@@JakeandJoelareMagic while harsh in his take, he has a point. Investing in magic is a terrible idea unless you are buying reserved list cards. It's a very unstable market and these bans have just shown a whole group of players that it can happen at any given time. After collecting, buying, selling and trading for over 25 years I've seen it happen with power creep, modern and legacy bannings, and wizards random urge to reprint cards into oblivion. Also I'm baffled how no one thought "hmm should I spend this much money for a card that's most viable use is in a variant competitive version of a casual format that's ban list is based on a philosophy of a non competitive experience?"
@@metalthrashingnerdpodcast9864 Yeah. They already mentioned that this will probably teach some people not to invest in MTG products. Outstanding move.
@@JakeandJoelareMagic He is a jerk but this should serve as lesson to those who treated magic as an investment. Buy the cards you like at a price you're ok with if it hits zero. That being said the way they banned is pretty unhinge and i understand the frustration especially since the RC knows how WOTC has been fostering investing in card mentality.
I hope that it will send a message to people that only see investments in those cards. this is a collecting and playable card game, not a speculation market. We shouldn't pay that much to play the game.
My main thought is that I'm never going to buy an expensive card again, and if I want to use them I'm switching to proxies only. I pulled a Jeweled Lotus from a pack around a year ago and my brother got me a Dockside as a birthday gift, so both of those memories are a little bit soured by this experience. I also pulled a List Ancient Tomb a couple years ago and with this ban, I have to assume that it's on the chopping block soon too, since it matches the profile of their explanation for why the other fast mana cards were banned, and unlike Sol Ring, it's a rare and expensive card.
Yeah I pulled Fury nice it got banned I'm really against ban unless card are hyper annoying but then first Restrict to 1 and Commander I honestly dont care if cards is op or not there
@@delailama736 If you want to compete against the other decks using the OP expensive cards then you need to run them as well if you don’t care about winning then it doesn’t matter but pretty much everyone who plays Cedh wants to win. Also there is always the argument just to proxy but if you are someone who just can’t stand the thought up putting fake cards in your deck then you have to get the expensive cards.
As a budget player and a financial analyst, its been interesting to watch the meltdown across the community when their artificially inflated investments have their bubble "pop." I don't blame people at all for going to proxying or other means of protecting their value. Hopefully some people learned lessons about smart and healthy investing practices.
The thing is the players upset weren't buying them as an "investment" they were playing the cards in their deck they're mad because the cards cost alot of money to play. Imagine buying a 100$ game on xbox only for the game to suddenly lose support and not work anymore. You'd be pretty mad about it. The other thing is things like crypt and fast mana people are pretty intelligent with when to pull "that" deck out. The game is good at policing itself to match everybody's deck levels. If a player is using a precon typically people aren't whipping out their deck that runs fast mana and they match the other players power level at the table the best they can. The bans (except for Nadu) were unnecessary. Mana crypt has been in the format since its inception it's never been a problem really, I've never seen anybody crying for it to be banned.
Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus were too expensive for me to play anyway, so I didn't lose out on those, Dockside didn't fit my play style and everyone knew Nadu was a mistake as soon as it was spoiled. Ain't no thing for me.
@@Janbo.C137Proxying (like they said) skips the limited availability problem so I don't think they care lol why would they play chess? It was a comparison to another game with varying game pieces and how that game doesn't have ridiculously expensive pieces Limited availability is one of the worst parts of the game. We fool ourselves into thinking that 10 cent pieces of cardboard are worth hundreds of dollars, and wotc loves this because people buy their overpriced crap and let them keep making money off of artificial scarcity. Proxying is the way to go, it makes the game accessible. I'd rather play against someone and see their deckbuilding choices and playstyle, not how deep their pockets are.
@@Transformers4444 Ok. Try again when you have learned what a TCG is and how value is created. The concept of money would be a good starting point. Best of luck.
Completely agree with Josh when he said: Bans shouldnt be made when people arent split up like this one. Bans should be when a major problem with the format is located and the vast majority agreed with that ban. Nothing like this out of nowhere ban of staples. Cmon…
They could have preserved the value of these cards and preserved the casual gameplay experience by simply announcing CEDH will now be a separate format.
I think this hits harder than it should because the community is so against proxies. The rules committee sets such strict standards for play and can choose whatever they want. They are not regulated by WotC and lost Sheldon last year. cEDH proxy everything and even allow it to be tournament legal. Another hot take is that they should have a "banned as commander" list separately from outright banned.
Anyone who is mad at the rules committee is entirely missing the point this is 100% on wizard's shoulders for designing cards specifically to break formats to sell sets
Ah yes, Mana Crypt. A card famously made 29 years ago to sell to the Commander players that didn’t exist yet. Look, I agree with you on the other 3, but banning a card that is older than the format doesn’t quite line up there. Mana Crypt wasn’t a problem for 99.99% of players, and that’s pretty obvious from it existing since day 1…
@@cowman22ish that is true, but the card is also collectible because of its age and lack of overall reprints. It’s not unreasonable to think it could have been appealing even without commander. It would have been MUCH less appealing, but I doubt anyone will argue that Mana Crypt is the only one of these 4 cards that is still going to have some worth after this. Both momentarily and just for collections.
We need to sue the rules committee. It’s the only way. There are so many less competitive cedh decks now it’s not right! This band was purely to send a message to anybody who plays cedh or is just a collector. You can basically say that the rules committee stole well over $20 million from the community.
I learned after dropping 2 bills on Borderless Ugin, just months before a very similar printing was released, that spending that much on a card is dumb. I'm glad I only got Dockside ages ago, and a pretty good deal on Lotus. Having all these reprints and special versions less than a year ago too... Ouch. I'm torn, but could've seen it coming. Only really changes if your playgroup agrees, though...
Ask yourself this: If they released Commander Masters 2 in the near future, containing reprints of Thassa's Oracle, Mana Vault, Rhystic Study, Chrome Mox, and Mox Opal, would you consider buying it? If the answer is no, then Wizards has a serious problem on their hands. People aren't stupid, and if you spit in their face and take them for a fool, they aren't gonna be keen on buying your product in the future. This decision will ripple through game stores and go down as a true business blunder if Wizards doesn't do something to restore consumer confidence. The banlist is a marketing tool, after all, and if it hurts the most passionate players of your game, things aren't gonna end well.
The cope from the people who are mad about this is hilarious. Sucks to be a store, but even as someone who lost about $500 from the bans, how is it not clear that this is better for the format? All the whales FINALLY wanting to proxy is hilarious though. Funny that it took their playthings getting banned to realize they can simply draw on basics and no one will gaf.
I bought a few collector boxes for a hunt of the mana crypt and jeweled lotus in the last 4 months. I was lucky to pull one of each, but now I will just proxy cards that are worth more than $20. I can support my LGS. Especially for pre-release, but I won't go crazy with collector boxes anymore...
@vitorgomes6762 I don't stack my deck or fake shuffle. I have been playing since 1997 without buying any proxies. I finally decide to not spend for over priced cards that would just drop in value in a couple of months. Aren't all cards just cardboard. The token cards we used are technically proxy cards anyway. At my LGS some kids around 12 use proxies (dry erase), and we all cheer them on because we want new players to feel welcome. Sorry you feel this way.
@vitorgomes6762 I proxy as well as my friends do. Sometimes, we don't want to spend 40+ bux on cards that will potentially get banned now. But you calling us that, your the type that don't have the courage or convictions to say it to people's face. Rather easy to hide behind the keyboard/phone.
Simple solution. Ban everything. Go full scorched Earth. Just go to your locals and just stare down at each for a riveting game of EDH until the last one blinks.
I own a Jeweled Lotus and a Dockside Extortionist. I got them for my last birthday and wanted to use them primarily to make slower decks work in a casual kind of game, e. g. in high cmc decks like dragon typal. The loss of value is a bit annoying, but I think I'm okay with the bans. I mean I don't play in sanctioned tournaments (are there any for commander?) and you can still play the cards privately. Edit: I think it might be a good middle way to set a rule 0 that Dockside may not be used to combo off with cards like Deadeye Navigator or Chthonian Nightmare and that cards like Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus may only be used in decks with above average cmcs. That way a one-sided gameplay could be rendered less likely. I mean whenever I played Miirym, I would be killed before I could even bring my first dragon into play. I don't want to play unfairly, I just want to participate and develop my game.
I said it before and i'll say it again, after these bans I'm not buying staples that are higher than $20 anymore, seems nothing is safe after seeing all of these fast manna bans.
Pretty much nothing should cost significantly more than that if it's in sets currently in print. If it does, that should be your clue the card is busted.
Understandable. But, that's seems similar to those who avoid relationships to avoid the possibility of being hurt. Those people still can have a level of contentment. But not really experiencing life. Magic is just a game. Many love it. It's a big part of their lives. I've met many friends through the game. It's sad to see the game that we love [seemingly] trying to hurt us and make us not be able to trust it.
Ok lmao lets not be overly dramatic XD there is an absurd amount of fun to be had in commander without dropping a thousand dollars on a deck. My favorite commander deck costs less than a single mana crypt. I get people are butthurt over their cards losing value but the bans are all ritual-like effects which are feelsbad in casual(that said i do think there should be a separate cedh banlist tho wouldnt be mad if these were banned there too)
@@Einherjar1349 Totally agree. I own 15+ decks and not a single one has a budget over $100, and my friends and I use this as a house rule. It leads to much better gameplay in my opinion.
The problem with their vision is they even think about banning cards like Sol Ring. They might as well cancel the commander project and stick to competitive vintage and standard at this point ffs. -_-
@@darkperihellion ok but the format would benefit from a sol ring ban… it represents such insane mana acceleration that can go in any deck. The issue is that with 100 cards and only a single sol ring the odds of drawing it are relatively low but when drawn it has a disproportionate impact on the game and its pacing. And since the odds are so low to draw it in a given game you basically never end up in a game where everyone draws it so there are always players who don’t draw sol ring and feel helplessly behind the player(s) who did draw sol ring.
Thoracle honestly does have it coming, I much prefer the era of lab man as he is much more intractable, while I don't mind thoracle or even flash hulk when it was around I do get they aren't really inductive of a competitive format by being around. I would say a good benchmark to decide what is too good in terms of win con potency is doomsday as it is very threatening but not overbearing as there are plenty of things that don't win the game as concisely but are better most of the time.
^^^ This. Personally I’ve never agreed with the collectors series and the egregious pricing they’ve allowed the secondary market to curate around it. Always felt a little sleazy once WOTC started putting chase cards that weren’t even from the set in them just to drive player interest. I thought the point of a collectors set was the limited aspect of getting highly stylized version of the cards from THAT set!
I think the bans were handed poorly and personally I don't think they should have been banned. The community's poor communication with itself should have been corrected not removing cards that provide insensitive to stay in the game of magic, right now it has shaken the foundations of what this game is because it brings into question what cards are safe or not, and any experience or remotely powerful cards could be banned because they are too fast or too good, and with the constant creep in power that cards are getting doing this isn't going to solve the problem only make it worse to the point that years down the line, we look at the very real possiblity of being forced to play with only vanilla creatures, and the weakest legendary creatures around. That is how one stops power creep, remove all powerful cards. If I'm not mistaken this ban removed $128 million from the magic economy, that is a big hit to the players and local stores, it doesn't feel good.
this is a terrible precedent to set. I'm not spending a cent on magic cards unless this decision gets reneged. why spend a dime on cards when cards can be struck from our format for being "to generically good". i can accept cards that break the format. i can accept cards that create an unfun experience (stasis and Armageddon still here laughin' at that logic) but hitting fast mana? no thanks. Why ever try and optimize and improve our decks performance when the rules committee could just have a bad day and decide "you know what, ban that card. its too 'GeNeRiCaLlY gOoD'
Financially I saw a dip in my collections overall value and today it has recovered mostly due to the rise of mana vault. Probably temp gains. Playability wise I find casual commander to be rather boring. I don’t play much but cEDH is what kept me interested and what content I engaged most with on RUclips. I feel Jeweled lotus and Mana crypt bans should have been discussed openly before they happen.
I feel bad for the effect it will have on owners of special treatments and editions. These cards were way to expensive for me to play. I hope this has the effect of splitting cedh and edh. I think that would be healthy for both formats.
This was clearly Targeting the CEDH part and it is clear to me that they should stop messing with EDH and make a separate RC. EDH has always been a place where almost every card can be played. I play in a pod with high power decks and these cards are staples in most decks ( except nadu ) i am not a fan of EDH becoming another mordern or legacy with ban after ban......
Yes, I can still rule zero them, and Yes, I can still put them in my cube. I only have 1 copy of each of the Lotus, Crypt and Dockside; I wasn't planning on selling them anyway. But what it has done is make me far more reluctant to pick up any other cEDH stables that are high value, such as Ancient Tomb and Fetchlands (as I have none of those), even Mana Drain and other top tier counterspells, tutors and removal are making me nervous to pick up. All you hear are people saying "just proxy" or "just rule zero them", but that was easily done before the ban, but you didn't have as much upset.
I have a feeling they will be playable again in the future, so I would like to pick up a copy of each ( except for Nadu, which was a mistake ). But even at their current price they are way out of my budget.
From the game aspect, theese bans probably make sense. But magic always has been about the gathering. And they completely forgot about it. Collecting Magic The Gathering expensive cards now is a pretty bad decision.
It's kind of insane how much hate people are getting for being upset that their expensive staples became near worthless overnight. You know most of the people who got burned by this aren't mtg investors but people who owned a couple copies of expensive staples they enjoyed playing with. You are allowed to be upset that a committee of unaccountable people tanked the price of three of the biggest chase cards in the format with no prior warning after sitting on their hands for a decade.
This scares me not only as a player but to see buissness owner be out thousands of dollars, it makes me worry if the mox diamond, lions eye or even the dual lands could be next? Am i just gunna light my money on fire at this point. Personal opinion is to revert this next month for mana crypt and jeweled lotus. I feel This decision was made under the assumption that no one was having the conversation of what kind of game are we playing. I think its fine to shift the format but this decision has killed alot of high cmc commanders.
This is one format with its own rules committee that you don't even have to listen to if you're playing casually with friends, which is how the format was designed anyway. Dual lands are staples in legacy, and not going anywhere.
I pulled a mana crypt and was happy. Now they just canceled the value it had. So why should I bother buying other sets? They might just ban the most expensive cards in these as well. Keep in mind that they PUSHED mana crypt in lost caverns of ixalan. That was not even a year ago. Right after advertising the shit out of it they banned it. Greedy and shady shit right there.
while my collection is worth less money now, Magic should always be about accessibility and the joy of playing the game. This source of intrinsic enjoyment that we all share is corrupted by its treatment as a financial investment. $50 is still too much for any game piece
cEDH is looking to splinter off. Over 1100 people in a day joined the cEDH Advisory Group discord. Discussions have already begun about how to properly choose what qualifies someone to be nominated, eligible to be voted into the RC
After much though. Much talk amongst friends, players alike, it seems with all the financial ruin and collapse and quiltings on Magic, that through it all it seems the only real, good, or logical outcome IS that this was done for the health of the format. Bc it seems to have ruined everything but. So, maybe the RC is honest and did it for the best. It certainly makes newer commanders and cards that have a high power level harder to access early on, thus creating the return to balance--removal. Removal is the checks and balances of Magic the Gathering. Oh got a Grislebrand? Swords to Plowshares. Got a Golos, Resculpt that bisshh.
Everyone does this and magic dies. Good plan. Great way to support your community. Gonna be playing with a few friends at home in the future until y'all get bored with the game. But you'll only be out money for printing supplies.
Just imagine all the remaining collector boxes whose chase card was supposed to be jeweled lotus.. huge loss for stores and people holding sealed product:)
This has been far too small a part of the conversation. The one segment of Magic hurt the most by this isn't players with 1 copy of these cards, it is Local Game Stores left holding the bag. LGS locations already survive on ridiculously small margins on new Magic product. Singles are the solitary decent markup item when it comes to Magic for LGS locations. Now many of them are taking massive losses when simply trying to keep their single selection as expansive as possible for the benefit of their player base and to keep the lights on. That doesn't even speak to any sealed product these locations are now loosing money on, like you brought up.
@@jeremysmith4620 Historically speaking, bans of high valued cards very rarely hurt vendors outside of the short term because cards for the next most viable strategies in the format increase in price as a result of bans. e.g mana vault seeing a 30+% spike in price yesterday. If vendors are diversified enough in their singles, they should experience no hit whatsoever. With one exception... if this banning leads to a reduction in the average price of cards due to reduced consumer confidence, vendors will experience some medium-term losses that will eventually be mostly alleviated by their own expenses in purchasing cards being reduced as well. But this would be a good thing in my opinion, consumer confidence is too high, and the prices of singles do not properly reflect the risk of future devaluation.
@@jeremysmith4620is the sealed pricing built around jeweled lotus selling for like $100 though? Or was that a function of WoTC not realizing how much demand there would be? Because historically, the best cards currently in print never sold for more than $25. This was even true of black lotus way back in 1993.
Standard is no longer the most popular format in Magic: The Gathering (MTG), and interest in it is mostly limited to Magic Arena. The popularity of Standard has been overshadowed by Modern and Commander. Standard was once the most widely-played format in MTG. However, there is little interest in Standard outside of Magic Arena.
@@aunthemod thats fair, but the reason we are in this mess is because they're printing cards JUST for commander, that are highly sought after. Honestly, if they made just standard sets (yes still can have cards referencing multiple players), and then other cards filter through to other formats it would be good. It would also drive people to play standard more as well. Hell standard is better than ever, its better than Pioneer, better than modern (cheaper) and better than commander. Commander was always meant to be about janky combos and random fun stuff, never ultra efficient sources of advantage - leave that to modern/vintage. I know from experience, you buy a pack of cards for a standard set, and more often than not, there is a commander card or a reprint not valid in standard, and it turns people off playing standard. Everything you get in a standard pack should be standard legal. If we went back to that style, it would change the game up. And to be fair, the only reason why everyone is upset about these bans, is because unlike every other single ban and restricted announcement, there was 0 heads up this was gonna happen
@@casperionxnot a problem if they make cards just for commander, but if they somehow make it into standard packs, they need to be commons. The problem is no single card currently in print should command $100 price tag on the secondary market. It's understandable competitive commander players are salty they laid out that kind of cash, but the more important issue is still gameplay. And if the cards provide too significant of an advantage/make the game less fun for everyone, then it makes sense to ban them.
To be honest I am kind of fed up with any EDH bans (if it isn’t competitive EDH). I just lose money and have to change my favourite decks again and again. I had to dismantle my favourite Golos 200 card deck (I have mana and utility base and then shuffle bomb deck and randomly add it to lands and ramp/utility - that way you get new fun, bomb-heavy deck every time and when you spin Golos you always get unexpected new stuff). These bans serve no purpose - they are completely arbitrary and aren’t based on any objective reasonable data, just on what ban committee “feels like”, like - “this card is to prevalent”, this card is too annoying to play against, this is too easy to win with or smh. In EDH we have so many annoying cards, so many super-strong cards, so many prevalent cards, this is social format we can decide stuff in our playgroup. And let’s be real - pretty much no one is coming to new pot of players tying to win as fast and as dominant as possible - we all just try our ideas and certain archetypes. Was Dockside fine before, was mana crypt fine before? Why ban them now in particular??? It just looks like - they got fed up with them now and finally decided to ban them. Why do we have to listen to them??!!
They definitely were moving their stock. All 3 of these were on the game knights episode a month back of cards they were taking out of all their decks. I wonder why. Who’s to say this hasn’t been months in the works as the CRC and their friends quietly sold their stocks in these cards before the ban
@@thecolonel1457 command zone arnt on the rc. but are freinds with them in there talk about removing them they talked more about they wanted to slow there decks down but nothing about power level or the cards be at risk given the sheer cost of some cmd staples they should be put onba watch list first not out right ban. this is gonna fo to way 1 players are gonna outright complain about the rc to wizards untill wizards dose something or wizards themselves are going to do something cuase the new RC hitting cards for power level meaning all the chase cards wizards like to put in packs to sell them are at risk of becomeing basically worthless. and wotc has stated multi times commanders there cash cow format and alot of cards are being made for cmd even in sets not cmd related. rember the rc might not be run by eizards but it exists becuase they let it
I can understand the ban of mana crypt, it’s probably the best mana rock and fast mana But for me jeweled lotus makes no sense, it’s only playable in commander and they banned it… so this card is literally just a piece of paper now… also these 2 cards are extremely popular and expensive, people are trying to get them all the time. So it means that players spent money on a useless card and on a card that is not as playable as before… I don’t feel like it’s fair Specially that usually cards that are banned in commander are not banned because they are strong but because they are annoying or game breakers Commander is a game where people want to do huge plays and play powerful cards if they start to ban cards just because they are strong it means the format is gonna die I really hope they go back on their decision, at least on jeweled lotus
My biggest concern with the ban is that it may be an attempt to get more people into the format. Which is cool, more power to those who join the format because they can suddenly afford to play. But this concerns me is the fact that they may end up turning a lot of CEDH players away from the format because the suddenly can't play the game. Commander is a long game format. If you get rid of fast mana, you make the game longer and not everyone has that kind of time.
It's not likely to have a ton of impact on the median length of a game though, as there are still plenty of ways to ramp mana once the game gets going. The point of the bans was more to prevent the really short games where one player gets off to such a fast start the game is over before the other players really have a chance to do anything. And, if you don't have time for a longer game, you can always play a shorter format. It's not like you always have to stick to the same format.
Great for casusl, bad for cedh. Split the format. Cedh is the last place for high octane games without dropping a cool 1,000-1,300 bucks. Since its unsantioned proxies are okay. Cedh is the only way for some people to play the game how they want.
I don't own any of those cards but the principle irks my soul that they re release lotus and mana crypt jack up the collector booster packs hype the sets up people crazy buy to pull those cards just to get banned a year later Makes sense
I have zero confidence in wotc right now. Especially if the rumors that they were warned as much as a year ago that it was in the pipeline and they made the three it their chase rares multiple times. Shady af. Real people are getting hosed here, and some assholes online seem to forget that too. Why would I spend a single cent right now?
WOTC and the committee are probably conniving. Jewel Lotus was a chase card in expensive Collector box. So was Mana Crypt. After every lucky few who got one, flash it in their EDH and fun playing it. Or just excited it's in the 99. Then what! Why do we even follow em.
@@asmodean7239 It's been nearly 2 years since I stop buying collector boxes. But I buy bundles boxes. I can use the box and dice. Sometimes I get lucky. The new Mana Crypt from Ixalan? I got it from the bundle. Jeweled Lotus, I got it from the first printing Commander Legends. Which I spent more than $5K and to have Hullbreacher banned.
I doubt they are conniving. The committee just made Wizards look like a bunch of chumps by tanking consumer confidence and destroying the ability to reprint three huge chase cash cows.
Because Cedh was never meant to be a thing. Edh was a casual format for judges to do in down time at grand prixs. Go play legacy or modern if you want to spike out
@@kainslanceas a modern and legacy player those formats are nothing like cedh. They are 60 card, 1v1, massive ban list, no commanders, and PROXIES ARE NOT ALLOWED unlike cedh tourneys. Cause their not sanctioned. A cedh deck can be built for whatever paper costs and be run. The average modern deck is 1,000 dollars.
Hot take: No magic card should be worth more than 15 bucks. People with deep pockets are butt hurt they can't buy their way to unfun magic games. Seethe
I've been told time and time again not to treat high value cards as investments but losing crypt was rough while their logic would ban basically every other good mana source. Either way I'm doing proxies full time now.
It feels scummy for sure given they were reprinted lately. I started proxying everything expensive a while ago and still never put crypt or lotus in any of my decks so it doesnt effect me, but I think they were fine for high power pods
I could see playgroups and shops decide on how to handle the bans. But ultimately it wont save anyone who lost money [including the shops stuck with inventory]. How will THIS effect how shops order new product? If they order less, they sell less. They still have to pay the bills. The next 3-6 months could be the worst we have ever seen for our LGS's.
My group is ignoring this ban announcement. We agreed nadu should only be in the 99. They also had cypts and dockside so we just agreed to keep playing them. The mana crypt announcement really angered me. Im also angry with thoracle dodging a ban.
@@TrixyTrixter right, demonic consultation thoracle super fun 2 win for edh, because vault, petal, LED, etc are all still legal. Good thing jeweled lotus banned, it totally enabled thoracle combo :/
I don't own any of these cards but feel for anyone who does. They have destroyed the base of this tcg, the trust in a card's value. Why should I spent 300+ bucks for a display if I can't be sure of the lasting worth? Then it's all cardboard in the end.
I bought a crypt for what would be 400 in todays money and don't care tbh, cards are simply game pieces and whether it gets banned or played it's money burnt effectively until sold. I own a couple hundred worth of reserve list cards and wouldn't be upset if they literally got reprinted or functional reprints even, frankly I would prefer if the reserve list cards were banned in commander by the RC and WotC then mass printed replacements that had an extra rules text line to mmak them only functional in commander. Economics aside I think the bans were perfectly reasonable as it's not ideal to have vintage strength fast mana in a format without vintage strength interaction. I do however feel bad for the folk that like to disassemble or sell cards to get new cards etc. as they are the group most affected by the financial loss.
Yup and Jeweled Lotus is ONLY usable in commander since it gives 3 mana to cast your commander ONLY. What a freaking joke the committee is. They should be banned from future decisions, they are a shame to the community that support this format.
Your last sentence says it all. It's YOUR fault. If you spend hundreds of dollars on a card game made for ages 13+ and then cry when they lose value, I have no sympathy for you 😂
Proxying every single card from now on. The way WOTC and the RC handled this was egregious. Especially considering how they dumped the rest of their dead stock (Commander Masters and Lost Caverns of Ixalan Collector packs) on the people who bought Festival In a Box 2 (I was one of them). Extremely dissatisfied with this overall and will no longer buy any official product from WOTC.
Jeweled Lotus will be an interesting case study over the next few months. A card that was over $90 that suddenly has no official utility outside of individual play groups. Assuming there isn’t a major move to have Cedh get major community recognition as its own format, the Lotus can help us better understand the power of price memory and speculation on cards. Its utility is less than that of a random bulk bin card but it’s still $50 right now. Who knows how it will play out in the long run.
I'm really sad to see Mana Crypt go, i loved that card. So many good memories with the 3 damage filp over the year. The other idc really all that much about. R.I.P. the Crypt 😔
That's what I'm doing with both pods I'm playing with. We proxy every cards that cost more than 30$ for that particular reason. We don't wanna spend mortgage kind of money on a GAME meant to play with friends.
It's my personal opinion that the primary function of the Rules Committee isn't to protect the value of a financial investment, but to set a baseline for strangers playing outside of a dedicated playgroup.
@@dawubber6676 Absolutely right. Rule 0 covers everything with friends, but bans ensure that gameplay with strangers is more enjoyable. Bans target good cards, and good cards are often expensive. If they start thinking about the "market" and other irrelevant factors, they'll never take action even when it's right.
these bans don't matter because commander is a social format that inherently doesn't have an actual ban list the ban list serves as guidelines or suggestions for how to do a ban list amongst your playgroup. rule 0 people
Magic will be fine, however I think collecting is dead. Why would you chase ultra rare chase cards and goofy variants when they will just get banned anyway?
which is good. the collecting aspect was always stupid and let to an immensely overpriced secondary market for something that should just be a game. edit: I mean collecting itself will also be fine. if you like a card for e.g. it's art and just want to be able to look at it, you can also still always do that. just the treating of magic cards like speculation items on an unofficial stock market has been hit a bit, but even that is fine (as much as I hate people that trade cards for that reason, it's simply one volatile price fluctuation. something that can always happen and will have been part of initial risk/reward calculations for any good trader anyway).
Was anyone really "collecting" jeweled lotus? If you were speculating on it as an investment and got caught in a losing position, that was just greedy and dumb.
The rules committee are a bunch of clowns. They don't even play competitive and they decide what to ban? wtf is that joke? Plus they've banned a cards that was ONLY usable in Commander and now it's a piece of cardboard only good to make filters for joints, loll
Coming from someone that owns and ran copies of Dockside, JL and Crypt, people have to remember its a cardboard board game. Start treating it like one. The wannabe finance bros that hyperfixate on prices and treat this like a speculative market ruin the hobby. They've done this to other hobbies like retro gaming and the Pokemon TCG too. Its absurd.
dude, why everybody pretends it hit the finance bros? in fact those guys just shrug their shoulders, cut the losses and continue making money from selling fetchlands and thoughtseizes. the ban hit Timmy who saved allowance money to purchase his own JLo that's unplayable in any format now.
While the RC's rules are actually optional be official rules since those are just the rules pdf document and oracle, that still means the banlist exists. Hey though you can legally use wish effects however which is something interesting and there is even a unique ruling for how they work that normally goes unused. 903.11. If a player is allowed to bring a card from outside the game into a Commander game, that player can’t bring a card into the game this way if it has the same name as a card that player had in their starting deck, if it has the same name as a card that the player owns in the current game, or if any color in its color identity isn’t in the color identity of the player’s commander. Pretty interesting ain't it?
Wasn’t Dockside’s original printing in a Commander precon? The True-Name Nemesis argument can be made or that treasure wasn’t as supported at the time but it’s just embarrassing that cards in Commander products keep getting banned to join Hullbreacher
@@Matt-qp1ekcommander/edh was built on playing cards and creating decks from what was made for standard. It's no surprise a rules committee for a casual format would ban cards that emulates the effect of an already banned card.
Hullbreacher was also banned from the commander set, Nadu was designed with commander in mind, WOTC sucks at designing cards for commander, and these cards should have never been printed in the first place
@@metalthrashingnerdpodcast9864 Dockside doesn't shut off the draw like Hullbreacher does, I think Leovold is a much more accurate comparison for Hullbreacher... Considering Hullbreacher was printed 3.5 years after Leovold was banned and then banned 7 months after it came out for the exact same reason Leovold was is just more proof of them pushing cards for profits and letting the rules committee take the fall for their bad card design choices.
I was saving my mana crypt to maybe pay a bit for a new graphics card to play Space Marine 2 or a collector box of Duskmourn but instead I think I'm gonna be done with playing and buying magic for a bit. And after Hasbro being scummy with D&D I've lost even more faith they actually give a shit about the customer.
I’m fine with it, we had a huge problem at the lgs with new players proxying all these cards in every deck. The store even got reported to wizards for allowing proxies. I think this is healthy, people are just upset that they have to be creative again.
People complaining about these bans need to grow up. These are cards that should've been banned a *long* time ago, especially Dockside and Mana Crypt. Not to mention, Commander is meant to be a format where you're supposed to be creative. Stop putting the same cards in *every* deck you build, people. That goes against the entire point of Commander.
These people don't think for themselves and just download the most spikiest decks to go to there lgs to win a few packs. I highly doubt that the vast majority of people crying in comments don't own the cards
I respect and appreciate what the rules committee has done to keep up the format. That being said everyone I know is ignoring the ban. All this means is that you can pick up some quality cards on the cheap. Thanks again CRC :)
Price should not inform bans. The prices of these should not be something we observe going forward. If a card is a problem in a format, I don't care how much you're losing out on. This is a game first. It is not an investment portfolio. Its a game, not stocks, and any game piece is subject to bannings at any time.
They either needed to ban 20 cards or unban 20 cards. They chose the path of the former but ita not enough. As long as thoricle is in the game CRC is unforgivable. (I like the fast mana bans and wish solring was banned too)
What if a person does want to play an optimized game of edh? Maybe that's what your friend group plays, but personally I like the actual format, but the waiting kills me. There also is a lot less interaction in edh. In a casual edh game, it sorta feels like 4 players are playing their own games, and the winner is decided by whoever gets the best card out first.
Unfortunately it seems like this will slowly dhut out CEDH players because no one in the RC or Casual community can rule 0 properly to avoid seeing these cards in play. There needs to be a seperate ban list and RC for CEDH players and TEDH players
I opened an ixalan mana crypt and it was one of my favorite pulls of all time and I’m excited to see how formats like cedh adapt but personally it sucks for me losing 400$ across dockside mana crypt and jeweled lotus
So many tears lmao. These bans, particularly of Dockside, needed to happen a long time ago. In the case of Jeweled Lotus, it never should have been printed in the first place. Bans are a fact of card games and if you can't handle it, then stop treating the hobby I love as an investment scheme. Don't let that door slap your ass as you leave, but please stay gone.
Tell me you proxie (aka pirate) without telling me you proxie lol. Was never about it being an investment scheme, it's about the big kick in the nuts it was to spend hard earned money on game peices that some random fucks in a room said I couldn't play anymore and now all that money and effort feels wasted at best, ripped from my arms like my first born child at worst. The investment was my time/energy/emotions.....money being the least important. I can make more money, I can't get my give a fucks back....who were these assholes to take that from me....fuck the CRC, rot in hell
The issue isn't just people treating it like an investment. It's that WoTC knew this was coming and used 2 of them as chase cards in sets for collector boosters. Even if you believe that the only knew recently, they just sold a secret lair bundle using these 2 cards as chases in the collector boosters used to push the product. They literally dumped their stock.
@@replacement6386 Sets are planned out far in advance. There have been times in the past where a ban happens to card that gets printed afterward, but it was extremely rare. With the ridiculous printing schedule WotC is on now, I expect the frequency to go up if they are also doing thier job and banning stuff that needs to be banned. What happened instead of necessary bans not happening for the exact reason you said here. It's clear bans needed to happen wand where the real problem lies.
@@replacement6386WotC and the RC are different entities altogether and neither really knows what the other is doing beforehand, WotC does just reprint certain cards as generic chase cards in sets however and it's been that way for a long time such as amonket or kaladesh
I didn't ask for a commander advisory group to be formed so they can ban cards when they get tired of playing with them. Or come up with stupid rules when i started playing magic you could only block one creature attacking you with only two blockers now you can use 200 token creatures to block said attacking creature now.
I think on point 7 you got it backwards. I think people push a bit more towards the more expensive cards being ban when they start to approach staples.
Limiting the amount of fast mana players can slot in their decks, and leaving the ones that are more restricted/conditional pieces of fast mana encourages build variety more than hinders commander play. Also, dockside was always just a dumb, exploitable treasure dispenser. People outside of cEDH saying their decks got “nuked” because the goblin was banned are abysmal deckbuilders.
![Great MTG Pickups Right Now [All-Time-Lows] | October 2024](/img/1.gif)
Any idiot who paid the prices for jeweled and crypt deserves to be pointed and laughed at.
Don’t cut yourself on all that edge, champ.
@@JakeandJoelareMagic while harsh in his take, he has a point. Investing in magic is a terrible idea unless you are buying reserved list cards. It's a very unstable market and these bans have just shown a whole group of players that it can happen at any given time. After collecting, buying, selling and trading for over 25 years I've seen it happen with power creep, modern and legacy bannings, and wizards random urge to reprint cards into oblivion.
Also I'm baffled how no one thought "hmm should I spend this much money for a card that's most viable use is in a variant competitive version of a casual format that's ban list is based on a philosophy of a non competitive experience?"
Why's that? cuz you can't keep up with actual good decks? I am laughing at you right now with your poor vision.
@@metalthrashingnerdpodcast9864 Yeah. They already mentioned that this will probably teach some people not to invest in MTG products. Outstanding move.
@@JakeandJoelareMagic He is a jerk but this should serve as lesson to those who treated magic as an investment. Buy the cards you like at a price you're ok with if it hits zero. That being said the way they banned is pretty unhinge and i understand the frustration especially since the RC knows how WOTC has been fostering investing in card mentality.
I hope that it will send a message to people that only see investments in those cards. this is a collecting and playable card game, not a speculation market. We shouldn't pay that much to play the game.
Yep, people think they're mad at the RC. But deep inside, they're actually mad at themselves for making dumb decisions and only just realizing it. 😂
@@pr0fess0rbadass so everyone who plays Cedh is stupid?
@@mastershake42019 yup. They sure are.
@mastershake42019 people who play cEDH are playing the game, not treating it like an investment. Magic is a game, not stocks.
@@iekie people generally like to collect things that have value.
My main thought is that I'm never going to buy an expensive card again, and if I want to use them I'm switching to proxies only. I pulled a Jeweled Lotus from a pack around a year ago and my brother got me a Dockside as a birthday gift, so both of those memories are a little bit soured by this experience. I also pulled a List Ancient Tomb a couple years ago and with this ban, I have to assume that it's on the chopping block soon too, since it matches the profile of their explanation for why the other fast mana cards were banned, and unlike Sol Ring, it's a rare and expensive card.
Yeah I pulled Fury nice it got banned I'm really against ban unless card are hyper annoying but then first Restrict to 1 and Commander I honestly dont care if cards is op or not there
At least with tomb its price is held up by legacy. So many decks run it.
Lost me at proxies.
Cheater
Why not just not buy insanely OP cards that completely ruin formats?
@@delailama736 If you want to compete against the other decks using the OP expensive cards then you need to run them as well if you don’t care about winning then it doesn’t matter but pretty much everyone who plays Cedh wants to win. Also there is always the argument just to proxy but if you are someone who just can’t stand the thought up putting fake cards in your deck then you have to get the expensive cards.
As a budget player and a financial analyst, its been interesting to watch the meltdown across the community when their artificially inflated investments have their bubble "pop." I don't blame people at all for going to proxying or other means of protecting their value. Hopefully some people learned lessons about smart and healthy investing practices.
The thing is the players upset weren't buying them as an "investment" they were playing the cards in their deck they're mad because the cards cost alot of money to play. Imagine buying a 100$ game on xbox only for the game to suddenly lose support and not work anymore. You'd be pretty mad about it. The other thing is things like crypt and fast mana people are pretty intelligent with when to pull "that" deck out. The game is good at policing itself to match everybody's deck levels. If a player is using a precon typically people aren't whipping out their deck that runs fast mana and they match the other players power level at the table the best they can. The bans (except for Nadu) were unnecessary. Mana crypt has been in the format since its inception it's never been a problem really, I've never seen anybody crying for it to be banned.
@@toedrag-release you still own the card, it's not that deep
@@sablesalt you'd still own that game
@@toedrag-release yeah, thankfully cardboard doesn't need a server connection like it does.
@@sablesalt sure the 100$ peice of cardboard is now a bookmark and the $100 disk is now a coaster
Toe may toe Toe Mat toe
Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus were too expensive for me to play anyway, so I didn't lose out on those, Dockside didn't fit my play style and everyone knew Nadu was a mistake as soon as it was spoiled. Ain't no thing for me.
Just print them, why give wizards money. Chess isn't pay to win
@@Lorry_DrawsWhy not just play chess then? If you dont like the fact that limited availability is a part of the game.
@@Janbo.C137Proxying (like they said) skips the limited availability problem so I don't think they care lol why would they play chess? It was a comparison to another game with varying game pieces and how that game doesn't have ridiculously expensive pieces
Limited availability is one of the worst parts of the game. We fool ourselves into thinking that 10 cent pieces of cardboard are worth hundreds of dollars, and wotc loves this because people buy their overpriced crap and let them keep making money off of artificial scarcity. Proxying is the way to go, it makes the game accessible. I'd rather play against someone and see their deckbuilding choices and playstyle, not how deep their pockets are.
@@Janbo.C137These people just don't understand the "Big picture".
@@Transformers4444 Ok. Try again when you have learned what a TCG is and how value is created. The concept of money would be a good starting point. Best of luck.
Completely agree with Josh when he said: Bans shouldnt be made when people arent split up like this one. Bans should be when a major problem with the format is located and the vast majority agreed with that ban. Nothing like this out of nowhere ban of staples. Cmon…
These cards were very much problems, especially dockside extortionist which is the card I’m the most happiest about being banned 😂
They could have preserved the value of these cards and preserved the casual gameplay experience by simply announcing CEDH will now be a separate format.
I think this hits harder than it should because the community is so against proxies. The rules committee sets such strict standards for play and can choose whatever they want. They are not regulated by WotC and lost Sheldon last year.
cEDH proxy everything and even allow it to be tournament legal.
Another hot take is that they should have a "banned as commander" list separately from outright banned.
Anyone who is mad at the rules committee is entirely missing the point this is 100% on wizard's shoulders for designing cards specifically to break formats to sell sets
Ah yes, Mana Crypt. A card famously made 29 years ago to sell to the Commander players that didn’t exist yet.
Look, I agree with you on the other 3, but banning a card that is older than the format doesn’t quite line up there. Mana Crypt wasn’t a problem for 99.99% of players, and that’s pretty obvious from it existing since day 1…
@@charredhuskto be fair, the special guest mana crypts were one of the main selling points of LCI because of commander
@@cowman22ish that is true, but the card is also collectible because of its age and lack of overall reprints. It’s not unreasonable to think it could have been appealing even without commander.
It would have been MUCH less appealing, but I doubt anyone will argue that Mana Crypt is the only one of these 4 cards that is still going to have some worth after this. Both momentarily and just for collections.
Yeah. The problem isn't that they were banned. The problem is how they got so expensive in the first place
@@charredhusk"how could they kill mana crypt! I only had 29 years to play with it!" -🤡
We need to sue the rules committee. It’s the only way. There are so many less competitive cedh decks now it’s not right! This band was purely to send a message to anybody who plays cedh or is just a collector. You can basically say that the rules committee stole well over $20 million from the community.
I learned after dropping 2 bills on Borderless Ugin, just months before a very similar printing was released, that spending that much on a card is dumb.
I'm glad I only got Dockside ages ago, and a pretty good deal on Lotus. Having all these reprints and special versions less than a year ago too... Ouch.
I'm torn, but could've seen it coming. Only really changes if your playgroup agrees, though...
Ask yourself this: If they released Commander Masters 2 in the near future, containing reprints of Thassa's Oracle, Mana Vault, Rhystic Study, Chrome Mox, and Mox Opal, would you consider buying it? If the answer is no, then Wizards has a serious problem on their hands. People aren't stupid, and if you spit in their face and take them for a fool, they aren't gonna be keen on buying your product in the future. This decision will ripple through game stores and go down as a true business blunder if Wizards doesn't do something to restore consumer confidence. The banlist is a marketing tool, after all, and if it hurts the most passionate players of your game, things aren't gonna end well.
When I stopped playing Yugioh in person I sold my collection and used some of it to buy a Mana Crypt, feels bad now…
The cope from the people who are mad about this is hilarious. Sucks to be a store, but even as someone who lost about $500 from the bans, how is it not clear that this is better for the format? All the whales FINALLY wanting to proxy is hilarious though. Funny that it took their playthings getting banned to realize they can simply draw on basics and no one will gaf.
I bought a few collector boxes for a hunt of the mana crypt and jeweled lotus in the last 4 months. I was lucky to pull one of each, but now I will just proxy cards that are worth more than $20. I can support my LGS. Especially for pre-release, but I won't go crazy with collector boxes anymore...
Lost me at proxies
Cheater
@vitorgomes6762 I don't stack my deck or fake shuffle. I have been playing since 1997 without buying any proxies. I finally decide to not spend for over priced cards that would just drop in value in a couple of months. Aren't all cards just cardboard. The token cards we used are technically proxy cards anyway. At my LGS some kids around 12 use proxies (dry erase), and we all cheer them on because we want new players to feel welcome. Sorry you feel this way.
@elementalfl1ght sorry mate but you keep losing me every time you mentions proxies.
Proxies are for bitter players, fake players and assholes
@@vitorgomes6762then you must play them cuz you're a real fucking loser here.
@vitorgomes6762 I proxy as well as my friends do. Sometimes, we don't want to spend 40+ bux on cards that will potentially get banned now. But you calling us that, your the type that don't have the courage or convictions to say it to people's face. Rather easy to hide behind the keyboard/phone.
Simple solution. Ban everything. Go full scorched Earth. Just go to your locals and just stare down at each for a riveting game of EDH until the last one blinks.
Thank you for giving me the laugh I needed today
I mean this is the most logical. There is no reason to start banning more cards
Yes, banning fast mana is the same as banning everything, what a reasonable and rational response
Ban everything except barren glory. First one to play it and survive until upkeep wins.
@nicholaslangrock475 banning everything is silly but he's clearly joking but by the RC logic they should ban ancient tomb, sol ring and all mox
I own a Jeweled Lotus and a Dockside Extortionist. I got them for my last birthday and wanted to use them primarily to make slower decks work in a casual kind of game, e. g. in high cmc decks like dragon typal. The loss of value is a bit annoying, but I think I'm okay with the bans. I mean I don't play in sanctioned tournaments (are there any for commander?) and you can still play the cards privately.
Edit: I think it might be a good middle way to set a rule 0 that Dockside may not be used to combo off with cards like Deadeye Navigator or Chthonian Nightmare and that cards like Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus may only be used in decks with above average cmcs. That way a one-sided gameplay could be rendered less likely. I mean whenever I played Miirym, I would be killed before I could even bring my first dragon into play. I don't want to play unfairly, I just want to participate and develop my game.
I said it before and i'll say it again, after these bans I'm not buying staples that are higher than $20 anymore, seems nothing is safe after seeing all of these fast manna bans.
Pretty much nothing should cost significantly more than that if it's in sets currently in print. If it does, that should be your clue the card is busted.
That’s the reason I play budget/semi-budget decks, I spare a headache and don’t loose a huge investment if something gets banned
Understandable. But, that's seems similar to those who avoid relationships to avoid the possibility of being hurt. Those people still can have a level of contentment. But not really experiencing life. Magic is just a game. Many love it. It's a big part of their lives. I've met many friends through the game. It's sad to see the game that we love [seemingly] trying to hurt us and make us not be able to trust it.
Ok lmao lets not be overly dramatic XD there is an absurd amount of fun to be had in commander without dropping a thousand dollars on a deck. My favorite commander deck costs less than a single mana crypt. I get people are butthurt over their cards losing value but the bans are all ritual-like effects which are feelsbad in casual(that said i do think there should be a separate cedh banlist tho wouldnt be mad if these were banned there too)
@@Einherjar1349 Totally agree. I own 15+ decks and not a single one has a budget over $100, and my friends and I use this as a house rule. It leads to much better gameplay in my opinion.
The problem with their vision is they even think about banning cards like Sol Ring. They might as well cancel the commander project and stick to competitive vintage and standard at this point ffs. -_-
@@darkperihellion ok but the format would benefit from a sol ring ban… it represents such insane mana acceleration that can go in any deck. The issue is that with 100 cards and only a single sol ring the odds of drawing it are relatively low but when drawn it has a disproportionate impact on the game and its pacing. And since the odds are so low to draw it in a given game you basically never end up in a game where everyone draws it so there are always players who don’t draw sol ring and feel helplessly behind the player(s) who did draw sol ring.
At this point we should bann thassas oracle too. So cedh gets a complete new shell.
Thoracle honestly does have it coming, I much prefer the era of lab man as he is much more intractable, while I don't mind thoracle or even flash hulk when it was around I do get they aren't really inductive of a competitive format by being around.
I would say a good benchmark to decide what is too good in terms of win con potency is doomsday as it is very threatening but not overbearing as there are plenty of things that don't win the game as concisely but are better most of the time.
I will no longer buy collector boxes
^^^ This. Personally I’ve never agreed with the collectors series and the egregious pricing they’ve allowed the secondary market to curate around it. Always felt a little sleazy once WOTC started putting chase cards that weren’t even from the set in them just to drive player interest. I thought the point of a collectors set was the limited aspect of getting highly stylized version of the cards from THAT set!
I think the bans were handed poorly and personally I don't think they should have been banned. The community's poor communication with itself should have been corrected not removing cards that provide insensitive to stay in the game of magic, right now it has shaken the foundations of what this game is because it brings into question what cards are safe or not, and any experience or remotely powerful cards could be banned because they are too fast or too good, and with the constant creep in power that cards are getting doing this isn't going to solve the problem only make it worse to the point that years down the line, we look at the very real possiblity of being forced to play with only vanilla creatures, and the weakest legendary creatures around. That is how one stops power creep, remove all powerful cards. If I'm not mistaken this ban removed $128 million from the magic economy, that is a big hit to the players and local stores, it doesn't feel good.
this is a terrible precedent to set.
I'm not spending a cent on magic cards unless this decision gets reneged.
why spend a dime on cards when cards can be struck from our format for being "to generically good".
i can accept cards that break the format.
i can accept cards that create an unfun experience (stasis and Armageddon still here laughin' at that logic)
but hitting fast mana? no thanks.
Why ever try and optimize and improve our decks performance when the rules committee could just have a bad day and decide "you know what, ban that card. its too 'GeNeRiCaLlY gOoD'
This is a good precedent. Cards should not cost that much in the first place. PERIOD. Y'all are just mad you're only realizing it now.
@@pr0fess0rbadass i agree cards shouldnt cost that much- WOTC controls that though- not the RC
Financially I saw a dip in my collections overall value and today it has recovered mostly due to the rise of mana vault. Probably temp gains. Playability wise I find casual commander to be rather boring. I don’t play much but cEDH is what kept me interested and what content I engaged most with on RUclips. I feel Jeweled lotus and Mana crypt bans should have been discussed openly before they happen.
Who is paying $50 for a card you literally cannot use anywhere
We call them morons.
My future is, as a commander only player, I see no reason to not go proxy only going forward.
I feel bad for the effect it will have on owners of special treatments and editions. These cards were way to expensive for me to play. I hope this has the effect of splitting cedh and edh. I think that would be healthy for both formats.
This was clearly Targeting the CEDH part and it is clear to me that they should stop messing with EDH and make a separate RC. EDH has always been a place where almost every card can be played. I play in a pod with high power decks and these cards are staples in most decks ( except nadu ) i am not a fan of EDH becoming another mordern or legacy with ban after ban......
Was on the fence about proxying now firmly in the proxy side after this ban
Yes, I can still rule zero them, and Yes, I can still put them in my cube.
I only have 1 copy of each of the Lotus, Crypt and Dockside; I wasn't planning on selling them anyway. But what it has done is make me far more reluctant to pick up any other cEDH stables that are high value, such as Ancient Tomb and Fetchlands (as I have none of those), even Mana Drain and other top tier counterspells, tutors and removal are making me nervous to pick up.
All you hear are people saying "just proxy" or "just rule zero them", but that was easily done before the ban, but you didn't have as much upset.
100% done with chase variants or whatever. Time to almost never get excited for new cards ever again...
It's worth noting that the fetch lands are staples in legacy and modern so a ban there wouldn't matter
I have a feeling they will be playable again in the future, so I would like to pick up a copy of each ( except for Nadu, which was a mistake ).
But even at their current price they are way out of my budget.
From the game aspect, theese bans probably make sense. But magic always has been about the gathering. And they completely forgot about it. Collecting Magic The Gathering expensive cards now is a pretty bad decision.
Retroactively deflating worth is a huge problem. I've been holding a gaea's cradle since it got pulled in '99... Just waiting for that to plummit now
It's kind of insane how much hate people are getting for being upset that their expensive staples became near worthless overnight. You know most of the people who got burned by this aren't mtg investors but people who owned a couple copies of expensive staples they enjoyed playing with. You are allowed to be upset that a committee of unaccountable people tanked the price of three of the biggest chase cards in the format with no prior warning after sitting on their hands for a decade.
This scares me not only as a player but to see buissness owner be out thousands of dollars, it makes me worry if the mox diamond, lions eye or even the dual lands could be next? Am i just gunna light my money on fire at this point. Personal opinion is to revert this next month for mana crypt and jeweled lotus. I feel This decision was made under the assumption that no one was having the conversation of what kind of game are we playing. I think its fine to shift the format but this decision has killed alot of high cmc commanders.
This is one format with its own rules committee that you don't even have to listen to if you're playing casually with friends, which is how the format was designed anyway. Dual lands are staples in legacy, and not going anywhere.
I pulled a mana crypt and was happy. Now they just canceled the value it had. So why should I bother buying other sets? They might just ban the most expensive cards in these as well. Keep in mind that they PUSHED mana crypt in lost caverns of ixalan. That was not even a year ago. Right after advertising the shit out of it they banned it. Greedy and shady shit right there.
while my collection is worth less money now, Magic should always be about accessibility and the joy of playing the game. This source of intrinsic enjoyment that we all share is corrupted by its treatment as a financial investment. $50 is still too much for any game piece
Not a big deal. It's the first commander ban in forever
cEDH is looking to splinter off. Over 1100 people in a day joined the cEDH Advisory Group discord. Discussions have already begun about how to properly choose what qualifies someone to be nominated, eligible to be voted into the RC
Dockside was just a matter of time imo. The other bans I definitely don’t agree with.
After much though. Much talk amongst friends, players alike, it seems with all the financial ruin and collapse and quiltings on Magic, that through it all it seems the only real, good, or logical outcome IS that this was done for the health of the format. Bc it seems to have ruined everything but. So, maybe the RC is honest and did it for the best. It certainly makes newer commanders and cards that have a high power level harder to access early on, thus creating the return to balance--removal. Removal is the checks and balances of Magic the Gathering. Oh got a Grislebrand? Swords to Plowshares. Got a Golos, Resculpt that bisshh.
I’m selling all my cards and proxing my decks after this
Speaking like a cheater
@@vitorgomes6762 Sounds like brainrot? What’s the cheat here exactly? Not giving WOTC more money? This guys must be a monster!
@@vitorgomes6762 What does that mean? Playing with proxies is not cheating my guy.
@@vitorgomes6762Speaking like a person with IQ of 60.
Everyone does this and magic dies. Good plan. Great way to support your community. Gonna be playing with a few friends at home in the future until y'all get bored with the game. But you'll only be out money for printing supplies.
The game is imploding on bad decision after bad decision. Improper play testing will lead to the destruction of every format.
They'll go up again when cedh becomes its own format.
Just imagine all the remaining collector boxes whose chase card was supposed to be jeweled lotus.. huge loss for stores and people holding sealed product:)
This has been far too small a part of the conversation. The one segment of Magic hurt the most by this isn't players with 1 copy of these cards, it is Local Game Stores left holding the bag. LGS locations already survive on ridiculously small margins on new Magic product. Singles are the solitary decent markup item when it comes to Magic for LGS locations. Now many of them are taking massive losses when simply trying to keep their single selection as expansive as possible for the benefit of their player base and to keep the lights on. That doesn't even speak to any sealed product these locations are now loosing money on, like you brought up.
@@jeremysmith4620 Historically speaking, bans of high valued cards very rarely hurt vendors outside of the short term because cards for the next most viable strategies in the format increase in price as a result of bans. e.g mana vault seeing a 30+% spike in price yesterday. If vendors are diversified enough in their singles, they should experience no hit whatsoever.
With one exception... if this banning leads to a reduction in the average price of cards due to reduced consumer confidence, vendors will experience some medium-term losses that will eventually be mostly alleviated by their own expenses in purchasing cards being reduced as well. But this would be a good thing in my opinion, consumer confidence is too high, and the prices of singles do not properly reflect the risk of future devaluation.
@@jeremysmith4620is the sealed pricing built around jeweled lotus selling for like $100 though? Or was that a function of WoTC not realizing how much demand there would be? Because historically, the best cards currently in print never sold for more than $25. This was even true of black lotus way back in 1993.
If you saved and bought the cards or pulled them, we lost the most! Fuck any one who thinks different. They must play pauper or budget or just hate!!
I will proxy. I will probably not buy sealed. If it's for commander, I will proxy.
The game isn’t about commander. It should be all about standard and everything else fits around it.
Standard is no longer the most popular format in Magic: The Gathering (MTG), and interest in it is mostly limited to Magic Arena. The popularity of Standard has been overshadowed by Modern and Commander.
Standard was once the most widely-played format in MTG. However, there is little interest in Standard outside of Magic Arena.
@@aunthemod thats fair, but the reason we are in this mess is because they're printing cards JUST for commander, that are highly sought after. Honestly, if they made just standard sets (yes still can have cards referencing multiple players), and then other cards filter through to other formats it would be good. It would also drive people to play standard more as well. Hell standard is better than ever, its better than Pioneer, better than modern (cheaper) and better than commander. Commander was always meant to be about janky combos and random fun stuff, never ultra efficient sources of advantage - leave that to modern/vintage. I know from experience, you buy a pack of cards for a standard set, and more often than not, there is a commander card or a reprint not valid in standard, and it turns people off playing standard. Everything you get in a standard pack should be standard legal. If we went back to that style, it would change the game up.
And to be fair, the only reason why everyone is upset about these bans, is because unlike every other single ban and restricted announcement, there was 0 heads up this was gonna happen
@@casperionxnot a problem if they make cards just for commander, but if they somehow make it into standard packs, they need to be commons. The problem is no single card currently in print should command $100 price tag on the secondary market. It's understandable competitive commander players are salty they laid out that kind of cash, but the more important issue is still gameplay. And if the cards provide too significant of an advantage/make the game less fun for everyone, then it makes sense to ban them.
To be honest I am kind of fed up with any EDH bans (if it isn’t competitive EDH). I just lose money and have to change my favourite decks again and again. I had to dismantle my favourite Golos 200 card deck (I have mana and utility base and then shuffle bomb deck and randomly add it to lands and ramp/utility - that way you get new fun, bomb-heavy deck every time and when you spin Golos you always get unexpected new stuff). These bans serve no purpose - they are completely arbitrary and aren’t based on any objective reasonable data, just on what ban committee “feels like”, like - “this card is to prevalent”, this card is too annoying to play against, this is too easy to win with or smh. In EDH we have so many annoying cards, so many super-strong cards, so many prevalent cards, this is social format we can decide stuff in our playgroup. And let’s be real - pretty much no one is coming to new pot of players tying to win as fast and as dominant as possible - we all just try our ideas and certain archetypes. Was Dockside fine before, was mana crypt fine before? Why ban them now in particular??? It just looks like - they got fed up with them now and finally decided to ban them. Why do we have to listen to them??!!
You don't. Not unless you're playing in a tournament where they're banned.
I want to see the sales records of everyone who banned them
Oooh! Spicy!!!! Yikes 😮
purches records to
They definitely were moving their stock. All 3 of these were on the game knights episode a month back of cards they were taking out of all their decks. I wonder why. Who’s to say this hasn’t been months in the works as the CRC and their friends quietly sold their stocks in these cards before the ban
@jproductions7469 So were they quietly selling them off or putting it on RUclips for all to see? Kinda gotta pick one there
@@thecolonel1457 command zone arnt on the rc. but are freinds with them in there talk about removing them they talked more about they wanted to slow there decks down but nothing about power level or the cards be at risk given the sheer cost of some cmd staples they should be put onba watch list first not out right ban. this is gonna fo to way 1 players are gonna outright complain about the rc to wizards untill wizards dose something or wizards themselves are going to do something cuase the new RC hitting cards for power level meaning all the chase cards wizards like to put in packs to sell them are at risk of becomeing basically worthless. and wotc has stated multi times commanders there cash cow format and alot of cards are being made for cmd even in sets not cmd related. rember the rc might not be run by eizards but it exists becuase they let it
I can understand the ban of mana crypt, it’s probably the best mana rock and fast mana
But for me jeweled lotus makes no sense, it’s only playable in commander and they banned it… so this card is literally just a piece of paper now… also these 2 cards are extremely popular and expensive, people are trying to get them all the time. So it means that players spent money on a useless card and on a card that is not as playable as before… I don’t feel like it’s fair
Specially that usually cards that are banned in commander are not banned because they are strong but because they are annoying or game breakers
Commander is a game where people want to do huge plays and play powerful cards if they start to ban cards just because they are strong it means the format is gonna die
I really hope they go back on their decision, at least on jeweled lotus
I lost $400 because of this ban. I understand people hated these cards but that's still rough
No, you spent $400 on 3 cards that never should have cost that much in the first place.
@@nothingbutstatic you're not wrong. Still feels bad.
My biggest concern with the ban is that it may be an attempt to get more people into the format. Which is cool, more power to those who join the format because they can suddenly afford to play. But this concerns me is the fact that they may end up turning a lot of CEDH players away from the format because the suddenly can't play the game. Commander is a long game format. If you get rid of fast mana, you make the game longer and not everyone has that kind of time.
It's not likely to have a ton of impact on the median length of a game though, as there are still plenty of ways to ramp mana once the game gets going. The point of the bans was more to prevent the really short games where one player gets off to such a fast start the game is over before the other players really have a chance to do anything. And, if you don't have time for a longer game, you can always play a shorter format. It's not like you always have to stick to the same format.
Great for casusl, bad for cedh. Split the format. Cedh is the last place for high octane games without dropping a cool 1,000-1,300 bucks. Since its unsantioned proxies are okay. Cedh is the only way for some people to play the game how they want.
I don't own any of those cards but the principle irks my soul that they re release lotus and mana crypt jack up the collector booster packs hype the sets up people crazy buy to pull those cards just to get banned a year later Makes sense
I have zero confidence in wotc right now. Especially if the rumors that they were warned as much as a year ago that it was in the pipeline and they made the three it their chase rares multiple times. Shady af. Real people are getting hosed here, and some assholes online seem to forget that too. Why would I spend a single cent right now?
WOTC and the committee are probably conniving. Jewel Lotus was a chase card in expensive Collector box. So was Mana Crypt. After every lucky few who got one, flash it in their EDH and fun playing it. Or just excited it's in the 99. Then what! Why do we even follow em.
I stopped doing that.
@@asmodean7239 It's been nearly 2 years since I stop buying collector boxes. But I buy bundles boxes. I can use the box and dice. Sometimes I get lucky. The new Mana Crypt from Ixalan? I got it from the bundle. Jeweled Lotus, I got it from the first printing Commander Legends. Which I spent more than $5K and to have Hullbreacher banned.
I doubt they are conniving. The committee just made Wizards look like a bunch of chumps by tanking consumer confidence and destroying the ability to reprint three huge chase cash cows.
I’m getting rid of my cEDH decks. What’s the point of putting together the top most synergies if a ban is around the corner.
That’s the rub. Like why would I trust Cradle and my reserve list cards aren’t coming for a ban next?
And I love Cedh or high level casual. But the larger symbol of a “fuck you” from the RC stings unless wotc steps in shortly.
@@MattCorrales WotC won't, unless they want to admit they have actual control of the format.
Because Cedh was never meant to be a thing. Edh was a casual format for judges to do in down time at grand prixs. Go play legacy or modern if you want to spike out
@@kainslanceas a modern and legacy player those formats are nothing like cedh. They are 60 card, 1v1, massive ban list, no commanders, and PROXIES ARE NOT ALLOWED unlike cedh tourneys. Cause their not sanctioned. A cedh deck can be built for whatever paper costs and be run. The average modern deck is 1,000 dollars.
Hot take: No magic card should be worth more than 15 bucks. People with deep pockets are butt hurt they can't buy their way to unfun magic games. Seethe
I've been told time and time again not to treat high value cards as investments but losing crypt was rough while their logic would ban basically every other good mana source. Either way I'm doing proxies full time now.
It feels scummy for sure given they were reprinted lately. I started proxying everything expensive a while ago and still never put crypt or lotus in any of my decks so it doesnt effect me, but I think they were fine for high power pods
On CardMarket, someone sold 20 mana crypts at 1 euro a piece
I'm out. Im done playing for a while bc of this and 100% not going to collect bc why would you. Next is the one ring bc it makes the game go fast 🤣
I could see playgroups and shops decide on how to handle the bans. But ultimately it wont save anyone who lost money [including the shops stuck with inventory]. How will THIS effect how shops order new product? If they order less, they sell less. They still have to pay the bills. The next 3-6 months could be the worst we have ever seen for our LGS's.
Idc. I play EDH, not commander. The entire ethos of the format was to play cool cards in a unique way. I'mma do just that.
And now mana vault is up a lot now
My group is ignoring this ban announcement. We agreed nadu should only be in the 99. They also had cypts and dockside so we just agreed to keep playing them. The mana crypt announcement really angered me. Im also angry with thoracle dodging a ban.
Thoracle Dodges the ban because one of the RC people loves playing it.
@@TrixyTrixter right, demonic consultation thoracle super fun 2 win for edh, because vault, petal, LED, etc are all still legal. Good thing jeweled lotus banned, it totally enabled thoracle combo :/
@@gn0s1s Totally enabled the most toxic stuff. Totally
I don't own any of these cards but feel for anyone who does.
They have destroyed the base of this tcg, the trust in a card's value. Why should I spent 300+ bucks for a display if I can't be sure of the lasting worth? Then it's all cardboard in the end.
I bought a crypt for what would be 400 in todays money and don't care tbh, cards are simply game pieces and whether it gets banned or played it's money burnt effectively until sold.
I own a couple hundred worth of reserve list cards and wouldn't be upset if they literally got reprinted or functional reprints even, frankly I would prefer if the reserve list cards were banned in commander by the RC and WotC then mass printed replacements that had an extra rules text line to mmak them only functional in commander.
Economics aside I think the bans were perfectly reasonable as it's not ideal to have vintage strength fast mana in a format without vintage strength interaction.
I do however feel bad for the folk that like to disassemble or sell cards to get new cards etc. as they are the group most affected by the financial loss.
Yup and Jeweled Lotus is ONLY usable in commander since it gives 3 mana to cast your commander ONLY. What a freaking joke the committee is. They should be banned from future decisions, they are a shame to the community that support this format.
dont expect any vallue then if its a hobby
Bruh it was always just cardboard lol
Your last sentence says it all. It's YOUR fault. If you spend hundreds of dollars on a card game made for ages 13+ and then cry when they lose value, I have no sympathy for you 😂
Banning jeweled lotus but keeping sol ring is smooth brain energy.
No 😂😂
probably a hot take but if you are into magic just for the money you are aprt of the problem these are cards guys they should never cost that much.
Preach
You should show what they cost before the ban. 😂
Proxying every single card from now on. The way WOTC and the RC handled this was egregious. Especially considering how they dumped the rest of their dead stock (Commander Masters and Lost Caverns of Ixalan Collector packs) on the people who bought Festival In a Box 2 (I was one of them). Extremely dissatisfied with this overall and will no longer buy any official product from WOTC.
They also knew about the banning a year ago but made the RC hold off to sell boxes of ixilan and commander masters
This ban is so dumb
Jeweled Lotus will be an interesting case study over the next few months. A card that was over $90 that suddenly has no official utility outside of individual play groups. Assuming there isn’t a major move to have Cedh get major community recognition as its own format, the Lotus can help us better understand the power of price memory and speculation on cards. Its utility is less than that of a random bulk bin card but it’s still $50 right now. Who knows how it will play out in the long run.
I'm really sad to see Mana Crypt go, i loved that card. So many good memories with the 3 damage filp over the year. The other idc really all that much about. R.I.P. the Crypt 😔
Complete betrayal of consumer confidence. PROXY YOUR CARDS!
That's what I'm doing with both pods I'm playing with. We proxy every cards that cost more than 30$ for that particular reason. We don't wanna spend mortgage kind of money on a GAME meant to play with friends.
betrayal for resellers :v
What would lead consumers to be confident prior to the ban? The card market is incredibly volatile.
It's my personal opinion that the primary function of the Rules Committee isn't to protect the value of a financial investment, but to set a baseline for strangers playing outside of a dedicated playgroup.
@@dawubber6676 Absolutely right. Rule 0 covers everything with friends, but bans ensure that gameplay with strangers is more enjoyable. Bans target good cards, and good cards are often expensive. If they start thinking about the "market" and other irrelevant factors, they'll never take action even when it's right.
As someone who spends thousands a year in will be buying maybe a few hundred and proxy anything over 20
these bans don't matter because commander is a social format that inherently doesn't have an actual ban list the ban list serves as guidelines or suggestions for how to do a ban list amongst your playgroup. rule 0 people
The same can be said for not banning them. It does matter to the people to actually own the cards or play CEDH.
@@shoople46 as a cedh player this is a entirely fine ban and far from a problem, it's frankly like any other format banning unhealthy fast enablers.
Magic will be fine, however I think collecting is dead. Why would you chase ultra rare chase cards and goofy variants when they will just get banned anyway?
which is good. the collecting aspect was always stupid and let to an immensely overpriced secondary market for something that should just be a game.
edit: I mean collecting itself will also be fine. if you like a card for e.g. it's art and just want to be able to look at it, you can also still always do that. just the treating of magic cards like speculation items on an unofficial stock market has been hit a bit, but even that is fine (as much as I hate people that trade cards for that reason, it's simply one volatile price fluctuation. something that can always happen and will have been part of initial risk/reward calculations for any good trader anyway).
Was anyone really "collecting" jeweled lotus? If you were speculating on it as an investment and got caught in a losing position, that was just greedy and dumb.
Mana vault shooting way up in price now, two days ago it was about 50 bucks i just checked tcg player its at 149 now
Wizard has to be pissed. The rules committee literally just destroyed 3 of their biggest chase cards for future sets.
The rules committee are a bunch of clowns. They don't even play competitive and they decide what to ban? wtf is that joke? Plus they've banned a cards that was ONLY usable in Commander and now it's a piece of cardboard only good to make filters for joints, loll
Coming from someone that owns and ran copies of Dockside, JL and Crypt, people have to remember its a cardboard board game. Start treating it like one. The wannabe finance bros that hyperfixate on prices and treat this like a speculative market ruin the hobby. They've done this to other hobbies like retro gaming and the Pokemon TCG too. Its absurd.
dude, why everybody pretends it hit the finance bros? in fact those guys just shrug their shoulders, cut the losses and continue making money from selling fetchlands and thoughtseizes. the ban hit Timmy who saved allowance money to purchase his own JLo that's unplayable in any format now.
We will not comply. Rule zero > RC
The RC is arbitrary. Rule Zero gang.
The RC has no authority. Stop complying
RC= Recommendation Committee
While the RC's rules are actually optional be official rules since those are just the rules pdf document and oracle, that still means the banlist exists. Hey though you can legally use wish effects however which is something interesting and there is even a unique ruling for how they work that normally goes unused.
903.11. If a player is allowed to bring a card from outside the game into a Commander game, that
player can’t bring a card into the game this way if it has the same name as a card that player had in
their starting deck, if it has the same name as a card that the player owns in the current game, or if
any color in its color identity isn’t in the color identity of the player’s commander.
Pretty interesting ain't it?
Rule Zero- I didn’t want to play with people playing these cards anyways
Im glad about the dockside and mana crypt but jeweled lotus makes no sense when the card was made for commander
Wasn’t Dockside’s original printing in a Commander precon? The True-Name Nemesis argument can be made or that treasure wasn’t as supported at the time but it’s just embarrassing that cards in Commander products keep getting banned to join Hullbreacher
@@Matt-qp1ekcommander/edh was built on playing cards and creating decks from what was made for standard. It's no surprise a rules committee for a casual format would ban cards that emulates the effect of an already banned card.
Hullbreacher was also banned from the commander set, Nadu was designed with commander in mind, WOTC sucks at designing cards for commander, and these cards should have never been printed in the first place
@@metalthrashingnerdpodcast9864 Dockside doesn't shut off the draw like Hullbreacher does, I think Leovold is a much more accurate comparison for Hullbreacher... Considering Hullbreacher was printed 3.5 years after Leovold was banned and then banned 7 months after it came out for the exact same reason Leovold was is just more proof of them pushing cards for profits and letting the rules committee take the fall for their bad card design choices.
I was saving my mana crypt to maybe pay a bit for a new graphics card to play Space Marine 2 or a collector box of Duskmourn but instead I think I'm gonna be done with playing and buying magic for a bit. And after Hasbro being scummy with D&D I've lost even more faith they actually give a shit about the customer.
I’m fine with it, we had a huge problem at the lgs with new players proxying all these cards in every deck. The store even got reported to wizards for allowing proxies.
I think this is healthy, people are just upset that they have to be creative again.
I just checked my store here in Canada. Mana Crypt is at $350 - $480 depending on the Art??? Other than Kaladesh at $800. 🤒
People complaining about these bans need to grow up. These are cards that should've been banned a *long* time ago, especially Dockside and Mana Crypt. Not to mention, Commander is meant to be a format where you're supposed to be creative. Stop putting the same cards in *every* deck you build, people. That goes against the entire point of Commander.
I agree with making different decks. More of a people problem.
These people don't think for themselves and just download the most spikiest decks to go to there lgs to win a few packs.
I highly doubt that the vast majority of people crying in comments don't own the cards
I think the “creativity” of this game has left with the advent of the internet. I would play a different game if you’re looking to be creative.
@@jediabaja6602 there is plenty of creativity in the game to appreciate mate, you are just jaded
From a play perspective, these bans make sense. Being that the RC is not to acknowledge the secondary market, these bans make sense.
I respect and appreciate what the rules committee has done to keep up the format. That being said everyone I know is ignoring the ban. All this means is that you can pick up some quality cards on the cheap. Thanks again CRC :)
Price should not inform bans. The prices of these should not be something we observe going forward. If a card is a problem in a format, I don't care how much you're losing out on. This is a game first. It is not an investment portfolio. Its a game, not stocks, and any game piece is subject to bannings at any time.
Commander was supposed to be ALL the cards . And should have remained that way.
Exactly. It is our format and every pot decides for themselves!
They either needed to ban 20 cards or unban 20 cards. They chose the path of the former but ita not enough. As long as thoricle is in the game CRC is unforgivable. (I like the fast mana bans and wish solring was banned too)
I also would have been happy if most of the banlist was unbanned
Commander isn't about how fast you can win it's about playing big janky spells and spending time with friends
What if a person does want to play an optimized game of edh? Maybe that's what your friend group plays, but personally I like the actual format, but the waiting kills me. There also is a lot less interaction in edh. In a casual edh game, it sorta feels like 4 players are playing their own games, and the winner is decided by whoever gets the best card out first.
@@shoople46 you mean cedh
@@shoople46 if you playing to always win and not just play you are cedh
@@Npocommander If you don't play to win why are you even playing? Its a game where the point is to still win.
@@TrixyTrixter no it's so your deck does something cool like make ten blightsteels and then die
There will be color-specific ramp, other mana rocks, and mana dorks that absorbs the demand of these cards
Unfortunately it seems like this will slowly dhut out CEDH players because no one in the RC or Casual community can rule 0 properly to avoid seeing these cards in play. There needs to be a seperate ban list and RC for CEDH players and TEDH players
I opened an ixalan mana crypt and it was one of my favorite pulls of all time and I’m excited to see how formats like cedh adapt but personally it sucks for me losing 400$ across dockside mana crypt and jeweled lotus
So many tears lmao. These bans, particularly of Dockside, needed to happen a long time ago. In the case of Jeweled Lotus, it never should have been printed in the first place. Bans are a fact of card games and if you can't handle it, then stop treating the hobby I love as an investment scheme. Don't let that door slap your ass as you leave, but please stay gone.
Tell me you proxie (aka pirate) without telling me you proxie lol. Was never about it being an investment scheme, it's about the big kick in the nuts it was to spend hard earned money on game peices that some random fucks in a room said I couldn't play anymore and now all that money and effort feels wasted at best, ripped from my arms like my first born child at worst. The investment was my time/energy/emotions.....money being the least important. I can make more money, I can't get my give a fucks back....who were these assholes to take that from me....fuck the CRC, rot in hell
The issue isn't just people treating it like an investment. It's that WoTC knew this was coming and used 2 of them as chase cards in sets for collector boosters. Even if you believe that the only knew recently, they just sold a secret lair bundle using these 2 cards as chases in the collector boosters used to push the product. They literally dumped their stock.
@@replacement6386 Sets are planned out far in advance. There have been times in the past where a ban happens to card that gets printed afterward, but it was extremely rare. With the ridiculous printing schedule WotC is on now, I expect the frequency to go up if they are also doing thier job and banning stuff that needs to be banned. What happened instead of necessary bans not happening for the exact reason you said here. It's clear bans needed to happen wand where the real problem lies.
@@replacement6386WotC and the RC are different entities altogether and neither really knows what the other is doing beforehand, WotC does just reprint certain cards as generic chase cards in sets however and it's been that way for a long time such as amonket or kaladesh
I didn't ask for a commander advisory group to be formed so they can ban cards when they get tired of playing with them. Or come up with stupid rules when i started playing magic you could only block one creature attacking you with only two blockers now you can use 200 token creatures to block said attacking creature now.
I think on point 7 you got it backwards. I think people push a bit more towards the more expensive cards being ban when they start to approach staples.
Limiting the amount of fast mana players can slot in their decks, and leaving the ones that are more restricted/conditional pieces of fast mana encourages build variety more than hinders commander play.
Also, dockside was always just a dumb, exploitable treasure dispenser. People outside of cEDH saying their decks got “nuked” because the goblin was banned are abysmal deckbuilders.