How the Charismatic Movement is More Than Just Emotions w/ Fr. Mark Goring
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- This clip is taken from a recent episode with Fr. Mark Goring ("From Atheist to Priest"). Watch the full interview here: • From Atheist to Cathol...
Matt asks Fr. Mark for tips on how to overcome scrupulosity, a problem many well-meaning Catholics experience. Fr. Mark has some solid advice to give!
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Fr ripperger has said that the people in the charismatic movement are good people, the problem is often times they step out of their authority and that's where the problems arise. Because the state of catechesis is so bad, people don't understand how this stuff works. I believe he also has said that he was able to clean up one of the charismatic groups and they actually had a higher efficacy rate afterwards.
Right! People can go to the Sensus Fidelium yt channel and watch the video he did today on his Book of Deliverance Prayers for the laity where he says this. I'm wondering if the guy misunderstood or took what he heard out of context?
THANK YOU! I was about to type the same exact thing - can we please keep it accurate for once?
@@mg11879 Yes, it's taken out of context. Fr. Ripperinger said the movement was INFECTED by Protestants who are poorly catechized and are bringing in tongues and translators speaking in the supposed "angelic language" of Neo-Protty origin, etc. which is an invitation for demons; prophesying directly in the name of God (which incurs the death penalty in the OT) etc. Additionally, it is curious (to me) that this is a movement - as an Easterner, why wasn't the West "Charismatic" to begin with?
Ripperger is wrong about the Charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church. Outside the US, in places like India, Africa and Middle East, the CCR is very active and totally under the authority of the Bishop’s conference. Lots of conversions to the Church and sacraments.
In my opinion, Fr. Ripperger is full of hubris and thinks he’s the only exorcist who knows what he’s doing. This is typical of priests who promote Traditional Latin Mass only.
Born and raised as a charismatic.
Also attend to a OPUS DEI school for 12 years.
If you stay in line with what the church has and is teaching, be respectful, be genuine. No tradition not charismatic catholics are more catholics than the other. There is wisdom and live of the Holy Spirit in both perspectives.
God bless you all and keep working in unity within the church and sharing the love and Truth of God all over the world
Me too Juan. Blessed with two sides of derp Catholic spirituality, Opus Fea and openess to the Holy Spirit's gifts. I'd like to see a prelature nullis that combined these two sides of the one coin. Both the traditional and the original so to speak. "The clock watcher is never the man of the hour." as it is said!
These beliefs actually originated in non catholics like protestants and even some heretics... It doesn't matter how much you try to put a soft face on them or try to clean them up they are what they are.
Truly charismatic people are filled with the Holy Spirit’s grace and power. They receive a gift of praise and worship for God which leads to a deeper conversion and prayer. We all need a better understanding of the Holy Spirit and need more of the Holy Spirit in our lives. The Saints received these graces and lived in the power of the Spirit. So it must be good for us all.
Lisa so true!
Too many feelings right now. Not enough penance.
Best comment ^^
Too many feelings WITHOUT penance and too much penance WITHOUT any feeling. According to St. Symeon the New Theologian, if you haven't repented without offering up tears at some point (or, at the very least, being moved enough to offer up tears of another Saint, such as those of the Canaanite Woman) then it is not really repentance - it is merely external and unaware of the impact, reach, and separation caused by a life of sin.
You can't have true contrition with the sense (feeling) of sorrow for disobedience\wrongdoing. An authentic Christian life under the guiding Ight of the Holy Spirit is not one of rigidity or mechanical actions void of human emotion.
I don’t think that is so.. Many people who have been healed from desperate situations are overwhelmed by the love that comes from the healing. This prompts both a changed life and a life overflowing with emotion that is expressed through worship.
I am 61 years old and have been a Catholic my whole life and I have never met a charismatic.
Amy Comey Barrett, Al Kresta, Father John Riccardo
Go to renewal ministries RUclips channel and see what you think 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Father Mark is one
Keep it that way.
Depends on area. I was raised in Puerto Rico and 60%ish of Catholics down there are essentially Charismatics. It’s really huge in Latin America my personal opinion it is honestly just a reaction to the growth of Pentecostalism down there and the Churches reaction to it. They think that by making the mass more like the worship of the protestants it’s going to somehow reduce the amount of people converting out. In my opinion it has exacerbated it. This is coming from someone who was raised as a Latin American Charismatic Pentecostal who converted to Catholicism and now attends the TLM.
If I remember correctly, what Fr Ripperger said was that you shouldnt rely in your feelings when following Christ. As this could only be the beginning of one's spiritual journey. That after God may take away that "feel good" sensation, and you shouldnt think that it meant that you were no longer close to him. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Having attended charismatic groups as well, I believe it is more of an escape to this world which wanted to touch emotions, which that our modern inclination of wanting to be entertained. Though it may be transformative to people, yet I do not think it’s true transformation. As the example they gave, we can never be sure though since what they can only attest is what they see. In my experience and with those people attending as well, the transformation is not lasting and at the very least, hypocritical. After being gone for a long long time, I see people still there and from outside transformed, but you will see they still cling on shamans for healing, and other vices. The previous sin is just migrated/intensified to a newer one. Nevertheless, that’s just my experience.
My 8th grade pre-confirmation weekend “retreat” had a very charismatic vibe. Even then I found it goofy. It appealed to touchy feely emotions and the sort of other group rhythmic dances that reinforce group think and other cult-like behavior commonly found in pre-bronze age cultures.
Father Rippinger is correct in his statement concerning feelings, and emotions. These are not reliable barometers for truth, nor clarity. In fact, quite the opposite. Years ago, during a period when I was a practicing Buddhist in the Mahyana branch. I was practicing Chinese Ch'an meditation coupled with recitation of Amida Buddhas name. One of the warnings repeatedly made to mediators was not to allow emotions, nor feelings to become vexatious or obstructions to truth. They were considered like clouds that come and go. Catholic saints like St.John of the Cross and Saint Theresa of Avila, are renowned among some Buddhists, because they describe in detail what occurs to people on their spiritual journeys and battles. St John of the Cross' Dark Night Of The Soul explains the feeling a soul undergoes when it experiences the mystical ecstasy of God's emanence, but then finds itself in aridity and spiritual dryness, as if God has neglected them or is indifferent. This is all just part of the journey of the deep loving relationship of God and the one who seeks ultimate union with Him.
The Holy Spirit is amazing and powerful. With that said, I think with any "movement," we should always pray and ask for discernment of spirits. It may not be the Charismatic movement itself, but more about specific groups that lack guidance that we have to be careful of.
God works in unique ways for each individual person, he meets them where they are and then lifts them up. He is not married to one way of working, he can use feelings to send a message of affirmation, Trads think all feelings are bad and then given in to the feeling of coldness and indifference.
I'm ex-Charismatic. I was Charismatic for 17 years and Tradismatic for 7 of those years. I left the movement last year because of the problems I noticed with the movement (see below). And now I'm Traditional and won't ever go back to the Charismatic Renewal.
1) Speaking in tongues as practised in the movement does NOT match what St Thomas Aquinas describes in the Summa Theologiae, Second Part of the Second Part, Question 176. The gift is given by the Holy Ghost to who He chooses, whereas the Renewal says it can be taught. Most Charismatics and encouraged to practise rolling syllables around and this leads to people developing this gift.
Secondly, the tongues given at Pentecost had a specific purpose, for the benefit of others and the Apostles received the ability to speak in foreign languages, as this was required to spread the Gospel. The tongues as spoken in the movement cannot be understood by anyone. This is not to say that the charism of tongues is false, the charism exists but it is extremely rare and I never witnessed it despite attending almost a thousand Charismatic prayer sessions. Though I did hear of one instance of the genuine gift where the lady spoke Arabic (a language she did not know) and a man who understood Arabic was present.
2) Over emphasis on feelings and consolations. Praise and worship are consciously or unconsciously designed to evoke emotions, and people are encouraged to testify to signs and miracles. If you receive consolations, you are considered blessed or special.
You are told not to accept suffering and to pray for it to be taken away.
There is little value for the faculties of the soul (intellect, memory and will) and more emphasis on the body (health, financial stability, etc). I was specifically warned many times that the intellect is bad as it leads one to pride. I was also told for many years that my prayer life needed improvement as it was not up to the mark because of the spiritual dryness and because I did not receive consolations. However, several confessors said the opposite- they saw no problem with my daily prayer schedule and my growth in that area.
3) Usurpation of authority of priests in the areas of deliverance and laying of hands. Fr Ripperger covers this in his talks.
There were other issues that I discovered later, after receiving more Traditional teachings on heresies, doctrine and Tradition, but I won't go into that.
I promise you that Trads have problems too. There is no perfect Church movement, everywhere is sinful man, especially right now with lack Catholics leaders.
@@joannathatcares the problems in the Charismatic movement originate from the Pentecostal origins and are therefore quite serious. Most of the Charismatic I knew were poorly catechised and therefore most were susceptible to various heresies.
I did not notice any of the Charismatics I know waiting in line at our Saturday evening confession, except before Easter and Christmas. Not saying they don't frequently go for confession but I did not see any of them.
Yes there are problems in the Trad movement too but of a different nature.
The number of Catholics in the Renewal is significantly greater and that means the errors are spread over a larger population and permeate to even those who are neither Charismatic not Trad.
Also, Charismatics are more likely to play an active role in a parish where both EF and NO Masses are celebrated (readers, organising, parish committees etc).
It just means maybe you didnt see enough, I ve seen and been in different groups in the world, and I ve seen both, good and bad. I also experienced very bad hateful Trad community, I also know many other Catch Communities, groups and everywhere are problems bigger or smaller.
I can tell you that one time I think I could say i was in "perfect charismatic groups", monthly confession, daily rosary and adoration was must there.
You have to know that hurt people have tendency to run from one external to another one. There are countries where students K-12 in public school take 2h weekly Catholic Religion Education and they are still very poorly Catechized .Last your sentence is nonsense you just need to explore Church out of US, not whole world has parish committee.
You may wanna talk to my mom, she could tell you how the "faith" looked when was only latin Mass and nothing else in church. Times were better only because was less opportunity to sin. The Holy Spirit Charismatic movemant was an answer to hard stone traditions that many did not understand and didnt have any relationship with God, even they were at church every Sunday, just to not get in trouble with priest, and neighbors.
I wont discuss with you what is better.this is not place for that, and thast not evenna point. I love Trads too.
Just keep aalwas in mind: " every stick has always two ends"
@@joannathatcares I must clarify on some assumptions you have made about me. I am not from the US so I have no experience of the Church in the US.
My original post was about problems I experienced in the Charismatic movement, not about the Charismatic community. Unfortunately my reply to you ended up talking about the Charismatic community, which I apologise for.
I am certainly not a 'hurt person'. I did not run from the Charismatic Renewal to Traditionalism in search of assuaging any hurt or emotional baggage. I was BOTH Charismatic and Traditional for 7 years. I could have continued with both. But I red-pilled last year during lockdown. So I took more than 6 months to pray, fast, do novenas and rosaries, research, study, discern and consult two Novus Ordo priests (one in the Renewal, one ex-Renewal) and only then did I leave the Renewal. This was not a superficial decision, I took this time because I was leaving behind an 'identity', a 'family' and a community who loved me a lot and had great plans for me in the Renewal and I knew people would be affected.
I was born and brought up Novus Ordo and still go for Novus Ordo masses when TLM is impossible (right now I would have to take a flight to get to the nearest TLM), but I do not receive Holy Communion as they only allow us to receive on the hand. My friends who are pre-Vatican II were not aware that the TLM is 80% different from the NO Mass, they always thought it's exactly the same mass, but in the vernacular (English or whichever local language prevails). They were not aware that if you translated the NO Mass into Latin, it would not match the TLM. And if you translated the TLM Mass into English, it would not match the English NO. Why did they not know it? Because, as one lady said, "We were NEVER told that the Mass had changed. We were so happy it was in English now." This misconception is prevalent - out of 10 non-Trad people you poll, (both Charismatic and non Charismatic), 9 people think the TLM is simply the Latin version of the NO. I know this from personally polling friends.
Regarding kids being badly catechized and there being less opportunity to sin earlier, one must ask, what change brought about poor catechism and more opportunities to sin?
One movement is comparatively recent in age, has its origins in the Protestant Pentecostalism, promotes worship outside of the Eucharist. The other 'movement' (can one call it a movement?) is 2000 years old, was handed down by St Peter, promotes worship as Jesus Himself taught and produced the greatest saints and martyrs in the history of the Church. The choice for me was simple.
@@daricehenriques1200 you are totally misguided if you do not receive Holy Communion because they don’t give it on the tongue. Your impressions of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal are totally misguided as well.
I had a bad experience through a Life in The Spirit seminar through a charismatic parish. At the end 2 people prayed over me, a religious brother in English and a lay person “in tongues”. I remember feeling annoyed by what was coming out from her even though I was familiar with those who pray in tongues. After a minute instead of peace, I became very agitated and distressed. It took me days to recover. Be very careful of just who is “praying” over you as if they have spiritual attachments they may transmit those to you🙏
You couldn't be more correct. Especially when there are a lot of these priests who claimed to be Filled with the Holy Spirit and are sexually Abusing children
yes I had to have an exorcism after a charismatic prayed on me
My experience, I praised and worshipped and never fell to the ground but on my drive home every time i said the name Jesus Christ my body felt electricity like never before and cried. Once it stopped I would say Jesus Christ again and once again felt electricity and poured out crying. This last for about 30min. Wonderful experience.
I was merely touched and fell, like a feather, to the floor! Beautiful experience!
That was a demon.
@@viensolisYou are not God to pass judgement.
I had a similar experience and a vision of Jesus. It couldn't have been a demon when it has brought so much joy and the fruits of the Holy Spirit into my life. I am more devoted to God and my Catholic faith than ever. I should add that I was skeptical up until the moment that it happened to me.
That happens in all sorts of movements
There’s nowhere in the Bible where people are touched and they suddenly fall out and start shaking like a fish, lol.
Praying for the Restoration of Traditional Catholic Faith
I like those
lines "Isn't that narrow minded? Well, it's a narrow road!"
Amazing come back I might add.
So these guys are charismatics. Good to know.
Been to several charismatic prayer meetings and a few charismatic masses. Meetings are one thing, but once they started changing the character of the liturgy, and priests instituted obvious liturgical abuses in the name of pleasing the charismatic community, then they lost me. If you alter the liturgy by pushing for what is way outside the rubrics, then there’s something very suspicious about the movement. Lex orandi, lex credendi.
She needed exorcizing not Protestantism..
"The witness of the holy spirit... that you can't just dismiss..." This language is so vague that it tells you nothing. What witness because people put on a show? Charlie Chaplin had it right when he said that Amy McPherson who helped start the protestant charismatic movement was nothing more than a Show man.
I’ve only been to a charismatic gathering once, but the wild and crazy things like glossolalia that I saw convinced me that many of them were clinically insane
I've been several times. One of those times seemed authentic and heartfelt.
Folofus - so true
How about a debate between fr. Rippeger & fr. Goring on the charismatic movement?
This would be more fruitful than speaking about it in general terms like they did in this video
That would be something!
If I am moved by a sunrise or a sunset or a beautiful symphony and my emotions are expressed, that’s authentic. How much more should we be moved and have an emotional response to God‘s powerful working in our life? A true emotion is an emotion that it’s proportionate to the stimuli. If God touches you deeply I can’t think of anything more stimulating than that! Therefore, we as people endowed with intellect and emotions need to be whole and holy and not stuck in one slice of who we are as human beings ignoring the emotions. That being said, our choices in an act of our will to do what the father wants to do us are the true indicators That may or may not have emotions, pointing to holiness.
What I cannot understand about the CCR is that when the priest says so everybody cries, and don't talk about the speaking in tongues, the unintelligible sounds is unbelievable, also it switches on and off at the cue from the priest. I am speaking esp of I dia. I was a regular till, at the laying of hands, the priest kept pushing me till I had no option but to fall backwards and then I was declared as slain in the spirit, no ways, I was slain by the priest. Also I had a problem with talking in tongues, and I was told to make any rhythmic sounds and the Spirit would understand, and finally when yoga pra times were incorporated to 'expel' the devil, I said enough is enough. Needless to say many folk looked down on me. But now I have found the Traditional, well beloved ahold Mass of my youth and I know I am home. Praise be Jesus forever.
This is intelligently handled. Thank you.
That isn't what father Rippinger was saying... What he was saying was that their emotions they think validate their theology and they ultimately favor this supposed healing mass which is no mass at all over the actual mass.
Life in Christ is a walk of faith, not of emotions. Faith is the steam engine and emotions are the caboose. Only one filled with the Holy Spirit has his or her emotions harnessed, but to be led by emotions can become an uncontrolled prollercoaster ride, which the Holy Spirit cannot sanction.
I'm a Catholic convert. I grew up attending charismatic/Pentecostal churches and saw a good deal of flaky teachings, shallow hype/emotionalism, and sometimes just outright tomfoolery. People often were utterly obsessed with "signs and wonders" and having euphoric experiences -- perhaps it's not even a stretch to say that some of them were outright addicted to those things. And I came to suspect that much of that stuff could easily be chalked up to nothing more than emotional states people work themselves into. I mean, you'll see people 'speaking in tongues' and 'resting in the spirit' even at snake-handling churches -- and I'm sure we'll all agree that those kinds of churches are not of God! To quote the sage Barney Fife: "You know something, this whole thing's psychological!"
As I came into the Catholic Church, I was aware that there had been a charismatic movement in it since the 1960's, yet I felt somewhat wary of getting involved in that because of the extremes and silliness I often encountered among Protestant charismatics. I decided to attend some charismatic prayer group meetings at the parishes I attended, and I found that they seemed to be much more level-headed than many of the Protestant charismatic groups I used to be in. Being centered in the Catholic faith seems to help keep them from getting off track spiritually -- or last I hope so!
I am not a charismatic, not impressed in general BUT, I will tell you that several retreats throughout my 71 years have led me to a true cathartic experiences. In these I felt THE-POWER of the HSPIRIT. Wonderful experiences!
I can myself call a charismatic Catholic. I first experienced God 12 years ago after a real confession during a 5 day Charismatic renewal retreat. I was a non existent Catholic until then . I can clearly differentiate my life before and after like in St Pauls life. The real change other than overcoming additions was the love I felt towards sacraments.
But at the same time I won’t blame if anyone looks at a charismatic suspiciously. The problem lies with when a charismatic fails to differentiate or discern if it is his mind / evil / Holy spirit who is guiding him at a certain moment. A charismatic can be easily fooled by the evil if he cannot discern who is guiding him at a certain point in time. This is because its true the Holy spirit can guide him in a particular highly visible manner and the evil will try to trick him in the same way . And occasionally his mind will also play games. Charismatic renewal to me is like a kite flying in the sky which needs the string of sacraments under the control of Church.
Being a charismatic catholic is an added bonus in leading a Holy life this shouldn’t be forgotten.
The problem with claiming to be a charismatic Catholic is number one the charismatic movement comes from protestants. Number 2 many of these charismatic catholics claim that they do healing masses as something extra or special. I'm sorry to say it but all masses are healing masses if followed the way the tradition has given them to us.
The fact that these charismatics are claiming that they have a special mass is actually more in line with nausticism or some other heresy.
♥️
You can call it “an outpouring of Protestantism.” That would be accurate.
I experience the Holy Spirit thanks to the Spanish Charismatic group
Yes thanks be to God me as well brother! I once was lost but now i am found! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@servus_incognitus Yes it is mate, just because you don't like charismatics doesn't mean that he is wrong.
Are you in Spain?
@Don Espoleto I agree with you, now, but as a lukewarm, going through the motions type of Catholic most of my adult life I wouldn't have. I had a major conversion through the Charismatics, and it has changed my whole life. The beauty of the sacraments, the bible and tradition have come alive for me now, and I can speak to others about Jesus and our faith in a way I never could before. I do not blame or judge you if you don't think it's for you (I didn't think it was for me either), but I am grateful that the Charismatics woke me out of my stupor.
I don't agree with Fr Mark Goring on this at all, but i'm glad to hear his stance.
Now with regards to Matt Fred's story that he shared... She could have been in an emotional place and a psychological place and even a psychiatric place for that matter where she was open to anyone who would have offered to pray for her at that moment. It didn't have to be the charismatic movement.
If we really want to go down this rabbit hole there are many muslims who claim the same experience and yet that doesn't make them any more true.
If we want to go down the rabbit hole even further we could say that she could have been having a manic episode or some sort of psychological crisis which actually makes her more open to receive such is such changes.
None of this of course provides any shred of evidence for the carazmatic beliefs. Forgive my spellcheck I'm using voice to text so text so not all the words are spelled right.
Nonetheless what we must consider is the fact that 1 of the 1st charismatic people was actually Tertullian who had to leave the Catholic Church in order to get into these beliefs.
I asked the question of this: If the Holy Spirit manifests itself through the church then why is it that the 1st charismatic christians were actually outside of the church? This actually provides evidence that the protestant church has the Holy Spirit more than the Catholic Church if you accept these beliefs.
I would argue that it goes even further than that though because historically these beliefs actually came through heretics.
Furthermore these charismatic people claim particularly these charismatic catholics claim that is they engage in something called a healing mass. Where they do the praying over people and the slain and the spirit and the speaking in tongues. By the way the way in which they claim to speak in tongues actually violates every principle Paul ever spoke about in The Bible but that's another story.
However I must point out that catholics and orthodox christians have for 2000 years claim that the mass itself is healing. That the healing comes through the Eucharist so for these people to say that it actually comes through speaking in tongues and all of this other stuff is actually a heresy. Nowhere did Jesus ever say that and nowhere has the Catholic Church ever said that.
I feel like the apostles were charismatic and filled with the spirit. As long as they don’t do their own “thing,” I don’t see the problem with it
Considering its origins... I'd stay CLEAR of it if I were you. _(That doesn't mean rejecting charismatic gifts: you just better DISCERN those that are legit.)_
Matt. As powerful and valid as the conversion of this lady that you know is, how do you know the conversion did not happen despite the extra emotional fluff? I am not putting aside authentic, holy emotions (which are guided by reason). I do believe those exist. But what do properly ordered emotions have to do with falling to the floor, speaking in a way that makes no syntactical or grammatical sense (if those were tongues of angels, the language would be rational and we would come to understand it with time), or a tendency to put aside reverence?
I think the charismatic movement should be analyzed through reason.
When you experience the power of God flow through your body it is an emotional experience. The first church experienced this spoke in tongues laid hand on the sick. They taught God's word which was always followed by the power of God and people were healed. Show me where this happens in so called traditional masses which are man made by the likes of Pharisees and sadducees who Jesus rebuked and called a brood of vipers. It's not the language the mass is spoken in. It's the presents of the holy spirit of God matters.
What about those who attend the traditional Latin Mass is pharisaical, exactly? Abiding by the traditions of the Church is not pharisaical, for these traditions were handed down to us throughout the centuries for the sole purpose of worshipping God in the way He asks of us through the Church.
I had a horrible experience in the Charismatic cult called The People of Hope in Warren, NJ. They are now no longer considered a cult but a lay faithful group which is very upsetting. I left the church for many years because of them and swore the Catholic Church was demonic. I'm trying to be less judgemental because I love Father Mark Goring. I know he wouldn't lie.
One must pray for direction from the Holy Spirit within not just go with the flow. Can't just go with the emotions. We pray in the Spirit for God's instruction, to be refilled and refined by him.
It's fr. Ripperger, not Rippenger
As someone who attended a Born Again Protestant fellowship, this isn't for me. I do not discriminate other people's preferences but the first thing that made me move away from the Evangelical Protestant groups is their music. The speaking in tongues thing also turned me off. I study languages and I have never heard them speak any natural language. All I hear was glossolalia. If that's the type of music the Catholic charismatics perform then to each his own. I just hope that the Holy Eucharist is still their highest form of worship and they stop claiming that they speak in tongues when they don't.
The charismatic movement is basically belonging to the protestants, the believer's. Marian movement of priests is basically of mother mary n of the Catholic Church.
Thank you Matt Fradd! We love and miss Fr. Mark at the Catholic Charismatic Center here in Houston Texas...you were here back a few years ago and you took pics with my homeschool kids, Courageous & Chastity...Praise the Lord! Shout out to Regina Caeli Academy here in Houston too...we love it! As a Charismatic there is a balance to everything...love to play my tambourine & Praise the Lord!
😊🙏🏼💒✝️💖🕊🔥📿🌺
The charismatic movement is guided by the holy spirit miracles do happen at charismatic prayer meetings I seen a young man in wheel chair for over two years get up and walk after he was. Prayed with by a gifted person in the healing ministery
@@marychapman8307
Amen Mary! Praise God for that young man being able to walk!
😊🙏🏼👏🏼
I’ve experienced healing as well- Emotionally, Spiritually, and Physically as well. Praise the Lord Mary- Miracles do Happen!
😊🙏🏼🕊💒💖
I very much enjoy the Latin Mass, charismatic movement, lifeteen, and other rites. I am so glateful. As a teen, I would have left the church if it wasn't for Lifteen.
I refuse to choose between being charismatic and trad. Both are beautiful and can convert a soul. I credit the charismatic renewal with the my radical reversion to the Catholic faith, and that reversion has piqued my interest in the Latin Mass and ALL things to do with God. All of the things that I never was interested in before at all.
Who is causing and making all of these things for us to bow down to ?
I prefer to call it resting in the Spirit. When it has happened to me it is the most peace I have ever experienced.
Yeah ok, but they came from Protestant pentecostalism
I’m a Marian Charismatic....I totally agree with you Father Mark about the “falling down” phenomenon. Another name for it is the pushing ministry. I’ve been slain in the Spirit and I have had people trying to push me over and I know the difference.
I was baptised in the Spirit 40 years ago but the greatest leap in my faith occurred five years ago when I did the St Louis de Montfort consecration to Mary. Mary makes you Holy!
When Charismatics proudly tell you they’ve been baptised in the Spirit, I think.....Big deal, Mary is married to the Holy Spirit. Beat that Charismatics !
I find that Renewal Ministries is extremely balanced and not at all over the top emotional. Ralph Martin is one of the founders of this organisation and he has more degrees than you can poke a stick at.
It's not a competition lol
Another priest from Canada, Fr. Tardif, long ago proved this.
Fr John Hardon nailed this one. Said there were no charasmatic catholics until some catholics got mixed up with some protestants. It’s a protestant movement.
I watched this video because the title interests me. I was charismatic Catholic for years. I ultimately left all faith behind, and a large reason for that is because I'm convinced that everything I saw in those years was probably explainable in terms of human emotions and psychology. Certainly in my own life I think this is so, and I doubt it was different in anything I witnessed with other people. I don't believe that it takes divine intervention to instantaneously change someone's life, as the interviewer recounted in his story about the woman who abused him. Given the right circumstances and disposition of someone's mind, they might do it themselves, even if they are convinced that another agent must be helping them. I think that the potential of human emotion and psychology is what's being dismissed here. I don't claim to know this, but again, it is what I now think.
I never understood what was attractive about Charismatic Catholicism. The music is God awful for one. but there are good in it, Fr Goring included
The main point of discussion has been left out...that is with regard to speaking in tongues...how that has been called out by Fr.Rippeger as being pure nonsense in the way it has been promoted in most of the charismatic renewal sessions. Would be great to have this discussed.
Hands imposition by lay people is heresy. It is only valid by a priest or bishop.
Priceless priest reaction 1:48 no kidding, yipes! :P
Thank you for this. I was thinking the same things.
This falls under the header of meeting people where they are at. You cant start a fire without a spark. Why would we refrain from providing a spark when this might be the only place for them to come into experience with the Holy Spirit? All for fear they might feel more than we are comfortable with? Any time you bring someone into intimate communion with God....you are living your calling to "go and make disciples".
People who talk in tongues are very often cursing God in ancient languages without know they are doing so.
Don't judge everyone according to one particular group.
I fear that Modernism contributed a lot in the state of the Church right now. A lot to do on how we practice our faith. Modernism and Tradition collides and that is why there is so much Chaos in the church.
Could u then use the same analogy to explain the efficacy of other religions coz to some extent, there have been converts whose lives were changed after going into a religion
There is an excellent video/audio on RUclips of Dr. Peter Kreeft talking on the subject of charisms, tongues, healing, etc...if you lunch charisms Peter Kreeft in the search bar ot should come up. It is an interview between Dave Nevins and Kreeft. It answered so many of the questions I had about the Charismatic.
Also thank you Matt for your comments on having a closed mind towards the folks who are quite fond of the Latin Mass. I have a handful of friends who are very into the Tridentine and I have only gone once, and formed very strong opinions (mostly negative) towards that movement. How ignorant and closed minded of me! Yikes! I will have to remain vigilant against such biases. Thsnks again, your channel is amazing. God bless you and keep you.
Excellent analysis about the charismatic movement by my Matt. I have been in the charismatic movement and I can witness to the truth of the Holy Spirit and how it works in our Lives. I have witnessed the different charismas including the gift of tongs. I love father Ripperger and I'm one of his followers but he is unfortunately wrong about the charismatic movement. God will show him the truth and he will come out and retract from his comments.
Wonderful story! Thankyou! The power of the Holy Spirit!! Phew!
Isn't Dr.Ralph Martin a charismatic?
Good question. : )
If so, he fits the bill for being Charismatic and Orthodox.
Faith is a knowledge not a emotion
I always ask if the Holy Ghost was just as active in converting souls before the Charismatic Renewal. Maybe without intention, it looks like the Charismatic Renewal is meant to renew the Holy Ghost more than holy people.
How can you tell the difference between someone that genuine has experienced the Holy Spirit vs someone that simply feels really strongly that they did?
The fruits. It's true that our imagination and feelings can deceive us, but only the Holy Spirit can produce fruits such as conversion, penance, good works, etc. I won't say that to experience a strong feeling is irrelevant, but rather that it is not something that must be present to discern that the Holy Spirit has operated. In other words, God gave us the ability to feel feelings, and we must surrender that to the work of God on us. At times, He might use it to boost the virtues on us (and hey, not only nice feelings, but also feelings such as sadness or culpability can be virtue drivers); and, at times, He makes us experience no feelings, think on the so called "dark night" experiences of the saints. Bottom line: there is nothing bad on trying to look for an experience with the Holy Spirit, actually is something desirable, as long as we don't minimize experience to just feeling and, if so, happens, praised be the Lord! Why not to desire it? Weren't we called friends of God? Wasn't the Holy Spirit called the Consoler? The best way to respond to the grace is to cooperate so the fruits happen; the best way to fine tune the discernment of the feeling is to grow on praying life and sacramental life; and the best experience (at times providentially felt) is not a something but the very dwelling of the Holy Spirit on us.
@@cristobalgomezgutierrez8546
So to clarify, the symmetry breakers are:
conversion
Penance
Good works
@@creatinechris those to start (I intentionally put "etc."). If you are looking for something measurable and enduring in time, I would point you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 1832: "The fruits of the Spirit are perfections that the Holy Spirit forms in us as the first fruits of eternal glory. The tradition of the Church lists twelve of them: 'charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity.'"
If you keep intrigued on something that happened to you, I suggest you to talk about it with a priest of your confidence. He would probably be interested on what happened next. One might be in presence of a miracle, but if that doesn't change our behavior towards God, is the same than not having had that experience... or worse, because we have refused the work of God. Besides, suppose it was not done _directly_ by God but permitted (He permitted you have imagined it). If this help us change our behavior towards God, it has the same effect. This is also licit, like when one do a spiritual reading of the Bible (Lectio Divina) and the reading touches our feelings. The important thing there is that one should be transformed.
In my case, since I have a tendency to be skeptical, if this ever happens to me, I talk about it with my spiritual director in the next opportunity. But we all should arrive to a point of holiness where there should not be doubt and act promptly. Take the case of St. Joseph who was told in dreams to flight with his family to Egypt. A random husband would have not believed so easy, and a random wife would have said "you've gota be kidding". But they departed by night.
By the way, I like you use the term "symmetry breaker". It reminds me when Bishop Barron uses the term "spiritual physics".
God, the Virgin and saint Joseph bless you.
@@cristobalgomezgutierrez8546 yup so in one sentence can you simplify one *measurable* difference between someone with the Holy Spirit and someone that just thinks they have the Holy Spirit?
Will they be more _charitable_ for example?
@@creatinechris Yes. But with caveats. Over-simplifying the spiritual realm to things one can measure have the risk of not capturing it on its whole. It would be like trying to measure beauty in art. Hence it is a good idea to have an expert-independent observer (e.g. a priest) to guide us.
Besides, the Holy Spirit is granted from baptism and, provided that one is not in state of mortal sin (from which one can recover with Confession), it is correct to say that every baptised person has the Holy Spirit, whether the person feels Him or not. Given that fact, a more interesting question to me, rather than if the person feels or has the Holy Spirit, is if the person is growing in his/her relationship with Him, leting Him grow inside and becoming more like Christ.
A hug.
Why in Lord's name did you invite Fr. Mark Goring? YOU did all the talking....
There is nothing Catholic about the present day Charismatic movement since it began with protestantism. Therefore, the charismatic movement has protestant roots, not Christian roots.
For they profess to be wise they are fools Roman 1 22
My wife and I are currently going through "Life in the Spirit" 7 week seminar which is a charismatic catholic thing where we learn to understand the Holy Spirit. Going to confession, turning your life away from sin and then having hands laid on us and getting " baptized in the spirit" is totally legit. This past Monday was the 4/7 week where people laid hands on us. I am not an emotional guy, I'm a traditional catholic who has a psych degree and promised myself that I wasn't going to be one of those crazy Christians who fall down LOLOL yeah right. After only like 5 seconds I felt a wave hit me as if I was under water fighting the tide. I bent down and didn't fall, then after another 5 or so seconds there was a stronger more long and constant push that I couldn't back up from so I just accepted it pushed be back and downward and I ended up on my back on the ground haha. When I got up from the ground I felt like I was really drunk and couldn't walk straight so I sat at the closest chair to me. To describe the wave further it was as if someone came uncomfortably right up to my face into my personal bubble. It was all very subtle and not very emotional but 100% real and happened. I would highly suggest all Catholics giving it a try, not just fot this faith increasing experience but for understanding confession and allowing the Holy Spirit to flourish without sin suffocating your transformation.
*Prayer is boundless, it is an invitation by The Holy Spirit. It is directed, guided, supplied and supported entirely by Holy Spirit. If anyone impose a particular style of Prayer, at all times, like Charismatic prayer alone, then we restrict and lose the beauty of the intimacy of the prayer.*
To put it simple, the highest form of prayer is a "Gethsemane experience" for the follower of Christ , because Christ took His Disciples with Him to witness and partake in the intimate prayer life of God and His only beloved Son.
*Fr. Mark Goring, why do you have only Pope Emeritus picture on the wall, what about picture of Holy Father Francis?. _Remember your actions are more than your words in front of humanity and in the eyes of God._
I agree with all of what you are saying but why then do most Catholics not accept you can be a totally genuine Christian, have a relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ his son and be baptized in the Holy Spirit when you are not a Catholic? That is wrong and very judgemental and very arrogant.
Yes, it's emotions + protestantism.
What is really the Church teaching regarding Charismatic 'Gift of Tounge'? Should Tradismatic mix, without that....praying in tounges? Maybe praying like the charismatic but in known language like (latin). what do you think?
Charismatic is Protestant...
The mass when áre going. More charismátic.H Appen more happy and more ,dance in the temple on the tome.
I initially found that the tongues issue is largely fake, and I found many people dissenting against human vitae yet speaking in tongues, and I found many people using protestant terminology....also that the protestants see it as a gateway into stealing catholics...wherever is Jesus in the Host is there is the Holy Spirit so why seek him in babbling gas? every increase in sanctifying grace causes an increase in the holy spirit and love ...
I’m a Vetus Ordo parishioner and I absolutely love Fr Mark Goring, his preaching, spirit and love for the Lord. Full of the Holy Ghost 🔥
The charismatic renewal movement in the UK in the 60's began in Roman Catholic Church. Tremendously influential.
So beautiful!!!
to patricia s thank you for your reply and keeping it courteous. If you are a protestant and stay that way then you will not enter Heaven. As I think I’ve mentioned only Catholic’s go to Heaven mostly via Purgatory. Jesus God himself founded but one Church the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH on the infallible Rock of Peter two millennia ago. If anyone wilfully rejects the holy Catholic Church they are damned it’s as simple as that. There’s very sadly division on Earth but not in Heaven. There’s one holy Catholic Church but 40,000 protestant cults! God bless you and all protestants please come home to the mystical body of Christ on Earth the holy Catholic Church. Praise Jesus and Mary always!!!
Fr Amorth, the exorcist, wrote highly of charismatic prayer groups.
This conversion that woman had sounds like a psychosis… I hope she’s fine…
The church needs the power of the holy spirit and servants of fire with gifts 🎁
The church age is over..
What are we into now in your opinion? A coming chastisement and renewal, a la Our Lady of Good Success and Fatima, or the End Times? In your opinion, what happens at the end of the "Church Age?"
@@Hammett175 .. The end of the church age is just that and little else.. You have to separate the church from saving grace which still finds a way to save those who are God's elect ,chosen and predestined to be with the Lord forever.
Even retreat centers have charismatic prayers.
Charismatic Orthodoxy makes great Catholicism.
Look no further to Africa. Lots of charisms there.
Ave Maria Radio, for that matter a lot of Catholic radio networks/stations Ave Maria University are, while not charismatic in of themselves, have undeniable connections/heritage of the movement.
Shocker: the charismatic movement is god punishing people, and giving them the best music, best everything, all the emotional experiences etc. Its fake.
It is very odd that people would be upset that worshippers of Jesus would celebrate verbally and joyfully and audibly as they walk up to receive the body and the blood.
Maybe examine yourself and ask why you don’t feel the same.
cringe
I would say whoever doesn't have a an experience with the holy spirit would give a human opinion.. God is mysterious in many ways , we can't say what is real and what is not.... and say this is "incorrect " because we don't understand...I've seen many conver.... to the lord by charismatic movements
Stay Catholic! TLM or a reverence holy sacrifice of the mass. We’re Catholic not Protestant. Either were Catholic or not!
I personally think that God actually doesnt care much for anyone from what ive personally seen. I thought i was becoming a prophet. To work for God. It turned out to be false prophecy, and wierd. Talk about scary, and a scary, mean hearted God. Instesd of simply telling people, instead he orchistrated this massive punishment, brought millions and millions of dollars to bring this elabrate bullshit together.
Must feel pretty stupid for all that babbeling right??
Ban the charismatic movement
Encourage the charismatic movement
Its demons
I take Fr Ripperger with a grain of salt. He's off on a few topics, especially when it comes to some of the stuff he says about NFP and the marriage debt.
How so?
It has been a while since I listened but his definition of "just cause" for using NFP basically means you'd have to be nearly dead before you can use it licitly. Maybe it's been too long since I listened and maybe I am misquoting but that's what I remember. A few of my friends have been quite damaged by some things they have heard from him, some women saying that he implies that they are not allowed to say no to any request for sex. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
I should add, request by their husband*
@@dompernickel I've heard similar rumors but can't say for sure. He's still a good guy but we should always ultimately put our faith in the infallible church as a whole and not every word a priest says.
I have no hate for him, but he does tend to say wild things with no sources to back them.
Fifth 🤠😉
The Charasmatic movement is demonic.
Father Ripperger is kind of a jerk. Fame has gone to his head.
I was raised in a religion that did a whole lot of emotional appealing, and I grew sick of it and very aware of what that was. Spent almost two decades in atheism, therefore, for one thing that would never had worked for me as a means to get back to believing in Jesus Christ, that would be an attempt to catch me by the emotions. After almost two decades in militant atheism, I slowly started to become in peace with religion, to a point where I could give it another chance. One couple that was involved in the charismatic movement, and knew me very well invited me to a retreat during Carnival (I live in Brazil) back a few years ago. Because I knew them and respected them, I gave it a chance, and decided to make it my opportunity "to give God a chance" too, as I used to think back then. The retreat lasted all 4 days of carnival, which I kept praying in my heart "please, God, don't ever try to catch my by any emotional appeal, because that won't work at all for me!". What happened to me in the last night of the retreat is beyond my capacity to understand, it was absolutely not self suggested. It was not mere feeling! I felt the intense love of God, to a point where I thought I could die, I could die of sheer love. A love so absolutely intense that it felt (and I saw, heard, and experienced with every sense of my body too) as if a huge Sun like being was engulfing me and I was intensely burning... burning of pure Love. My cup overflowing to a point I thought I couldn't take it anymore. For days and days straight, whenever I closed my eyes, I could see this Sun like being, and hear as if a rushing of a huge water fall. Without words, without someone ever having to tell me anything, I learned with that experience that God isn't just a loving being, but LOVE itself, I learned that he forgave me for years of blasphemies. That experience invited me to join His Church, and begin a new walk of life, which would later on take me to the Tradition. As many mistakes one can find in some things the Charismatic movement, I will never ever cease to be grateful for their intense work of charity. God chooses whatever He wills as a tool for the conversion of his children, and I know His hand is stretched towards the Charismatic movement.
Powerful, powerful testimony. Thank you for sharing!
@@karensstuff6074 thank you, Karen!
Praise God!
Wow! So powerful! Thank you for sharing!
Beautiful testimony brother may God continue to bless you!! God is good!!! 🙏🏼❤️
Do a show on the Jesus Youth movement, Matt. It's about Charismatic Renewal in the spirit. I came back to the faith only due to the movement.
Malayali......♥️
It's a truth that many came to church because of Charismatic renewal.