With the Hide vs Perception rolls that tie, this is actually a contest. The rules for contests say a tie results in the continuation of the status quo, which in this case would be that the creature does not become hidden. Contest ties result in nothing changing. If someone is already hidden, and someone is searching for them, a tie would result in the hidden creature remaining hidden because that's the status quo in this scenario! :)
Some extra QnA that I thought of/saw after making this video; Q - Does casting a spell reveal your location? A - Unclear. The general consensus and my personal opinion is yes, but only after the spell is cast. This is consistent with how attacks from stealth work, and corresponds to implication with the Arcane Tricksters 9th level feature; Magical Ambush (PHB, pg 98). If the spell lacks verbal components and doesn't effect another creature, I would allow the caster to remain hidden. Q - Does turning Invisible forgo the need to take the Hide action? A - No. Even if you are Heavily Obscured from an enemy (by any means), they are still technically able to discern where you are unless you Hide and succeed a Stealth check, as normal. This is the same for spells like Fog Cloud or Darkness, mechanically granting the enemy disadvantage on their attack rolls to hit you, but Hiding is what triggers the Unseen Attackers and Targets rule. Note, they still cannot see you, so they cannot target you with spells and abilities that require the user to see the target. Q - Can the Skulker feat allow you to Hide from creatures with Darkvision? A - Yes and No. If you are in Darkness, a creature with Darkvision would normally be impossible to Hide from, provided they had Line of Sight to you. With the Skulker feat, you can Hide from creatures with Darkvision, but only within Darkness, not within Dim Light (because Dim Light is considered Bright Light for them). Q - Why does Blindsight automatically reveal you/negate Invisibility? A - Unclear, mainly public consensus/older editions. This is more of a DM interpretation thing, but since Blindsight makes a creature aware of all creatures within its range, your attempts to move to a new location and subvert its attention are foiled. Technically, every creature with Blindsight has a lore reason behind it, such as really good smell or hearing, or what would have been called Lifesense in legacy DnD (but is included under Blindsight now). If we were to deep dive it, we can determine what kinds of stealth conditions work or don't work for each unspoken type of Blindsense, but the simplicity of 5e states that all instances of Blindsight "perceive its surroundings without relying on sight", and you cannot Hide from a creature that perceives you (plus Invisibility specifically only makes you imperceivable based on sight, not any other sense). Although, it should be possible to hide and move into its range without being detected, just impossible to hide again. If in doubt, simply ask your DM. Q - Why can I not Ready an Attack before Initiative, then release it in Reaction to the Initiative Roll? A - Because you are not getting a turn every 6 seconds outside of combat, and therefore cannot Ready an action. You only get a "turn" and can take "actions" within a combat encounter. Outside of this, it is implied that all interactions are at the discretion of a DM (including the casting and effective duration of spells, the setting of traps, and making weapon attacks). This is also important for any Saving Throw that happens at the "start-" or "end of a turn", as outside of combat, you do not get to make it unless the DM says so. But as I said in the video, its up to DM discretion, so ask them if in doubt. Q - What if I need to sneak up on an enemy for melee attacks during in combat? A - DMs discretion, as stated in the hiding sidebar. Something I neglected to mention in the video, there are optional rules for Facing in the DMG, pg 252, which outline how to keep track of which way a creature is looking. Under these rules, getting behind a creature grants advantage (similar to the Unseen Attackers rule, but not specifically using those rules), and each character can use a reaction to change the way they are facing when another creature moves. It doesn't say you need to be aware of a creature to do so, though one can reasonably assume they would need to be. If you use Facing rules, I recommend not using Flanking rules. As pointed out by @Flutes Loot , there are rules for Contests on page 174 of the PHB, outlining that in the case of a tie, no change occurs. If the DM chooses to use these rules for the Hide vs Search, the effective result is that the Searcher wins when you first hide, but the Hider wins thereafter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q - bUt DIdNt jErEMy CraWfORd sAY ______________? A - Sage Advice is Jeremy's interpretation of the rules, and his personal houserules. The only Sage Advice that holds weight for me is that which pertains to spellcasting, as that is at least responded to in council of Chris Perkins. Jeremy's bias's to certain players (cough cough rogues cough) are more than evident throughout his responses and games (Acquisitions Incorporated), and while Mike Mearls spoke with the word of god in regards to 3.5e, he has repeatedly proven he knows next to nothing about 5e, quoting rules form earlier stages of the games development then walking it back later. My video's are about what the Rules as they are Written imply, and my interpretations are based on what I feel is best for the balance of the game. You are free to agree with Jeremy if thats how you want your games to be run, or you must abide by the will of the DM running your games. I cite Rule 0. Q - But wasn't there __________ rule/ability from Tasha's that says __________? A - Tasha's marked a point in the development of DnD 5e that was such a dramatic shift in the games design philosophy, that I have taken to calling everything from that release onwards "5.5e". I understand that this is my personal opinion, and not a fact. I simply do not wish to play or DM that version of DnD, nor do I care to make videos about it. If something in Tasha's is evidently crucial to understanding something about the game, I am capable of being objective and covering it, but there are little to no general rules presented in Tasha's, so I will politely abstain 99% of the time.
Fair enough. I personally prefer consistent and equal rules between players and NPCs, but what's the most fun for each table is all that matters at the end of the day.
Very informative. Thank you!
With the Hide vs Perception rolls that tie, this is actually a contest. The rules for contests say a tie results in the continuation of the status quo, which in this case would be that the creature does not become hidden. Contest ties result in nothing changing. If someone is already hidden, and someone is searching for them, a tie would result in the hidden creature remaining hidden because that's the status quo in this scenario! :)
Interesting contribution. Do you have a page number where we can find the rule where this is written?
@@Calavid Yeah! PHB page 171 in the "Contests" section. The last paragraph addresses ties.
Very interesting. I'll add that to the pinned comment. Thank you for pointing that out
@@Calavid Sure thing! I had just read that the other day so it was fresh in my mind.
Some extra QnA that I thought of/saw after making this video;
Q - Does casting a spell reveal your location?
A - Unclear. The general consensus and my personal opinion is yes, but only after the spell is cast. This is consistent with how attacks from stealth work, and corresponds to implication with the Arcane Tricksters 9th level feature; Magical Ambush (PHB, pg 98). If the spell lacks verbal components and doesn't effect another creature, I would allow the caster to remain hidden.
Q - Does turning Invisible forgo the need to take the Hide action?
A - No. Even if you are Heavily Obscured from an enemy (by any means), they are still technically able to discern where you are unless you Hide and succeed a Stealth check, as normal. This is the same for spells like Fog Cloud or Darkness, mechanically granting the enemy disadvantage on their attack rolls to hit you, but Hiding is what triggers the Unseen Attackers and Targets rule. Note, they still cannot see you, so they cannot target you with spells and abilities that require the user to see the target.
Q - Can the Skulker feat allow you to Hide from creatures with Darkvision?
A - Yes and No. If you are in Darkness, a creature with Darkvision would normally be impossible to Hide from, provided they had Line of Sight to you. With the Skulker feat, you can Hide from creatures with Darkvision, but only within Darkness, not within Dim Light (because Dim Light is considered Bright Light for them).
Q - Why does Blindsight automatically reveal you/negate Invisibility?
A - Unclear, mainly public consensus/older editions. This is more of a DM interpretation thing, but since Blindsight makes a creature aware of all creatures within its range, your attempts to move to a new location and subvert its attention are foiled. Technically, every creature with Blindsight has a lore reason behind it, such as really good smell or hearing, or what would have been called Lifesense in legacy DnD (but is included under Blindsight now). If we were to deep dive it, we can determine what kinds of stealth conditions work or don't work for each unspoken type of Blindsense, but the simplicity of 5e states that all instances of Blindsight "perceive its surroundings without relying on sight", and you cannot Hide from a creature that perceives you (plus Invisibility specifically only makes you imperceivable based on sight, not any other sense). Although, it should be possible to hide and move into its range without being detected, just impossible to hide again. If in doubt, simply ask your DM.
Q - Why can I not Ready an Attack before Initiative, then release it in Reaction to the Initiative Roll?
A - Because you are not getting a turn every 6 seconds outside of combat, and therefore cannot Ready an action. You only get a "turn" and can take "actions" within a combat encounter. Outside of this, it is implied that all interactions are at the discretion of a DM (including the casting and effective duration of spells, the setting of traps, and making weapon attacks). This is also important for any Saving Throw that happens at the "start-" or "end of a turn", as outside of combat, you do not get to make it unless the DM says so. But as I said in the video, its up to DM discretion, so ask them if in doubt.
Q - What if I need to sneak up on an enemy for melee attacks during in combat?
A - DMs discretion, as stated in the hiding sidebar. Something I neglected to mention in the video, there are optional rules for Facing in the DMG, pg 252, which outline how to keep track of which way a creature is looking. Under these rules, getting behind a creature grants advantage (similar to the Unseen Attackers rule, but not specifically using those rules), and each character can use a reaction to change the way they are facing when another creature moves. It doesn't say you need to be aware of a creature to do so, though one can reasonably assume they would need to be. If you use Facing rules, I recommend not using Flanking rules.
As pointed out by @Flutes Loot , there are rules for Contests on page 174 of the PHB, outlining that in the case of a tie, no change occurs. If the DM chooses to use these rules for the Hide vs Search, the effective result is that the Searcher wins when you first hide, but the Hider wins thereafter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q - bUt DIdNt jErEMy CraWfORd sAY ______________?
A - Sage Advice is Jeremy's interpretation of the rules, and his personal houserules. The only Sage Advice that holds weight for me is that which pertains to spellcasting, as that is at least responded to in council of Chris Perkins. Jeremy's bias's to certain players (cough cough rogues cough) are more than evident throughout his responses and games (Acquisitions Incorporated), and while Mike Mearls spoke with the word of god in regards to 3.5e, he has repeatedly proven he knows next to nothing about 5e, quoting rules form earlier stages of the games development then walking it back later. My video's are about what the Rules as they are Written imply, and my interpretations are based on what I feel is best for the balance of the game. You are free to agree with Jeremy if thats how you want your games to be run, or you must abide by the will of the DM running your games. I cite Rule 0.
Q - But wasn't there __________ rule/ability from Tasha's that says __________?
A - Tasha's marked a point in the development of DnD 5e that was such a dramatic shift in the games design philosophy, that I have taken to calling everything from that release onwards "5.5e". I understand that this is my personal opinion, and not a fact. I simply do not wish to play or DM that version of DnD, nor do I care to make videos about it. If something in Tasha's is evidently crucial to understanding something about the game, I am capable of being objective and covering it, but there are little to no general rules presented in Tasha's, so I will politely abstain 99% of the time.
I always house rule ties go to player in 5e
Fair enough.
I personally prefer consistent and equal rules between players and NPCs, but what's the most fun for each table is all that matters at the end of the day.