The online fandom perhaps though that varies from circle to circle. However literally every Star Wars fan I've ever met in person is sweet and civil and don't have an emotional outburst over disagreements. Most of them also love all six Star Wars films with the hate wagon it got online being completely absent.
There’s always been toxic Star Wars Fans. Disney had nothing to do with it. In fact a lot of people believed the myths that Jake Lloyd quit acting because of the Phantom Menace until that was debunked recently thanks to his mother. This is just you rewriting history to fit your grudge against Disney.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios There was not this level of toxicity prior to The Last Jedi. After The Last Jedi, there was an explosion of new anti SJW and also anti anti SJW channels popping up and fans attacking each other reached a new height. There has always been toxic Star Wars fans and there has always been this level of toxicity are two different things. The later very noticeable came after The Last Jedi.
Regarding racism against _John Boyega:_ I saw *THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK* in a cinema in 1980. {I was 19 then.} I realize the internet did not exist back then, but I do not recall ANY RACISM over _Billy Dee Williams_ and his _Lando Calrissian_ character.
I guarantee you there was, only more muted due to absence of Twitter. Considering some people would have seen him as the man to betray Han, I'm sure there were kids back then with a grudge against him
"when it comes to fans, it is a fan's right to have whatever opinion they want to have, and people are going to be upset... I don't necessarily consider that toxic. I just consider that passion." -Henry Cavill
In the old days, if a movie was bad it failed at the box office and the studio took the hit. They learned a lesson and moved on. It seems with Disney, they think they can write SW however they like, and if people don't like it and actually voice an opinion, they are toxic, but continue to write it in much the same way. If the fans stop watching it at theatres and/or on streaming, they are then the worst most toxic fan base ever. Disney doesn't listen and doesn't learn, they just insult the fanbase for not liking whatever Disney churns out. They think they can write any old nonsense, add in the familiar characters, tech etc, and SW fans would just buy into it because familiar names and light sabres etc is all it takes. Rogue One was a fairly good SW movie and if Disney looked at that they might learn something. Even GL liked it according to the director because GL called him and said so. GL hasn't done that for the sequels. Seems crazy to me that a studio blames the paying public for producing what a lot of SW fans consider to be bad movies etc and continue to adhere to the same ideology of what they think SW should be, and seemed shocked when it continually doesn't do well. They really have no idea what SW is it seems. The trouble with SW, is that George Lucas did such an incredible job with the first two, that it makes it very difficult to keep making them as good as those. RotJ was perhaps a sign that George himself could no longer provide the 'magic' of the first two, and the prequels seemed to confirm that for many people. Disney then came along, threw out Georges treatments for a sequel trilogy and the rest is history (and I'm not convinced they would have been much better, but at least GL knows SW)..
You're right about Lucas doing the sequel trilogy. Just like the prequels, a lot of fans wouldn't have liked them. But a lot would have loved them and thought it was true Star Wars.
Whenever someone talks about Disney’s Star Wars, they’re always gonna talk about the movies, and the live action shows & games and not always some of the animation stuff and crossover elements they’ve been doing since they bought Lucasfilm. Like did Disney ruin Star Wars when they did the Phineas & Ferb Crossover with the series? Was Star Wars’ inclusion in Disney Infinity awful. What about the countless LEGO Star Wars shorts & specials on Disney XD and Now Disney+? Do they ruin Star Wars because they have Self Aware? What about Star Wars Visions and the Bad Batch? Are those shows awful because of what they’re doing in terms of story and animation?
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios I never said Disney 'ruined' SW, that's your term, not mine. The thing is, series like The Bad Batch may be good (it's one of the few I enjoy watching), but it's not good because it's SW, it's good because of the story line and characters. To me, even TBB isn't SW, it's just a sci fi story that I happen to enjoy and coincidentally has some SW links. You can take away those links and it would still be the same. It's not SW. There's a difference between the two that most people don't seem to understand.
@@garyl5128 I was talking to ForceMaximus84, but yeah, that’s a good explanation. Personally, I don’t think Disney Ruins Star Wars. I’m not saying this because I’m a Disney Fan or a Disney Adult, or whatever. It’s just that it’s, you know… a big corporation. I don’t really think saying that a corporation would ruin a global juggernaut of a franchise like Star Wars (Especially when Star Wars always a global juggernaut long before Disney bought Lucasfilm) as it feels unrealistic. I think it’s realistic to assume that some of the people who worked on a Star Wars project, are the ones to blame for bad things about it, but I don’t really want anyone to send death threats to the people who worked on them.
@@AmericaChavez17 oh please those would have been the tiniest of fraction of people , motherfuckers always wanna use that as some sort of excuse , it happens to anybody well known on the internet and therefore is meaningless , especially in this context
Okay, Jesterbell, I have a question: Is the fanbase toxic because of the way the handlers of the franchise are behaving towards them? Rian Johnson was saying stuff on Twitter that I could never see James Cameron or Christopher Nolan ever doing.
Also NOTE: The Force Awakens broke 2 billion but every successive sequel made less money. The ONLY major trilogy that has this. LOTR,Harry Potter,Avengers,etc, almost always make way more.
I’m by no means saying the Star Wars Fan Base is pure and void of sin My only problem is Disney trying to use “racism” and “sexism” as a shield for criticism and an excuse for lack of effort
As implied by the Critical Drinker on the topic of Reva, I wouldn't be surprised if Disney were making sock accounts to fake online abuse to their actors to make the fan base look bad. Not saying that I think it's true, just that I wouldn't be surprised...
If you’re acting like the actors who played Finn, Rey, the woman from the acolyte (didn’t watch so don’t know her characters name), especially Rose and even more especially Jar jar weren’t lambasted with sexist/racist attacks even before the movie came out despite testimony FROM THOSE ACTORS about it, then you’re living in a fantasy world. Hell even Billy Dee Williams went through it back in the eighties. Star Wars fans have a history with this sort of thing.
@@saikikusuo7937 They already admitted that Star Wars fans are not void of sin. Any large groups is going to have some bad apples, but the few don't represent the many.
Exactly My point is that racism isn’t the LEADING source of the backlash. Disney DOES try to hype any incidents of such up because they know that they have no real direction on their part with the franchise
This honestly reminds me of Sonic. That Franchise was gutted when a public company caring only of gambling machines (Sammy) took over SEGA, Sonic only valuable as, as they literally put it, a PR scapegoat. AFAIK, prior to Frontiers, they're honestly not even hating anymore, they're just sad about it (that said Frontiers and the movie been sparkling some hope for a resurgence lately).
That's no excuse to send death threats to actors or even to entities like the star wars wiki admins for acknowledging content that's seen as a pariah. You can express dislike of content without having to link it to "WOKE SJW BAD" rhetoric or dissing fans who do like that said content.
I haven't been on star wars pages since 2017 .... you know? When everyone bullied Kelly Marie Tran for being the wrong sister to survive in the Last Jedi? The body shaming, the vulgarity of language, the threats simply cause you don't like a movie???? You know justifying such crap is concerning. And when I say that I don't just mean that incident who knows what else thankfully I missed out on for abandoning that community something that many don't have the luxury to do if they work for Disney. I'm not saying Star Wars I'd at its peak by freaking far it is not but this fanbase is absolutely atrocious and shameful and anyone defending such behavior is a disgrace.
10:06 That was my issue They caved into prequel hate openly and JJ even admitted he wanted to burn them They went out of their way to dismiss the prequels until they saw it was costing them money and then they just looked like cash grabbing shills That was a bad idea, then they caved into racists who didn't want to see Finn becoming the leader (No this was not cause of China stop using that lie peddled by Disney) That was ALL on them, not the fans And the Acolyte was them finally crapping on the prequels by what they did No one EVER said the Jedi were evil , they were lost, arrogant but overall good natured So Disney took a few idiots online who felt the Jedi were bad and just ran with it They actually tried to make sith look like the good guys
@@jstmartonthat was a media hoax they blamed fans for her leaving aocial media when she refuted that claim. People went after her character kelly was fine I remember all thw debunos of thst fans having to defend themsepves constantly.
@@CharlesH-t9rPrequel hate was pointless me personally I went in it for the story but even I understand the bad guys won in the end of the trilogy. It didn’t help the people behind the acolyte from all the interviews don’t understand how the Jedi and Sith works because while individual Jedi can be flawed make mistakes they are still people however the organization of the Jedi is inherently good. While the Sith organization are batshit evil whatever redeeming qualities may have had at one point is lost to the amount evil deeds they had done.
Being toxic goes both ways. Criticizing a movie cause it doesn’t happened exactly based on the lore from a Star Wars hook written 20 years ago that is toxic.
Anyone who says this was not a witness to the Avatar: The Last Airbender ship wars. And I was only on the sidelines! Methinks media and creators need to grow a thicker skin.
Do shippers really count, though? That's a smaller subset of the base at large. In my experience, Avatar fans are some of the nicest people I've met. Passionate for sure, but not exactly "toxic". (They're even united in their disappointment of the M Night movie. There just isn't that much division between them)
@@robchuk4136 This was when the series was still ongoing. It was very intense at the time, and since has much mellowed into a very pleasant fandom. The shippers got into everything at the time and conversations tended get sidetracked.
I just think Shippers are obnoxious, not necessarily toxic, just the most annoying part of any fandom. They certainly can get toxic, but that's not the default.
The fact that Disney is also obsessed with calling fans toxic is just bewildering. The franchise has fans for a reason. Disney is finding out that apathy is a bigger problem for them. They've had people complaining for awhile. Now, a lot of those people have given up and stopped watching. That's going to continue. If you liked The Acolyte, good for you, but they're not going to continue to dump money into something few people are watching.
Disney as a company isn't calling fans toxic. Specific actors and showrunners have called out specific people who are being dicks. It's nothing to get hysterical about.
@@MiqelDotCom Those people work for Disney. What they say publicly about this stuff is very much so controlled by them. Disney approves or they would make it stop.
@@MiqelDotCom Are you sure? We have Amandla Stenberg's discourse video. You can make the argument that she's only calling out the racists, but if you read the text, she's heavily implying that everyone who uses "woke" as meaning something negative is to be considered a racist. Then she made an Instagram video commenting Acolyte being cancelled. She stated that she was not surprised at the show getting cancelled and cited a rampage of vitriol as reason. The problem with that is the vitriolic people do not have the power to tank the viewership of a Star Wars show or getting it cancelled. The only way Amandla's video makes sense is if "vitriol" is extended to mean most people who dislike Acolyte.
Im a pro wrestling fan and all I'll say is look at how Chris Benoit is treated compared to Hulk Hogan by the majority of Pro Wrestling fans Not one Star Wars fan even the most toxic of the fandom, would even behave that way
Lol, omg... I had to block practically every wrestling "fan" page on Facebook because I actually enjoy AEW and I'm tired of the 24/7/365 shitstream of people hating AEW just for existing.
@@A_RUclips_Commenter Benoit did fake fighting moves well he was considered a "underdog" who was a "small guy" (he was nearly 240lbs he wasn't small at all he was huge man) and he could "put on great matches" so despite he not only killed his wife , he killed his special needs son then himself that they blame his ex wife's ex husband or CTE As for Hulk Hogan, as far as I know he said some racist things and lied about things inside the pro wrestling business but treated him like he's worse than Benoit because he was "bad " at fake fighting and he made sure he always looked good is a pretty shitty mindest to have
I never had anything against Rose. She was fine. Though, I though Benicio Del Toro’s character was my favorite and I wished we could’ve seen more of him in the third film, but never did.
True we have to acknowledge that downplaying or acting as if it's not relevant isn't logical (she pointed it out) Many won't do that Prequel rage bait grifters over hyped the hate but it was there
Though Jake Loyd and Ahmed Best were bullied before the internet became a thing. So, yeah the fanbase went to the Dark Side even then. And it’s getting worse.
Fanbase: exists for 30 years Star Wars: adds new thing Fanbase: this is kinda annoying Media: JAR JAR IS RACIST Game companies: making amazing Star Wars games Authors: still writing great stories ... Media, decades later: FANBASE BULLIED JAR JAR OFF (social media that wasn't really a thing back then) Disney: buys it and pretends to go back to classics, but also says no more new games or books unless they say so (claiming the sandbox) Fanbase: oh, interesting? I hope... Disney: SUBVERTS EXPECTATIONS Fanbase: what the f--!? Disney: oh, sorry we were only trying to do a little subverting pls dont be mad Fanbase: I'm pretty mad Disney: but look, Mandalorian! Fanbase: oh, cool! Disney: also, here's Luke Skywalker as you always wanted to see him! Fanbase: HELL YEAH! Disney: but we're also going to start firing people for what they say on social media Fanbase: wait...what!? But we liked her. Disney: and now we aren't even trying because you didn't like our politics Fanbase: thanks for making it easy
I second this opinion. I've seen many fandoms, but this is the only one I've seen actually make a continuous, public, regular habit of physically assaulting anyone that disagrees with them. I've never seen a Star Wars fan smash someone's head open with a bike lock. I've never seen a MPL fan overturn a table and throw fluids in a person's face because they don't appreciate them voicing an opinion. I've never seen a Trekkie rip the cables out of someone's microphone equipment because they assumed that person had to be a Klingon for voicing a differing opinion. I've never seen a Sonic fan spend an entire year posting on Twitter that millions of people should be marched into a war zone to die as civilian combatants to achieve "world peace". All these things, I have witnessed from the hands and mouths of those that claim Social Justice and Tolerance as their creedo.
I have a strange feelings that problem (or one of them) lies here in fact, that big media companies treating their investors as "paying customers" and fans as "means of production", thus they express easily frustration with fans disappointment as in their heads, "means of production" shouldn't do that.
@@AmericaChavez17 I didn't write a single word to any of the actors. (I don't even have Twitter). And neither did 99,9% of the fans. There are some crazy weirdos (like Reylo shippers), but they exist in every fanbase.
@@Сайтамен not every fanbase would want actors to die just because they don’t like the character. What makes you think 99.9% of people don’t have X? Just because you don’t doesn’t mean the rest of the world is like you
@@AmericaChavez17 I said most of them don't write anything to the actors. And yes, when you become a celebrity, you should be prepared to face some hate, that's life. With the money they are making tons of people would accept that position.
@@Сайтамен there’s a different between facing hate and just wanting people to die. Star Wars fans are notorious for that. It’s not one or two individuals mind you, it’s the entire fanbase. Do you even know Ahmed Best nearly contemplated suicide because the only crime he has committed was playing Jar Jar Binks. You say that’s life and when celebrities snap back at you, you call them unreasonable, ignorant or woke
It's true that some fans can take it too far. It's also true corporations use and even overstate harassment as a shield to criticism. Star wars being an example of both
The idea of toxic fans is a relatively new thing. There was a time when Hollywood would never say such things about the audience. It was art; you make the art, put it out there, and it rises and falls on its own merits. Hollywood has become so thin skinned that they just lash out at everything. They've sorta gone crazy with narcissism.
I think it's not just narcissism, I think it also speaks of other concerns than to sell. Calling fans toxic is from a business standpoint suicide, you can only drive away fans by doing so. You can make professional critics feel compelled to give a product a good review if there is the threat of being called whatever-ist otherwise, but that threat is completely inefficient on individual customers. If getting customers (viewers) is the goal, there is no reason to call your fans toxic. As such, calling your fans toxic indicates that defending your product is more important than your product being marketable. Now, your suggestion of narcissism fits here, but considering that Disney has made a big deal of bringing in women, black people and LGBT people, I propose that they feel they have to defend that decision and the goal with calling fans toxic is exactly that.
PSA: if YOU feel called out because an actor from one of these movies is condemning the racism/sexism they’ve had to go through from Star Wars “fans,” then that says more about YOU than it does about the actor, or even DISNEY. And I fucking hate Disney.
5:17 the wild thing is, that wasn’t stuff coming from internet threads in 1999. That was stuff coming from the critics at the time. This is largely before the popularity of online discussion threads. The same critics shaming the actual regular shmegular Star Wars fans, are the same ones that drove Amed best to that point
> Me seeing what the MHA and Genshin Impact communities are capable of “Oh, you’re serious? Let me laugh even harder!” Shit. Not even Star Wars fans ever bullied a fanartist into committing suicide like Steven Universe fans.
there is a part of me that says part of the fan base IS toxic ... just look at all the hate and constant death threats someone like SWT gets for calling out the bad story and writing .... he doesn't like a TV SHOW someone else does and they say he should die for that.... that part of the "fan base" IS toxic
I’m sorry, but I’d be really pissed off too. Like Ford telling you the Mach E is a Mustang and you buy it and realize it’s actually nothing like the car you remember from your childhood. They betrayed and murdered my Star Wars. Then they called me racist. Of course I’m going to be upset.
To be completely honest it's more or less the people online who have extreme takes on the franchise. Most Star Wars fans I've met myself included are just civil and good people who simply love the franchise. And honestly if you love a franchise then you should be allowed to hold that franchise to a higher standard. Where Disney gets it wrong is that they believe that they can change something everyone loves and still expect the same outcomes. I mean how much lore has Disney manipulated in order to attempts to make subpar stories work? I mean seriously, no one would have had a problem with Ray if Disney didn't go out of its way to destroy Luke. I personally would have loved the story where Luke trained in a stormtrooper
You have to remember, when the prequels came out, the fans made a documentary called People vs George Lucas. That documentary shows all the fans that didn’t like the prequels and why they didn’t like them. They even wrote a song as to why they didn’t like the state of Star Wars. They didn’t like the changes George made to the original trilogy to make the Special Edition versions like changing that Han shot Greedo first to shooting second and then to shooting at the same time. They hated the extra CG he added to the original trilogy. Now the Special Edition versions are the only ones you can buy at stores and see streaming. The original versions of the original trilogy can’t be found unless you buy a bootleg from a comic con vendor or somewhere online. That is how I got my copy on Blu-ray.
That documentary was an embarrassment. It should be banned. Re-watching it the fans just looking incredibly petty and toxic. The sad part is, you will never see a documentary, the people versus Disney like that because those same people that made that shit shit documentary or practically jerking off to the sequel trilogy while trying to pretend their flawless.
I’m from Boston and the worst fans out there are New York Yankees fans! Or it’s Boston Red Sox fans. But when did people forget about the passion and rage of Sports fans? Isn’t that a fair comparison? Look at European Soccer ⚽️ fans. They’re downright psychotic! But they roar when we win and they give heat to the players, coaches, and owners when they are losers. Historically o recently found out about the chariot races of the Roman Empire and the Blues versus the Greens was violent for hundreds of years. The Star Wars controversy is nothing compared to Sports. Look at parents at kids games! I get there can be toxic fans in Star Wars yeah they’re here but there more oversensitive new fans who use Star Wars as a platform for political messaging and social justice-ing. Those people need the oppressor/oppressed dynamic in order to make their ideology function. It’s evident from Star Wars, Trek, Dr Who, WH40K, video gaming, knitting! Yet where is the correlation to Sports? Are there parallels in behavior? Like Sports fans, fandom give heat when we’re losing. Thanks, Theresa as always I love your takes!
I'll always love the star wars that makes sense. I'm open to disney sw when it's good (fallen order, rogue one, andor). But I'm never gonna get excited for something sw again just because it's sw, cause now I never know how it's gonna turn out
My parents took me to see Return of the Jedi for my 4th birthday. I took myself to see all the prequels, and I thoroughly enjoyed them. TFA was very promising, and even after TLJ let us all down, I still went to the theater to give TROS a chance. In my opinion Star Wars fans have been patient and gracious with all the content since Disney took over, only to constantly be disrespected for wanting fun , quality stories that stay true to the spirit and lore of the originals
You can tell trekkies are smarter than star wars fans, and always have been, because when our franchise went into the toilet we just stopped watching, we didn't create an entire industry devoted to watching and complaining about it. You got dumped, accept it, you'll be happier. Trekkies also don't try to paper over the racist mistakes in our franchise like gen Z are now trying to do with jar jar; truly the worst generation.
The OT. The Thrawn Trilogy (books). Dark Empire (comics). The Clone Wars (both versions). Star Wars Bounty Hunter (PS2) Star Wars: Republic-Commando videogame. Shadows of the Empire (N64 game). The Kyle Katarn games (PC). Star Wars The Force Unleashed (Ps3) . Jedi: Fallen Order videogame. Jedi:Survivor videogame. Vader Immortal (VR). Star Wars Rebels. The Mandalorian S1 and 2. Consider me pleased, Everything else I've seen was a disappointment. We're not hard to please, Star Wars is hard to make if you don't get it. They don't and they blame us.
@@Hello-bi1pm True, I prefer Star Wars when it's visual or involves Luke. I'm also a massive Sci-fi fan with over 100 other franchises I love so I won't be reading about Plagueis or Revan or most of the EU. Just listing what I loved and still do, and acknowledging that Disney has fallen pathetically short of the quality we used to have.
I think toxic franchises generate toxic fandoms. This goes for any medium, games, shows, books. If the Star Wars prequels and sequels were actually good films that pleased the audience, then there wouldn't be complaints on the scale we've seen.
I have all the Star Wars I need from VHS tapes (by now ripped to DVD) from the early 90s. So this modern audience may feel free to provide Disney with all the Star Wars revenue it desires.
MHA, MLP, LoK, Sonic, Frieren fans all exist. Star Wars fans are not even top 20. Not even close. Their complaints are about canon and respecting it. That's valid.
Sonic fans are just mostly moronic(the kind who always look into the gift horse's mouth). While bronies are cringe and actively made the show mutch worse!
Not even close. Remember the Steven Universe fans who nearly caused a kid to off herself? We are not any where close to that. We are critical because we love Star Wars, not toxic.
I loved the prequels, it was a coherent story , and yes it is flawed, but unlike the sequels was a no where near that , they were all over the place , not to mention there are just bad movies!!
I think that it's part of the DNA of the Star Wars fandom to look for the "original" or "true" Star Wars. We're trained to do this because Lucas tried to gaslight us for years, beginning with claiming that the 1977 film called "Star Wars" had always been always "the fourth film", and trying to convince us that the original trilogy was a lie because it didn't have CG dinosaurs, making a prequel trilogy about sand in ass and politics, etc. A Star Wars fan always seeks a true product because this franchise has been lying to fans since 1980. But only Disney can be as shameless as calling our distaste for bad movies "toxic".
Bad should also be in quotations because whether or not you want to admit it, art is subjective. Everything that is said about Star Wars, including the fandoms, is based on opinion. Just as much people like those sequels, they're just not loud or saying anything online. And it's not just hating certain movies, it's also being disrespectful towards those that may like those movies, harassing the actors among other things, pushing their opinions as if it were the only ones that mattered (they really don't) among other things is what makes fandoms toxic, not just disliking a series of movies from one company with whom one disagrees with their direction. If you want to hate the Disney sequels and say they were bad, that's your right, but be civil about it and do it with dignity and be respectful of those that do like them.
Considering the intense hatred they used to have for the Prequel trilogy, despite how awsome they were, and how several actors ended up suffering from depression and mental illness as a result of the bullying they recieved (Jar Jar and Anakin) Star Wars fans aren't exactly doing themselves any favors. I was neve ra Star Wars fan, I liked the original movies and the Prequels, but I was never a fan. Even if people have come around and realized how good the Prequels are, despite some of us realizing this from the start, that hasn't stopped some from still disliking them, and it doesn't seem like people have realized that Jar Jar was a funny character and is still disliked by some. The new Star Wars movies/tv shows, are objectively bad, that is just a fact, but considering past events, yes, Star Wars fans are very toxic.
1:36 My headcanon has always been that it was Disney associates or disney adjacent ppl that went to Lucas and convinced him fans were angre at his vision. Most Star Wars fans pre disney, real fans not cinema critics or mainstream audiences, were super loyal and respectful of his vision, even if they don't always liked everything. That's my conspiracy theory. Disney groomed Lucas so he would sell it. Probably a close friend to him inside Lucasfilm And the only one matching the criteria is... 👀
No, people are allowed to have opinions about the quality of a product. Early product was high quality, later offerings were low quality. Calling people toxic is just an excuse to sell inferior product.
Can someone show me where to turn in my official Star Wars Fan membership card? I'll stop complaining, but in return, can they stop trying to sell me new Star Wars junk?
One of the Biggest contributions on Prequel hate are Red Letter Media and Alexandre O. Philippe. The former was basis for the movie review subgenre at the time and his work from the Prequels and the Chrystal Skull in this extent are still cited on this day. Both gave narrative that Lucas was incompitent at making the Prequels. Like the myth that he was surrounded by the yesmen or overuse of CGI to even too many plotholes. Example the wooden dialogue at the Anakin and Padmé romance subplot in the context of the film ment that socially awkward Anakin who was in a order that didn't like attachment tries to date girl he loves. (Shorthy Anakin is no gigachad rizzler). For the politics part they give enough info and context what is happening in the galaxy whitch kinda fixes few "plotholes" if you pay attention. The 2008 the Clone Wars after re-watching feels like apology tour some ways similar to the Last Crusaide for the unhappy vocal minority. Example it turns Anakin into a different character entirely and poorly maps out the conflict while making it look too black and white. It also makes a plothole in order to fix a made up problem in the film.
Fuck, red letter media! They trashed the prequel yet are practically jerking off to anything Disney SW. They won’t admit that Star Wars is bad or even criticizing and still act like the prequel did more damage . Red letter media did more damage to the brand that anyone! fuck them !
Instead of pandering to existing fans, Disney sought the attention of a new demographic. There aren't enough new fans and old fans carrying over ti make big-budget SW films viable. So what to do? That's right, blame the ticket and toy buyers and keep pressing forward. It's a lack of accountability. It's a lot easier to amplify the words of a handful of toxic people and paint the fans with a broad brush than to admit to your own failures as an entertainer.
Journos shilling for Disney: The Star Wars fanbase is truly the most TOXIC and HORRIBLE fanbase ever!!! Me: so I guess we're just gonna pretend Voltron: Legendary Defender never happened.
Star Wars is this fascinating balancing act of telling an inspiring story about rebellion, myth, self-discovery, spirituality, and adventure, but it's also a giant toy commercial. The more I think about it, I'm surprised it worked once, let alone twice.
I don't think the Star Wars fandom is toxic. I just think that if you provoke someone long enough, like the cast and everyone behind these terrible shows keep doing, then inevitably people are going to get frustrated and retaliate. Bitterness is to be expected when you handle things the way Disney Star Wars handles things.
As for George in the prequels, first of all the OT was indeed HIS vision: this BS narrative of Star Wars being “saved in the edit” is, well, BS I’d say the problem with the prequels is 1) he was overtaxed: he planned to cowrite the script with Carrie Fisher and/or Lawrence Kasdan and directorial duties were to go to friends of his. Among those in line to direct, names like Francis Ford Coppola, Ron Howard and Stephen Spielberg were on the table. No one was up for the challenge and George was left to write, direct, produce and establish the main plot and the foundational lore of the universe 2) it had been almost 20 years since ROTJ and George’s vision changed with the times. He always wanted to pioneer new techniques, ever since the OT of course. Furthermore, his new story was meant to reflect recent real live events. In other words he was at a different point in his life then when he first made the OT
Lucas also wanted to make something new each time without each movie feeling the same. I think that makes them better, but I understand why it's going to turn off some people.
Star Wars fans after the Last Jedi’s insane Mediocrity went from being a Casual Fan base, to being one of the most Unacceptably Toxic Communities out there.
I agree so much with this. You speak the truth, and people who make it so black and white is just disheartening. I have given up really on Disney Star Wars, really only checking in if my fave characters show up (Grievous appears for a minute? Cool, I’ll watch that and then move on I do not care about the rest). The only excitement left in Star Wars now is discovering the EU and seeing the fandom use their passion to bring some life into this universe Disney doesn’t care about. All fandoms have their bad eggs, but it is the fans who have the heart of the series.
5:37 I loved jar jar and i never saw any hatred for him until rage bait grifters like Rlm and Doug Walker And as you said the media didn't do any favors
The prequals were before the social media explosion. Facebook was technically founded before Attack of the Clones, but I think social media took off after the arrival of the iphone. I'm sure reddit was hatred, but it was a different era. Nowadays, the hatred can be wall-to-wall and can follow you 24/7. In the early 2000s, being largely offline was more plausible. So, derision was probably more driven by the media. I'd at least point to the south park parody of Jar Jar with 'Jakovasaurs'. Mockery would require that you watch a show or overhear a comment. It seems a little different to being on twitter and facebook and having a much larger group of people leave flaming bags of poop on your virtual doorstep.
To me the problem begin with The Last Jedi. Ruin Johnson destroyed EVERYTHING stabilized on Force Awakens and made it his personal “Joker 2” movie with it. It’s a billionaire franchise and you can’t let someone uses it as amateur personal project. I get that Rise of Skywalker they had to play safe and nothing bold, but the damage of the Ruin Johnson spread to it and it’s a movie made with no passion and everyone involved looked like they found something just to fill the contract and then carry on with the lives. I think the best solution is they start to make more Legacy stories and shut down the Disney timeline for good. Then they can make a Heir to the Empire movie. Could even be a cartoon movie! That would be great.
Star Wars fans are hyperbolic and freely expressive And given how many people, some will be toxic. But the Supernatural fandom would like to have a word about toxic fandom. But thats just some humans being weird. Most of us are just chilling Side note. Lucas having an overseer might have resulted in a better product. But its just as likely it would have been worse. We dont know, cant know. But i know what the prequels were, profitable. They sold merchandise like the sky was falling. Cant say the same now
George Lucas did not sell Lucasfilm because of "toxic fans." George was sold on the idea of selling Lucasfilm to Disney by Bob Iger. In other words, George needed to be convinced (George would say manipulated, and that does seem to be the case) to sell. He was not looking to sell and had already began writing a sequel trilogy. Debunked.
And Ahmed Best. Damm...... The fans ironically behaved more like the Sith than the Jedi. That’s Dark Side like behavior, nothing Jedi about them at all.
@coletrain583 ...um. You guys ARE aware that the media was also VERY hateful towards Jar Jar Binks back in the day, right? The media were the ones who came out saying that Jar Jar was racist and everyone went along with it.
Speaking as one who, at 5 years old, saw the original Star Wars in its first run, I 100% agree with your assessment of the present state of the franchise. Keep up the great analysis, you nailed it!
All I can say at this point is that mostly withdrawing from the Star Wars fandom (at least from an online standpoint) is one of the best decisions I ever made
The ones claimed to be toxic make videos breaking down their issues bit by bit. The people claiming they are toxic are fools who paint everyone with the same brush and never prove how that is the case. And not long ago, people had issue for claiming Star Wars Theory was toxic, when he wasn't, and they had to back the f*ck down.
Thank you JesterBell for showing Daisy Riddley's comment in context. I know she singled out men there, which isn't something I like. But, I realise she's referring mainly to the sexism that she may have seen directed at her character.
Dude, Finn as the lead in a Star Wars trilogy would have been so cool! Friggin former stormtrooper? Leans so hard into the redemption of the first 6 films, and could have ventured on from that. I'm still planning to rewrite the sequels one day. But, at the same time, I'm worried about my mental health. Diagnosed autism and PTSD are distracting. Honestly, we don't need more kids watching SW these days. My parents would not have shown me Disney SW.
i'm pretty sure the nazis were the worst fanbase ever, or maybe the mayans or conquistadors, or the people that did the spanish inquisition, or perhaps the missionaries who came to north america and messed with the first nations peoples... but i also think DEI is one of the worst fanbases i've seen, since all those other things happened before i was born. the question is are people only fans of movies? or can they be fans of anything, including political and religious beliefs?
Yes they are. criticizing bad writing is one thing hating on an actor, which drives him to retirement, bullying a child, causing him to get depression and mental illness since like, very early, is another, which is unforgivable
Let’s say you hire a chef. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you get King Crab legs, then a Kobe steak, then hardwood baked sockeye salmon. Thursday, Friday, Saturday you get chicken nuggets, then a hamburger, then broiled tilapia. So you hire a different chef and get tofu, then bean sprouts, then quinoa. All the sudden nuggets, burgers and tilapia doesn’t sound so bad.
Tofu, bean sprouts and quinoa are still good, they’re just side dishes mostly and need to go with other ingredients. It would be more to say twigs made to look like crab legs, vomit soup, and a shit sandwich as these things aren’t even meant for consumption, at least by most people’s standards.
The online fandom perhaps though that varies from circle to circle. However literally every Star Wars fan I've ever met in person is sweet and civil and don't have an emotional outburst over disagreements. Most of them also love all six Star Wars films with the hate wagon it got online being completely absent.
i see what u did their XD
The Holiday special is the only real star wars
The evil megacorp somehow managed to convince people that consuming product is a moral necesity
For real.
There’s always been toxic Star Wars Fans. Disney had nothing to do with it. In fact a lot of people believed the myths that Jake Lloyd quit acting because of the Phantom Menace until that was debunked recently thanks to his mother.
This is just you rewriting history to fit your grudge against Disney.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios There was not this level of toxicity prior to The Last Jedi. After The Last Jedi, there was an explosion of new anti SJW and also anti anti SJW channels popping up and fans attacking each other reached a new height. There has always been toxic Star Wars fans and there has always been this level of toxicity are two different things. The later very noticeable came after The Last Jedi.
Regarding racism against _John Boyega:_
I saw *THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK* in a cinema in 1980. {I was 19 then.} I realize the internet did not exist back then, but I do not recall ANY RACISM over _Billy Dee Williams_ and his _Lando Calrissian_ character.
I guarantee you there was, only more muted due to absence of Twitter. Considering some people would have seen him as the man to betray Han, I'm sure there were kids back then with a grudge against him
"when it comes to fans, it is a fan's right to have whatever opinion they want to have, and people are going to be upset... I don't necessarily consider that toxic. I just consider that passion."
-Henry Cavill
Seems to be human nature to ignore all the positive support there is out there and focus on the negative, at least for a lot of people.
Controversy sells, and nothing is more controversial than negativity, even if you need to make it up.
Stop asking questions, just consume product. Then get excited about next product
Accurate statement
I saw a tweet saying that everyone who agrees with this is a nazi. I kid you not. Someone actually tweeted that.
-Jay Bauman
Right?
In the old days, if a movie was bad it failed at the box office and the studio took the hit. They learned a lesson and moved on. It seems with Disney, they think they can write SW however they like, and if people don't like it and actually voice an opinion, they are toxic, but continue to write it in much the same way. If the fans stop watching it at theatres and/or on streaming, they are then the worst most toxic fan base ever. Disney doesn't listen and doesn't learn, they just insult the fanbase for not liking whatever Disney churns out. They think they can write any old nonsense, add in the familiar characters, tech etc, and SW fans would just buy into it because familiar names and light sabres etc is all it takes.
Rogue One was a fairly good SW movie and if Disney looked at that they might learn something. Even GL liked it according to the director because GL called him and said so. GL hasn't done that for the sequels.
Seems crazy to me that a studio blames the paying public for producing what a lot of SW fans consider to be bad movies etc and continue to adhere to the same ideology of what they think SW should be, and seemed shocked when it continually doesn't do well. They really have no idea what SW is it seems.
The trouble with SW, is that George Lucas did such an incredible job with the first two, that it makes it very difficult to keep making them as good as those. RotJ was perhaps a sign that George himself could no longer provide the 'magic' of the first two, and the prequels seemed to confirm that for many people. Disney then came along, threw out Georges treatments for a sequel trilogy and the rest is history (and I'm not convinced they would have been much better, but at least GL knows SW)..
You're right about Lucas doing the sequel trilogy. Just like the prequels, a lot of fans wouldn't have liked them. But a lot would have loved them and thought it was true Star Wars.
I think Lucas’ vision, as flawed as it may be sometimes, is infinitely more interesting than whatever Disney comes up with.
Whenever someone talks about Disney’s Star Wars, they’re always gonna talk about the movies, and the live action shows & games and not always some of the animation stuff and crossover elements they’ve been doing since they bought Lucasfilm.
Like did Disney ruin Star Wars when they did the Phineas & Ferb Crossover with the series? Was Star Wars’ inclusion in Disney Infinity awful. What about the countless LEGO Star Wars shorts & specials on Disney XD and Now Disney+? Do they ruin Star Wars because they have Self Aware? What about Star Wars Visions and the Bad Batch? Are those shows awful because of what they’re doing in terms of story and animation?
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios I never said Disney 'ruined' SW, that's your term, not mine.
The thing is, series like The Bad Batch may be good (it's one of the few I enjoy watching), but it's not good because it's SW, it's good because of the story line and characters. To me, even TBB isn't SW, it's just a sci fi story that I happen to enjoy and coincidentally has some SW links. You can take away those links and it would still be the same. It's not SW. There's a difference between the two that most people don't seem to understand.
@@garyl5128 I was talking to ForceMaximus84, but yeah, that’s a good explanation. Personally, I don’t think Disney Ruins Star Wars. I’m not saying this because I’m a Disney Fan or a Disney Adult, or whatever. It’s just that it’s, you know… a big corporation. I don’t really think saying that a corporation would ruin a global juggernaut of a franchise like Star Wars (Especially when Star Wars always a global juggernaut long before Disney bought Lucasfilm) as it feels unrealistic. I think it’s realistic to assume that some of the people who worked on a Star Wars project, are the ones to blame for bad things about it, but I don’t really want anyone to send death threats to the people who worked on them.
"Star Wars has the most toxic fandom ever."
People who've seen fandoms spawned from Tumbr: You must be new to this whole internet community thing.
As a Star wars fan since I was 5, in real life no. Online…
btw: hope your vacation is going great
Nope disney needs to stop looking in that mirror and admit they're the problem!
If by critiquing the endless crap that Disney throws up is the same as being toxic, then yes, I am toxic.
Then how about sending death threats to actors? Cause I don’t see how bad movies justifies that
@@AmericaChavez17 oh please those would have been the tiniest of fraction of people , motherfuckers always wanna use that as some sort of excuse , it happens to anybody well known on the internet and therefore is meaningless , especially in this context
@@AmericaChavez17 Reminding what they did to jar jars actor and Jake Loyd is like mentioning tiananmen square to china
@@AmericaChavez17Yeah… exactly.
@@AmericaChavez17That’s why Internet Reviewers tells people to not send death threats to actors, because it’s worse then busting a bad movie.
Okay, Jesterbell, I have a question: Is the fanbase toxic because of the way the handlers of the franchise are behaving towards them?
Rian Johnson was saying stuff on Twitter that I could never see James Cameron or Christopher Nolan ever doing.
Also NOTE: The Force Awakens broke 2 billion but every successive sequel made less money. The ONLY major trilogy that has this. LOTR,Harry Potter,Avengers,etc, almost always make way more.
I’m by no means saying the Star Wars Fan Base is pure and void of sin
My only problem is Disney trying to use “racism” and “sexism” as a shield for criticism and an excuse for lack of effort
As implied by the Critical Drinker on the topic of Reva, I wouldn't be surprised if Disney were making sock accounts to fake online abuse to their actors to make the fan base look bad.
Not saying that I think it's true, just that I wouldn't be surprised...
I don’t think anyone is saying all criticism = racism
If you’re acting like the actors who played Finn, Rey, the woman from the acolyte (didn’t watch so don’t know her characters name), especially Rose and even more especially Jar jar weren’t lambasted with sexist/racist attacks even before the movie came out despite testimony FROM THOSE ACTORS about it, then you’re living in a fantasy world. Hell even Billy Dee Williams went through it back in the eighties. Star Wars fans have a history with this sort of thing.
@@saikikusuo7937 They already admitted that Star Wars fans are not void of sin. Any large groups is going to have some bad apples, but the few don't represent the many.
Exactly
My point is that racism isn’t the LEADING source of the backlash. Disney DOES try to hype any incidents of such up because they know that they have no real direction on their part with the franchise
I have said that long ago. Disney+ is trying to get everybody to be a Star Wars fan and it doesn't work that way.
You lose the fans you have.
"No one hates star wars more than star wars fans" -People who think star wars fans should lap up all content regardless of quality and never complain
This honestly reminds me of Sonic. That Franchise was gutted when a public company caring only of gambling machines (Sammy) took over SEGA, Sonic only valuable as, as they literally put it, a PR scapegoat. AFAIK, prior to Frontiers, they're honestly not even hating anymore, they're just sad about it (that said Frontiers and the movie been sparkling some hope for a resurgence lately).
@@onebear6504There’s still some toxicity from Sonic Fans, but it’s not the same as it was back in the Late 2000s and 2010s.
Same could be said about Dragon Ball.
That's no excuse to send death threats to actors or even to entities like the star wars wiki admins for acknowledging content that's seen as a pariah. You can express dislike of content without having to link it to "WOKE SJW BAD" rhetoric or dissing fans who do like that said content.
@@JustSayin2216 Man shut the fuck up. that .05% of star wars fans who do that shit dont speak for me or anyone i am talking about in my comment.
If being toxic means not blindly consuming and accepting everything Disney SW without a single question, then I guess I can live with it.
I haven't been on star wars pages since 2017 .... you know? When everyone bullied Kelly Marie Tran for being the wrong sister to survive in the Last Jedi?
The body shaming, the vulgarity of language, the threats simply cause you don't like a movie???? You know justifying such crap is concerning.
And when I say that I don't just mean that incident who knows what else thankfully I missed out on for abandoning that community something that many don't have the luxury to do if they work for Disney.
I'm not saying Star Wars I'd at its peak by freaking far it is not but this fanbase is absolutely atrocious and shameful and anyone defending such behavior is a disgrace.
10:06 That was my issue
They caved into prequel hate openly and JJ even admitted he wanted to burn them
They went out of their way to dismiss the prequels until they saw it was costing them money and then they just looked like cash grabbing shills
That was a bad idea, then they caved into racists who didn't want to see Finn becoming the leader (No this was not cause of China stop using that lie peddled by Disney)
That was ALL on them, not the fans
And the Acolyte was them finally crapping on the prequels by what they did
No one EVER said the Jedi were evil , they were lost, arrogant but overall good natured
So Disney took a few idiots online who felt the Jedi were bad and just ran with it
They actually tried to make sith look like the good guys
@@jstmartonthat was a media hoax they blamed fans for her leaving aocial media when she refuted that claim. People went after her character kelly was fine I remember all thw debunos of thst fans having to defend themsepves constantly.
@@CharlesH-t9rPrequel hate was pointless me personally I went in it for the story but even I understand the bad guys won in the end of the trilogy. It didn’t help the people behind the acolyte from all the interviews don’t understand how the Jedi and Sith works because while individual Jedi can be flawed make mistakes they are still people however the organization of the Jedi is inherently good. While the Sith organization are batshit evil whatever redeeming qualities may have had at one point is lost to the amount evil deeds they had done.
Being toxic goes both ways. Criticizing a movie cause it doesn’t happened exactly based on the lore from a Star Wars hook written 20 years ago that is toxic.
Anyone who says this was not a witness to the Avatar: The Last Airbender ship wars. And I was only on the sidelines! Methinks media and creators need to grow a thicker skin.
Do shippers really count, though? That's a smaller subset of the base at large. In my experience, Avatar fans are some of the nicest people I've met. Passionate for sure, but not exactly "toxic".
(They're even united in their disappointment of the M Night movie. There just isn't that much division between them)
@@robchuk4136 This was when the series was still ongoing. It was very intense at the time, and since has much mellowed into a very pleasant fandom. The shippers got into everything at the time and conversations tended get sidetracked.
I just think Shippers are obnoxious, not necessarily toxic, just the most annoying part of any fandom. They certainly can get toxic, but that's not the default.
Wow you could be considered a pop culture veteran.
@@Prototype-357 The word you are thinking of is 'old', hah.
The fact that Disney is also obsessed with calling fans toxic is just bewildering. The franchise has fans for a reason. Disney is finding out that apathy is a bigger problem for them. They've had people complaining for awhile. Now, a lot of those people have given up and stopped watching. That's going to continue. If you liked The Acolyte, good for you, but they're not going to continue to dump money into something few people are watching.
They are turning SW into what they want it to be instaed of thinking about why its so popular in a first place.
Disney as a company isn't calling fans toxic. Specific actors and showrunners have called out specific people who are being dicks. It's nothing to get hysterical about.
@@MiqelDotCom Those people work for Disney. What they say publicly about this stuff is very much so controlled by them. Disney approves or they would make it stop.
@@MiqelDotCom Are you sure? We have Amandla Stenberg's discourse video. You can make the argument that she's only calling out the racists, but if you read the text, she's heavily implying that everyone who uses "woke" as meaning something negative is to be considered a racist. Then she made an Instagram video commenting Acolyte being cancelled. She stated that she was not surprised at the show getting cancelled and cited a rampage of vitriol as reason. The problem with that is the vitriolic people do not have the power to tank the viewership of a Star Wars show or getting it cancelled. The only way Amandla's video makes sense is if "vitriol" is extended to mean most people who dislike Acolyte.
Spend one week in the Wrestling Fanbase and you’ll see what a proper toxic fanbase looks like.
Im a pro wrestling fan and all I'll say is look at how Chris Benoit is treated compared to Hulk Hogan by the majority of Pro Wrestling fans
Not one Star Wars fan even the most toxic of the fandom, would even behave that way
Lol, omg... I had to block practically every wrestling "fan" page on Facebook because I actually enjoy AEW and I'm tired of the 24/7/365 shitstream of people hating AEW just for existing.
Glad I'm not the only one that sees that fanbase as toxic.
@@CharlesH-t9r Why is Benoit revered and Hogan hated? I don't get the love for Benoit. Hogan, I get some of the hate, he is a polarizing figure.
@@A_RUclips_Commenter Benoit did fake fighting moves well he was considered a "underdog" who was a "small guy" (he was nearly 240lbs he wasn't small at all he was huge man) and he could "put on great matches" so despite he not only killed his wife , he killed his special needs son then himself that they blame his ex wife's ex husband or CTE
As for Hulk Hogan, as far as I know he said some racist things and lied about things inside the pro wrestling business but treated him like he's worse than Benoit because he was "bad " at fake fighting and he made sure he always looked good is a pretty shitty mindest to have
I can't ever imagine anyone hating Rose Tico more than the people responsible for writing that character in the first place.
There were a few, there are always a few.
Yep
I think Kylo Ren and Rey are more annoying than her.
I never had anything against Rose. She was fine. Though, I though Benicio Del Toro’s character was my favorite and I wished we could’ve seen more of him in the third film, but never did.
Majority of the hate came from the MSM. If anything, most of the fans were defending her for the short end of the stick she was given.
The opposite of love is not hate. It's apathy.
In real life fan bases are great for the most. Online people get too crazy sometimes.
Real
True we have to acknowledge that downplaying or acting as if it's not relevant isn't logical (she pointed it out)
Many won't do that
Prequel rage bait grifters over hyped the hate but it was there
Though Jake Loyd and Ahmed Best were bullied before the internet became a thing. So, yeah the fanbase went to the Dark Side even then. And it’s getting worse.
never forget that fan is short for fanatic.
Fanbase: exists for 30 years
Star Wars: adds new thing
Fanbase: this is kinda annoying
Media: JAR JAR IS RACIST
Game companies: making amazing Star Wars games
Authors: still writing great stories
...
Media, decades later: FANBASE BULLIED JAR JAR OFF (social media that wasn't really a thing back then)
Disney: buys it and pretends to go back to classics, but also says no more new games or books unless they say so (claiming the sandbox)
Fanbase: oh, interesting? I hope...
Disney: SUBVERTS EXPECTATIONS
Fanbase: what the f--!?
Disney: oh, sorry we were only trying to do a little subverting pls dont be mad
Fanbase: I'm pretty mad
Disney: but look, Mandalorian!
Fanbase: oh, cool!
Disney: also, here's Luke Skywalker as you always wanted to see him!
Fanbase: HELL YEAH!
Disney: but we're also going to start firing people for what they say on social media
Fanbase: wait...what!? But we liked her.
Disney: and now we aren't even trying because you didn't like our politics
Fanbase: thanks for making it easy
Social justice has the most toxic fandom, by far.
I second this opinion. I've seen many fandoms, but this is the only one I've seen actually make a continuous, public, regular habit of physically assaulting anyone that disagrees with them. I've never seen a Star Wars fan smash someone's head open with a bike lock. I've never seen a MPL fan overturn a table and throw fluids in a person's face because they don't appreciate them voicing an opinion. I've never seen a Trekkie rip the cables out of someone's microphone equipment because they assumed that person had to be a Klingon for voicing a differing opinion. I've never seen a Sonic fan spend an entire year posting on Twitter that millions of people should be marched into a war zone to die as civilian combatants to achieve "world peace". All these things, I have witnessed from the hands and mouths of those that claim Social Justice and Tolerance as their creedo.
Oh that's so true xD . SJW (Social Justice Warriors) has been a term for ages even
Oh that's so true xD. SJW (Social Justice Warriors) has been a term for ages even
When you order a steak dinner at a restaurant and then complain when they bring you a dog turd, and they call you toxic...
I have a strange feelings that problem (or one of them) lies here in fact, that big media companies treating their investors as "paying customers" and fans as "means of production", thus they express easily frustration with fans disappointment as in their heads, "means of production" shouldn't do that.
"Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans". - Yes because we CARE. Same goes for every franchise.
Do you care enough to ruin lives of actors just because you hate a show?
@@AmericaChavez17 I didn't write a single word to any of the actors. (I don't even have Twitter). And neither did 99,9% of the fans. There are some crazy weirdos (like Reylo shippers), but they exist in every fanbase.
@@Сайтамен not every fanbase would want actors to die just because they don’t like the character. What makes you think 99.9% of people don’t have X? Just because you don’t doesn’t mean the rest of the world is like you
@@AmericaChavez17 I said most of them don't write anything to the actors. And yes, when you become a celebrity, you should be prepared to face some hate, that's life. With the money they are making tons of people would accept that position.
@@Сайтамен there’s a different between facing hate and just wanting people to die. Star Wars fans are notorious for that. It’s not one or two individuals mind you, it’s the entire fanbase. Do you even know Ahmed Best nearly contemplated suicide because the only crime he has committed was playing Jar Jar Binks. You say that’s life and when celebrities snap back at you, you call them unreasonable, ignorant or woke
It's true that some fans can take it too far. It's also true corporations use and even overstate harassment as a shield to criticism. Star wars being an example of both
The idea of toxic fans is a relatively new thing. There was a time when Hollywood would never say such things about the audience. It was art; you make the art, put it out there, and it rises and falls on its own merits. Hollywood has become so thin skinned that they just lash out at everything. They've sorta gone crazy with narcissism.
Its a skapegoat for morons that can't write a good story.
I think it's not just narcissism, I think it also speaks of other concerns than to sell. Calling fans toxic is from a business standpoint suicide, you can only drive away fans by doing so. You can make professional critics feel compelled to give a product a good review if there is the threat of being called whatever-ist otherwise, but that threat is completely inefficient on individual customers. If getting customers (viewers) is the goal, there is no reason to call your fans toxic. As such, calling your fans toxic indicates that defending your product is more important than your product being marketable. Now, your suggestion of narcissism fits here, but considering that Disney has made a big deal of bringing in women, black people and LGBT people, I propose that they feel they have to defend that decision and the goal with calling fans toxic is exactly that.
PSA: if YOU feel called out because an actor from one of these movies is condemning the racism/sexism they’ve had to go through from Star Wars “fans,” then that says more about YOU than it does about the actor, or even DISNEY. And I fucking hate Disney.
5:17 the wild thing is, that wasn’t stuff coming from internet threads in 1999. That was stuff coming from the critics at the time. This is largely before the popularity of online discussion threads. The same critics shaming the actual regular shmegular Star Wars fans, are the same ones that drove Amed best to that point
No we are the most abused and gaslit fanbase followed by warhammer fans.
> Me seeing what the MHA and Genshin Impact communities are capable of “Oh, you’re serious? Let me laugh even harder!”
Shit. Not even Star Wars fans ever bullied a fanartist into committing suicide like Steven Universe fans.
there is a part of me that says part of the fan base IS toxic ... just look at all the hate and constant death threats someone like SWT gets for calling out the bad story and writing .... he doesn't like a TV SHOW someone else does and they say he should die for that.... that part of the "fan base" IS toxic
I don't buy that genuine star wars fans are sending the threats rather than just twitter rats who defend current thing.
I’m sorry, but I’d be really pissed off too. Like Ford telling you the Mach E is a Mustang and you buy it and realize it’s actually nothing like the car you remember from your childhood.
They betrayed and murdered my Star Wars. Then they called me racist. Of course I’m going to be upset.
Done with subjective labels like toxic. One persons toxic is another’s passionate. Stick to the basics and just be decent with one another.
My Hero Academia fans…..
You’ll find toxic fans in any fandom, it’s not unique to Star Wars. And they’re always in a minority.
Notice that in the thumbnail the women are very grumpy while Jar Jar is very cheerful.
"Perhaps I treated you too harshly"
To be completely honest it's more or less the people online who have extreme takes on the franchise. Most Star Wars fans I've met myself included are just civil and good people who simply love the franchise.
And honestly if you love a franchise then you should be allowed to hold that franchise to a higher standard.
Where Disney gets it wrong is that they believe that they can change something everyone loves and still expect the same outcomes. I mean how much lore has Disney manipulated in order to attempts to make subpar stories work? I mean seriously, no one would have had a problem with Ray if Disney didn't go out of its way to destroy Luke. I personally would have loved the story where Luke trained in a stormtrooper
The Star Wars writers, producers, directors, and actors are the most toxic ever. All they do is attack, attack, attack.
Just like how onlinestar wars fans send death threats to actors because they played a character they didn’t like…
Most real fans has already left the building.
You have to remember, when the prequels came out, the fans made a documentary called People vs George Lucas. That documentary shows all the fans that didn’t like the prequels and why they didn’t like them. They even wrote a song as to why they didn’t like the state of Star Wars. They didn’t like the changes George made to the original trilogy to make the Special Edition versions like changing that Han shot Greedo first to shooting second and then to shooting at the same time. They hated the extra CG he added to the original trilogy. Now the Special Edition versions are the only ones you can buy at stores and see streaming. The original versions of the original trilogy can’t be found unless you buy a bootleg from a comic con vendor or somewhere online. That is how I got my copy on Blu-ray.
That documentary was an embarrassment. It should be banned.
Re-watching it the fans just looking incredibly petty and toxic.
The sad part is, you will never see a documentary, the people versus Disney like that because those same people that made that shit shit documentary or practically jerking off to the sequel trilogy while trying to pretend their flawless.
I’m from Boston and the worst fans out there are New York Yankees fans! Or it’s Boston Red Sox fans. But when did people forget about the passion and rage of Sports fans? Isn’t that a fair comparison? Look at European Soccer ⚽️ fans. They’re downright psychotic! But they roar when we win and they give heat to the players, coaches, and owners when they are losers. Historically o recently found out about the chariot races of the Roman Empire and the Blues versus the Greens was violent for hundreds of years. The Star Wars controversy is nothing compared to Sports. Look at parents at kids games! I get there can be toxic fans in Star Wars yeah they’re here but there more oversensitive new fans who use Star Wars as a platform for political messaging and social justice-ing. Those people need the oppressor/oppressed dynamic in order to make their ideology function. It’s evident from Star Wars, Trek, Dr Who, WH40K, video gaming, knitting! Yet where is the correlation to Sports? Are there parallels in behavior? Like Sports fans, fandom give heat when we’re losing. Thanks, Theresa as always I love your takes!
I'll always love the star wars that makes sense. I'm open to disney sw when it's good (fallen order, rogue one, andor). But I'm never gonna get excited for something sw again just because it's sw, cause now I never know how it's gonna turn out
You should see the Mortal Kombat fanbase. It's been nuked by franchise killers. The same franchise killers that nuked SW/Marvel.
My parents took me to see Return of the Jedi for my 4th birthday. I took myself to see all the prequels, and I thoroughly enjoyed them. TFA was very promising, and even after TLJ let us all down, I still went to the theater to give TROS a chance. In my opinion Star Wars fans have been patient and gracious with all the content since Disney took over, only to constantly be disrespected for wanting fun , quality stories that stay true to the spirit and lore of the originals
You can tell trekkies are smarter than star wars fans, and always have been, because when our franchise went into the toilet we just stopped watching, we didn't create an entire industry devoted to watching and complaining about it. You got dumped, accept it, you'll be happier. Trekkies also don't try to paper over the racist mistakes in our franchise like gen Z are now trying to do with jar jar; truly the worst generation.
The OT.
The Thrawn Trilogy (books).
Dark Empire (comics).
The Clone Wars (both versions).
Star Wars Bounty Hunter (PS2)
Star Wars: Republic-Commando videogame.
Shadows of the Empire (N64 game).
The Kyle Katarn games (PC).
Star Wars The Force Unleashed (Ps3) .
Jedi: Fallen Order videogame.
Jedi:Survivor videogame.
Vader Immortal (VR).
Star Wars Rebels.
The Mandalorian S1 and 2.
Consider me pleased,
Everything else I've seen was a disappointment.
We're not hard to please, Star Wars is hard to make if you don't get it.
They don't and they blame us.
That's like 1% of EU
@@Hello-bi1pm
True, I prefer Star Wars when it's visual or involves Luke.
I'm also a massive Sci-fi fan with over 100 other franchises I love so I won't be reading about Plagueis or Revan or most of the EU.
Just listing what I loved and still do, and acknowledging that Disney has fallen pathetically short of the quality we used to have.
I think toxic franchises generate toxic fandoms. This goes for any medium, games, shows, books. If the Star Wars prequels and sequels were actually good films that pleased the audience, then there wouldn't be complaints on the scale we've seen.
Being called toxic is now a badge of honour !!!
And I wear it with pride now too
I have all the Star Wars I need from VHS tapes (by now ripped to DVD) from the early 90s. So this modern audience may feel free to provide Disney with all the Star Wars revenue it desires.
MHA, MLP, LoK, Sonic, Frieren fans all exist. Star Wars fans are not even top 20. Not even close. Their complaints are about canon and respecting it. That's valid.
Don't forget FCC, WGB, HRS, and XYZ
Wait what did Frieren do 💀
Sonic fans are just mostly moronic(the kind who always look into the gift horse's mouth). While bronies are cringe and actively made the show mutch worse!
Not even close. Remember the Steven Universe fans who nearly caused a kid to off herself? We are not any where close to that. We are critical because we love Star Wars, not toxic.
That still pisses me off to this day.
Stop using other Fandom nonsense to cover up you both of y'all Fandom need showers
I loved the prequels, it was a coherent story , and yes it is flawed, but unlike the sequels was a no where near that , they were all over the place , not to mention there are just bad movies!!
You forget that Southpark catered to the fans that hated the prequels and hated the 4th Indy Jones movie. That was part of it.
A strange question to ask when Steven Universe and My Little Pony exist. And don't even get me started on all the furries obsessed with Sonic.
Lmao not even in the same league as kpop or anime fans.
I think that it's part of the DNA of the Star Wars fandom to look for the "original" or "true" Star Wars. We're trained to do this because Lucas tried to gaslight us for years, beginning with claiming that the 1977 film called "Star Wars" had always been always "the fourth film", and trying to convince us that the original trilogy was a lie because it didn't have CG dinosaurs, making a prequel trilogy about sand in ass and politics, etc.
A Star Wars fan always seeks a true product because this franchise has been lying to fans since 1980. But only Disney can be as shameless as calling our distaste for bad movies "toxic".
Bad should also be in quotations because whether or not you want to admit it, art is subjective. Everything that is said about Star Wars, including the fandoms, is based on opinion. Just as much people like those sequels, they're just not loud or saying anything online. And it's not just hating certain movies, it's also being disrespectful towards those that may like those movies, harassing the actors among other things, pushing their opinions as if it were the only ones that mattered (they really don't) among other things is what makes fandoms toxic, not just disliking a series of movies from one company with whom one disagrees with their direction. If you want to hate the Disney sequels and say they were bad, that's your right, but be civil about it and do it with dignity and be respectful of those that do like them.
There is actual video proof that he was very abusive to Shelly Duval on the shining its really sad
Considering the intense hatred they used to have for the Prequel trilogy, despite how awsome they were, and how several actors ended up suffering from depression and mental illness as a result of the bullying they recieved (Jar Jar and Anakin) Star Wars fans aren't exactly doing themselves any favors. I was neve ra Star Wars fan, I liked the original movies and the Prequels, but I was never a fan. Even if people have come around and realized how good the Prequels are, despite some of us realizing this from the start, that hasn't stopped some from still disliking them, and it doesn't seem like people have realized that Jar Jar was a funny character and is still disliked by some.
The new Star Wars movies/tv shows, are objectively bad, that is just a fact, but considering past events, yes, Star Wars fans are very toxic.
1:36 My headcanon has always been that it was Disney associates or disney adjacent ppl that went to Lucas and convinced him fans were angre at his vision. Most Star Wars fans pre disney, real fans not cinema critics or mainstream audiences, were super loyal and respectful of his vision, even if they don't always liked everything.
That's my conspiracy theory. Disney groomed Lucas so he would sell it. Probably a close friend to him inside Lucasfilm And the only one matching the criteria is... 👀
Is Kathleen Kennedy?
No, people are allowed to have opinions about the quality of a product. Early product was high quality, later offerings were low quality. Calling people toxic is just an excuse to sell inferior product.
Can someone show me where to turn in my official Star Wars Fan membership card? I'll stop complaining, but in return, can they stop trying to sell me new Star Wars junk?
One of the Biggest contributions on Prequel hate are Red Letter Media and Alexandre O. Philippe. The former was basis for the movie review subgenre at the time and his work from the Prequels and the Chrystal Skull in this extent are still cited on this day.
Both gave narrative that Lucas was incompitent at making the Prequels. Like the myth that he was surrounded by the yesmen or overuse of CGI to even too many plotholes.
Example the wooden dialogue at the Anakin and Padmé romance subplot in the context of the film ment that socially awkward Anakin who was in a order that didn't like attachment tries to date girl he loves. (Shorthy Anakin is no gigachad rizzler).
For the politics part they give enough info and context what is happening in the galaxy whitch kinda fixes few "plotholes" if you pay attention.
The 2008 the Clone Wars after re-watching feels like apology tour some ways similar to the Last Crusaide for the unhappy vocal minority. Example it turns Anakin into a different character entirely and poorly maps out the conflict while making it look too black and white. It also makes a plothole in order to fix a made up problem in the film.
Fuck, red letter media!
They trashed the prequel yet are practically jerking off to anything Disney SW.
They won’t admit that Star Wars is bad or even criticizing and still act like the prequel did more damage .
Red letter media did more damage to the brand that anyone! fuck them !
Instead of pandering to existing fans, Disney sought the attention of a new demographic. There aren't enough new fans and old fans carrying over ti make big-budget SW films viable. So what to do? That's right, blame the ticket and toy buyers and keep pressing forward. It's a lack of accountability. It's a lot easier to amplify the words of a handful of toxic people and paint the fans with a broad brush than to admit to your own failures as an entertainer.
Journos shilling for Disney: The Star Wars fanbase is truly the most TOXIC and HORRIBLE fanbase ever!!!
Me: so I guess we're just gonna pretend Voltron: Legendary Defender never happened.
It’s always been a thing my dudes. This has nothing to do with Disney, this has always been a internet problem.
The real question is are there any real Star Wars fans left in this world?
We don’t see much hero’s journey stories anymore in Star Wars.
Star Wars is this fascinating balancing act of telling an inspiring story about rebellion, myth, self-discovery, spirituality, and adventure, but it's also a giant toy commercial. The more I think about it, I'm surprised it worked once, let alone twice.
oh, "right your own ship". Not "write your own 'ship'". Because they did the latter muchly.
I don't think the Star Wars fandom is toxic. I just think that if you provoke someone long enough, like the cast and everyone behind these terrible shows keep doing, then inevitably people are going to get frustrated and retaliate. Bitterness is to be expected when you handle things the way Disney Star Wars handles things.
As for George in the prequels, first of all the OT was indeed HIS vision: this BS narrative of Star Wars being “saved in the edit” is, well, BS
I’d say the problem with the prequels is
1) he was overtaxed: he planned to cowrite the script with Carrie Fisher and/or Lawrence Kasdan and directorial duties were to go to friends of his. Among those in line to direct, names like Francis Ford Coppola, Ron Howard and Stephen Spielberg were on the table. No one was up for the challenge and George was left to write, direct, produce and establish the main plot and the foundational lore of the universe
2) it had been almost 20 years since ROTJ and George’s vision changed with the times. He always wanted to pioneer new techniques, ever since the OT of course. Furthermore, his new story was meant to reflect recent real live events. In other words he was at a different point in his life then when he first made the OT
Lucas also wanted to make something new each time without each movie feeling the same. I think that makes them better, but I understand why it's going to turn off some people.
Star Wars fans after the Last Jedi’s insane Mediocrity went from being a Casual Fan base, to being one of the most Unacceptably Toxic Communities out there.
I agree so much with this. You speak the truth, and people who make it so black and white is just disheartening. I have given up really on Disney Star Wars, really only checking in if my fave characters show up (Grievous appears for a minute? Cool, I’ll watch that and then move on I do not care about the rest). The only excitement left in Star Wars now is discovering the EU and seeing the fandom use their passion to bring some life into this universe Disney doesn’t care about. All fandoms have their bad eggs, but it is the fans who have the heart of the series.
5:37 I loved jar jar and i never saw any hatred for him until rage bait grifters like Rlm and Doug Walker
And as you said the media didn't do any favors
The prequals were before the social media explosion. Facebook was technically founded before Attack of the Clones, but I think social media took off after the arrival of the iphone. I'm sure reddit was hatred, but it was a different era. Nowadays, the hatred can be wall-to-wall and can follow you 24/7. In the early 2000s, being largely offline was more plausible. So, derision was probably more driven by the media. I'd at least point to the south park parody of Jar Jar with 'Jakovasaurs'.
Mockery would require that you watch a show or overhear a comment. It seems a little different to being on twitter and facebook and having a much larger group of people leave flaming bags of poop on your virtual doorstep.
Oh you sweet summer child. Jar Jar was openly hated long before the people you mentioned. It was done in person back in the day.
@@Drums_of_Liberation
I seen it!
@@victorcates9330 Yeah, but we had people like Simon Pegg crapping all over the prequels, then calling people toxic if they didn't like the sequels.
To me the problem begin with The Last Jedi. Ruin Johnson destroyed EVERYTHING stabilized on Force Awakens and made it his personal “Joker 2” movie with it. It’s a billionaire franchise and you can’t let someone uses it as amateur personal project. I get that Rise of Skywalker they had to play safe and nothing bold, but the damage of the Ruin Johnson spread to it and it’s a movie made with no passion and everyone involved looked like they found something just to fill the contract and then carry on with the lives. I think the best solution is they start to make more Legacy stories and shut down the Disney timeline for good. Then they can make a Heir to the Empire movie. Could even be a cartoon movie! That would be great.
1:46
I just aged like Matt Damon another end of Saving Private Ryan
I was 18 in May of '99
you do a great job with your content whether it be star wars or something else my dear. you get my two paw stamps of approval 😸
Who says we are the worst? Oh right, the media and the news sites and Disney/Lucasfilm.
Star Wars fans are hyperbolic and freely expressive
And given how many people, some will be toxic. But the Supernatural fandom would like to have a word about toxic fandom. But thats just some humans being weird. Most of us are just chilling
Side note. Lucas having an overseer might have resulted in a better product. But its just as likely it would have been worse. We dont know, cant know. But i know what the prequels were, profitable. They sold merchandise like the sky was falling.
Cant say the same now
It truly baffles me that so many mindlessly simp for big corporations (like Hollywood and AAA video game companies) to punch down on the fans.
George Lucas did not sell Lucasfilm because of "toxic fans." George was sold on the idea of selling Lucasfilm to Disney by Bob Iger. In other words, George needed to be convinced (George would say manipulated, and that does seem to be the case) to sell. He was not looking to sell and had already began writing a sequel trilogy.
Debunked.
Every fan is called toxic nowdays for not consuming everything without thinking.
The kid who played Anakin in Episode 1 was routinely harassed and bullied by the parent's of his classmates.
Yes. Star Wars fans suck.
That’s kids all over the world
And Ahmed Best. Damm...... The fans ironically behaved more like the Sith than the Jedi. That’s Dark Side like behavior, nothing Jedi about them at all.
@coletrain583 ...um. You guys ARE aware that the media was also VERY hateful towards Jar Jar Binks back in the day, right? The media were the ones who came out saying that Jar Jar was racist and everyone went along with it.
@@ajdz1840 kids dont regularly get harrassed by their peer's parents. Tf you on?
Im pretty sure the reylos are the worts part of the fandom.
Speaking as one who, at 5 years old, saw the original Star Wars in its first run, I 100% agree with your assessment of the present state of the franchise. Keep up the great analysis, you nailed it!
All I can say at this point is that mostly withdrawing from the Star Wars fandom (at least from an online standpoint) is one of the best decisions I ever made
This is a great take on so many points.
The ones claimed to be toxic make videos breaking down their issues bit by bit. The people claiming they are toxic are fools who paint everyone with the same brush and never prove how that is the case. And not long ago, people had issue for claiming Star Wars Theory was toxic, when he wasn't, and they had to back the f*ck down.
it’s really not that complicated,anything written should respect the lore established previously by Mr.Lucas within that universe 🤔
Agreed.
You have to understand the lore first. Filoni worked with Lucas and I don't think even he gets it.
Thank you JesterBell for showing Daisy Riddley's comment in context. I know she singled out men there, which isn't something I like. But, I realise she's referring mainly to the sexism that she may have seen directed at her character.
Dude, Finn as the lead in a Star Wars trilogy would have been so cool!
Friggin former stormtrooper? Leans so hard into the redemption of the first 6 films, and could have ventured on from that. I'm still planning to rewrite the sequels one day.
But, at the same time, I'm worried about my mental health.
Diagnosed autism and PTSD are distracting.
Honestly, we don't need more kids watching SW these days. My parents would not have shown me Disney SW.
Well spoken as usual, I totally agree with your insights
No. But Star Wars is so Huge and Old it literally has Many fan bases. OG, Comics, Books, Prequels, Animation, Sequels and Today. Just like sports.
i'm pretty sure the nazis were the worst fanbase ever, or maybe the mayans or conquistadors, or the people that did the spanish inquisition, or perhaps the missionaries who came to north america and messed with the first nations peoples... but i also think DEI is one of the worst fanbases i've seen, since all those other things happened before i was born.
the question is are people only fans of movies? or can they be fans of anything, including political and religious beliefs?
I couldn’t care less about Star Wars at this point, but I always appreciate your takes.
Yes they are.
criticizing bad writing is one thing
hating on an actor, which drives him to retirement, bullying a child, causing him to get depression and mental illness since like, very early, is another, which is unforgivable
Let’s say you hire a chef. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you get King Crab legs, then a Kobe steak, then hardwood baked sockeye salmon. Thursday, Friday, Saturday you get chicken nuggets, then a hamburger, then broiled tilapia. So you hire a different chef and get tofu, then bean sprouts, then quinoa. All the sudden nuggets, burgers and tilapia doesn’t sound so bad.
Tofu, bean sprouts and quinoa are still good, they’re just side dishes mostly and need to go with other ingredients. It would be more to say twigs made to look like crab legs, vomit soup, and a shit sandwich as these things aren’t even meant for consumption, at least by most people’s standards.