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What is Gestalt Language, Is Presumed Competence Harmful & Is Scripting Communicating?
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2024
- Dr. Mary Barbera discusses with Sari Risen a few topics such as what is gestalt language, is presumed competence harmful and is scripting communicating?.
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Watch the full video here: • Gestalt Language Proce...
Today I spoke with Sari Risen about gestalt language processing in autism, scripting and presumed competence. Sari references a webinar from Dr. Marge Blanc when sharing information about research and case studies. There is currently no empirical evidence for Gestalt Language Processing as an Intervention Approach. If you have questions about Gestalt Language Processing be sure to listen to the full episode.
Sari Risen is a speech-language pathologist as well as a Board Certified Behaviour Analyst (i.e., a practitioner of applied behavior analysis). She has had extensive experience working with individuals with complex communication needs, including individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorders and individuals with intellectual disabilities. Having conducted her Master’s thesis in the area of augmentative and alternative communication (AAC), Sari has always had a strong interest in this area and continues to have a strong focus on serving individuals with AAC needs within her practice.
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I'm Dr. Mary Barbera and I fell into the autism world more than two decades ago when my first-born son, Lucas, was diagnosed with autism. Since then I became a Board Certified Behavior Analyst, Host of the Turn Autism Around podcast (with more than 1 million downloads), and best-selling author of two books (including my newest book Turn Autism Around: An Action Guide for Parents of Young Children with Early Signs of Autism).
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My daughter is 3 and has been described to me by her SLP as a Gestalt learner and not yet diagnosed as having autism and I'm not sure that she will as she seems to have some characteristics but also is missing some major characteristics, so we will see once she gets evaluated. The strongest symptoms are speech delay and use of scripts to communicate. She seems to learn in phrases that then become a stand-in for individual words. Her first major "gestalt" was "we all fall down" from Ring Around the Rosie. Anything or anyone falling over she would describe as "we all fall down." She wouldn't use the phrase outside the context of something falling (ie it wasn't a stim). Another time, she seemed distressed by another child's toy that was making an unpleasant sound, and I turned it off and told her "It's off now, it's no more noise," and from then, she would repeat that entire sentence whenever any noise-making machine shut off (car, microwave, tv). She has many, many scripts like that that she applies when we see people outside our household, and they are used appropriately enough in context that many people don't suspect that it's a script. She's also been doing this long enough that she's been able to transplant words into her gestalts. Her first food request phrase was "eat some yummy banana?" even if it was a food other than banana that she wanted. She now has the vocabulary to say which food she actually wants, "Eat some yummy apple/cookie/yogurt?" I was a little surprised to hear that this language acquisition modality is considered controversial by some. I am grateful to hear a different perspective on this topic. But in my experience with my own child, I personally find it to be an accurate assessment of the way she has been acquiring language. While we're still trying to catch up with her language milestones, this form of language approach does seem to be working for my child.
Are there any updates that you can share?
Please update as my daughter has same symptom?
I am so grateful that my son's speech therapist knew of Marge's work. She was the first person to identify that my son was autistic and got us on the pathway to support. Marge's work has been incredibly helpful to me understanding my son. My son is in an autism class and one od his classmates is also a gestalt processor. It does really affect and reflect his entire way of thinking. I think it's no co-incidence that my son was on 2nd centile for fluid reasoning as he has a very fixed way of understanding and doing things and this inflexibility with language is part of that. It has greatly affected his school work, as he struggles to construct sentences and his traditionally trained autism teachers did not understand this as he mitigates huge portions of scripts but if he has to construct his own unique sentence he struggles hugely and cant see how to put the language together. He uses a huge amount of scripted language from his area of interest when he is in a new environment and people dont understand him but that is his only reference point. So yes, gestalt language processors need teachers who are trained in this, can identify it and who understand the huge learning gaps these children have as otherwise they have no chance of interpreting behaviour they present with. My son stopped using pencils and pens at school, they saw this as defiance, they didnt understand that he cant construct his own sentences.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
Thank you for creating this, it was very informative!
I'm glad you found value here! If you're looking for more help, check out MaryBarbera.com/links-yt
Gestalt was a new thing for us our speech and language professional said to me and my partner about it with our son about a year ago and it’s true, our son first started with colours he watches some RUclips videos with cars/balls etc for learning colours and numbers and he started saying these colours, we thought it was amazing, my partner when our son was young noticed some signs of autism but I was the same saying that he’s learning well look at these colours he can say, but at the time he was only saying these colours nothing else 2 years old and saying nothing and he’d say them all blue,black,red,purple it was very odd even when we tried red ball he’d just say red, the same went for numbers counting to 20 and now the abc he can do the whole alphabet but we could not get him to say some what simple words bye hi yes no nothing and we noticed it was only when these videos where on, so it was a great thing to learn about gestalt, as well as echoing as most of these videos are American English so of course he doesn’t know the word fire engine he knows it as fire truck and the echo comes in as he’s starting to say it in an American accent,
I’m so glad our speech professional knew about gestalt and echoing as it’s helped us a lot to understand how to communicate with him still hard as somethings he’s not saying like daddy etc and sometimes if there’s water on the side it’s classed as raining but we are getting there, it is hard but u have to listen to the words it’s not it’s raining it’s just raining it’s not it’s a red ball it’s just red,
It needs to be recognised more as we took our son to a nursery to look around and the manager of it didn’t have a clue what I was on about when we said he’s a gestalt learner
Hello Mary Barbara!
Happy New Year's ! To you and the family. How do we go about requesting this new language process just to see if it works for our own?
It is not at all new, but seeing a resurgence of interest. Look up Natural Language Acquisition by Marge Blanc.
@JXJ Well then, we would have to talk about racism in autism because if you know something, I don't know about these services. They should be provided for all of our kids. Do you know that services are harder to get for kids of color with autism?
Yes. I’m well aware that services are skewed and access to healthcare is racially biased. I was speaking about the body of knowledge which is limited, but not new.
Everything I’ve learned about Natural Language Acquisition and Gestalt Language Processing has been free, by the way, vía FB, websites, articles, You Tube videos and PDFs.
My 17 month old (born a month early) twirls his hands and feet and tenses up while making odd noises.. he laughs at jokes, understand the word “no” , responds sometimes to his name (mostly does not), there was a time where he wasn’t responding then started to consistently now stopped again, he copies some stuff occasionally. I’m so confused.. does it seem like he’s a risk for ASD?
It's a good time to schedule an assessment for ASD at his age, I would say. He may or may not have ASD, but early intervention can be so helpful with kids who need a bit of help with speech issues and the like. Our regional center did a free assessment years ago so you might want to check out that possibility
Take this assessment: marybarbera.com/freeassessment and let us know the 3 scores (self care, language and behavior). We can direct you to resources from there!
Hi , my daughter is 3 and we are on the pathway for autism but recently our speech and language helper suggested this is what my daughter has .
Which would make sense as she does repeat whats on the tele (can say lines from her favourite shows only when they are on and its only now and then)
But my daughter has never said anything in context or in reference to anything, its always just babbling . So im wondering is this the correct path to persue?
Just because she mimicks things and quotes does that mean she has gestalt language development??? As its never ever for anything other than to just say , she has never said anything that is in context to the conversation or what she wants , she will mimick what she has seen but never to communicate . Her only actual communication is physical, if she wants something she will pick it up and bring you to it , or she will grab you by the hand and take you to it , but she will not say anything to prompt it. So im wondering if it is gestalt language development??
Id appreciate feedback as im a dad who just wants to understand his daughter as best he can .
We discussed the same with our BCBA. They were identically dismissive. We decided to stop working with them. Make the shift for your clients sake.
Yes! Attend a free workshop: marybarbera.com/workshop
SLP here and how about no. I'm not choosing an intervention based on case studies from a single therapist that have never been replicated. Babbling about "gestalt language learners" in meetings is a great way to alert your collegues that your ideas for therapy come from social media and not published research.
@@zoesilva9558 Considering you’re an SLP I feel you should have an open mind to new things. Completely dismissing something because it’s “new” just as everything you’re practicing once was is naive. Also, comments like this discourage people from sharing their experiences and finding what works for them. Again, you’re an SLP, so I hope in the future you can find a more constructive way to express your frustration without shooting down a theory that we’re hopeful will help more people in the future.
Very informative thank you very much
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