
This is the Roman Republic still, and Harris is playing Sulla, a Consul and a Dictator of Rome. He's being portrayed as accusing the Senate as not being representative of the people but he belonged to the Optimates "party" and wouldn't have cared about such a thing - for him the Senate would have been an aristocratic institution, and in any case, his strongest opponents were from the Populares side.
@@dohalim-il-qaras Yeah, but those words are much more apt for Marius. Sulla was very pro-senate. His reforms as a dictator brought back Roman legislation of about two centuries. He deprived the Plebeian Tribunes of their veto power over laws passed by the Senate, and practically abolished the Lex Hortensia (which made all resolutions passed by the Plebeian Council, known as plebiscita, binding on all citizens). After his reforms, the senatorial class, the aristocrats, had all the power. That's why the only hope for the "populares" was a man that could bypass the Senate thanks to military strength. Like Caesar.
To be fair most senators did their time in the legions and as governors and functionaries in the provinces. While prestigious and lucrative they were not all orgies and wine.
They all did spend time in the military, not so much as legionnaires, but their entry level was sort of like starting at Lieutenant and being a junior officer. And it wasn't most of the Senatorial class it was all in the Republic. Although someone like Cicero had a very short military career and made his name in the law courts. Making a name for yourself as a military leader was the most common way to achieve the Dignitas and Fama to run for high office. Having a big name like coming from the family of the Caecilii Metelli or Cornelii Scipiones was vitally important to. Although as others above have pointed out the Novus Homo like Marius won high office too.
The only guy who treated Senate this way was Emperor Maximinus Thrax, brutal savage of low birth, and he never met Senate or was in Rome (his head was). Some Emperors however openly mocked the Senate, like Caligula (yes, he did it real) and Commodus.
Commodus was not the sniveling politician that historians have made him out to be. Not at ALL. He merely hated the backstabbing politics of the senate as he grew up watching them closely. He obviously, as a gladiator, preferred to face his enemies head on. I believe this is why he mocked them openly. The first couple of years of Commodus reign went much the way his father's reign went. The senate AND their HISTORIANS hated him.
3:56 "I can`t possibly kill everyone so I will kill only you" Numbnuts`s bigmouth got him killed. If I was a Senator when Sulla came in I would stay seated,never meet Sullas`s gaze and try to make myself as "small" as possible, would`nt you?
Ah yes, Roman soldiers wearing Lorica Segmentata armor a full 100 years too early, Cato in the Senate chatting with Sulla at a time when he would have been a child, smells like Hollywood
By all accounts and measures the Romans had the most sophisticated form of government at the time, one that prevailed to be the basis for all modern societies to come.
Sulla would not have said that to Metellus. Metellus was one of his strongest allies and most reliable Legates. Metellus was courageous enough to ask because he knew that.
He was but in the later years as during the early days the man fought against the Senate power for the benefit of the state but when he was finished he was worried that others would replicate him .
You never watch him as a gangster of New York. Federal USA is modelled on Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece. Federal USA does allow a few Plebs in to give the illusion of a Constutional Republic with strong ties with Democracy, yet it isnt a Real Democracy. Switzerland is a real Democracy. Federal USA has Congressmen and Congresswomen and the same for Senators casting votes for absent members who are paid for being absent. Federal USA Government run by gangsters, traitors, child molesters and criminals. Who will rarely if ever be jailed or executed for their crimes.
@@fernandoduarte8067 this is the guy who played Russian Roulette with the Vietcong in the movie the Deer Hunter. This is the guy who told the king of the jungle story in Pool Hall Junkies.
Cato was 13 years old at this time(Sulla's civil war) Why is he a senator These filmmakers always portray Cato to be older than he should be (HBO rome too) so that they can give him the archetype of old conservative aristocrat even though he was 5 yrs younger than Caesar & 11 years younger than Pompey and he was born in a plebian (albeit rich) family
@@toschememestation1031 He was governing the Iberian peninsula and had repeatedly beaten the armies that Sulla sent against him. It was not like he was being punished.
@@neutronalchemist3241 thier is a reason, why Sertorius in Iberia was tolerated And two generation later, sextus pompeius in Sicily, needed to be crushed Sertorius was hiding out, fortifying his position and allying with tribes, that hated Rome anyway His success, was based on his personal influence in the region So it was likely, that everything would crumble, after his death And even if that would not have been the case, the problem would never grow, out of proportion So the issue could always been dealt later On the other hand, Sextus Pompeius in Sicily only needed to play Pirates of the Mediterranean and intercept some grain ships To make things in Rome so miserable, that they offer him south Greece, if he would stop staving them And after he refused, they acted immediately Agustus was even bagging Anthony in the east,for help Which indicates how desperate the situation was So one could argue, that his insurrection was way more successful In my opinion Sertorius is remarkable for his attempt, to export the concept rome, to a different region, basically trying to create a hole new state But not so much for his longterm success
*Fun Fact* Sulla was actually an ally of the conservatives on the Senate (The Optimates), which was the majority of them and only the The liberals (The Populares) along the tribunes that feared Sulla because the are allies of Marius in the senate, So most of them find their names on the Proscription (Sulla's Black List)
Sulla was protrayed as a wanton sadist. However, Gaius Julius Caesar's death showed that he wasn't sadistis, but realistic. Caesar was so unrealistically eager to be friends with everybody again after defeating them in battle and destroying their ideals that it ended up killing him. Sulla knew better, and so did Octavian.
The1980Philip -- I shall add and challenege. Julius was a populist and wanted the approval of the people, it fuelled his ambitions. That unrealistic eagerness was a consistent PR move to seem generous and lenient. By constantly making friends he wanted to seem the nice guy, and stay in power. Sulla and Octavion weren't interested in playing that game to the same extent as Julius.
Like Chronicler said Caesar wanted to spare as many senators as he could so as to preserve all the senators since they were sort of celeberties of their days and held influence and support. pr moves and preserving the senate
It's kind of ironic that the senate didn't turn on Sulla but did to Ceasar. It kind of showed that Ceasar was too merciful which made the senate not fear him and it cost him his life.
I understand artistic license, but what would have been so hard about making this even vaguely conform to history? Oh I guess whoever wrote this would have needed to actually learn Roman history...
I was thinking that when I watched. That portrayal of Caesar sounded nothing like the man that was. For all of Caesar's self-interest and ambition, he was not tempestuous and evil as .he is portrayed here. I don't recall reading that he ever made a direct threat on Cicero's life. I can't imagine that he would have ever made such a reckless risk, killing Rome's most famous statesman. Haven't seen this film, and I won't see any more of it than I already have.
@@andrewdeshazo9343 no worries! Always glad to nerd out over Roman history with other fans. Sulla is a really underrated historical figure I think. So interesting and so comparatively little-known to most people
Not sure about the historical accuracy here, but the acting was extraordinary. The dread and angst of suddenly being under a true tyrant's thumb was palpable and immediate.
This movie oddly painted Sulla as a people's revolutionary when he was quite the opposite. He was a staunch conservative and optimate, and after seizing power, undid many of the popular reforms that his arch-rival Marius had enacted, and greatly diminished the representation of plebians in government.
The tragic of the Roman republic lies within the blind spot of ancient times: Economy. Success was limited to and exained by military virtue and agricultural business. The economical changes that accompagnied Romes growth could hardly be recognized by a value system like the Roman one.
Sulla was an optimale and of noble birth. Well he was poor in His youth and knew the ordinary people but He was no self proclaimed champion of them. He gave more power to the Senate.
We need an hbo “Rome” quality Sulla vs Marius show or movie.
Yessss
I swear once in my wildest dreams, someone was going to make "The First Man In Rome" into a series!!!
@@ElSa-fu8bi it will be game of thrones all over again
I said that myself plenty of times.
@@ElSa-fu8bi I also said that myself plenty of times.
Sulla was actually very pro-senate, he gave huge powers to the senate and took many powers from the tribunes. Caesar on the other hand was a man of the people, probably the greatest populist in ancient history.
Caesar succeeded Sulla in the dictatorship role of Ancient Rome.
@@elperrodelautumo7511 Caesar became dictator several decades after sullas death
@@alvaro4867 ironically enough, sulla actually pardoned caeser after he was forced to flee. Caeser was Gaius Marius's nephew in law who was the main rival of sulla
@@ilect1690 Sulla ordered Caesar to divorce from his wife Cornelia, daughter of Marius' principal supporter, Cinna, that he refused to do. Caesar fled in Sabina, but was captured. Sulla was then convinced by some of his friends and supporters, several influential women, and even the Vestal Virgins to pardon Caesar, even if he reportedly commented that they would have regretted it dearly because "I see many Marius in this man".
sulla only took away from the tribunes to stop their vetoes
Cato was a kid when Sulla took power, and actually Sulla was a very "senate friendly" guy. All his reforms were made only in order to restore the privileges for the senatorial aristocracy which had been weakened before by Marius (uncle of Caesar) and Cinna (father in law of Caesar)
Yeah. Hollywood absolutely makes havoc of Ancient Roman History....the average American is too ignorant and uneducated in the Classics to get the disparity.
Ironically, Richard Harris here is more like Marius, not Sulla. The entire speech has Marian characteristics.
paolo bignardi Cato was a kid and Sulla was definitely trying to restore “Optimate order.” However, he definitely does so in a very populare way and did whack an awful lot of the aristocracy, though he did so with the support of other members of the senate.
This film does make Sulla look basically just like Marius or Caesar, but it’s cause it’s v hard to portray that individual complexity that Classical figures often had.
After all, most roman dramas often portray the populares and Optimate divide as if they are political parties, when it was in fact largely individuals swinging between both groups of opinion for various reasons, ideologically and material. Like Cicero is often portrayed as this massive democratic republican when he swung all time time from Optimate to populares and back again.
After all, he almost was a fourth member of Caesar’s first triumphate.
You’re right of course. But Harris is amazing as this type of Sulla. And Walken as Cato is my heart’s delight.
He was probably almost opposite of this scene. Except for the arrogance
Richard Harris was a beast in the arts... "...I may withdraw that, then again I may not; I will let you know after dinner, but for your sake, you better hope the food is good!"
That was brilliant delivery of some terrifying lines
Apparently the food wasn't good.
@@EricWilke1141987 Apparently
@@fodicky4 Or maybe, he was going to kill him either way.
@@rickster578 That is also probable. Still imagine someone saying this to you and meaning it... you might as well go find a high peak coz the stress alone is too much
Christopher Walken as a roman senator...........so much awesome!
Quite surprising huh? :D
Not just any senator, but Cato!
Ha he's holding onto a noble voice
That's because he still has that watch shoved in his ass...
He's one of those American actors like John Malkovich that sound out of place with British actors. Malkovich especially.
I'd say Sulla is a combination of Richard Harris' iconic roles: He possesses the soft but authoritative voice of Albus Dumbledore, the military prowess of Marcus Aurelius, and the ruthlessness of Oliver Cromwell.
Aurelius really wasnt that great of a military leader compared to cromwell.
Richard Harris nailed this character. He projected a proud, capable, and ruthless Sulla, which seems in line with what we know about him from history.
I just watched Cromwell recently. He brought in soldiers into Parliament in that movie like he did here.
We’re talking about Richard Harris and no one is recommending Camelot? No one?!
"I have altered the roman law, pray I don't alter it any further"
haha nice reference :)
Yup. First thing that popped into my head too.
And yes, Caesar was a Sith Lord. His moniker was Orange Julius . . . .
He would hate to have to leave a garrison there....
So Marcus Aurelius used a time machine...
It not Marcus Aurelius is Sulla the frist Roman dictator for life.
@@MiguelPerez-zx2wg I think the same actor played Marcus Aurelius in Ridley Scotts Gladiator.
@@MrMansionIV oh.
@@MrMansionIV Really dude?
@@MiguelPerez-zx2wg it is actually Richard Harris, great actor. Also played M.A. in Gladiator.
"Since when did the senat ever represent the people??" The Romans had the same problems as we have today. ;-)
So sad yet so true.
they had a tribune of the plebian tho. they had veto of any desicion of the consuls
@@luftim Yes, of course, but did the tribunes truly represent their people? They had the right to veto the action of the magistrates, but they had no real legislative or executive power. And they were not allowed to leave the city of Rome, so their actions and availability was limited to the city. Nowadays the people also elects its "tribunes", but do they really represent our interests? The pro-election promises are often forgotten after the election. I assume, that it was similar in ancient Rome.
@@Lumpenkasperle The plebeian assembly WAS the people. And they had legislative authority, they could propose laws directly to the pleibean assembly without going to the senate.
We have a house of representatives, which is the equivalent of the plebeian assembly. The senate is actually meant to represent the states, not the people directly. Most people don't know this, but up until fairly recently, there were no elections for senate -- senators were appointed by state legislatures. That's how the founders intended it. The law was changed in 1913. Frankly it made more sense in the original construction; now instead of one body that represents the interests of state governments entirely, we basically have a super-house. It's redundant.
Two powerful historical characters, played by two heavyweight actors. Wish there were more scenes with these two actors.
Byzantine41 I agree.
Byzantine41 Except that the history is shot to bits. Cato wasn’t even 15 when Sulla took power and the depiction of Sulla is ahistorical here. I do agree that they are both brilliant actors though.
@@provablegrub4581 dude come on they just wanted to show how threatened the senete would have seen sulla,a senete which was fullied with Marius supporters,Sulla himself had strong opinions on how the senete should faction But you are right he is portrayed completely inaccurate since in his mind the people of rome was just a mob which could only be controlled by a strong senate ,he wasn't so much a tyrant who wanted to just eat and fuck but he truly valued political stability
I need to watch this. Those few minutes of Richard Harris did it for me. Amazing actor.
Richard Harris is LEGENDARY!!! His biography is so entertaining!
The only time Albus Dumbledore was able to silence Archangel Gabriel.
"Do you know how you got that dent, in your top lip? Way back, before you were born, I told you a secret, then I put my finger there and I said "Shhhhh!""
Any one who loves this movie and would like to experience the roman history asif they were reading the dune novels or Ice and fire anthology should read Colleen McCullough's Rome series of books. Truly epic. Six books of awesomeness. All the heroes and villains are there doing their thing. The protagonists are Marius first, then Sulla, Pompey, Caesar(obvs) and Octavian. Such a good read. Having said that, it would take even an average reader a couple of months to get through them all but it's well worth it.
I have read them twice. It helps that she was a visiting speaker on Roman history at Harvard (I believe. Memory fades.) History set to drama. I often wonder why we change history “with poetic licence”, when history is so great by itself.
@@colinr1960 I know right. Funny enough I read them twice too. It was like watching a favourite Netflix series but better
Sulla: "Cato, why is your mouth hanging open?"
That would have been a low-blow if he asked that to the Cato from HBO's Rome, since his actor suffered a stroke.
@November
It wasn't pro Caesar the actor was just very charismatic. Like the real Caesar. Re watch a lot of his scenes, and pay attention to the actual dialogue.
Cookies Aplenty just rewatched the series and wholeheartedly agree
@November Cato was younger than Caesar it's true. But the stereotypes of conservatives being old means a lot of people just cast him as an old man.
@@C00kiesAplenty It's def pro Caesar. Best example is how dirty they do Cato in the series. Instead of the stoic and famously uncorruptable Senator he was in real life, they portray Cato as a guy throwing a temper tantrum. Who's primary concern is keeping power in the aristocracy rather than being fearful that Caesar is another Sulla in the making.
If I remember right, Sulla isn't even mentioned once in the HBO series.
Juno's cunt, man! Have you run mad!??
The second time Richard Harris marched troops into a government assembly.
Ha yes, Cromwell (1970) I forgot about that movie
@@kingfedrick4698 First Richard Harris movie I ever saw!
I got Oliver Cromwell vibes
Something that wasn't lost on Cromwell's critics at the time, John Milton even directly quotes Juvenal; "we too gave advice to Sulla, now we give it to the people."
Of course both men took power through military force after a civil war and became dictator of their nation and marched troops into senate/parliament to impose their will on the members
@UNSCForwardontodawn exactly, I was binge watching his Cromwell performance before I found this vid
@UNSCForwardontodawn Jewish actors have played Nazis before.
Didn’t end well for Sulla or Cromwell.
This is basically Richard Harris playing Cromwell again, storming Parliament.
Always interrupting legislation.
“...for your sake, you better hope, the food is good.”
Good job at repeating the last thing that was said, like 100.000.000 commenters before you.
Aqw aq
238 commentators
@@logoseven3365 Yeah nice avoiding my comment..
Aqw aq
So sorry, I didn’t recognize who I was dealing with. 23 people gave it a thumbs up. Sorry I didn’t affirm you. You are a good person and people like you. I wish I could give you a big hug 🤗.
talk about a lot of pressure on the chef...sheesh!!!
The hatred between Marius & Sulla spilled out across Rome into one of the nastiest civil wars of the Republic. Its good to see pivotal Roman figures such as Cato & Sulla portrayed by heavyweights like Walken & the late Harris. Well done! And yes Sulla did put up proscription list of his enemies that included Senators,equestrians & commoners. By the second time Sulla took Rome Marius was dead,and Sullas vetern army defeated his son. The amazing thing is Sulla gave up the dictatorship & retired! Caesar later criticized Sulla for surrendering power. But Sulla died at home in his bed,Caesar died from stab wounds from Senators at the foot of a statue of Pompey.
It's said that, the same day Sulla renounced to dictatorship, one man publicly insulted him. Sulla stated: "Idiot. From now on no dictator will resign anymore."
Marius is my early ancestor that's why I am here marius was a legend
Beyond the historical inaccuracies dealing with the persons shown in the scene, the legionaries are outfitted completely wrong for the time frame. During the first century BC legionaries would be wearing chainmail, and a Montefortino-type helmet.
Exactly, I hate it when people depict Caesar's veterans in lorica segmentata etc. Give me lorica hamata and plumed Montefortino helmets any day!
it was a TV mini series, prob low budget and had to make due with what they had on hand.
Or more likely the Coolius Helm? But for sure mail jerkins. And the gladius hispaniensis.
and they spoke english instead of latin, totally inaccurate!
@@JOhnDoe-nl4wj Different issue. You can't teach the whole production to speak proper Latin, as no one alive even knows what it sounded like. You CAN have the production wear the proper attire and use the proper weapons, because we have archaelogical evidence of those things.
Richard Harris always steals the show when he's acting.
Harris and Walken...two great actors
Sad fact: Sulla's actor died before the series was released.
And they also had to replace him with Michael Gambon in Harry Potter films.
Why did he die so abruptly?
@@yngvebalmsteen9174 Lymphoma.
Sulla did too.
Not surprising. He was barely hanging on in this scene.
Regardless of his misrepresentation Sulla Richard Harris was one of the finest actors ever! He could have played any Greek or Roman or Egyptian with flair… he just read the script he was given .. But this really does bring you into the full movie right away
"I have just changed Roman law" Chilling
Pray I don't change it again. 🤣
I love this scene. Richard Harris is amazing
Richard Harris playing Sulla doing a Marius impression
It doesn't matter what emperor Richard Harris plays, he's always good at it.
I don’t think the Empire had yet been formed.
This is the Roman Republic still, and Harris is playing Sulla, a Consul and a Dictator of Rome. He's being portrayed as accusing the Senate as not being representative of the people but he belonged to the Optimates "party" and wouldn't have cared about such a thing - for him the Senate would have been an aristocratic institution, and in any case, his strongest opponents were from the Populares side.
Sulla wasn't an emperor, but I get your point
Richard Harris always owns the senate when he walks in it.
Sure he does! 😎
@@FilmandClips did it as Cromwell to (parliament)
Does this mean that Richard Harris owns Palpatine then?!?
“Since when did the senate ever represent the people?” Sulla asked calmly.
He make a point.
@@dohalim-il-qaras Yeah, but those words are much more apt for Marius.
Sulla was very pro-senate. His reforms as a dictator brought back Roman legislation of about two centuries. He deprived the Plebeian Tribunes of their veto power over laws passed by the Senate, and practically abolished the Lex Hortensia (which made all resolutions passed by the Plebeian Council, known as plebiscita, binding on all citizens). After his reforms, the senatorial class, the aristocrats, had all the power. That's why the only hope for the "populares" was a man that could bypass the Senate thanks to military strength. Like Caesar.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Yea but i tend to think that most of the thing that "we know" are not accurate...u know what i mean?
To be fair most senators did their time in the legions and as governors and functionaries in the provinces. While prestigious and lucrative they were not all orgies and wine.
yes, I get so sick and tired of how Rome has been presented by Hollywood
As much as I liked this movie, I have to agree with you. So many historical inaccuracies in it
Maybe not all orgies and wine - perhaps mostly wine and some orgies.
They all did spend time in the military, not so much as legionnaires, but their entry level was sort of like starting at Lieutenant and being a junior officer. And it wasn't most of the Senatorial class it was all in the Republic. Although someone like Cicero had a very short military career and made his name in the law courts. Making a name for yourself as a military leader was the most common way to achieve the Dignitas and Fama to run for high office. Having a big name like coming from the family of the Caecilii Metelli or Cornelii Scipiones was vitally important to. Although as others above have pointed out the Novus Homo like Marius won high office too.
@Gary Daniel Well when you take into account the patronage/clientelia system that was practiced at the time, it's not too dissimilar in many ways.
The only guy who treated Senate this way was Emperor Maximinus Thrax, brutal savage of low birth, and he never met Senate or was in Rome (his head was). Some Emperors however openly mocked the Senate, like Caligula (yes, he did it real) and Commodus.
Commodus was not the sniveling politician that historians have made him out to be. Not at ALL. He merely hated the backstabbing politics of the senate as he grew up watching them closely. He obviously, as a gladiator, preferred to face his enemies head on. I believe this is why he mocked them openly. The first couple of years of Commodus reign went much the way his father's reign went. The senate AND their HISTORIANS hated him.
* Is this legal?
- I will make it legal.
Such an amazing actor.
Rome needs more Cow Bells!!!
😂😂😂 You beat me to it!
*stabs Caesar through marble column*
"We ratify your consulship loud and clear."
I was searching for this comment
"Make sure you debate how I want you to debate" - the definition of a dictatorship.
Richard Harris was about 72 (he looks older) when he played Lucius Sulla here. Sulla was only 60 when he died.
@Zfast4you : Well, they would look about as good. :)
Harris is such a legend
Dumbledore is pretty pissed.
3:56 "I can`t possibly kill everyone so I will kill only you" Numbnuts`s bigmouth got him killed. If I was a Senator when Sulla came in I would stay seated,never meet Sullas`s gaze and try to make myself as "small" as possible, would`nt you?
"I have just changed Roman Law."
that line! 💪
Ah yes, Roman soldiers wearing Lorica Segmentata armor a full 100 years too early, Cato in the Senate chatting with Sulla at a time when he would have been a child, smells like Hollywood
yeah that was bugging me too
Try Storm before the storm by Mike Duncan, it is excellent
Christ you must be fun at parties. Its a film mate, get over it
Cato the elder was a contemporary of Sulla. Cato the younger was a contemporary of Caesar. Both Cato’s were relative. Father and son.
take it easy, if these films get a single man of simple mind to read history for themselves, it was worth it to make.
By all accounts and measures the Romans had the most sophisticated form of government at the time, one that prevailed to be the basis for all modern societies to come.
Well said! I guess you are refering to the Republic? A pity it could not survive the expansion of slavery and the decline of the freeman class...
I'm still a fan of Claudius. How crafty he was to assume power in the way he did.
"You have nothing to fear your not on my list"
I wish I had a classics teacher.
Excellent performances and cinematography. I have never seen this movie but will see it now.
Caesar! I think I have a fever!
and the cure...
is more cowbell.
Sulla would not have said that to Metellus. Metellus was one of his strongest allies and most reliable Legates. Metellus was courageous enough to ask because he knew that.
Also, Metelleus is from optimates party, their family was aristocratic
Oliver Cromwell stormed the SENATE!!!
Wasn't Sulla a conservative? He was not a populist.
He was but in the later years as during the early days the man fought against the Senate power for the benefit of the state but when he was finished he was worried that others would replicate him .
For a minute I thought this was some kind of deleted scene from Gladiator.
Christopher Walken playing as a Roman senator....well I've seen everything now.
My first thought too.
You never watch him as a gangster of New York. Federal USA is modelled on Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece. Federal USA does allow a few Plebs in to give the illusion of a Constutional Republic with strong ties with Democracy, yet it isnt a Real Democracy. Switzerland is a real Democracy.
Federal USA has Congressmen and Congresswomen and the same for Senators casting votes for absent members who are paid for being absent.
Federal USA Government run by gangsters, traitors, child molesters and criminals. Who will rarely if ever be jailed or executed for their crimes.
@@pentuplove6542 Wut...
Isnt this the guy that danced in a music video?
@@fernandoduarte8067 this is the guy who played Russian Roulette with the Vietcong in the movie the Deer Hunter. This is the guy who told the king of the jungle story in Pool Hall Junkies.
Cato was 13 years old at this time(Sulla's civil war)
Why is he a senator
These filmmakers always portray Cato to be older than he should be (HBO rome too) so that they can give him the archetype of old conservative aristocrat even though he was 5 yrs younger than Caesar & 11 years younger than Pompey and he was born in a plebian (albeit rich) family
What's? I just know Cato is from plebeian family?
this is an example of the quantum effect: asking questions fucks up the result
No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wrong me, whom I have not repaid in full.” -Lucius Cornelius Sulla, self-written epitaph
Meanwhile, Sertorius in Spain "Hey! I'm still here!"
@@neutronalchemist3241 yes..in spain, with no possibility of returning
And meanwhile some Sulla followers, checking out his ex property
@@toschememestation1031 He was governing the Iberian peninsula and had repeatedly beaten the armies that Sulla sent against him. It was not like he was being punished.
@@neutronalchemist3241 thier is a reason, why Sertorius in Iberia was tolerated
And two generation later, sextus pompeius in Sicily, needed to be crushed
Sertorius was hiding out, fortifying his position and allying with tribes, that hated Rome anyway
His success, was based on his personal influence in the region
So it was likely, that everything would crumble, after his death
And even if that would not have been the case, the problem would never grow, out of proportion
So the issue could always been dealt later
On the other hand, Sextus Pompeius in Sicily
only needed to play Pirates of the Mediterranean and intercept some grain ships
To make things in Rome so miserable, that they offer him south Greece, if he would stop staving them
And after he refused, they acted immediately
Agustus was even bagging Anthony in the east,for help
Which indicates how desperate the situation was
So one could argue, that his insurrection was way more successful
In my opinion
Sertorius is remarkable for his attempt, to export the concept rome, to a different region, basically trying to create a hole new state
But not so much for his longterm success
This was very good! I’m curious to watch the movie now
"....Dumbledore said calmly"
welp, that sure was intimidating.
Wow, actual acting from a time when the cult of celebrity didn't loom over everything.
The movie isn't that old
@@Piterdeveirs333 Still. Acting is dead now, seemingly overshadowed by hype and clout.
*Fun Fact* Sulla was actually an ally of the conservatives on the Senate (The Optimates), which was the majority of them and only the The liberals (The Populares) along the tribunes that feared Sulla because the are allies of Marius in the senate, So most of them find their names on the Proscription (Sulla's Black List)
Even as a guy who loves historical costume pieces and Christopher Walken, this was some batshit insane miscasting.
Christopher Walken is never miscast.
They, should, have had him, speak, Latin. That way, nobody, could even tell.
"Talking about the queen again Bob? On independence day!"
I guess you think i'm kicking you Bob? But it ain't so!!
That's a good representation of the Senate house which still stands.
The senate house which stands today is not the same building. It was built long after the time when this scene is set
Remember the Golden Rule: "He who holds the Power, makes the rules.".
Thought it was "He who has the Gold, Makes the rules"
@@ajc564 Probably so... sentiment is the same for all tyrants.
Julius Caesar, now there was a real man and leader. You can bet if there was TV in those days the common people would have been cheering him on.
Sulla was protrayed as a wanton sadist. However, Gaius Julius Caesar's death showed that he wasn't sadistis, but realistic. Caesar was so unrealistically eager to be friends with everybody again after defeating them in battle and destroying their ideals that it ended up killing him. Sulla knew better, and so did Octavian.
The1980Philip -- I shall add and challenege. Julius was a populist and wanted the approval of the people, it fuelled his ambitions.
That unrealistic eagerness was a consistent PR move to seem generous and lenient. By constantly making friends he wanted to seem the nice guy, and stay in power.
Sulla and Octavion weren't interested in playing that game to the same extent as Julius.
Like Chronicler said Caesar wanted to spare as many senators as he could so as to preserve all the senators since they were sort of celeberties of their days and held influence and support. pr moves and preserving the senate
It's kind of ironic that the senate didn't turn on Sulla but did to Ceasar. It kind of showed that Ceasar was too merciful which made the senate not fear him and it cost him his life.
"What this senate needs, is more cowbell" -Cato
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHERING MOVIE,
I'm sorry, am I watching "Cromwell" again?
“SULLA???” (Lawrence Olivier ala ‘Spartacus’ injection🤣)
Gentlemen! An immovable senate is more obnoxious than an immovable Emperor!
This is an excellent movie.
Spoiler: The food was not good
The Duck of Death striking fear in the heart of wretched polititians...
Walter LOLOLOL Classic!!!
It's the Duke the Duke of death. Nevermind.
Oh look, another movie where Richard Harris bursts into a senate/parliament and takes over.
Richard Harris is incomprable, always.
So Marcus Arelius's ancestor was Sulla?
What America needs.
Sulla is so good in this scene
Love Richard Harris
I understand artistic license, but what would have been so hard about making this even vaguely conform to history? Oh I guess whoever wrote this would have needed to actually learn Roman history...
I was thinking that when I watched. That portrayal of Caesar sounded nothing like the man that was. For all of Caesar's self-interest and ambition, he was not tempestuous and evil as .he is portrayed here. I don't recall reading that he ever made a direct threat on Cicero's life. I can't imagine that he would have ever made such a reckless risk, killing Rome's most famous statesman. Haven't seen this film, and I won't see any more of it than I already have.
@@andrewdeshazo9343 You have it all wrong. Harris is portraying Sulla in this scene, not Caesar. That other senator he threatened was not Cicero.
@@EbonAvatar I am very wrong then! That all sounded exactly like Sulla. :D
@@andrewdeshazo9343 no worries! Always glad to nerd out over Roman history with other fans. Sulla is a really underrated historical figure I think. So interesting and so comparatively little-known to most people
Not sure about the historical accuracy here, but the acting was extraordinary. The dread and angst of suddenly being under a true tyrant's thumb was palpable and immediate.
This movie oddly painted Sulla as a people's revolutionary when he was quite the opposite. He was a staunch conservative and optimate, and after seizing power, undid many of the popular reforms that his arch-rival Marius had enacted, and greatly diminished the representation of plebians in government.
Based.
Ahh poor Richard. He could deliver lines like an eel to water.
The tragic of the Roman republic lies within the blind spot of ancient times: Economy.
Success was limited to and exained by military virtue and agricultural business. The economical changes that accompagnied Romes growth could hardly be recognized by a value system like the Roman one.
Richard Harris, Sulla meeting Richard Harris, Cromwell would be interesting.
Though the movie is inaccurate I really liked the set. Its not plain white marble with red curtains like we see in so many other roman movies.
Sulla looks too old in this version. He should be around 50s at that time
And Kato should be a child.
It’s very sensible to keep 1’s mouth firmly shut and observe
Julius, what a boss.😎
Except that was the dictator Sulla
Walker!One of my favorite actor!But see him as A Roman counsel? Shiiiiittttt!!!
This is so good.
RICHARD Harris !!! AS LUCIUS !!!Sulla 😔And OLIVER Cromwell !!!! A MASTER Of MENACE !!! & An Actor SUPREME g
RIP Richard fucking Harris.
What an actor and as an Irishman he knew full well the tryanny of Kings!
Richard Harris=BADASS🙌😁👍
Imagine if this happened to the elites ,it is a needed experience
I love this scene. I love it! :D
Marty!!! I went back in time and became a Roman senator
Sulla was an optimale and of noble birth. Well he was poor in His youth and knew the ordinary people but He was no self proclaimed champion of them. He gave more power to the Senate.