1st Nephi 1-5 - "I Will Go And Do" [Jan 8th through 14th 2024]: Mormon Sunday School
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- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2024
- Welcome back to our 2nd installment of "Mormon Sunday School" podcast! I'm your host, RFM, and today we're diving deep into the second week of the "Come, Follow Me" curriculum for the Book of Mormon in 2024 specifically 1st Nephi Chapters 1-5. Get ready for a revelation-packed episode as we explore the often overlooked but captivating account of Nephi's daring act-the slaying of Laban.
In this episode, we'll take you on a journey beyond the surface narrative and unravel the layers of significance behind Nephi's pivotal decision. Join us as we navigate through the scriptures, drawing connections that may challenge your perspective on this well-known story.
Link For this Lesson from the LDS Church - www.churchofje...
Mormon Sunday School is not your typical Sunday School experience. We're here to uncover the hidden gems, the nuances, and the deeper meanings that may not be readily apparent in your regular class, to learn stuff you're never gonna hear in regular Sunday School. So, buckle up for a thought-provoking discussion that promises to enrich your understanding of this crucial moment in Book of Mormon history.
In "I Will Go And Do: Unveiling the Mystery of Laban's Slaying," we'll explore:
The Spiritual Prompting: Delve into the reasons behind Nephi's profound spiritual prompting to take Laban's life and the implications of following such divine direction.
The Moral Dilemma: Examine the moral complexities surrounding Nephi's actions and the lessons we can extract from his unwavering obedience.
Discuss how Nephi's experience can be applied to our lives in the 21st century, exploring the relevance of his journey for modern-day discipleship.
Mormon Sunday School, where you will learn stuff you're never gonna hear in regular Sunday School. Tune in and join the conversation as we unravel the mysteries and enrich our understanding of this impactful moment in the Book of Mormon. Don't miss out on the insights that will deepen your appreciation for the scriptures and strengthen your testimony.
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This is great! I love how you pull in parallels from the classics - Milton and Shakespeare. Thank you for doing this! Provides the in-depth analysis and critical thinking that is rarely found in regular Sunday School.
I loved how you used the classic literature in this lesson. So thought provoking RFM, thanks.
You are the absolute BEST! Thank you for these gems 💎
I love this analyz
Shakespearskt ❤️❤️❤️
Fascinating analysis! Finally a mormon Sunday School worth attending (and I was once the gospel doctrine teacher!!! Sigh.). Thank you, RFM, for your brilliant efforts.
I've been looking forward to this all week. I love that you're doing this, RFM!
Me too!!!
This is a fantastic paper. The breakdown is phenomenal.
This is such a compelling analysis of this early story in the Book of Mormon. I remember in my "Member" days justifying this story and celebrating the bravery and obedience of Nephi for this action. Never stopping to analyze the action, the consequences, and the alternatives.
RFM, you are a wonderful teacher of this spurring critical thought about this story and also exposing an alternative view of the consequences. I had never before given thought to the two points you made. First, the Liahona appearing to Lehi simply out of thin air, as if it was placed by God for his use. There is no explainable reason that God could not have done this same thing with the Plates of Brass. Second, the curse of Nephi learning about the death of his posterity, his people, culminating the story of his people all those years later.
Your words also brought to mind another curse that his visions brought. He probably also saw the translation process of Joseph with the Plates as described to us. The fact that the Plates were rarely, if ever, used in the translation and that God simply dictated the words to Joseph and the Plates were not needed. I see this as another example of Nephi's potential realization that his actions were unnecessary and didn't serve their ultimate purpose.
I look forward to next weeks' lesson and keep this coming. It is awesome to go through the Book of Mormon from a critical viewpoint. Something I'm not sure I could do myself.
This was my first roadblock to “get over” before I joined the church
Deeeeep! WOW, I really liked the reversal of thought re: Nephi’s killing of Laban, and what exactly was that spirit he listened to. Excellent thoughts! Thank you so much, RFM!
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE these sessions RFM. So helpful to learn these things.
Your clarification is so appreciated! Thank you.
Super insights RFM and just what I have been yearning for as I increase my understanding of what I’ve overlooked in the past.
I love this new podcast, RFM. Great job
Excellent. Let's think! Great points and representation... You both are amazing. Thank you.
I've been contemplating the story of Nephi killing Laban and I couldn't help draw a parallel to a certain scene in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. My brain works in strange ways, so let me explain...
To set the stage, two Jedi Knights (Obi-wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker) are on a mission to rescue the Supreme Chancellor Palpatine from the main enemy ship during a space battle between the Galactic Republic and the Separatists. After they successfully board the Separatist ship and find the Chancellor, they encounter the Sith Lord Count Dooku and a light saber fight ensues. During the fight, Obi-wan is knocked out and it's a one-on-one duel between Anakin and Dooku. The duel ends when Anakin successfully (and quite literally) disarms Dooku. Upon seeing Dooku unable to defend himself, Palpatine exclaims, "Good, Anakin good. Kill him. Kill him now." Dooku gives a horrified glance at Palpatine and back to Anakin. Anakin, with two lightsabers next to Dooku's neck, hesitantly replies, "I shouldn't." In a rather firm and forceful way Palpatine commands Anakin, "Do it." Finally, Anakin does the deed and kills Dooku. Anakin is visibly shaken about what he just did. Palpatine reassures him, "You did well Anakin. He was too dangerous to be kept alive." Anakin rebutts with "Yes, but he was an unarmed prisoner. I shouldn't have done that. It's not the Jedi way." Palpatine calmly retorts with, "It is only natural. He cut off your arm and you wanted revenge."
As I listen to RFM recount the events of Nephi encountering Laban drunk and unconscious, having an argument with the spirit about the ethics about killing Laban to obtain the brass plates, then ultimately following through with chopping off the head of Laban, I couldn't help but draw some parallels between this Book of Mormon story and this scene from Revenge of the Sith.
Maybe I'm crazy, but now I can't help but wonder if George Lucas was inspired indirectly (or perhaps directly) by this story in the Book of Mormon while writing this part of the story in the Star Wars saga.
Either way, both of these stories gave me pause to think about how easy it can be for any one of us to go against our own moral intuition when we are being pressured to do so. It's a very sobering thought.
Anyway, those were my thoughts as I listened to this podcast. Thank you RFM for the different angles and perspective you gave for this story that can be very awkward for TBM's to try and justify. I know I've learned something new. 🙂
Beautiful interpretation! 👏🏼 the Sunday school I have been waiting for.
Love the Shakespeare angle on this.
This is even better than I hoped. Thank you so much!
Well done! The idea that Nephi became Laban is intriguing.
WOW! 😅 Your MIND RFM!!What an amazing take on Nephi and Laban.
Now THAT is a Sunday school class worth attending. You ARE the Man!
Looking forward to the next class. Thank you so much!
Thanks for this. Much food for thought.
Weird thought, is Nephi Joseph Jr and Laban is Joseph Sr who was a drunk and destroying the family with his schemes... I wonder what was the catalyst for Joseph Jr coming up with this story.
Money, power, and women. JS was nothing but a fraud and a con artist.
Loving your teaching. I've always wondered this story also
Totally brilliant!!!❤
Absolutely amazing. Will be following this very closely.
Love this new program!! Thanks RFM!❤
Glad you enjoy it!
Lesson 2 subtitle: Complete Submission, Compliance, and Justification for murder
RFM, thou art a miracle worker. Thou has made the BoM no longer chloroform in print. 😀😀
Holy crap! If this was the discussion in Sunday School, I’d actually go.
I would contend that the 'evil Laman and Lemual' brought about the desctruction of the Nephites, so if it was just to kill Laban to prevent a nation dwindling in darkness, then it seems just to have also killed Laman and Lemual.
When I hear the story of Nephi killing Laban I now think of how the Happiness letter tried to justify Joseph Smith Jr's proposition to the 17 yr old Nancy Rigdon.
Thanks for sharing such interesting points! I remember, having grown up in the church, the very real compulsion to try to rationalize (or at least overlook) Nephi's killing so he could still be seen as righteous... and not knowing what else to do with the conundrum - I kind of allowed it, though it never sat right with me. Neither, for that matter, did it sit well with me that Laman and Lemuel were constantly pushed and prodded to go to the new world with the rest of the family, when all along they clearly didn't want to. It honestly felt to me as if someone (aka God?) had actively manipulated the characters of the story (against their will and conscience!) in order to maintain the future clash and drama throughout the entire BoM, rather than because of any loving design. Another conundrum.
Over the years of much more development of my understanding, a possible interpretation of this situation has presented itself, based in the very definition we use for God. On the one hand is the definition that God is Love, and God is ALL, God is the beginning and end... which are equatable concepts of Wholeness, which explains how God can be Holy (whol-e = holy) and have a nature that will never do ill. On the other hand, in mormondom (and for that matter also throughout the Greek myths and other places): God is ultimately a glorified man... having incredible power at his disposal over others less fortunate, but still inherently fallible as man is fallible, because he is capable of NOT loving in his use of it. Both of these definitions have been in regular use since antiquity, and seem to be interchangeably referenced throughout scripture... and yet they are NOT and never have been compatible with each other. Any single part of the whole (which any individual thing that exists inherently IS, including any glorified man) _cannot be equal_ to the entirety that includes _everything_ that possibly exists. It's an impossibility. Any of us parts _can_ be ONE with it (meaning _undivided_ from the whole), as Jesus described himself to be (and as we are authentically called to be!), but NO mere fraction (or slice) of the pizza can _ever_ be equatable to the entire thing. (That's basic math!) If any fraction insists upon presenting himself AS the whole, while in fact being essentially divided/separated from it (thereby causing a _world_ of followers to dwindle in unbelief): he has taken God's name in vain.
Anyway, since both of these Nephi-family stories involve examples that aren't actually _loving_ on the part of the God involved, I can only conclude that a less-than-worthy glorified _man_ was actually the one calling the shots. Nephi really COULD have been trying his best to be divine by following the given instructions (likewise with Joseph Smith in some of the claims he made), but faithfully listening to a god who wasn't being _holy_ will still end up with an unloving conclusion. Thus, it truly behooves us to always pay attention to which definition is being used. If we would truly be holy, only the first will suffice. I suppose that would be my take-away from this story.
Thanks again for sharing with us this wonderful podcast! :)
Great lesson RFM!!! You're making me want to pick up the book of Mormon after years of not reading it because of your interesting perspective. I think not condemning the murder of Laban was the reason why I had such a hard time understanding the concept of the holy ghost at church. We were told in youth class that if it tells you to do good, it's the holy ghost and then you look at 1Nephi 4 lol. This also reminds me of the time I was in a summer job and shared the book of Mormon to my coworker and he immediately came back to me about Laban's murder too. I gave him the usual justifications but this lesson made me think of how dangerous it was to justify this. What lines would we cross for the sake of righteousness?
I had a lot of chewing to do from this lesson and it actually (!!!) made me want to be a more active choice maker, and treat Nephi as a cautionary tale.
Also how interesting Sunday School would be if we can ask these types of questions?! One can only dream lol
Christ takes a back seat in Mormonism.
The entire Bible is completely annihilated and thrown out completely in the Godless abomination of mormonism.
"if they had" yes, such a core point.
Don't forget to hit the LIKE button my fellow truth seekers ❤
No mormon is a truth seeker. There are no people more completely blind, lost, and deceived than the mormons. A mormon is one who is 100% opposed to the truth. Repent!
Hilarious. I wish we had a teacher like you. Thanks. May I share some of your insights in Sunday school, on any given Sunday?
Wow-Shakespeare AnD Milton AnD Homer, impressive !!
Exceptional paper. Perhaps it should be added as a resource to this lesson.
Thank you RFM for your scholarship. I appreciate your intellect and wit. Your analysis of the Nephi-Laban story is spot on and rings so true. I look forward to next week's breakdown of lesson 3. Please keep doing what you are doing, it is tremendously valuable work.
You are very welcome
Loved the Shakespeare!!
Off topic a little bit: It occurs to me (because the Nephi killing Laban story has been left out) that the church keeps reducing the learning materials which is another way the church is making the members’ worlds smaller and smaller. Not only is their no opportunity for deep analytical thinking in Sunday school anymore there isn’t even an opportunity for full knowledge of the scriptures on a basic level.
Thats in addition to cutting out a lot of social events at ward and stake levels. Cutting out relief society being monthly. Broadening how we do ministering, but by broadening it, instead of did it being a once a month visit, it’s supposed to be a regular texting, calling, visiting thing that happens more than once per month. There’s good and bad points to it.
But what I’m trying to say is that the members bubble keeps getting smaller and smaller… even when it looks like the church has given people more personal time at home, that personal time is meant to be used on spiritual things and the guilt of not doing it ties members to the church even more because they then have to repent of their complacency.
Anyway, it just struck me when you were talking about the manual how much more control the church is taking over people’s thoughts and sphere of knowledge and how powerful that is.
As I’ve been writing I realize how complicated and confusing it is that this is true at the same time that they chrhc has done away with a little of the physical time required at the actual church building.
You’re an amazing teacher sharing the actual TRUTH. I never thought I’d enjoy LDS Sunday school again, but here I am!!!
Wow, thank you!
New to channel. I've heard Mormons rarely talk about Jesus. Makes sense now.
And when they do, they are not talking about the Jesus of the Bible.
@@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6edThanks for your kind ministering in the comment section...
@@gcarson19 ,...You are welcome. I have spoken the truth for the edification of the blind, lost, and the deceived. And, there is no one more completely blind, lost, and deceived than are the mormons.
Mormons are the pinnacle of the Biblically illiterate and the willingly ignorant.
It was the initial use of a flaming sword; it cauterized all the major veins and arteries in Laban's neck so there was no blood...
/s
When you were reading the 1st
question, it popped in my head that I feel like the questions in the lesson manuals and now Come Follow Me lessons, are so dumbed down, it is insulting. I know it is geared towards people of all ages, but it just feels so insulting to be asked these "Primary " questions.
It definitely changes the perspective if one considers Nephi was tempted instead of commanded and therefore cursed. Do we forget the mother of all living even, Eve was commanded and tempted, and all of her prosperity cursed, subjecting women to the men they birthed. When does the creator become less than it's creation? Does God become subject to man? Eve ate a piece of fruit, enabling mortal life. The scriptures are filled with prophets and men waging war, and like Nephi, kill and murder in the name of God and reign as heroes. And so few come to reason that God is a convenient authority to justify and convince others to wield oppression and terror. Forgetting Satan is also a God of this earth. So beware of what one claims to be from God.
I totally agree with other comments: Now THIS is a sunday school class worth the time to attend AND full of info vs bias. Thanks RFM!!!
In previous manuals for the teachers, the teachers were instructed to not add any other information to the lesson. I was actually publically criticized by a former bishop for actually reading a scripture that wasn't specifically in that lesson. Would a teacher now 'get in trouble' for bringing up the story of Laban?
Yes. This lesson would be chewed and swallowed by the members, and eschewed and belittled by the leadership.
Mormonism is a 100% false manmade abomination. Repent!
7:20 some families will have their kids act that out
Is the comparison with Greek tragedy valid? The Greeks were polytheists which meant that there could be conflicts between the supposed wishes of different gods. People had to choose which god to obey. They understood that to obey one god might mean offending another. I suspect that the problem with the story of Nephi slaying Laban is that God commands Nephi to kill Laban and then punishes Nephi when he obeys God's command. Nephi believes that he is doing what God requires of him. Instead of rewarding Nephi for his obedience God punishes him for committing a terrible sin. This raises the question: how can a man live righteously if he worships a God who requires absolute the obedience of his worshippers and then punishes them severely when they obey his commands? It is difficult to avoid the question: is God just? The idea that there is only one God becomes problematic if he decides what is right or wrong, if he issues arbitrary and contradictory commands, and punishes the people who are most obedient to his will.
The online manual has a video about nephi killing Laban for the primary kids!
How did you do that? You made the Book of Nephi seem as profound as Shakespeare and Milton.
Do we know where the Liahona was to have been beforehand? I guess I always thought it was a heavenly device (from Kolob?!), so perhaps the reason God couldn't have transported the plates was because 1.) Earthly people have to carry out earthly workings and 2.) To teach Nephi a lesson. I see issues with both those points, however it is a lesson that God isn't just going to give you things in life. He would want you to work for it, and by working hard for things, we learn along the way. Though I can think of a couple arrested people that learned a not-so-beneficial lesson from Nephi's plight to get the gospel to their "nation."
Do you really not understand how absolutely lost and deceived you are? Mormonisn has nothing whatsoever to do with the Christianity of the Bible. It is a 100% fake con artist made fraud. Repent!
36:20 INot only is Nephi struggling with the loss of family connections in the here after but Joseph Smith also dreamed dreams and feared the death and the possible loss of his brother, Alvin, forever.
Repent!
To analyze Joseph's story of Nephi cutting off Laban's head as though Joseph had in mind writing some deep Shakespearian tragedy is to my mind silly. Joseph the country bumpkin was in his own uneducated way just attempting to write an exciting adventure story with a little kindergarten theology thrown in. RFM's knowledge is indeed impressive, but I think he was just showing off.
Correct. One has to be completely Biblically illiterate, as well as totally willingly ignorant to be deceived by the abomination of the bom and mormonism.
RFM is the man in the arena. What does that make you?
Your reply doesn't make sense. One has nothing to do with the other.@@gcarson19
I love the combination of so many good fictions, Lord of the Rings, Shakespeare and the BoM, to show literary lessons.
Yes, the bom is nothing but manmade science fiction fantasy. It has no basis whatsoever in truth or in reality.
Glad you like them!
@@MormonSundaySchool ,...Why do I only see one of the two comments? Did you delete one because you did not like what it said?
Never mind, I refreshed, and I now see the other comment.
RFM could you post links for your other podcasts?
But did you watch the VIDEOS in the lesson? One shows the killing in realistic pictures and one shows it in cartoon figures. Both accounts do include the beheading. It is left to you to provide the intellectual discussion. I appreciated the comparisons to the classics, which deepened my sense of the difficulties.
The videos aren’t in the print version, obviously.
@@AvadenSV Does anybody EVER use the print version? OK, I guess some people do. I can't cope with one more physical book. Thanks for caring.
What happened to the man who walked into your Sunday school class and asked about the Murder in the Book of Mormon?
And don’t forget after the nephi decapitated Laban he then proceeds to kidnap Ishmael or Laban’s lacky, can’t remember his name
The bom is a 100% fake manmade science fiction fantasy book. It has no basis whatsoever in truth nor in reality.
Not surprised the story doesn't seem logical, it's a story.
Yes, absolutely, the bom is all nothing but a science fiction fantasy book. It has no basis whatsoever in truth or in reality.
It seems to me that the Lord ordered a number of men to kill men, women and children and they did I can’t remember the exact story but I’ll find it if you like. Also the Lord had Noah build an ark allow eight people inside then he caused a flood that wiped out the rest of humanity (men, women and children) so the Lord telling Nephi to kill one man doesn’t seem to shocking.
Nephi blood atoned Laban. Brigham taught and even practiced blood atonement for 20 years.
See? Your first episode has 1k comments, now it has only 600+... How many came back already since you were gone? 😜😇 I will not be surprised you will be the only one left in this channel...All your subscribers will come back before you know it. 😂
The story of Laban is problematic on many fronts. If 2 Kings 24 is to believed, after King Nebuchadrezzar besieged and captured Jerusalem and installed Zedekiah as his puppet king, 10,000 of the elite citizens, craftsmen and smiths were carried away and NONE REMAINED EXCEPT THE POOREST.
The whole bom is a 100% fake manmade fraud. It has nothing whatsoever to do with truth or reality. It is a science fiction fantasy book.
You are forgetting the 3rd use of our Savior....to guilt us into obedience so Jesus doesn't have to suffer because of our lack of obedience.
It is a conundrum for sure.
Cuz you are pretty but you would look even better with those new dress shirt collars
It would be cool if exmo’s spent more effort constructing something instead of so much time on deconstruction.
Mormonism is a 100% fake con artist made fraud. Anyone fortunate enough to escape this Godless abomination absolutely should spend their time exposing what an absolute fraud mormonism is.
It would be cool if mo's spent more effort making the world better instead of annoying people and destroying families.
Unfortunately, nether side gets their way.
You want us to start a better church?
@@bonmamartine5178 ,...There could not possibly be a worse church than the mormon church. Mormonism is a 100% antigod/antibible/antichrist/false/manmade/abomination.
@@bonmamartine5178 If that were possible, then sure. But maybe there are other constructive uses of time that would be good as well.
Upgrade your collars
It surprises how little you know and how jaded your views are. First you have to remember that the church manuals are sent out world wide, including to small branches with recent converts as teachers. Yes, I too as a life long member have been frustrated by the simplistic level of the manuals but that's the reality.
Secondly, the beheading of Laban is not something "the church wishes would go away" as you stated. It's not a fundamental doctrine.
Funny that you didn't mention that God commanded Abraham to slay his son Isaac and offer him as a sacrifice or that God commanded Israel to kill all people of the seven nations of Canaan (Deuteronomy 7:2 (1-26). You also didn't mention that according to the law of Moses, Nephi was justified in taking Laban's life as Laban was unjustified in trying to kill Nephi and Laman (eye for an eye).
For anyone looking next level doctrine taught correctly and difficult questions addressed I highly recommend the channel "Unshaken" taught by Jared Halverson. He is awesome! I also highly recommend the channel "Scripture Gems".
Thanks for your ministering service...