Coop has really grown into a tour de force for the industry. Not only does he offer companies great ideas which they integrate, but now he is doing public service announcements and giving lesson on ethical behavior. Good to see moral people with a good value system In a position such as his. Keep it up.
Great video, Coop. To note, Fringe has been collaborating with creators almost since our start. And currently we dev'd the Mammoth Belt Squat with Kaizen and we are working with many other creators. As another Austin company says- Juntos es mejor- Together is better!
completely random story, but i started working out a few months ago. i did a bit of research as someone completely new to home gyms & fitness, and thought loadable dumbbells were the best bang for my buck, so i of course wanted to find the cheapest pair of loadable olympic dumbbells, and i think at the time it was the titan dumbbells. Before purchasing, i decided to check facebook marketplace to see if there were any deals, and i found dumbbells from a new company i had never heard of - fringe sport. i tried looking up the dumbbells, and found a few videos praising them and other videos talking about how things like the ability for the handles to spins etc were. I was so excited to get started. I had four 5 pound weight plates, so 10lbs per dumbbell, and with the 15lbs of the dumbbells, i thought it was perfect and drove to pick them up. i got there, the guy selling them had just dropped a ton of money on a set of ironmasters, and was really nice showing me some of the stuff he had, what it did, how it worked, etc and before you know it i paid and was on my way home. i get home, i slap my 5pounders on each side of each dummbell thinking 25lbs was a good starting point, and thats when i realized it. THESE WERE MASSIVE. WAY BIGGER THAN ANY DUMBBELL IVE HELD BEFORE. 20.5" of intimidation. some exercises were awkward. i dont have a real bench yet so when i do things like skullcrushers i bang them on the ground ive hit my ceiling a few times when doing various standing exercises. ive even hit my own noggin a few times i thought about trying to sell them and buying a pair of 15" loadables which seemed to be more geared toward a beginner, but in the end ive decided to stick with them. ive been enjoying seeing the (limited) progress as i slowly add more weight to them and some exercises like lateral raises are perfect for me to do with the empty 15lb dumbbells. im not sure if ill ever be able to fill out the entire dumbbell, but its definitely a fun starting point thanks
Anyone who have prior art on the tech PRX has now filed a patente application should publish it to the public domain. That way the patent becomes basically unenforceable.
There's no requirement for competitors to challenge PRX patents. PRX has to take the initiative to sue infringers. Yes, PRX can write mean threatening letters, but that's part of doing business in the US of A. For a competitor to infringe, their product must include ALL elements of any one claim paragraph in a PRX issued patent - one feature isn't enough.
@@johnnysquiretube sounds like you might want to go brush up on 37 CFR 1.510 Request for ex parte reexamination and 37 CFR 1.56 Duty to disclose information material to patentability. Then go see the several instances of prior art of the Kaizen and Vendetta mounts being used “in combination” posted by Kaizen DIY Gym on YT over a year before PRx filed but yet weren’t disclosed in the patent application.
@@TinyTimmy85 I'm well aware of both. Neither means that competitors are OBLIGED to challenge the patents to sell competing products if they believe the patents are invalid over the prior art. Do you believe you understand the point of novelty in the PRX claims? What is it?
Rep partnering with Pepin to make the Reppin got me to the point of purchasing a set of 125s. It also got me looking at a functional trainer from them, and a bench. So yeah, I'd agree that partnering and showing good faith goes a hell of a long way in this space and overall, it's way more beneficial for a company to do it this way. To be honest, I'll probably just avoid prx after seeing this even though I doubt that was your point coop, but it leaves a bully taste in my mouth and I can't stand that shit from companies. They knew exactly what they were doing patenting. Definitely unethical even though it was legal.
Are we certain what they did is legal and would win in court? The whole point of the gym pin was that people would use it on their jammer arms. There is even video evidence that PRX admitted taking the designs from everyone and implementing as a single unit. The point of a patent is that you come up with something new. They did not.
REP totally got me with the Reppins. I have a fixed set of DB's that I'm giving up, for the Reppins. And since I was in the market for an FT, I went ahead and purchased the Arcadia at the same time. It's a great functional trainer.....very high quality. I also bought a Double Black Diamond. I have lots of nice power bars, but figured, eh....why not....already buying all this other stuff. Before any of this, I didn't really care about REP and now I own some of their more expesive items.
@@DoubtingThomasTestsEverything Not really the point of the patent. It's more to make money off of everyone who wants to use it in their products, which is not unlike the the trademarking of names, etc. It's not necessarily about getting there first or being the one who came up with it first. The phrase that I like about taking from everyone is something I hear Jim Cornette (former wrestling manager and territory owner say) "Stealing from one source is called plagiarism. Stealing from multiple sources is called research." The lesson is simple: Until you are ready to unveil your product, keep it behind closed doors.
- Steal designs - Work with Kevin O’Leary - Patent everything as their own because smaller companies can’t afford to fight back. It’s like a trainwreck of just bad.
@@AvidStressEnjoyer Honestly, just working with Kevin O'Leary is a big red flag. He's such a tool that only cares about money, doesn't give a shit about the business or the customers. For non-Canadians who may not know, he's sort of a more competent Trump but even more of an asshole. Any business that courts him as an investor makes me really question their ethics. It's doing a deal with the devil as they'll be forced to choose profits over customers every time.
This isn’t the first time that RPx has stolen a design from a smaller company design and patented it as their own. They did it with their Rip Cord cable attachment (patent number 11872436). They straight copied Surplus Strength’s UPS high and low pulley and patented “their own” design 10 months after Surplus posted it on instagram. Conveniently PRx didn’t cite Surplus as prior art. But hey we’re too dumb to understand prior art because it’s “hard to understand”. Support small businesses!
Spot on. This is a top-notch ggr video. The PRx thing needed to be called out, and hopefully, others will think twice. The community needs to police its self to keep it healthy and moving forward. The backlash is an example of how we can all come together to keep thing honest without the need of lawyers.
I think the $1500 price tag for the PRx Halo Arms is more of a deterrent for people buying them. The blowback from the Kaizen claims just fanned the flames.
Patent costs start at about $15,000 to $30,000. That's not cheap for a small builder like Kaizen. What PRX did was simply unethical and because of that I won't buy from them unless they make amends.
This isn’t the first time that RPx has blatantly copied a smaller companies design and patented it as their own. They did it with their Rip Cord cable attachment. Coping Surplus Strength’s UPS high and low pulley. They patented “their” design 10 months after Surplus posted it on their instagram page. Support small businesses!
As an engineer, owner of a company that designs home gym equipment, and a design patent holder, I must comment on this. Investing in a utility patent is very expensive and hard to obtain. Most people think it provides bulletproof protection for their products, but it does not. Lawsuits are very expensive and lengthy; at least I heard this firsthand. I agree with Coop that partnership is the best long-term option. The world market is big enough for all of us, and we all need to balance healthy growth rates and not be too greedy. I would always recommend design patents over utility patents. They prevent other companies from copying the exact same look, allow you to have a unique design, and distinguish you in the market, all while being much cheaper
Hi, I'm happy if I contributed some insights. I have a young company, less than 2 years old. Before this, I spent 9 years in a different industry. I designed some connection mechanisms for a few prototypes, like a Smith machine, nothing to brag about, for some individuals. But then I decided to make my own product because the first option didn't pay enough to live on 😅. It's a foldable flat weight bench with the minimum possible height. I patented the design to ensure no one else had the same design. I will try to sell locally. FYI, I'm from Croatia, Europe. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm not as experienced in this field as engineers from big companies, but I have experience in production and I'm passionate about fitness!😀
As the old saying goes, "Respect is given; trust is earned, and loyalty is demonstrated. To lose one is to risk losing all three." I no longer respect Prx. Thus, I no longer trust PRX or will be loyal to it by buying any more exercise equipment from it.
That patent will be rejected, because it is not new or innovative. If the other companies have proof that they already had these products before the patent, they have to raise an objection to this patent and it will not be granted.
@@onomatopoeia6043 Kaizen is not infringing the patent of PRX. The patent is for a leveler arm (handle assembly) with a trigger lock. Kaizen makes an adapter for a leveler arm. So the first claim of the patent is already invalid for the product of kaizen. PRX patented the combination these in one product.
@@teunvereijken7086I thought you couldn’t patent a combination of previous items. The classic example being you could patent a pencil, and patent an eraser, but can’t patent a stick that combines the two.
I was so excited about the PRX lever arms and was about to pull the trigger on the pre order but when I saw what the community had to say about their duplicitous actions, I decided to wait. I hope they are able to resolve this.
Coop is getting praise but he wasn't too harsh with his criticism of PRx. He should stand firmly with the lifter community on this one instead of playing mediator.
Abmat also looks like they’ve got a healthy collab program too. Found myself scrubbing through their site just off curiosity about what unique solutions they’ve created. It definitely gave me positive vibes around them after seeing all that stuff.
The part about hiring Engineers that use the thing 🎯🎯🎯 - Nothing worse than when you attempt to use a machine at a gym and it's obvious within seconds that the people that created the machine do not actually lift.
Reading all the comments makes me happy to be part of this home gym community. Seems like we all stand with the little guys and with what’s right!! Not that I would want PRX to fail but I don’t think that this was handled right! And that video with the “explanation” was basically a slap in the face. That rep example is epic. Seems like rep is always for the WIN. - just giving my two cents. ✌️
it's weird people sit on the fence over these things......'I'll buy that someday.' The longer you wait, the longer you're going to wait for them to ship. I think the pre-orders are already pushed out to November. You scrubs can't come up with $1,200???? Broke asses
I've bought exercise equipment from PrX before, but I won't in the future. Ethics matter to me. If PrX treats its competitors this way, this raises the issue of how will PrX treat its customers in its quest for profit.
Great video. I find it odd that he uses Amazon as the example for how to treat customers but when you flip that to say the customers are the smaller companies, Amazon completely screws the little guy over and over again. Constantly stealing ideas and creating their own "Amazon Basics" versions of the same products. On a much larger scale than what prx has done here but still agree with everything else said.
I think the main difference there is Amazon (at least to my knowledge) isn’t patenting stolen ideas so nobody can make them anymore, they’re just entering the market with their own version of the same product and competing.
This is the only place I trust to get true insight on situations like this! The fact that you get personal calls in response to your videos demonstrates how much respect and sway you have within the community. Keep up the awesome work! I fully agree with having the big companies leverage the design and innovation that small creators bring to the table. Yes, PRX put out a stellar product and did what they could to protect it legally. That's part of business sadly, but the small creators look at that product as a stepping stone and were already trying to develop new iterations with enhanced features, options, or alleviate pitfalls in original ideas from their own experience or feedback. Before grabbing pitchforks, I say the community needs to see how this develops and if PRX can make it right.
100%. All home gym companies should start thinking about companies like Beyond Power. Innovate fast is the game here. I would rather pay a few thousand for something absolutely cool and give me way better experiences than just replacing my stuff for marginally better.
Coop, love the video and a big supporter of yours but I’m curious, in lieu of everything you just said in this excellent video, why did you decide to list the PRX halo arms #3 on your list of best home gym equipment 2024? Just 4 days ago?
I would love to see a company like Rep or Rogue partner with one of these smart tech companies like Voltra and make almost like a machine ecosystem. Could have something like a belt squat stand as the base and attach things to it there. No need for weight horns or plates, some smart pulley systems to make it compact (and possibly find a way to make a negative mechanical advantage pulley), and unique attachments that connect to the device to make it an efficient ecosystem. That’d be sick
Coop> A video or two ago, you introduced some cable attachments, I think, that were made by an individual in his home workshop. I looked at his website and was really attracted by it. I live in Japan, and over several years I bought a number of cable attachments and heavy clubs from a similar person, an older man who manufactured in his one-man workshop in Shizuoka. His products were pricier than those from the major sellers, but they were unique and I really enjoy having them. He has since retired, but I am sure there are people in the US and elsewhere who are also making unique fitness products one at a time for themselves and for a small number of customers. How about making a video about some of those people sometime? You could even visit their workshops and interview them. I would love to see that video.
What companies are cooperating with creators? I have 2 inventions and hundreds of thousands followers on my socials some of which would definitely be interested in them. I just need manufacturing.
Excellent vid - great insights. I'm in a MBA program and studying business law right now. PRX is absolutely within their legal standing to do what they are doing, especially if the products they are basing their designs on are 1+ year into the commercial market. I did love Coops point that legal does not equal ethical, and clearly the home gym community has made their feelings known. Let's see what PRX does now, this is a good opportunity for them to pivot.
Bigger companies are usually more risk-adverse, and can partner with smaller companies for experimentation, proof of concept, and market testing. When big vs small see how they can offset different types of risk for each other- that’s when partnerships can form.
Looks like part of the patent can be annulled through prior art that was missed during the patent prosecution. The process to challenge the patent will be expensive. The 'correct' thing to do here is for PRX to voluntarily change their patent filing.
Open letter to GGR I have been here since the early days of GGR and always enjoyed your videos, entertaining and informative even if it was something I’d never buy. I thank you for helping me to build my garage gym, from diy, budget equipment, and suggesting marketplace, OfferUp and online sales. However, in the last year or so GGR has moved away from the everyday garage gym person to the high end name brand gym person. Gone are the days of including things like tractor supply horse stall mats, diy step ups, smaller brands and budget equipment. Now it is only Rep, Rogue, Titan and whatever big brand. Now it is only overpriced or multi-thousand dollar pieces of equipment. The heart of the channel that brought me in and had me hooked on every video drop is gone. Maybe that was the intent and part of the building process, if so I get it. If it’s the direction GGR intended to go then there is no one better than GGR to do it and wish y’all the best! Unsubscribed
I think the channel still makes sense. Since these brands have now entered the larger market for home gyms and when people search for home gym products they're likely to come across some of these brands and the more expensive items. An Area 2.0 might sound cool to a lot of people, but having channels like these could really put it into perspective on the the cost/benefit analysis that the person might overlook. When i saw the Ares 1 my first thought was "oh i need it, definitely saving up for that". Now i saw the Fringe Dane on here and my view has changed, and i want something more affordable and in theory more compact as it still leaves the rack open to walk through. I was originally looking at the erkangs and lionscool and major lutie racks on amazon because of the all in one features for cheap, but i never considered pulley ratio, attachment compatibilty, size and strength of the uprights, etc., until i came across these videos. I would need 500lbs of plates to do appropriately weighted pulldowns if i used a 2:1 ratio system. I ended up with two rep uprights to start with to later expand how i want, because their drop in dip attachments were very enticing and were better quality than others I've seen.
it does stifle, I have a cool hacksquat rack attachment that i am working on, and i am going to keep it to myself because i feel like i need ducks in a row, which means community loses out.
We're in a really interesting spot now. If PRx faces enough backlash (which I'm not sure will happen since they're such a huge company) and decides to "collaborate" with the smaller creators, is that really enough? From following this closely on social, I also don't see Vendetta backing down and collabing with them 😂
Well said Coop. I'm over PRx. I was considering the halo arms but just purchased a different brand due to the shady nature of PRx. I dodged a bullet earlier this year when I bought a Rogue Monster Lite folding rack over the PRx.
You know it's bad for a fitness manufacturer when people think more highly of Titan Fitness than you lol. Thanks for highlighting this issue to the community. I was not aware of the PRx situation, but now that I know this I will keep them blacklisted for when I'm looking to expand my home gym. My home gym is my pride and joy and I would hate to tarnish it by buying products from unethical companies
This is a good business move in that it makes them more money now by making it harder for their competition to do similar products. It's a bad business move in that it makes their customer base dislike their company and potentially avoid buying from them in the future
I want to see Bullet Proof collab with someone like Rogue or something. Their Isolator is amazing and I want to see them to have the opportunity to collaborate with a bigger company
I agree with your points Coop, couldn't have said better, what PRX did is unethical, they became world wide known for lacking principles or morals, it is sad to see companies like this to exist.
To me, it wasn't even the patent thing with PRX that got so many upset. It was the way PRX came out with the most smug, arrogant video I could ever imagine. They were just talking down to everyone like they were so much better than everyone else.
Rogue is about to do the same thing with their FM HR (not the twin). They're trying to patent the pulley configuration that allows for 1:1 and 2:1 on a single stack but it's the same as the BoS All-in-One Trainer. Right after going after BoS for other patent infringing designs.
"Hire someone who use the product"... yeah, Rogue and Pepin don't necessarily do this for all their products. The new Macebell from Rogue is clearly an attempt to get into this market, but it's so unbalanced that you wonder if they ever hold a real Mace into their hand before making their product. Same for the Fast Kettlebell from Pepin, it's clearly something that you can only do single arm swing with it, but nothing else.
@@BasementBrandon Although, I really like the idea of the Pepin' Fast Kettlebell, but I'm just disappointed about what it turned out to be. Also, it's 500$ only for the handle without the weights and it can go only up to 55 lbs. For about that price you could get 2 BoS Adjustable Competition KB of 70 lbs.
@@BasementBrandon RUclips deleted my previous comment (very annoying), I don't know why, but my last comment doesn't make sense without my other one... so, I'll rewrite it. Clean and Press, Get-up, Snatch, 2H Swing (you'll most likely need to keep 1 or 2 fingers off from the < 5" handle). The shape of the handle and the weights makes it so the top side of the weight digs into your forearm. Usually, with a standard handle (or better, a competition handle), you can rest the bell comfortably on your forearm and even keep your hand open with a straight wrist. The main error most of the manufacturers of adjustable kettlebells do is reinventing the handle and/or the bell by ignoring how it's used... Pepin did both.
@@BasementBrandon RUclips (or Coop?) deleted my comment again (seriously, what the hell?). There's my third attempt at answering your question (with some edit to see if it'll stick). No, that's the thing, I was about to, but I've looked at the videos posted by Pepin on their Insta and came to conclusion that I've laid in my previous comment. I used to own several adjustable KB handles. KettleGryp (too wide for 2H Swing and can't do Double anything without banging the loadable DBs, but it's alright depending on the size of the plates you use for for Get-up, Clean, etc.). Kensui EZ-BELL (pretty much only good for Swing, otherwise, the grip is too close to the weights and too narrow, you can't keep a straight wrist). NewMe Fitness Handle (quite good for Swing, but that's the only thing you can do with it and you can go heavy as well, up to 107.5 lbs with 4x25 lbs). I kept the NewMe Fitness Handle and I have several fixed KBs. I was thinking about replacing those with the Pepin handle, but it won't work. If I were Pepin, I would have made the handle similar to a competition one and design some incremental plates with an edge mimicking the top part of a bell (ex.: 2.5 lbs, 5 lbs and 10 lbs). Similar to what BoS did but without the casing.
Idk, personally I don't really see an issue. Seems like 2 small companies came up with 2 different innovative improvements, and then PRX developed a finished product combining the 2 improvements then patented it so others can't copy the exact same design. Don't see the issue myself.
People can hate on prx and I get it but it’s what everyone wants. A company to finally stop the games and just have every option in one. None of the multiple company janky piece together stuff. Right or wrong idk but there needs to be more of it.
I think they should have spent their resources on a slim 1:1 300lbs lat/low row instead... A product that doesnt currently exist. That would be innovative.
I would think prior artwork and products on the market would make this patent not go through. Its already existing in the market, therefore they didnt create the idea.
Between the ludicrous price (that according to Coop was even higher before he told them to lower it), the patent screwing smaller companies, and their response, I really have no interest in PRX gear. Couldn't have debuted a great product in a worse way IMO.
Provided some portion of viewers are possible prx customers, does this video negatively impact sales? What would prx say about this video. I recall this channel praising the lever arms in question. Is the purpose of this video to walk back the praise ?
The product itself is awesome. PRx makes some really good equipment and they have a lot of innovative designs. This video wasn't a review of the product, but a response to some of the controversy. - Coop
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Coop has really grown into a tour de force for the industry. Not only does he offer companies great ideas which they integrate, but now he is doing public service announcements and giving lesson on ethical behavior. Good to see moral people with a good value system In a position such as his. Keep it up.
Great video, Coop. To note, Fringe has been collaborating with creators almost since our start. And currently we dev'd the Mammoth Belt Squat with Kaizen and we are working with many other creators. As another Austin company says- Juntos es mejor- Together is better!
Definitely should have mentioned you guys! My apologies, you all have done great on that front. - Coop
PK...miss your videos. Haven't seen any lately.
completely random story, but i started working out a few months ago. i did a bit of research as someone completely new to home gyms & fitness, and thought loadable dumbbells were the best bang for my buck, so i of course wanted to find the cheapest pair of loadable olympic dumbbells, and i think at the time it was the titan dumbbells.
Before purchasing, i decided to check facebook marketplace to see if there were any deals, and i found dumbbells from a new company i had never heard of - fringe sport.
i tried looking up the dumbbells, and found a few videos praising them and other videos talking about how things like the ability for the handles to spins etc were. I was so excited to get started. I had four 5 pound weight plates, so 10lbs per dumbbell, and with the 15lbs of the dumbbells, i thought it was perfect and drove to pick them up. i got there, the guy selling them had just dropped a ton of money on a set of ironmasters, and was really nice showing me some of the stuff he had, what it did, how it worked, etc and before you know it i paid and was on my way home.
i get home, i slap my 5pounders on each side of each dummbell thinking 25lbs was a good starting point, and thats when i realized it.
THESE WERE MASSIVE. WAY BIGGER THAN ANY DUMBBELL IVE HELD BEFORE.
20.5" of intimidation.
some exercises were awkward. i dont have a real bench yet so when i do things like skullcrushers i bang them on the ground
ive hit my ceiling a few times when doing various standing exercises. ive even hit my own noggin a few times
i thought about trying to sell them and buying a pair of 15" loadables which seemed to be more geared toward a beginner, but in the end ive decided to stick with them. ive been enjoying seeing the (limited) progress as i slowly add more weight to them and some exercises like lateral raises are perfect for me to do with the empty 15lb dumbbells.
im not sure if ill ever be able to fill out the entire dumbbell, but its definitely a fun starting point
thanks
PRX does this because they know once they lock down a patent, its almost impossible for the small creator to afford a lawsuit to challenge it.
Anyone who have prior art on the tech PRX has now filed a patente application should publish it to the public domain. That way the patent becomes basically unenforceable.
Bingo
There's no requirement for competitors to challenge PRX patents. PRX has to take the initiative to sue infringers. Yes, PRX can write mean threatening letters, but that's part of doing business in the US of A.
For a competitor to infringe, their product must include ALL elements of any one claim paragraph in a PRX issued patent - one feature isn't enough.
@@johnnysquiretube sounds like you might want to go brush up on 37 CFR 1.510 Request for ex parte reexamination and 37 CFR 1.56 Duty to disclose information material to patentability.
Then go see the several instances of prior art of the Kaizen and Vendetta mounts being used “in combination” posted by Kaizen DIY Gym on YT over a year before PRx filed but yet weren’t disclosed in the patent application.
@@TinyTimmy85 I'm well aware of both. Neither means that competitors are OBLIGED to challenge the patents to sell competing products if they believe the patents are invalid over the prior art. Do you believe you understand the point of novelty in the PRX claims? What is it?
Rep partnering with Pepin to make the Reppin got me to the point of purchasing a set of 125s. It also got me looking at a functional trainer from them, and a bench. So yeah, I'd agree that partnering and showing good faith goes a hell of a long way in this space and overall, it's way more beneficial for a company to do it this way. To be honest, I'll probably just avoid prx after seeing this even though I doubt that was your point coop, but it leaves a bully taste in my mouth and I can't stand that shit from companies. They knew exactly what they were doing patenting. Definitely unethical even though it was legal.
Are we certain what they did is legal and would win in court? The whole point of the gym pin was that people would use it on their jammer arms. There is even video evidence that PRX admitted taking the designs from everyone and implementing as a single unit. The point of a patent is that you come up with something new. They did not.
REP totally got me with the Reppins. I have a fixed set of DB's that I'm giving up, for the Reppins. And since I was in the market for an FT, I went ahead and purchased the Arcadia at the same time. It's a great functional trainer.....very high quality. I also bought a Double Black Diamond. I have lots of nice power bars, but figured, eh....why not....already buying all this other stuff. Before any of this, I didn't really care about REP and now I own some of their more expesive items.
@@DoubtingThomasTestsEverything Not really the point of the patent. It's more to make money off of everyone who wants to use it in their products, which is not unlike the the trademarking of names, etc. It's not necessarily about getting there first or being the one who came up with it first. The phrase that I like about taking from everyone is something I hear Jim Cornette (former wrestling manager and territory owner say) "Stealing from one source is called plagiarism. Stealing from multiple sources is called research." The lesson is simple: Until you are ready to unveil your product, keep it behind closed doors.
Thanks for your commentary on this Coop. I appreciate your point of view and agree 100%
PRX is working with Kevin O’Leary…the same guy who was a paid spokesperson for Sam Bankman-Fried at FTX. He is super trustworthy. 😂
Yikes!
Dude when I saw that they were working with Kevin, I was like “makes sense, that explains a lot”
I really wanted to buy the PRx Halo arms. But I’m not willing to support them at this stage. I hope they can improve their ethics.
Based on the guy who promotes Rep who steals rogues rack sizes???
Don’t buy PRX. Thanks for the tip!
- Steal designs
- Work with Kevin O’Leary
- Patent everything as their own because smaller companies can’t afford to fight back.
It’s like a trainwreck of just bad.
Capitalism at its finest. Boycott the business to make them pivot. I’d love nothing more than to see them panic from a loss in audience
@@AvidStressEnjoyer Honestly, just working with Kevin O'Leary is a big red flag. He's such a tool that only cares about money, doesn't give a shit about the business or the customers.
For non-Canadians who may not know, he's sort of a more competent Trump but even more of an asshole. Any business that courts him as an investor makes me really question their ethics. It's doing a deal with the devil as they'll be forced to choose profits over customers every time.
All my homies hate PRX.
This isn’t the first time that RPx has stolen a design from a smaller company design and patented it as their own. They did it with their Rip Cord cable attachment (patent number 11872436).
They straight copied Surplus Strength’s UPS high and low pulley and patented “their own” design 10 months after Surplus posted it on instagram. Conveniently PRx didn’t cite Surplus as prior art. But hey we’re too dumb to understand prior art because it’s “hard to understand”.
Support small businesses!
The Rogue and Mutant Metals example is a good one for how a bad decision gets rectified
Spot on. This is a top-notch ggr video. The PRx thing needed to be called out, and hopefully, others will think twice. The community needs to police its self to keep it healthy and moving forward. The backlash is an example of how we can all come together to keep thing honest without the need of lawyers.
I think PRX did a great job of pricing themselves out of the majority of the Home Gym Market.
PRx absolutely does not care about their customers. They would rather see money in their pocket than to satisfy their customers.
@@jjgonz98 If you don't satisfy your customers.....how will you make the money to place in your pocket????
What hill are you willing to die on?
PRX: Jammer arms
😂
Wild 😂
I think the $1500 price tag for the PRx Halo Arms is more of a deterrent for people buying them. The blowback from the Kaizen claims just fanned the flames.
Patent costs start at about $15,000 to $30,000. That's not cheap for a small builder like Kaizen. What PRX did was simply unethical and because of that I won't buy from them unless they make amends.
You don’t need a patent. You just need to be able to demonstrate prior art showing the idea isn’t new and therefore can’t be patented.
This isn’t the first time that RPx has blatantly copied a smaller companies design and patented it as their own. They did it with their Rip Cord cable attachment. Coping Surplus Strength’s UPS high and low pulley. They patented “their” design 10 months after Surplus posted it on their instagram page. Support small businesses!
Fuck PRX got it
As an engineer, owner of a company that designs home gym equipment, and a design patent holder, I must comment on this. Investing in a utility patent is very expensive and hard to obtain. Most people think it provides bulletproof protection for their products, but it does not. Lawsuits are very expensive and lengthy; at least I heard this firsthand. I agree with Coop that partnership is the best long-term option. The world market is big enough for all of us, and we all need to balance healthy growth rates and not be too greedy. I would always recommend design patents over utility patents. They prevent other companies from copying the exact same look, allow you to have a unique design, and distinguish you in the market, all while being much cheaper
Very helpful! Just curious, what equipment have you designed. I love to meet the engineers and inventors behind the equipment. - Coop
Hi, I'm happy if I contributed some insights. I have a young company, less than 2 years old. Before this, I spent 9 years in a different industry. I designed some connection mechanisms for a few prototypes, like a Smith machine, nothing to brag about, for some individuals. But then I decided to make my own product because the first option didn't pay enough to live on 😅. It's a foldable flat weight bench with the minimum possible height. I patented the design to ensure no one else had the same design. I will try to sell locally. FYI, I'm from Croatia, Europe. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm not as experienced in this field as engineers from big companies, but I have experience in production and I'm passionate about fitness!😀
@@nikobolanca5707 That's awesome! Would love to see the design. Message me on IG - Coop
As the old saying goes, "Respect is given; trust is earned, and loyalty is demonstrated. To lose one is to risk losing all three." I no longer respect Prx. Thus, I no longer trust PRX or will be loyal to it by buying any more exercise equipment from it.
Cool. What else?
@@RTB_1234 PrX has a big respect, trust, and loyalty problem of its own creation on its hands.
I would love to see a collab video between Coop and Gluck.
That patent will be rejected, because it is not new or innovative. If the other companies have proof that they already had these products before the patent, they have to raise an objection to this patent and it will not be granted.
that would require legal fees kaizen by himself likely won't be able to afford
@@onomatopoeia6043 Kaizen is not infringing the patent of PRX. The patent is for a leveler arm (handle assembly) with a trigger lock. Kaizen makes an adapter for a leveler arm. So the first claim of the patent is already invalid for the product of kaizen. PRX patented the combination these in one product.
@@teunvereijken7086I thought you couldn’t patent a combination of previous items. The classic example being you could patent a pencil, and patent an eraser, but can’t patent a stick that combines the two.
Exactly. Even if it is granted if someone can demonstrate prior art existed the patent will be nullified.
I said it before and I’ll say it again. It’s not illegal for your buddy to start dating your ex, but that doesn’t make it right!
I was so excited about the PRX lever arms and was about to pull the trigger on the pre order but when I saw what the community had to say about their duplicitous actions, I decided to wait. I hope they are able to resolve this.
Coop take down the review of the PRX lever arms. Let the homegym community collectively boycott them and send a message.
I agree with the sentiment, but there might be contractural obligations behind the scenes that could make it tricky.
Don’t be a Karen
Coop is getting praise but he wasn't too harsh with his criticism of PRx. He should stand firmly with the lifter community on this one instead of playing mediator.
Abmat also looks like they’ve got a healthy collab program too. Found myself scrubbing through their site just off curiosity about what unique solutions they’ve created. It definitely gave me positive vibes around them after seeing all that stuff.
Excellent lecture on business ethics. Preach on Rev...
As a small manufacturer, I support this message.
Coop. That was positively statesman-like. Well done.
Abmat is the best for this reason, Im glad I took my product to them 👏
The part about hiring Engineers that use the thing 🎯🎯🎯 - Nothing worse than when you attempt to use a machine at a gym and it's obvious within seconds that the people that created the machine do not actually lift.
I would like to see a collaboration with
Flesh Light and Fat Gripz
Great video, Coop. Spot on.
Reading all the comments makes me happy to be part of this home gym community. Seems like we all stand with the little guys and with what’s right!! Not that I would want PRX to fail but I don’t think that this was handled right! And that video with the “explanation” was basically a slap in the face. That rep example is epic. Seems like rep is always for the WIN. - just giving my two cents. ✌️
Great comments and recommendations for companies pairing up for innovation and recognition for all companies.
The Reppins are my next purchase .
it's weird people sit on the fence over these things......'I'll buy that someday.' The longer you wait, the longer you're going to wait for them to ship. I think the pre-orders are already pushed out to November. You scrubs can't come up with $1,200???? Broke asses
I've bought exercise equipment from PrX before, but I won't in the future. Ethics matter to me. If PrX treats its competitors this way, this raises the issue of how will PrX treat its customers in its quest for profit.
Coop, thanks for using your platform to stand up for the little guy!
Great video. I find it odd that he uses Amazon as the example for how to treat customers but when you flip that to say the customers are the smaller companies, Amazon completely screws the little guy over and over again. Constantly stealing ideas and creating their own "Amazon Basics" versions of the same products. On a much larger scale than what prx has done here but still agree with everything else said.
I think the main difference there is Amazon (at least to my knowledge) isn’t patenting stolen ideas so nobody can make them anymore, they’re just entering the market with their own version of the same product and competing.
Amazon is more like private/white labeling with their own brands.
This is the only place I trust to get true insight on situations like this! The fact that you get personal calls in response to your videos demonstrates how much respect and sway you have within the community. Keep up the awesome work! I fully agree with having the big companies leverage the design and innovation that small creators bring to the table. Yes, PRX put out a stellar product and did what they could to protect it legally. That's part of business sadly, but the small creators look at that product as a stepping stone and were already trying to develop new iterations with enhanced features, options, or alleviate pitfalls in original ideas from their own experience or feedback. Before grabbing pitchforks, I say the community needs to see how this develops and if PRX can make it right.
REP is the only one doing this right. I stopped buying from Rogue and PRX for this reason.
Could you imagine how much your brand would rise if a large manufacturer had a "Creator Beta Test Group" that could reach out to the YT reviewers!?
PRX needs to cut those men a check, and I will not buy from them until they fix it, and advocate for everyone I know to not to as well.
Great video! This needed to be said 👌🏼👍🏼
thank you for standing up and speaking for the small companies.
We need more people like coop! In the world! Kudos to GGR to have a stance on the issue! This video is pure wisdom!
Nestle out here catching strays 😂😂
Coop for the community. Love to see it.
Big respect for this video Coop!
100%. All home gym companies should start thinking about companies like Beyond Power. Innovate fast is the game here. I would rather pay a few thousand for something absolutely cool and give me way better experiences than just replacing my stuff for marginally better.
So great to see Coop standing for the community
Coop, love the video and a big supporter of yours but I’m curious, in lieu of everything you just said in this excellent video, why did you decide to list the PRX halo arms #3 on your list of best home gym equipment 2024? Just 4 days ago?
thanks Coop! started my home gym around 1 year ago don't own any PRX and guess I wont be adding anything from them anytime soon!
I would love to see a company like Rep or Rogue partner with one of these smart tech companies like Voltra and make almost like a machine ecosystem. Could have something like a belt squat stand as the base and attach things to it there. No need for weight horns or plates, some smart pulley systems to make it compact (and possibly find a way to make a negative mechanical advantage pulley), and unique attachments that connect to the device to make it an efficient ecosystem. That’d be sick
tell me you HGD without telling me you HGD
Coop> A video or two ago, you introduced some cable attachments, I think, that were made by an individual in his home workshop. I looked at his website and was really attracted by it. I live in Japan, and over several years I bought a number of cable attachments and heavy clubs from a similar person, an older man who manufactured in his one-man workshop in Shizuoka. His products were pricier than those from the major sellers, but they were unique and I really enjoy having them. He has since retired, but I am sure there are people in the US and elsewhere who are also making unique fitness products one at a time for themselves and for a small number of customers. How about making a video about some of those people sometime? You could even visit their workshops and interview them. I would love to see that video.
Wasn't one of the issues here that they actually reached out to PRX to work together, they said no, but then took the idea anyway
What companies are cooperating with creators? I have 2 inventions and hundreds of thousands followers on my socials some of which would definitely be interested in them. I just need manufacturing.
This is a lesson on good ethical and moral practice in business as a whole
PRX is dead to the vast majority of the home gym community now.
Good video Coop. Good to hear your side of this. Totally agree that PRX has made a pretty awful decision hete
Hope this video blows up. This needs more attention
Excellent vid - great insights. I'm in a MBA program and studying business law right now. PRX is absolutely within their legal standing to do what they are doing, especially if the products they are basing their designs on are 1+ year into the commercial market. I did love Coops point that legal does not equal ethical, and clearly the home gym community has made their feelings known. Let's see what PRX does now, this is a good opportunity for them to pivot.
Bigger companies are usually more risk-adverse, and can partner with smaller companies for experimentation, proof of concept, and market testing. When big vs small see how they can offset different types of risk for each other- that’s when partnerships can form.
I double the don't buy PRX comment. Shameful!
09:10 Apparently back then Titan also stole Coop's moustache! 😂
I'm actually digging the mustache. Mustaches are coming back strong and COOP is leading the way!!
Looks like part of the patent can be annulled through prior art that was missed during the patent prosecution. The process to challenge the patent will be expensive. The 'correct' thing to do here is for PRX to voluntarily change their patent filing.
Top tier content. Nice work Coop.
Open letter to GGR
I have been here since the early days of GGR and always enjoyed your videos, entertaining and informative even if it was something I’d never buy. I thank you for helping me to build my garage gym, from diy, budget equipment, and suggesting marketplace, OfferUp and online sales.
However, in the last year or so GGR has moved away from the everyday garage gym person to the high end name brand gym person. Gone are the days of including things like tractor supply horse stall mats, diy step ups, smaller brands and budget equipment. Now it is only Rep, Rogue, Titan and whatever big brand. Now it is only overpriced or multi-thousand dollar pieces of equipment. The heart of the channel that brought me in and had me hooked on every video drop is gone. Maybe that was the intent and part of the building process, if so I get it. If it’s the direction GGR intended to go then there is no one better than GGR to do it and wish y’all the best!
Unsubscribed
I think the channel still makes sense. Since these brands have now entered the larger market for home gyms and when people search for home gym products they're likely to come across some of these brands and the more expensive items. An Area 2.0 might sound cool to a lot of people, but having channels like these could really put it into perspective on the the cost/benefit analysis that the person might overlook. When i saw the Ares 1 my first thought was "oh i need it, definitely saving up for that". Now i saw the Fringe Dane on here and my view has changed, and i want something more affordable and in theory more compact as it still leaves the rack open to walk through. I was originally looking at the erkangs and lionscool and major lutie racks on amazon because of the all in one features for cheap, but i never considered pulley ratio, attachment compatibilty, size and strength of the uprights, etc., until i came across these videos. I would need 500lbs of plates to do appropriately weighted pulldowns if i used a 2:1 ratio system. I ended up with two rep uprights to start with to later expand how i want, because their drop in dip attachments were very enticing and were better quality than others I've seen.
it does stifle, I have a cool hacksquat rack attachment that i am working on, and i am going to keep it to myself because i feel like i need ducks in a row, which means community loses out.
@Coop do you think the PRx patent will prevent Bulletproof from releasing their new jammer arms that they announced were coming several months ago?
If it interferes with the patent probably
We're in a really interesting spot now. If PRx faces enough backlash (which I'm not sure will happen since they're such a huge company) and decides to "collaborate" with the smaller creators, is that really enough? From following this closely on social, I also don't see Vendetta backing down and collabing with them 😂
Well said Coop. I'm over PRx. I was considering the halo arms but just purchased a different brand due to the shady nature of PRx. I dodged a bullet earlier this year when I bought a Rogue Monster Lite folding rack over the PRx.
You know it's bad for a fitness manufacturer when people think more highly of Titan Fitness than you lol. Thanks for highlighting this issue to the community. I was not aware of the PRx situation, but now that I know this I will keep them blacklisted for when I'm looking to expand my home gym. My home gym is my pride and joy and I would hate to tarnish it by buying products from unethical companies
This is a good business move in that it makes them more money now by making it harder for their competition to do similar products. It's a bad business move in that it makes their customer base dislike their company and potentially avoid buying from them in the future
Coop, you taking the “Magnum” to a full handlebar? Still RUclips’s best stache!
I want to see Bullet Proof collab with someone like Rogue or something. Their Isolator is amazing and I want to see them to have the opportunity to collaborate with a bigger company
I agree with your points Coop, couldn't have said better, what PRX did is unethical, they became world wide known for lacking principles or morals, it is sad to see companies like this to exist.
To me, it wasn't even the patent thing with PRX that got so many upset. It was the way PRX came out with the most smug, arrogant video I could ever imagine. They were just talking down to everyone like they were so much better than everyone else.
Rogue is about to do the same thing with their FM HR (not the twin). They're trying to patent the pulley configuration that allows for 1:1 and 2:1 on a single stack but it's the same as the BoS All-in-One Trainer. Right after going after BoS for other patent infringing designs.
Coop’s handlebars shall be respected!
If it can be proven that someone else was selling this to the public before April 2024 then this patent can be invalidated pretty easily.
"Hire someone who use the product"... yeah, Rogue and Pepin don't necessarily do this for all their products. The new Macebell from Rogue is clearly an attempt to get into this market, but it's so unbalanced that you wonder if they ever hold a real Mace into their hand before making their product. Same for the Fast Kettlebell from Pepin, it's clearly something that you can only do single arm swing with it, but nothing else.
What can’t you do with the kettlebells that you’re trying to?
@@BasementBrandon Although, I really like the idea of the Pepin' Fast Kettlebell, but I'm just disappointed about what it turned out to be. Also, it's 500$ only for the handle without the weights and it can go only up to 55 lbs. For about that price you could get 2 BoS Adjustable Competition KB of 70 lbs.
@@BasementBrandon RUclips deleted my previous comment (very annoying), I don't know why, but my last comment doesn't make sense without my other one... so, I'll rewrite it.
Clean and Press, Get-up, Snatch, 2H Swing (you'll most likely need to keep 1 or 2 fingers off from the < 5" handle). The shape of the handle and the weights makes it so the top side of the weight digs into your forearm. Usually, with a standard handle (or better, a competition handle), you can rest the bell comfortably on your forearm and even keep your hand open with a straight wrist. The main error most of the manufacturers of adjustable kettlebells do is reinventing the handle and/or the bell by ignoring how it's used... Pepin did both.
@@dan-osman Thanks, do you own one currently? I have noticed a few of these in use, but not all.
@@BasementBrandon RUclips (or Coop?) deleted my comment again (seriously, what the hell?). There's my third attempt at answering your question (with some edit to see if it'll stick).
No, that's the thing, I was about to, but I've looked at the videos posted by Pepin on their Insta and came to conclusion that I've laid in my previous comment. I used to own several adjustable KB handles.
KettleGryp (too wide for 2H Swing and can't do Double anything without banging the loadable DBs, but it's alright depending on the size of the plates you use for for Get-up, Clean, etc.).
Kensui EZ-BELL (pretty much only good for Swing, otherwise, the grip is too close to the weights and too narrow, you can't keep a straight wrist).
NewMe Fitness Handle (quite good for Swing, but that's the only thing you can do with it and you can go heavy as well, up to 107.5 lbs with 4x25 lbs).
I kept the NewMe Fitness Handle and I have several fixed KBs. I was thinking about replacing those with the Pepin handle, but it won't work.
If I were Pepin, I would have made the handle similar to a competition one and design some incremental plates with an edge mimicking the top part of a bell (ex.: 2.5 lbs, 5 lbs and 10 lbs). Similar to what BoS did but without the casing.
The original designer has prior art and even if they get their patent, they’ll have to successfully defend it.
Can you review the Quantum Trainer Pro 2? From the looks of it uses arms which rotate 360 degrees. Thank you.
Completely agree. Legal doesn't exactly mean ethical. So remove their video.
Idk, personally I don't really see an issue. Seems like 2 small companies came up with 2 different innovative improvements, and then PRX developed a finished product combining the 2 improvements then patented it so others can't copy the exact same design. Don't see the issue myself.
The most important thing is the bigger stache is 🔥
Gonna by from PRX once their stuff goes on sale from this vid
Excellent discussion.
Yeah, my big take away with this whole thing is I'm never buying PRX.
People can hate on prx and I get it but it’s what everyone wants. A company to finally stop the games and just have every option in one. None of the multiple company janky piece together stuff. Right or wrong idk but there needs to be more of it.
The number one factor that prevents lawsuits in the medical profession is whether or not your patients like you. Not a lot of love for PRX these days.
Don’t care. Buy whatever works for you. Functionality and price over everyone’s feelings. 💪
I think they should have spent their resources on a slim 1:1 300lbs lat/low row instead... A product that doesnt currently exist. That would be innovative.
Somebody needs to partner with Beyond Power on the Voltra to get the price down
I would think prior artwork and products on the market would make this patent not go through. Its already existing in the market, therefore they didnt create the idea.
The stache has leveled up.
I have no opinion but well said
Between the ludicrous price (that according to Coop was even higher before he told them to lower it), the patent screwing smaller companies, and their response, I really have no interest in PRX gear. Couldn't have debuted a great product in a worse way IMO.
Provided some portion of viewers are possible prx customers, does this video negatively impact sales? What would prx say about this video. I recall this channel praising the lever arms in question. Is the purpose of this video to walk back the praise ?
The product itself is awesome. PRx makes some really good equipment and they have a lot of innovative designs. This video wasn't a review of the product, but a response to some of the controversy. - Coop
I won't purchase anything PRX if I can help it. Just spent $7k with another company.
Yep, thats y im a huge fan of the peppins. Im waiting to buy my 85pounders but once i get the wife's approval ill be buying!