Update 3 broke the speedometer when using the spindash it will always show it as maxed out even when doing small circles with it that very noticeably lower its speed, this matters because it hides the fact that slope angle does affect its speed, unlike the boost or that thing they claimed was a spindash in Lost World the spindash here loses a bit of speed after the initial launch and is affected by slope angle and just like in SA1 you can keep tapping the button to maintain the initial launch speed. Having dynamic movement options like this and less forced scripting/invisible walls has to be for them going forward.
Uh..lore-wise doesn't make any sense! They are already in cyberspace and I do feel like their movesets though mostly designed to interact with the open-zone itself
For me, the biggest clue that Lost World, Forces and Frontiers all share code is that Sonic still does that stupid running in mid-air thing when you run off a ledge. It looks so dumb I don't get why he does it!!
Frontiers isn't a bad game, but its not a great game either. I think everyone knows that (people call it one of the best 7/10 games ever), but the thing that makes it stand out is that, somehow, it made people care again. It may not have made waves with the things it did right, but the important thing is it DID do things right, and unlike other games where the right things were just few and far between, this time there was a healthy balnce between right and wrong. Unlike say, 06 where the reactions were "They completely screwed this thing up", the reactions to Frontiers were generally, "This could be better, but its not bad". Its sad that we as fans of this franchise have to, as many onlookers put it, "Settle for mediocrity", but Frontiers made JUST enough right calls to give people hope which was massive since Forces made many fans, myself included, nearly or actually give up. One positive thing about Sonic games of old is that when they get it right, they'll usually (at least try to) improve upon the right things in the next game so Frontiers' follow up has people hopeful that the next game actually could be something remarkable. I could point out my own issues with Frontiers, but I'd still say overall, its an enjoyable package.
So for the Supreme fight the creators expected that you knew you where meant to dodge to attack the life supply since you can also do it during the knight fight and also that if you discover all the map the koko master should tell to dodge to attack the life supply
If I'm being completely honest, I wasn't even aware that they added new cyberspace levels until AFTER I beat it.... I literally thought that cylooping was the only way to get the tower cocos.
As someone who enjoyed Frontiers (until the final horizon update) this was an excellent review & I agree with all your suggestions for the next 3D game. Question is, what's next for you?
I have a lot of ideas for 2024. When I have a more solid plan for them I'll definitely post an update on my community tab. Till then though, I can confirm I'll be doing a 2D Sonic marathon sometime soon!
Let me guess the final horizon teared you to shreds due to how hard it was? I mean that's what the fans really asked for..they wanted the game harder so they just decided to do that..I mean I'm not her to defend the final horizon update because I haven't played it yet so I am Not here to defend it so ok?
Very nice review, and I agree with most of the main points here. I knew they added that RB/dodge prompt in the patch for Knight, but I didn't know it showed up when you died to Beast Supreme. Thats very strange.
The spindash has momentum you didn't realize that there's a setting off by default witch allows your boost to transfer to air momentum and the game treats the spindash like the boost
@@spontmanit's almost like the game wasn't designed with that in mind because the game requires precise platforming and they are retro fitting it crazy concept I know just because it's not what you want doesn't mean it's objectively right what's right is what fits for what type of game they are making
@@blinkyy4594The control system doesn’t fit the game well in the first place, Sonic is always sliding off hills and bouncing off rocks in a really jank way
Preserving speed on jumps and being able to do insane stuff with that was one of the fundamental elements of the classic and Adventure games, the way it tossed in the trash for so many years until it was brought back with the jump deceleration setting is a big deal and a step in the right direction
The entire Frontiers retrospective is literally the perfect way to sum up how I feel about this game and what I also would want for the next Sonic game. It’s saddens me how much Sonic has changed and this game was barely for the better. I just want Sonic to feel epic again. Unleashed, SA2 and even Generations feel like an experience with epic set pieces and gameplay. Momentum at this point needs to be priority number 1!
You know that unleashed and gens carried little for momentum ? And that SA2 is similar in design as the boost games Also Gens had the worst story and didn’t felt epic at all
@@clasherinotheone5249 I never mentioned the story of generations I said set pieces and gameplay. To also say it has slight momentum is a silly argument. Literally no one looks at the boost and say this it’s the same as the adventure games. To also claim SA2 is similar to boost is laughable. It’s definitely not at all similar. There is momentum with a spin dash, something boost doesn’t have, and the level design is strictly in 3D. Linear is the only similarity but picking one similar thing doesn’t automatically mean they are the same.
@@ErikLeeTroche I mean SA 2 and the boost games both use linear design and more reaction based gameplay while SA 1 uses more open level structures I think you can very well compare SA2 to the boost games since its also all about holding the speed
@@clasherinotheone5249 it’s literally not though. SA2 isn’t a reaction based game like the boost games are. The boost games reaction is based on seeing obstacles ahead and keeping that speed while also figuring out the best way to complete a level. Only unleashed and generations do that, while colors is more about exploration and forces is a literal straight line. SA2 is linear but the reaction time isn’t about maintaining speed like the boost games, it’s about scoring points based off of using momentum to get short cuts and getting the most out of a difficult scoring system. Even with a more linear design the comparison doesn’t go much deeper than that. I don’t play metal harbor and think I’m playing a game the boost games could do, because frontiers did that and it sucks lol
19:28 - 19.41 I've played "Spyro: Year of the Dragon" a lot since I got it; one of the best games available on the Playstation. I'm speaking as someone who's not a Spyro fan and didn't care for the first two instalments.
1:55 About these challenge modes: they are still worth your time because they unlock two new features. The Cyber Space Challenge unlocks the Power Boost for Cyber Space, and Battle Rush unlocks Extreme difficulty. In Extreme mode, your stats are fixed at Lv. 1, enemies are harder, and if you get hit once, you will die, even if you have rings. S-Ranks for Cyber Space are also *much* tighter than before, on par with 1-2 (the only one that wasn’t changed). Also, Big’s fishing prices are now ten times more pricey, so it’s harder to cheat with him.
Maybe if the islands were a little bit smaller, more concise, and more focused, and had all of the staples of past Sonic level design such as loops, ramps, hillsides, sloped terrain, and corkscrews, among other things, and actually took advantage of good physics and momentum, then I think we would have a banger here.
I'm guessing the input delays with Amy Tails and Knuckles' actions are to make it easier for them to perform their melee attacks and "cy" abilties, since they're mapped to the same buttons as the homing attack and cyloop respectively. Also, wanted to mention that the new cyberspective objectices are actually worth going for, imo. They're less Shadow the Hedgehog and more Sonic Colors, forcing you to you explore more of the levels and engaging with the mechanics in creative ways. Things like second goal rings were especially cool and I hope they carry forward into future entries.
I feel like they could've made those moves work without input delay by having them be context sensitive, but maybe that's easier said than done. My big problem with the collecting (that I probably should've mentioned in the video) was that most if not all of the stages lack checkpoints, so for collectables like the countdown numbers that require you to get them in one go, it becomes very tedious and not worth the effort. Sonic's handling doesn't help at all with this lol
Sonic Frontiers feels the Pokémon Legends Arceus of its own series. Solid game that makes alot of improvements, but I think the praise is a little blown out of proportion because of just how underwhelming, overplayed, or outright bad the previous entry was. And I definitely agree that an open world Sonic game without the colorful world design of something like Generation or Heroes, combined with the complete lack of momentum focused gameplay that made Sonic's most beloved titles, so beloved for a reason, has lead to an experience that come years down the road will probably be looked at with alot less favor. If you ask me, this is yet another Sonic game that will probably only become truly special after modders have gone to town on it, which they're already starting to.
Sonic has never had a momentum based 3D Sonic game. Only 2D ones. Saying this is a down side to Frontiers is forcing it to live up to a false idea that has never existed.
This is the best Sonic Frontiers review I've seen. There is an overabundance of Sonictubers saying this game is Adventure tier which is disappointing and shows how low the fanbase has stooped to call a game "good". I had fun with this game but I am not willing to accept this what 3d Sonic will be moving forward.
This game is already great in my book The pros heavily outweigh the cons. Is great but NOT perfect because of those cons Final horizon got everything what I want in this game. Even with stuff that I hate. It make me realises that sonic team have great idea on what’s coming next
I know this is completely off topic to the video but I'm happy to see Year of the Dragon be praised for how it handled multiple playable characters. A lot of peeps criticize them for making the game too bloated. Anyways yeah this all makes sense to me.
Although I was a little harsh on the base game, I feel like the updates really helped the game feel better overall, I mean, yes, it needs improvement in several aspects, but it was a very fun experience. I loved that Sonic's friends are playable characters and the tower challenges (although stressful the first time) were fun. On the other hand, the final boss, of course, is much better than the final boss of the base game. The only bad thing is that it literally doesn't explain it to you at all, at least at the beginning, because once you finish understanding things, it becomes a very satisfying and rewarding final boss to defeat. I also want to highlight the new cyberspace levels, which although it still bothers me that they continue to reuse the same freaking four stages, they are very good. But speaking of Sonic Frontiers as a whole, I feel that it was a very circumstantial game, in the sense that this game came out at a time when Sonic fans had very low self-esteem (or at least the fans of the 2000s who are the ones who make the most noise in the community), and when they saw that this game showed glimpses of what they WANT, they were attracted to the game. Many Sonic fans claim that the so-called "Meta Era" ended with Sonic Frontiers, but I think that is not entirely true. Sonic Frontiers feels more like a transition game to what will come later in the future, similar to what happened with Sonic Unleashed, which was ironically the game that more or less laid the foundation for the later "Meta Era" games. Frontiers seeks to create new things with the Open Zones, but at the same time it clings to what has already been established with the Boost gameplay, not to mention that they still carry the same problems that we have seen in previous games. So we just have to wait for what the future holds for us. Good video btw
I enjoyed Frontiers... But if you ask me, they're really gonna have to step it up with the next game. One good way I think they can do this is something I and understandably many people would appreciate. Remake the Adventure games. If they're able to remake these games from the ground up while capturing the spirit of the originals as well as adding new stuff and fixing the problems with them, then they could introduce a whole new generation to these classics. However, this also means that they can't fuck it up either. Considering these are well respected games that many enjoyed growing up and still enjoy to this day, there is so much on the line. But that's still a good first step. This would be the most ambitious project that Sonic Team has had in years and if it pays off then they could potentially redeem themselves. Even if this never happens though... We can still dream... See what I did there?
I sense that Morio Kishimoto attempted to rectify the issues Forces added to the series without any real reference and/or the constant engagement with fans and the 3 updates are merely a test to see what people like so they can be polished for the next game. Frontiers is more like a demo disguised as a full game. I was still able enjoy Frontiers though. I'd like to ask, if you were the director of next Sonic game, how would you approach aspects such as story, gameplay, and style?
I do hate when a series is ashamed of its own identity. Sonic being open world could’ve been amazing if they had made it speedrun and exploration focused instead of combat and bland “puzzle” focused. That combined with the tower climbs really make it feel like it was chasing Breath of the Wild with maybe 1% of the depth.
Fun fact: Knuckles has rolling physics in frontiers. But it's not complete. This is because Kishimoto asked the lead programmer of frontiers about adding roiling physics into the game like mods. But then back out from it as it was to risky to change sonic base physics in a already complete game. So knuckles has a more further along version of rolling then the other characters and it was left in there by sonic team.
@@spontman Same lol. We talk to him on Linkedin a lot because he's not allowed to do anything bit like tweets on Twitter now. He's still been able to look at our feedback and use it as inspiration for the next game tho.
19:49 Honestly, I don’t think this is entirely needed. The Sonic series has such a wide range of inconsistent elements that I don’t mind Sonic stories just being serious. Don’t ignore the weird out of place stuff, try to embrace them for them to fit in a wider collective franchise. Sonic is already inconsistent enough and trying to avoid the inconsistencies entirely is only going to lose some potential the franchise has gained. Black Doom wouldn’t have been in Shadow Gens if the series was more consistent. But I recognized this point is about the weird serious tone not fitting Sonic, especially that it was never in the series before. And I personally don’t mind if the story became more lighthearted because again most Sonic stories are usually more lighthearted. But I wouldn’t mind if a more serious story was attempted again for this series if it was done well. Which it wasn’t in Frontiers as most of the time it was unneeded. So yeah, the first half of my comment is pretty pointless here now thinking about it.
For wut it's worth, I do think Frontiers does retain a lot of Sonic's core appeal. It's obviously isn't the exact same, & Sonic Team didn't need to go full on open world after Forces, but I think they translated Sonic's gameplay appeal to open world really well. I found that there were plenty of ways to cut corners when it came to ur progression (not through the fishing minigame). There were often times where I could use boost jumps to skip chunks of platforming, or just get to my destination faster. Very similar to Sonic Adventure in that regard. Finding shortcuts within the level design is obviously key to replayability in Sonic, Frontiers has this through wut I just said. There's also another mechanic regarding platforming where u can chain together platforming segments instead of doing them individually. I find this to be really fun since to requires players to think on their toes, analyazing the level design quickly & make a decision on the spot (i.e. airboost, stomp). In turn, it allows players to collect things faster, since u can just do all these segments at once. The act of chaining these sections back to back is also really fun idk how else to describe it. So I do think Frontiers does have Sonic's core gameplay appeal handled well, add in an open world that supports physics more, puzzles that encourage more fast-paced platforming, & actually good cyberspace stuff & there's a great video game ready.
The intended way of figuring out the final boss was maxing out the update to get advice from the elder koco. I was actually going to do that just to it the "right way" and completely filled out the island, but the cyberspace missions turned me off from it and I just decided to look up the way to beat the final boss. I originally beat the Master Koco trial in the initial release on normal mode with the intent to come back at some point and try it on hard mode, but apparently it's a lot easier now. That's good for design, but I am a little disappointed I won't be able to try the initial hard mode.
3:52 What the heck is the second comment talking about with the jumping in Forces being better than any prior Sonic game? The ground controls in Forces aren’t as slippery as Gens at least. (I think I’m remembering correctly)
I feel like Frontiers is gonna get the Colors/Adventure game treatment in a few years. It's gonna be praised at launch and a few years later a lot of people are gonna call it mid.
I mean, this happens with most critically acclaimed games. I remember when Mario Odyssey started getting hate after the hype settled down (I still think it's a fantastic game).
The updates really helped the game feel better overall, but a lot of things still need to be fixed. I'm baffled that nobody in Sonic Team today seem to understand the fundamentals of good game design and it showed in the updates, they had something going for them and didn't make it the highest priority of the updates, the physics are and will remain fundamentally broken and the environments are simply unoriginal, it's likt they learned all the wrong lessons. I hope they do a lot better for the next game, they have a lot of good templates to follow, yet they follow the bad ones.
I know this isn't relevant to the video, but you missed some VS episodes. Mario 3D Land VS Sonic Generations, 3D World VS Lost World, Odyssey VS Forces, and Adventure DX VS 64 DS. Also, are you gonna do a 3D Mario marathon? I was gonna do that on my retrospective channel that is (hopefully) gonna start soon. Anyway, have you heard about the rumored Sonic and Shadow game that's coming out next year? Or the stuff about the follow up to Frontiers being an Adventure game? Also, great video.
Yes, I will do a 3D Mario marathon eventually. That's also part of why I stopped doing VS, since I can better express my thoughts on those games in a longer format.
14:18 This boss rush was really hated because it wasn’t designed with perfect Parrying in mind. As a lot of the time, you can only parry on very inconsistent parts of the bosses’ attacks. Like right before the hit, right after the hit, way before the hit, way after the hit, or right when you get hit. The Wyvern was the worst part as failing a parry would force you to wait a long time until given another chance to hurt the boss. This was soooo frustrating that I gave up on the game for two months until it was updated. But it was so bad that it really ruined my enjoyment of the game, so the final boss was made even worse with its terrible design. So it caused me to just not play the game again for another 2 months.
THANK YOU! I agree completely with you. I don't think Frontiers was a step in the right direction but it was an okay game, the updates made it better but still. I through i do have a different idea of how to make an open world game of Sonic work... Just make multiple levels, that are connected to a central hub world initially the player doesn't need to cross them combine, but it's possible, and there is level design. And through the late middle to late game, it's necessary for the player to play through this combine level design. I think it could be a great idea, because it could allow the developers to make base gimmicks for the players to get to know first and then later on combine them in, interesting ways, allowing for super creative level design. That's at less how i see it. Instead of making small Action stage make 4 or 5 big ones and allow them to combine in different ways, upping the levels of creativity, but i don't maybe im too ambitious
Fun fact: For 100% completing the game right after you beat the final boss after SOMEHOW figuring it out with no hint or tip... The game tells you exactly how to beat said final boss you JUST BEATED. BUT DON'T WORRY GUYS, THIS GAME IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!!!!!!!
The whole point of adding Big was that, in case you don't like a certain part of the game, you don't have to do it. Why force players who don't like fighting enemies into combat? You could make the argument that "if it's not fun then improve it so it WILL be fun". That's not the point. Some people aren't coming into a Sonic game for the combat. Even if you improve it, they'll complain. Big gives them the option to skip what they don't like. Was the fishing OP? Perhaps. However, because it was boring, you are discouraged from playing it for long periods of time and instead play the main content of the game. The game gives you the option to do only the stuff you like. Improving the combat to be more fun isn't a good enough solution.
Maybe the game shouldn't have had combat then? Either way the fishing trivializes a lot more than just the combat, and my main criticism was that it rendered the Cyberspace stages pretty much unnecessary
@@spontman But that's the thing. If there's a part of the game you don't like you can skip it. Improving the gameplay is great, but not enough for some. As someone who enjoys everything in the game (memory token platforming challenges, map missions, combat and cyberspace), I don't use fishing. I don't want to skip stuff I like. I love the variety of activities in this game, and the combat adds to the variety. Removing the combat will make things less enjoyable for me. I know it has issues that I want to be fixed for the next game, but even as is I enjoy fighting enemies and guardians. You could make the argument "a player shouldn't limit himself to make the game more fun". Well I don't have to raise an RPG's difficulty to the hardest level to be challenging and fun, but the option is there. I don't have to explore the entirety of BotW or TotK to beat the game, but I want to because I might miss up on a Divine Beast/Shrine/Temple I would've enjoyed. On the opposite end, if there's an activity I don't like, I can skip it. Just pretend like Big doesn't exist. Even in The Final Horizon I collected all the lookout kocos I needed for progression via exploration, and yet I did the cyberspace stages anyway because they were very fun, and that includes finding collectables, which I have no idea why you didn't enjoy them. Sonic shouldn't always go fast. Exploration and occasional slow platforming is still a part of his identity. Reaching the end of the stage is too easy (especially with the spin dash) so the devs wanted you to do exploration to make these lookout kocos more worthwhile. You can still get some lookout kocos via finishing the stage, but that requires beating hologram Tails, finding a hidden goal and not getting hit by mines. You only need 20 lookout kocos to unlock all the 5 towers so I'm sure you'll find the missions that don't bother you, especially considering many of the collectables are on the path so you don't have to look so hard for them. Is it really too bad to let the player choose the game's difficulty or what activities he needs to participate in to progress? I like Big for allowing players to bypass activities they aren't interested in.
@@spontman Much like BotW and TotK! And fishing isn't THAT good. Players are barely able to cheese Ouranos with the few purple coins they find on the ground. You can even disable starfall events if you think they give you too many coins for fishing.
I think for me, the reason why Frontiers stands out compared to the previous games in the "meta era", is because it's actually ambitious and makes you feel something again. Sure a lot of the elements of the series that are appealing are still missing, but I'd much rather have those things sacrificed for a game with ambition and heart, rather than a mediocre boring game that does nothing new and takes the same premise as previous ges and just does it worst than the first attempt every time. It's the same reason people have come around on 06 and now say it's one of the best games in the series, same with Unleashed. The series is at its best when it's really trying something bold and cool, even if it may not be the most polished, but seeing people long for the Adventure days and "Dark Ages" style of Sonic again helped me come to that realization.
I know update 3 got a patch 1.41 to fix some of the problems update 3 had but for some reason I was never able to get this update it came about 4 weeks ago and It still won't show up for me in the updates tab its a shame.
after dream team i find it crazy how i enjoyed the mobile game more than the console game... i love frontiers to death but it has way too many frustrating and unforgivably bad parts wheras dream team is basic but just fun, quality content overall with no annoying parts
As someone who has played the game for four days straight after buying it for Christmas(Christmas Break gives too much free time) I agree with the retrospect that you gave, especially the pin ball physics(that is, in tandem with good level design, key to an amazing Sonic game). It doesn’t stop the game from being fun(except some cyberspace levels the physics tend to screw me over). I love the freedom of expression that it gives, but it can be improved upon with the points you made. Are you gonna talk about how to improve combat? I have my own ideas but I want to hear yours as well.
If they keep going with the combat they have, I think my suggestions in part 1 would be enough, but I'd also like if XP was exclusive (or at least most heavily rewarded) for defeating enemies. And of course a more expansive skill tree.
heyo! "feels nothing like forces" commenter guy here, apologies if my comment sounded silly, didn't intend to come off whiny or anything like that personally in my experience, sonic feels better to control, even if some fundamental things stayed over from forces, ive felt he controls much better, and he does gain momentum from rail launching in forces if you complete cyberspace challenge which unlocks you the cyber space power boost! i appreciate you at the end saying that if someone genuinely likes the game, that's great and that the takeaway shouldn't be "you shouldn't like the game", as i feel many youtubers tend to take potshots at fans for enjoying it and attempt to make them feel bad, which sucks because i really do enjoy the game, in spite of all of its flaws ive found comfort moving around in the islands, or replaying the game just to re-experience everything, or even resetting my records in arcade mode to replay the levels and play it all over again, its kind of a comfort game to me in the sense that it gives me a feeling of the wild sensation a sonic game could give you, regardless of its lack of momentum and quality- it's not a perfect game, and i totally acknowledge that, but man id be lying if i said the game didnt make me feel so calm and happy i dont like frontiers because i dont want another forces, i like frontiers because despite its shortcomings, its a game that keeps me invested enough to continuously play whenever im in the mood to play it
@@Terminal_Apotos my message isnt even intended to be aggressive or mean towards spontman where did this reply of touching grass come from😭 all i said is its nice when fans arent tearing each other down, regardless if i shouldn't care what they say or not, its the thought that counts
@@midorifox That's still just recycling old characters designs that are less noteworthy, into something that could be cool, but if you're gonna make something cool, you might as well keep it from being stale and introduce a new staple character that they actually put some thought into, rather than putting thought retroactively into characters people don't really know or care about smh. imo. tbh. lol.
@@-oldhope- introduce a new character and then forget about it like any other. Seen Silver or Blaze in recent games that isn't Forces? Yeah, me neither. Sonic team has a catalogue of abandoned characters that could fill a book or two
Bro sonic frontiers final battle base game is a horrid horrid horrid abomination that nearly killed this game for me the new super sonic final boss reddemed this game in my eyes and i shed a year at that final boss for how epic it is and how absolutley amazing the music was. It gives me goosebumps every time i wont lie
SA1 movement is not perfect. Take deceleration for example, in Classic games Sonic would just lose some of his speed but you can stop decelerating at any point you want and that gives the player a lot of control over Sonic and his speed. In SA1, by holding the left stick in the opposite direction Sonic is moving makes him enter the skidding state where he will lose all his speed gradually until he comes to a complete. You can only cancel that state by jumping or spindashing which are not good ways of maintaing speed thanks to the jump's aggressive air drag and how spindash changes Sonic's speed when you release it.
@@spontman I still wouldn't agree but I respect your opinion. I love SA1 but Sonic Team would be better off following the game design of Classic Sonic games while also applying common sense 3D game design to it (if they are making a new character controller for their next Sonic game)
Ok, so we aren’t gonna be glad that Sonic Team gave us three (technically 4) FREE updates that fixed and improved Frontiers and made it even better than it already is.
I don't get why going back to the way sonic adventure handled different characters is a good idea. The classic games from S3&K onwards follow the castlevania 3 logic of having One gameplay but different way to experience it, so the player tries different chsllenges and increase the replay value, which is the logic that frontiers follows. But adventure gave each characters a different gameplay of varing quality that nobody asked for no reason: everyone wants the speed base platform of the main sonic style so why wasting dev time and resources on cramming a bunch of different type of games when there should be just one type? It makes the package inconsistent so why suggesting to bring it back?
Hence why I said "don't stray from the core platforming concept" and suggested Year of the Dragon as reference. I'm not asking for another Big the Cat here.
Idk if u know this but in the master koco trial they teach u how to switch targets in the Knight fight there's a prompt if u sucessfully target his head instead of the Blade which u are forced to ride on if u hit it enough but im amusing u didnt know how to do that and thats why it showed up in the end's new fight after u died
The prompt showed up in the Knight boss but not in The End until I died. Is the hint showing up supposed to be contingent on whether you do something in a previous boss? If so then that's even worse than I thought.
@@spontman I think it shows up if u sucessfully dodge his shield and change the target so you avoid doing the part where Super sonic rides on his shield into him to damage him
Im confused so the new supreme fight during the beginning and when ever he regens health the top right a thing thats been there since day 1 that taught you if u need help push said button and you didnt see that during 999 seconds and when you watched a youtube video for help. Or when compiling footage also sonic team is small and you cant say people have confirmation bias is why we like it then say if you like it thats ok. You invalidated that statement in your last sentence
The only thing I'll say is ur mention of referencin Adventure as a game that "translates classic sonic's fundamentals brilliantly into 3D" is factually incorrect as adventure is a VERY failed attempt at that & they jus gave up wit 2.Technically speakin both heroes & Shadow actually do a more accurate job at it than ppl give em credit for. That's all
"You're wrong because you're wrong" is not an argument. Tell me WHY and HOW Adventure is a failed attempt. Tell me WHY and HOW Heroes and Shadow succeed where Adventure doesn't. And I mean that sincerely; I love hearing other people's perspectives.
@@spontman Stuff like air drag, the way they fly off ramps, how they turn in 3D, the spindash spam, obv they're philosophy on level design structure(admittedly this one mostly only pertains to heroes). ST at the time stated heroes was made to be a lot closer to the classics than adv was even though it utilized the same template adv started & shadow which was obv usin things ripped straight from heroes did similar in terms of control jus by tweakin things to fit a more single character focus of play since no teams. At the end of it all none of these truly provide that slope/pin-ball physic gameplay from the classics so if that's wut u want then pretty much none of these should be looked to for truly SONIC gameplay. If u want Adv gameplay say adv or rather describe the type of gameplay experience that style provides in as most accurate a way as possible, if u want boost say boost or more precision based gameplay. However if u wish for true SONIC gameplay as the classics defined it then u really can only start from scratch. ppl who say adv is the same really haven't played the classics to me. Actually the funny thing I jus remembered is unleashed actually gets really close to that "ideal" however due to it bein boost all that potential is overridden lol. So if anythin maybe they could try to copy that without the boost for OZ but for numerous reasons I C a fat chance of that lol
I recommend watching this first impression video about Sonic Frontiers more about this game and all of its flaws 👇 ruclips.net/video/V3l1efGjYJU/видео.htmlsi=-NRGd0B0gCDcsjU6 Then this 4hr stream to get really in depth with this game 👇 ruclips.net/video/h59ysRVbY34/видео.htmlsi=plnoyFI0AILhkDS_ Also these two long playthrough videos for final horizons 👇 Friends: ruclips.net/video/GDHp5UH4N7k/видео.htmlsi=d26n4A9FIkE-1W15 Bosses: ruclips.net/video/zcxWtB8b-dY/видео.htmlsi=pXHxdL65EFWDb98X And this cyber space one if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/9RUFUQL4VDg/видео.htmlsi=AkIaDpuOoVXRJcsq
Frontiers was NOT broken to begin with. It was already amazing, now its just 10000× better. We should thank Sega and sonic team for their dedication and hard work!
I disagree on the notion that cyberspace shouldn't be omitted progression wise on The Final Horizon, I didn't enjoy the levels (and doing them for the Lookout Koco feels more of a chore than the main game) and I take more enjoyment out of them if I don't have to worry about the damn collectables, the moon medals can go to hell and so can cyberspace Tails.
15:16 well atleast i know what to do now..lol tye fact they didn't give any direction of what to do is bad...i haven't played the final horizon yet but now i knoe what to do now it would be more enjoyable for me the finao boss but..i must survive the final horizon first oh boy..
I recall you liking the game initially, so while I am surprised about your opinion swapping, I can understand it. Like Adventure, it was hyped up to be something different than the previous titles while claiming to stay true to the original formulas. Whether or not their claims are true, they did offer a new and unique experience. I agree with how fundamentally flawed the game is (honestly I saw it coming from just the teasers), I will give the situation this; a fresh experience is often depicted as something better, regardless of its form. For instance, music remixes: When one stumbles upon a remix of a song they are super familiar with, they gravitate towards the remix as really good, even when the remix is bad when you analyze it. The subconcious reasoning is really just experiencing something new with something you are familiar with, almost like a jamais vu with a hint of nostalgia. This might have been the case with Frontiers advertised as a "Sonic remix," and a Sonic remix we received. Debate is up for the quality of the remix, but I say everyone really liked the game initially solely because it was a new "mix" of the Sonic game formula.
It's so weird that it took them this long to make Sonic 3rd. It's a weird transition because there's only ever been 2d Sonic games before this, and, I'll say it; this is a rough transition into 3d for Sonic. :/
I just played Forces this month and with how much fun I am having collecting Moon medals which appear in levels after you collect all the red star rings I can't help but feel like anyone who says Frontiers is better is an insane person.
I WONDER IF NIGHTS IS GETTING HIS SECOND GAME CALLED NIGHTS INTO DREAMS 2 SOON CAUSE NIGHTS HASN'T GOT A SECOND GAME IN A VERY VERY VERY VERY LONG TIME AND I'M STARTING TO BE CONCERN SO I THINK IT'S TIME FOR NIGHTS TO GET A SECOND GAME CALLED NIGHTS INTO DREAMS 2 AM I RIGHT AND BY THE WAY JULIO AND I ARE BEST FRIENDS AND WE NEVER SPLIT UP OUR FRIENDSHIP LIKE ELMO AND ZOE HAD IN SASAME STREET RIGHT
I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously when you're clearly playing on easy. You say you enjoy the towers, but they're not even remotely challenging or engaging on easy. All you have to do is homing attack balloons and springs. The final trial is also stupidly easy as well if you're not on hard. Before the patch, hard mode was a few frames, while easy was a few seconds. But after the patch, they made it basically forever, and hard mode was made quite a bit longer, which is good, but why say it sounds interesting when you're still gonna play on easy? You did realise easy mode makes things easier, right?
I switched to Easy because by this point I was sick of base Frontiers, which I played on Hard, and I just wanted to get through the DLC as quickly as possible. Not sure the condescending tone is necessary, especially when you're seeming to imply that my enjoyment/disappointment with any particular part was invalid just because I didn't play it the same way you did. If they didn't want people to play on Easy then they wouldn't have it in the game.
@@spontman That was rude, I'm sorry. I should've just explained about easy mode in a better way than that. I honestly didn't think you'd see it since the video was 9 months ago, but I do apologise. You talked about the parry, like it was no longer difficult, so I assumed you didn't know that easy mode did make it and the towers trivial at best. If you liked the rhea towers you should honestly give the new ones a try not on easy mode if you actually didn't, and possibly the last trial, because personally it is enjoyable to time it correctly on hard mode.
So all I get from watching your videos is whining and complaining when rarely anyone complains about what you do because most people are actually enjoying the game, every game has flaws but people actually have more fun with Frontiers than don’t
@@spontman Complaining is not critiquing, I can listen to people critique the game as long as they bring up good points and actually have reason, your reasons make less and less sense as it goes on
16:23 I never expected you would swear here it’s sad I actually thought you were better than that, however you should know it’s inappropriate and disgustingly foolish to the point that if you’re going to swear more times…
I think what makes this game so beloved despite its glaring issues is that it actually seems to have a soul for the first time in so many years
The explanation of movement code and both Havok and Bullet got you a subscription. Good stuff
Update 3 broke the speedometer when using the spindash it will always show it as maxed out even when doing small circles with it that very noticeably lower its speed, this matters because it hides the fact that slope angle does affect its speed, unlike the boost or that thing they claimed was a spindash in Lost World the spindash here loses a bit of speed after the initial launch and is affected by slope angle and just like in SA1 you can keep tapping the button to maintain the initial launch speed. Having dynamic movement options like this and less forced scripting/invisible walls has to be for them going forward.
Not having cyberspace levels for Tails, Knuckles, and Amy is a HUGE missed opportunity!
Enormous
Uh..lore-wise doesn't make any sense! They are already in cyberspace and I do feel like their movesets though mostly designed to interact with the open-zone itself
For me, the biggest clue that Lost World, Forces and Frontiers all share code is that Sonic still does that stupid running in mid-air thing when you run off a ledge. It looks so dumb I don't get why he does it!!
He even still makes footstep sounds in the air LOL
I mean frontiers reuses a lot of assets from gens to forces so I'm not really that surprised
He did the same thing in the classic games. I think Kishimoto has stated that's on purpose for that reason. I could be remembering wrong, though.
@@magical_pixie_horse7346 well whatever the reason, Shadow doesn't do it in the new game so they clearly realized that it looked goofy as hell
@@MatrixEvolution17 Shadow?
I almost cried after listening to what you want next for Sonic. Hell yeah dude
Frontiers isn't a bad game, but its not a great game either. I think everyone knows that (people call it one of the best 7/10 games ever), but the thing that makes it stand out is that, somehow, it made people care again. It may not have made waves with the things it did right, but the important thing is it DID do things right, and unlike other games where the right things were just few and far between, this time there was a healthy balnce between right and wrong.
Unlike say, 06 where the reactions were "They completely screwed this thing up", the reactions to Frontiers were generally, "This could be better, but its not bad". Its sad that we as fans of this franchise have to, as many onlookers put it, "Settle for mediocrity", but Frontiers made JUST enough right calls to give people hope which was massive since Forces made many fans, myself included, nearly or actually give up.
One positive thing about Sonic games of old is that when they get it right, they'll usually (at least try to) improve upon the right things in the next game so Frontiers' follow up has people hopeful that the next game actually could be something remarkable.
I could point out my own issues with Frontiers, but I'd still say overall, its an enjoyable package.
So for the Supreme fight the creators expected that you knew you where meant to dodge to attack the life supply since you can also do it during the knight fight and also that if you discover all the map the koko master should tell to dodge to attack the life supply
He only tells you that once you've fully leveled up Tails Amy and knuckles and have beaten all mini bosses and cleared the map
If I'm being completely honest, I wasn't even aware that they added new cyberspace levels until AFTER I beat it.... I literally thought that cylooping was the only way to get the tower cocos.
I love Cyberspace!
As someone who enjoyed Frontiers (until the final horizon update) this was an excellent review & I agree with all your suggestions for the next 3D game.
Question is, what's next for you?
I have a lot of ideas for 2024. When I have a more solid plan for them I'll definitely post an update on my community tab. Till then though, I can confirm I'll be doing a 2D Sonic marathon sometime soon!
@@spontman cool
In-depth wishlist for future games…. R u listening SEGA?
Let me guess the final horizon teared you to shreds due to how hard it was? I mean that's what the fans really asked for..they wanted the game harder so they just decided to do that..I mean I'm not her to defend the final horizon update because I haven't played it yet so I am Not here to defend it so ok?
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x wtf are you saying?
Very nice review, and I agree with most of the main points here. I knew they added that RB/dodge prompt in the patch for Knight, but I didn't know it showed up when you died to Beast Supreme. Thats very strange.
16:05
The sharp teeth and rings in the eyes of Cyber Sonic is confirmed to be a referenced to Fleetway Super Sonic by Ian Flynn.
You could asked a modder and they would of flat out confirmed that the code is same from Forces
im shy
The spindash has momentum you didn't realize that there's a setting off by default witch allows your boost to transfer to air momentum and the game treats the spindash like the boost
I had that on. Speed carrying over from ramps does not equal full-on pinball physics.
@@spontmanit's almost like the game wasn't designed with that in mind because the game requires precise platforming and they are retro fitting it crazy concept I know just because it's not what you want doesn't mean it's objectively right what's right is what fits for what type of game they are making
@@blinkyy4594The control system doesn’t fit the game well in the first place, Sonic is always sliding off hills and bouncing off rocks in a really jank way
Spindash isn’t affected by that setting it will always maintain its speed into the air even with that setting at max as long as the button is held
Preserving speed on jumps and being able to do insane stuff with that was one of the fundamental elements of the classic and Adventure games, the way it tossed in the trash for so many years until it was brought back with the jump deceleration setting is a big deal and a step in the right direction
The entire Frontiers retrospective is literally the perfect way to sum up how I feel about this game and what I also would want for the next Sonic game. It’s saddens me how much Sonic has changed and this game was barely for the better. I just want Sonic to feel epic again. Unleashed, SA2 and even Generations feel like an experience with epic set pieces and gameplay. Momentum at this point needs to be priority number 1!
You know that unleashed and gens carried little for momentum ?
And that SA2 is similar in design as the boost games
Also Gens had the worst story and didn’t felt epic at all
@@clasherinotheone5249 I never mentioned the story of generations I said set pieces and gameplay. To also say it has slight momentum is a silly argument. Literally no one looks at the boost and say this it’s the same as the adventure games. To also claim SA2 is similar to boost is laughable. It’s definitely not at all similar. There is momentum with a spin dash, something boost doesn’t have, and the level design is strictly in 3D. Linear is the only similarity but picking one similar thing doesn’t automatically mean they are the same.
@@ErikLeeTroche I mean SA 2 and the boost games both use linear design and more reaction based gameplay while SA 1 uses more open level structures
I think you can very well compare SA2 to the boost games since its also all about holding the speed
@@clasherinotheone5249 it’s literally not though. SA2 isn’t a reaction based game like the boost games are. The boost games reaction is based on seeing obstacles ahead and keeping that speed while also figuring out the best way to complete a level. Only unleashed and generations do that, while colors is more about exploration and forces is a literal straight line. SA2 is linear but the reaction time isn’t about maintaining speed like the boost games, it’s about scoring points based off of using momentum to get short cuts and getting the most out of a difficult scoring system. Even with a more linear design the comparison doesn’t go much deeper than that. I don’t play metal harbor and think I’m playing a game the boost games could do, because frontiers did that and it sucks lol
@@ErikLeeTroche it sucks really that you can actually control the board in frontiers true
Nah Green forest for example is like a boost level
19:28 - 19.41
I've played "Spyro: Year of the Dragon" a lot since I got it; one of the best games available on the Playstation. I'm speaking as someone who's not a Spyro fan and didn't care for the first two instalments.
watched this video for a blue guy review and came out understanding how/what physics codes/engines are
1:55 About these challenge modes: they are still worth your time because they unlock two new features. The Cyber Space Challenge unlocks the Power Boost for Cyber Space, and Battle Rush unlocks Extreme difficulty. In Extreme mode, your stats are fixed at Lv. 1, enemies are harder, and if you get hit once, you will die, even if you have rings. S-Ranks for Cyber Space are also *much* tighter than before, on par with 1-2 (the only one that wasn’t changed). Also, Big’s fishing prices are now ten times more pricey, so it’s harder to cheat with him.
Maybe if the islands were a little bit smaller, more concise, and more focused, and had all of the staples of past Sonic level design such as loops, ramps, hillsides, sloped terrain, and corkscrews, among other things, and actually took advantage of good physics and momentum, then I think we would have a banger here.
This is very much what I'd like to see in the next game!
I'm guessing the input delays with Amy Tails and Knuckles' actions are to make it easier for them to perform their melee attacks and "cy" abilties, since they're mapped to the same buttons as the homing attack and cyloop respectively.
Also, wanted to mention that the new cyberspective objectices are actually worth going for, imo. They're less Shadow the Hedgehog and more Sonic Colors, forcing you to you explore more of the levels and engaging with the mechanics in creative ways. Things like second goal rings were especially cool and I hope they carry forward into future entries.
I feel like they could've made those moves work without input delay by having them be context sensitive, but maybe that's easier said than done.
My big problem with the collecting (that I probably should've mentioned in the video) was that most if not all of the stages lack checkpoints, so for collectables like the countdown numbers that require you to get them in one go, it becomes very tedious and not worth the effort. Sonic's handling doesn't help at all with this lol
@@spontman sonic team really replied to those "The game is too easy" comments and went balling
@@minetfq739then it seemed like they realized they went too far and dialed it back
Correct. Apparently only me and you are capable of grasping this extremely easy concept.
Sonic Frontiers feels the Pokémon Legends Arceus of its own series. Solid game that makes alot of improvements, but I think the praise is a little blown out of proportion because of just how underwhelming, overplayed, or outright bad the previous entry was. And I definitely agree that an open world Sonic game without the colorful world design of something like Generation or Heroes, combined with the complete lack of momentum focused gameplay that made Sonic's most beloved titles, so beloved for a reason, has lead to an experience that come years down the road will probably be looked at with alot less favor.
If you ask me, this is yet another Sonic game that will probably only become truly special after modders have gone to town on it, which they're already starting to.
personally i like the game just because i like the game, not because previous games weren't up to snuff
Sonic has never had a momentum based 3D Sonic game. Only 2D ones.
Saying this is a down side to Frontiers is forcing it to live up to a false idea that has never existed.
@@kaobunnyeah this is honestly true.
This is the best Sonic Frontiers review I've seen. There is an overabundance of Sonictubers saying this game is Adventure tier which is disappointing and shows how low the fanbase has stooped to call a game "good". I had fun with this game but I am not willing to accept this what 3d Sonic will be moving forward.
i think the game is good 😎
Or-OR. A lot of ppl just simply enjoy the game
This game is already great in my book
The pros heavily outweigh the cons. Is great but NOT perfect because of those cons
Final horizon got everything what I want in this game. Even with stuff that I hate. It make me realises that sonic team have great idea on what’s coming next
I know this is completely off topic to the video but I'm happy to see Year of the Dragon be praised for how it handled multiple playable characters. A lot of peeps criticize them for making the game too bloated.
Anyways yeah this all makes sense to me.
For me l agreed that frontiers has his flaws but is a very solid game in next entries we will have progress
Although I was a little harsh on the base game, I feel like the updates really helped the game feel better overall, I mean, yes, it needs improvement in several aspects, but it was a very fun experience. I loved that Sonic's friends are playable characters and the tower challenges (although stressful the first time) were fun. On the other hand, the final boss, of course, is much better than the final boss of the base game. The only bad thing is that it literally doesn't explain it to you at all, at least at the beginning, because once you finish understanding things, it becomes a very satisfying and rewarding final boss to defeat. I also want to highlight the new cyberspace levels, which although it still bothers me that they continue to reuse the same freaking four stages, they are very good.
But speaking of Sonic Frontiers as a whole, I feel that it was a very circumstantial game, in the sense that this game came out at a time when Sonic fans had very low self-esteem (or at least the fans of the 2000s who are the ones who make the most noise in the community), and when they saw that this game showed glimpses of what they WANT, they were attracted to the game. Many Sonic fans claim that the so-called "Meta Era" ended with Sonic Frontiers, but I think that is not entirely true. Sonic Frontiers feels more like a transition game to what will come later in the future, similar to what happened with Sonic Unleashed, which was ironically the game that more or less laid the foundation for the later "Meta Era" games. Frontiers seeks to create new things with the Open Zones, but at the same time it clings to what has already been established with the Boost gameplay, not to mention that they still carry the same problems that we have seen in previous games. So we just have to wait for what the future holds for us.
Good video btw
I enjoyed Frontiers... But if you ask me, they're really gonna have to step it up with the next game. One good way I think they can do this is something I and understandably many people would appreciate. Remake the Adventure games. If they're able to remake these games from the ground up while capturing the spirit of the originals as well as adding new stuff and fixing the problems with them, then they could introduce a whole new generation to these classics.
However, this also means that they can't fuck it up either. Considering these are well respected games that many enjoyed growing up and still enjoy to this day, there is so much on the line. But that's still a good first step. This would be the most ambitious project that Sonic Team has had in years and if it pays off then they could potentially redeem themselves.
Even if this never happens though... We can still dream... See what I did there?
I just hope this dream isn't CAST aside, heh, heh... kill me
I sense that Morio Kishimoto attempted to rectify the issues Forces added to the series without any real reference and/or the constant engagement with fans and the 3 updates are merely a test to see what people like so they can be polished for the next game. Frontiers is more like a demo disguised as a full game.
I was still able enjoy Frontiers though.
I'd like to ask, if you were the director of next Sonic game, how would you approach aspects such as story, gameplay, and style?
I do hate when a series is ashamed of its own identity. Sonic being open world could’ve been amazing if they had made it speedrun and exploration focused instead of combat and bland “puzzle” focused. That combined with the tower climbs really make it feel like it was chasing Breath of the Wild with maybe 1% of the depth.
Fun fact: Knuckles has rolling physics in frontiers. But it's not complete. This is because Kishimoto asked the lead programmer of frontiers about adding roiling physics into the game like mods. But then back out from it as it was to risky to change sonic base physics in a already complete game. So knuckles has a more further along version of rolling then the other characters and it was left in there by sonic team.
That's interesting, and gives me a little more hope for the next game. I love that Kishimoto is paying attention to feedback.
@@spontman Same lol. We talk to him on Linkedin a lot because he's not allowed to do anything bit like tweets on Twitter now. He's still been able to look at our feedback and use it as inspiration for the next game tho.
When did he say this at all?
@@Cosmiccakecat i privately message him on LinkedIn
19:49
Honestly, I don’t think this is entirely needed. The Sonic series has such a wide range of inconsistent elements that I don’t mind Sonic stories just being serious. Don’t ignore the weird out of place stuff, try to embrace them for them to fit in a wider collective franchise. Sonic is already inconsistent enough and trying to avoid the inconsistencies entirely is only going to lose some potential the franchise has gained. Black Doom wouldn’t have been in Shadow Gens if the series was more consistent.
But I recognized this point is about the weird serious tone not fitting Sonic, especially that it was never in the series before. And I personally don’t mind if the story became more lighthearted because again most Sonic stories are usually more lighthearted. But I wouldn’t mind if a more serious story was attempted again for this series if it was done well. Which it wasn’t in Frontiers as most of the time it was unneeded.
So yeah, the first half of my comment is pretty pointless here now thinking about it.
20:35 MY. JAW. DROPPED.
This was the most crazy and creative writing I’ve ever heard from a youtuber
For wut it's worth, I do think Frontiers does retain a lot of Sonic's core appeal. It's obviously isn't the exact same, & Sonic Team didn't need to go full on open world after Forces, but I think they translated Sonic's gameplay appeal to open world really well. I found that there were plenty of ways to cut corners when it came to ur progression (not through the fishing minigame). There were often times where I could use boost jumps to skip chunks of platforming, or just get to my destination faster. Very similar to Sonic Adventure in that regard. Finding shortcuts within the level design is obviously key to replayability in Sonic, Frontiers has this through wut I just said. There's also another mechanic regarding platforming where u can chain together platforming segments instead of doing them individually. I find this to be really fun since to requires players to think on their toes, analyazing the level design quickly & make a decision on the spot (i.e. airboost, stomp). In turn, it allows players to collect things faster, since u can just do all these segments at once. The act of chaining these sections back to back is also really fun idk how else to describe it. So I do think Frontiers does have Sonic's core gameplay appeal handled well, add in an open world that supports physics more, puzzles that encourage more fast-paced platforming, & actually good cyberspace stuff & there's a great video game ready.
The intended way of figuring out the final boss was maxing out the update to get advice from the elder koco.
I was actually going to do that just to it the "right way" and completely filled out the island, but the cyberspace missions turned me off from it and I just decided to look up the way to beat the final boss.
I originally beat the Master Koco trial in the initial release on normal mode with the intent to come back at some point and try it on hard mode, but apparently it's a lot easier now. That's good for design, but I am a little disappointed I won't be able to try the initial hard mode.
I’m honestly glad they made it easier. I took two months off from playing the update because of how much I struggled during the Master Trial
3:52
What the heck is the second comment talking about with the jumping in Forces being better than any prior Sonic game?
The ground controls in Forces aren’t as slippery as Gens at least. (I think I’m remembering correctly)
I feel like Frontiers is gonna get the Colors/Adventure game treatment in a few years. It's gonna be praised at launch and a few years later a lot of people are gonna call it mid.
I mean, this happens with most critically acclaimed games. I remember when Mario Odyssey started getting hate after the hype settled down (I still think it's a fantastic game).
@@spontman Mario Oddysey is being hated now. COME ON REALLY?!
People are mostly NPCs. Don't be an NPC.
The updates really helped the game feel better overall, but a lot of things still need to be fixed.
I'm baffled that nobody in Sonic Team today seem to understand the fundamentals of good game design and it showed in the updates, they had something going for them and didn't make it the highest priority of the updates, the physics are and will remain fundamentally broken and the environments are simply unoriginal, it's likt they learned all the wrong lessons.
I hope they do a lot better for the next game, they have a lot of good templates to follow, yet they follow the bad ones.
15:40 they didn't even do THAT when the update first released you just had to figure it out on your own
10:06
That’s a Warp Ring.
I know this isn't relevant to the video, but you missed some VS episodes. Mario 3D Land VS Sonic Generations, 3D World VS Lost World, Odyssey VS Forces, and Adventure DX VS 64 DS. Also, are you gonna do a 3D Mario marathon? I was gonna do that on my retrospective channel that is (hopefully) gonna start soon. Anyway, have you heard about the rumored Sonic and Shadow game that's coming out next year? Or the stuff about the follow up to Frontiers being an Adventure game? Also, great video.
Yes, I will do a 3D Mario marathon eventually. That's also part of why I stopped doing VS, since I can better express my thoughts on those games in a longer format.
@@spontman That makes sense. Also, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
I love sonic frontiers 😊. The base game of course when it came out and I finished it! It was amazing
14:18
This boss rush was really hated because it wasn’t designed with perfect Parrying in mind. As a lot of the time, you can only parry on very inconsistent parts of the bosses’ attacks. Like right before the hit, right after the hit, way before the hit, way after the hit, or right when you get hit. The Wyvern was the worst part as failing a parry would force you to wait a long time until given another chance to hurt the boss. This was soooo frustrating that I gave up on the game for two months until it was updated. But it was so bad that it really ruined my enjoyment of the game, so the final boss was made even worse with its terrible design. So it caused me to just not play the game again for another 2 months.
17:09 I mean i enjoyed this game but he's right the elements that really made a sonic game is..gone
THANK YOU! I agree completely with you. I don't think Frontiers was a step in the right direction but it was an okay game, the updates made it better but still.
I through i do have a different idea of how to make an open world game of Sonic work... Just make multiple levels, that are connected to a central hub world initially the player doesn't need to cross them combine, but it's possible, and there is level design. And through the late middle to late game, it's necessary for the player to play through this combine level design. I think it could be a great idea, because it could allow the developers to make base gimmicks for the players to get to know first and then later on combine them in, interesting ways, allowing for super creative level design. That's at less how i see it. Instead of making small Action stage make 4 or 5 big ones and allow them to combine in different ways, upping the levels of creativity, but i don't maybe im too ambitious
So, basically... Like Sonic Adventure and what 06 was trying to achieve, right?
Fun fact: For 100% completing the game right after you beat the final boss after SOMEHOW figuring it out with no hint or tip...
The game tells you exactly how to beat said final boss you JUST BEATED.
BUT DON'T WORRY GUYS, THIS GAME IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!!!!!!!
The whole point of adding Big was that, in case you don't like a certain part of the game, you don't have to do it. Why force players who don't like fighting enemies into combat? You could make the argument that "if it's not fun then improve it so it WILL be fun". That's not the point. Some people aren't coming into a Sonic game for the combat. Even if you improve it, they'll complain. Big gives them the option to skip what they don't like. Was the fishing OP? Perhaps. However, because it was boring, you are discouraged from playing it for long periods of time and instead play the main content of the game. The game gives you the option to do only the stuff you like. Improving the combat to be more fun isn't a good enough solution.
Maybe the game shouldn't have had combat then? Either way the fishing trivializes a lot more than just the combat, and my main criticism was that it rendered the Cyberspace stages pretty much unnecessary
@@spontman But that's the thing. If there's a part of the game you don't like you can skip it. Improving the gameplay is great, but not enough for some. As someone who enjoys everything in the game (memory token platforming challenges, map missions, combat and cyberspace), I don't use fishing. I don't want to skip stuff I like. I love the variety of activities in this game, and the combat adds to the variety. Removing the combat will make things less enjoyable for me. I know it has issues that I want to be fixed for the next game, but even as is I enjoy fighting enemies and guardians.
You could make the argument "a player shouldn't limit himself to make the game more fun". Well I don't have to raise an RPG's difficulty to the hardest level to be challenging and fun, but the option is there. I don't have to explore the entirety of BotW or TotK to beat the game, but I want to because I might miss up on a Divine Beast/Shrine/Temple I would've enjoyed. On the opposite end, if there's an activity I don't like, I can skip it.
Just pretend like Big doesn't exist. Even in The Final Horizon I collected all the lookout kocos I needed for progression via exploration, and yet I did the cyberspace stages anyway because they were very fun, and that includes finding collectables, which I have no idea why you didn't enjoy them. Sonic shouldn't always go fast. Exploration and occasional slow platforming is still a part of his identity. Reaching the end of the stage is too easy (especially with the spin dash) so the devs wanted you to do exploration to make these lookout kocos more worthwhile. You can still get some lookout kocos via finishing the stage, but that requires beating hologram Tails, finding a hidden goal and not getting hit by mines. You only need 20 lookout kocos to unlock all the 5 towers so I'm sure you'll find the missions that don't bother you, especially considering many of the collectables are on the path so you don't have to look so hard for them.
Is it really too bad to let the player choose the game's difficulty or what activities he needs to participate in to progress? I like Big for allowing players to bypass activities they aren't interested in.
@@roiitzkovich4545 When everything is optional, nothing feels necessary.
@@spontman Much like BotW and TotK! And fishing isn't THAT good. Players are barely able to cheese Ouranos with the few purple coins they find on the ground. You can even disable starfall events if you think they give you too many coins for fishing.
@@roiitzkovich4545 Right, and plenty of people dislike botw and totk for that very reason.
I think for me, the reason why Frontiers stands out compared to the previous games in the "meta era", is because it's actually ambitious and makes you feel something again. Sure a lot of the elements of the series that are appealing are still missing, but I'd much rather have those things sacrificed for a game with ambition and heart, rather than a mediocre boring game that does nothing new and takes the same premise as previous ges and just does it worst than the first attempt every time. It's the same reason people have come around on 06 and now say it's one of the best games in the series, same with Unleashed. The series is at its best when it's really trying something bold and cool, even if it may not be the most polished, but seeing people long for the Adventure days and "Dark Ages" style of Sonic again helped me come to that realization.
I started playing SF for the first time recently. I'm really impressed with it, it's really fun. Great graphics ( I'm playing it on ps4 )
Goated video. Its nice to see a different perspective on this game.
I know update 3 got a patch 1.41 to fix some of the problems update 3 had but for some reason I was never able to get this update it came about 4 weeks ago and It still won't show up for me in the updates tab its a shame.
after dream team i find it crazy how i enjoyed the mobile game more than the console game... i love frontiers to death but it has way too many frustrating and unforgivably bad parts wheras dream team is basic but just fun, quality content overall with no annoying parts
3:52 well... Things got out of hand 🗿
As someone who has played the game for four days straight after buying it for Christmas(Christmas Break gives too much free time) I agree with the retrospect that you gave, especially the pin ball physics(that is, in tandem with good level design, key to an amazing Sonic game). It doesn’t stop the game from being fun(except some cyberspace levels the physics tend to screw me over). I love the freedom of expression that it gives, but it can be improved upon with the points you made. Are you gonna talk about how to improve combat? I have my own ideas but I want to hear yours as well.
If they keep going with the combat they have, I think my suggestions in part 1 would be enough, but I'd also like if XP was exclusive (or at least most heavily rewarded) for defeating enemies. And of course a more expansive skill tree.
Why is professor pickle in the thumbnail
heyo! "feels nothing like forces" commenter guy here, apologies if my comment sounded silly, didn't intend to come off whiny or anything like that
personally in my experience, sonic feels better to control, even if some fundamental things stayed over from forces, ive felt he controls much better, and he does gain momentum from rail launching in forces if you complete cyberspace challenge which unlocks you the cyber space power boost!
i appreciate you at the end saying that if someone genuinely likes the game, that's great and that the takeaway shouldn't be "you shouldn't like the game", as i feel many youtubers tend to take potshots at fans for enjoying it and attempt to make them feel bad, which sucks
because i really do enjoy the game, in spite of all of its flaws ive found comfort moving around in the islands, or replaying the game just to re-experience everything, or even resetting my records in arcade mode to replay the levels and play it all over again, its kind of a comfort game to me in the sense that it gives me a feeling of the wild sensation a sonic game could give you, regardless of its lack of momentum and quality- it's not a perfect game, and i totally acknowledge that, but man id be lying if i said the game didnt make me feel so calm and happy
i dont like frontiers because i dont want another forces, i like frontiers because despite its shortcomings, its a game that keeps me invested enough to continuously play whenever im in the mood to play it
@@Terminal_Apotos my message isnt even intended to be aggressive or mean towards spontman where did this reply of touching grass come from😭
all i said is its nice when fans arent tearing each other down, regardless if i shouldn't care what they say or not, its the thought that counts
@@Terminal_Apotos funny how even after i apologized to you, you continue to antagonize me lol even tho i do nothing wrong
19:49 rather than just having new characters, how about they also flesh out the ones they already had and abandoned? such as mighty, bean and bark?
because that would be boring, GIVE ME NEW THINGS, NEW CONTENT! NEW CHARACTERS!!
@@-oldhope- they would, all in all, be new characters since they have no personality and have been seen so sporadically nobody really knows them.
@@midorifox That's still just recycling old characters designs that are less noteworthy, into something that could be cool, but if you're gonna make something cool, you might as well keep it from being stale and introduce a new staple character that they actually put some thought into, rather than putting thought retroactively into characters people don't really know or care about smh. imo. tbh. lol.
@@-oldhope- introduce a new character and then forget about it like any other. Seen Silver or Blaze in recent games that isn't Forces? Yeah, me neither. Sonic team has a catalogue of abandoned characters that could fill a book or two
Bro sonic frontiers final battle base game is a horrid horrid horrid abomination that nearly killed this game for me the new super sonic final boss reddemed this game in my eyes and i shed a year at that final boss for how epic it is and how absolutley amazing the music was. It gives me goosebumps every time i wont lie
SA1 movement is not perfect. Take deceleration for example, in Classic games Sonic would just lose some of his speed but you can stop decelerating at any point you want and that gives the player a lot of control over Sonic and his speed. In SA1, by holding the left stick in the opposite direction Sonic is moving makes him enter the skidding state where he will lose all his speed gradually until he comes to a complete. You can only cancel that state by jumping or spindashing which are not good ways of maintaing speed thanks to the jump's aggressive air drag and how spindash changes Sonic's speed when you release it.
Didn't say it was, just think it's a good starting point.
@@spontman I still wouldn't agree but I respect your opinion. I love SA1 but Sonic Team would be better off following the game design of Classic Sonic games while also applying common sense 3D game design to it (if they are making a new character controller for their next Sonic game)
That prompt to dodge only appears on easy btw.
Ok, so we aren’t gonna be glad that Sonic Team gave us three (technically 4) FREE updates that fixed and improved Frontiers and made it even better than it already is.
I don't get why going back to the way sonic adventure handled different characters is a good idea. The classic games from S3&K onwards follow the castlevania 3 logic of having One gameplay but different way to experience it, so the player tries different chsllenges and increase the replay value, which is the logic that frontiers follows.
But adventure gave each characters a different gameplay of varing quality that nobody asked for no reason: everyone wants the speed base platform of the main sonic style so why wasting dev time and resources on cramming a bunch of different type of games when there should be just one type? It makes the package inconsistent so why suggesting to bring it back?
Hence why I said "don't stray from the core platforming concept" and suggested Year of the Dragon as reference. I'm not asking for another Big the Cat here.
@@spontman but you said they need variety like in adventure
Will you cover spinoffs in future videos?
Stay tuned
Idk if u know this but in the master koco trial they teach u how to switch targets in the Knight fight there's a prompt if u sucessfully target his head instead of the Blade which u are forced to ride on if u hit it enough but im amusing u didnt know how to do that and thats why it showed up in the end's new fight after u died
The prompt showed up in the Knight boss but not in The End until I died. Is the hint showing up supposed to be contingent on whether you do something in a previous boss? If so then that's even worse than I thought.
@@spontman I think it shows up if u sucessfully dodge his shield and change the target so you avoid doing the part where Super sonic rides on his shield into him to damage him
@@rando6677In the speedruns ive done for final horizon, the prompt never showed up on supreme even when i dodged knight’s shield
@@invalidfileIt was added in the Final Horizon patch and the prompt is meant to show up on Knight Not the End
@@rando6677 I know it was added to the patch, but if it was just for Knight then thats just stupid
atention!!! atention!!! hot take alert!!! hot take alert!!🤖🤖🤖🔥
Im confused so the new supreme fight during the beginning and when ever he regens health the top right a thing thats been there since day 1 that taught you if u need help push said button and you didnt see that during 999 seconds and when you watched a youtube video for help. Or when compiling footage also sonic team is small and you cant say people have confirmation bias is why we like it then say if you like it thats ok. You invalidated that statement in your last sentence
The only thing I'll say is ur mention of referencin Adventure as a game that "translates classic sonic's fundamentals brilliantly into 3D" is factually incorrect as adventure is a VERY failed attempt at that & they jus gave up wit 2.Technically speakin both heroes & Shadow actually do a more accurate job at it than ppl give em credit for. That's all
"You're wrong because you're wrong" is not an argument. Tell me WHY and HOW Adventure is a failed attempt. Tell me WHY and HOW Heroes and Shadow succeed where Adventure doesn't. And I mean that sincerely; I love hearing other people's perspectives.
@@spontman Stuff like air drag, the way they fly off ramps, how they turn in 3D, the spindash spam, obv they're philosophy on level design structure(admittedly this one mostly only pertains to heroes). ST at the time stated heroes was made to be a lot closer to the classics than adv was even though it utilized the same template adv started & shadow which was obv usin things ripped straight from heroes did similar in terms of control jus by tweakin things to fit a more single character focus of play since no teams. At the end of it all none of these truly provide that slope/pin-ball physic gameplay from the classics so if that's wut u want then pretty much none of these should be looked to for truly SONIC gameplay. If u want Adv gameplay say adv or rather describe the type of gameplay experience that style provides in as most accurate a way as possible, if u want boost say boost or more precision based gameplay. However if u wish for true SONIC gameplay as the classics defined it then u really can only start from scratch. ppl who say adv is the same really haven't played the classics to me. Actually the funny thing I jus remembered is unleashed actually gets really close to that "ideal" however due to it bein boost all that potential is overridden lol. So if anythin maybe they could try to copy that without the boost for OZ but for numerous reasons I C a fat chance of that lol
I recommend watching this first impression video about Sonic Frontiers more about this game and all of its flaws 👇
ruclips.net/video/V3l1efGjYJU/видео.htmlsi=-NRGd0B0gCDcsjU6
Then this 4hr stream to get really in depth with this game 👇
ruclips.net/video/h59ysRVbY34/видео.htmlsi=plnoyFI0AILhkDS_
Also these two long playthrough videos for final horizons 👇
Friends:
ruclips.net/video/GDHp5UH4N7k/видео.htmlsi=d26n4A9FIkE-1W15
Bosses:
ruclips.net/video/zcxWtB8b-dY/видео.htmlsi=pXHxdL65EFWDb98X
And this cyber space one if you're interested:
ruclips.net/video/9RUFUQL4VDg/видео.htmlsi=AkIaDpuOoVXRJcsq
But i think you will like what they did with shadow generations 😊
Frontiers was NOT broken to begin with. It was already amazing, now its just 10000× better. We should thank Sega and sonic team for their dedication and hard work!
I'm guessing you're 9? Maybe 10
The updates got to game from a 7 to an 8. Solid game, would recommend.
@@entertainer_ev2747what no I'm just an optimistic 14 year old😉
@@entertainer_ev2747and I just like the game so much, what makes me 9 or 10?
Agreed, Frontiers is marvelous singe the beggining. Effort rewards
What about the koco platforming
I disagree on the notion that cyberspace shouldn't be omitted progression wise on The Final Horizon, I didn't enjoy the levels (and doing them for the Lookout Koco feels more of a chore than the main game) and I take more enjoyment out of them if I don't have to worry about the damn collectables, the moon medals can go to hell and so can cyberspace Tails.
I mean yeah, with the way they are, making them required would suck
be aware that the recent patch ruined the update
Another mastah piece! The burps get me every time!
15:16 well atleast i know what to do now..lol tye fact they didn't give any direction of what to do is bad...i haven't played the final horizon yet but now i knoe what to do now it would be more enjoyable for me the finao boss but..i must survive the final horizon first oh boy..
I recall you liking the game initially, so while I am surprised about your opinion swapping, I can understand it. Like Adventure, it was hyped up to be something different than the previous titles while claiming to stay true to the original formulas. Whether or not their claims are true, they did offer a new and unique experience. I agree with how fundamentally flawed the game is (honestly I saw it coming from just the teasers), I will give the situation this; a fresh experience is often depicted as something better, regardless of its form. For instance, music remixes: When one stumbles upon a remix of a song they are super familiar with, they gravitate towards the remix as really good, even when the remix is bad when you analyze it. The subconcious reasoning is really just experiencing something new with something you are familiar with, almost like a jamais vu with a hint of nostalgia. This might have been the case with Frontiers advertised as a "Sonic remix," and a Sonic remix we received. Debate is up for the quality of the remix, but I say everyone really liked the game initially solely because it was a new "mix" of the Sonic game formula.
finally we end the year on a bang
the game was pretty mid at first till the updates where it became kinda decent
Final horizon was good it was a test for the next game and I hope that the next game will deliver
It's so weird that it took them this long to make Sonic 3rd. It's a weird transition because there's only ever been 2d Sonic games before this, and, I'll say it; this is a rough transition into 3d for Sonic. :/
😔
I just played Forces this month and with how much fun I am having collecting Moon medals which appear in levels after you collect all the red star rings I can't help but feel like anyone who says Frontiers is better is an insane person.
I WONDER IF NIGHTS IS GETTING HIS SECOND GAME CALLED NIGHTS INTO DREAMS 2
SOON CAUSE
NIGHTS HASN'T GOT A SECOND GAME IN A VERY VERY VERY VERY
LONG TIME AND I'M
STARTING TO BE CONCERN SO I THINK IT'S TIME FOR NIGHTS TO
GET A SECOND GAME CALLED NIGHTS INTO DREAMS 2 AM I
RIGHT AND BY
THE WAY JULIO
AND I ARE BEST
FRIENDS AND
WE NEVER SPLIT
UP OUR FRIENDSHIP LIKE
ELMO AND ZOE HAD IN SASAME STREET RIGHT
*blows you up with my mind* 💥
I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously when you're clearly playing on easy. You say you enjoy the towers, but they're not even remotely challenging or engaging on easy. All you have to do is homing attack balloons and springs.
The final trial is also stupidly easy as well if you're not on hard. Before the patch, hard mode was a few frames, while easy was a few seconds. But after the patch, they made it basically forever, and hard mode was made quite a bit longer, which is good, but why say it sounds interesting when you're still gonna play on easy? You did realise easy mode makes things easier, right?
I switched to Easy because by this point I was sick of base Frontiers, which I played on Hard, and I just wanted to get through the DLC as quickly as possible. Not sure the condescending tone is necessary, especially when you're seeming to imply that my enjoyment/disappointment with any particular part was invalid just because I didn't play it the same way you did. If they didn't want people to play on Easy then they wouldn't have it in the game.
@@spontman That was rude, I'm sorry. I should've just explained about easy mode in a better way than that. I honestly didn't think you'd see it since the video was 9 months ago, but I do apologise.
You talked about the parry, like it was no longer difficult, so I assumed you didn't know that easy mode did make it and the towers trivial at best.
If you liked the rhea towers you should honestly give the new ones a try not on easy mode if you actually didn't, and possibly the last trial, because personally it is enjoyable to time it correctly on hard mode.
The Classic Sonic games do not appeal to me. Neither does Classic Mario.
It’s bc it’s a ai gimmick man.
So all I get from watching your videos is whining and complaining when rarely anyone complains about what you do because most people are actually enjoying the game, every game has flaws but people actually have more fun with Frontiers than don’t
If you don't want a critique, don't watch a critique.
@@spontman Complaining is not critiquing, I can listen to people critique the game as long as they bring up good points and actually have reason, your reasons make less and less sense as it goes on
@@TheBushGaming this is a pretty good video as someone who likes Frontiers idk what you're on about dawg
@@TheBushGamingCould you share some specific examples?
16:23 I never expected you would swear here it’s sad I actually thought you were better than that, however you should know it’s inappropriate and disgustingly foolish to the point that if you’re going to swear more times…