FIXED GRAPHS VIDEO HERE: ruclips.net/video/iJo4mrogJ4g/видео.html Check out the Linux Video here: ruclips.net/video/A9wulvhU1Ls/видео.html Check out our article for all benchmarking results & how to USB flash update your motherboard BIOS to support the 9000 series: forum.level1techs.com/t/benchmarking-results-usb-bios-flashing-for-9000-series-zen-5-cpus/214583
Nobody has ran the one benchmark that's gives closest to practical performance for programmers with it for the openbenchmarking. Timed Apache compilation. Base on its bad scaling with core count it should be a good approximation for recompiling after a small change in source code.
@@KaySwiss21 Big Mac MEALS, including fries and a drink are $6 in the app, dumdum. Quarter Pounder with Cheese, Big Mac, or Chicken McCrispy, medium fries, and a drink for $5.99. If you have to exaggerate something to the point where you're flat-out lying, you've lost the argument.
As some others have noted, very different results and tenor here. It’s unusual to see such divergence between highly competent reviewers, so hopefully we’ll see an investigation (from Level1 or elsewhere) into why.
Didnt he say he used 2133 and 6400? Either way I really am not hyped about this gen. I think they needed to price it at the leaked prices I might have considered it, but at this point i am thinking of buying one of the discounted 7k series.
Honestly this whole video feels janky. Some of those results are ....weird at many levels. Also where is the comparison with the direct CPUs the 9700x and 9600 are supposed to replace (7700x and 7600x) ??
I hope because the more reviews I watch the less I know what to think about these processors. I don't remember having every seen such a situation before.
@@Ariane-Bouchard The current BIOSes are hot garbage and for some reason everybody is using different memory speeds and methodology. AMD really fumbled once again. I think Zen 5 is amazing and a huge improvement over Zen 4 but I can't deny AMD screwed up the launch and now a lot of people have a poorer impression of it. The only thing that can be said for sure is that once the BIOSes are fixed and these chips are in the hands of consumers then we can get a much clearer picture.
I wish there was more demand for breaking out those PCIe 5.0 lanes into more 4.0 or 3.0 lanes... so many devices are still on 3.0 or 2.0... i need slots, not more bandwidth on all but 1 card...
@@jondonnelly3because thread ripper is overkill just for more connectivity. You are limited to 24 lanes MAXIMUM. The chipset lanes aren't really increasing that. plus with how epyc is, we can do away with the chipset altogether, but motherboard manufacturers wouldn't be happy with that
It’s too bad Avago (I refuse to use their stolen name) acquired PLX, which were one of the few PCIe switch manufacturers, and now they’re priced so much higher than before the acquisition. Best chance is to hope ASMedia makes a PCIe 5.0 switch.
@@jondonnelly3Cloud gaming servers and LAN-in-a-box, and Threadripper does not have 3D V-Cache. And Epyc CPUs aren’t clocked to the same level as desktops (and no overclocking on Epyc).
Thanks for your comment, it is good to know others saw it too I have a new 43" Toshiba TV I am using as a second monitor and for a moment there I thought maybe overscan was on 😀
Dude, great info. I was figuring the bottom half of the new 9000's would be a bit lackluster, since most of us are waiting on the 9800X3D anyhow. But we have to have a discussion on the awesomeness of that shirt!
I appreciate when companies put focus on power efficiency when looking at trends for the future. With the immense projected growth forecast for data centers in the next several years, we will need more computer parts that provide far better performance per unit power.
The gaming benchmarks are very different from the ones at Gamers Nexus or Hardware Unboxed. They found very little improvement over the 7700X and the 7800X3D is still on top. Would love to see the differences in testing methodologies
We should wait till the 9800X3D. then we can do a proper apple to apple comparison. The extra cache on 3DX chips is something that cant be ignored. Once we get a 9800X3D version then we can see if this architecture was a huge upgrade or not in performance and power consumption. So far, comparing a 9700x to a 7700x is showing just power efficiency with similar performance. So if you want to use less juice, then the 9700 seems to be the way to go, but if you already have a 7700x or 7800x3d, no need to buy this. I have a 5600x and was thinking of moving up to AM5. I might consider a 9600x or 9700x.... will wait a few weeks for them to get their BIOS stuff strait though. Never a good idea to buy on launch day unless you know it wont be available for months afterwards due to supply. I don't expect that with these processors since they are a small improvement over the 7000 serries (mostly efficiency)
I feel like there results are not that different from each other. The game mix is different also they seem to approach CPUs from a different perspective. I like having the CPU being out of the box very efficient with room left on the table for pbo or over clocking.
The results are really close to Gemer Nexus! But in here we also see 1440p and 4k results and also playingbwith PBO and memory settings. But if you look 1080p results they are really close to GN!
I'll take Wendell over anybody else, since he's looking at it from a proper engineer's standpoint not a RUclipsr starving for clicks attracted by controversy.
YES exactly. The big deal here is the 2x efficiency. Have people become too shortsighted to understand what that means for future CPUs? There is so much more headroom now for AMD to squeeze some major performance gains out of future CPUs.
Efficiency is great (I run a few servers 24/7 at home and vacation home) and I'm in the process of deciding which AM5 gen I'm going to jump to (from sockets such as FM2, 1155 and their parents 😊) but talking about future CPUs is not directly selling any current ones? I think everyone already on a, probably overkill 8C+, 5000-7000 cpu has minor interest if the rest of the line will be like this..at least when no one (on YT) seems to take advantage of the energy efficiency and OC the heck of of them them
Good review as always, especially in showcasing the substantial power consumption improvements. I wish they had pushed a bit harder on raw performance, but at least this shift gives them more headroom to play with if they decide to run things closer to the sun again on the next generation. Reminds me of going from an XBox 360 to the XBox 360 S. Same performance, much lower power usage. Existing users won't see much reason to upgrade, but it's a great entry point for anyone just buying in. Also, extra points for the amazing t-shirt. :)
The tone of his review seems to be very different than other reviews. But he is 200 percent keeping in mind the power envelope they’ve achieved this in. I think they limited the performance gains and played it ultra safe with power usage.
The tone is different but results are not too much. He said gains of 4 to 16% which is not different than Hardware Unbox and GN. Wendell seems to love the power efficiency gains and factoring it much more.
@@kicapanmanis1060 I completely forgot when the 7000 series came out. Many complained about it going to 95 c. I guess they over compensated. I almost wouldn’t be surprised if some how they changed the spec of the 9700x to 80-90w rather than 65 w. Through a bios or something.
@@justin837 it already is 80-90w they boost to 88w from the 65w TDP, the 7000 series was 105w with 142w boost, so its almost halved on paper but in reality not as much of a gap but enough to bring the power draw/heat down a lot.
Coming from the HUB video where Zen 5 sucks to this is actually refreshing. A nuanced take on cool tech means that Subscribe button is smashed. I am also looking forward to the Linux video :)
WENDELL, right??? Rarely a man like myself can find a cold and composed, informative post. The one that isn't clickbait and whose writer won't eat its sandal a few days later, for even more clicks. Masterminds, huh, half-madness other half... greed? But we're here to talk about you, The Great Nation of Mordor laid its Eye on you - for being rational and having a beard. Yes. We distrust the men without beards. Our Master, Sauron the Great, greets you kindly!
All I care about is the AVX512 perf. Needed for decent PS3 emulation yet not a word about it in the whole review yet it was teased at the start.... it's the one part of the CPU perf that would make it worth buying for me personally.
Wendell seems to be quite a bit more optimistic about this gen than GN and HUB. I think people were hoping for more performance out of the box. It is nice that they are cheaper. Looks like gamers should wait for the X3d variants of these parts.
For the past year I've been getting my PC news almost exclusively from GN, having dropped LTT for the same reasons a lot of people probably did. I did wonder occasionally whether or not I should add another source of news, if for nothing else to get takes that are coming from slightly different angles. If I was fence-sitting a bit on your channel, forgive me. There're only so many hours in the day. But this video (combined with GN's video on the same CPU) is a good example of why trigonometry is awesome. You and Steve both covered this CPU, and I got useful info out of both videos; possibly even info that will inform a future purchase. I'll be making time for both of your channels, going forward. Thanks for the knowledge! :)
What an eye-opening review, thank you Wendal!! Your explanation of the Zen 5 has renewed my faith in AMD for upcoming HOLY COW CPU's. I watched two other channels review the same CPU's and came away feeling disheveled. I'm very happy I watched your video afterwards. All is well in the Universe again.
For single core the 9600x or 9700x is tremendous value. Specially since you can put them in a Minisforum MS A1 and make a powerful mini pc (capable of better graphics and hackintosh if you pair it with an external radeon gpu via oculink). Competing with 14900 and Apple M3 (as far as single core goes). Juicy stuff
Please consider running idle power draw comparisons too in the future. That's really important for 24/7 running desktop PCs and home servers like Proxmox. Most of the time they're idling with
I love your reviews brother. A lot of other RUclipsrs are giving these process negative reviews. I don't think they're that bad. They have a lot of potential like you said.
Thanks for *_not_* doing like other reviewers and just trashing this part because it’s not 50% faster than a 14900k (yes that’s an exaggeration, but still). For someone like me who wants to game at 1440p and do light-medium productivity work, the 9700x is a great part, and these numbers are without the added performance we’ll see in the various OC and other tweaks in the coming weeks. Gained a ton more respect for Wendell today 💯
Says a lot that it takes someone as intelligent as Wendell to see the value in a near doubling of efficiency. That's huge. Everyone is crying that the CPU isn't a huge perf increase, okay, well it's also twice as efficient. Which means down the road future CPUs can take the performance further. People have totally forgotten that there is a limit to how much power you can cram into a CPU to make it more performant. Efficiency needs to be considered as well so there is always headroom for performance improvements. You can't have more performance without more efficiency.
@@JohnDoeWasntTaken You can just limit your 7700x or buy 7700. For this much glaze about power efficiency i would want to see a limited 7700 cpu and compare their prices.
No. To do "light-medium productivity work at 1440p" you have WAYYY better value options right now, including the very CPUs that the 9700x and 9800x were meant to replace, you would just be playing yourself paying more for less.
@@sarpp69 And then you lose performance (I use a 7700X). The whole point here is the 9700X loses no performance (and even gains a little in some areas) while halving the power use. Why can't people stop being so entitled and be happy for the efficiency gains? People go so far as to make stuff up about how efficiency doesn't matter. When Intel would kill for the solution to make their 300W CPUs more efficient. Are people too ignorant and shortsighted now to understand that efficiency is hand in hand with performance and this means future CPUs from AMD will be absolute monsters? The whole thing I don't understand is that for gaming, you don't even need more than anything from the Zen 4 lineup. Yet gamers are acting like we were waiting on Zen 5 to make games playable lol
I feel like the power limit was decided before they switched from 3nm to 4nm. It was a big change. 4nm is just renamed 5nm but 3 is a completely new node.
I do see why the rumors were floating around about the 9700x's power draw. I do hope they give us some kind of BIOS option to take the limits off of it and let it run at the power draw of the 7700x, like you said tho PBO by itself can probably get you there
I suspect some AGESA tweaks are needed, or at least I hope so. Seeing that the 9700X is actually slower than the 7700X in many tests is not encouraging. It does make sense to me that with the widening of the execution units and the changed branch predictor would need some (significant) AGESA changes... and it's not exactly surprising if the initial implementation is a bit immature. :)
Best to wait for BIOS updates and the X3D chips. All the 9800X3D has to do it beat the 7800X3D. Edit It does look like overclocking is back ont he table though with 20% performance uplift from another review.
Since efficiency is the name of the game here, and considering that 5800X3D can be undervolted to around 1V (1.0275V on mine) while maintaining 4.4GHz all core overclock and competitive performance well below the 88W power limit of the 9700X, performance per watt wise it is hard to beat. Keep in mind that 5800X3D in these benchmarks is usually not undervolted and overclocked in this manner to maximize its efficiency. Within this context, 5800X3D actually is competitive with a 14900KS, as well as this brand new 9700X even with its efficiency gains. It may not "always win," but the 5800X3D is still damn impressive.
Great coverage :) I'm starting to wonder if Steve maybe somehow got re-shipped one of those batches that the stock callback delay was supposed to weed out.
Thought I'd share: an audio issue (?) I just noticed, and it's probably because I'm using a convolver in easyeffects on Linux. The talking head audio sections where you're sitting on a desk (such as 13:54 to give an example) have a lot of audio compression artifacts as if it was "background noise". If I disable the convolver they are practically imperceptible, or you have to be listening for them to notice it, it's like a very-low bitrate AAC stream. Edit: After listening again, it sounds more like an applied noise filter/suppressor without a noise gate afterwards.
In Adobe Audition I use the noise reduction process using a sample of the audio room tone after adding a multiband compressor. There are a lot of computer fans buzzing about the office. ~Editor Autumn
@@Level1Techs Hey Autumn, I recommend a perpetual license of Waves Clarity VX to deal with noisy voice tracks. For forty bucks you can get great results within Premiere Pro with no tweaking. It's just VST plugin so it works on Audition as well. Just add it to an audio track or a voice bus/submix. I use it myself for my mixing work.
Did you have BIOS issues, like Gamers Nexus had? I mean it seems you don't, given that you were even able to run 6 core, but I think if someone asks me for recommendation, I would wait for 2 things: New BIOS updates in next 6 weeks and probably also X3D chips. I wonder if some reviewers didn't get "recalled' parts by accident. Because the 2 genuinely good things about those CPU's that stand out is performance per power and single/few thread performance. 9700X probably could have done with 95W TDP, or something in between 65 and 95 for gaming, but that's all.
the good thing about the Zen 5 is, AMD did not lie about what this CPU can. improvements: Zen 4 introduced AVX-512 instructions. AVX-512 capabilities have been expanded with Zen 5 with a doubling of the floating point pipe width to 512-bit. Additionally, there is greater bfloat16 throughput which is beneficial for AI workloads. The L1 cache per core is increased from 64 KB to 80 KB per core. A ~16% IPC uplift on average, claimed by AMD. Memory speeds up to DDR5-5600 and LPDDR5X-7500 are officially supported. Infinity Fabric clock (FCLK) has been increased to 2400 MHz. New 2-ahead branch predictor. Power consumption reduced from 105 W to 65 W (7700X vs 9700X) In the end, this tells us that energy consumption has been reduced, the CPU has become up to 15% faster and the AVX-512 instruction set has been improved. your review is totaly lacking the biggest new feature AMD is promoting on Zen 5, the AVX-512 benchmark test with RPCS3 (PlayStation 3 Emulator)
It seems like they should have pushed the silicon with a few more watts and another 100MHz so that it never had a measurable performance regression. "0% uplift in some cases" looks a lot better than "-3% in some cases" even if it does come at a small penalty to the efficiency gains.
Just an fyi: A significant lot of Counter Strike 2 players are running 4:3 resolution at 1280x960 stretched @ lowest quality with 4xMSAA, Global Shadows and ultra low latency/anti-lag to maximize fps. It would be interesting to see the CPU comparison at such a low resolution.
"So sorry to disappoint the RPCS3 community here. As much as they love AVX512, they primarily only use 128-bit AVX512 - which does not significantly benefit from Zen5's improvements to the vector unit." Alexander Yee
Hopefully the rumors of Ryzen 9000X3D models being finally unlocked, potentially reaching frequency parity with the non-X3D counterparts with potent cooling will turn out to be true.
I've been on x570 with the 3700x and then the 5800x3d CPU and I am very happy with the performance however I can't help but think, is it time to upgrade? The new generations don't seem to really pull me in. Thanks for this review.
Love the little Johnny 5 model! Short Circuit was my favorite movie growing up. Great video Wendel, you are the best reviewer IMO. Keep up the great work. I currently have Asus X670E-F board with 7800X3D and am really wondering if the 9800X3D will be a decent uplift and if AMD will get the memory issues resolved. I am running 4 16 GB sticks at 6000mhz CL36 and have no issues but I know some people have trouble with 4 sticks.
@@B1u35ky Actually comparing it to the 7700 (non-X) would be the best comparison. You would see the actual generational difference be larger, but also see through the falsehood that these Zen 5 parts are priced cheaper because they are comparing them to the 7700X launch price and not the 7700 even though they are tuned/binned as such.
I don't get it, since when we reviewing new generations without comparing it to the previous one ?? not a single chart with the 7700x and 7600x ? what the ech was that video ??
@@B1u35ky no, stop. It is common sense to compare new series of CPU or GPU to compare to older series and its competition. "Yeah because that would only make sense if you were trying to show this cpu for what it actually is" is a ridiculous statement. You need to know how it compares to the old stuff to know how much improvement there is and what the price to perf looks like. You, sir, are delusional to say the least.
What i really want to see for Zen5 is for the monolithic APUs to have the same or better cache spec than the non 3D desktop CPUs. Sure adding cache makes the die bigger, more expensive, and use more power at the package, but system wide it should hit RAM less often and depending on how much less RAM is used could not only make the 9700G faster than the 9700X in gaming, but also make the 8750u more efficient than the Apple M3 in mobile. Everyone is talking about how going to SODIMM takes too much energy so we need to switch all laptops to near or even on package LPDDR, well not using the RAM at all is an even greater power saving, for every bit that stays in cache the the difference of power in picojoule per bit can be more than 2 orders of magnitude less than going out to RAM, The real question is, how much more will stay on die, will it be enough to offset the added ~$5 die price(before adding profit margins, shipping, packaging etc) Will doubling the cache mean that 8 hour laptop will hit 8H30m, 12h? Or will everything that was already hitting RAM still hit RAM and the added cache will increase power usage and now it gets 6h of battery life.
He was describing the 9600x pulling ahead of the 14600 when it was 4 frames more. That isn't pulling ahead, that is margin of error! There were quite a few other howlers in there.
21:09 haha, competitive esports players would disagree. 360hz monitors are slowly replacing 240hz ones and 500hz+ is now possible and not that expensive actually, much cheaper than any oled
There is much food for thought here. Personally I am still sitting on 5800X, and have mused about just plonking a 5800X3D in and waiting for Z6, but some of the tuning headroom on these Z5 parts does look like fun (as someone who cut his OC teeth on Sandy Bridge). I have often bemoaned how modern binning techniques have pulled a lot of the fun out of enthusiast overclocking.
34:50 Thanks for the UEFI Update heads-up. I wonder if that might fix / reduce my GPU problems (RX5700, frequent intermittent crash) which could be tied to the c-states in Linux. We'll see.
Would be great to see a deep dive into the memory architecture on AMD -- I switched to AMD (7800X3D) this upgrade cycle for obvious reasons. On my particular platform I'm seeing some really impressive timings at 6000/1500MHz with the EXPO profile -- in fact for a kit with single-sided SK Hynix modules it does better at 1500 than 2000+, usge scenario is 1440p gaming. Double sided modules are the other way around. I only have SK Hynix DDR5, would be great to see if there is a difference compared to Micron and Samsung.
That was an incredible spread of variables! Especially the 8 core AMD beating the 24 Intel and your point regarding 4k vs 1080 and CPU/GPU bottlenecks! Personally, I'm convinced I will eventually need to get a (2nd hand?) 4090 in my AM4 rig eventually. I was fully and most shocked and almost in disbelief that Intel dropped or never did AVX512? That surely is the nail in the coffin.
No, it doesn't. of course a 6 core can beat 20 core in gaming. Nothing surprising if the single core perf is better in some games. I see you fanboying AMD everywhere. Just, stop.
I think we still have to wait for Zen6 for a new CCDCCU interconnect. Zen3/4/5 all have a major bottlenecks there which imo is why they're so latency sensitive.
Test suggestions? I game, do quite a lot of 7Zip archiving, faff around with reverse engineering and decompilation, emulation, Hyper-V machines, dot net stuff, and LLMs/speech-to-text/OCR. I really hope that the 9950X3D lives up to the hype. (I do a complete platform once every nine or ten years, so my i7-6700 is defintely earning it's keep... : -)
Finally a review that focuses on the impressive efficiency while keeping the performance and not only lamenting about it not being leaps and bounds faster in everything.
These cpus are really good depending on what you want. For gaming it doesnt seems all that good but there are a lot of small details that are pretty interesting
Why was there a 7950X but no 7700X in this review? Other media outlets (e.g. Gamers Nexus and HUB) are more critical of the 9700X due to the lack of progress in terms of performance and price/performance in comparison to the previous generation.
And that's why we have multiple reviews to look at and make our own decisions. GN and HUB are more gamer-focused while Wendell focuses more on developer/productivity/server-focused. Due to how efficient the chip is, it could be more suitable for ITX builders and run multiple chips at once if you're running a bespoke homelab of sorts. But ultimately, you'll have to make your decision on what you're looking out for.
@@hermdude9700X gets impressive improvement in Photoshop, but regression in 7-Zip test In Premium Pro, the improvement is around 6% Blender result isn’t too impressive in GNOME test Even in production test, 9700X isn’t impressive….
@@hermdude Sure, but having the 7700X as a data point would be of importance for these people in these workloads as well?! Just as a sidenote, GN and HUB also had a lot of productivity apps albeit with a Windows/prosumer focus. My point is that having that data point would possibly drive another narrative and conclusion. For a well-rounded picture that was IMHO a bit of a let down in Wendell's review.
For anything non gaming, the power consumption blows everything else out of the water, even Nexus says that, although that was their only positive word about the 9000s, which does seem fair when you compare price to performance currently.
If I understand this right the absolute performance compared to 7000 series is maybe a little better but because of the new core and the way the CCDs are mapped out the main improvements are in watts and temps. ... And that was the limiting factor for clocks on the chips with vcache, right? Sooo, 9800X3D might not even have lower clocks anymore compared to non X3D? That would be insane!
Sokath, his eyes open! Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel. The beast at Tanagra. Uzani, his army. Shaka when the walls fell. Mirab, with sails unfurled. That T-Shirt just took me back to my late teens. That was a great episode. Thank you. Edit: I love that Patrick Stewart is holding a B.C. Warlock in a sleeveless shirt as bald as Rob Halford...Where can I get one?
Thanks Wendell. 🙇 Those high default power limits for Ryzen 7000 were always going to come back to haunt AMD, once they (quite rightly) stopped playing Intel's silly game. They should have left them as an optional performance mode. So glad they've gone back to sensible defaults, but it makes the new CPUs look bad in reviews - very disappointed that even GN didn't cover that properly.
The use case I could think of for an 8 core multithread workload would be something like Digital Combat Simulator Multi-thread mode, where it's got a bunch of threads now, but it really only has a smallish number that are limiting it, and the cache latency hit of transferring from one CCD to the other is a significant penalty. Last I checked, it could use up to 32 SMT threads, but apparently performanced better if you capped it to only 8 or so total cores, because otherwise it ended up choking the system bandwidth by trying to load everything all at once on their own unique threads, and stuffing the system with overhead... Try that for niche usecase!
The problem with avx instructions for gaming is that they slow down the cpu in general. So if you have a complex workload like gaming, than it can severely hurt performance overall
After watching a few reviews, here is my assessment: 1. Zen 5 is notably more power efficient than Zen 4 or Intel up to 14th Gen 2. Zen 5 needs some more tweaks and optimizations to really deliver higher clocks and better memory compatibility. That might be fixed with microcode and/or die revisions, but could require a more extensive change to chip layout. 3. Zen 5 with X3D will be stunning.
I'd love to see more testing with the e-cores disabled, or in heavily serial realtime workloads that cant use them. I'm in audio and they basically contribute nothing to most audio use cases (they can end up a detriment even, if your thread gets moved onto e-cores). or even DAWBench?
Wouldn’t the 7950x in mirage be performing worse because of the cross talk between ccd’s? I thought zen 5 tried to fix some of the latency between the core complex dies ? That’s what I’m thinking but Wendell you are my god! Haha in all seriousness though love your content keep up the good work my friend
FIXED GRAPHS VIDEO HERE: ruclips.net/video/iJo4mrogJ4g/видео.html
Check out the Linux Video here: ruclips.net/video/A9wulvhU1Ls/видео.html
Check out our article for all benchmarking results & how to USB flash update your motherboard BIOS to support the 9000 series: forum.level1techs.com/t/benchmarking-results-usb-bios-flashing-for-9000-series-zen-5-cpus/214583
Better yet checkout the 21:21 zoom in.
Nobody has ran the one benchmark that's gives closest to practical performance for programmers with it for the openbenchmarking.
Timed Apache compilation. Base on its bad scaling with core count it should be a good approximation for recompiling after a small change in source code.
16:20 4K results are all chopped off the screen in the video (zoomed in too much)
21:32 results are all chopped off the screen in the video (zoomed in too much)
24:00 results are all chopped off the screen in the video (zoomed in too much)
Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. Shaka, when Intel VID fell.
Back to you, Steve
Freaks!!!
Uh, uh... Enkidu in the desert.
Sokath, his eyes open!
Mirab, with sails unfurled!
We had 24 hour Walmarts, $1 McChickens, and 40 pcie 3 lanes, we had it all.
Now we have 12 hour Walmarts, $20 big macs, and pcie gen 5
@@KaySwiss21 yeah, too bad 1 lane of pcie 5 isn't useful when you need 8 lanes of pcie3 or pcie4
@@KaySwiss21 Big Mac MEALS, including fries and a drink are $6 in the app, dumdum.
Quarter Pounder with Cheese, Big Mac, or Chicken McCrispy, medium fries, and a drink for $5.99.
If you have to exaggerate something to the point where you're flat-out lying, you've lost the argument.
@@tim3172 its called making a joke. The exaggeration is what makes it funny
@@tim3172 I dunno about "the app", but it really depends on which state you're in. In Massachusetts, you're looking at around $7 for a Big Mac.
As some others have noted, very different results and tenor here. It’s unusual to see such divergence between highly competent reviewers, so hopefully we’ll see an investigation (from Level1 or elsewhere) into why.
Didnt he say he used 2133 and 6400? Either way I really am not hyped about this gen. I think they needed to price it at the leaked prices I might have considered it, but at this point i am thinking of buying one of the discounted 7k series.
It is prices at the leaked prices, what’s wrong with you?
Honestly this whole video feels janky. Some of those results are ....weird at many levels. Also where is the comparison with the direct CPUs the 9700x and 9600 are supposed to replace (7700x and 7600x) ??
I hope because the more reviews I watch the less I know what to think about these processors. I don't remember having every seen such a situation before.
@@Ariane-Bouchard The current BIOSes are hot garbage and for some reason everybody is using different memory speeds and methodology. AMD really fumbled once again. I think Zen 5 is amazing and a huge improvement over Zen 4 but I can't deny AMD screwed up the launch and now a lot of people have a poorer impression of it. The only thing that can be said for sure is that once the BIOSes are fixed and these chips are in the hands of consumers then we can get a much clearer picture.
I wish there was more demand for breaking out those PCIe 5.0 lanes into more 4.0 or 3.0 lanes... so many devices are still on 3.0 or 2.0... i need slots, not more bandwidth on all but 1 card...
With everything on board these days, what do you need more than 4 slots for and if so why not threadripper?
@@jondonnelly3multiple GPUs for AI. NVMe arrays.
@@jondonnelly3because thread ripper is overkill just for more connectivity. You are limited to 24 lanes MAXIMUM. The chipset lanes aren't really increasing that. plus with how epyc is, we can do away with the chipset altogether, but motherboard manufacturers wouldn't be happy with that
It’s too bad Avago (I refuse to use their stolen name) acquired PLX, which were one of the few PCIe switch manufacturers, and now they’re priced so much higher than before the acquisition.
Best chance is to hope ASMedia makes a PCIe 5.0 switch.
@@jondonnelly3Cloud gaming servers and LAN-in-a-box, and Threadripper does not have 3D V-Cache. And Epyc CPUs aren’t clocked to the same level as desktops (and no overclocking on Epyc).
Wendell and Steve at Taipei, their eyes opened.
Sebastian, his hair dyed
The wallet in my pocket, the money's gone.
Wendell and Steve at Intel, their faces palmed.
Are these Haiku’s? Lol
I love this so much. Thank you.
"number 5, is alive".
..or it's just a really alive-like llm
Or it's just a 'short circuit' 😂
Actually it’s Part 2 Johnny Five with the toolbox in place of the laser on its shoulder.
@@user-mt4zr5kp7h No disassemble!
Number 5 really is alive, channel 'Johnny5Replica'
I have a 7950X with 192 GB 4 dimm RAM running at 4200 MHz for 2 years 100 percent stable doing heavy compiling and 3D rendering.
WE DID IT!!! WE HAVE OVER 9000 AMD CPUs!!!
Now wait for next gen to be called Ryzen Prime 1000 AIX series because AMD marketing
Don't give them any ideas 😂
I approve.
Yeah, but they're still 5,000 behind Intel.
@@MrMartinSchou Intel is resetting just like their reputation. I hope AMD won't follow them
This is the fourth time i saw this comment 🤣
At several points in your video the graphs are cropped and messed up.
Yeah, I let my wife know that I'll be needing to get a bigger monitor. Who knows what else I'm missing?! 😉
Plus some of his results are totaly unprecedented, regarding the 7800X3D.. I think Wendel needs some sleep, the whole thing feels janky
Thanks for your comment, it is good to know others saw it too
I have a new 43" Toshiba TV I am using as a second monitor and for a moment there I thought maybe overscan was on 😀
Impressive result ? It can't even beat an I5 😅😅😅
"I'd like to buy a CPU please"
"Your arms wide!"
"Hmm? Ah, OK...thanks..."
"What's the price?"
"Your fists, unclenched"
Can someone PLEASE explain what's going on here?
@@selohcin References to Star Trek TNG season five episode two "Darmok"
Digging the Johnny 5 in the corner. I fondly remember watching reruns of that movie as a child and making a Johnny 5 out of cardboard.
7:03 just whips out a" GODLIKE" board he has laying around 😎
Legendary drop
Dude, great info. I was figuring the bottom half of the new 9000's would be a bit lackluster, since most of us are waiting on the 9800X3D anyhow. But we have to have a discussion on the awesomeness of that shirt!
I appreciate when companies put focus on power efficiency when looking at trends for the future. With the immense projected growth forecast for data centers in the next several years, we will need more computer parts that provide far better performance per unit power.
Except that the so called "power efficiency" of Gen 5 is largely overblown and HIGHLY application binded
The gaming benchmarks are very different from the ones at Gamers Nexus or Hardware Unboxed. They found very little improvement over the 7700X and the 7800X3D is still on top. Would love to see the differences in testing methodologies
We should wait till the 9800X3D. then we can do a proper apple to apple comparison. The extra cache on 3DX chips is something that cant be ignored. Once we get a 9800X3D version then we can see if this architecture was a huge upgrade or not in performance and power consumption. So far, comparing a 9700x to a 7700x is showing just power efficiency with similar performance. So if you want to use less juice, then the 9700 seems to be the way to go, but if you already have a 7700x or 7800x3d, no need to buy this. I have a 5600x and was thinking of moving up to AM5. I might consider a 9600x or 9700x.... will wait a few weeks for them to get their BIOS stuff strait though. Never a good idea to buy on launch day unless you know it wont be available for months afterwards due to supply. I don't expect that with these processors since they are a small improvement over the 7000 serries (mostly efficiency)
B/c most MBs are trash.
I feel like there results are not that different from each other. The game mix is different also they seem to approach CPUs from a different perspective.
I like having the CPU being out of the box very efficient with room left on the table for pbo or over clocking.
The results are really close to Gemer Nexus! But in here we also see 1440p and 4k results and also playingbwith PBO and memory settings. But if you look 1080p results they are really close to GN!
I'll take Wendell over anybody else, since he's looking at it from a proper engineer's standpoint not a RUclipsr starving for clicks attracted by controversy.
Thank you for exploring the CPU's details
Anyone else seeing charts that are zoomed in too far at the 24:00 mark?
nope, just you =p
Pinch to zoom
yes
These cpus excite me for their efficiency and their future potential, even if their max performance isn’t that impressive
YES exactly. The big deal here is the 2x efficiency. Have people become too shortsighted to understand what that means for future CPUs? There is so much more headroom now for AMD to squeeze some major performance gains out of future CPUs.
Efficiency is great (I run a few servers 24/7 at home and vacation home) and I'm in the process of deciding which AM5 gen I'm going to jump to (from sockets such as FM2, 1155 and their parents 😊) but talking about future CPUs is not directly selling any current ones?
I think everyone already on a, probably overkill 8C+, 5000-7000 cpu has minor interest if the rest of the line will be like this..at least when no one (on YT) seems to take advantage of the energy efficiency and OC the heck of of them them
zen5 laptop chips are looking amazing
It would have been nice to see numbers for the 7600x and 7700x as well to get info on per-core uplift.
Since when do we review the new generation without a single chart showing compared performances against the previous one ?? I don't get it....
Good review as always, especially in showcasing the substantial power consumption improvements. I wish they had pushed a bit harder on raw performance, but at least this shift gives them more headroom to play with if they decide to run things closer to the sun again on the next generation. Reminds me of going from an XBox 360 to the XBox 360 S. Same performance, much lower power usage. Existing users won't see much reason to upgrade, but it's a great entry point for anyone just buying in.
Also, extra points for the amazing t-shirt. :)
There's is barely any improvement. These are about 5-7% more efficient than 7700.
The tone of his review seems to be very different than other reviews. But he is 200 percent keeping in mind the power envelope they’ve achieved this in.
I think they limited the performance gains and played it ultra safe with power usage.
The tone is different but results are not too much. He said gains of 4 to 16% which is not different than Hardware Unbox and GN. Wendell seems to love the power efficiency gains and factoring it much more.
@@kicapanmanis1060 I completely forgot when the 7000 series came out. Many complained about it going to 95 c. I guess they over compensated.
I almost wouldn’t be surprised if some how they changed the spec of the 9700x to 80-90w rather than 65 w. Through a bios or something.
@@justin837 Ryzen 9000 still goes to 95C. It's just that it should maintain advertised max boost at that temp without going over 95C.
@@justin837 it already is 80-90w they boost to 88w from the 65w TDP, the 7000 series was 105w with 142w boost, so its almost halved on paper but in reality not as much of a gap but enough to bring the power draw/heat down a lot.
@@WayStedYou that’s like 23 watts more for the socket. Compared to the competition, 20 watts is almost irrelevant.
Coming from the HUB video where Zen 5 sucks to this is actually refreshing. A nuanced take on cool tech means that Subscribe button is smashed. I am also looking forward to the Linux video :)
Phoronix reviewed them re Linux.
WENDELL, right??? Rarely a man like myself can find a cold and composed, informative post. The one that isn't clickbait and whose writer won't eat its sandal a few days later, for even more clicks. Masterminds, huh, half-madness other half... greed?
But we're here to talk about you, The Great Nation of Mordor laid its Eye on you - for being rational and having a beard. Yes. We distrust the men without beards.
Our Master, Sauron the Great, greets you kindly!
That is underratted.
All I care about is the AVX512 perf. Needed for decent PS3 emulation yet not a word about it in the whole review yet it was teased at the start.... it's the one part of the CPU perf that would make it worth buying for me personally.
HAHA that T-shirt love it :)
Darmok!
His sails unfurled
Shaka, at rest.
Intel, when the CPUs corroded.
Shaka, when the walls fell?
Wendell seems to be quite a bit more optimistic about this gen than GN and HUB. I think people were hoping for more performance out of the box. It is nice that they are cheaper. Looks like gamers should wait for the X3d variants of these parts.
Cheaper, more efficient, 9700x can fit in a 65watt mobo which is awesome for "cheaper" builds where heat is actually an issue.
"cheaper"
msrp is useless, until the actual price is cheaper noone cares what the msrp is
@@B1u35ky
Of course they are. All new products are.
@@B1u35ky they alwas do this to make it so they get supply higher beforw lowering prices. After three months they drop in price.
@@B1u35ky They clearly meant builds on the lower-end of the scale cost-wise, not that 9000 is cheaper than 7000.
9700X is hard sell when 7700 (non-X) tray version is half the cost. Literally half the cost. Insane.
In my country they are almost the same price, which sucks.
For the past year I've been getting my PC news almost exclusively from GN, having dropped LTT for the same reasons a lot of people probably did. I did wonder occasionally whether or not I should add another source of news, if for nothing else to get takes that are coming from slightly different angles. If I was fence-sitting a bit on your channel, forgive me. There're only so many hours in the day. But this video (combined with GN's video on the same CPU) is a good example of why trigonometry is awesome. You and Steve both covered this CPU, and I got useful info out of both videos; possibly even info that will inform a future purchase. I'll be making time for both of your channels, going forward. Thanks for the knowledge! :)
Super loved Short Circuit when I was a small kid. Good to see the reference here.
What an eye-opening review, thank you Wendal!! Your explanation of the Zen 5 has renewed my faith in AMD for upcoming HOLY COW CPU's. I watched two other channels review the same CPU's and came away feeling disheveled. I'm very happy I watched your video afterwards. All is well in the Universe again.
For single core the 9600x or 9700x is tremendous value. Specially since you can put them in a Minisforum MS A1 and make a powerful mini pc (capable of better graphics and hackintosh if you pair it with an external radeon gpu via oculink). Competing with 14900 and Apple M3 (as far as single core goes). Juicy stuff
Mini-PCs usually have laptop CPUs, much more energy efficient with much smaller PSUs.
Kind of non-achievement. I don't see any use in one core usage these days, 99.99% of task are multi-threaded.
@@someperson1829 Perhaps you are not aware of many applications where single core is key. Such as for audio and photo, as well as others.
Please consider running idle power draw comparisons too in the future. That's really important for 24/7 running desktop PCs and home servers like Proxmox. Most of the time they're idling with
I love your reviews brother. A lot of other RUclipsrs are giving these process negative reviews. I don't think they're that bad. They have a lot of potential like you said.
This was a much more positive review than other channels.
Might finally replace my 4790k 😅
If you do, do yourself a favor and buy a decent motherboard with PCIe5.0 x16 and good VRM. It makes it really easy to upgrade later.
Never thought I'd find someone else still trucking along with a 4790k!
The other channels got it right tho ...
Time to move the AM4 lol
@@szorrin6812 LOL I'm still on a Sandy Bridge platform. Xeon E3 1270 + 32 GB DDR3 RAM is taking care of my needs, so no real incentive to upgrade.
This video feels like Wendell and I are hanging out at a sleepover. I feel like I don't see him in graphic tees very often
there wasnt a lot of sleep involved in the making of this video lol
@@wendelltron Wendell dreams of electric sleep
Thanks for *_not_* doing like other reviewers and just trashing this part because it’s not 50% faster than a 14900k (yes that’s an exaggeration, but still). For someone like me who wants to game at 1440p and do light-medium productivity work, the 9700x is a great part, and these numbers are without the added performance we’ll see in the various OC and other tweaks in the coming weeks. Gained a ton more respect for Wendell today 💯
Says a lot that it takes someone as intelligent as Wendell to see the value in a near doubling of efficiency. That's huge. Everyone is crying that the CPU isn't a huge perf increase, okay, well it's also twice as efficient. Which means down the road future CPUs can take the performance further. People have totally forgotten that there is a limit to how much power you can cram into a CPU to make it more performant. Efficiency needs to be considered as well so there is always headroom for performance improvements. You can't have more performance without more efficiency.
@@JohnDoeWasntTaken You can just limit your 7700x or buy 7700. For this much glaze about power efficiency i would want to see a limited 7700 cpu and compare their prices.
No. To do "light-medium productivity work at 1440p" you have WAYYY better value options right now, including the very CPUs that the 9700x and 9800x were meant to replace, you would just be playing yourself paying more for less.
Stop being a fanboy. It's about 5-7% more efficient than 7700. Other reviewers are great. This guy is a moron.
@@sarpp69 And then you lose performance (I use a 7700X). The whole point here is the 9700X loses no performance (and even gains a little in some areas) while halving the power use. Why can't people stop being so entitled and be happy for the efficiency gains? People go so far as to make stuff up about how efficiency doesn't matter. When Intel would kill for the solution to make their 300W CPUs more efficient. Are people too ignorant and shortsighted now to understand that efficiency is hand in hand with performance and this means future CPUs from AMD will be absolute monsters?
The whole thing I don't understand is that for gaming, you don't even need more than anything from the Zen 4 lineup. Yet gamers are acting like we were waiting on Zen 5 to make games playable lol
I rarely watch your channel. this is a very good review. showing 1080p and 4k.
26:00 and I like your conclusion: 6-cores doing this well
especially compared to gamers nexus clickbait
0:17 => "Johnny 5" from Short Circuit movies!
*whistle* Hey, laser lips, your mama was a snowblower! *pffft*
We're so old... 😂
Literally just ordered Short Circuit 2 on bluray yesterday... JUST TURNED UP JUST NOW as I'm writing this!
altitude, elevation!
Intel like: I NEED A HERO!!!
I feel like the power limit was decided before they switched from 3nm to 4nm. It was a big change. 4nm is just renamed 5nm but 3 is a completely new node.
I do see why the rumors were floating around about the 9700x's power draw. I do hope they give us some kind of BIOS option to take the limits off of it and let it run at the power draw of the 7700x, like you said tho PBO by itself can probably get you there
I'm certain you can pretty much remove the power limits as on all previous Ryzen CPUs. If not in the BIOS, then with the Ryzen Master application.
I suspect some AGESA tweaks are needed, or at least I hope so. Seeing that the 9700X is actually slower than the 7700X in many tests is not encouraging.
It does make sense to me that with the widening of the execution units and the changed branch predictor would need some (significant) AGESA changes... and it's not exactly surprising if the initial implementation is a bit immature. :)
Am on Alder Lake, you answered that upgrade ? in my head. Thanks.
Best to wait for BIOS updates and the X3D chips. All the 9800X3D has to do it beat the 7800X3D.
Edit It does look like overclocking is back ont he table though with 20% performance uplift from another review.
With how the 9700X is at equal or even beating the 7800X3D in some games, 9800X3D for sure will beat the 7800X3D lmao
@raute2687 ltt, they tested the CPU with PBO enabled
@raute2687 ruclips.net/video/jPJ0Khw3kIc/видео.html
@raute2687 Der8auer
@@popop143 it's not. It barely even beats 7700x.
Really wish you would include 5800X3D in comparison just for the funzies.
It's too powerful and always wins 😊. OCed it ties nondegraded/nongimped 14900KS.
@@TheGuruStudnot it’s not even close to “always wins”. I understand it’s a great CPU but let’s not lose our heads here.
Since efficiency is the name of the game here, and considering that 5800X3D can be undervolted to around 1V (1.0275V on mine) while maintaining 4.4GHz all core overclock and competitive performance well below the 88W power limit of the 9700X, performance per watt wise it is hard to beat. Keep in mind that 5800X3D in these benchmarks is usually not undervolted and overclocked in this manner to maximize its efficiency. Within this context, 5800X3D actually is competitive with a 14900KS, as well as this brand new 9700X even with its efficiency gains. It may not "always win," but the 5800X3D is still damn impressive.
@@savagej4y241*for gaming use only
Great coverage :)
I'm starting to wonder if Steve maybe somehow got re-shipped one of those batches that the stock callback delay was supposed to weed out.
Thought I'd share: an audio issue (?) I just noticed, and it's probably because I'm using a convolver in easyeffects on Linux. The talking head audio sections where you're sitting on a desk (such as 13:54 to give an example) have a lot of audio compression artifacts as if it was "background noise". If I disable the convolver they are practically imperceptible, or you have to be listening for them to notice it, it's like a very-low bitrate AAC stream.
Edit: After listening again, it sounds more like an applied noise filter/suppressor without a noise gate afterwards.
In Adobe Audition I use the noise reduction process using a sample of the audio room tone after adding a multiband compressor. There are a lot of computer fans buzzing about the office. ~Editor Autumn
@@Level1Techs Hey Autumn, I recommend a perpetual license of Waves Clarity VX to deal with noisy voice tracks. For forty bucks you can get great results within Premiere Pro with no tweaking. It's just VST plugin so it works on Audition as well. Just add it to an audio track or a voice bus/submix. I use it myself for my mixing work.
Did you have BIOS issues, like Gamers Nexus had? I mean it seems you don't, given that you were even able to run 6 core, but I think if someone asks me for recommendation, I would wait for 2 things: New BIOS updates in next 6 weeks and probably also X3D chips.
I wonder if some reviewers didn't get "recalled' parts by accident. Because the 2 genuinely good things about those CPU's that stand out is performance per power and single/few thread performance. 9700X probably could have done with 95W TDP, or something in between 65 and 95 for gaming, but that's all.
the good thing about the Zen 5 is, AMD did not lie about what this CPU can.
improvements:
Zen 4 introduced AVX-512 instructions. AVX-512 capabilities have been expanded with Zen 5 with a doubling of the floating point pipe width to 512-bit.
Additionally, there is greater bfloat16 throughput which is beneficial for AI workloads.
The L1 cache per core is increased from 64 KB to 80 KB per core.
A ~16% IPC uplift on average, claimed by AMD.
Memory speeds up to DDR5-5600 and LPDDR5X-7500 are officially supported.
Infinity Fabric clock (FCLK) has been increased to 2400 MHz.
New 2-ahead branch predictor.
Power consumption reduced from 105 W to 65 W (7700X vs 9700X)
In the end, this tells us that energy consumption has been reduced, the CPU has become up to 15% faster and the AVX-512 instruction set has been improved.
your review is totaly lacking the biggest new feature AMD is promoting on Zen 5, the AVX-512 benchmark test with RPCS3 (PlayStation 3 Emulator)
Some reviewers look deeper and go against the mainstream reviewers trashing the 9 series.
Thanks for a nuanced and deeper review.
Great take Wendell, thank you.
It seems like they should have pushed the silicon with a few more watts and another 100MHz so that it never had a measurable performance regression. "0% uplift in some cases" looks a lot better than "-3% in some cases" even if it does come at a small penalty to the efficiency gains.
Just an fyi: A significant lot of Counter Strike 2 players are running 4:3 resolution at 1280x960 stretched @ lowest quality with 4xMSAA, Global Shadows and ultra low latency/anti-lag to maximize fps. It would be interesting to see the CPU comparison at such a low resolution.
Oh, AVX512 :O, here comes some awesome RPCS3 emulation performance uplift!!!! (should consider testing that Wendell)
"So sorry to disappoint the RPCS3 community here. As much as they love AVX512, they primarily only use 128-bit AVX512 - which does not significantly benefit from Zen5's improvements to the vector unit." Alexander Yee
Hopefully the rumors of Ryzen 9000X3D models being finally unlocked, potentially reaching frequency parity with the non-X3D counterparts with potent cooling will turn out to be true.
Consider getting TNG 'Think of the carpet' 'Do Not touch the fabric falls' bridge sign shirts from Liz too!!
A 6 and 8 core keeping up with a $600 24 core is insane.
in gaming, obviously most of those 24 cores are sitting idle
I've been on x570 with the 3700x and then the 5800x3d CPU and I am very happy with the performance however I can't help but think, is it time to upgrade? The new generations don't seem to really pull me in. Thanks for this review.
If you're already on the 5800x3D there's no question you should only be looking at the 9800X3D or higher.
Maybe 10800X3d
Absolutely not, once on X3D is X3D or bust for now
I wish i could keep my s.l.i setup because that 5800x 3d I have doesn't have enough clock speed for my two rtx 2080 tis in s.l.i
Same for me. I had a 3800X, currently on a 5800X3D - paired with a RTX 4090. Is there a lack of FPS? absolutely not.... but it could be faster
Love the little Johnny 5 model! Short Circuit was my favorite movie growing up. Great video Wendel, you are the best reviewer IMO. Keep up the great work. I currently have Asus X670E-F board with 7800X3D and am really wondering if the 9800X3D will be a decent uplift and if AMD will get the memory issues resolved. I am running 4 16 GB sticks at 6000mhz CL36 and have no issues but I know some people have trouble with 4 sticks.
no tests against 7700X ?
@@B1u35ky Actually comparing it to the 7700 (non-X) would be the best comparison. You would see the actual generational difference be larger, but also see through the falsehood that these Zen 5 parts are priced cheaper because they are comparing them to the 7700X launch price and not the 7700 even though they are tuned/binned as such.
I don't get it, since when we reviewing new generations without comparing it to the previous one ?? not a single chart with the 7700x and 7600x ? what the ech was that video ??
@@B1u35ky why fanboying AMD to the point where your common sense needs to be compromised?
@@fugitive6549 You didn't understand his comment .
@@B1u35ky no, stop. It is common sense to compare new series of CPU or GPU to compare to older series and its competition. "Yeah because that would only make sense if you were trying to show this cpu for what it actually is" is a ridiculous statement. You need to know how it compares to the old stuff to know how much improvement there is and what the price to perf looks like. You, sir, are delusional to say the least.
Thanks for a logical review. Seems every other yt channel with bench marks are having based reviews on the release.
Brilliant review youve a great take on this. I take your point on whether the end user cares in gaming terms but its good too see a unique pov.
What i really want to see for Zen5 is for the monolithic APUs to have the same or better cache spec than the non 3D desktop CPUs. Sure adding cache makes the die bigger, more expensive, and use more power at the package, but system wide it should hit RAM less often and depending on how much less RAM is used could not only make the 9700G faster than the 9700X in gaming, but also make the 8750u more efficient than the Apple M3 in mobile. Everyone is talking about how going to SODIMM takes too much energy so we need to switch all laptops to near or even on package LPDDR, well not using the RAM at all is an even greater power saving, for every bit that stays in cache the the difference of power in picojoule per bit can be more than 2 orders of magnitude less than going out to RAM, The real question is, how much more will stay on die, will it be enough to offset the added ~$5 die price(before adding profit margins, shipping, packaging etc)
Will doubling the cache mean that 8 hour laptop will hit 8H30m, 12h? Or will everything that was already hitting RAM still hit RAM and the added cache will increase power usage and now it gets 6h of battery life.
Thanks for leaving in the mistake at 6:00. I hate jump cuts to keep content "quick."
This was much more balanced than a lot of the recent review drops 👍
He was describing the 9600x pulling ahead of the 14600 when it was 4 frames more. That isn't pulling ahead, that is margin of error! There were quite a few other howlers in there.
no, it still sucks.
Because he is wrong ...
21:09 haha, competitive esports players would disagree. 360hz monitors are slowly replacing 240hz ones and 500hz+ is now possible and not that expensive actually, much cheaper than any oled
great review. my 5800x was amazing in 2020.
Love your charts! They're very easy to read and look cool 😎
There is much food for thought here. Personally I am still sitting on 5800X, and have mused about just plonking a 5800X3D in and waiting for Z6, but some of the tuning headroom on these Z5 parts does look like fun (as someone who cut his OC teeth on Sandy Bridge). I have often bemoaned how modern binning techniques have pulled a lot of the fun out of enthusiast overclocking.
34:50 Thanks for the UEFI Update heads-up. I wonder if that might fix / reduce my GPU problems (RX5700, frequent intermittent crash) which could be tied to the c-states in Linux. We'll see.
7900 non-x and 9700x are the same price and 65w. which are you picking for 50/50 gaming/productivity?
9700x
9700X is an absolute beast, I have one! 😀
Especially at such lower power draw.
With fast memory added too.
These look good! Can't wait for the 16 core and Curve shaper videos. Also really waiting for the x3d chips!
Would be great to see a deep dive into the memory architecture on AMD -- I switched to AMD (7800X3D) this upgrade cycle for obvious reasons. On my particular platform I'm seeing some really impressive timings at 6000/1500MHz with the EXPO profile -- in fact for a kit with single-sided SK Hynix modules it does better at 1500 than 2000+, usge scenario is 1440p gaming. Double sided modules are the other way around. I only have SK Hynix DDR5, would be great to see if there is a difference compared to Micron and Samsung.
That was an incredible spread of variables! Especially the 8 core AMD beating the 24 Intel and your point regarding 4k vs 1080 and CPU/GPU bottlenecks! Personally, I'm convinced I will eventually need to get a (2nd hand?) 4090 in my AM4 rig eventually. I was fully and most shocked and almost in disbelief that Intel dropped or never did AVX512? That surely is the nail in the coffin.
No, it doesn't. of course a 6 core can beat 20 core in gaming. Nothing surprising if the single core perf is better in some games. I see you fanboying AMD everywhere. Just, stop.
Wow someone made a LOT of editing errors in one video.
I think we still have to wait for Zen6 for a new CCDCCU interconnect. Zen3/4/5 all have a major bottlenecks there which imo is why they're so latency sensitive.
I LOVE YOUR SHIRT!
Test suggestions? I game, do quite a lot of 7Zip archiving, faff around with reverse engineering and decompilation, emulation, Hyper-V machines, dot net stuff, and LLMs/speech-to-text/OCR. I really hope that the 9950X3D lives up to the hype. (I do a complete platform once every nine or ten years, so my i7-6700 is defintely earning it's keep... : -)
Finally a review that focuses on the impressive efficiency while keeping the performance and not only lamenting about it not being leaps and bounds faster in everything.
good comprehensive review. Thank you!
Very helpful Wendel. Thank you.
These cpus are really good depending on what you want. For gaming it doesnt seems all that good but there are a lot of small details that are pretty interesting
Why was there a 7950X but no 7700X in this review? Other media outlets (e.g. Gamers Nexus and HUB) are more critical of the 9700X due to the lack of progress in terms of performance and price/performance in comparison to the previous generation.
And that's why we have multiple reviews to look at and make our own decisions. GN and HUB are more gamer-focused while Wendell focuses more on developer/productivity/server-focused. Due to how efficient the chip is, it could be more suitable for ITX builders and run multiple chips at once if you're running a bespoke homelab of sorts. But ultimately, you'll have to make your decision on what you're looking out for.
Bruh, he talked about the 7700x several times. GTFOH lol. It’s not ur channel, chill tf out.
@@hermdude9700X gets impressive improvement in Photoshop, but regression in 7-Zip test
In Premium Pro, the improvement is around 6%
Blender result isn’t too impressive in GNOME test
Even in production test, 9700X isn’t impressive….
@@hermdude Sure, but having the 7700X as a data point would be of importance for these people in these workloads as well?! Just as a sidenote, GN and HUB also had a lot of productivity apps albeit with a Windows/prosumer focus. My point is that having that data point would possibly drive another narrative and conclusion. For a well-rounded picture that was IMHO a bit of a let down in Wendell's review.
For anything non gaming, the power consumption blows everything else out of the water, even Nexus says that, although that was their only positive word about the 9000s, which does seem fair when you compare price to performance currently.
Use power to compare CPUs it's always the best comparison. Thank you!
speaking of productivity and power users, is the integrated graphics good enough to handle most of that or dedicated graphics card needed ???
More insightful review than others I’ve been watching
Does the audio sound tinny and a little distorted for you guys as well?
That 9700X looks awesome for SFF builds
If I understand this right the absolute performance compared to 7000 series is maybe a little better but because of the new core and the way the CCDs are mapped out the main improvements are in watts and temps. ... And that was the limiting factor for clocks on the chips with vcache, right? Sooo, 9800X3D might not even have lower clocks anymore compared to non X3D?
That would be insane!
Sokath, his eyes open! Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel. The beast at Tanagra. Uzani, his army. Shaka when the walls fell. Mirab, with sails unfurled.
That T-Shirt just took me back to my late teens. That was a great episode. Thank you.
Edit: I love that Patrick Stewart is holding a B.C. Warlock in a sleeveless shirt as bald as Rob Halford...Where can I get one?
Thanks Wendell. 🙇
Those high default power limits for Ryzen 7000 were always going to come back to haunt AMD, once they (quite rightly) stopped playing Intel's silly game. They should have left them as an optional performance mode. So glad they've gone back to sensible defaults, but it makes the new CPUs look bad in reviews - very disappointed that even GN didn't cover that properly.
The use case I could think of for an 8 core multithread workload would be something like Digital Combat Simulator Multi-thread mode, where it's got a bunch of threads now, but it really only has a smallish number that are limiting it, and the cache latency hit of transferring from one CCD to the other is a significant penalty.
Last I checked, it could use up to 32 SMT threads, but apparently performanced better if you capped it to only 8 or so total cores, because otherwise it ended up choking the system bandwidth by trying to load everything all at once on their own unique threads, and stuffing the system with overhead...
Try that for niche usecase!
The shirt🙃🤘
Really nice review.. also where did you get that Johnny 5
The problem with avx instructions for gaming is that they slow down the cpu in general. So if you have a complex workload like gaming, than it can severely hurt performance overall
After watching a few reviews, here is my assessment:
1. Zen 5 is notably more power efficient than Zen 4 or Intel up to 14th Gen
2. Zen 5 needs some more tweaks and optimizations to really deliver higher clocks and better memory compatibility. That might be fixed with microcode and/or die revisions, but could require a more extensive change to chip layout.
3. Zen 5 with X3D will be stunning.
Johnny 5 is ALIVE!! 😊
I'd love to see more testing with the e-cores disabled, or in heavily serial realtime workloads that cant use them. I'm in audio and they basically contribute nothing to most audio use cases (they can end up a detriment even, if your thread gets moved onto e-cores). or even DAWBench?
Wouldn’t the 7950x in mirage be performing worse because of the cross talk between ccd’s? I thought zen 5 tried to fix some of the latency between the core complex dies ? That’s what I’m thinking but Wendell you are my god! Haha in all seriousness though love your content keep up the good work my friend