I didn't see that in the box. I almost never use the cables from the boxes of products because I already have so many cables in my setup. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
@@PassionforSound he's not interested in what his viewers want to see, he pays no attention hence he doesn't see past himself. He only presents what he is interested in..... probably better to unsubscribe move on and find a channel that's interested in its subscribers...that leaves this woke snowflake out!
So glad you're liking it. I'm hoping to keep mixing it up. I've got some cool (I hope) ideas that I'd love to get to, but I'll need to get the channel earning more $$$ so I can ease back on the day job first.
I have to agree with @ProjectOverseer re: "budget". I bought the AO200mkII to drive my beloved old $50 Sony bookshelfs at my work station, but as a cute experiment tried swapping it in for my Accuphase in my main system. I was completely shocked how easily it could drive my 89 db efficient Wilsons and fill the 300 square foot space with oodles of headroom to spare. It brought some new flavors to the table all its own: fantastic detail, energy, dynamics, and slam, all with a surprising degree of transparency which made it easy to resolve differences in cables, tubes, and components upstream. It doesn't cost a lot, but can scale way up, making me think this is a great way to get in the game to free up cash for where it counts: DAC, preamplification, and cables. In the end, I missed the Accuphase for its more refined sound: better air, space, separation, smoothness, imaging, more body to the notes at the cost of some attack, more grunt. But the SMSL held its own and could hang. Hats off to these innovative products.
I know manufacturers hate it when their products are compared to cheap, but consumers want to know the differences so they can decide how deep they want to go.
I never worry about that, but the comparison wouldn't have been very helpful in this case because the gulf is too large. I'll aim to build up a bit more of a selection of comparison products as I do more reviews of amps. I'll be keeping the AL200 as a budget D-Class reference point for now so that will help in the future.
Great video of these budget priced speaker amps, technology is progressing in leaps and bounds, soon these budget amps will indeed compete with higher priced amps if they are not already. Very useful indded. Thanks
The AO200 is a great little amp. I have it with a Bifrost 2/64 and have been very happy with the mk1 model over my old NAD D3045. Definitely a small room amp in my opinion or office.
Although I really dont currently have an application for one of these, it's worth noting we're so damn fortunate ... ie., the current state of affairs in quality affordable hifi ... fffnnn off the charts! Just extraordinary. Individuals much younger than me, may not fully appreciate the context of how good we have it today. A wealth of offerings, and all the data and content to explore and consume when making buying decisions. I been buying gear since the 70's, the landscape today is a phenomenal buyers market. These are the good old times. Certainly... there's pitfalls to avoid, but there's also clear best practices to pursue.
Speaker pairings are really important. I have Dali speakers that sound great with smsl , and small triangle speakers that sound great with topping. I have a REL sub attached to topping.
I have a Douk amp. Volume,treble,bass banana speaker connection and Bluetooth driving a pair of Qacoustics 2020i speakers. For $85 it's exceptional. Not my main system which has Exposure / vienna acoustics combo but the Douk is unbelievable for amp that fits in the palm of your hand and is dirt cheap.
I have an original PA5 that doesn’t have the bass resolution of my LA90 but it’s very lush and listenable, not fatiguing at all. The treble is quite detailed. I ordered Topping TRS and RCA cables and they are pricey but excellent. Did you use the amp fully balanced?
No, I didn't think I ran it balanced due to the need for a TRS connection. The DACs I use for testing are at a higher level than the E50 which is my only TRS output DAC.
Yes. I can only compare with what I have on hand though and I'm still new to speaker amp reviews so I don't have the library of comparison gear in this category like I do for DACs, headphone amps, headphones and IEMs.
Hi Passion, I just came from watching your meze elite and focal clear videos. I trust your descriptions of the sound and I think I share your preferences. I'm looking for the foot tapping head bobbing grooving set of headphones. Would you say that Meze Elite are the best for this? Thanks in advance!
I have just picked up a Topping PA5 II plus and I must say that I don't agree with this at all. The only SMSL amp I have had was the A300, so not sure how that compares to the two here, but my Topping out performs it hands down and without any need for using EQ settings of the SMSL - particularly with detail retrieval and sound stage. Quite an astonishing little amp IMO. It even out-performs my Rotel All Tribute in most areas, except for probably sound stage and depth, but I happily give up some of that in exchange for the Topping's articulation.
Can ao200 mk 2 drive Usher x719 speakers ? With lower model denon receiver Ushers sound like crap but they sing with anthem mrx 720 . I wonder if something like so200 mk 2 is worth considering for Ushers ?
It will have enough power (any of these will), but I don't think it will make them sing. These amps don't really have that quality to their sound. I'd recommend investing a bit more into something like a Burson Funk or other Class-AB or similar type amp.
@@PassionforSound instrument amps are getting up there with class D! GaN not yet, but you see the tech in RF applications a lot too. It is taking a while as you said.
They are very different products. The AL200 is a DAC and speaker amp with a headphone output. The others are DAC and headphone amps without speaker capability. If you're not needing speaker amplification, the AL200 doesn't make much sense.
I've been involved in mid to high end audio since the early 80s. In this time I've collected a fair bit of kit. In the last few years I have collected a lot of SMSL amps and DACS ... Like I said, I have some lovely high end kit, i even own a pro home recording studio. So why SMSL? Number one. SMSL kick way above their price, and the first lesson I learnt was "Don't Treat Them Like Cheap Amps or DACS" ... Your bland "play it safe" review missed the potental possible by a mile. The AL200 is a mind blowing Amp and Dac combo ... Treat it like high end in regards to cables used and what you connect the digital input to. Also speakers ... I actually enjoyed the SMSL driving £3500 speakers. It did it with ease, and sounded as good as my mid range pre/power also costing £3500 Did you bin the supplied USB cable and replace with a quality sudio grade USB? The difference is very marked. Did you try the MQA feature? I've always been critical of MQA - until now. Bare wire speaker cable is best on these Amps and SMSL Amps and DACS with XLR is also very good. You didn't mention your reference kit or the room used to listen or even examples of your listening experience.
I agree that the SMSL gear is great for the money. Having compared it to higher end gear like the Burson Timekeeper GT monoblocks and Linear Tube Audio MZ3, I'm also confident that it doesn't deliver the same level of performance as higher end amplification when paired up with a high end DAC like a TT2, May, Yggdrasil, etc. It also shouldn't be expected to compare because it's far cheaper. For the money you spend, these two SMSL amps are exactly as I said: good, safe options
Thanks for your reply. I own a stupid amount of equipment - much of it mid to high end, but these days I seem to impulse buy SMSL Amps and DAC'S for the amazing value and sound quality possible from these little ground breaking products. I'm also lucky enough to own a pretty good small pro recording studio that can master high sample/bit rate multi tracked recordings to two track DSD masters. So I have the cool opportunity to hear the whole process from live instruments to recording - though not all acoustic. The SMSL DACS and Amps (or combo) come into their own when fed a high quality digital signal. If you haven't already, download some free DSD masters from a good studio to hear what I mean. I'm retired now, but still enjoy the art - my ears are still trained to listen into mixes. Of course, if I use my Krell KSA 250 it will blow the socks off of the SMSL in terms of power and err, power. But in terms of sound quality, I'm not necessarily hearing more or better - though I know plenty who think "pin you to the wall" bass and volume is better. If you get a chance, try the SMSL AO300. I think it's another ground breaking product for the money. I've stopped treating these Amps and DACs as budget Components. I used the AO300 this morning on speakers costing considerably more and was pleasantly surprised.
I had the original AO200 And while it was good enough in bass and treble for me, the mids were dry and voices were thin. I thought I could address this with the tone controls. And while it had plenty of tone controls, all of them would change bass or treble, but never mids, which was a shame and finally the reason I got rid of it. It doesn’t seem like this has changed on the MK2. On top, you never seem to have talked about midrange reproduction, which is also important in amplifier reviews.
The midrange reproduction all comes down to synergy with the speakers so unless there's a significant tonal colouration from an amp (which there isn't on any of these three) then it's more about how it works with your specific setup and I can't comment on that.
Based on my experience with just these three amps, they definitely aren't as good as a nice Class A or AB, but the issue isn't in the midrange specifically which was my point above.
@@PassionforSound Hi again:) I have 2 x PSB Imagine Surround S bipoles (Presonus actives for all other channels). They'll be 1.8m on either side of the MLP in a 3.5m x 5.5m room. Pre-pro will be an Anthem AVM70, balanced cables to the amp. The Topping PA5 is probably looking like the best contender... (was also considering the new Fosi F3 monoblocks, but probably not now, given their infancy...?) Any thoughts, pray tell? Thanks in advance!
I wasn't a fan of the Topping Class-D amp I tried a while back and think the SMSL ones sounded better. I've got the Fosi monos here now, but haven't tried them yet. I've also got the ZA3 from Fosi. Even without listening, I'd probably choose one of the Fosi options because you can swap op-amps (I think in both models) which allows for some significant upgrade options
Each amp uses either discrete components (transistors, resistors, etc.) to amplify the sound or a little chip referred to as an op-amp. In the Fosi amps, they use those chips and you can swap them out for other, better quality ones. I've done videos about op-amps here on the channel if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/0e9d3Hf0uq4/видео.htmlsi=1efG-PyhtINN95c7
Lucky that I've placed an apology at the beginning of my upcoming Ananda/Arya review. I'm stuck with these pronunciations for now and it's too hard to change while also thinking about what I'm trying to describe in the reviews.
Can anyone let me know if the volume pot on the smsl ao200 controls the volume on the subwoofer out. Im confused by the added caption "The sub output is not adjustable and just follows the main volume."
It means you need to use your subwoofer's volume knob for all tuning adjustments. You can't do any fine tuning using the amplifier to do something like compensate for a specific album. Subwoofers are usually difficult to access and once you get it adjusted, you really don't want to mess with the settings after taking the time to figure them out.
@@spamcan9208 Thanks for the response. I have the aiyima a08 pro with a powered jamo 808 sub. I set the volume and frequency on the sub, but when I adjust the volume on the aiyima, the volume on the sub goes up and down with it. I'm not left listening to sub bass only, lol. I bought the fosi v3 and although described as a sub out, it wasn't. I was considering the pa5 ii, but I am now thinking smsl. I just want to make sure the sub volume stays in line with the amplifier volume when I adjust volume on the amp, if that makes sense.
@@danisold Yes, of course it makes sense! If you turn up the volume to your speakers, you need the subwoofer to proportionally increase as well. I don't know who told you the fosi v3 had a sub out but it doesn't. It's got a 3.5mm out which you can technically hook up a sub to but it doesn't vary output with volume. You would need a preamp with volume control to use the Fosi V3 with a subwoofer or use the subwoofer's speaker level inputs/outputs if it's equipped with them. Unfortunately it appears yours does not.
Just confirming what spamcan had already said: the AO200 MK2 sub out will increase and decrease the sub volume in line with the speaker volume so you just set your sub up once using its onboard adjustments and then everything else is done with the speaker amp.
Was Topping used with its balanced inputs? btw. Topping is probably using something from TPA ps. Topping pa5 has almost completly flat frequency response even though its class D. I assume other two smsl has some load dependency, so you might end up hearing more highs that why topping feel "darker" or whatever you want to call it.
It wasn't about more high-end. There was just a better sense of definition and clarity in the transients and that translates to the imaging and separation too. If they're using different chips, I think the Infineon in the two SMSLs is just better.
They can do, but what I'm saying is that the difference is more than that based on what I'm hearing and my experience of other darker and brighter sounding devices that sometimes do and sometimes don't produce these effects. I expect a measurement of the SMSLs would show a flat frequency response too. Also IIRC, the PA5II showed some significant non-linear distortion on the ASR measurements so that could play a part also. I haven't seen measurements for either SMSL amp to know how they compare.
I will if I can get a demo unit, but it all comes down to availability or review units because the channel can't afford to buy everything that I'd like to review.
true that, the SA400 is my first foray into class D, having heard the Yamaha MX-D1 I was quite impressed and decided to step into the realm of class D. I was mightly skeptical seeing the size of the amp and its ability to drive my NS1000M speakers. Suffice to say, it drives them well to 90db with clarity that compliments the speakers.@@PassionforSound
I absolutely *devour* your reviews -- and I know it would be way, way, way too soon after this one to be thinking about another SMSL product, but the AO-300 (confusing because of the similar name) has both a headphone amp *and* a subwoofer output, so if it's sonically comparable it might be the solution people have been waiting for from this company. Again, I know it's crazy to think you'd be willing to put another SMSL on the bench this soon, but I'd be grateful to know any industry-inside info that you may have, such as whether or not all the key chips are the same. The company literature is a bit vague about whether they are, or aren't.
I don't mind doing the same brand again soon (I've got heaps of Hifiman stuff coming at the moment), but it often comes down to what gear I am sent by manufacturers/distributors/retailers. I'll see about getting the AO300 in. And, I agree that things get confusing with all the similar model numbers and subtle feature differences. Glad I've been able to help with my reviews!
@@PassionforSound I haven't heard my AO300 yet because the speakers got bogged down in a shipping snafu in the UK and I'm still waiting on them (a month later). But in the meantime, Wiim is out with a $300 all-in-one that (obviously?) includes a streamer and the highly regarded Wiim streaming app. So it's a selfish request, but another A/B comparison between the AO300 and the Wiim would be greatly appreciated. I can return the AO300 unopened if the Wiim is a clear upgrade for what amounts to the same money.
I will be reviewing the WiiM Amp, but not for a little while yet because stock is in high demand and the retailer in working with can't spare a demo unit for me at the moment.
For few months I’ve been running a pair of ELAC Unifi 2.0 with the AO200MK2 and I’m absolutely pleased, wouldn’t change it unless I may go to the high end tier. WiiM Pro - Ifi Zen One Signature - SMSL AO200MK2 - ELAC Unifi 2.0 UB52 / Yamaha NS SW50 subwoofer
@@bearded_wolverine3503no need for external pre, it’s an integrated amp, means that it has volume control (therefore internal preamp). My DAC is directly connected through a fixed output.
@@bearded_wolverine3503 it’s an integrated amplifier, means it has a built in pre, absolutely no need for external one. I’m currently looking for another amp to run a different pair of speakers and most likely will buy the same again, it’s that good.
@elialguillen6634 nice I can get the mkii delivered tomorrow with a $30 off coupon too. The only thing I don't see is a grounding post for the turntable. So not sure where I would ground my 1200. I'll be running the amp with a pair of klipsch rp600m and klipsch r120sw sub
I happen to have both the SMSL DO300 and the AO200 mkII. Because they look very good, stacked on top of each other, I like simplicity. But also because of the positive reviews I found. Now, to explain, in a sense it's a step down for me, compared to the system I had 25 years ago. But I have moved to another country, smaller house, different climate. Couldn't keep the Thiel CS2.3 anymore! But I did keep the Marantz SR14 and the DV8300. For CDs. First I got the SMSL DAC because, living in 2023, I have to use Bluetooth (not just for music) and the 15 gb mp3 files of music I have on a notebook. With the SR14 was the idea. But that beast gave up after a month (something in the power protection circuit I believe) so I quickly purchased the SMSL amp, which had positive reviews too. So now I'm playing CDs with the DV8300, and I can choose between the internal, 20 year old, DAC (CS4392 Cirrus Logic) and the new, a ESS Sabre DAC. Well, the new DAC is clearly better, more transparent, without becoming harsh. Not at all. Bass is good, but like 15 years ago, you find out good or excellent recordings, and not so good recordings. I use the balanced connection between the two SMSL units. I hope to get the SR14 repaired soon, and then I can compare two amps! The tank and that small class D one, the old and the new. The Marantz will probably sound a bit warmer. Now, for loudspeakers. I still have my also 20 years old Sony SS LA300ED, on stands. Seems to work pretty good!
@@PassionforSound my favorite 'test' CDs: Oliver Nelson, The blues and the abstract truth. Mark Murphy, Sings the Nat King Cole Songbook. Jennifer Warnes, Famous Blue Raincoat. All superior recordings.
If you really want to know what these Class-D chip-amps can do, cut them loose on a pair of workhorse speakers like the Heresy or L-100 ... you won't be disappointed.
These amps are dangerously approaching $300. Why are they always reviewed in complete isolation to tried & true entry-level A/B amplifiers? For crying out loud, just buy a refurbished Cambridge Audio amp for $300.
I can only compare products with what I have on hand. I would love to do a D vs A/AB comparison and hope to in the future. Having only recently added speakers and amps to the products I review, my library of comparison devices isn't established like it is for DACs, headphone amps, etc.
No he’s perhaps 99% focused on headphones and iems but recently he started reviewing 2 channel speakers in a desktop or nearfield chain. Harbeth p3esr to be specific.
Ahem, pardon me...................... Who told you the rule-of-thumb that 85Wpc is pretty much able to drive any speaker? That's ridiculous. The noobs hear that nonsense & start regurgitating it as gospel. Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
For inefficient speakers the watts a far less important you want amps that stable down to 4 ohms or even 2 ohms as well as high current. Think of a sports car with high horsepower trying to tow a boat trailer. Now then compare a diesel truck with low hp but gobs or torque no pulling the same boat.
Yep. There aren't too many speakers on the planet that need much more than what these can deliver in terms of power quantity. Quality and stability are different discussions, but anyone working with truly difficult and picky speakers probably isn't (or shouldn't be) looking at $250 D-Class amps.
@@TheVeganVicar So the "85 watt rule" means exactly what? Why say these words? What's the reason to be associating 85 watts with a "driving" force minimum?
The AO200 comes with a USB A to USB A cable already. Why did you not state this in the review?
I didn't see that in the box. I almost never use the cables from the boxes of products because I already have so many cables in my setup. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
@@PassionforSound he's not interested in what his viewers want to see, he pays no attention hence he doesn't see past himself. He only presents what he is interested in..... probably better to unsubscribe move on and find a channel that's interested in its subscribers...that leaves this woke snowflake out!
Why do you sound so butthurt?
Loving the diversity of channel content; solid stuff
So glad you're liking it. I'm hoping to keep mixing it up. I've got some cool (I hope) ideas that I'd love to get to, but I'll need to get the channel earning more $$$ so I can ease back on the day job first.
I have to agree with @ProjectOverseer re: "budget". I bought the AO200mkII to drive my beloved old $50 Sony bookshelfs at my work station, but as a cute experiment tried swapping it in for my Accuphase in my main system. I was completely shocked how easily it could drive my 89 db efficient Wilsons and fill the 300 square foot space with oodles of headroom to spare. It brought some new flavors to the table all its own: fantastic detail, energy, dynamics, and slam, all with a surprising degree of transparency which made it easy to resolve differences in cables, tubes, and components upstream. It doesn't cost a lot, but can scale way up, making me think this is a great way to get in the game to free up cash for where it counts: DAC, preamplification, and cables.
In the end, I missed the Accuphase for its more refined sound: better air, space, separation, smoothness, imaging, more body to the notes at the cost of some attack, more grunt. But the SMSL held its own and could hang. Hats off to these innovative products.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I know manufacturers hate it when their products are compared to cheap, but consumers want to know the differences so they can decide how deep they want to go.
I never worry about that, but the comparison wouldn't have been very helpful in this case because the gulf is too large. I'll aim to build up a bit more of a selection of comparison products as I do more reviews of amps. I'll be keeping the AL200 as a budget D-Class reference point for now so that will help in the future.
Great video of these budget priced speaker amps, technology is progressing in leaps and bounds, soon these budget amps will indeed compete with higher priced amps if they are not already. Very useful indded. Thanks
Glad you liked the video. I agree that the quality for the price is excellent!
The AO200 is a great little amp. I have it with a Bifrost 2/64 and have been very happy with the mk1 model over my old NAD D3045. Definitely a small room amp in my opinion or office.
Glad you're enjoying the AO200!
Although I really dont currently have an application for one of these, it's worth noting we're so damn fortunate ... ie., the current state of affairs in quality affordable hifi ... fffnnn off the charts!
Just extraordinary.
Individuals much younger than me, may not fully appreciate the context of how good we have it today. A wealth of offerings, and all the data and content to explore and consume when making buying decisions.
I been buying gear since the 70's, the landscape today is a phenomenal buyers market.
These are the good old times.
Certainly... there's pitfalls to avoid, but there's also clear best practices to pursue.
I agree that we are very fortunate to have the affordable quality of gear that we have access to right now.
I soooooooo need that tshirt. Great review and comparison - thank you!
It's a good one, isn't it!? Glad you liked the video. 🙂🙂
Speaker pairings are really important. I have Dali speakers that sound great with smsl , and small triangle speakers that sound great with topping. I have a REL sub attached to topping.
Yes. System synergy is important. 🙂
I have a Douk amp. Volume,treble,bass banana speaker connection and Bluetooth driving a pair of Qacoustics 2020i speakers.
For $85 it's exceptional.
Not my main system which has Exposure / vienna acoustics combo but the Douk is unbelievable for amp that fits in the palm of your hand and is dirt cheap.
There's some great stuff around at the moment 🙂
I have an original PA5 that doesn’t have the bass resolution of my LA90 but it’s very lush and listenable, not fatiguing at all. The treble is quite detailed. I ordered Topping TRS and RCA cables and they are pricey but excellent. Did you use the amp fully balanced?
No, I didn't think I ran it balanced due to the need for a TRS connection. The DACs I use for testing are at a higher level than the E50 which is my only TRS output DAC.
Seems like you should be comparing them to the budget stuff like the Fosi and Aiyima offerings
Yes. I can only compare with what I have on hand though and I'm still new to speaker amp reviews so I don't have the library of comparison gear in this category like I do for DACs, headphone amps, headphones and IEMs.
Hi Passion, I just came from watching your meze elite and focal clear videos. I trust your descriptions of the sound and I think I share your preferences. I'm looking for the foot tapping head bobbing grooving set of headphones. Would you say that Meze Elite are the best for this? Thanks in advance!
Meze Elite are definitely a good option, but check out the ZMF Caldera too. 🙂
you can opt for dac/dap w good bass control too
although sure wont be as good as factory tuned phones
Great review and comparison. Thanks.
I'm glad you liked it!
I have just picked up a Topping PA5 II plus and I must say that I don't agree with this at all. The only SMSL amp I have had was the A300, so not sure how that compares to the two here, but my Topping out performs it hands down and without any need for using EQ settings of the SMSL - particularly with detail retrieval and sound stage. Quite an astonishing little amp IMO. It even out-performs my Rotel All Tribute in most areas, except for probably sound stage and depth, but I happily give up some of that in exchange for the Topping's articulation.
I'm glad you're enjoying your PA5 II!
SMSL AL200 vs SMSL AD18 which sounds better? Which one will you recommend?
I haven't tried the AD18. Sorry!
Can ao200 mk 2 drive Usher x719 speakers ? With lower model denon receiver Ushers sound like crap but they sing with anthem mrx 720 . I wonder if something like so200 mk 2 is worth considering for Ushers ?
It will have enough power (any of these will), but I don't think it will make them sing. These amps don't really have that quality to their sound. I'd recommend investing a bit more into something like a Burson Funk or other Class-AB or similar type amp.
The future of class D and GaN technology in amps is pretty exciting if you ask me.
I'm yet to hear one that has me properly excited, but it's early days for me with them...
@@PassionforSound instrument amps are getting up there with class D! GaN not yet, but you see the tech in RF applications a lot too. It is taking a while as you said.
Would you recommend smsl al200 over ifi zen dac or fiio k7 at same price?
They are very different products. The AL200 is a DAC and speaker amp with a headphone output. The others are DAC and headphone amps without speaker capability. If you're not needing speaker amplification, the AL200 doesn't make much sense.
Thanks,very helpful @@PassionforSound
I've been involved in mid to high end audio since the early 80s. In this time I've collected a fair bit of kit.
In the last few years I have collected a lot of SMSL amps and DACS ... Like I said, I have some lovely high end kit, i even own a pro home recording studio. So why SMSL?
Number one. SMSL kick way above their price, and the first lesson I learnt was "Don't Treat Them Like Cheap Amps or DACS" ... Your bland "play it safe" review missed the potental possible by a mile. The AL200 is a mind blowing Amp and Dac combo ... Treat it like high end in regards to cables used and what you connect the digital input to. Also speakers ... I actually enjoyed the SMSL driving £3500 speakers. It did it with ease, and sounded as good as my mid range pre/power also costing £3500
Did you bin the supplied USB cable and replace with a quality sudio grade USB?
The difference is very marked. Did you try the MQA feature? I've always been critical of MQA - until now.
Bare wire speaker cable is best on these Amps and SMSL Amps and DACS with XLR is also very good.
You didn't mention your reference kit or the room used to listen or even examples of your listening experience.
I agree that the SMSL gear is great for the money. Having compared it to higher end gear like the Burson Timekeeper GT monoblocks and Linear Tube Audio MZ3, I'm also confident that it doesn't deliver the same level of performance as higher end amplification when paired up with a high end DAC like a TT2, May, Yggdrasil, etc. It also shouldn't be expected to compare because it's far cheaper. For the money you spend, these two SMSL amps are exactly as I said: good, safe options
Thanks for your reply. I own a stupid amount of equipment - much of it mid to high end, but these days I seem to impulse buy SMSL Amps and DAC'S for the amazing value and sound quality possible from these little ground breaking products.
I'm also lucky enough to own a pretty good small pro recording studio that can master high sample/bit rate multi tracked recordings to two track DSD masters. So I have the cool opportunity to hear the whole process from live instruments to recording - though not all acoustic.
The SMSL DACS and Amps (or combo) come into their own when fed a high quality digital signal. If you haven't already, download some free DSD masters from a good studio to hear what I mean.
I'm retired now, but still enjoy the art - my ears are still trained to listen into mixes.
Of course, if I use my Krell KSA 250 it will blow the socks off of the SMSL in terms of power and err, power. But in terms of sound quality, I'm not necessarily hearing more or better - though I know plenty who think "pin you to the wall" bass and volume is better.
If you get a chance, try the SMSL AO300. I think it's another ground breaking product for the money. I've stopped treating these Amps and DACs as budget Components. I used the AO300 this morning on speakers costing considerably more and was pleasantly surprised.
I'll see if I can get my hands on the AO300. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I have always felt that the crossover distortion is the most annoying aspect of the sound of these cheap amps. But glad to hear your take.
I was certainly pleasantly surprised by these, but they haven't yet replaced more expensive Class A or AB amps for me in terms of sound quality.
@PaixãopeloSom seria melhor em qualidade de som eles ou um yamaha ax-1050 ? books Paradigm Studio 20v5 obrigado
I haven't tried those so can't compare them - sorry
I believe the Topping used the TPA3255 chip.
I had the original AO200 And while it was good enough in bass and treble for me, the mids were dry and voices were thin. I thought I could address this with the tone controls. And while it had plenty of tone controls, all of them would change bass or treble, but never mids, which was a shame and finally the reason I got rid of it. It doesn’t seem like this has changed on the MK2. On top, you never seem to have talked about midrange reproduction, which is also important in amplifier reviews.
The midrange reproduction all comes down to synergy with the speakers so unless there's a significant tonal colouration from an amp (which there isn't on any of these three) then it's more about how it works with your specific setup and I can't comment on that.
@@PassionforSound I politely disagree. There is a reason audiophiles all over the world dislike cheap class D amps.
Based on my experience with just these three amps, they definitely aren't as good as a nice Class A or AB, but the issue isn't in the midrange specifically which was my point above.
Passion for Sound!, Thanks Much !.......
Can the cross over for the sub preout be adjusted on the SMSL AO200 MKII?
No, unfortunately not. It's pretty basic
It'd be great if you could review the sabaj a30a digital amp! Seems excellent for the price and there aren't Many reviews on it.
I'll see if the opportunity arises 🙂
A truly excellent review. Thank you!
I'm so glad I could help!
@@PassionforSound Hi again:) I have 2 x PSB Imagine Surround S bipoles (Presonus actives for all other channels). They'll be 1.8m on either side of the MLP in a 3.5m x 5.5m room.
Pre-pro will be an Anthem AVM70, balanced cables to the amp.
The Topping PA5 is probably looking like the best contender...
(was also considering the new Fosi F3 monoblocks, but probably not now, given their infancy...?)
Any thoughts, pray tell?
Thanks in advance!
I wasn't a fan of the Topping Class-D amp I tried a while back and think the SMSL ones sounded better. I've got the Fosi monos here now, but haven't tried them yet. I've also got the ZA3 from Fosi. Even without listening, I'd probably choose one of the Fosi options because you can swap op-amps (I think in both models) which allows for some significant upgrade options
Thanks. Keen to hear what you think of the ZA3 vs Mono vs SMSL 🙏 Sorry - what do you mean by swap op amps?
Each amp uses either discrete components (transistors, resistors, etc.) to amplify the sound or a little chip referred to as an op-amp. In the Fosi amps, they use those chips and you can swap them out for other, better quality ones. I've done videos about op-amps here on the channel if you're interested: ruclips.net/video/0e9d3Hf0uq4/видео.htmlsi=1efG-PyhtINN95c7
There are STILL no long vowels in "Sundara".
Did I refer to the Sundara in this video
@@PassionforSound, yes.
Lucky that I've placed an apology at the beginning of my upcoming Ananda/Arya review. I'm stuck with these pronunciations for now and it's too hard to change while also thinking about what I'm trying to describe in the reviews.
@@PassionforSound, that’s understandable. 🤓
I wil like to pair the Smsl ao200mkii with a pair of kefq150
Your showing topping pa5 ii Plus . which is higher power than the pa5 ii
Am i been to picky .
The amp I have here is the PA5 II (not Plus version). Are you saying that I showed the specs for the Plus? I hope that's not what I've done! 😳
@@PassionforSound In the vid it shows plus .
Bugger! That's not good because I can't go back and edit it now.
Just went and double checked. Both the PA5 II and the Plus output the same 85W into 8 ohms. It's only the 4 ohm output that's higher from the Plus.
Can anyone let me know if the volume pot on the smsl ao200 controls the volume on the subwoofer out. Im confused by the added caption "The sub output is not adjustable and just follows the main volume."
It means you need to use your subwoofer's volume knob for all tuning adjustments. You can't do any fine tuning using the amplifier to do something like compensate for a specific album. Subwoofers are usually difficult to access and once you get it adjusted, you really don't want to mess with the settings after taking the time to figure them out.
@@spamcan9208 Thanks for the response. I have the aiyima a08 pro with a powered jamo 808 sub. I set the volume and frequency on the sub, but when I adjust the volume on the aiyima, the volume on the sub goes up and down with it. I'm not left listening to sub bass only, lol. I bought the fosi v3 and although described as a sub out, it wasn't. I was considering the pa5 ii, but I am now thinking smsl. I just want to make sure the sub volume stays in line with the amplifier volume when I adjust volume on the amp, if that makes sense.
@@danisold Yes, of course it makes sense! If you turn up the volume to your speakers, you need the subwoofer to proportionally increase as well. I don't know who told you the fosi v3 had a sub out but it doesn't. It's got a 3.5mm out which you can technically hook up a sub to but it doesn't vary output with volume. You would need a preamp with volume control to use the Fosi V3 with a subwoofer or use the subwoofer's speaker level inputs/outputs if it's equipped with them.
Unfortunately it appears yours does not.
Just confirming what spamcan had already said: the AO200 MK2 sub out will increase and decrease the sub volume in line with the speaker volume so you just set your sub up once using its onboard adjustments and then everything else is done with the speaker amp.
Was Topping used with its balanced inputs?
btw. Topping is probably using something from TPA
ps. Topping pa5 has almost completly flat frequency response even though its class D. I assume other two smsl has some load dependency, so you might end up hearing more highs that why topping feel "darker" or whatever you want to call it.
It wasn't about more high-end. There was just a better sense of definition and clarity in the transients and that translates to the imaging and separation too. If they're using different chips, I think the Infineon in the two SMSLs is just better.
@@PassionforSound higher frequencies can cause exactly that effect.
They can do, but what I'm saying is that the difference is more than that based on what I'm hearing and my experience of other darker and brighter sounding devices that sometimes do and sometimes don't produce these effects. I expect a measurement of the SMSLs would show a flat frequency response too. Also IIRC, the PA5II showed some significant non-linear distortion on the ASR measurements so that could play a part also. I haven't seen measurements for either SMSL amp to know how they compare.
Please test SMSL SA400 or its DAC added version namely the WMV A2.
I will if I can get a demo unit, but it all comes down to availability or review units because the channel can't afford to buy everything that I'd like to review.
true that, the SA400 is my first foray into class D, having heard the Yamaha MX-D1 I was quite impressed and decided to step into the realm of class D. I was mightly skeptical seeing the size of the amp and its ability to drive my NS1000M speakers. Suffice to say, it drives them well to 90db with clarity that compliments the speakers.@@PassionforSound
I absolutely *devour* your reviews -- and I know it would be way, way, way too soon after this one to be thinking about another SMSL product, but the AO-300 (confusing because of the similar name) has both a headphone amp *and* a subwoofer output, so if it's sonically comparable it might be the solution people have been waiting for from this company. Again, I know it's crazy to think you'd be willing to put another SMSL on the bench this soon, but I'd be grateful to know any industry-inside info that you may have, such as whether or not all the key chips are the same. The company literature is a bit vague about whether they are, or aren't.
I don't mind doing the same brand again soon (I've got heaps of Hifiman stuff coming at the moment), but it often comes down to what gear I am sent by manufacturers/distributors/retailers. I'll see about getting the AO300 in. And, I agree that things get confusing with all the similar model numbers and subtle feature differences.
Glad I've been able to help with my reviews!
@@PassionforSound I just bought an AO300 so I'll keep you posted.
Great news. Hope you love it!
@@PassionforSound I haven't heard my AO300 yet because the speakers got bogged down in a shipping snafu in the UK and I'm still waiting on them (a month later). But in the meantime, Wiim is out with a $300 all-in-one that (obviously?) includes a streamer and the highly regarded Wiim streaming app. So it's a selfish request, but another A/B comparison between the AO300 and the Wiim would be greatly appreciated. I can return the AO300 unopened if the Wiim is a clear upgrade for what amounts to the same money.
I will be reviewing the WiiM Amp, but not for a little while yet because stock is in high demand and the retailer in working with can't spare a demo unit for me at the moment.
if you don't need a headphone jack or XLR...get the SMSL A300
I think the real comparison would be with A/B 100W amps :)
If I had one here, I could have done that, but I don't.
Try the Topping LA90
I certainly will if the opportunity arises.
For few months I’ve been running a pair of ELAC Unifi 2.0 with the AO200MK2 and I’m absolutely pleased, wouldn’t change it unless I may go to the high end tier.
WiiM Pro - Ifi Zen One Signature - SMSL AO200MK2 - ELAC Unifi 2.0 UB52 / Yamaha NS SW50 subwoofer
I'm so glad you're enjoying your setup. Thanks for sharing!
Does the SMSL A200 MK have a pre amp or do I need to run a separate preamp for my SL1200 MKII
@@bearded_wolverine3503no need for external pre, it’s an integrated amp, means that it has volume control (therefore internal preamp). My DAC is directly connected through a fixed output.
@@bearded_wolverine3503 it’s an integrated amplifier, means it has a built in pre, absolutely no need for external one. I’m currently looking for another amp to run a different pair of speakers and most likely will buy the same again, it’s that good.
@elialguillen6634 nice I can get the mkii delivered tomorrow with a $30 off coupon too. The only thing I don't see is a grounding post for the turntable. So not sure where I would ground my 1200. I'll be running the amp with a pair of klipsch rp600m and klipsch r120sw sub
I did not like thr ao200 mkii. Sounded tinny regardless of eq.
Sorry to hear that. I haven't tried that one, but neither SMSL model here had that issue IMO.
I happen to have both the SMSL DO300 and the AO200 mkII.
Because they look very good, stacked on top of each other, I like simplicity. But also because of the positive reviews I found.
Now, to explain, in a sense it's a step down for me, compared to the system I had 25 years ago. But I have moved to another country, smaller house, different climate. Couldn't keep the Thiel CS2.3 anymore!
But I did keep the Marantz SR14 and the DV8300. For CDs.
First I got the SMSL DAC because, living in 2023, I have to use Bluetooth (not just for music) and the 15 gb mp3 files of music I have on a notebook.
With the SR14 was the idea. But that beast gave up after a month (something in the power protection circuit I believe) so I quickly purchased the SMSL amp, which had positive reviews too.
So now I'm playing CDs with the DV8300, and I can choose between the internal, 20 year old, DAC (CS4392 Cirrus Logic) and the new, a ESS Sabre DAC.
Well, the new DAC is clearly better, more transparent, without becoming harsh. Not at all.
Bass is good, but like 15 years ago, you find out good or excellent recordings, and not so good recordings.
I use the balanced connection between the two SMSL units.
I hope to get the SR14 repaired soon, and then I can compare two amps! The tank and that small class D one, the old and the new. The Marantz will probably sound a bit warmer.
Now, for loudspeakers. I still have my also 20 years old Sony SS LA300ED, on stands.
Seems to work pretty good!
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
@@PassionforSound my favorite 'test' CDs: Oliver Nelson, The blues and the abstract truth. Mark Murphy, Sings the Nat King Cole Songbook. Jennifer Warnes, Famous Blue Raincoat. All superior recordings.
Thank yoy
If you really want to know what these Class-D chip-amps can do, cut them loose on a pair of workhorse speakers like the Heresy or L-100 ... you won't be disappointed.
no one ever does smsl vs Fosi speaker amps
I've got some Fosi inbound. Stay tuned... 🙂
It was silly to hear reference being made to a $5,000 unit rather than a $500 AB integrated amp, ruined the presentation.
I can only work with what I have here.
These amps are dangerously approaching $300. Why are they always reviewed in complete isolation to tried & true entry-level A/B amplifiers? For crying out loud, just buy a refurbished Cambridge Audio amp for $300.
I did. It didn't last 15 minutes. Also, not sure if I liked the sound, but I didn't get a chance to live with it. Still have the aiyima a08 pro.
I can only compare products with what I have on hand. I would love to do a D vs A/AB comparison and hope to in the future. Having only recently added speakers and amps to the products I review, my library of comparison devices isn't established like it is for DACs, headphone amps, etc.
A300 is better sonically than the Ao200
In what areas do you find it improved?
Didn't you say this channel was dedicated to headphone audio?
No he’s perhaps 99% focused on headphones and iems but recently he started reviewing 2 channel speakers in a desktop or nearfield chain. Harbeth p3esr to be specific.
I used to be 100% headphones, but that's gradually shifting to maybe 20-30% speakers and amps too.
They're called Class D, not D Class! DUH! Do you call other stereo amps A Class and AB Class? No, they're called Class A and Class AB. Jeez!
I'm sorry if my turn of phrase confused you
Class D 😂.
Class E 🤣
@@sjqideez6626 class whatever with a switching power amplifier implied is commonly referred as class S where S stand for💩
Ahem, pardon me......................
Who told you the rule-of-thumb that 85Wpc is pretty much able to drive any speaker?
That's ridiculous. The noobs hear that nonsense & start regurgitating it as gospel.
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
There is a difference between being ABLE to drive a speaker and driving it brilliantly.
EDIT: And Lachlan said as much, if you had listened carefully.
For inefficient speakers the watts a far less important you want amps that stable down to 4 ohms or even 2 ohms as well as high current. Think of a sports car with high horsepower trying to tow a boat trailer. Now then compare a diesel truck with low hp but gobs or torque no pulling the same boat.
Yep. There aren't too many speakers on the planet that need much more than what these can deliver in terms of power quantity. Quality and stability are different discussions, but anyone working with truly difficult and picky speakers probably isn't (or shouldn't be) looking at $250 D-Class amps.
@@TheVeganVicar
So the "85 watt rule" means exactly what? Why say these words? What's the reason to be associating 85 watts with a "driving" force minimum?
@@PassionforSound
Did you just pick 85 watts out of a hat?