Otto Warmbier: The Strange Case Of A North Korean Propaganda Prisoner
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- Опубликовано: 25 апр 2024
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I'm fucking tired of manscaped ad reads
Wonder if Otto Warmbier was a CIA plant made to make north korea look bad. Makes you wonder.
I'd like a tad more effort from the narrator. Example there's very extensively available video news pronouncing the subject of this video correctly as "warm-bier"
If you can blather on in you ad reads so thoroughly is pronunciations the subject's name so taxing?
I'm not going to be buying the Performance Package 5.0 Ultra, or any other product from that company to be honest.
Otto Warmbier died for this performance package
The fact Otto’s parents refused an autopsy is incomprehensible to me! So many factors of this case currently in the grey could become clear and despite fighting for their son, they chose not to. Downright strange.
Jewish burial rules.
It’s due to stupid religion.
@@kenolson6572 That still is ridiculous to me, though. Their deity will forgive them for wanting to get answers in such an extreme case as this. The answers they're demanding from North Korea were possibly right there in front of them and they let them slip away over "burial rules". They're never going to get those answers from such a government. Where they need to be looking is now six feet under.
As stated above, they were Jews. Additionally, there were ample tests, MRI, etc. when he was living. They knew enough.
I would have opted for an autopsy, but I understand their reluctance.
Religions in a nutshell
"I believe in god. God knows all answers"
"Science? Nah, Science knows jack"
*god refuses to answer*
"Well, I wish I'd given science a shot!"
I can think of several forms of torture that leave zero physical marks, say, waterboarding, white room torture, and so on, so there not being physical evidence for it means absolutely nothing. Especially when a person who was in perfect health before visiting North Korea comes back in a vegetative state.
He came back in a vegetative state because he attempted suicide.
Bloody hell. If that's what they did to someone they knew they'd have to return to his home country, imagine what they can do to their own.
You dont have to imagine.
I know a N.K. lady who escaped with her immediate family across the Yalu River to China. This was when she was a young girl. Her parents were both killed by guards, and she managed to continue. But she has recounted various horrors of friends and family torture to me, which are truly heartbreaking.
@@CubicSpline7713like? Some details would be nice, not just another ambiguous cryptic generic message that tells you nothing
@@janusjones6519 They have specifically been known to sell slave labor to Russia via Siberian work camps. The other one that jumps to my mind is organ theft. People in need of an organ transplant can go to China where a North Korean prisoner match can often be found. At that point the organ is removed and sold. The prisoner just dies on the table.
I’ve watched and read so much about North Korea and it’s honestly terrifying. The people there are starved while being forced to worship the hand that eats their food. Some documentaries on it I suggest are by Vice and the “best documentary” RUclips channels.
@@adamtankersley7441 would be good to see some actual evidence for your stories
Had the opportunity to visit North Korea 15 years ago. Turned the offer down and never once regretted it!
In my mind, if someone tries to get me to go somewhere like that, its called abuse and disrespect.
I would totally go. They get hundreds of thousands of tourists each year, so the odds of being Warmbiered are vanishing small. That said, you can be damn sure I’d be on my best behavior (and verbally kiss a lot of KJU ass lol).
You are a sane and responsible person. If only there were more people like you.
@@BuddyLee23 You need therapy and pills.
F that place!
Exceptionally good condition tells me 2 things: 1. he wasn't bed ridden for a year, 2. torture by drowning cannot be ruled out
With the brain being deprived of oxygen, couldn’t that be an effect of water boarding? That’s the first thing that comes to my head. I thought I heard someone at one point refer to this as a “dry drowning” which seems like the most likely. Although, I don’t think anyone will ever know for sure.
It also doesn’t rule out beat. For how long he was there he definitely had time to heal any bruises
He WAS bedridden for at least a year.
It also doesn’t rule out suicide. The kid was given 15 years in a labour camp after all.
exactly what I thought. They could have easily either lied about the cause of it (how does a prisoner get a sleeping pill.....), and/or the timeline
I did the DMZ tour on one of my port visits to South Korea. Went to the UN building and walked around the table, technically in North Korea. That was far enough.
I did the same thing when I was stationed in South Korea the first time back in 1993. It was incredibly educational and interesting. Those North Korean soldiers were huge.
Why why why
Would you visit North Korea?
@@NonWokeVeteran He's not christian.
@@NonWokeVeteranwow they let you access RUclips over there? What's it like living in the shitty Korea while South Korea is rich and vibrant?
the pursuit of the unknown, chasing obscure experiences. honestly if I had to pick between caving in tight tunnels and going North Korea, I'd pick the later.
@@murabula2092 He didn't have to choose between two things, he willingly went to a very dangerous place where they kill their own people.
Yes, Why? Let’s go with Oceangate instead.
Lee Chul-eun, the defector interviewed by Asian boss wasn't just a prisoner but he was a high ranking elite spy for North Korea before he defected. (Which made his interview even more interesting imo)
He says Otto was probably tortured, mostly due to the language barrier, with poison & other ways that don't leave marks. It was a really interesting interview.
(I actually didn't remember him being a prisoner but it's been a long time since I watched the Asian boss interview)
💜
Lots of comments about the autopsy thing - this has to do with Jewish tradition and burial rites that dictate the condition in which bodies should be buried. Hope that helps clear any confusion.
Thank you for clearing that up. Assumed it has to do something with Jewish burial rites, but wasn't sure. Appreciate it!
I guessed this was the case because I learned about this while watching CSI New York
Oh I didn't know he was Jewish.
That's OK then.
I figured they just wanted to keep their son's body as whole as possible considering he had been there for so long the toxins could easily have left his system by then. This makes much more sense. Thank you for the clarification.
Which, imho, is so ridiculous! To not have an autopsy in such a case simply because of an imaginary sky daddy is insane. But obviously it's the family's prerogative.
While other foreign prisoners have been tortured (at least psychologically) to get a confession, after their trial they almost always end up in a safe house or hotel before eventually being exchanged with the US as part of sanction relief negotiations. It seems unlikely that whatever happened with Otto was intentional. Still, the situation should never have happened.
Bit of an NK savant, here. Read literally every published English source about the country (thanks libraries!), including at least two books by people who were held in NK but were released. And based on what happened to them vs. Otto and their accounts of treatment there, I really believe he attempted suicide.
One was a reporter, and the other was a missionary. Both spoke some Korean and had experience with how North Korea often does things.
And they were OK, even though they had allegedly committed worse crimes (preaching, and being in the restricted border area with China). Scared and worried, but they had faith and knowledge.
NK tries really, really hard not to seriously harm or kill their foreign detainees, because they’re actually more valuable alive and as bargaining chips. But, this doesn’t mean they don’t completely mess you up psychologically. The reporter, Laura Ling, nearly had a breakdown, herself, even though she was never hurt and kept in okay condition in the capital, because she was constantly interrogated, lied to, gaslit, and denied sleep. This was a woman used to travel in all areas who had at least 10 years on Otto.
If this happened to her, I think the manipulations of the regime probably work more effectively on a younger man without special knowledge. Looking at the bilateral brain oxygen deprivation and the coma, what seems most likely is that he either hung himself (bilateral deprivation can come about by suffocating on a noose, if it doesn’t break the hyoid bone) and was cut down too late, or that he took an overdose. Laura Ling was given tranquilizers during her detention there, so if Otto was desperate, he might have gotten hold of the entire bottle. Oxygen deprivation can also happen if one overdoses and stops breathing during sleep.
I agree with your conclusion I think this is very likely.
Why do you think he killed himself when he was getting released? Have you heard the claims that Otto got caught stealing a poster on his tour as part of a dare gone wrong with his friends back home who had already completed the tour? Any thoughts?
@@babyramses5066 The reporter and the missionary I mention were both initially told that they would get 15 years of prison, and were officially sentenced to that. In most cases, NK will hand down a long official sentence, then give a humanitarian pardon later for international relations reasons.
Laura Ling and Kenneth Bae might have known this when they were sentenced, because they’d researched NK and even tried to work and report on there, but I can’t see why Otto would have known this.
The Koreans say something happened to Otto the night after his sentencing- which was likely for that standard 10-15 years. So if he genuinely thought, at 21, that he would get over a decade in a gulag, I can see that he might attempt suicide
I always thought it was due to a suicide attempt for pretty much the same reasons. It was the day after his sentencing. The claim a pill was involved. And bilateral o2 dep is associated with botched hangings ...which are often self hangings, or lynching, but certainly not government executions, even in 100 yrs ago a proper execution was a drop hanging that broke the bon.
I agree with you. I read a really excellent article in GQ that put forth the theory of suicide too. The North Korean handlers would have been panicking because, as you said, he would have been worth a lot more to them alive, so he would most likely been given the best medical care but the brain damage was too severe.
Umm, obviously he didn't deserve to die. But being stupidly reckless in a crazy place like that is batshit.
That assumes he actually DID it -- why would you actually believe anything the North Koreans say about the case?
@@ConnieHirsch He went to North Korea. That in itself is reckless.
He was probably a cia pity plant!!!!!!!
@@ConnieHirsch About 5000 western tourists go to North Korea each year, and over 100,00 Chinese tourists. Only a handful of tourists have ever been detained, usually for religious activity such as trying give out bibles. Given that tourism is an important source of foreign currency for North Korea it’s more likely than not that Otto did do something to get himself arrested, even if the actual charges are nonsense.
@@tommy9565 That video's pretty sketchy. That doesn't look like him.
Why the hell would you go to North Korea voluntarily?
I’m going with whatever impulse immediately proceeds the phrase “hold my beer and watch this”
Morbid curiosity
It's not *that* bad if you aren't American or South Korean. Or a missionary. Otherwise, follow the rules, especially the ones about the propaganda posters, and you'll mostly be fine.
I would rather go to Wisconsin to visit my ex-wife's mother before going to North Korea. That speaks volumes...
Whimsical stupidity.
The DPRK obviously did something to him - maybe waterboarding or some other water-based torture? But you can't "rearrange [someone's] teeth with pliers." You can certainly yank them out that way, but you can't move them around. Maybe an autopsy would have provided more clues to what happened. But once again religion stood in the way of logic and reason.
Hell, prior trauma to the jaw should have been visible on a CT scan, and they were already doing those on him for the brain injury
you can definitely rearrange teeth like that, i broke my jaw while wearing braces, which saved me from knocking out the teeth, but they were severely bent and had to be re-adjusted and that was basically done with pliers...^^
@@Muunstaa Owie! But that's quite different than pulling them out and putting them back in, but in different locations.
@@kathryncumberland fair enough, didnt think of that, but yeah that obviously doesnt work
@@Muunstaa Yeah, I've seen the interviews with the parents and that's what they were saying - that the teeth were rearranged. It's such a crazy thing that DPRK _clearly_ did something horrible to Otto, yet he also didn't Even have bed sores. So many strange details.
His story is a warning that being a fool can cost you your life. But who in their right mind would go to North Korea? North Korea is practically a prison and the people are the prisoners.
DPRK iis very interesting country to visit.
@@Max-kw2hp Agree...how are we suppose to know what's going on in places like NK...I also agree...don't act a fool.
@@Max-kw2hp
North Korea is only nice if you come from that shithole russia.
I mean it's a calculated risk. Plenty of people visit russia, china, afghanistan, etc. And there are risks to this - yet people do it.
Hundreds or thousands of americans vacationed in north korea without issue. Like at the time, as long as you stayed within the lines and obeyed the rules set by the government, you had like a 99%+ chance of being just fine visiting north korea. Trying to steal anything in north korea is wild - anyone who went should have realized that was a bad idea, had he not done this he probably would have been fine.
It's like taking a small amount of drugs into a country where that could be the death penalty or decades in prison - like sure, it's minor, it doesn't hurt anyone, but it's monumentally stupid.
@@Artyomthewalrus
If you are lucky in russia you only get drugs planted on you, sent to a work camp, and then traded for an arms dealer. Unlucky you get impressed into the russian army or sent to a work camp to die. Don't go to russia.
Does a study abroad program in LONDON and thinks North Korea is comparable.
Americans....
Regardless of if it was a criminal act or just sheer incompetence from the North Koreans, Otto was still in their care and it is their fault that he is dead.
Why yes, I assume every prisoner has access to random sleeping pills at will. Sounds totally legit.
Precisely what I thought. ESPECIALLY IN NORTH KOREA. They're not known for their luxury prison camps.
In some sense though that also makes it sound more plausible (especially for a high-value detainee - remember that Otto was the focus of an international news story), as they could easily come up with a better story had they wanted to. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction…
@@BuddyLee23 Perhaps, but I have a very hard time believing that a country that specifically uses keeping detainees awake to mentally torture them just had a change of heart for Otto. Even moreso because the guards are told from the time they can process language that Americans are the devil, and this one was caught for crimes against the state.
Foreign high value prisoners do. Laura Ling allegedly said when she and Euna Lee were kept, they use psychological torture but after they sentence you to standard "10-15 yr hard labor " as foreign high value prisoners you dont go to any camp detention. You are kept at a fancy hotel and given tranquilizers when you get unmanageable. Basically you are warehoused to be traded at right political moment to gain stuff. But they gaslight and lie to you constantly about everything til she thought she was having nervous breakdown.
I think it's likely he attempted suicide.
And god knows how extremely difficult it is to keep botulism out of the food supply these days.
The case of Otto Warmbier is a deeply tragic and complex international incident that highlights the risks of traveling to North Korea.
There's something that rubs me wrong about tourists going into a country where the entire population are literal slaves and getting drunk and having a good time courtesy of the people who enslave and abuse their own population. Not that he had it coming but there's a certain tone deafness about it that makes it slightly hard to feel too much sympathy. It's sort of like if you were in 1942 Germany and you know who wanted to throw a party and you not only accept but have a genuinely good time and sure, there might be millions of people suffering and dying in the camps they've built but oh well, it's not going to stop you from having a good time.
Nahhhhhh he had it coming.
No to mention it helps feed the economy of said brutal dictatorships/governments at best. At worst, they brainwash you, too, and you become testimonial of how "great" it was (like Cancun vs the rest of Mexico)
And decide to steal a nazi flag while you're at it.
@@sommmeguy I have a vague sense of the implication here but can you elaborate?
@@mentat1341I agree 100%. He fucked about and found out
Comparing Otto Warmbier's tragic North Korean experience with a Manscaped shaver is wild. Otto's story is all about serious human rights issues and political drama, while Manscaped is just about grooming and self-care. Otto's case makes you think about international laws and justice, but Manscaped is more about looking good and feeling confident. If Otto reviewed it, he might say: "After all I've been through, small comforts matter. The Manscaped shaver is a lifesaver-easy, efficient, and gives you control. Definitely recommend for anyone wanting to up their grooming game." Just shows how varied life can be!
I do find it very odd to not do an autopsy but then want to sue for monetary incentives. Like either you’re accepting the never knowing or you want to hold someone accountable, that is some action by the family that I cannot understand.
As a parent I somewhat understand why there was no autopsy. For one his mother was Jewish and I know some Jewish people and orthodox Jewish people have religious reasons why they don't want autopsies done. But beyond that if I just watched my son die after coming home that way nothing in the autopsy is going to help me. I already know what the north Korean government is capable of and the autopsy findings would only add to my pain to know more details of the suffering I already saw. He was already gone his family had enough pain. Let them all grieve and look for peace.
It’s not about the family in this circumstance, this was a flash point in global politics and his death was understandably seen as a very hostile action to the US. When world wars could be started there’s a bigger picture than just what the family wants.
@@coffeedealerr I really don't see how an autopsy would have changed anything. Even if the autopsy showed mistreatment or torture north Korea will just deny it and point the finger else where. They would never admit to anything and it would probably only worsen the existing tensions because we're throwing accusations at them. And honestly no ones gonna go to war over one guy. The United States has done far worse to our own its all posturing as far as them being upset this guy died
If that were true they wouldn't be going around trying to get justice for their son, they would be trying to accept it and move on. It's strange in a way that they would try to claim compensation from the North Korean government, but refuse a standard medical procedure that could give them hard evidence in their favour. Fair enough if they don't want the autopsy for whatever reason, but then they will have to forgo the justice as well because they let go the one big opportunity they had to get concrete proof of what happened.
International travel is risky. Going to nortth Korea is absolutely dangerous.
Oh god. Now this is a video I didn't expect. I've been obsessed with this case. Haven't watched it yet but thanks for making a video about it. Truly a sad one
This was an atrocity and they murdered Otto. I remember babysitting the three of them back in high-school. The family were our friends. I'm filled with rage and despair with what happened. Yall stay safe.
I remember hearing that the parents denied an autopsy... shook my head then... shook my head today... RIP otto ...
It's because they're Jewish.
But under the circumstances, surely it would have been better to overlook that and allow one.
Depending on how observant the family is/was, the refusal might have been on religious grounds.
@kayanneyoung9788 yeah but i think any all-knowing, all-loving god would probably forgive this family for wanting to know what happened. its crazy to let an entire government get away with this stuff just in case your god is a little mad at you
@@miikauranot the place for this. Im not even religious, but the parents were going through so much when they were choosing what to do with their son’s body. Their decision has to be respected. They’ve been through enough.
They are Jewish. And the autopsy would be unlikely to provide any information they didn't already get at the hospital.
Regimes like the DPRK will just straight up make up reasons to take someone if they really want to. A bit of context that often gets sidelined when discussing Warmbier is that there were two other Korean Americans (who had spent years doing humanitarian work in the country) were also arrested within the same time period. They were both accused of spying by the DPRK but had never gotten into hot water before that since their presence in country had always been sanctioned by the regime. I think whether Warmbier took the posted or not it’s pretty clear the DPRK was actively trying to find Americans they could use as bargaining chips.
It's shocking how many torture methods leave no marks. Not to mention the timeframe he was in their custody. Torture could easily have occurred early in his captivity, and then naturally healed in that timespan. Too many unanswered questions, and it's a bit eyebrow-raising that they didn't do an autopsy.
It's due to their and his religion dude.
@@Matt-Durham Oh, I know that. In this situation though, people are going to immediately assume something shady was going on. That's why I said eyebrow raising, and not shady. Appearances are always the first thing, and if you allege torture, but don't allow an autopsy, it's going to look suspect.
Not criticizing, just pointing that out. Considering North Korea's horrible human rights resume, anyone who doesn't think torture first is being willfully ignorant.
I have zero interests in visiting North Korea.
Firstly, because I don't wish to participate in funding a regime that suppresses it's people and commits heinous human rights violations against those people.
And, secondly, they want you to bow to a statue of Kim Il Sung... My Grandfather fought in the Korean War, and there is no way that I would ever bow to a statue of the person that was the enemy of my Grandfather and his comrades that he fought alongside. That would be spitting on his memory.
Its ridiculous that his parents denied a autopsy. That was their only chance of closure
This is a perfect example of “F*ck around and find out”. I’m sorry that this young man met a fate like this, but don’t tell me a smart man like this hadn’t heard what N. Korea is like. 2. We don’t really have any business traveling there, but if you are going to go, you better learn their acceptable behavior while there and finally, if it were my son and I was concerned he was tortured, I damn well would have had an autopsy done. Tragic and unnecessary situation all around!
If the words of his roommate are anything to go by, he was probably intoxicated by alcohol when he did it.
@@arjanzweers6542 Yea, no way can I ever sit and act like I’ve been perfect under the influence of alcohol. Major reason as to why I haven’t touched the stuff in over a decade.
So many things done (where I absolutely would have known better when sober) to awaken with a hangover and say “oh, yikes, I really did that? What was I thinking?”
I know a lot of people have gone straight for the “alcohol is no excuse given what everyone knows about North Korea” when one proposes the idea that he could have been drunk, but it genuinely can be an excuse when we factor in tolerance level, what alcohol it could have been and its contents, how many/much is drank, etc. … it can definitely impair one’s ability to make conscious choices, even if they don’t display signs of being overly drunk (staggering, slow and sloppy movements for example). I mean, it’s often called _liquid courage_ for a reason and could very well attribute to his foolishness with taking a piece of propaganda.
@@arjanzweers6542 yes, you don’t have to be pass out, stumbling drunk to make poor decisions… Frankly, N. Korea isn’t the place I would want to party or have drinks… but that’s just me.
North korea openly admitted that the theft of a poster can cause severe damage to their country. That is a country on the brink of becoming part of the hunger games.
@@arjanzweers6542 Intoxication is not an excuse even in normal democratic countries. If you do something idiotic while intoxicated, you pay for it (actually more often than not, you pay even harder). So yeah getting drunk in a country, where uttering wrong word gets you jailed... baaaad idea.
Believing what North Korea says is like believing what China says.😂
A video on canadas unknown maximum security prisoner would be pretty cool
I don't believe for one second that Otto did a damn thing. The footage that somehow "proves" he did it is just as convincing as blurry bigfoot footage. There's no defining features that prove its Otto, and with no timestamp, that could've been taken months or years before Otto's visit.
Somewhere online I saw his full confession, and it was the most bizarre thing to listen to. Take away the fear in his voice, and you have a "confession" that makes very little sense, especially to an English speaking audience.
I think North Korea needed a pawn in effort to get some sanctions lifted, and this isn't the first time they've kept foreigners as hostages for some arbitrary reason. Otto unfortunately, was who they chose.
If you are in North Korea for a 5-day visit and you went downtown and got drunk you have issues with keeping your wits about you. I heard they had him on tape but I never heard how bad the tape was. If you were on a tour bouncing from place to place and you hit hell and then you hit North Korea it would kind of be close.
I wouldn't be surprised it it was him. Take him from the airport, let him sit in a cell a few days. Then tell him to "Go play with that poster a few minutes and we'll let you go." Then they have their "evidence".
Seems like something the DPRK would do.
@@Plaprad if you went downtown in North Korea on vacation for 5 days and got drunk like they said I don't have much faith in your common sense.
@@Plaprad they don't have to do that all they have to do is just keep the camera on these people go get drunk and do something stupid.
@@Plaprad it doesn't really seem like anything anybody would have to do these guys were so relaxed and North Korea they were downtown drunk according to one of the people that was with him. It doesn't seem like they had to do much to get a guy that's drunk in North Korea to pull some kind of a prank or do some kind of a shenanigan it's what drunks do.
Well presented
I’m looking forward to seeing Simon do a video on understanding the 2022 China Shanghai’s COVID lockdown and the complexity of politics behind it.
💯
Claiming that North Korea didn’t torture a political prisoner, which he is since he’s an American, is the same as saying the CCP isn’t sending the Uyghurs to concentration camps.
I mean, he broke the rules. He made it political. He's an American and fully aware of what that means politically. I'd argue we all do. He gambled and lost its unfortunate. However, a lesson to learn from.
Nobody talks about how this case was Kim Jong Uns revenge for the movie The Interview
I don't get why the family wouldn't allow an autopsy if your main focus is to solve what happened. It doesn't make sense.
Jewish religion doesn't allow autopsies.
Because they took the "shut up" money and were happy they got anything.
I think it has to do with Jewish customs. The body should be buried unharmed, that means, without an autopsy. As far as I understand, there are rare exceptions in which an autopsy would be allowed: It is mandatory in the deceased's country of residence, they died of a hereditary disease and living relatives might benefit from an autopsy of the deceased, or a person currently living anywhere on Earth is suffering from the same deadly disease (Online source: Raawi, Das Magazin für jüdisches Leben in Deutschland).
Maybe a Jewish person from the US knows more about this than I do.
@@carminia824 this is correct. It comes from the same traditions that forbid tattoos. The idea is that your body should return to the earth in the same condition you were born in.
This comes from the concept that while your soul is yours, your body is borrowed from G-d. Hope that clears things up.
The short answer is that Jewish burial customs are very different to Christian burial customs.
Being an intelligent free world type of feller. I would never travel to Russia, China and especially not North Korea (amongst many others). I feel very bad for his family but that was not the best decision.
Russia and China are way safer than anywhere in America.
Not the US of A, i mean the whole American continent.
But i admit DPR Korea doesn't really inspire safety, if anything cause you won't be able to communicate with anyone outside of the country.
Well done, and in an interesting compelling production. But, why the references to “North America” and North Korea rather than the United States and North Korea? The citizen who is imprisoned was not a prisoner of the continent of North America rather, he was a citizen of the United States of America. I’m sure Canadians, Mexicans and the other people North America might be confused by this reference.
Simon how do you differentiate between Decoding the Unknown and this channel, or any channels from eachother.
Do we HAVE to know "exactly" what happened? The kid got caught up in a political scheme that ended badly for him. Is it relevant to know if he suffered from torture or not? Would that really make a difference about our view of North Korea? The USA torture as well, both officially and not, and there nobody really digs very deep either.
Otto is dead, his parents try to get a fantasy amount of money, for whatever reason, and things are back to normal for everyone in North Korea.
The fact Otto's body never received an autopsy is highly suspicious.
Bro, they would have to kill me before I read that statement. If im gonna die, its not gonna be reading a lie like that and crying. . .
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
You mean to tell me that a tour group full of Aussies, Brits and Canadians WEREN'T highly intoxicated on holiday, in a place with dirt cheap drinks on New Year's Eve?
I call BS
Seriously though, no autopsy. What were his parents thinking?
So... Now, if it doesn't leave a mark it's not torture? Yeah, that's not a terrifying view.
Wait till you hear about Gitmo
Vacation to North Korea? Otto learned when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes the hard way.
I did: ruclips.net/p/PLlwL2oqstrHr8WlDoBcej-N2a0j36TSKe
So what?
@@seriouslyfunny11
I'm not dumb enough to click on your virus.
So he lost his life for a poster? No, that’s not right, I don’t care how entitled he may have been.
I went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole reading at the same time as this video… and sir, you almost word for word used the entire Wikipedia article as your script
Dang 😂😂
I have this feeling that every political person who commented was very carefully with the words they said. Doctors said he wasn't tortured. I'm assuming they meant physical torture as the victim wasn't interviewed. Mental torture will break you just as bad as physical torture. Injection of drugs is also an option.
Highlights:
[00:01:27]3 Otto’s Condition Upon Return
Otto returned from North Korea in a vegetative state
Suffered severe neurological damage
Passed away shortly after being brought back to the U.S.
[00:02:51]4 Otto’s Arrest and Detention
Arrested in North Korea for a “hostile act”
Confessed under dubious circumstances
Sentenced to 15 years of hard labor
[00:06:08]5 The Political Aftermath
Otto’s case heightened mistrust between North Korea and the U.S.
Became a catalyst for increased political tensions
Led to the U.S. banning travel to North Korea
[00:13:58]6 The Legal and Emotional Battle
Otto’s parents sued the North Korean government
Awarded a large sum in a default judgment
Struggle to uncover the truth continues
12:01 - bro bloody loves James Patterson.
Being a fool can cost you your life
I thought the defector said he wasn't tortured he was interrogated, which did require explanations that they are done in different rooms.
Not to victim blame, but the parents wanting justice for him but not doing an autopsy is a huge disservice to him. You can't keep demanding accountability when crucial answers might've been right there in front of you. Not sure if it's too late, but I hope they have his body exhumed so an autopsy can still be performed, though the best time to have done so has passed. I understand wanting to grieve, but that can always happen later. Evidence is time-sensitive and needs to be gsthered as soon as possible (and yes, I would feel this way with any of my family members and would hope they'd do the same for me, I'm not trying to be callous. That would bring me more closure as well in a case like this because otherwise, you're forever left wondering).
I can understand being curious about N Korea, considering how often it comes up in the news.
I don't understand why you would take or even want to take a poster knowing N Korea's rep.
My theory: what if Otto tried to hang himself. He was stopped, but he lost too oxygen to the brain, which rendered him to be in a vegetative state.
If that happened north Korea would have said so and would have probably provided medical data from doctors as evidence. The fact they didn't, suggests strongly that north Korea did this to him.
@@musashi939 Good point, sadly, we will never know.
@@h.haydon8044 true. And it also doesn't matter and doesn't change anything. Ok maybe for his poor parents they would have received closure since they didn't do an autopsy for religious reasons.
@@musashi939well that would mean the dprk would have to admit they weren’t monitoring him enough to prevent suicide and also why he wanted to die in the first place.
@@rationallyruby true. If it was a suicide attempt. We just don't know. You're right. Maybe he really attempted suicide and they said, let him do it. Look away, doesn't matter.
You shouldn't need physical evidence or an autopsy to figure out that when a once healthy American returns from a North Korean prison in a vegetative state, torture was involved.
@@acmhfmggrubecause his parents declined because of Jewish burial customs. It may seem infuriating to some, but when someone has just died, the best you can do for them is to respect their religious beliefs and customs
While an autopsy might have answered some questions, it would have opened up a whole different can of worms since autopsy results can be subjective. Customs aside, with everything they’d been through I can’t blame his family for not wanting to have their son’s remains basically become public property. They’d already suffered enough.
Can you look into the murder of Lee Brown, an English man, by UAE police?
i feel strange when simon talks about his balls and underwear
Do you wonder if they are as smooth as his head? Me too.
@@mentat1341 obvs
Can't secure justice without an autopsy.
I feel so sorry for the Warmbiers - to lose a child or brother in such a brutal and unusual way.
We got N Korea back by sending in Travis King.
18:31 why the f did the parents refuse an autopsy? That’s absurd. I can’t believe I’m saying this but they seem to have been less transparent than North Korea and that’s quite the achievement. If one was a CIA asset…you wouldn’t want an autopsy would you. I really can’t rule out that he actually did exactly what he was accused of tbh
3:13 - 'Ecuador, Cuba, and Europe'. 🙃
IMHO - the parents were speaker either from a place of grief or a place of manipulation when they exaggerated his condition.
I hope it's the former.
But wouldn't put the latter past them when they wanted justice and thought this would get it.
"History can say what it want but rarely does it remember anything correctly"-Lawkeeper Equity Mlp Ace Attorney EOJ
Shout out to the Tapes From the Darkside podcast for his series on this
They should had done an autopsy.
It’s against Jewish burial customs, his parents probably wanted to give him what dignity they could. It’s not like it would have made a difference. Whether they tortured him to near death or imprisoned him and failed to give proper treatment, the personal and policy results are the same.
Too worried about insulting the North Koreans 🤦♂️
@@meglukeswhat do you mean it wouldn’t have made a difference? Yea it would! They would know more on how he died and how his last year of life was!
@@rationallyruby "the last year of his life"... that's easy, it was hell, and because of it he died. This isn't CSI. The exact cause is moot. As he was in NK custody, regardless of outward aggression, or incompetence, he died because he was in NK custody.
@@thatfordboy4297people die in custody in literally every country on earth. Without knowing *why* he died in custody we can't say for sure that the north Koreans treated him any worse than any other country's prison system would have.
*"...the Warmbiers were also told to avoid mentioning that Otto was jewish given fears of antisemitism..."* That's even stranger since judaism and communism are synonymous.
This poor kids case has always been suspect. Do prisons hand out sleeping pills? Seems like a luxury they wouldn’t supply especially in North Korea.
There was a reporter who was captured for five months under Jong-Il, and she did get tranquilizers during that time (ironically, the regime does its best to keep foreign detainees at least healthy enough to show they didn’t do damage and did not ignore them, which supports hostage exchanges ).
@@alexpeltier3330 wow that’s interesting to hear.
Who would think stealing in North Korea might get one in trouble?
…the entire point is that he didn’t steal. NK scripted his “confession”
That trip was around 3500usd give or take was going to go from china ( vacation) but had to go back! that poster he tried to take could have been purchased at the yanggatto hotel and or one of the regular stops on the tour that doesn't make any sense
I wonder why there was no autopsy. It's hard to take DPRK at their word considering he's dead over a poster.
Because of Jewish traditions.
@@Grimlock1979 Oh I see. Thank you for letting me know.
Episode on Pennhurst Asylum?
Ever heard of "clean torture", Mr. Whistler?
Probably not. Simon is something of an innocent. And we like him that way.
Or psychological? Love their assumption that torture is only physical in nature.
@@deaniej2766No, it makes him naive and very unaware of the darkness in life. Not knowing about clean torture allows one to say he wasn't tortured, which is disgusting. I'm glad the CasCrim channel has really opened his eyes to this stuff.
@Jennifer-rp2sh
Psychological torture cant put someone in a vegatative state. It can break your psyche/mind, yes.
But vegatative state is an actual medical condition. It means your brain has suffered physical damage that has destroyed your higher brain functions, although your automatic lower brain functions like breathing, blinking
uncontrolled vocalization, eye movements, heart beating and so on.
You cant make it happen through mental torture.
It can happen thru oxygen deprivation, poison, drugs, diseases/infections, beating of the head. Things like that.
You didn’t bother to mention that Trump literally said that he fell in love with Kin Jong Un.
“I was really being tough - and so was he. And we would go back and forth, and then we fell in love, okay? No, really - he wrote me beautiful letters, and they're great letters," - Donald Trump
I also prayed the rosary in Iran, but in the privacy of my hotel rooms! I knew that praying it in public in a predominantly Islamic country might cause offence.
Simon, big fan here. I was wondering if you had any suggestions on the best tool to shave my butt hole hair?
Bleach.
@@fumanpoo4725 but it's already blonde with a lil red I think
As someone who is severely disabled & been bedbound for over 2yrs bcos of this, the no bed sores is extremely peculiar. Personally, I myself have never had a pressure ulcer (the official name) but that is because I have an extremely rare genetic disorder which along with a long list of complications, randomly makes it almost impossible to get bed sores. Every medical professional is always shocked/amazed when they see I don’t need any preventative measures taking like routine turns, special air mattresses, etc. So that should show you how rare this is. Otto clearly didn’t have this genetic condition by the mere fact he could walk & wasn’t in multi organ failure from early childhood. So my honest opinion? He hadn’t been bedbound for that long. He also had way too much muscle mass still when being carried out, if he’d been bedbound a year he’d have nothing left and would be floppy not rigid. I think he became bedbound shortly before being released. They couldn’t release him healthy as he’d be immediately debriefed by the CIA, etc so they had to find a way around it. I think he was tortured in potentially 3 main ways: white torture, drowning, and/or drugs. Non of these would cause physical injuries which could be found by a doctor or coroner, yet would have huge benefits for the perpetrators. And the only visible problem being the brain injury most likely due to lack of oxygen just screams even more that he’s been drowned. I would not put it past the DPRK to drown him, leave him dead a few mins, then get their drs to resus him. But that few mins of no oxygen does cause serious problems. But as for the other 2 types, I think white torture would help them drive him crazy, and drugs could then put him in a prime position to take in all their propaganda & lies. He was likely on drugs (or in some sort of hypnotic state) when doing the public confession. He was far too animated it felt like he was a puppet…
North Korea has released other prisoners so the part of the theory with the cia doesn’t make much sense to me. This was a disaster for NK, resulting in them being on the terrorism list. I’m 100% certain it was either accidental drowning/overdose by the North Korean authorities or OW tried to commit suicide.
Listening to Simon at 2x is hilarious
It’s very odd that an autopsy was not performed. You’d think that would be one of the first things you request to be done
Isn't Young Pioneer Tours the same group that John Chau hooked up with when he was convinced to go visit North Sentinel Island?
That man was told repeatedly to not make contact with the native population.
I will have to research that question
They probably told him he would be let go if he read the statement.
Absolutely
a man scaper that you put up your nose? Brilliant! haha
An unfortunate example of how someone can be considered academically bright, yet at the same time completely stupid and reckless.
The fact that the parents didn't want or get an autopsy is SO SO SO suspect. You can't claim torture if there is no autopsy.
Omg i found a new fact boy channel
I wanna see the mascaped sponsor on brain blaze!!! Might be the last time they advertise on factbois channel after that madness
It makes me sick to my stomach to think what they did to him. His poor mother
There’s every possibility that he tried to hang him self but was found before death could occur. That could explain being starved of oxygen to the point of brain damage. He will have been seen as a valuable tool so keeping him alive and well would have been high on the agenda. Eg. The care given just before his handover.
The creepy North Korean music is a nice touch
When this happen it was outrages. Just bc of a poster
I was just on another video and someone commented that Otto had been in an argument with someone important in North Korea. They couldnt arrest him for talking back so they staged the robbery. 😲
crazy...
He should have known better than to argue with anyone in North Korea nevermind someone important. Surely he knew what that country was capable of. He had it coming.