Man, your fractal approach to large dungeon design is the most elegantly I've ever seen that idea conveyed. Really makes the task feel simple and manageable on a gut level
@@RedQuills The work really shows; the first time I heard you say it, I felt a palpable "click" as it slotted into the space experience had made for it in my brain. I spend as much time trying to shave my writing down into something concise and intuitive as getting it on the page in the first place in my own design work, so I've got some familiarity with the difficulty of communicating something true and meaningful in a single sentence like that.
Just a friendly minor quibble & fyi, fractal means it looks the same at every scale. I would use something liked "fractally interesting" to capture the idea that it's "interesting at every scale" so that people don't mistakenly emphasize form at the expense of engagement. fwiw, ymmv, & all that.
I have never seen such a good guide to dungeon design with meaningful examples. The concept of "Ambient room" is so obvious that I'm surprised it never crossed my mind. Great job. Have you heard about Cyclic Dungeon Generation? It's mostly used for the procedural generation of dungeons, but this method could be of great use when designing separate locations in main areas to streamline backtracking and it naturally keeps the flow of the dungeon on the main path.
Genuinely good dnd content like this is so scarce. No click bait, no BS, had my gears turning from the get go, you are a master RUclipsr and artist. You deserve to be so popular. Definitely subscribing to this channel
When I was a teenager in the 80's my friend & I collaborated on a dungeon drawn on 30 sheets of A4 graph paper & then taped together. It was never played, but it was the creation that was the fun.
I really enjoyed your take on dungeon design. It's like taking a 5 room dungeon concept and expanding it section by section. I have always applied logic to building design especially when it comes to traps and monsters. By doing this you keep the immersion for the players in play. Great job.
Thanks, James - it's just another way to determine content logically as an aid. By the way, I've just released another megadungeons video, if you're interested
Very fun to watch you draw and describe the ideas of the place :) ---- I would love to hear other people's thoughts on your dungeon too! Like another youtube channel give their feedback on your map, or interviews with the players how they felt exploring the dungeon!
This method of designing dungeons feels really intuitive! Thank you for all the hard work you put into this video, I'm definitely saving it to refer back to later
This is a fantastic guide, I really love the fractal approach you mentioned and giving the megadungeon different sections. I'm working on my first ever megadungeon and I'll defintely be referencing this as I go to make sure I stay on track. I do wish you'd touched a little more on the physical layout of the dungeon though, how to actually place rooms, link them together and perhaps most confusingly of all for someone that's new to maps of this scale: include verticality. I can see a side-on view of your dugeon which shows there is some verticality at play there but I'm not sure how you remember which specific rooms allow for ascending/descending and how what sort of distances and methods of traversal are needed.
You're right, that's an excellent point. I do try to cover as much as I can in a given video, but sometimes it's not long enough! I'm doing a follow-up video in the near future, and I'll be sure to talk about room layout and floor links.
@@RedQuills That would be amazing! I'm planning way in advance for my megadungeon so hopefully the video drops before I need it in my game : ) I'm making sure to subscribe so I don't miss it!
You've done it again! I always want to go make more maps when you post! Have you ever considered what it would take to stream your games? It seems like it would have a rather different feel to most of the other popular streamed games, but it also seems that your players probably do a lot of processing between sessions, so maybe not? Also, have you ever considered running a game virtually for subscribers and/or supporters? It just seems like your game is very unique, story-centric, and involved: the kind of game many of us fantasize about playing in!
I always look forward to your comments! We discussed streaming my current games, but not everyone is an actor, or comfortable on camera. So as awesome as that would be, it's not an option at this point... I did have a StartPlaying profile for a while, and I would consider it again, when we have enough of a following that there would be interest. Something to keep in mind for the future!
@RedQuills I definitely understand that not everyone wants to be on camera for the world to see. Of course, opening a game to the public might be tricky if your following is international and most people have somewhat restrictive schedules, too. If you ever do open up a game, I'd definitely be checking my schedule!
Very helpfull video! I was wondering if you had another video allready made where you go more in depth into the basics of the five room dungeon, or could refer to some other source. It seems like terms like ambient, puzzle, dead end, conflict and environmental are part of a general idea but I am not familiar with it.
I really enjoyed this video as a piece of art _per se._ My only critical remark is that you can turn up the vilume a little bit; this was much quieter than the usual RUclips video. (This morning I've watched Binkov, Joe Scott, & 8 Out of 10 Cats, which were all normal, so it's not my speakers. That wasn't snark or sarcasm, just showing calibration.) *Still a wonderful video!* Thanks for uploading!
This is a great video -- not just the cartography, which is outstanding, but also your explanation of the method for building the dungeon from its concept outward. Do you typically start with the sketch, or build the areas/locations in your head first? And, apologies if you've already covered it in another video, but what are your thoughts on the Atlas/Travelogue portion of many settings books, which build out the geography and points of interest across an entire region or world? Great stuff, again. I can't wait to view more of your videos.
Firstly, thank you. It's so great to have positive feedback, and it's a wonderful community to be a part of. I generally start by coming up with major landmarks or chambers first and then sketch around that, and then I come up with what the functions are around that. I do have a couple of other videos that talk about this, but it's always worth talking about. I love reading about other geographies - my general complaint is that they're always too short! I want more, more to explore and know and wonder about
Do you just hand over such a beautiful revealing map to your players? If so, who in the world created such a nice map? These are always problems I have struggled with when creating nice maps. I am new here. Great video!
Hi Nate! Welcome! I generally give my players maps after or mostly through the exploration, but in the Lore Archive series here, I do go into how you can use maps like this as a quest in and of themselves. In this world, this map -and the others that led to it - were made by the explorer Yemoke Dramasae, who you follow the trail of as he continues. His mapmaking reveals more lore and leads to the next map as you follow. In this case, you can find this map in the emperor's box in the arena, which is far enough that your adventurers can have wandered through the whole thing by themselves, or only a fraction, but will still provide useful insight without spoiling too much.
Cool video, it's nice watching and listening to your process. If you'll indulge me, I'd like to share a bit about the megadungeon I'm working on at the moment (and also running as I procrastinated too long and the players are exploring it as I'm still making it) The dungeon is full of life and unlife, with countless spirits howling through the tunnels connecting the entrance cavern and the three other major areas, including the barrow of an ancient barbarian king and all his loyal guards buried with him. The other two major areas utilise the metal lining the area that forms natural portals, one is a college that used it to study and loot the other planes before being punished and turned into oozes, and the other is a yugoloth trading house that hosts trade deals for creatures from across the planes. It's a big task but coming up with the inciting incident, the linking stories and history, the encounters, and the ties to the player backstories has been a lot of fun. It looks like you're having the same fun making your dungeon, which is nice feeling to have. Looking forward to the next video!
It depends on the players! Fog of war works, if they're good at parallel thinking you can have them draw their own as they explore, you can have a simple overview map to give to them, etc. Ask them beforehand, what kind of challenge they want!
I like the video, and there is some excellent advice, but I would strongly argue this isn't a megadungeon, it's just a big dungeon. I didn't hear you mention the most important parts of what a megadungeon is. A megadungeon requires a few things. 1. They are a campaign in their own right, that doesn't mean 1-max, but it does mean at least will carry you through a level range on their own such as 1-5. Often this will be shown as literal levels of the dungeon, each corresponding to a player level, but can take place as the distance traveled is the level like in The Forbidden Caverns of Archaia. 2. They require multiple entrances and exits, many of which require the player to unlock them somehow. These entrances and exits should take players to and between higher and lower level areas of the dungeon. There is so much depth in turning on an elevator and it brings you up to the well in the middle of town, basically Jaquays your dungeon. 3. You mentioned friendly creatures but there should also be multiple and if not many factions all with different goals and alliances with each other ripe for player interference. One of the biggest elements of megadungeons is the emergent storytelling they enable, quite often they are less a story in and of themself and more a collection of systems that interact in often surprising ways and factions are one of the best ways to achieve that. My biggest advice for making megadungeons is "don't think in encounters, think in systems". There is a castle with a moat of brackish and muddy water. The water is filled with slimes. They're fed by the residents on the lower levels who's waste goes into the water, they're useful because it makes wading the water far harder. Eliminate too many residents and the slimes will start overbreeding as they dump the deceased. As the residents can't keep up with the increased food demand the slimes will start heading up the plumbing giving you "allies" in fighting the residents. Or kill all the slimes or find a way to starve them out and the plumbing is suddenly far easier to access giving you new ways into the castle. etc etc. Megadungeons are all about these ecosystem interactions.
I am so excited to build my mega dungeon - it is going to be an abandoned (but taken over by the elements/animals) wizarding university that was raided by a rival. Most of the wizards turned themselves into apes to survive the raid.
@@RedQuills lol I have it codenamed Unseen University until I can think of a suitable name and will coin it that if one doesn’t come to me in time. I love Pratchett.
You'll need a way to 'predict' future parts of the dungeon. Options for rolling a clue or puzzle piece or some other pointer to something the players haven't come across yet which gets locked into place and influences that portion of the function before you have to roll up more specifics for it.
@@Cybermaul I like jpw What Lies Beneath handles puzzles. It's basically playing yatzee where you get to manipulate the dice to get a run. I think adapting this wouldn’t be hard.
Fair point, megadungeons are generally large enough to be the setting for an entire campaign. The several-level concept isn't a requirement, but is generally a staple. In this video, because neither number of chambers nor levels is a prerequisite of a Megadungeon, I focused on other areas.
Cool stuff. But one thing that always bugged me with D&D dungeons: They are so "linear". They are like amusement park rides rather than real places. Like, if you just Google "palace/castle floorplans", the #1 thing you notice is that EVERYTHING loops. Almost every single room has 2 exists (for safety) and every room of rooms circles. Everything is interconnected and very dense. But this is BORING. But it's realistic so... What do we do? Well, I tend to cope with this by making this kind of linear/sparse dungeon and then just saying or insinuating that everything else you can't see or access has collapsed. So yes, all the room loop, but the passages have collapsed. This means I will use a "false map" that I then update as the player progress, almost working as a "fog of war" as they see what the map looks currently. It's funny, because people always start to make all kinds of plans and for them having to adapt and problem solve once they arrive to a room that seems to lead directly to the next section and find all the passages collapsed. It's much more immersive.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Man, your fractal approach to large dungeon design is the most elegantly I've ever seen that idea conveyed. Really makes the task feel simple and manageable on a gut level
Thank you! I've been working on a similar concept for a while, and spent longer than I'd care to admit trying to find a way to put it into words!
@@RedQuills The work really shows; the first time I heard you say it, I felt a palpable "click" as it slotted into the space experience had made for it in my brain.
I spend as much time trying to shave my writing down into something concise and intuitive as getting it on the page in the first place in my own design work, so I've got some familiarity with the difficulty of communicating something true and meaningful in a single sentence like that.
Just a friendly minor quibble & fyi, fractal means it looks the same at every scale. I would use something liked "fractally interesting" to capture the idea that it's "interesting at every scale" so that people don't mistakenly emphasize form at the expense of engagement. fwiw, ymmv, & all that.
I have never seen such a good guide to dungeon design with meaningful examples.
The concept of "Ambient room" is so obvious that I'm surprised it never crossed my mind.
Great job.
Have you heard about Cyclic Dungeon Generation? It's mostly used for the procedural generation of dungeons, but this method could be of great use when designing separate locations in main areas to streamline backtracking and it naturally keeps the flow of the dungeon on the main path.
Thank you! I have not heard of Cyclic Dungeon Generation, and now I have more reading material!
Genuinely good dnd content like this is so scarce. No click bait, no BS, had my gears turning from the get go, you are a master RUclipsr and artist. You deserve to be so popular. Definitely subscribing to this channel
Thank you, Blake! It means a lot
As someone who loves making maps for my dnd campaigns, this vid is a good reminder on dungeon creation
Commenting because this video is great and the almighty algorithm requires it :D
Legend!
Same
why aren't you more popular, what kind of weird wizardry is stopping this channel from being more popular?
I was cursed by a sea hag for my hubris, and also we only started a few months ago. But we're getting there!
When I was a teenager in the 80's my friend & I collaborated on a dungeon drawn on 30 sheets of A4 graph paper & then taped together. It was never played, but it was the creation that was the fun.
That's what I find! I love the making of the maps, and it's a bonus if they get played
I love this approach to the dungeons. A simple method which allows for a lot of flexibility for any GM.
Keep up the hard work! Love the videos
Thank you, will do!
That map is gorgeous. 💜
Thank you! I try
I really enjoyed your take on dungeon design. It's like taking a 5 room dungeon concept and expanding it section by section. I have always applied logic to building design especially when it comes to traps and monsters. By doing this you keep the immersion for the players in play. Great job.
Thanks, James - it's just another way to determine content logically as an aid. By the way, I've just released another megadungeons video, if you're interested
Your map looks gorgeous!! I love the examples of challenges and locations. So helpful.
Always great to hear that it's helped!
where were you ten years ago when I was struggling with dungeon creation generators lol i auto subbed when I saw this suggested
Alas, I was also struggling with dungeon creation generators. But the pain made me strong
Very fun to watch you draw and describe the ideas of the place :) ---- I would love to hear other people's thoughts on your dungeon too! Like another youtube channel give their feedback on your map, or interviews with the players how they felt exploring the dungeon!
I would love that - as I get bigger, I'll reach out to other D&D or RPG RUclips channels, and see if we can do collaborations. That's a great idea
Excellent! Well worth the viewing. Liked and subscribed. Thank you for this.
Thank YOU! I hope it's useful
Excellent content (ideas, art, and narration). Thank you!
Thank YOU! Glad you enjoyed!
Ive finally found the perfect moodpiece to perfect my mapmaking. Thank you
Glad I could help!
Well done. Very easy to watch.
You flatterer
Smooth voice, smooth tips. Commenting for algorithm & engagement.
Interesting. This reminds me very much of the Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg.
I love Lost Dungeons!
Marvellous. Love your work
Thank you so much 😀
Me getting this on my feed proves the algorithm isn’t completely useless
Damn, you only have 1k subs??? The quality of this video is amazing!
The quality of my subs is amazing!
This method of designing dungeons feels really intuitive! Thank you for all the hard work you put into this video, I'm definitely saving it to refer back to later
Glad it was helpful!
Fascinating methods and approaches. I’ll be coming back to this
Please do! I have other videos on specific topics, too
Wow, just when I think I'm done I find another amazing youtube channel. 10/10 quality.
This is a fantastic guide, I really love the fractal approach you mentioned and giving the megadungeon different sections. I'm working on my first ever megadungeon and I'll defintely be referencing this as I go to make sure I stay on track.
I do wish you'd touched a little more on the physical layout of the dungeon though, how to actually place rooms, link them together and perhaps most confusingly of all for someone that's new to maps of this scale: include verticality. I can see a side-on view of your dugeon which shows there is some verticality at play there but I'm not sure how you remember which specific rooms allow for ascending/descending and how what sort of distances and methods of traversal are needed.
You're right, that's an excellent point. I do try to cover as much as I can in a given video, but sometimes it's not long enough!
I'm doing a follow-up video in the near future, and I'll be sure to talk about room layout and floor links.
@@RedQuills That would be amazing! I'm planning way in advance for my megadungeon so hopefully the video drops before I need it in my game : ) I'm making sure to subscribe so I don't miss it!
love your content its zen full of great advices and ideas and beautiful drawings.
Thank you so much 😀
You've done it again! I always want to go make more maps when you post!
Have you ever considered what it would take to stream your games? It seems like it would have a rather different feel to most of the other popular streamed games, but it also seems that your players probably do a lot of processing between sessions, so maybe not?
Also, have you ever considered running a game virtually for subscribers and/or supporters? It just seems like your game is very unique, story-centric, and involved: the kind of game many of us fantasize about playing in!
I always look forward to your comments!
We discussed streaming my current games, but not everyone is an actor, or comfortable on camera. So as awesome as that would be, it's not an option at this point...
I did have a StartPlaying profile for a while, and I would consider it again, when we have enough of a following that there would be interest.
Something to keep in mind for the future!
@RedQuills I definitely understand that not everyone wants to be on camera for the world to see. Of course, opening a game to the public might be tricky if your following is international and most people have somewhat restrictive schedules, too. If you ever do open up a game, I'd definitely be checking my schedule!
Always love creating locations full of opportunities to explore heroics.
Very helpfull video! I was wondering if you had another video allready made where you go more in depth into the basics of the five room dungeon, or could refer to some other source. It seems like terms like ambient, puzzle, dead end, conflict and environmental are part of a general idea but I am not familiar with it.
Thank you! I got into it in more detail in two of my other videos - How to Make Stunning Handout Maps and How to Map an Ancient Ruin.
Excellent video, thank you for your insight.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent content!
You flatterer - thank you!
Amazing!
Gorgeous work! ❤
Thank you! 😊
great video!
Thank you! And I love your stuff: what would you say to a collaboration in the future?
Nicely Done. 👍
I really enjoyed this video as a piece of art _per se._ My only critical remark is that you can turn up the vilume a little bit; this was much quieter than the usual RUclips video.
(This morning I've watched Binkov, Joe Scott, & 8 Out of 10 Cats, which were all normal, so it's not my speakers. That wasn't snark or sarcasm, just showing calibration.) *Still a wonderful video!* Thanks for uploading!
Good critique, I'll implement it! Thank you
Inspiring
This is a great video -- not just the cartography, which is outstanding, but also your explanation of the method for building the dungeon from its concept outward. Do you typically start with the sketch, or build the areas/locations in your head first? And, apologies if you've already covered it in another video, but what are your thoughts on the Atlas/Travelogue portion of many settings books, which build out the geography and points of interest across an entire region or world?
Great stuff, again. I can't wait to view more of your videos.
Firstly, thank you. It's so great to have positive feedback, and it's a wonderful community to be a part of. I generally start by coming up with major landmarks or chambers first and then sketch around that, and then I come up with what the functions are around that.
I do have a couple of other videos that talk about this, but it's always worth talking about.
I love reading about other geographies - my general complaint is that they're always too short! I want more, more to explore and know and wonder about
thank you for the video, this has been realy useful in some personal proyects
Glad it was helpful!
This is awesome
Thank you! 🙏
Do you just hand over such a beautiful revealing map to your players? If so, who in the world created such a nice map? These are always problems I have struggled with when creating nice maps. I am new here. Great video!
Hi Nate! Welcome! I generally give my players maps after or mostly through the exploration, but in the Lore Archive series here, I do go into how you can use maps like this as a quest in and of themselves.
In this world, this map -and the others that led to it - were made by the explorer Yemoke Dramasae, who you follow the trail of as he continues. His mapmaking reveals more lore and leads to the next map as you follow.
In this case, you can find this map in the emperor's box in the arena, which is far enough that your adventurers can have wandered through the whole thing by themselves, or only a fraction, but will still provide useful insight without spoiling too much.
Cool video, it's nice watching and listening to your process. If you'll indulge me, I'd like to share a bit about the megadungeon I'm working on at the moment (and also running as I procrastinated too long and the players are exploring it as I'm still making it)
The dungeon is full of life and unlife, with countless spirits howling through the tunnels connecting the entrance cavern and the three other major areas, including the barrow of an ancient barbarian king and all his loyal guards buried with him. The other two major areas utilise the metal lining the area that forms natural portals, one is a college that used it to study and loot the other planes before being punished and turned into oozes, and the other is a yugoloth trading house that hosts trade deals for creatures from across the planes.
It's a big task but coming up with the inciting incident, the linking stories and history, the encounters, and the ties to the player backstories has been a lot of fun. It looks like you're having the same fun making your dungeon, which is nice feeling to have. Looking forward to the next video!
Heck yeah, that sounds great, I love it! So often dungeons are empty ruins, but bustling dungeons are also so fun!
Whats the best way to run a mega dungeon from the players perspective? Do you make a player version of the map? How do you accomplish fog of war?
It depends on the players! Fog of war works, if they're good at parallel thinking you can have them draw their own as they explore, you can have a simple overview map to give to them, etc. Ask them beforehand, what kind of challenge they want!
I like the video, and there is some excellent advice, but I would strongly argue this isn't a megadungeon, it's just a big dungeon.
I didn't hear you mention the most important parts of what a megadungeon is. A megadungeon requires a few things.
1. They are a campaign in their own right, that doesn't mean 1-max, but it does mean at least will carry you through a level range on their own such as 1-5. Often this will be shown as literal levels of the dungeon, each corresponding to a player level, but can take place as the distance traveled is the level like in The Forbidden Caverns of Archaia.
2. They require multiple entrances and exits, many of which require the player to unlock them somehow. These entrances and exits should take players to and between higher and lower level areas of the dungeon. There is so much depth in turning on an elevator and it brings you up to the well in the middle of town, basically Jaquays your dungeon.
3. You mentioned friendly creatures but there should also be multiple and if not many factions all with different goals and alliances with each other ripe for player interference. One of the biggest elements of megadungeons is the emergent storytelling they enable, quite often they are less a story in and of themself and more a collection of systems that interact in often surprising ways and factions are one of the best ways to achieve that.
My biggest advice for making megadungeons is "don't think in encounters, think in systems". There is a castle with a moat of brackish and muddy water. The water is filled with slimes. They're fed by the residents on the lower levels who's waste goes into the water, they're useful because it makes wading the water far harder. Eliminate too many residents and the slimes will start overbreeding as they dump the deceased. As the residents can't keep up with the increased food demand the slimes will start heading up the plumbing giving you "allies" in fighting the residents. Or kill all the slimes or find a way to starve them out and the plumbing is suddenly far easier to access giving you new ways into the castle. etc etc. Megadungeons are all about these ecosystem interactions.
Great work. Thanks for sharing your process.
My pleasure! Thank you for watching!
I am so excited to build my mega dungeon - it is going to be an abandoned (but taken over by the elements/animals) wizarding university that was raided by a rival. Most of the wizards turned themselves into apes to survive the raid.
Ohoho, very cool. Bit of an Unseen University vibe?
@@RedQuills lol I have it codenamed Unseen University until I can think of a suitable name and will coin it that if one doesn’t come to me in time. I love Pratchett.
hell yeah, this is brilliant
Oh, stop it, you flirt
Great video - thanks for this. Sub'd!
Welcome to the Red Quills!
This is 👌
Thanks 🙏
Now, to figure out how to do this procedurally kinda how Four Against Darkness. 🤔
Ooh, that's a tough one. I'll have a think and make another vid
You'll need a way to 'predict' future parts of the dungeon. Options for rolling a clue or puzzle piece or some other pointer to something the players haven't come across yet which gets locked into place and influences that portion of the function before you have to roll up more specifics for it.
@@Cybermaul I like jpw What Lies Beneath handles puzzles. It's basically playing yatzee where you get to manipulate the dice to get a run. I think adapting this wouldn’t be hard.
Im trying to make a dungeon that is a large modern underground city, with multiple "subdungeons" within it.
Ooh, I love that!
Ambiance
Trap
Encounter
Puzzle
Conflict
Isn’t a mega dungeon supposed to be multiple floors and cover thousands of rooms?
Fair point, megadungeons are generally large enough to be the setting for an entire campaign. The several-level concept isn't a requirement, but is generally a staple. In this video, because neither number of chambers nor levels is a prerequisite of a Megadungeon, I focused on other areas.
This is just the first level, he just didn't tell you...
Curious is the map-maker's art
Comment so this video gets more visibility
That's categorically the wrong kind of paper to draw a dungeon on.
(it's a joke about drawing dungeons on graph paper, not an actual complaint)
Don't worry, I get it! Sometimes, I think I make it unnecessarily difficult on myself when drawing dungeons.
Cool stuff. But one thing that always bugged me with D&D dungeons: They are so "linear". They are like amusement park rides rather than real places. Like, if you just Google "palace/castle floorplans", the #1 thing you notice is that EVERYTHING loops. Almost every single room has 2 exists (for safety) and every room of rooms circles. Everything is interconnected and very dense.
But this is BORING. But it's realistic so... What do we do? Well, I tend to cope with this by making this kind of linear/sparse dungeon and then just saying or insinuating that everything else you can't see or access has collapsed. So yes, all the room loop, but the passages have collapsed. This means I will use a "false map" that I then update as the player progress, almost working as a "fog of war" as they see what the map looks currently. It's funny, because people always start to make all kinds of plans and for them having to adapt and problem solve once they arrive to a room that seems to lead directly to the next section and find all the passages collapsed. It's much more immersive.
I want to listen but this video is INSANELY quiet, there is just no volume.