How I Pay My Employees $30/hr to Mow Lawns
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
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What an amazing system. As someone who works hard and gets done early, I appreciate this. The only reward I get is more work or getting sent home early. I often find myself just sitting around milking the clock to ensure I get my hours to provide for my family.
Yes I have same issue at work
You have no idea how many people you are helping by this one video alone, excellent content Mike as usual, keep it up.
you are a blessing my brother.
Yah I was employed by a company for 10 years doing this, and would never go back! Started my own business and looking forward to implementing this as I hire!
Nothing would make me more discouraged years ago when I would work my a** off on a job and finish up with hours left in the work day, only to be sent home because we finished early and only get paid for the 4 or 5 hours worked on site. And then I was told I was getting a ‘significant raise that I’d be very happy with’ - opened next paycheck and it was $.50 more an hour. Took everything I had not to quit on the spot!
unfortunately that was an evil test, to see how little they could get away with. I was a victim of this too. 13¢ was my raise lol, what it took for me was to go into the office and basically say I work very hard for YOU GUYS I don't make enough to pay MY OWN BILLS. , boom 1.50 raise on the spot with another in 3 months, you gotta be ready to quit on the spot though. I was so serious and mad they could see it in my eyes probably
We started our own business. . Worked for a company 5 years for little pay. Never asked for a raise. Running a business changes things and your mentality takes a twist on how you think from day 1...
I wish they could implement this at my job I work very hard I put in a lot of effort to learn new things and I accomplished twice as much as most of my peers so it's very frustrating when I get paid the exact same paycheck as people who accomplish half of what I do
Start you business
Mike, seems that this P4P system's crux is good estimates. Bad estimate could make or break a project... how has that process been for the estimators, navigating how long something takes, accounting for down time, padding hours as a buffer, budgeting hours while asking the question how long might this project take a crew... love to hear successes and failures and how the guys move forward.. love it
Yes, the guys in the field get VERY good at figuring out BH and can do small estimates on their own. We shoot for 4 out of 5 jobs to be completed AHEAD of BH. We always pad estimates in the favor of the crew when we are booked out a long way... when we are tighter on work, we tighten up BH if needed
Tried this back in the days when slinging Pepsi! It works! Many companies do this specially trucking companies.
Great video bro . Ive never researched performance pay and it’s an honor to share your knowledge out there .
We started doing something similar last year. I mean I can’t count how many times in the past 20 years I’ve heard “ I don’t care, I get paid by the hour “
Whenever you mention the word waste, I always correlate It to Lean Manufacturing. Awesome approach!
I pay my workers once a week for days they worked. , usually I pay on a Wednesday evening or Thursday morning, I got motley crew , BUT THEY ARE THE BEST AT WHAT WE DO.
Big fan of your stuff man, I worked lawn care for two years and couldn’t stand how the business was run by me. Wish more companies had your viewpoint
As one of the hardest working people at my day job I really wish this was applied. People sitting around screwing around and playing on their phones only making like $1 less a hr then me but that’s just cause I have a higher paying position. Half tempted to step down cause it honestly isn’t worth it.
Plus my own business I make more in a week then I do in a month there.
what are you waiting on? if your business makes 4x as much per month as your "job", fire your boss and do your own thing! No one ever became financially successful working for someone else.
@@fakiirification Insurance could be a big factor, assuming his job provides that,
Yeah, thank you for this video I was thinking about hiring someone for my team. This break down was very good, for me I do some game leveling jobs where I work and move faster than anyone else, what takes others 2-3 weeks takes me about 6 days and I make basically way more money than them, it's still little but way more..
Thank you for sharing this video because im just starting a brush hogging business and this system p4p will save me the hassle and money.
This is such a good system to get quality workers
Much respect for taking care of your people.
This is pretty much how working in a shop is. As a mechanic..or body shop. Or detailer. Paid by the job. Nothing different.. nothing new. Maybe it's new for office workers or something. But I agree. I made a lot of money this way. But I have to be ambitious and motivated. It was nice cuz our paychecks reflected who were the hardest workers.
That's exactly what I thought of when I saw this. Getting something replaced has an x amount of time, even if it doesn't take that long, you still paid for those labor hours.
I don’t like the idea of giving my crew a percent of my job. What I do is pay them well hourly. In the slow season I still guarantee 40 hours. When I get a new good employee I pay them just like the once that have been with me a while.
The only problem I see is that in the negative instance you mentioned weather or things the cost estimator didn't see... which means the employees would be taking a hit because of things they couldn't control. How to separate that from poor performance is an interesting question.
Great video Mike! One aspect you forgot to go over on this presentation was how much of the paid amount is P4P dollars, meaning what's up for grabs IF they mess up.
They get $18/hr minimum
Fred is correct. So the video pays 853 (80*32) *33%. Base pay is off of clocked time but 18*32=576. So if they finish exactly at 32 hours. 576 is Base Pay and performance dollars are 277 for a total of 853.
Definitely wish there were more people thought like you, especially for a young man like yourself to see that problem and then come up with a system that works for everyone.. I'm so used to these greedy companies to treat people like they're expendable..
I've had something similar in my last job... The only thing to add is travel compensation for any job over 30 - 40 minutes... That is sometimes make or break with this plan
The most critical component of this system is fair and accurate labor estimations.
What happens when the boss consistently places unreasonable production demands into the estimates?
He would lose his crew… once trust is lost the whole system is garbage. This is very important. We shoot for 4 out of 5 jobs to be at or beating budgeted hours
This is the only thing I think about when starting my own business tbh but also finding people to do the work right is hard because they still want to do things their own way that's not 100% on 100% good properties 🤔
I’ve always tried to educate people on this. I wish more industries switched to the PFP method.
Most companies idea of pfp is screw everyone but one guy and say look at what you "could" get.
@@johnnyparsnips7641 yup it's not a fit for everybody but it's a lesser of two evils situation. On one hand you got young ambitious men and women who are not being paid enough, on the other you have those physically unable to keep up with demand in a commission setting.
Driving a semi I used to get paid % and the people that use to waste so much time that got paid hour. Sometimes it helped and they know I got paid % they would let me go first some times because they didn't mind sitting there they were getting paid.
Awesome Mike I was wondering how to motivate workers next year. This is great!!
You should look into a concrete division, I’ve done averaged 22K/monthly this summer and that’s not including snow removal
All my guys are getting 250-300$+ a day
I wish everyone that owned a business thought this way and did what you do. Ive always thought this way its gets old when lazy slacking employees are making more when im doing 3x the work. Thats why people dont even think about staying somewhere for years.
I'm planning to grow my business next year. This is genius. I wasn't.
Sure, if I need to pay by the hour or Yard definitely doing the yard
Coming back to this video months later, and applying it in the field, i must say this is highly sophisticated.
This man is a hero that is all I got to say
I love what your saying my guy. This is very forward thinking - amazing.
Dude you are a genius. I have taken soooo many classes in business and watched every video I could on snow shoveling and I never heard of this
It's a new concept for the home service industry but if you're a mechanic or anyone in the auto industry detailer ect this has been around for years
There is little reasons why someone that can get something done in 4 hrs that normally takes others 8 hrs. Shouldn't get paid for the whole 8.
99% agree. Been in the business 20 years. Bugged me when I was younger that If I busted my ass to get done faster(for my self and for the company) Id get paid less in most cases. So why would I run with a whip or trim bushes faster to make less money lol. Took some time but once I got older I started to make sure that I pushed for a for "commission" based pay in a sense even if it was paid as per hour.... Landscaping jobs ALWAYS for me now on are a % because a lot of the times I'm doing 30-60% of the work (usually a small crew of 2-3) so it isn't right to make 150 for the day if the job made $1500(after cost) only issue with pvp is the disagreeing how long a job should take compared to the hiccups that happen or arise during some jobs witch change the length... meaning throwing off profit margins to a degree. For landscaping It will 100% work just not sure on the mowing aspect but it can be done. I 100% love the ideal
I like the idea of the system but have a question. When you put a new guy or two on one of your crews, wouldn't their earnings go down due to the reduction and productivity thanks to the new guys? How would you compensate for that? We have all trained that one person that slows down the entire process, so I'm just curious how to account for it
We pay a training bonus to the employee that does the training. So they split the % evenly but then the one doing the training get an additional $3 per hour while they are in training.
That’s pretty dang good.
A lot of businesses would do better and have a lot better performance by employees and as a company in a whole
sounds great, actually. just make sure your not running afoul of any wage and hour laws, every state has their own, and dont necessarily follow the federal code if their rules are considered stronger protection for the worker than federal.
100%. Biggest items to watch are to make sure that you base pay is above minimum wage (ours is 18/hour) and to calculate OT correctly.
100%That how you find leaders
I didn’t know it was only a percentage of the labour revenue (not the total revenue) thank you so much. That makes much more sense now
WOW!!! Pay workers for how hard they work! WHAT A CONCEPT!! Wish wage slavery died before I entered in. I JUST got into a company like this. THANK THE LORD FOR MEN LIKE YOU WHO WILL CRUSH THIS CRAPPY SYSTEM!!!! God luck in your business! Kill the competition!
System sounds great my only problem was the guy dumping the trash can at 7:52 he seems like he has no idea what he's doing. I never seen anyone in my life pick up a pile with two rakes.
Issue 1. If job estimator is off on his estimated hours too many times, the employee will quickly learn that the dangling carrot will never be achieved. Solution is to have a very experienced estimator. If boss tells you that if you get this done in 24 hours, you will make 500$, you will be excited to get it done as quick as possible. If the job takes 3 days and you still make 500$ the worker will tell themselves "Ok, well a few things went wrong and hopefully things go well in future jobs so I can get the max payou"t. If they continuously have longer longer hours into jobs, that dangling carrot of getting done earlier for max pay really becomes misleading and the employee moral will drop.
issue 2. I'm not sure this method is anything special, it seems like you are paying the employee per job vs per hour.
Issue 3. I believe this is the best thing you can do for your business. Many variables to determine if its best for the employee.
The estimators pay should be tied to accuracy. We shoot for 4 out of 5 jobs that beat budgeted hours
Wait you’re telling me people haven’t heard of Piece work lol that’s how you get paid in construction
Exactly what we been looking for!
The beauty of this model is the low turnover. Where are your employees going to find a better wage? It dramatically reduces your hiring expenses.
Yes Piecemeal work has been pushed for a while. Getting the employee to understand it is part of the hard part
Mike, how do you feel about electric equipment? With enough batteries, they aren't a problem. Great for the environment and a good business angle coming into the climate change world.
As a landscaper for years im just curious maybe you can answer for me ?
What about over time ? Because I remember over time made my paycheck almost double what they would be without time and a half
what about people who want consistency in their paychecks
How do sick time and paid leave work do they get paid the 19 minimum or the amount for the average week based on last years pay
Base + OT is always calculated VS P4P.
This makes it the goal of the employee AND the owner to not go into OT and be more efficient and be better at managing labor inputs.
We do Paid Time Off and it is based on base pay since that is the “hourly rate” on their paycheck plus bonuses (performance dollars). There are other bonus opportunities available to the employees that I didn’t mention on this video.
More details at P4Psoftware.com/training
When I worked at Costco as a morning merch stocker the men always had the heavier merch to stock like bottled water, dog food bags & sugar bags. While the women had the easier stuff like clothing, books & outside pharmacy. We all started out at the same pay but overall the more hours/time with the company the more you'd make.
You hear about sexism everyday but never when men are getting the short end of the stick. Even tho that's where almost all the real impactful sexism is.
Lol what does that have to do with anything??
@@user-nj1zu2nf1x everything
@@user-nj1zu2nf1x , it means we all get paid the same. While the men are busting their butts the ladies take their time & chit chat.
Laziness by these companies translate to laziness by employees the world needs this change for pfp
Bro this guys just did one insurance adjuster type magic here. I don't even understand it but its genius.
I cleared a quarter acre or grass at least 5 feet tall with a scythe in one day and regularly maintain with only the scythe
Sounds like flat rate pay but for landscaping
Wow 30 dollars an hour for landscaping? You're a great boss, I was a foreman operator for a shitbag and he paid me 18 an hour despite practically running all the crews.
The thing you neglect to ever say in your book or videos is are you paying your estimator P4P as well or a set salary based on net income or hourly? Curious minds would like to know.
Hourly wage plus larger profit sharing… good chunk for profit sharing.
That being said we also have a per estimate $$ we give to guys in the field that do estimates while on P4P since they are all trained to do them
@@MikeAndes I for some reason did not get the notification you responded. I really appreciate the honest feedback as always.
Also how do you compensate someone who hypothetically outperform somebody else has more skills. I know a lot of tricks and ways to get things done faster more efficiently but if I'm working with somebody else we get paid the same? Who's responsible when something goes wrong? Both guys? As an employee you're incentivizing speed and quality just as long as they don't get a call back just good enough. Sure that works for some businesses but not mine
Both guys are responsible unless they are training (then the trainer is responsible). They get extra compensation for very happy customers and going above and beyond (by giving bonuses for 5 star surveys and customers that accept more work).
I think teams should be somehow fixed. So if you know those tricks teach them to your team mates and they will be as productive as you. I think teams will kick lazy peoples a$$. They will force him to keep the rithm. He has to chose if he will do it or leave. I plan o implementing p4p, but it is first time I found it on youtube.
This video is inspiring me to apply at Augusta
You should do it!
That person that has been working 15 years was that young hustler that made your business more money at what point guy
I started working at a golf course doing maintenance as am fng no experience at all at 10 an hour. In one year I went to 20 an hour while others were still hanging around 12. Literally all it took 2as staying busy compared to staying on your phone or taking numerous breaks constantly
So freaking smart idea.
I like the concept but how do you prevent employees from walking off the site when the estimator estimates lower required hours?
That would lead to being released from the team… and losing the chance to make P4P on future jobs
You can also remind them of the 20 job they got done in 15 the week prior. But the estimators pay is also tied to the accuracy of estimates/profitability of the jobs. Everyone is on the same team working towards the same goal.
I personally can do that work alone in 10-12 hours. Also, if you estimate the job to take 32 hours and finish in 24 hours then you overestimated and overcharge the customer.
Yeah we don't own a brush cutter so we don't usually take on clean ups of this size so we budgeted accordingly. But if the job takes 40, we don't ask for more so on the flip side if the job takes 24, we don't give money back.
The landscape company i work for takes care of us we have plenty room to grow have we're part owners of it we have our 401k set up they save a percentage for us. We work 4 days and still make the same hours of people working 5 days. I'm not saying how much i make. But the starting rage is 17.50 come on what company starts out with that iv worked for a few companies before this one and to make that much you have to be on celery. My celery is freaking awesome. Let's go clean scapes. We get two weeks of paid vacation paid holidays. If your in Austin and are looking for a good landscaping to work for go to clean scapes.
I do lawn care in Canada making 20 bucks a hour
How do you deal with people getting older? The will definitely become slower, but a person that served you maybe 20 or 30 years of his life does not deserve a decrease in pay, I think, or at least deserves something for his loyalty.
Our goal is to promote them within 5 years if they are loyal. And ideally they become an estimator, GM, or own their own franchise location
The problem is that if you have a crew of 5 guys at different skill levels how do you split the money
wow, i could never work for this guy
24 hrs.. divided into 853 also then needs to be again halved because 2 workers. $17.77 per hr
24 man hours. That already assume two works for 12 each ✅👍🏻
Pay by the hour means your employees are going to go slower to make that hour, I have seen it within places I worked the teams will go slower because they aren't getting paid by the job or how they work.
Are you going to be hiring next spring ?
@mike andes could you do this breakdown with the example of route style system. Just a team going form site to site doing basic mowing and trimming?
It's the same concept, each job has a set budgeted hours associated with it so you could have a route of 10 houses that total to 6.84 budgeted hours. 6.84 x 80 = 547.20 in total route sales. 547.2 * 33% is $182.40 paid to the employee. If you run at 80% efficiency (80% of day on the job site, 20% loading, drive time unloading) we expect that to 8.55 clocked hours. In that scenario 182.40/8.55 is 21.33 per hour. But with grass not growing much right now, that route might take 6 hours total. So 182.40/6 = 30.40 per hour. If you just sit in the truck at the gas station and make it take 9 hours. 182.40/9 is 20.26/hour. Either way you get 182.40 as that is 33% of the revenue you brought in.
The reason business owner won't change is because p4p socks. Faster doesn't mean good. You have to thin about workers comp. This is a physical job and sooner or later you will have an injury.
We have had LESS workers comp cases after P4P
Quick question. On that job you used as example. You're paying both team members the same wage? Team leader gets paid the same as the second? I have so many questions lol. Hope to see you in Louisville again Mike.
Yes and yes =) and yes I will be at Equip Expo =)
On larger projects the Project Manager (team lead) is eligible to get more money.... more training is at P4Psoftware.com/training
wish there was a way you did consulting to businesses to help them with p4p. my business is in Las Vegas, home service industry.
I am a truck driver for a company that pays by the hour. My company is looking for a way to give incentives to drivers that do there job well safely an efficiently. Do you think there is a way to do p4p in the trucking industry or something they could to do to give incentives to the good efficient and reliable drivers?
This sounds like an amazing system!
If you were out here in Colorado I would be down for a job love that system and it would definitely make me want to work faster and harder for that money.
We have a couple locations in Colorado!
Mike, we always do time and materials for garden maintenance clients because everyone wants different amounts of time/level of maintenance. Do you do all quoted jobs when you go to do cleanups or regular cleanups?
Every job has a budgeted hours associated with it. Regarding different levels of service, that goes back to setting expectations when they meet with the estimator and then assigning budget hours and job notes accordingly based on the clients requests
I'm telling you having your employees putting debris into buckets with rakes, pretty painful to watch. Use tarps rake debris onto tarps.
So commission basically.
You have a good point there, but saying it’s lazy to pay by the hour is a little hasty, there absolutely nothing wrong with hourly pay, just so a bonus per day on quality per person,( on time, good attitude, no standing around and quality working, ) but be willing to take it away if those things aren’t there too , and if you do a profit share per hour on all the hours per worker, and you pay that at the end of the year, and you can pay a couple dollars less per normal working hour and it will give employees the willingness to think hey there money at the end of the year if I grind. And a question I have, are you doing W2 or 1099??
I agree. Except basing someone’s bonus on something arbitrary/subjective such as “attitude or not standing” around can be very difficult to quantify and leads to grey standards and disgruntled team members.
We do W-2 only ✅👍🏻
So does everyone make the same amount of money on the crew? How to you compensate the better workers over the not as great workers
Their performance determines their pay so the high performers make more 💰
Love it Mike
I have a question...I'm in a super tight labor market...and it seems to me paying piece work or going a hybrid of hourly and percentage like P4P is actually a disincentive to the point where it would make it a lot harder to hire...as if I were an employee...why would I work for me for a possible $30 when I could work for another company guaranteeing 30 an hour? As the people who are drawn to piece work are high performers...but the problem is there are only so many of those people around....
mike what type of coffee or pre work out to u take WOW u are ENERGIZED Im tired and out of breath just trying to follow ya. YOU ARE WOUND TIGHT MY GUY
Don’t like coffee. Pre work out has too much artificial stuff and is mostly marketing
Good video but I don’t agree it’s entry level. I’ve worked in many industries varying from very technical, management, ownership, to mowing lawns and cleaning, there is a technique/skill set required for every task
AGREED 100%
Not trying to start problems. I really like the idea, but is the math wrong?
Job cost: 2,560 (80x32)
Labor 33% or 844.80
Divide by 24 hours: 35.20
BUT then dont you have to divide that by the 2 employees?? Then it's only $17.10 per hour.
And if they took the full 32 hours only 13.20 per hour.
Just trying to check the numbers. Let me know if i went wrong somewhere
He goes off of a true 1/3. So 2,560 *33.33% equals the 853. But then you don't divide it by 2. It's not 80 /hour for a crew of 2 people, it's 80 per 1 man hour, so 32 budgeted hours is meant to be 2 guys for 2 days. 8 hours per day.
I wonder if this would work for mechanic shop I own
This totally depends if you're quoting your jobs correctly.
You are correct. We are big on promoting from within so odds are that the estimator had been working in the field the season previously so then has the respect and trust of the crew because they know how it feels to be in the field. But estimator's pay is tied to accuracy/profit sharing and shoot for 4 out of 5 jobs to be at or under budgeted hours.
@@p4psoftware136 It would just suck to get 33% of the labor split among the workers. And the job took hours longer with no fault of your own. I hate quoting yard work. I'll give firm numbers on decks and fences though. I do like the business model though.
@@ksplinter007 I definitely hear you on that one. That is why we like to promote from within so that the estimator knows that feeling of being on the receiving end of a bad quote and will be mindful of it now that he is the estimator. Hopefully that employee was part of a job recently where they got the 16 hour job done in 12 to help balance it out a bit.
@@p4psoftware136 I'm currently building a project bidding app, since nothing else on the Market did what I wanted it to do.
You seem very responsive which is cool. I'll reach out when I go live and see what you think and maybe get some pointers on how you created your software.
Spot on this is the way smart
Like you said, "in the past I could never afford to pay any of that".
If they decided to pay all hard working laborers by P2P, most buisness would take a loss.
No. The reason we were able to increase pay is because of P4P and the massive reduction in waste
I never understood the 15 smoke brakes, then the 2 15min brakes, then bitch about my life is horrible, but why I not getting paid that much 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
do you have any videos about p4p with lawn care maintenance
Unfortunately, in my line of work, I have to pay my contractors by the hour because I bill our clients by the hour.
Then you just adjust "Business hours" to be more and more unreasonable over time then workers are getting taken advantage of. You are also putting "Risk" back on to employees, which doesn't even sound legal not to mention unethical. This is a loss for workers.
Employees would leave if the BH were constantly adjusted down. The goal of P4P is to RETAIN employees via higher wages... in this labor market reducing BH and making employees hit Base Pay would leave an owner without the ability to attract talent.
well i would think it is from out the franchises that pay you and using your website with the big monthly costs, ie your passive income is providing this, now dont get me wrong this is great but its not simple.
He has talked publicly about the distributions he took from this location last year. But He uses this system so that by looking at the P4P dashboard for 2 minutes, he knows exactly how the business is performing. An efficient way to monitor the locations he owns individually. But the franchise is just getting to profitability this year but isn't enough to be taking a distribution from.
Admittedly, I have not watched the training videos over on the website, so if the answer is over there, just tell me that.
How do you handle scheduling in this system? This seems like a really good system as long as there is a constant supply of projects of any duration. In this example, the 2 guys got a job done in 24 total hours that was budgeted for 32. That means they finished it in a day and a half and it was expected to take 2 full days. Wouldn't they still have been scheduled for 2 days on that project? Is there another project they can hop on for the 2nd half of day 2 to continue earning money? If not, sure they made a lot more per hour to complete the job faster, but now they have nothing to do for 4 hours each so they make no money during that time. They'd still end up making the same amount whether they took the full time or not. Now, a half day free definitely allows for something to easily be scheduled as a filler, but what if they did it in 28 hours or 30 hours? That wouldn't leave a whole lot of time to fill.
Again, if you have already covered this in another video, you can just point me in the right direction!
The answer is there as well but your thinking is correct and sometimes yes they are just done and go home early. But in Bellingham with a crew of 12, usually something pops up such as
1. Did another crew fall behind on their day and they need help the final hour or two to wrap up.
2. Do you have a small 2 hour trimming job that you could pull forward on the schedule and throw on it
3. Misc. Shop tasks...Manger need fertilizer picked up from the store, mow/pull weeds at shop, Sharpen blades etc...First one done for the day is offered a chance to earn an extra $20 for the day
And sometimes, employees don't always want the extra task. Just let me get my stuff done and go home early.
I should also add...if you have mowing employees consistently finishing early. Now it the owner/estiamtor's job to go sell more. Because by increasing efficiency you essentially added capacity so now you can go bring in more revenue without additional employees/trucks.
Two full days is 32 hours?.... that's 16 hours a day!.... surely you meant 3 or maybe even 4 days?
@@christophermccord3316 2 man crew. 8 hours each is 16hrs/day.
I think while an interesting concept, I think it unfairly shifts risk of labor and estimating from management/owners to the individual. I don't see this working outside of gig economy models or small businesses.
I see where you are coming from but to fair, in exchange for taking on the risk, there can also be a much larger reward for them. If you want them to think about efficiency like an owner than you need to give them info and pay them like an owner. But it's more common than you think at first glance (truck drivers paid by the mile, several mechanic shops pay by the job, most sales jobs have a commission component) and will likely only increase in popularity as people look for ways to manage labor in a tight labor market.