I wanted to go in-depth with metalcore and how the genre has changed over the decades in terms of what it usually is. It's one of the most unique and rarest genres in metal in terms of how it treats the past compared to other genres, as well as how it's progression has divided the entire movement into little factions. What're your opinions of metalcore as a subgenre and where it's at nowadays?! Be sure to let me know down below!!!!!!! But for now, cheers, rock on, stay heavy and have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day or night, depending on when you see this!!!!!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
I love the old school style of metalcore from the 90’s and 2000’s. Bands like Converge, the Dillinger Escape Plan, Botch, Every Time I Die, Norma Jean, Cave In, Killswitch Engage, early All That Remains, Unearth, Trivium, Zao, and Shadows Fall are amazing. My issues with metalcore nowadays is how stale and repetitive it’s gotten and it using too much electronic and pop elements. It can work in some instances such as Electric Callboy, since they do it creatively but many bands sloppily combine the genres and it ends up making a lot of modern metalcore to be tedious and terrible. Some newer bands do stay true to the original spirit of metalcore like Car Bomb for example who are greatly inspired by the Dillinger Escape Plan.
Yeah there is definitely a LOT of oversaturation in a lot of metalcore and that's coming from someone who loves the genre. Same with deathcore! It's gotten very obsessed with breakdown culture and loudness war shit and it can be a bit much. There's a lot of bad. Car Bomb's a great shout-out, btwww. I'd say that Vein and Loathe also have that same breed of chaotic and mathcore-esque metalcore music that's so chaotic and frenzied. I fuck heavily with both of those bands. If you want another crazy electronic-infused metalcore/deathcore band and or project, Zombieshark is one I'll always shout out LOL
YES!!! Fucking thank you! I'm glad that I wasn't the only guy who thinks metalcore had gone to crap lately! Especially since almost every single band wanted to sound like Mick Gordon since Doom (2016) came out and I'm not even a fan of Mick's work to begin with. What I consider true metalcore is Hatebreed, As I Lay Dying, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, Hell Within, Bullet For My Valentine, Etc. Since Metalcore has gone to crap lately I started getting into Black Metal, Death Metal, Hardcore Punk and Last but not least N.S.B.M and R.A.C.
Whats your take on (no pun intended) Issues? Controversy aside, I absolutely love their last album. Their combination of pop vocals over brutal guitars is a sound I just can't get enough of.
@DJDustKut I’m not a huge fan of them, I know a lot of people like them and that’s cool. I’d still take their approach to pop metal over Bad Omens and Sleep Token though.
Funny, I was talking about this the other day with someone. In early 2000s I got into the "melodic metalcore" bands like trivium, bullet for my valentine and as i lay dying. I always remember those bands being labeled as "the new wave of *insert country name* metal" for a bit and then they all got put into metalcore which I never agreed with. I dunno if it was the music media at the time that did that or what but I actually felt bad for the origional metalcore scene because it kinda dwarfed them at that time. The melodic metalcore scene always swung more metal with very little hardcore influence in sound. For a lot of the listeners of melodic metalcore, it was a gateway and moved on to melodic death metal and more extreme genres while I feel the origional metalcore fans always stayed more in their own bubble being more attached to hardcore and punk. I know for me personally, I was into the melodic metalcore and melodic death metal scene as a teen and then evolved into being into black, death, thrash and folk metal. I was never into hardcore or punk bands at all. It really should've had it's own stand alone genre name but alas here we are.
That's where I started, too, was a lot of melodic metalcore. now realistically I also grew up with a ton of alt metal/nu metal of the 90s/2000s. Still, the gateway effect of those melodic metalcore bands and melodic death metal bands cannnoooooot be understated whatsoever. But I definitely get feeling bad for that era because it felt like the entire identity of it got replaced with something borderline unrecognizable.
Yeah people just called Trivium or BFMV metalcore because metalheads generally disliked them and saw "metalcore" as an insult. Metal journalism has been a disaster.
You did an excellent job capturing the myopia of metalcore here. I got into Trivium, Lamb of god and Hatebreed in middle school. To me metalcore was the musicianship of metal with the breakdowns and groove of hardcore. When I finally got on the internet I saw people hating on metalcore and it sent me into a tailspin, all the bands they were talking about being “metalcore” had silly haircuts, neon colors and did this crab dance with techno music. They were nothing like Unearth or Chimaira! It’s certainly challenging to explain the sound of metalcore to anyone who doesn’t listen to it.
That's the big question. If we're going by its initial definition would be no. But you'd be subsequently wiping out the vast majority of metal so like LOL
@@TheMetalTempestYT yeah, but calling it not metalcore doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Like let’s be real, most of it is just djent or alternative metal.
@@lilienkranz9006 like, it’s not that metalcore is some huge wide experimental genre with tons of diverse sounds. Anything during or after MySpace era / or electronicore isn’t metalcore. Once it lots its hardcore sound, it’s no longer metalcore.
Metalcore has become an umbrella catch-all term for many modern "metal" bands. Metalcore lacks a distinct theme like most metal genres. 90s metalcore was downtuned hardcore; 00s melodic metalcore took on classic, melodeath and thrash influences; 00s & 10s metalcore took on post-hardcore, prog and electronic influences & 10s & 20s metalcore is full of hyperpop and industrial tastes. Thrash is clearly anti-government; death is clearly gore, death and horror; black is walking in the forest, paganism and countryside; power is cringe and fantasy; sludge is a mix of black and power themes and old heavy metal brings to mind Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden & Judas Priest. Nu metal? Fred Durst, Slipknot, Deftones, Korn, Linkin and SOAD. Back to metalcore, was Unearth Crisis, Agnostic Front, Visions of Disorder or Converge the first metalcore band? It's a strange, clunky genre name that very few bands like nor embrace. Even emo has more coherent boundaries. And it's just so weird that metalcore now has gatekeepers. Most metalcore bands like Bleeding Through branded themselves hardcore with metal influences or Killswitch Engage vice versa.
90s metalcore was not downtuned hardcore, it was directly extending from extreme metal, mainly thrash. Majority of the bands lift riffs from Sepultura or Slayer and added more breakdowns.
I mean I’d argue this is true of basically every metal genre including death metal and black metal. Those 2 camps alone are SO subdivided into completely different sounding groups. Dark Tranquillity doesn’t sound anything like Gorguts but both are DM. Imperial Triumphant, Enslaved, and Mayhem are all black metal yet completely different in approach.
Absolutely. I personally just feel as someone engrossed in metalcore the factions are a lot more splintered. At the very least if I listen to an OSDM band vs. A tech death vs. A Melo death band, I can clearly tell the root influence and that it's still death metal which is why it's always fascinating to look into. Also hey trenches! Didn't know you watched the channel haha
First, a thing is that they mostly have the same fanbase. Many people who listen to KS will also listen to BMTH, Knocked Loose, Electric Callboy, Rain City Drive, Slaughter To Prevail, Currents,... Second, to me this is kind of a non-issue to me since there is a lot of word to subdivise it (progressive Metalcore / Post-Hardcore / Electronicore / Deathcore / Hardcore / Metallic Hardcore, Swancore, Symphonic...) and the thing is that when you mixed them, you get a better idea of the band sound, here's some exemples : Post-Hardcore / Alternative Rock will be something like Rain City Drive, Dayseeker, Dead Lakes Metalcore / Post Hardcore will be Blessthefall, Mamphis May Fire, Wage War (while only Metalcore will be more AILD, KS,...) Nu Metalcore will be Cane Hill, Half Me But if you had Hardcore, then it's Alpha Wolf, Dealer, but if you put Electronic, it's Diamond Construct, Void of Vision But if you put Deathcore, it's Within Destruction, Hunt The Dinosaur... This can paint a pretty precise picture by just putting 2/3 words of a 15 words list if you choose carefully and pay attention to the order Interesting video though, just sharinf an opinion
A coworker reintroduced me to metalcore a year ago and recently I've been listening to primarily the mid 2000's stuff. I was around it back then, but admittedly didn't get into it except AILD Frail Words Collapse and a handful of songs from various of bands, but dismissing the ones that were played on the radio. When I started revisiting the ones I was into and discovering/give the bands I had dismissed an honest listen, it was an enjoyable experience and now I'm a fan of most of it. Lots of great riffs, melodies, and intricate parts that has me wanting to play it on guitar and as a middle aged guy, I feel like my younger self being psyched on the music again.
They tried to make metalcore the next big thing after nu metal, pop punk, and emo but it was too much and it was the end of rock/metal in mainstream. Normies like guitars too.
In my experience, it's just that there's not a lot of differences between bands depending on what style of metalcore they play. But in no way does it deserve hate it gets. But ofc this is my opinion. Great video
That's fair! I think it's so hard to nail down what is metalcore and what isn't for a lot of people which causes a lotttt of in-fighting haha. And thank you very much.
@TheMetalTempestYT ofc! And I think countblagorath has a good point, Crossover did it before metalcore was a thing so it could be considered metalcore.
Metalcore was like my first gateway into heavier music when I was about 13 years old. I heard Killswitch Engage on guitar hero, and the rest was history. And I love the whole electronicore sound as well! I feel like it’s really fun to listen to.
For me all metalcore bands have three things in common: Metallic chugging riffs, breakdowns and mid-scream vocals (aka HC vocals). and it's mostly mid-paced and more metallic. Now how they riff or portray themselves is a totally different story. and that's why it has subgenres just like any other heavy genre nowadays (death, black, doom, deathcore, crust punk, etc..)
i agree 100%. Metalcore is an umbrella term like ''Metal'' or ''punk'' at this point. I love a lot of metalcore but i would never call myself a fan of it cuz it kind of doesnt tell anyone anything cuz its just so broad. And the current more popular kind of djent metalcore or more melodic type of stuff is simply just not my thing but gets lumped in with bands embodying pure aggression or chaos. I feel metalcore deserves the over categorization treatment because there currently isnt really any uniform sub categorization other than djent and melo metalcore, the term metallic hardcore has caught on in some spaces but gets gatekept as a ''Fake term'' by a lot of people which doesnt really make it easy to find more bands in that area of metalcore.
Metalcore isn't a genre of music as much as is an idea or a philosophy even, in the same way as punk music, metalcore isn't really smn you need or have to define, bc in its own nature to be against that. Metalcore as it is, is a mix of punk + metal, but the question is, what metal and what punk? You have things like sludge metal and grindcore that not only are big influences in metalcore, but also are themselves a mixture of both metal and punk, but nobody calls it metalcore substyle tho they could, metalcore it's a free label, you only have to respect the general idea of being both metal and punk as hell, and you will be there ❤
When we have to ask that many questions about how to define certain bands, that’s where I choose to throw up my hands and just not care about defining things by genre. Maybe it was cool to have more cut and dried definitions when I was still young to the genre and trying to figure out what I liked, but I trust myself now to just find music that I like and not worry about the particulars.
that's the golden rule! genres don't necessarily matter so much that they should wholeheartedly define something. it's great to have as a descriptor, but outside of that, it can become very unnecessary and we're just splitting hairs as that point.
Metal core was kind of a catch all term originally IMO. I think the bigger thing is metal core was never full of people from a metal background. These were often rock fans, pop punk fans, emo fans, hardcore fans, who were looking for something more intense but still aligned with themselves culturally. So you had many different inputs onnthe birth of the style. The "Metal' aspect is really just lifting heavy guitars are deeper voices. Most metal core is not tracing its roots to Judas Priest, Slayer, Black Sabbath, but took some ingredients from us to use in their own cooking.
I feel like it's the same for almost any subgenre. Somehow Kreator, Megadeth and Anthrax are all thrash metal while sounding nothing alike. Queensryche, Dream Theater and Meshuggah are all prog metal and at first glance it seems like this label means nothing. Mercyful Fate and Motorhead have both been deemed speed metal, while the former is loved by the black metal crowd and the latter is celebrated by rock and roll. It's just past the genre distinctions, bands influences are so individual that pretty much any band exists at the crossroads of many subgenres and trying to pack it into one specific subgenre is just focusing on one tiny aspect of their sound.
Thank you so much for this vid. I have been discussing this topic with ppl and tried doing research into it for SO LONG with almost no results, to the point where I was feeling crazy that no one shared my thoughts. In this vid you took the words directly outta my mouth, and it's such a relief. Yes, it seems the Metalcore label has become very arbitrary and largely meaningless. Not that it actually changes the value or the quality of the music within this genre, but this poor categorization makes it difficult for new fans to find new music tailored to their tastes, or for essayists to make sense of the history of metalcore in retrospect. Which is a shame, cuz yk: Those things are exactly why the concept of "genres" exists ... bc humans love putting stuff into boxes ...
all the Architechscore bands I can't stand. beep boops, choirs, synths, it's so cheesy to me. early Bullet For My Valentine, Trivium, Killswitch Engage, that's my metalcore. and that Earth Crisis 0-0-0-0 riffs get my blood pumping
I'd say BMTH is more to "blame" for that specific subgenre of metalcore; hell, everything Architects have done after Holy Hell sounds like super discount That's the Spirit era Bring Me.
First off, great video! It's definitely hard to categorize all that movement. I'd say there was a lot of diverse sound identity happening from 2005 to 2012, which defined a lot of paths for bands during that period. For example, I've always felt that UK metalcore sounded distinct from US metalcore. Labels also brought their own identity to the scene. While I think there's value in categorizing music, it can sometimes limit creativity in the long run. We had styles emerging from labels like Rise Records and Sumerian, but it’s tough to put August Burns Red in the same category as Asking Alexandria (not being judgmental here)-sonically, they’re really two different sides of the spectrum. ---------- How I try to label styles: Personally, I like the old style of labeling, such as Metallic Hardcore for OG bands like Earth Crisis. Chaotic Metalcore could cover bands like Converge and Dillinger. Metalcore could refer to bands fitting the style of Killswitch Engage, Bullet for My Valentine, As I Lay Dying, and early Avenged Sevenfold. We should have a specific name for bands like Unearth, August Burns Red, Blind Witness, and Parkway Drive (pre-Ire). Sumeriancore (which lacks a proper name) could refer to bands like Born of Osiris and Veil of Maya (early records). The UK movement (also without a proper name) could include early Architects, Bring Me the Horizon (between Suicide Season and Sempiternal), and early While She Sleeps. Electronicore (?) could work for bands like early Asking Alexandria, I See Stars, early The Word Alive, and similar bands. Deathcore could be separated into pre- and post-Infant Annihilator eras. There was also a period of early styles from bands like The Black Dahlia Murder, Dance Club Massacre, and Knights of the Abyss, which sounded different from early Job for a Cowboy, for instance. Personally, I don’t feel the need to dig into Djent, but I think it’s worth mentioning that era when Architects (from Lost Forever // Lost Together to Holy Hell) and others bands pursued that sound, could be referred to as "Djentcore." It gets even trickier with bands like Jinjer and Spiritbox. For me, they’d fall under that "modern metal" style or something similar. Progressive (for lack of a better term) could work for bands like Between the Buried and Me and The Algorithm. ---------- Notes: -I try to avoid terms like melodic and technical, as they feel like umbrella terms to me. -Bands like Blessthefall and We Came As Romans could fall under the post-hardcore scope. Just sharing my point of view on the subject :)
The reason metalcore is so diverse is because the genre and the bands lumped into the catagory happened after the scene was around for a decade. No one was calling it metalcore before around 2012 or so. And around a decade ago people used the label to categorize every heavy band they didn't consider "tRuE mEtAl". So the waters are still very murky. Bands like Shadows Fall and Children of Bodom aren't metalcore at all but still carry the dumb label. I have even heard several people say f*cking DEATH is metalcore. It's stupid.
As someone who has a wide music taste and likes many genres such as extreme metal, punk, rap, pop, and even some country. I love Metalcore because it is one of the only genres that has the ability to add elements of pretty much any other genre. This makes it exciting and fresh. However, I understand that not everyone likes how big and messy it's become. But that's the reason why I love it and at the end of the day it is each to their own.
all fusion genres have the problem your talking about being impossible to classify, since every band is going to have very different percentages of influence from the genres its supposed to be a fusion of. And because its a fusion eventually it can become different and unique enough from where it started
Exactly. And it's so interesting with metalcore because usually with other subgenres of metal you can kinda pin down a general vibe for their aesthetic even if they branch off a lot. Metalcore's SO all over the place with those different perspectives that it's just so ??? most of the time for what the fuck you're listening to lol.
interesting, you listed what I thought of as just a punk rock band as being Metalcore. ... look up the genre description and I'm like huh... so I might like this one. Because they list a bunch of good punk/thrash bands as the influence. And besides Goth Punk and Thrash is my main genres. Unless I'm in my fantasy RPG mood, then epic sweeping metal is best.
You know, kawaii metal is the easiest answer and cheap imo so I'll go with either nu metal, alt metal or industrial metal :p those seem to fit for me edit: realized it was metalcore. definitely melodic metalcore imo or something crazy like mathcore
For me, metalcore and deathcore now are missing a lot the Hardcore elements. You find so little if not any on newer songs. Most modern Deathcore sound like tech death with breakdowns that simply don't feel nice. Most modern metalcore bands are pretty much not hardcore at all, but electronic and ambient. Now, i don’t say this is bad at all, is just the natural evolution of things and sometimes that kind of modern sound is very cool (Crown Magneta or Currents). But when i listen to old All Shall Perish, Parkway Drive, Veil of Maya or As Blood Runs Black… I just think that a lot is missing. There are however, new bands that manage to keep that hardcore sound in the modernity which i believe are worth checking out. Examples are Bodysnatcher, We weren't invited, No Cure, etc.
In my opinion this actually the strength of metalcore. When I listen to death metal or black metal I often get kind of the same, but in metalcore there are much less boundaries to be tolerated. Therefore it's easier to find something fresh and interesting. And there is also not this great division of the scene. For example tech death, melodeath and osdm are already so separated from each other that many bands are stuck in their own niche and don't get much support from the outside.
The first couple waves were more straightforward and generalized. The trick is to branch out as much as possible and find what suits you as the listener. The heavier '90s and early 2000s styles appeal to me for their raw emotion and intelligent lyrics. It also fits the tone of my writing, so that's a nice bonus.
These days I consider metalcore to be a crossover genre that's constantly evolving but as long as metal is at the "core" of the sound, you can distinctly hear metal influence and style along with whatever else it's metalcore
Metalcore is such a hard genre to specifically define that I just use it as an umbrella term for the type of music I listen to. I guarantee some of it isn't actually metalcore but it's in that sphere where its "close enough"
Metalcore at this point is just a meaningless term. So much diffrent stuff has been lumped togheter on the basis of it having hardcore and metal influance ( as if half of metal couldnt also meet that definition ), watering down the introcacies of all these diffrent sounds all becouse of people not defining a genre.
I didn’t really think metalcore was even a music genre really. I thought it was just a scene of music from a period of time. Like how grunge isn’t really a genre at all. Because Alice In Chains is obviously a metal band and Nirvana is a punk band and smashing pumpkins is a shoegaze band.
No that's such a great way of comparing it, yeah. And even then, metalcore has even more weird factions than grunge did. so where does that leave it LOL
I did notice that you call out metal subgenres a lot more. I know for most people not used to metal it can be very pedantic, but I often do not see subgenre labels used as much for metalcore maybe that has a little bit to do with it at least.
If two 'metalcore' bands sound nothing alike, beyond both being heavy, then they are NOT both metalcore. One or maybe even both might not be metalcore at all. A genre is a pretty wide open thing. A sub-genre that is wide open is, by definition, not really a sub-genre at all. Who knows- maybe we need to add a new category called micro-genres. Seriously. As the variety of influences, styles, and sounds within heavy music expand, it only makes sense to add more distinct categories to describe bands' general musical tendancies. The purpose of basic linguistic categorizations of art is to help communicate general styles and themes to each other when discussing art and artists. When the current categorizations are no longer sufficient to facilitate this communication... you have to add some new ones! It seems pretty self-evident. For the record, I don't get too hung-up on genres and sub-genres, and prefer to use what are hopefully more colorful descriptions when describing a band to someone. Nevertheless, genre and sub-genre names still help give people a basic ballpark idea of a band's sound. So I say if micro-genres are helpful in communication... bring on the micro-genres!
The definition of metalcore is in its name lol, it's metal music in its core. It's hard to define precisely because it always strives for innovation and it may be the reason it is so disliked. It is hard for people to accept innovation. Most people like familiarity and tradition.
I always thought the issue with metalcore was not the music, but its fans. They seemed uneducated about the roots that influenced their favorite bands, the metal, hardcore, and punk bands that came before them. Their fans always seemed to be in a bubble and willfully so.
Back when it was starting out it was a pretty solidified term, hardcore with a metal influence. Now it just means any heavyish music with a core style breakdown. Gets muddy with deathcore also existing.
i think acts labeled Metalcore that aren't really influenced from Hardcore should be labeled "Modern Metal" instead, but that's going to open yet another can of worms...
Thats why metalcore is my favorite genre, the variety and diversity of the genre is insane. Fronm the filthiest brutal music to the catchiest poppiest tracks that dont even have screams, metalcore has it all
I feel like the reason for metalcore not going into the past and going into its roots it’s because it’s so oversaturated and commercialized. It’s not niche anymore. Other metal genres are full of old guys who want it to sound old school, metalcore is full of white dudes aged 17-35 probably who want an overproduced clean sound. This isn’t even me complaining, it’s just the reality. Metal heads of other genres listen to other metal genres while modern metalcore fans really just listen to mainstream rock, djent, alternative metal and sometimes deathcore.
That's true! It's interesting though since even some other very commercially viable genres maintained various roots or interesting things. Death metal is far less homogenous than it once was and even got great exposure in the MTV days of Beavis and Butthead and yet it still was death metal. You could even argue Nu Metal stuck to its roots and had a lot of bands willing to do fun stuff while still being 'popular', so it's really fascinating imo
Yo if you do wanna hear new metalcore bands that sound like the 90s-mid 2000s, theres a whole revival going on. Heres a list of them. Since My Beloved Adrienne Balmora Fifteen Rhema Killing Me Softly Withpaperwings Sanction Simulakra A Mourning Star Vicious Embrace Foreign Hands XServitudeX xElegyx Dying Wish Serration Seeyouspacecowboy Wristmeetrazor Flames Of Betrayal Your Spirit Dies Memento Chamber A Dozen Black Roses Mouth For War Buriedbutstillbreathing Serenity Mvrmvr .gif from god Vein Cast In Blood Inmytimeofdying Separated Victim To None WritheInfear Church Tongue Path Of Resurgence Lacerated Seasons Worn A Knife In The Dark
I wanted to go in-depth with metalcore and how the genre has changed over the decades in terms of what it usually is. It's one of the most unique and rarest genres in metal in terms of how it treats the past compared to other genres, as well as how it's progression has divided the entire movement into little factions. What're your opinions of metalcore as a subgenre and where it's at nowadays?! Be sure to let me know down below!!!!!!! But for now, cheers, rock on, stay heavy and have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day or night, depending on when you see this!!!!!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
I love the old school style of metalcore from the 90’s and 2000’s. Bands like Converge, the Dillinger Escape Plan, Botch, Every Time I Die, Norma Jean, Cave In, Killswitch Engage, early All That Remains, Unearth, Trivium, Zao, and Shadows Fall are amazing. My issues with metalcore nowadays is how stale and repetitive it’s gotten and it using too much electronic and pop elements. It can work in some instances such as Electric Callboy, since they do it creatively but many bands sloppily combine the genres and it ends up making a lot of modern metalcore to be tedious and terrible. Some newer bands do stay true to the original spirit of metalcore like Car Bomb for example who are greatly inspired by the Dillinger Escape Plan.
Yeah there is definitely a LOT of oversaturation in a lot of metalcore and that's coming from someone who loves the genre. Same with deathcore! It's gotten very obsessed with breakdown culture and loudness war shit and it can be a bit much. There's a lot of bad. Car Bomb's a great shout-out, btwww. I'd say that Vein and Loathe also have that same breed of chaotic and mathcore-esque metalcore music that's so chaotic and frenzied. I fuck heavily with both of those bands. If you want another crazy electronic-infused metalcore/deathcore band and or project, Zombieshark is one I'll always shout out LOL
@ Loathe, Vein, and Zombieshark are more great bands.
YES!!! Fucking thank you! I'm glad that I wasn't the only guy who thinks metalcore had gone to crap lately! Especially since almost every single band wanted to sound like Mick Gordon since Doom (2016) came out and I'm not even a fan of Mick's work to begin with. What I consider true metalcore is Hatebreed, As I Lay Dying, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall, Hell Within, Bullet For My Valentine, Etc. Since Metalcore has gone to crap lately I started getting into Black Metal, Death Metal, Hardcore Punk and Last but not least N.S.B.M and R.A.C.
Whats your take on (no pun intended) Issues? Controversy aside, I absolutely love their last album. Their combination of pop vocals over brutal guitars is a sound I just can't get enough of.
@DJDustKut I’m not a huge fan of them, I know a lot of people like them and that’s cool. I’d still take their approach to pop metal over Bad Omens and Sleep Token though.
We should start labelling some of this newer metalcore that has no resemblance to the older metalcore as "post-metalcore"
Or octanecore, or djentcore, or alternative metalcore
honestly, that's not the worst idea. that's the post-hardcore treatment :p
@@TheMetalTempestYT or like emo it could be “first wave metalcore” 2nd wave metalcore” you get the idea
@@TheMetalTempestYTJust like how grunge became post-grunge or britpop became post-britpop.
@@CrypticlyEncryptedi'd add nu metalcore as well
Funny, I was talking about this the other day with someone. In early 2000s I got into the "melodic metalcore" bands like trivium, bullet for my valentine and as i lay dying. I always remember those bands being labeled as "the new wave of *insert country name* metal" for a bit and then they all got put into metalcore which I never agreed with. I dunno if it was the music media at the time that did that or what but I actually felt bad for the origional metalcore scene because it kinda dwarfed them at that time. The melodic metalcore scene always swung more metal with very little hardcore influence in sound. For a lot of the listeners of melodic metalcore, it was a gateway and moved on to melodic death metal and more extreme genres while I feel the origional metalcore fans always stayed more in their own bubble being more attached to hardcore and punk.
I know for me personally, I was into the melodic metalcore and melodic death metal scene as a teen and then evolved into being into black, death, thrash and folk metal. I was never into hardcore or punk bands at all. It really should've had it's own stand alone genre name but alas here we are.
That's where I started, too, was a lot of melodic metalcore. now realistically I also grew up with a ton of alt metal/nu metal of the 90s/2000s. Still, the gateway effect of those melodic metalcore bands and melodic death metal bands cannnoooooot be understated whatsoever. But I definitely get feeling bad for that era because it felt like the entire identity of it got replaced with something borderline unrecognizable.
Yeah people just called Trivium or BFMV metalcore because metalheads generally disliked them and saw "metalcore" as an insult.
Metal journalism has been a disaster.
You did an excellent job capturing the myopia of metalcore here. I got into Trivium, Lamb of god and Hatebreed in middle school. To me metalcore was the musicianship of metal with the breakdowns and groove of hardcore. When I finally got on the internet I saw people hating on metalcore and it sent me into a tailspin, all the bands they were talking about being “metalcore” had silly haircuts, neon colors and did this crab dance with techno music. They were nothing like Unearth or Chimaira! It’s certainly challenging to explain the sound of metalcore to anyone who doesn’t listen to it.
Idk, is metalcore really metalcore if it doesn’t have hardcore influence? Even if it’s good?
That's the big question. If we're going by its initial definition would be no. But you'd be subsequently wiping out the vast majority of metal so like LOL
@@TheMetalTempestYT yeah, but calling it not metalcore doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Like let’s be real, most of it is just djent or alternative metal.
@@CrypticlyEncrypted True. Shit sounds nothing like Hatebreed or Integrity, to name a few.
@@lilienkranz9006 like, it’s not that metalcore is some huge wide experimental genre with tons of diverse sounds. Anything during or after MySpace era / or electronicore isn’t metalcore. Once it lots its hardcore sound, it’s no longer metalcore.
It should be said that hardcore punk is quiet diverse as well. 2 bands could take hardcore punk influence and still have little in common.
Metalcore has become an umbrella catch-all term for many modern "metal" bands. Metalcore lacks a distinct theme like most metal genres. 90s metalcore was downtuned hardcore; 00s melodic metalcore took on classic, melodeath and thrash influences; 00s & 10s metalcore took on post-hardcore, prog and electronic influences & 10s & 20s metalcore is full of hyperpop and industrial tastes. Thrash is clearly anti-government; death is clearly gore, death and horror; black is walking in the forest, paganism and countryside; power is cringe and fantasy; sludge is a mix of black and power themes and old heavy metal brings to mind Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden & Judas Priest. Nu metal? Fred Durst, Slipknot, Deftones, Korn, Linkin and SOAD. Back to metalcore, was Unearth Crisis, Agnostic Front, Visions of Disorder or Converge the first metalcore band? It's a strange, clunky genre name that very few bands like nor embrace. Even emo has more coherent boundaries. And it's just so weird that metalcore now has gatekeepers. Most metalcore bands like Bleeding Through branded themselves hardcore with metal influences or Killswitch Engage vice versa.
90s metalcore was not downtuned hardcore, it was directly extending from extreme metal, mainly thrash.
Majority of the bands lift riffs from Sepultura or Slayer and added more breakdowns.
@@kingbeheaded6341 crossover thrash?
I mean I’d argue this is true of basically every metal genre including death metal and black metal. Those 2 camps alone are SO subdivided into completely different sounding groups. Dark Tranquillity doesn’t sound anything like Gorguts but both are DM. Imperial Triumphant, Enslaved, and Mayhem are all black metal yet completely different in approach.
Absolutely. I personally just feel as someone engrossed in metalcore the factions are a lot more splintered. At the very least if I listen to an OSDM band vs. A tech death vs. A Melo death band, I can clearly tell the root influence and that it's still death metal which is why it's always fascinating to look into.
Also hey trenches! Didn't know you watched the channel haha
First, a thing is that they mostly have the same fanbase. Many people who listen to KS will also listen to BMTH, Knocked Loose, Electric Callboy, Rain City Drive, Slaughter To Prevail, Currents,...
Second, to me this is kind of a non-issue to me since there is a lot of word to subdivise it (progressive Metalcore / Post-Hardcore / Electronicore / Deathcore / Hardcore / Metallic Hardcore, Swancore, Symphonic...) and the thing is that when you mixed them, you get a better idea of the band sound, here's some exemples :
Post-Hardcore / Alternative Rock will be something like Rain City Drive, Dayseeker, Dead Lakes
Metalcore / Post Hardcore will be Blessthefall, Mamphis May Fire, Wage War (while only Metalcore will be more AILD, KS,...)
Nu Metalcore will be Cane Hill, Half Me
But if you had Hardcore, then it's Alpha Wolf, Dealer,
but if you put Electronic, it's Diamond Construct, Void of Vision
But if you put Deathcore, it's Within Destruction, Hunt The Dinosaur...
This can paint a pretty precise picture by just putting 2/3 words of a 15 words list if you choose carefully and pay attention to the order
Interesting video though, just sharinf an opinion
A coworker reintroduced me to metalcore a year ago and recently I've been listening to primarily the mid 2000's stuff. I was around it back then, but admittedly didn't get into it except AILD Frail Words Collapse and a handful of songs from various of bands, but dismissing the ones that were played on the radio. When I started revisiting the ones I was into and discovering/give the bands I had dismissed an honest listen, it was an enjoyable experience and now I'm a fan of most of it. Lots of great riffs, melodies, and intricate parts that has me wanting to play it on guitar and as a middle aged guy, I feel like my younger self being psyched on the music again.
They tried to make metalcore the next big thing after nu metal, pop punk, and emo but it was too much and it was the end of rock/metal in mainstream.
Normies like guitars too.
In my experience, it's just that there's not a lot of differences between bands depending on what style of metalcore they play. But in no way does it deserve hate it gets. But ofc this is my opinion. Great video
That's fair! I think it's so hard to nail down what is metalcore and what isn't for a lot of people which causes a lotttt of in-fighting haha. And thank you very much.
@TheMetalTempestYT ofc! And I think countblagorath has a good point, Crossover did it before metalcore was a thing so it could be considered metalcore.
So, you're saying that so many of metalcore bands sounds like AD/DC releasing the same album every few year?
Metalcore was like my first gateway into heavier music when I was about 13 years old. I heard Killswitch Engage on guitar hero, and the rest was history.
And I love the whole electronicore sound as well! I feel like it’s really fun to listen to.
For me all metalcore bands have three things in common: Metallic chugging riffs, breakdowns and mid-scream vocals (aka HC vocals). and it's mostly mid-paced and more metallic.
Now how they riff or portray themselves is a totally different story. and that's why it has subgenres just like any other heavy genre nowadays (death, black, doom, deathcore, crust punk, etc..)
i agree 100%. Metalcore is an umbrella term like ''Metal'' or ''punk'' at this point. I love a lot of metalcore but i would never call myself a fan of it cuz it kind of doesnt tell anyone anything cuz its just so broad. And the current more popular kind of djent metalcore or more melodic type of stuff is simply just not my thing but gets lumped in with bands embodying pure aggression or chaos. I feel metalcore deserves the over categorization treatment because there currently isnt really any uniform sub categorization other than djent and melo metalcore, the term metallic hardcore has caught on in some spaces but gets gatekept as a ''Fake term'' by a lot of people which doesnt really make it easy to find more bands in that area of metalcore.
This: you should at least distinguish between: early "metallic hardcore", 2000s, melodic, prog-djent, nu and "pop" metalcore
Metalcore isn't a genre of music as much as is an idea or a philosophy even, in the same way as punk music, metalcore isn't really smn you need or have to define, bc in its own nature to be against that. Metalcore as it is, is a mix of punk + metal, but the question is, what metal and what punk? You have things like sludge metal and grindcore that not only are big influences in metalcore, but also are themselves a mixture of both metal and punk, but nobody calls it metalcore substyle tho they could, metalcore it's a free label, you only have to respect the general idea of being both metal and punk as hell, and you will be there ❤
When we have to ask that many questions about how to define certain bands, that’s where I choose to throw up my hands and just not care about defining things by genre. Maybe it was cool to have more cut and dried definitions when I was still young to the genre and trying to figure out what I liked, but I trust myself now to just find music that I like and not worry about the particulars.
that's the golden rule! genres don't necessarily matter so much that they should wholeheartedly define something. it's great to have as a descriptor, but outside of that, it can become very unnecessary and we're just splitting hairs as that point.
Metal core was kind of a catch all term originally IMO. I think the bigger thing is metal core was never full of people from a metal background. These were often rock fans, pop punk fans, emo fans, hardcore fans, who were looking for something more intense but still aligned with themselves culturally. So you had many different inputs onnthe birth of the style. The "Metal' aspect is really just lifting heavy guitars are deeper voices. Most metal core is not tracing its roots to Judas Priest, Slayer, Black Sabbath, but took some ingredients from us to use in their own cooking.
the major issues seem to be aping bland djent or shoving huge poppy choruses into heavy songs
definitely think it can be shoe-horned in a lot lol
I feel like it's the same for almost any subgenre. Somehow Kreator, Megadeth and Anthrax are all thrash metal while sounding nothing alike. Queensryche, Dream Theater and Meshuggah are all prog metal and at first glance it seems like this label means nothing. Mercyful Fate and Motorhead have both been deemed speed metal, while the former is loved by the black metal crowd and the latter is celebrated by rock and roll. It's just past the genre distinctions, bands influences are so individual that pretty much any band exists at the crossroads of many subgenres and trying to pack it into one specific subgenre is just focusing on one tiny aspect of their sound.
good vid man
Thank you so much for this vid. I have been discussing this topic with ppl and tried doing research into it for SO LONG with almost no results, to the point where I was feeling crazy that no one shared my thoughts. In this vid you took the words directly outta my mouth, and it's such a relief. Yes, it seems the Metalcore label has become very arbitrary and largely meaningless. Not that it actually changes the value or the quality of the music within this genre, but this poor categorization makes it difficult for new fans to find new music tailored to their tastes, or for essayists to make sense of the history of metalcore in retrospect. Which is a shame, cuz yk: Those things are exactly why the concept of "genres" exists ... bc humans love putting stuff into boxes ...
all the Architechscore bands I can't stand. beep boops, choirs, synths, it's so cheesy to me. early Bullet For My Valentine, Trivium, Killswitch Engage, that's my metalcore. and that Earth Crisis 0-0-0-0 riffs get my blood pumping
I'd say BMTH is more to "blame" for that specific subgenre of metalcore; hell, everything Architects have done after Holy Hell sounds like super discount That's the Spirit era Bring Me.
First off, great video!
It's definitely hard to categorize all that movement. I'd say there was a lot of diverse sound identity happening from 2005 to 2012, which defined a lot of paths for bands during that period. For example, I've always felt that UK metalcore sounded distinct from US metalcore. Labels also brought their own identity to the scene. While I think there's value in categorizing music, it can sometimes limit creativity in the long run.
We had styles emerging from labels like Rise Records and Sumerian, but it’s tough to put August Burns Red in the same category as Asking Alexandria (not being judgmental here)-sonically, they’re really two different sides of the spectrum.
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How I try to label styles:
Personally, I like the old style of labeling, such as Metallic Hardcore for OG bands like Earth Crisis.
Chaotic Metalcore could cover bands like Converge and Dillinger.
Metalcore could refer to bands fitting the style of Killswitch Engage, Bullet for My Valentine, As I Lay Dying, and early Avenged Sevenfold.
We should have a specific name for bands like Unearth, August Burns Red, Blind Witness, and Parkway Drive (pre-Ire).
Sumeriancore (which lacks a proper name) could refer to bands like Born of Osiris and Veil of Maya (early records).
The UK movement (also without a proper name) could include early Architects, Bring Me the Horizon (between Suicide Season and Sempiternal), and early While She Sleeps.
Electronicore (?) could work for bands like early Asking Alexandria, I See Stars, early The Word Alive, and similar bands.
Deathcore could be separated into pre- and post-Infant Annihilator eras. There was also a period of early styles from bands like The Black Dahlia Murder, Dance Club Massacre, and Knights of the Abyss, which sounded different from early Job for a Cowboy, for instance.
Personally, I don’t feel the need to dig into Djent, but I think it’s worth mentioning that era when Architects (from Lost Forever // Lost Together to Holy Hell) and others bands pursued that sound, could be referred to as "Djentcore."
It gets even trickier with bands like Jinjer and Spiritbox. For me, they’d fall under that "modern metal" style or something similar.
Progressive (for lack of a better term) could work for bands like Between the Buried and Me and The Algorithm.
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Notes:
-I try to avoid terms like melodic and technical, as they feel like umbrella terms to me.
-Bands like Blessthefall and We Came As Romans could fall under the post-hardcore scope.
Just sharing my point of view on the subject :)
The reason metalcore is so diverse is because the genre and the bands lumped into the catagory happened after the scene was around for a decade. No one was calling it metalcore before around 2012 or so. And around a decade ago people used the label to categorize every heavy band they didn't consider "tRuE mEtAl". So the waters are still very murky. Bands like Shadows Fall and Children of Bodom aren't metalcore at all but still carry the dumb label. I have even heard several people say f*cking DEATH is metalcore. It's stupid.
Happy Halloween, Lex! 🐆
Happy Halloween to you!!!!!!!
As someone who has a wide music taste and likes many genres such as extreme metal, punk, rap, pop, and even some country. I love Metalcore because it is one of the only genres that has the ability to add elements of pretty much any other genre. This makes it exciting and fresh. However, I understand that not everyone likes how big and messy it's become. But that's the reason why I love it and at the end of the day it is each to their own.
all fusion genres have the problem your talking about being impossible to classify, since every band is going to have very different percentages of influence from the genres its supposed to be a fusion of. And because its a fusion eventually it can become different and unique enough from where it started
Exactly. And it's so interesting with metalcore because usually with other subgenres of metal you can kinda pin down a general vibe for their aesthetic even if they branch off a lot. Metalcore's SO all over the place with those different perspectives that it's just so ??? most of the time for what the fuck you're listening to lol.
interesting, you listed what I thought of as just a punk rock band as being Metalcore. ... look up the genre description and I'm like huh... so I might like this one. Because they list a bunch of good punk/thrash bands as the influence. And besides Goth Punk and Thrash is my main genres. Unless I'm in my fantasy RPG mood, then epic sweeping metal is best.
Hell yeah, it can become a bit weird to know what fits into what so more power to you. Just enjoy what you want at the end of the day.
What do you think Kuromi's favorite style of metalcore would be?
You know, kawaii metal is the easiest answer and cheap imo so I'll go with either nu metal, alt metal or industrial metal :p those seem to fit for me
edit: realized it was metalcore. definitely melodic metalcore imo or something crazy like mathcore
@@TheMetalTempestYT She seems more like she'd be into electronicore, but her liking 578core would be based
The recent NU METAL Core bands that have come out have been awesome
For me, metalcore and deathcore now are missing a lot the Hardcore elements. You find so little if not any on newer songs. Most modern Deathcore sound like tech death with breakdowns that simply don't feel nice. Most modern metalcore bands are pretty much not hardcore at all, but electronic and ambient. Now, i don’t say this is bad at all, is just the natural evolution of things and sometimes that kind of modern sound is very cool (Crown Magneta or Currents). But when i listen to old All Shall Perish, Parkway Drive, Veil of Maya or As Blood Runs Black… I just think that a lot is missing.
There are however, new bands that manage to keep that hardcore sound in the modernity which i believe are worth checking out. Examples are Bodysnatcher, We weren't invited, No Cure, etc.
Bring the core back to core genres
Good summary
In my opinion this actually the strength of metalcore. When I listen to death metal or black metal I often get kind of the same, but in metalcore there are much less boundaries to be tolerated. Therefore it's easier to find something fresh and interesting.
And there is also not this great division of the scene. For example tech death, melodeath and osdm are already so separated from each other that many bands are stuck in their own niche and don't get much support from the outside.
The first couple waves were more straightforward and generalized. The trick is to branch out as much as possible and find what suits you as the listener. The heavier '90s and early 2000s styles appeal to me for their raw emotion and intelligent lyrics. It also fits the tone of my writing, so that's a nice bonus.
These days I consider metalcore to be a crossover genre that's constantly evolving but as long as metal is at the "core" of the sound, you can distinctly hear metal influence and style along with whatever else it's metalcore
Metalcore is such a hard genre to specifically define that I just use it as an umbrella term for the type of music I listen to. I guarantee some of it isn't actually metalcore but it's in that sphere where its "close enough"
Metalcore at this point is just a meaningless term. So much diffrent stuff has been lumped togheter on the basis of it having hardcore and metal influance ( as if half of metal couldnt also meet that definition ), watering down the introcacies of all these diffrent sounds all becouse of people not defining a genre.
5:05 yes
I didn’t really think metalcore was even a music genre really. I thought it was just a scene of music from a period of time. Like how grunge isn’t really a genre at all. Because Alice In Chains is obviously a metal band and Nirvana is a punk band and smashing pumpkins is a shoegaze band.
No that's such a great way of comparing it, yeah. And even then, metalcore has even more weird factions than grunge did. so where does that leave it LOL
I did notice that you call out metal subgenres a lot more. I know for most people not used to metal it can be very pedantic, but I often do not see subgenre labels used as much for metalcore maybe that has a little bit to do with it at least.
If two 'metalcore' bands sound nothing alike, beyond both being heavy, then they are NOT both metalcore. One or maybe even both might not be metalcore at all.
A genre is a pretty wide open thing. A sub-genre that is wide open is, by definition, not really a sub-genre at all.
Who knows- maybe we need to add a new category called micro-genres. Seriously. As the variety of influences, styles, and sounds within heavy music expand, it only makes sense to add more distinct categories to describe bands' general musical tendancies.
The purpose of basic linguistic categorizations of art is to help communicate general styles and themes to each other when discussing art and artists. When the current categorizations are no longer sufficient to facilitate this communication... you have to add some new ones! It seems pretty self-evident.
For the record, I don't get too hung-up on genres and sub-genres, and prefer to use what are hopefully more colorful descriptions when describing a band to someone. Nevertheless, genre and sub-genre names still help give people a basic ballpark idea of a band's sound. So I say if micro-genres are helpful in communication... bring on the micro-genres!
The definition of metalcore is in its name lol, it's metal music in its core. It's hard to define precisely because it always strives for innovation and it may be the reason it is so disliked. It is hard for people to accept innovation. Most people like familiarity and tradition.
I like metalcore
honestly you don’t need to listen to metalcore past 1999
If an “I hate metalcore” guy listens to Prayer For Cleansing or Martyr A.D, they will immediately change their mind.
I always thought the issue with metalcore was not the music, but its fans. They seemed uneducated about the roots that influenced their favorite bands, the metal, hardcore, and punk bands that came before them. Their fans always seemed to be in a bubble and willfully so.
Does metalcore even mean anything anymore?
most of the time, not as much as it likely should for being tossed around so much lol
Its almost like metalcore is multiple genres in one that just happen to have the same name. It has a Breakdown? Its metalcore
The term has been broken since the 2000s, I'm of the belief it should be retired. "Metalcore" is outdated.
Back when it was starting out it was a pretty solidified term, hardcore with a metal influence. Now it just means any heavyish music with a core style breakdown. Gets muddy with deathcore also existing.
Idk what you’re talking about with metalcore bands not going into its roots, there are new bands playing versions of basically every era of the genre
When you have bands likes SpiritBox and Kublai khan TX both labeled as "metalcore" the term means absolutely nothing
i think acts labeled Metalcore that aren't really influenced from Hardcore should be labeled "Modern Metal" instead, but that's going to open yet another can of worms...
Thats why metalcore is my favorite genre, the variety and diversity of the genre is insane. Fronm the filthiest brutal music to the catchiest poppiest tracks that dont even have screams, metalcore has it all
Bro did ur video came from 2008 myspace? 😭
Metal core is great....it's the pop core I can't stand. It's as bad as hair metal.
I feel like the reason for metalcore not going into the past and going into its roots it’s because it’s so oversaturated and commercialized. It’s not niche anymore. Other metal genres are full of old guys who want it to sound old school, metalcore is full of white dudes aged 17-35 probably who want an overproduced clean sound. This isn’t even me complaining, it’s just the reality. Metal heads of other genres listen to other metal genres while modern metalcore fans really just listen to mainstream rock, djent, alternative metal and sometimes deathcore.
That's true! It's interesting though since even some other very commercially viable genres maintained various roots or interesting things. Death metal is far less homogenous than it once was and even got great exposure in the MTV days of Beavis and Butthead and yet it still was death metal. You could even argue Nu Metal stuck to its roots and had a lot of bands willing to do fun stuff while still being 'popular', so it's really fascinating imo
Gay boy music for guys who cant hack it as a metalhead
Who on Earth is calling Vildhjarta a metalcore? That's so off.
The issue with Metalcore is that it’s sucks.
Categorizing music is a fools errand. I have two categories. 1.) I like it 2.) I don't like it. Keep it simple. No need to overthink this shit.
The common issue: Repetitive
Yo if you do wanna hear new metalcore bands that sound like the 90s-mid 2000s, theres a whole revival going on. Heres a list of them.
Since My Beloved
Adrienne
Balmora
Fifteen Rhema
Killing Me Softly
Withpaperwings
Sanction
Simulakra
A Mourning Star
Vicious Embrace
Foreign Hands
XServitudeX
xElegyx
Dying Wish
Serration
Seeyouspacecowboy
Wristmeetrazor
Flames Of Betrayal
Your Spirit Dies
Memento
Chamber
A Dozen Black Roses
Mouth For War
Buriedbutstillbreathing
Serenity
Mvrmvr
.gif from god
Vein
Cast In Blood
Inmytimeofdying
Separated
Victim To None
WritheInfear
Church Tongue
Path Of Resurgence
Lacerated
Seasons Worn
A Knife In The Dark