20:25 i remember watching stork and larva fight it out on this map once until nearly all minerals where mined out ,probably one of the best zvp's ive ever seen.
13:36, that game was epic... Snow had lost so much in the beginning and after he won I said, "if he can win that game from there, I can do anything" it was that crazy. So its emotionally important for me, but I agree with the points artosis points out.
Yeah, the games often got sloppy and low eco toward the end because everything is separated by those buildings and eggs and D webs, so it is really hard to rotate your army to stop your bases from getting killed. ZvP especially on this map would just be constant knocking down and rebuilding of expos.
Gold Rush had lots of good games. I remember a PvZ where the P to the right was trapped in his base and surrounded his expo with cannons, storm and DAs and managed to win because the zerg just couldn't kill him, despite owning the rest of the map. Eye of the Storm reminds me of the Flash vs JD map they were playing when the power went out.
This is how I would rate them: S: Kakaru, Badlands A: Iceworld, Bengalas B: Ragnasaur, Scorpion critter, Twilight, Space C: Rhynodon, Desert, Jungle D: Ashworld, Ursadon F: Instalation
@@Dziaji They usually end up looking boring because of lack of doodads and very long narrow corridors. It takes a lot of time to move from one place to the other. There are also no large ramps and the doors and turrets can be placed in other tilesets too. I really want to like installation but I can't.
I think this tier list should've had an extra row called "guilty pleasure". There's quite a few ASL maps which weren't really good maps by any objective measure but they still gave us great games (Third World being probably the best example, almost literally every single game on that map was fire).
Commenter was right, go watch the ArtosisCasts channel. It's really good. I watch it more than this channel. He's just finishing up the CNSL, a below ASL tier league. RT does a solo cast of a map a day and wrapping up from end of November. Sounds like he has lot planned going forward.
I'm glad that Arty didn't disrespect Inner Coven and instead put it so high up. Season 9 was the absolute best season of ASL bar none and Inner Coven gave the best games ever. I'm a little sad he doesn't remember SKULL DESERT but that's okay
EVERY ASL MAP EVER* except Destination (s2), Tau Cross (s4), Heartbreak Ridge and Optimizer (2 maps where Flash 2:0d RPvP vs Snow in s10), and all new s15 maps. Cool story.
Would love to see a video of grandma nerd reviewing all the flash runs in asl and how many times the map makers tried to screw him and a review of his games
I think Fighting Spirit deserves to be in meh tier. I think the bias was very strong in that one, but similar to circuit breaker it DID at one point have incredible games on it.
Think Ascension is a fairly decent map, it had some very good games on it and I remember some absurd game from Flash on Tripod that really let you see just how GODLY he really is but think it's fair to put it at Decent at least.
normally the donations are dumb, but the first one was spot on. "terran maps don't exists" is also statistically unlikely, beside seasons "anti Flash".
It's actually true. I think the reason is because a Terran favored map would have a lot of obstacles and an easily defensible 3rd and 4th, and that would make ZvP broken because zerg could easily set up contains and/or get 4 gasses too easily. In the lower skill range, it would be fine to have some Terran maps sprinkled in, but in the pro level, Terran favoredness in maps is too exploitable.
Protoss could always veto the Terran favored map, unless there were multiple. We low apm Terrans are just doomed to fight an uphill battle TvP forever.
My first thought was Neo Arkanoid needed to be very far down. And should he "who thought this was a good idea" it was so imbalanced and not interesting at all
It's positionally imbalanced which mean some spawn locations are better than others. From a Terran pov, some positions are very hard to fit Turrets in to defend Muta in TvZ, and the 3rd base is too far to take in TvP. Same for Protoss. The only race that doesn't suffer from it is Zerg.
I don't mind it that much. You can always put a ton of mines and spread a few tanks at the 3rd, and that helps deal with recall, and you can block the far ramp to the 3rd with depots, and that will slow down a ground army for long enough to get your units over there. I really like how the middle is buildable, so you can throw up turrets and depots to support your defense. It's really a shame that modern maps never have much build-able terrain outside of the bases. It makes TvP so difficult because, without being able to spam Turrets, you need science vessels to deal with arbs and they often will just stasis it, and force you to waste all your scans. Some maps, it can be really ahrd to even fit alll your buildings in the buildable terrain without everything getting all clogged up. If the centers of maps were buildable, you could save some space in your main by making depots to support the defense of your natural and 3rd. It seems like te Terran was designed with this in mind because they made the depot so large compared to the pylon.
I have to disagree with Third World. It gave some of the best games in all of ASL. And although imbalanced it wasn't so lopsided like the other ones you have in that tier.
I was interested in what u gonna say about sparkle and its absolute bullshit as usual 7:44 tvp terran has 52% in the whole tournament, so no, not only flash could win, but many other terrans too. TvZ also no, there were terrans who beat zerg in the whole tournament, 23.8% winrate, sure its not high, but its nowhere near 0. Check your facts before you speak them Arty. Source: Liquipedia Sparkle
@@spinvn That's only because the most skilled players in history have been Terrans. Oov, Boxer, Last, Flash, and now Royal. If you look at any level lower than Pros, it is quite obvious that none of the maps are Terran favored.
Terran has 60% win rate vs Protoss and 48% win rate vs Zerg on Sparkle according to sponbbang - the Korean BW stats recording website. Stop making up facts Arty.
This might be the nerdiest tier list I’ve ever seen.
He can go nerdier. Also tier listing their names was needy too
Artosis Is the most nerd gamer out there. Xd
You've never seen a waifu tier list it sounds like
I didn't know Vermeer (02:10) was a collab between the map maker and pros of all three races... wish more game studios did that.
20:25 i remember watching stork and larva fight it out on this map once until nearly all minerals where mined out ,probably one of the best zvp's ive ever seen.
Would love to see one of these for the OSL maps! Anyone remember demon’s Forrest? I believe it’s the only map ever removed mid season lol.
Is it sad that I knew pretty much everyone of these maps lol. And was naming ones from before ASL.
Is it sad that I knew pretty much everyone of these maps lol. And was naming ones from before ASL.
I know what you mean bro. The good old days had some wack maps. I think most the maps from the first few seasons didn’t even have nat expos lol.
13:36, that game was epic... Snow had lost so much in the beginning and after he won I said, "if he can win that game from there, I can do anything" it was that crazy. So its emotionally important for me, but I agree with the points artosis points out.
The comment about grandma looking through old photos was so on point
Plasma had ONE redeeming trait: Flash got a lot of trolling done with it.
Gold rush has two memories attached to it. Tasteless naming it Skull desert and Larva's proxy hatchery.
We need ASL maps with teleport and Neutral CC’s. Lol
what would a neutral CC do?
@@Dziaji Infested Terrans.
@Renzo Alarcón Actually insane idea. As if there is not enough reason for Artosis to hate protoss.
I love it.
@@karpai5427 gotcha
so glad you gave Inner Coven some respect. Some of the games on that map were insane.
Yeah, the games often got sloppy and low eco toward the end because everything is separated by those buildings and eggs and D webs, so it is really hard to rotate your army to stop your bases from getting killed. ZvP especially on this map would just be constant knocking down and rebuilding of expos.
Gold Rush had lots of good games. I remember a PvZ where the P to the right was trapped in his base and surrounded his expo with cannons, storm and DAs and managed to win because the zerg just couldn't kill him, despite owning the rest of the map.
Eye of the Storm reminds me of the Flash vs JD map they were playing when the power went out.
27:45 ironically it was apparently named after an overwatch map, which was hated and was taken out fo the map pool
You should rank the tilesets (including critters) next lol
This is how I would rate them:
S: Kakaru, Badlands
A: Iceworld, Bengalas
B: Ragnasaur, Scorpion critter, Twilight, Space
C: Rhynodon, Desert, Jungle
D: Ashworld, Ursadon
F: Instalation
Honestly, it is better to use space tileset for micro maps without buildings than to use instalation tile set.
@@karpai5427 why?
@@Dziaji They usually end up looking boring because of lack of doodads and very long narrow corridors. It takes a lot of time to move from one place to the other. There are also no large ramps and the doors and turrets can be placed in other tilesets too.
I really want to like installation but I can't.
@@karpai5427 gotcha, that's probably why it isn't really used outside of "use map settings" maps.
I think this tier list should've had an extra row called "guilty pleasure". There's quite a few ASL maps which weren't really good maps by any objective measure but they still gave us great games (Third World being probably the best example, almost literally every single game on that map was fire).
Plasma was so gross. Every time it came up in an ASL match I hated it
I remember Stork went and built gates right in his opponents main and won.
Let's see this for GSL maps! Looking forward to the Z-tier for Steppes of War haha.
Still waiting for the rankings of the ID's of the greatest GSL players!
What makes fighting spirit so bad? I love that map
disapponted that Garglon isnt in here 😑 everyone seems to forget about that one
Commenter was right, go watch the ArtosisCasts channel. It's really good. I watch it more than this channel.
He's just finishing up the CNSL, a below ASL tier league. RT does a solo cast of a map a day and wrapping up from end of November. Sounds like he has lot planned going forward.
There was a crazy larva vs rain game on gold rush
That shameless plug arto did after he donated as cyber psycho was nutz
Yeah, way too obvious. He should have thrown in a comment about Luigi's butt to throw us off the scent.
I'm glad that Arty didn't disrespect Inner Coven and instead put it so high up. Season 9 was the absolute best season of ASL bar none and Inner Coven gave the best games ever. I'm a little sad he doesn't remember SKULL DESERT but that's okay
21:47 what abt the neo version tho?
Artosis is a secret zerg main
You didn't explain why fighting spirit was instant bottom tier, liquipedia seem to love it
Really enjoyed this thanks
I wonder where Sparkle will be placed, hmmmm!
I want a kespa era list as well
EVERY ASL MAP EVER* except Destination (s2), Tau Cross (s4), Heartbreak Ridge and Optimizer (2 maps where Flash 2:0d RPvP vs Snow in s10), and all new s15 maps. Cool story.
Don’t forget andromeda
Artosis judgment comes from the terran gameplay point of view. From the spectator point of view, most of the ''bad'' maps gave the most amazing games.
generally conceptually yesterday
Would love to see a video of grandma nerd reviewing all the flash runs in asl and how many times the map makers tried to screw him and a review of his games
What's wrong with FS? I thought it was just a standard, fairly balanced vanilla map...
Its a bit harder for Terran so arty has to cry over it. Especially since he blizzard put it into their ladder and he got rekt on it.
@@Hyperion856 xd xd xd
Can you do tier list about the spels or ups?
What is above "S" Tier for Fastest Map Po$$ible???
I think Fighting Spirit deserves to be in meh tier. I think the bias was very strong in that one, but similar to circuit breaker it DID at one point have incredible games on it.
Think Ascension is a fairly decent map, it had some very good games on it and I remember some absurd game from Flash on Tripod that really let you see just how GODLY he really is but think it's fair to put it at Decent at least.
Check your Protoss privilege, bro 😤
you can hear the reaver drop ptsd
What about camelot and andromeda from S2?
I remember you and tasteless cracking up over skull desert. Memorable cast, maybe not memorable games
Wut? Sparkle was terran favoured in TvP lmao.
And ofc, the only map to be a teir above all others; Big Game Hunters.
normally the donations are dumb, but the first one was spot on. "terran maps don't exists" is also statistically unlikely, beside seasons "anti Flash".
It's actually true. I think the reason is because a Terran favored map would have a lot of obstacles and an easily defensible 3rd and 4th, and that would make ZvP broken because zerg could easily set up contains and/or get 4 gasses too easily. In the lower skill range, it would be fine to have some Terran maps sprinkled in, but in the pro level, Terran favoredness in maps is too exploitable.
Protoss could always veto the Terran favored map, unless there were multiple. We low apm Terrans are just doomed to fight an uphill battle TvP forever.
My first thought was Neo Arkanoid needed to be very far down. And should he "who thought this was a good idea" it was so imbalanced and not interesting at all
Can someone name an example why FS is bad? I hear people say vague things like it's old and outdated. What is a specific example why it's unbalanced?
It's positionally imbalanced which mean some spawn locations are better than others. From a Terran pov, some positions are very hard to fit Turrets in to defend Muta in TvZ, and the 3rd base is too far to take in TvP. Same for Protoss. The only race that doesn't suffer from it is Zerg.
I don't mind it that much. You can always put a ton of mines and spread a few tanks at the 3rd, and that helps deal with recall, and you can block the far ramp to the 3rd with depots, and that will slow down a ground army for long enough to get your units over there. I really like how the middle is buildable, so you can throw up turrets and depots to support your defense.
It's really a shame that modern maps never have much build-able terrain outside of the bases. It makes TvP so difficult because, without being able to spam Turrets, you need science vessels to deal with arbs and they often will just stasis it, and force you to waste all your scans. Some maps, it can be really ahrd to even fit alll your buildings in the buildable terrain without everything getting all clogged up. If the centers of maps were buildable, you could save some space in your main by making depots to support the defense of your natural and 3rd. It seems like te Terran was designed with this in mind because they made the depot so large compared to the pylon.
bro i love plasma
I have to disagree with Third World. It gave some of the best games in all of ASL. And although imbalanced it wasn't so lopsided like the other ones you have in that tier.
"Protos privilege"😭😂
Wild how many Artosis viewers are just oblivious to their own P/Z bias
This protoss privilege aaaaaaao
Ascension was a good map it should at the very least be in the decent map categroy cmon...
Plasma was the best ladder map ever. :D
Flash beat Snow on Sparkle :) Idk about TvZ though.. I don't remember any Terran beating Z on sparkle
love it
I was interested in what u gonna say about sparkle and its absolute bullshit as usual 7:44 tvp terran has 52% in the whole tournament, so no, not only flash could win, but many other terrans too. TvZ also no, there were terrans who beat zerg in the whole tournament, 23.8% winrate, sure its not high, but its nowhere near 0. Check your facts before you speak them Arty. Source: Liquipedia Sparkle
But Sparkle has the BEST PvP game ever!
Matchpoint = Meh... Right... = Desubscribe
Coolest video on earth
Plasma you can scout on, Neo Arkanoid is just trash. Not off to a good start.
of course all the Terran-favored maps are ranked higher lmao
there are no terran favored maps and youd know that if you knew anything
@@verybigbrain723 it's maps that Terran has a >50% win rate, which is literally most of the maps. Stats dont lie.
@@spinvn That's only because the most skilled players in history have been Terrans. Oov, Boxer, Last, Flash, and now Royal. If you look at any level lower than Pros, it is quite obvious that none of the maps are Terran favored.
Terran has 60% win rate vs Protoss and 48% win rate vs Zerg on Sparkle according to sponbbang - the Korean BW stats recording website. Stop making up facts Arty.
He was talking about ASL, where it 20% TvZ, which is abysmal.
@@Dziaji On sparkle even Artosis could win vs Flash with Zerg even though he cant even micro Mutas...
smh Artosis and his FS salt... It's not worse than ringing bloom LOL get out