Live From The Table - David Rothkopf on Israel's Threats and War Crimes.
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- Foreign policy expert David Rothkopf discusses the non-existential threats to Israel and (his views) the war crimes Israel is committing in response. Needless to say, a debate ensues.
Развлечения
Noam didn't even know about Netanyahu's involvement in Rabin's assassination, yet here I am, an Irish mother of two, with no dog in the race ethnically or religiously, who, it would seem, is far more informed on this situation than he is! The more I watch this channel, the more I'm shocked at actually how little he knows.
Agreed. These people are incompetent and evidently biased.
What proof do you have that Netanyahu was involved in Rabin's assassination?
New evidence point at the left being involveded. [SHIMON PERES] but not Netanyahu
Bless the Irish.
The host of this show is living in a delusional bubble that is ready to burst at any moment. The agony on his face is palpable whenever the guest points out a shameful part of Israel's history. Still, I commend him for listening to opposing views on the topic.
Seems to be a reasonable consensus. Kudos for the forum, yet Noam seems like he’s holding on for dear life and slowly, privately might see that Zionism is a failed ideology that has lead to unnecessary violence and suffering.
So true! It’s as if he’s in need of the toilet; desperately!!
Yup. He believes all this is a necessary evil for Israel to expand. I have come to the conclusion that no undeniable proof will change his mind. He is simply a dedicated liar for Israel. By his behavior, I know for a fact he knows the truth but doesn't want to accept it. I met only a few people like him that eventually gave up and admitted to the truth but that seems rare.
he's not listening.
@@bobbyd5167so true
The host just wants to hear his own biased opinions and is too emotionally invested to have a constructive conversation.
Okay let's have a constructive conversation.
What was he wrong about?
@@robertcampomizzi7988 hamas supporters never really do constructive conversation.
The last monologue by the host was hard to listen to. Why not extend the sympathy of extreme reaction to violation and suffering being inflicted upon for once to a Palestinian? For it is not the Israelis that are being violently occupied, living under military dictatorship, suffering the most casualties but the Palestinians; all the while being told "the reason why you dont get your freedom is because you're just too violent, too unruly, too savage. You're the reason why we reluctantly have to claim your land, cause you want all of ours. Palestinians just don't want peace.."
That's mostly true though. Israel stopped directly occupying Gaza and all they get is more terrorism. Now people want them to leave the West Bank too. If they did leave, they would be handing Hamas another, much larger base from which to attack Israel.
If Palestinians ever renounced Jihad, accepted Israel's right to exist, there would be no military occupation in the West Bank. They would have a state there.
Unfortunately, Palestinians want all of it and will likely wind up with none of it as a result
Neither of you can be bothered to avail yourselves of the facts. Mark Regev recently revealed the truth of what the Palestinians were offered by Rabin (well documented at the time)it was less than a state. No control over their aquifer, etc, etc, etc. If you shout 'Rejectionism' you at least have to have some notion of what's been rejected!
Mark Regev? That avowed war criminal
arafat walked away from the deal without giving counter proposal. at least he should have done that before unleashing the 2nd intifada.
Noam, are you going to have Finklestein back on?? We need you to revisit your statement from 3 months ago that the state of Israel would never starve Palestinians.
he never said that. it was the guest who talked about other ways of eradicating hamas.
@@mayonaden who said that?
@@mayonaden its a long video, give me the time stamp.
@@mayonaden wheres that video?
Yes, you right, he did, I just re-watched it yesterday.
But I question Noam's integrity to honour that statement, I hope he does.
Great pick up.
Ignore the other gaslighters.
It's clear that one person in this is discussion is emotionally invested in one side of the debate, and facts will not pucture that bubble. Nevertheless, a good discussion. I thank the host for this series.
I don’t know. I get the sense that he’s wrestling with the issues and finding it all a bit overwhelming. Completely understandable. I agreed so much more with David but Kudos to Noam for wrestling with the ideas rather than discounting them like so many others seem to.
it's not only because he's emotionally invested, it's also because he's trying to defend the indefensible.
I made my first comment before I heard the whole interview because I was angry about Noam's strident ignorance, this was wrong so I apologise for my angry tone. David Rothkopf's knowledge, balance and patience made me much happier about the interview and I would thank Noam for hosting David in spite of Noam's strident prejudice.
David is wrong when says Hamas has not a Social System. In fact the reason why they have immens popularity is because of it. Imagine you are an 18 year old Palestinian Boy today and you are born in Gaza. You have seen nothing but occupation, periods of invasion, limitations on water, freedom of movement, food in security and absolute despair. And right next to you is a Festival of peace and love occuring, Kibbutz ( heavily fortified villages) on your land, using your water, with all of the luxurities that you can only imagine. What do you have to lose? It's better to live on day as a hero, that the rest of your life a slave with nothing. Context is very very important.
I know. They just say shit.
You're right
Noam is a fidgety war crime apologist.
Yup. He believes all this is a necessary evil for Israel to expand. I have come to the conclusion that no undeniable proof will change his mind. He is simply a dedicated liar for Israel. By his behavior, I know for a fact he knows the truth but doesn't want to accept it. I met only a few people like him that eventually gave up and admitted to the truth but that seems rare.
What a fantastic guest! Really tries to understand both sides and the broader picture. Speaks so much sense.
Respect to the guest.
Noam Noam Noam. I admire your effort to spark dialogue, but buddy, these questions? Where is your mind at? The thing that’s most glaring to me is that in the last three months you’ve had the honour and privilege of directly speaking to the best people in the business, but as far as I can tell you haven’t budged one jot.
When you give a fair hearing to other points of view, it doesn't follow that there is something wrong with you if you still don't agree with the other views. Just because they are different points of view, doesn't make them correct, or moral. I admire Noam for having what is in my view a very moral view of the situation. I agree with Noam that if there is a way to bring peace, and have security for Israel, without killing so many Palestinian civilians, let's hear convincing arguments for it. It is far easier to say it can be done when you don't back that up with convincing arguments as how to accomplish this. By the way, I was born and live in the US, and I am not Jewish. I believe Jews deserved to have a state of their own in their ancestral homeland. I believed the Palestinians deserved their own state as well. The Palestinians refused every deal presented to them because they didn't want a two state solution. They wanted it all to be a Palestinian state. No, Jewish state. Unless and until the Palestinians change their minds, and accept that they cannot have it all, there will be no peace. Israelis cannot be blamed for Palestinians not wanting to have a two state solution.
@@pearlharper1379 The first half of your comment is perfectly reasonable. But when you get into this “Palestinians refuse every offer” nonsense, you start to lose people. That statement has zero credibility. It’s Hilary Clinton talk; it’s Douglas Murray talk. Noam has made a good faith effort to cover the crisis. But on this specific issue of statehood and intent, he needs to be reviewed. As do you!
Sweetcell8767 Sweetcell8767 Sweetcell8767. How many people have Aaron Mate, or Norm Funklestein, or Krystals Balls, or Amanda Seales, or Shaun King, or whoever on the Palestinian side has had a discussion with the opposition and budged? (Of those who were even willing to entertain a discussion)
@@voccsaycee30 One, I don’t see it as “the Palestinian side”. You make that mistake; so does Noam, as do most people who speak on the topic. As to your other point, how is it an argument to point to your opponents weaknesses, whether it’s Finkelstein, or Mate, whatever , and assert that because they share the same flaws as your pal Noam, it somehow negates the criticism? If Finkelstein is particularly fixated on an issue to his detriment, and yes he is from time to time, then he should be called out for it! I’ve watched Noam’s debates, I think he’s been pretty solid, he’s definitely in the upper tier in terms of objectivity and encouraging as wide a range of views as possible. Do be honest, this probably hurts the popularity of his channel. I see his numbers are down, quite dramatically. If he squeezed out a little more Ben Shapiro style bigotry, or Bet David lunacy and drab incoherence, you can bet his numbers would be way up. The fact that he tries to keep within the bounds of sane discussion shows that he’s a serious person. That aside, I stick by my main point; on substantive issues, he comes across as dogmatic.
@@sweetcell8767You are correct, it is vague or unclear to label it the "Palestinian side." I should have said, "the anti-Israel side" or the "pro-Hamas side" or the "only criticize Israel side" or the "let's tell everyone 'Zionists are evil oppressors'" side. But regardless, when confronted with facts or ideas that don't fit their "Israel is the devil" narrative, these journalists/social media influencers don't budge a jot. They'll hate Israel and ignore Hamas atrocities no matter what evidence or facts they are presented -- as do the vast majority on the anti-Israel side.
Consider searching the recent youtube Bari Weiss Why Are Feminists Silent on Murder, if you care about humanity, or if you care to hear about the crucial details the "Free Palestine" crowd hypocritically wishes to ignore.
the whole of the interviewer's questions and commnets can be a described as a wholescale cope for massive cognitive dissonance that the Israeli case in amy form is morally untenable.
Man.... You've had so many diverse and honest opinions and you are still shackled to your bias. If you reflected a little more on your own opinions I think they would change as your moral disposition and willingness to talk and listen sharply contrasts with the reality of Israel has become.
I really thought David Rothkopf had the upper hand in the discussion. His cool, calm and knowledgeable responses and explanations to Noam's emotional style, scored points for the rational model.
Thank you for bringing on a wide range of guests
Free Palestine! 🇵🇸
I encourage folks watch the 2018 documentary called the Settlers. That usually ends the argument.
Unbelievable ignorance of the lead up to 1948. Read Illan Papee or have him on as a guest. You really should know more than you do….
Peel commission: The Arabs opposed the partition plan and condemned it unanimously.[3] The Arab Higher Committee opposed the idea of a Jewish state[4] and called for an independent state of Palestine, "with protection of all legitimate Jewish and other minority rights and safeguarding of reasonable British interests".[5] They also demanded cessation of all Jewish immigration and land purchase.[4] They argued that the creation of a Jewish state and lack of independent Palestine was a betrayal of the word given by Britain.[2][6]
The Arabs objected to the idea of PARTITION Sounds pretty reasonable to want only one state with he protection of all minority rights.
Noam I am very disappointed in the fact that you didn’t know Benzion’s Boy BiBi called for the assassination of Rabin back in the 90’s or flirted with Right Wingers that did. This is what’s wrong with Liberal Non-religious European/American Jews who are far removed from Israeli politics from their upbringings early on. This was Israeli Likud Party History 101 in Elementary Yeshiva studies at synagogues. We have always supported Moderate Conservative Israelis in the Knesset in Northeast Africa and Netenyahu certainly didn’t start out as a Moderate he came in as Right Wing, rebranded himself to more moderate Likud in the early 2010’s and after his corruption scandal recently went right back home to Right Wing.
Sorry
Israel after decades of war and terrorism from Palestinian radicals and the surrounding Arab nations that want Israel gone, and people wonder why a small minority in Israel have become radical in the last 30 years. Most Israelis want peace. But somehow, bibi and a couple of far-right politicians are to blame for everything.
Regardless, as a factual matter, I didn't know about this: www.haaretz.com/opinion/2016-11-13/ty-article/editorial-netanyahu-cant-wash-his-hands-of-incitement/0000017f-dbcf-d3a5-af7f-fbefa96d0000
Rabin's widow had no doubt about it.
@@comedycellarclips if your getting your reliable info from Harez then your knowledge on truth is slim to none!
Chico Marx once said are you going to believe me or your lying eyes 🤣
The guest destroyed he host.
Dude on the left is immoral.
Thank you, Mr. Rothkopf. You've summed up the ethical case impeccably.
The absolute callous disregard for the people of Gaza, is actually what your little thought experiment shows. " if god just magically moved them..who would mind?" Well, maybye those people that ARE being pushed around Gaza, while being denied the basics of survival, AND having bombs dropped on them.
Do you actually have any shred of humanity for those people? You mention the many rockets sent into Isreal over the years, that have barely killed any Isrealis( not for lack of trying, i do concede that) , but all the sympathy in the world for Isreals plight...not even an afterthought for the innocent Palistinians , caught in the middle of this . Shame .
You brought extremely knowledgeable people on the subject matter yet you haven't changed an inch your opinion, which leads me to believe that you are in fact some sort of fanatic/fundamentalist
Or he grew up believing that Israel was a wonderful and proud safe haven for Jews. Now that there is immense pushback across the world against Israel's astrocities, he's having a hard time accepting that the things he was told by the people around him his whole life were wrong.
Nope. He accepted the views of equally knowledgeable people on the other side, like Benny Morris. Noam is possible one of the few people in media who is more interested in talking to people on the other side than his own side. Kudos to him. That doesn't mean he has to change his views. Nor should he. There are plenty of good arguments for his side. And many people (me included) agree with him. However, I also agree with him that we need to listen to people on the other side and listeners should be exposed to diverse perspective. What is "extremely knowledgable"? And how is that remotely relevant? There are knowledgeable people on both sides of this debate.
@@MegaSparklyRainbow Really? Which Left channel/podcast will interview so many articulate people from the other side? They are living in an anti-Israel bubble which facts cannot penetrate. And many of them are apologists for Islamists and Islamic extremism. Or they are completely ignorant about it like some woke college student schooled in intersectionality or other buzzwords used by SJW's.
@@mitrasinchan He supported the war in Irak and he supports the massacre of civilians, women and children in Gaza. This tiny man was and is consistently on the wrong side which shows his moral compass is askew.
@@CPalanysamy He has never said he supports the massacre of civilians in Gaza. Many people supported the Iraq war, including very intelligent and liberal people like Christopher Hitchens. I disagreed with them, but I won't say they must also be wrong on all the other issues.
Noam is so in love with war
You mean genocider
Oh my. It’s great you bring on varied voices and especially those who disagree with you. I’m sure others have recommended some other “experts” (historians, journalists, philosophers) who might also disagree. I’m thinking Gideon Levy, Ilan Pappe and that other Noam.
Thanks
Good luck!
UTI Possidetis Juris.
“It’s too small for two states.” Edward Said.
They have to figure it out as a single body.
The funny thing is that this is what Palestinians have always wanted. It's just easier to see their calls for "from the river to the sea" as genocidal if the only option you envision is a Jewish apartheid state. Of course Palestinians want the end of Jewish supremacy and apartheid, that's a very rational desire. It doesn't mean that Jews have to leave, it just means that they are no longer able to oppress non-Jews. The fact that Israel is so unwilling to imagine such a thing as equal rights for all in occupied Palestine is really what needs to be interrogated.
The quality of the interviewers commentary is terrible. Absolutely inferior.
What's the point of having knowledgeable guests about the topic if you never listen?
Your train of thoughts is one of the most blatant examples of cognitive dissonance, a textbook case of denial and borders on fanatism.
Name of the channel checks out.
The guest needs to be running a country. His cool, collective, intelligent & intellectual view, would make the world a better place.
The great thing about this interview is you have a talking point Zionist, completely educated by a balanced, intelligent and impartial expert, who rebuts every dumb Zionist talking point we have heard for the last 6-7 months.
Noam how have you not done any soul searching on this issue? Israel continues to slaughter hundreds each day and you’re somehow still carrying water for them.
I tried to listen....the interviewer never stops being full of shit.
Seriously? It was all the " concessions " that led to Oct 7?
Not the subjugation, and brutalization of the seige and blockade, with periodic massacres?
Seriously my guy, you are losing the plot here.
The wY Israel cut off the water , electricity and fuel for gazans the same way they are killing gazans it was never about hamas ‘ Israel is a real sin from decades
Lol Noam "I'm not religious at all" yet you have no problem using the Bible as justification. Good one Noam.
I used the Bible? Timecode please...
@@comedycellarclips Noam, you have had on some of the most knowledge people on, and you don't listen to them or learn. Why should I try and educate you on when you have said contradictory statements? You won't listen to me.
@@comedycellarclips Listen to your audience. You are in a mass-formation psychosis. Your approach to the whole Israel-Palestine issue since October 7th is like watching someone go through a mental health episode.
The host is such a cowardly handwringer lmao
David Rothkopf is very wise: "If you go in indiscrimately or seemingly indiscriminately and produce alot of civilian casualties, you actually creat a lot more terrorists ... a rule of thumb of one civilia killed equals ten new terrorists created" Israel has "gone in" at "plausibly" genocidal levels (the matter under examnation at the International Court of Justice"). Israel is acting within a very short sighted or limited rationality. A peace conference putting a two state solution on the table needs to be worked towards. Netanyahu has rejected atwo state model. Okay, but any equitable one state solution would require that the new state be a secular binational (Israel-Palestine) with fully equal rights for both Jews and Palestinians, neither being privileged. It would require the complete dismantling of the present aparteid apparatus and the reinstatement of a Right of Return for refugees. The rejection of an ethonationalist "Home for the Jews" as is extant at present is, surely, beyond the capacity of either party to tolerate. Both Jews and Palestinians are locked into ethno-religious identities and expectations, no matter how superficially either is secularised. That means that we are left, by default, with a two state solution - in accordance with International Law as set by the UN. this means pre-1967 borders. Security issues will need to be hammered out at the negotiation table.
What you say about Palestinians is inaccurate. It's not about an "ethno-religious identity" for them and you can only think this if you don't know that there are Palestinian Christians just as there were Palestinian Jews. For Palestinians, it's always been about occupation, colonization, and apartheid.
I agree. Isreal is an ethno-nationalist state in that qualification for Isreali nationality is based solely upon a "racial" definition of Jewishness granting a right oif Return" (even if none of your ancestors hasever dwelt in Israel) to a "Jewish homeland". There is no real basis in this antique model of race, but it applies criteria nevertheless. Any one state dismantling of the "Jewish state" would have to institute a "coivic democarcy" - multicultural or multi racial with equal rights for all citizens. This is the kind of state South Africa aspires to be. If this is impracticable, the alternative ( asecond best) is a two state solution with Isreal back in ots pre 1967 war borders. As you rightly say the present Israel is a settler colonial state oppressing an occupid indigenous population that as you say contains different minority groups. this is probably the best we can hope for. The apocalptic utopianism of two options: either a genocidal "great Isreal" (an unacceptable "Biblically legitimated ideological ethno -nationalist nightmare) or a reborn Palestine ethnically cleansed of all Jews, are both ethically unacceptable. The two extant examples of ways out of this type of binary dilemma are 1) South Africa: a civic democratic "one state" solution, and 2) Northern Ireland a transitional "two state" power- sharing model open to a future one state civic democratic resolution, based on referendum legitimating aunited Ireland. The next step in Palestine/Israel, I think, may have to be a two state forward step.. This is unsatisfactory but a huge advance on the present unstable set-up. A Nelson Mandela is badly needed.
Great discussion
This guy literally said other countries deny human rights so I guess it’s ok for Israel to do it???? Wtf
right and then they claim to be the most moral army ...lol what?
I'd love to see Noam interview some military experts to talk about any viable alternate strategies to combat hamas
To answer your question.. it was 698 civilians.
David did an excellent job providing Noam with a more accurate perspective and charitable to both sides of the conflict showing true analysis loved it
As someone who's covered this subject for a while, the comment section has made me proud. I believe Noam in his core is a good guy, who's struggling morally to see the truth, even though it's told to him over.
This interview didn't go as planned, 😂
Noam, you probably should go back before 1948 and discuss why the British decided they didn’t want to stay there between two warring groups. The 1948 war was a continuation of the ongoing disputes, not a sudden burst of violence.
Yes, but don’t stop there. Look at Palestinian demographics at the turn of 20th century and then 1917.
Sometimes I think: Balfour Declaration- case closed. Who gave the British the right to bestow such a promise?
Also done out of a poisonous mix of arrogant Empire, bonkers Christian Zionism and the anti semitism of Balfour, Lloyd George and maybe Winston Churchill (who also was horribly racist. Dehumanized Arabs and other non Anglo Saxons)
Noam needs to go fight in Gaza. Tired of these dual citizens and their dual allegiances… no man can two masters
Enjoyed listening to David. Hadn't heard of him prior to this (I'm in the UK) but I will be checking out more interviews from him. He cuts through alot of BS. In terms of calm manner and appearance he also gives me Mark Knopfler vibes (minus the accent).
It becomes totaly unepcaptable to listen empty talks while ignoring genocide in Palestine
Live From The Table - Genocide, what even is it?
So there was this guy named Yasser Arafat who wanted a peace process. What do you think happened to him? Do you think the tooth fairy hunted him down and killed him? Or was is something else that did that? You completely ignored this bit of historical reality.
The exact same thing happened to Rabin at the hands of a right-wing Israeli. Both sides have been sabotaged by extremists to one degree or another.
It is common for liberals to mention as this guest did the rightwing judicial reforms in Israel. Caroline Glick has a viewpoint that makes those reforms sound rather more reasonable and rational given what she describes as unreasonable leftist judicial activism. Considering that is such a big plank of the current anti-Israel list of talking points, have you considered trying to get someone on who would seriously examine both sides of that question? (It would be fun for law nerds.)
correct me if i am wrong but did noam just label finkelstein, mate and khalidi, "... anti-semites ..." ?
Hey Noam, do you see how youre getting ratioed in the comments?
I'll some up the conflict. Imagine you own a lovely restaurant. Had it for generations. The Mafia turns up and asks for a percentage of there will be trouble.
You're not giving up anything. The mob breaks your legs, and takes over while moving you from front of house out to the dishwashing station.
While you're recovering from your injuries in hospital, people like their heads in and say "you should have taken the deal"
Interesting guest
If only the Amish lived in Gaza and Judea Samaria.
For the sake of argument … have you ever thought that Israel is the threat tu itself, a democracy to some and to some other a apartheid colonialistic state?
I watched this guy who interviewed Rashid Khalidi before. Unfortunately, his “emotional” attachment to Israel prevents him from conducting a well-balanced interview. Additionally, this guy doesn't have a very good understanding of the history of Israel-Palestine. Some Israeli newspapers, journalists, and activists are far more critical of this Apartheid State than this genocide apologist. Why did Israel support and finance Hamas? Because, as Bibi openly stated in his speech, supporting and financing Hamas was the instrument for Israel to destroy the prospect of a Palestinian state.
David Rothko is one of the smartest and most humane people I've heard on this subject. Thank you.
Noam is trying to make excuses for israel's genocide.
Noam (if I may), did you understand his answer to your question about shutting off the Hamas bank accounts in Qatar? I didn’t, and he seems to think it’s *the* way to diminish Hamas
This host isindulging in distortion if facts which the
his guest is trying to tactfully correct. It is very apparent that in a rather devious manner. ge us putting his personal biased views across at the same time trying to create the impression if holding a discussion to finding a solution. What a hypocrite.
This guy is incredible.
Why does he assume that terrorists were created bec of the US campaign in Iraq rather than just the fact that terrorist groups are very good at controlling and converting populations -as extremist ideologies have been since the beginning of time?
He is also ignoring Japan and Germany.
Probably because t's true. We squashed Al Qaeda right? And then a worse group came along - ISIS. You can't remove an ideology no matter how bloodthirsty you might be to see more dead. If your answer is to keep bombing people this is the answer you get
Germany and Japan had a military but war with terror is different because the military is in the civilisation and harder to defeat just like Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, southern American countries that USA killed close 20 million people. when I say civilisation, I mean ideology, whether communist or Islam.
But where did the terrorists that are "converting and controlling populations" come from? And why is it that the population can be converted and controlled?
Simples.
First the US illegally invaded Iraq.
The US administrator brought in to manage Iraq then disbanded Suddams Army, who were now all out of work.
Meanwhile the US continued to occupy Iraq and kill innocent civilians.
So now, the army guys with out a Job, are easily recruited to groups whose aim it is to expel the US.
Simples
Thinking the palestinians will change position to secure rebuilding of Gaza ? Based on what ?
Make-believe?
Bravo finally,!!! is due Netanyahu that the Palestinian people are divided!
Noam forgets that Pearl Harbor wasnt just the Japanese attacking Hawaii; They invaded all our island territories. So the fears of Hawaii and the west coast were legitmate.
7.57 - What a stupid question, if the Nakbar didn't occur, would the Palestinians still deny a Jewish State.
The Nakbar displaced 750,000 Palestinians, so the Zionists then had majority of Jews to establish and cement thier state, and deny the Palestinian them a decent state.
The host needs to read some history books not published in Israel.
Noam is such a light weight, compared to his guest its almost embarrassing.
Plus he throws shade on some of his previous experts he has interviewed, NF, Arron Matte etc as vehemently anti-Israel....hateful, anti-semite.
At best, Noam shows his ignorance and at worst bias, on nearly every point he raises, which is generally annoying.
Thank God, for his guest, who was much more balanced, informed and knowledgeable.
The continual emphasis placed on resolving the Palestinian issue before normalization of relations can happen between Israel and the surrounding Arab countries is a mistake. It is an unnecessary stumbling block, and it only serves to energize and embolden Palestinian national interests AT THE EXPENSE OF overall regional peace.
The Palestinians should be sidelined in the process because their desires are absolutely counter to a peaceful Middle East, just as empowering Iran would be counter to furthering peace.
There are Palestinian refugees all throughout West Asia. The entire region has been shaped by the Palestinian issue since 1948. Why do you think that one of the poorest countries in the world (Yemen) is putting everything on the line to support Palestine? Iran pretty much devised its strategy for creating the axis of resistance in part because of Palestine. The people throughout the region have been out in the streets protesting since October 7th . It's an incredibly popular topic among the citizens and any Arab country who would try to sideline Palestine now, especially since the genocidal onslaught in Gaza, is putting their country at risk for a serious uprising or coup, and that's true for even the most repressive regimes. If sidelining Palestine led to October 7th, why do you think it's wise to double down on a failed strategy? If anything sidelining Palestine would be the single most destabilizing thing to do.
@ojiugo The Middle East is, as usual, a hot mess. It's a gordian knot of repressive, dictatorial regimes, continually struggling to maintain control over a fractious and violent populace.
The vast majority of people in the Middle East have only two things in common; first is their Islamic identity, and second is their hatred for Israel. There's a connection there, and the anger of the people against actions taken by Israel in its defense stem almost entirely from their Islamic beliefs. Pandering to bigoted populations in order to keep dictators in power is a recipe for disaster. The West needs to support any movement towards tolerance and openness both in government and in civilian populations whenever it can. Continuing to kowtow either to repressive regimes, or to ignorant and bigoted mobs is no way to move into the future.
Translated : Who gives two f**ks about the Palestinians, Israel hasn't for 100 years.
Lets face it although the whole Israel project was a huge mistake by the UN and Europe, lets keep blaming the indigenous Arabs, and not the Europeans, who after 2,000 years of pogroms, expulsion and general discrimination against the Jews, thought it a great idea the Middle East deal with the Jewish problem they created.
And today on the genocide/apartheid apologist show:
Please explain why you blame the Palestinian? Nothing important was given to the Palestinian in the Oslo accords . Please read it!!!! Stop with same lies all the time, I am a proud Jew and want Israel to exist but we must be HONEST!!! Otherwise this will hunt us forever
This host is doing the worst PR job for Comedy Cellar, he´s just rying to justify genocide using the gustes as punchbags. Fortunately this guest does not make it easy for the the biased host.
Genocide: ask yourself the question - when in history has a country accusing another country of genocide been wrong in public opinion or where such an accusation has otherwise aged in a way where the government accused of genocide ages better in public opinion than the government accusing the genocide. It seems to be uncouth to believe that genocide denying will age well in 30 years. You can still change your opinion now!!
Circular logic.
@@worsethanjoerogan8061 It’s a point about Historicism itself, not the data or reasoning behind the accusations of genocide at The Hague….
@@worsethanjoerogan8061 There are hundreds of pages of documents of data supporting the genocide accusation at The Hague that I would refer you to rather than haggling about it in the comment section. Peace to you and yours ❤️
Great discussion.
Is the idea of Israelis fearing missile attacks on Tel Aviv and/or the evacuation of Tel Aviv and the surrounding areas totally outlandish? Is the fear of a Palestinian state being an existential threat so crazy?
Yes
If Israel attacks on Palestinians (notice I didn't say Hamas) continue the attacks on Israel won't stop. Just like my guy there said, for every civilian killed the more resistance against Israel you create. Think about it, and put yourself on civilian Palestinians' shoes. You see your INNOCENT mother, father, siblings killed by a bomb what would you do? Tell me you honestly wouldn't be filled with rage?
@@adelinodenga5184 Jews have been massacred in that land since 1921. The only reason they are still there is because at first it was the British kinda protecting them and then it was the IDF protecting them. Israelis have more of a claim than Palestinians because they have been the victims.
@@harrynewhof3165 do the following look up the number of people killed on each side, then you'll really know who's been massacred in the area. The British were assholes, imperialistic and very one sided since the beginning. The history is quite nuanced. However, it is very clear that the Palestinians innocent civilians (again not hamas) in this present conflict are being killed, displaced, and deprived of basic human rights by the Israeli military. Israel has the capacity to be more precise on its attacks, and that what it should be doing, because killing civilians will not help them to make Israelis safer at all. Unless that's their goal anyway, in which case everybody should condemn them and be on the right side of history.
didntvanswer his question at all..@@harrynewhof3165
I love and hate this podcast.
I’m a humanitarian so I care for Palestine.
This is hard. He speaks from the point that everything is based off of Israeli safety..
Of course the Ashkenazi see themselves as an ethnic group since they are one
Man, every time i listen to your show , I hope deep inside that you can see the bigger picture a little bit more clear. But you keep putting these mind barriers that blocks you from seeing some part of the actual truth. I feel your a nice guy deep inside but you have a major moral issues when it comes to criticizing Isrl. We don't want you to side with the other Palestinians but please open your mind a little bit more and see where are some truths are. Stop believing all the stories u were told or read since all what it does makes you look very biased and a little racist in a lot of times by refusing to look at the facts surrounding this whole issue. Playing the victim all the time is not gonna always win the argument for why you act the way you act
I guess these two are not going to talk about the illegal occupation of Palestine
it's always overlooked....when it's the main issue
Noam thought experiment at 58.52, translated.
Israel would prefer to bomb the fuck out of Gaza, civilian free :
But Hamas would still bring them back to Gaza.
Israel Moral, Hamas is to blame for the IDF military actions.
If the war in the Pacific went poorly, and the Nazis were still holding up, then yes it would be realistic. But after Nazi Germany fell, and the allies could shift their focus to Japan 100%, I can't imagine a scenario where they would come out on top.
I mean to be clear Japan alone is very different than the axis of powers that were involved World War II. Could Japan been viewed as an existential threat at that time much more so than Hamas.
I have been watching to the history of the Pacific war and it is clear that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor to remove the US from their Asian conquest - not to invade the US. The same assessment would be made of the US/German war in the Atlantic. England was facing an existential threat, but never the US.
The difference with Egypt and the Palestinian is clear
We didn’t steal them nothing! But to the arabs leaving in Palestinian land ( now call Israel) we took from themmmm don’t you see the difference ????
You're wrong Israel may not always exist as an apartied state.
Judaism is a religion and the Jewish people are scattered throughout the world, even in Africa.
You don’t see Christians asking for their own State, they’re also all around the world. As with all religions.
Noam, at 36.30 questions the well known facts that Bibi, helped and supported Hamas, in order to split the Palestinians between HAMAs and the PLO, ensuring a two state solution.
FFS, why has this guy got a platform.
Norman finklestine is hate full....ok
10:00 the British Arrogation? Without Britain neither Jew nor Arab would have a sate. Of course the British had the right to decide they won over the Ottomans. Arabs and Jews both independently cooperated with them to help secure states and so it was.
The only way that logic works is if you think that Britain gets to decide all the rules in a place that didn't care anything about Britain before Britain decided that they were entitled to decide the fates of the people in the region.
It must suck for Noam to have all these comments calling you a bad host who just has no soul and I. Support of “war” genocide
How much BS by this David Rothkopf. He has no suggestion how Israel can win Hamas without doing what Israel is doing.
another kapo dhimmi
I didn’t know Norman HATES Israel. The host has no idea what he’s talking about. Dude just biased as hell. He putting words in the guest’s mouth. Hard to watch. I deeply thought Jew was a religion…you have African Jews; Russian Jews, Ukraine Jews, Germany Jews, Polish Jews….someone please explain
How about doing a little research? All Jews are genetically the same on the Y chromosome - middle eastern. X chromosome depends on where they fled after they fled the Romans. Even still, all Ashkenazi Jews have the same X chromosome founder pool.
@@joge2468That's not actually true. There's a reason why genetic testing is banned in Israel.
@@ojiugo pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20560205/
@@ojiugo DNA testing is not illegal in Israel, though direct-to-consumer tests are, for privacy reasons. In fact, DNA tests have been used since 2017 to prove Jewish ancestry for purposes of immigration, orthodox marriage, etc.. Pre-marital and genetic DNA testing is widespread in Israel - more so than in other countries - due to the large number of inheritable diseases in the Jewish population.
@@joge2468 It's outlawed unless you have a doctor's prescription or a court order and that's been the law since about 2000. Essentially before genetic testing became widely available. It's not used to prove "Jewish ancestry" because there's no such thing as being genetically Jewish. That's not how DNA works and it's a belief that's rooted in racism. DNA can tell you if you have genes that are more common among people from a certain geographical area, but that also means that Palestinians would have a stronger/more recent ancestry that proves they are from "Israel"/occupied Palestine. Hence the "privacy concerns" that just means they don't want it to be too obvious that Ashkenazi Jews have less of a claim to any semitic ancestry.
I feel for the host. He's def having a crisis in his head. Between 10:30 - 23:00 is sad to see.
I hear it said over and over, "There has to be a two-state solution!" How is it, at this point, that anyone is saying that with a straight face?
In the face of Palestinian intransigence, it was inevitable that Israel would move away from the idea. Who can blame them?
If that’s your thought, what’s your plan for the Palestinians, what’s your final solution for them
@bunncameron6687 pressure needs to be put on the Muslim dominant countries surrounding Israel to allow them to emigrate. They cannot stay in proximity with Israel.
@@AndyColglazier Before talking out of your backside, you first need to read a book or two about this conflict.
@lethalchocobo1886 instead of attempting insult, why don't you tell me how I'm wrong.
@@AndyColglazier explain to me the people born in a land need to extradited. Just have one country and give them all the vote. Before telling me that is ridiculous remember there is already 2 million Palestinians in Israel who love the place, won’t the extra 5 million also love the place
Israel's treatment of its neighbours including the Palestinians has always had a security related context. For example the Nakba, the 1967 and the Gaza siege: all of these happened due to physical violent threat to existence of jews in Palestine or Israel
All as response to the terroristic actions of Israeli militias and gangs. Deir Yassin being one of the most famous. Israel had a choice between expansion and security. It chose expansion. It will never have security. Period it is a threat to every country in its vicinity. It has shown what it will do to get what it wants. It is not about defense of its people
You cannot act be in an offensive posture initially and then claim defensive action. Israel has never complied with UN mandate. It has always opted for aggression. The states in the region have to recognize it at this point. But even when complying with UN mandate Palestinian Territories still never get what they agreed too. Which then leads to groups like Hamas. Hamas stance against Israel is the same stance that Israel has against the region. Which is why it exists and has support.