Mythologist Martin Shaw's visionary conversion to Christianity
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Storyteller and mythologist Martin Shaw explains how a revelation during a forest vigil led to his recent conversion to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. He also tells Justin what Christmas means to him now.
Martin Shaw: drmartinshaw.com/
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I'd been an an agnostic, borderline atheist, most of my life until the road-to-damascus moment which shook me to my core..What to say next..nothing, silence is what it is🙏🏻
I’d love to hear your story. Would you care to share it here?
👍
Same
And behold, the Lord passed by,
and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind;
and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake;
and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire;
and after the fire a still small voice.
So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle
and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave.
Suddenly a voice came to him, and said,
“What are you doing here, Elijah?”
No matter how many questions I have: The absurdities, the paradoxes, the seeming contradictions, the historical questions, the end-times questions, the experiential frustrations, I am always confronted with this fact: Nobody is, has been, or will be, as perfect and as beautiful as Jesus Christ to me. I can't escape the fact that through the absurdities of my experience that I know that God loves me, that he is a person and not some inanimate force. That truth is personal. And that it will be all right in the end, even though we might have everything else screaming at us in full blast that we are living a terrible tragedy. There are far better things waiting for us than any we have left behind.
We are loved. Thank you Jesus.
This is the ONE AND ONLY AND FINAL FIRST AQUARIAN HIPPIE HOLY UNIQUE GOLDEN MESSAGE who is the GOD'S NATURAL POSITIVE LAST PROMEISE FOR WHO WANT TO LIVING as INFINITE HEALTHY HUMANITY of the NEW HIPPIE AGE OF THE AQUARIUS!!!I now will translate because this is very APSTRACT FACT OF THEORETICAL RELATIVITY FROM THE CREATIVE LOGICAL ASPECT for everyone!The MATERIAL RICH GLOBAL SATANIC SECRET ALIEN'S TECHNICRATIC ELITES will psyhicall live forever in this THEIR FAKE METHAPSYHICAL HOLOGRAM'S DARK UNIVERSE(who THE MOST SCARIEST THEIRS HIDDEN TRUTH IS THE their can secretly stimulative create and manipulative control our biological codes who have the Alien's Quntom atoms who are lusional psyhical future past carmic circle of our parallel multidimensional momental reicharnations in your The most orimitive Human's genetical Dna)!!!And that's why WE MUST PSYHICALY GO AWAY IN THE GOD'S KINGDOM WHO ARE EVERYWHERE BUT NOT IN THIS ALIEN'S FAKE UNIVERSE!We MUST PSYHUCALY GO AWAY, BEFORE OUR BIOLOGICAL DEATH AND WE MUST BECOME A MULTIDIMENSIONAL SUPER SPIRITUAL RICH GOD'S NATURAL BEINGS WHO WILL ALWAYS LIVING A INFINITE POSITIVE HEALTHY AQUARIAN HIPPIE NATURAL UNIVERSAL ORGINAL IVINDUAL SPECIAL IDEAL SPIRITUAL PSYHICAL UNIQUE PEACEFULLY FREEDOM WHO IS THE GOD'S NEUTRAL BRAVE TRUSTFULL GIFT OF THE GOD'S REALITY,WHO IS THE ALWAYS BEEN OUT who NEVER WILL BE IN THE THIS CARMIC MANIPULATIVE CIRCLE OF THE ILUSIONAL HOLIGRAMIC REICHARNATIONS IN THIS ALIEN'S CREATED FAKE UNIVERSE!!!This is WILL BE VERY THE MOST DANGEROUS WORST APOCALIPSTIC METHAPSHYCAL DISCIMINATION AFTER YOUR BIO PSYH DEATH WHO IS THE SATANIC WORST LIE WHICH IS THE MOST NEGATIVE VIRTUAL TECHNOCRATY WHO IS THE FALSE BIBLICAL JUDGEMENT BT THE SATANIC TECHNORATS FOR THE GOD'S CHILDREN!!!THIS TECHNOCRATIC METAPSYHICAL VIRTUAL TECHNOLOGIES(who were gravitation,graviton,radiation,explosion,dark fake material anti matter,black galactical magnetic holes) IS THE UNNATURAL CONSTANT LAWS METHAPSIHICALY CREATED BY THE ANCIENT ALIENS OF THE ANNUNAKI,WHO STIMULATIVE CONTROLL VEDIC YOUR REICHARNATIONS WHO ARE THE ANCIENT THD MOST PRIMITIVE BIOLOGICAL GENETICAL MEDICAL MANIPULATINS FROM THE RELIGIOUS POLITICAL ECONOMICAL SCINETISTS WHO ARE THE MOST NEGATIVE SATANIC TECHNOCRATS WHO WERE THE POLITEISTIC NEPOTISTIC COUNTRIES'S HALFGODS WHO CREATED THEIR FAKE ANGELICAL HIEARCHIES OF THEIR FAKE MONOTHEISM FOR FANATIC ANARXISTIC CONTROLL THE PEOOPLE,because this is the MOST HIDDEN SECRET SERIOUS FACT!!!Now do you understand ONLY ONE TRUE GENIOUS REBELIAN COMUNISTIC ATHEISTIC LGBTQ ENTUIASTIC LOVLEY IVINDUAL ORGINAL YOURSELF who is the AQUARIAN PACIFISTIC OPTIMISTIC UNIVERSAL HUMANISTIC HIPPIE GOLDEN AQUARIAN UNIQUE TELEPATICHAL INTUITION FROM YOURSELF TO YOURSELF IN YOURSELF,my God's people?🌸🌸🌸🌷🌷🌷🌺🌺🌺💐💐💐🌼🌼🌼
That is profoundly put
@@faithburns8379 I WILL NEVER WANT to WE WHO ALWAYS WILL BE THE GOD'S UNIVERSAL INFINITE POSITIVE CHILDREN after our historical biological death be METHAPSIHICALY MANIPULATED SPIRITUALTY BY THE MOST DANGEROUS SATANIC SCARIESTS TECHNOCRATS IN THEIR APOCALIPSTIC BIBLICAL VIRTUAL TECHNOLOGICAL HELL!!!I am TOO MUCH SCARED,for the GOD'S CHILDREN my sister!!!😭😭😭😭😭😭
You nailed. When people ask, why do you believe? The simple or perhaps not so simple is Jesus. A study of his character as a person is what compels my faith that He is God in person. He is the God man. Even if you think the gospels are all fiction, you can't deny there is something about the person of Jesus that just pulls at you, compels you, drags and draws you to His person. There is a reason for that: Jesus Christ is the autobiography of God. Think long and hard on that. Who writes an autobiography and who do they write about? Logos doesn't mean just WORD. He's so much more than a single WORD of God.
As well, “to whom shall we go, Thou has the words of eternal life”, right?
What saddens me about this thread is the number of people who feel entitled to say what he still needs to do in order for his encounter with God to be authentic, or why they are so sure that it isn't. His path to and deeper into the Christian faith is a matter between Martin and God. Since when have we been given the right, after a 30 minute conversation, to put up signposts telling him which direction to take or to dictate the propositional content that will determine the reality of his encounter with Jesus?
Well said
Thanks so much for this post. That is one of the things that drive people away from so called Christians, judgement before love. As if any of us have perfect theology!!! I was enraptured listen to this dear brother and I can't wait for what the Lord will do in this life
In my own experience ,more often than not, its other Christians that put me off my walk
As a christian we r without reprieve called by scripture to verify all experiences thru scripture for truth. In 30 minutes the interview does not give any substance of what the actual doctrine he identifies with so it leaves questions in the viewers mind. Commenta like his experience of the lights presenting themselves said to return to his habitation of Genesis pops as a flag to question, what does he mean? It is very close to the account of Genesis 6 which is not God but fallen angels. And more flags... But This makes the point there is reason to assess all things as directed by the word of the Lord. All that being said this is till not an accusation of him being a false christian. We r called to the straight and narrow.
@@azzag2414 i might have been disappointed by some Christians, but I walk with Lord Jesus! i must also say that i have been inspired by many many more Christians, close or far, now or in history! The disappointments of mine have been used by God as His training for me, to help me take roots downward and bear fruit upward. God be thanked.
I have found people over the last 3 years (Rod Dreher, Paul Kingsnorth, and others) that I have followed because I love what they do, to find out later that they became Christian. This has done more than anything else to solidify my own reversion and journey! I am so thrilled to listen to Martin melding the mystical and mythical with the Truth and Beauty of Christ’s story and living being. Hallelujah, Christ is Risen! Thanks for a great chat!
Jordan Petersen on the Passion in discussion with a Priest from Steubenville University is a walk like few others
@@naradaian thanks for the tip! 🌟
Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?
As a hospital chaplain since 1979 I've never heard anything quite so remarkable. My uncle in 1949 founder of Back to the Bible Broadcast would have envyed the day he had an interview like this. A superb interview.
Blimey, can only imagine the experiences you’ve encountered over the years. Good for you.
Completely agree that it appears that Christianity -- authentic Christianity, which involves an encounter with Christ, the One who lives within our spirits -- may be the last real mystery left in the world. Too much of formal Christendom seems deathly afraid of mystery, and if that is indeed the case, they don't offer much to people in the world who are looking for God.
Truer words were never posted.
(Eastern) Orthodox Christianity still lives by and in that Mystery.
Interesting… I had not yet heard that this man became Orthodox before I posted that!
Not sure of what you mean by "authentic Christianity, which involves an encounter with Christ, the One who lives within our spirits". If I misrepresent your thoughts please forgive me, as it's often difficult for people to express what they're attempting and end up saying things that are unorthodox all the while they're trying to not express things that are indeed unorthodox. However, it SOUNDS like you're saying that God is already resident in the spirits of fallen human beings. And when I say "fallen human beings" I mean all people born into this world, who are, by means of our connection with our first Federal Head, Adam, who sinned, and IN him, we all died spiritually. This is precisely the thing that must be resolved in order for salvation to take place. That is, the Spirit of God acts upon an unrepentant sinner by means of removing the heart of stone, opening blind eyes and deaf ears, and breathing spiritual life into that which is spiritually dead. Now, with open ears and eyes, with spiritual life pulsing through his spirit and a heart beating with the love of Jesus, the sinner turns unto Christ in faith and thereby simultaneously repents, turning away from unbelief and the disobedience connected with it. So the short of it being, we are not indwelt by the Spirit of God UNLESS and UNTIL the Spirit of God changes our disposition.
@@stegokitty - the key word/phrase is ‘encounter with Christ’.
Not by history, nor by culture, and not even by biblical facts, but the living Jesus.
Same journey here but i come from a Sufi background with Aramaic roots but the intensity really ramped up for me via the Visionaries of Garabandal…. Yup Divine Mother, Archangel Michael and an Infant Christ. From addressing God as the Beloved to being beloved…great to hear this man’s elaborate revalation
This was a wonderful interview. As someone whose conversion to Christianity took place through a momentary, visionary experience of Christ, I resonate when I hear other testimonies like this one. It is a radical reminder of the God who is there and who breaks through even into the most hard or apathetic of hearts.
He is still the God of the miraculous. In different ways He makes Himself apparent. Dr. Francis Collins had an epiphany that broke thru into his spirit. Dr. James Tour had an encounter where he felt the presence of Christ in Spirit.
This man is talking about his experience, sounds like my granddad conversion. He went into the hills and came back a change man. I think he was gone for a month, it was as my mom said Amazing 👏
Great to have you, Martin. Not “on our side” but simply “saved”. Knowing one more person is now safe from condemnation makes us all rejoice with heaven!
"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9
I'm stunned. I don't even know why of how this landed on my RUclips feed..but it did and so I listened...and I'm stunned. I'm 57 years old and I swear that I am going through precisely the same thing...the SAME journey back into the arms of Yeshua. And here I am listening to this in utter amazement...all I can think to say is "Lord, please lead us in whichever way we can best serve".....the parallels between this mans experience and my own are almost startling to me....🤭 Its absolutely lovely...❤️❤️❤️❤️
Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace
And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
14.53 When he said that the occult book shop asked him if anything interesting had happened to him recently, and at that moment he knew, _he knew_ that he had fallen into the mind of Christ. I felt that. I really felt that.
And proof that Jesus Christ can appear even in the most bizzaare place "occult book shop".
Truly He is a "Omnipresent" God regardless of circumstance. He created the entire Universe and everything in it, that is why Jesus is not a legalistic God.
With his background, it would be fascinating to hear him expound on Heiser's book, The Unseen Realm.
Martin Shaw--cannot get enough of him. He is somebody my secular nieces will listen to. What a beautiful man. He and Kingsnorth together--cannot think of a more amazing pair. Cannot wait to follow both your work. Thank you, Justin and Martin.
I had a very powerful conversion experience during Covid. I have to say, I loved the stillness of Covid. I spent the time in nature and had what I can only call an experience of the absolute firehose of "giveness"--the Glory of God. It all involved holding a little Ruby Crowned Kinglet that had flown into a window near my feeder until he recovered. His wing was made of wings that were made of wings--ferrules, ferrules, ferrules. The only word I had for it was Glory. ps--I have since put stickers on all the windows so the birds don't hurt themselves....
Thanks for sharing this story - even with such brevity, I could delight in the beauty of "the absolute firehose of 'givenness' - the Glory of God" - and you introduced me to the precious Kinglet, reminding me that, indeed, "the whole earth is full of His Glory"!
Love this!
I can relate with you: I came back to faith after perceiving the Glory of God while running down the beach side on an awful rainy day... At one point, His Glory became so evident I started singing and crying at the top of my lungs... the inertia of tha encounter still keeps me going more than three years later.
I got christmated yesterday, by the way, at a small Orthodox parrish that has doubled in size in the last 2-3 years due to converts.
Something's brewing in the air,, don't you think? Glory to God!
Wonderful interview.
This is the 2nd conversion testimony I have listened to where a praying, listening mother has been central.
You will never experience “very, very nice.” in the Traditional Catholic Mass. You experience the Crucifixion on Mount Calvary each and every time.
This is very significant! I was deeply moved by Martin's introduction to John Moriarty's selected writings "The Hut at The Edge of The Village," reading it was transformative for me. He says in one part, "Our hubris aches to kneel at immensity's door," and it turns out that door is Christ. Martin has the potential to be a great voice in the Christian conversation for people who feel that the faith isn't "earthy" or "immediate" enough. Part of the reason I am attracted to the nature religions of first peoples is that there seems to be a reverence and immediacy, an intimacy and grounded contact, with the Holy that isn't words or thoughts. I myself can't escape the fact that Christ is unlike anything else that exists or has existed, and even though doubt impedes me, I know deep in my heart that there is only one question: Do you come, or do you not. Wonderful interview!
What a stunning interview! I was particularly taken by the phrase “I was defeated by the beauty of the liturgy.” As a convert to Anglicanism, that phrase aptly summarizes my sentiments regarding leaving evangelicalism for a sacramental expression of the church. Thank you for this great interview!
@@australopithecusafarensis
Thanks for the invitation. My husband is an Anglican priest, I was blessed by pope John Paul the second, I have worked with charismatic Catholics, and I love my Roman brothers and sisters. But I have found a wonderful home in the Anglican tradition and feel that I am truly “Catholic”. Wherever Christ is found there I am at home.
@ april
What's Anglicanism?...please tell me where I could find that in the Bible, please?
I experienced that same feeling recently as I hadn't been to my childhood Lutheran church in many decades.
Throughout the Christmas day service, as I followed the liturgy I detested as a child, I found myself in a dreamlike state. It was beautiful. And now I'm searching for a liturgical Lutheran Church near me.
Visit, and you'll find the reformed catholics preach the truth without the weird Catholic practices.
I do t understand the liturgy because raised evangelical. I was under the impression that it was wrote and “dead” tradition and just printed prayers. However, I’m open to exploring it, hope it’s not as I thought.
@@faithburns8379
The liturgy is like a script, like a redramatization of God’s story, that we retell week after week. It’s largely Scripture that has been reshaped for worship. It’s also catechetical- over time it shapes us and gets into our bones. I find that, from time to time, phrases from the liturgy come out in my musings about the Lord. It’s not reinvented week after week, but something that we step into that’s ancient, and that Christians have been praying and worshiping with for centuries and centuries. For those that have not been renewed by the Holy Spirit, it can become ritualistic. But, I would rather be fed by something that’s nutritious, even if I go through it in a rote manner, then something that’s empty and void of Scripture. I guess it’s kind of like the difference between eating at McDonald’s and eating at the fine French restaurant down the road from us. I don’t necessarily savor every morsel from the French restaurant, but I know it’s beautiful to behold, delicious in taste, and nutritious for my body. On the other hand, eating a steady diet of fast food has proven to not be healthy for individuals over a period of time.
Just my own thoughts on the journey that my husband and I have been on. Blessings.
A blessed Feast of the Nativity to all my Orthodox brothers and sisters, peace and blessings to us all, Orthodox or otherwise.
What a beautiful way to end the year! Praises and hallelujahs to God, our Father for His work in the life of Martin Shaw! Here's to a year of "stories and lifestyles" that both get our hands dirty and wash us all clean.
But who wants to wash in blood...and why would such a ridiculous thing be necessary - human sacrifice for no good reason - how beautiful.
Thank you for this excellent interview.
Love his heart & humor.
What a lovely soul!
The Holy Spirit definitely chased him down!🍃🕊️
This just came up and started automatically playing in my RUclips feed and I am so glad it did! That line about “doors slamming open all the way back to Bethlehem”…beautiful! Well put about Orthodoxy being about transformation not transaction-spot on! Christ deals with us all in such unique ways. I never get tired of hearing others’ stories. Thanks for this, guys!
One of the most moving episodes so far. Thank you so much for sharing.
Something is happening…I am becoming Eastern Orthodox at age 57. My story is somewhat similar to his and my feelings about it are pretty much exactly the same. I was born Baptist, a rather spiritually curious child, left the church at age 17, and began studying eastern religions…I do not regret my spiritual journey…it is happening when it was supposed to. and now, at age 57, I am joining the Eastern Orthodox church. First time I attended a service, I knew. I was home…finally. It just keeps getting deeper. The Holy Spirit is really
Moving in the world. As he stated so beautifully …the church is transformational not transactional. The mystery that is our amazing God creator, son, and Holy Spirit are alive in the Eastern Orthodox church in such a beautiful way! Bring on the Saints and the wild old women;)
Yes, something IS happening!
I got christmated yesterday, after coming back to faith three years ago (through an experience in nature, mind you) and over a year of attending an Orthodox parrish. I'm 48, was a Baptist most of my life and an Agnostic/Atheist for a few years. It was really hard for me, due to my misunderstanding of icons, veneration, etc. But I just couldn't (or wouldn't) let go!
Just yesterday my spiritual father reminded me the attendance has virtually doubled in the last 2-3 years in our parish... Also yesterday, two young ladies attended for the first time, looking to become catechumens. One of them used to be an Atheist.
Let's keep praying! Something IS happening!
@@andres.e. Amen, Amen, Amen
I’m absolutely certain that lockdown and the pandemic has pushed the impulse to a greater spiritual awareness. Certainly did for me. I’ve also started to investigate Orthodoxy as Anglicanism is now spiritually dead, having gone woke and thus broke, and Catholicism is doing the same thing, especially under this Pope.
What an inspirational testimony
Kudos to you Martin! God Bless you!
Beautiful man, so blessed to hear him speaking❤️
Very subjective, vague and elusive. Just how Christian of a conversion was this? Felt like a slow dance around the heart of the Gospel that never quite alighted on the Gospel itself.
I love how he explained the moment it hit him, that it was (the mind of) CHRIST that he was hearing from!
When it’s GOD, it hits you hard. What an awesome Creator & Savior.
I understand when Martin says that many were disappointed with his experience and conversion. Practised Celtic Paganism for nearly a decade. A "moment"of change to Christianity happened.I was stopped in my tracks on a frosty river paddock where rainbows of light reflected off the tree-like frost crystals that had formed on newly mown grass piles and for a moment I was overwhelmed by wonder, time dissolved, it was an expansive moment and for a small period everything made sense, then the "why" followed immediately.
Why do we recognise beauty, are drawn to beauty? It serves no evolutionary sense to love beauty, create beauty, crave beauty in our lives. So much beauty in the wild is no accident and finally I recognised the hand of loving creation was in everything and everyone. It was a raw emotional response that saw past "nature" itself to the creator of nature.The only God who is defined by love, one I could accept culturally and understand, is found in Christianity.
Once creation is a personal reality, a creator God follows and the path I chose to follow was the one that made sense, had the "wildness" of Jesus. Martin is spot on, following Jesus is the wildest, often challenging and most counter tradition of most religions.
Love is embedded in creation, yes the bad still happens, but following that love was now inescapable.
Never been happier, despite the demands made of us as we follow Jesus. I do recognise it's not always easy or possible to convince my Pagan friends that its all good and as it should be. My change is not an external judgement of their religion, which they mostly perceive it to be, but an internal change in mine. I still love them, perhaps more now, enjoy spending time with them still, not despite their faith, but because of mine.A world view that is often lost in explanation.God Bless.
Fascinating interview!
The Celtic flavour he's looking for is sprinkled throughout Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
I hope Jesus steers him towards Rome, we need to remember that.
What a lovely conversation. I’m so happy to hear Martin’s story. I have been pondering the question of whether this rise has been due to lockdown but I honestly believe it began before that. Lockdown was almost a gift to me but the transformation was already well underway.
This reminds me of when someone came to Thoreau hoping for a deathbed conversion. "Do you want to make your peace with God?" "I don't know that we had quarreled," thoreau replied
Marvellous interview & great to hear how God has given this man a supernatural visions and dreams as He obviously has a purpose for his life and knew exactly what was needed to bring him to his senses. Interesting timing also being just before the Covid “pandemic” as society seems to be going through some upheavals which will need Christians to raise their authenticity to meet the challenges we are facing…
Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?
@@lufhopespeacefully2037 the Trinity certainly does appear in the bible, but not as the word "Trinity" since the word itself is only a description to put the doctrine in a nutshell. You need to read the right books such as "Creeds in the Making" by Alan Richardson, or "In Understanding Be Men" by T.C. Hammond. Remember that the Devil always tries to counterfeit what God does as he wanted to be like God, so Satan has his own Trinity (see Revelation chapter 13 with The Dragon, The Beast & The second beast called The False Prophet)
For those saying why didn’t he take a picture. It seemed that he was more interested in proving it to himself than proving it to others during that moment. And even if he did take a photo, no one believes anything anymore and probably would have claimed it was photoshopped.
Thank you. In full agreement.
Too many Christians leaning on their own understanding, which God through Jesus, implicitly warns against.
Also, judge not least you be judged.
God bless Martin and all his family and friends. Just wishing him well on his new journey with Christ 🙏
And thank you, Justin, for bringing this story to light. Happy New Year to you and all at Unbelievable.
Also, I agree with RMarshall. So many comments on this video that divide rather than unite. It reminds me of Mark 9:38-41 when Jesus said whoever is not against us is for us. This man is boldly proclaiming the name of Christ and honestly seeking fellowship with the King. And just because he doesn't share their exact theology, which to be honest as far as I am concerned if it isn't blatantly against the Apostle's Creed it isn't heterodox to Christendom at large, they like to criticize. Let's see more encouragement. It is that attitude that has driven so many away from the faith. Let's welcome this brother in Christ and celebrate his journey. Not nitpick the finer points of various unnecessary theological statements that divide so many denominations.
Couldn’t agree more with his statement of what John Moriarity says about Christianity, that it needs to rediscover its “bush soul”, if by that he means we need to divest ourselves of the artificial expressions that currently plague the Christian church ( and by THAT I mean the true church and not the major denominations which clearly are even worse off) which have no eternal value and little to do with authentically dying to self in order to draw near to God, and I hope that this man not only does not become disillusioned and disappointed in what passes for Christianity today, even in its best expressions, but, rather, strives to live out to the best of his abilities what he sees in Scripture as to what authentically living for Christ really means.
Fascinating interview. Two things he says towards the end really struck me:
1 - I think of what kind of God chooses to be born as a human child who immediately has a death sentence on his head?
2 - the early Christians, the things that they really had in their favour, is not necessarily dazzling apologetics. It's lifestyle and story.
Loved these as well, esp the commentvsbout God being born....what an incredible thing to ponder.
However the dazzling apologetics are what came later in order to differentiate true Christianity from heresy. It's simply the way that it is. Immediately after the ascension of Christ the heretics infiltrated the church and began drawing people away from the truth. It's been the same ever since. It's why there are theologians who defend the Truth against heretics to this day. And thus it shall be until Christ returns on the Last Day.
@@stegokitty Cheers, I suggest that there is not much mention of heretics in Acts which is the record of the Church after the ascension. The Church fathers of course had to deal with heresies but this would have seemed to be much later. Maybe I have missed something?
@@eamonnmurphy1844 I'm not sure of what your point is Eamon, unless you're taking the word "immediately" to mean something like "the very next day". Not every book functions the same as another. Be that as it may, you might want to reread the Acts, as there's plenty of heresy and outright wickedness being battled against therein.
For instance, Acts 13:4-12 has Paul rebuking (and not pussyfooting around in the least) the false prophet Elymas/Bar-Jesus. See also where, instead of Paul's sermons, we have him continuing to rebuke heretics, to warn Christians of wicked people who would lead them astray, etc, as in 14:8-18, 15:1-29, 16:16-19, 17:22-24, and 20:17-36.
And again, in Paul's epistles there's one heresy and aberration after another that he's dealing with in the churches of Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, etc.
The author of the letter to the Hebrews as well is making a staunch defense of the deity of Christ, which John does as well, especially in his Gospel, and continues to do battle with one gnostic heresy after another in his letters.
So yeah, it's pretty much immediately, comparatively speaking. Heresy was worming itself into the church way before the early church fathers came along.
@@stegokitty cheers, i guess its the way you say that the Church was infiltrated from the start to draw away people from the Faith. That later apologetics seperated the true Christianity from the false. Your making it look like no one knew what was the real faith from the start. That the body of the Church was split assunder by heresies. Its obvious from the start of the Church in Acts that there is a chain of command, a structure where the truth is held. Where the direction of the Church is plotted. On the fringes there might have been some errors but in no way does Acts maintain that the original Church, the Apostles, its leaders went astray. That the whole Church had to be sorted out by apologetics later. If Acts does say this, maybe you can enlighten me further. God bless you 😊
If you are in Cloyne , Ireland 🇮🇪 please let me know. I live near there and I may be able to help you.
Bishop Berkeley was there once upon a time ( no fairytale).
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling.
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
1 Corinthians 2
I’m going orthodox too.
This reminds me of when someone came to Thoreau hoping for a deathbed conversion. "Do you want to make your peace with God?" "I don't know that we had quarreled," thoreau replied
I would like to ask Mr. Shaw if he has attended a Catholic latin/tridentine Mass. I would also ask to know his view of St. John Henry Newman.
But by now he is baptised, yea?
So far I’m not very far into it and it seems to smell of Gnosticism. I’d be inclined to push back on his lack of conversation experience. A good talk through the apostolic faith- Romans 1-3, mens need if a righteousness in Christ not in self, man’s inherent sinfulness (Roman’s 3.9-22) and impending judgement. Gods provision of a Righteousness, through Christs death (Romans 3.23-31). The necessity of a transfer of trust from self-works to Christ (Romans 4.1-6) - faith in Christ alone Is essential. The joy, certainty and relationship we receive upon exercising faith. Romans 5.1-11. We can sweetly entertain anything as Christian, just because it says it is, but without the litmus test of the New Testament we are left with some unusual heterodox ideas.
Amen
The methodical tramp through Romans is what his catechism classes will do. The Lord knows what's going to work best for each person.
I saw a cross shape in the clouds the first day i went back to church.
Great interview. I can relate to his background was raised early in the faith (Baptist) but by my teenage years drifted over to Buddhism ,Taoism, Hinduism and New Age Paganism for a few decades. Many things brought me back to Christ, but for me I developed a hobby of studying math, physics, chemistry and astronomy. Eventually the lightbulb started to glow in my mind and heart to the intricate way the universe is set up, the laws that are "obeyed" in science, nature and math from the far reaches of the universe to the tiniest nano-particle. This universe didn't just happen. I found a church and was amazed by the loving unjudgmental nature of the people there, not the negative stereotype almost always portrayed in the media and film. Romans 1:20 " For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
My old school friend! Very interesting and I can confirm his family home didn't have a television.
"... I was continually aided by God... "
Yes! Most certainly. "... God is good..."❤️
We are often bombarded with "ex-evangelists" on social media, but it's wonderful to remember that God is still building His church. People who deconvert tend to do it with a bullhorn, while people who come to Christ tend to excitedly tell only those close to them.
May God bless your ministry ❤🙏❤🙏❤. May I ask you to do a programme on Hinduism and how it is intertwined with the new age , buddism , etc.
Martin Shaw's explanation has similarities to a supernatural experience of God that drew me into much Knowledge in 1977. Christianity crushes and distances itself from knowing God as He requests.
An initiating experience is the base that can be built on to have entry into the Holy Place and the indwelling of God.
A journey needs a destination but the "Way" into Holiness cannot be comprehended in the natural, biological, carnal mind.
The Gospel is able to push past the fallen nature, because God’s Word doesn’t come back void!
Does Martin Shaw have any book/article which he wrote regarding the relation between the Scriptures and myth/fantasy?
Also, is there any book of such sort/genre that Martin Shaw recommends?
I would be interested too.
Have a look on his Substack, The House of Beasts and Vines...he talks about Christianity and myth there, and sometimes makes book recommendations. There is a new book out by him called Bardskull (Cista Mystica press)...I don't think it has an explicitly Christian theme, I'd say it's too early for him to have done a book on that yet, but do check out the Substack. Paul Kingsnorth has one too. They are both wonderful.
@@eugeneylliez829 Have a look on his Substack, The House of Beasts and Vines...he talks about Christianity and myth there, and sometimes makes book recommendations. There is a new book out by him called Bardskull (Cista Mystica press)...I don't think it has an explicitly Christian theme, I'd say it's too early for him to have done a book on that yet, but do check out the Substack. Paul Kingsnorth has one too. They are both wonderful.
@@laurenlauren4239 thanks, ma sista :D i just checked Beardskull - it seems as either a collection of stories or poetry, but i am looking for a scholarly assessment of myths through the lenses of Christianity. but thank you
@@TheNikolinho You're welcome :)
What is somewhat scary, more so amazing, overwhelmingly incredible beyond understanding for those who have never experienced it.... the patterns that Yeshua plays out. When you become a part of the mind of Christ, when you surrender... @12:40 - @12:54 oh no. oh no no nonono... I've said these exact words. The exact same way. The feeling... falling into the mind of Christ, when HE moves through your mind...
Friend, if you are reading this... please be open to Jesus. Yeshua. God. It may not happen immediately. But have a modicum of faith. Hold it as long as you can. Your entire existence can and will be changed.
This reminds me of when someone came to Thoreau hoping for a deathbed conversion. "Do you want to make your peace with God?" "I don't know that we had quarreled," thoreau replied
Proverbs 22:6 “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
you have to love guys like this who think out of the billions and billions of
people on earth god specifically wants to talk to him personally with such bizarre signs
then they tell us how this crazy thing happened to them... not the other billions of people
going about their lives but to him.. words in thin air.. green lights in the sky.. arrows landing
next to him..give me a break... such nonsense
It's just embarrassing, isn't it?
“Earth's crammed with heaven,
And every common bush afire with God,
But only he who sees takes off his shoes;
The rest sit round and pluck blackberries.”
― Elizabeth Barrett Browning
That spiritual experience was giving me shivers of wonder. Thank you for sharing.
have you ever tried the traditional catholic latin mass?
Amazing when an intellectual finds the Truth in Christ Jesus, they relay their conversion story in an intellectual manner in such a way that we can understand clearly the way God , Jesus Christ connects to the people as well how it relates to the Bible.
He became born again without even reading the Bible.
Did her search the truth first, because per his story, Jesus Christ just showed up to him one day.
His story is so brief that we don't know the whole story leading to his conversion to Christ.
Thank you for this moving interview.
This dude is like the Robin Williams of Cristendom lol
Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet, not a god, who taught that the Kingdom of Heaven was about to arrive within the lifetimes of his followers, sweep away all the evil in the world and replace it with a perfect world free of suffering - for the righteous. He did not teach what his followers later had to believe, that you would die and go to Heaven if you believed in him because no Kingdon of Heaven had arrived as predicted. Or that he was actually God incarnate, perish the thought for an observant Jew. Gospels were written 35 to 55 years after Jesus' death and Christian belief had substantially altered by then. Though 'textual criticism', as it's called, can reconstruct the original message with a fair degree of accuracy. Christianity has it seriously wrong and thus, sadly, does Martin Shaw because he acts solely on instinct or so it seems.
This makes me so supremely depressed. Another druid lost.
You should try the number 1 pagan tradition- submitting to Rome.
Been a listener and reader of Martin for a while now. A gifted storyteller. Exciting to think how he could be used for the Kingdom. Encouraging news. Don't be too hard on the 'nice' churches. It is the biblical teaching firstly, then the fellowship that counts. The body of believers is the church. We shouldnt forgo that completely (not to say you are!) in favour of seeking the high-octane mystical side, as beautiful as that may be. I sympathise, but i've seen this become purely a cultural and aesthetic experience. This may also forfeit simply making melody to the LORD and singing Him songs together with fellow believers in a cold church and then having a parable unpacked for us that we then discuss afterwards over fairly decent coffee. (The tea however is a bit tepid, not brewed for nearly long enough!)
The exceedingly wonderful message of God’s redemption of sinful humanity through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ is often too great for words, though fathom's deep, beautiful, mysterious and continually enriching gets close, as Martin himself stated elsewhere.
God bless you Martin!
Your second paragraph defines the "high-octane mystical side" as well as any definition I have heard. "O taste and see, how good the Lord is." The certain faith of mystery....and truth.
@@EJanda i think the fact I can bend a knee and have an intimate conversation with the Creator of Heaven and Earth is deeply mysterious enough; not to mention a great, undeserved privilege! After repentence, that relationship to our Father is central. And that is available to all! Praise the Lord!
Truer words have never been spoken. Alleluia.
I don't know that we choose what we believe? Sounds like the mythologist is primed for that religious thinking from childhood.
I am atheist and I don't care what you believe unless it's causing harm to anyone.
I also want to say that if I could choose what I believe, of course I would choose to believe that I'm going to be reunited with my loved ones after death, and that there's somebody watching out for me always that loves me,it would be very comforting. I just think the time to believe an idea is when there is good evidence to support it and I just haven't seen it from any omnipotent being(thus far and still waiting).
I could get being a deist, but the Bible god or any other Abrahamic tradition would by definition of omniscient know what it would take for me to believe.
Answers In Genesis may be intellectually entertaining for you. Also, lectures/books by R.C. Sproul, founder of Ligonier Ministries. J.C. Ryle or Francis Schaeffer’s books, founder of L’Abri community in Switzerland. Christianity ultimately is a profoundly deep and loving relationship for your good and His glory and you have to Invite Him into your heart as well. inside that relationship, expressed with others who have found Him you understand and express in worship your humble state and highest joy. Look up is my best advise.❤
@@carolynenochs9139 AIG is all apologies I've seen it, but thank you. I would recommend: "Paulogia" channel they cover AIG and more!
What you said secondly sounds like you're saying that before you can *believe* you need to **believe**. That's a bit circular for me. I'm fine not believing in many fantastic things like Harry Potter or something at least there's not eternal torture for not being shown something that the god that made you(allegedly) knew you weren't going to be convinced by. God is all knowing right, so it follows that they knew that I would not be convinced they knew that nothing they showed me or any of the believers or text would be convincing and they don't offer anything to compensate. This is usually when I get called arrogant for wanting evidence. I truly don't care if you believe whatever you want as long as it's not hurting anybody else but for me I'd rather believe in things that have evidence to support them.
@@Bostonceltics1369 there is evidence though. You have merely made your choice. You are an atheist without giving much in the way of evidence to support such a claim. You deny the evidence given for believing in Jesus Christ for example, or simply that there is a God. That is your decision. And act of freewill.
What you mean to say i think is that there is no 'proof'. Well OK - now we can talk.
Christianity is not a doctrine but a relationship, and no relationship is ever built upon proof. I base the fact my wife will not strangle me in the night based on the evidence of her character. I couldn't prove she would not strangle me. And so it is with the Lord. Look to the evidence. Examine the Gospels with a scalpel. Be fastidious. Be open, be humble. Don't allow the devil to blind you with arrogance and pride. He seeks to devour you. He hates you. Our Heavenly Father however loves you and wants none to perish. Ask Him to open the eye of your heart and He will!
@@Bostonceltics1369 Do you believe reality is local?
@@sammavitae114 and global or universal as far as we can observe.
bless you martin, for your vulnerability + honesty, your willingness to Be the smashed-up temple! i hear that loud + clear. with you on this journey
Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace
Yahwism: the Uncountable
Is the Yahweh and Leviathan in the Ugaritic texts?
In 1 Kings 22:19-22 we read of the Yahweh meeting with his heavenly council. This is the very description of heaven which one finds in the Ugaritic texts. For in those texts the sons of god are the sons of El. Other deities worshipped at Ugarit were El Shaddai, El Elyon, and El Berith.
Yam, also known as Ym and Yaw (YHW), is the Ugaritic god of rivers and the sea. Also known as Judge Nahar ("Judge River"), he is also one of the Elohim or sons of El, the name given to the Levantine pantheon. Others dispute the existence of the alternative names, claiming it is a mistranslation of a damaged tablet. Despite linguistic overlap, theologically this god is not a part of the later sub regional monotheistic theology, but rather is part of a broader Levantine polytheism.
He is also known from Egyptian sources, which present him as an enemy of Set (at the time viewed as a heroic slayer of monsters and similar to Levantine and Anatolian weather gods).
Yam is the deity of primordial chaos and represents the power of the sea, untamed and raging; he is seen as ruling storms and the disasters they wreak.
The seven-headed dragon Lotan is associated closely with him and the serpent is frequently used to describe him. Despite his antagonistic role in myths, Ym was sometimes invoked in theophoric names, indicating some degree of cult, which sets him apart from another similar figure, Tiamat.
As Ym's myth is generally believed to be older than the Enuma Elish, it's possible Tiamat was partially patterned after him.
Of all the gods, despite being the champion of El, Ym holds special hostility against Baal Hadad, son of Dagon (or El). Ym is a deity of the sea and his palace is in the abyss associated with the depths, or Biblical tehwom, of the oceans. (This is not to be confused with the abode of Mot, the ruler of the netherworld.)
In Ugaritic texts, Ym's special enemy Hadad is also known as the "king of heaven" and the "first born son" of El, whom ancient Greeks identified with their god Cronus, just as Baal was identified with Zeus, Yam with Poseidon and Mot with Hades.
While Baal Hadad was the lead god in Ugarit, in the Baal cycle it is Ym who is favored by El, and he even briefly rules over the other gods. Baal only rises to power after vanquishing him with the help of his allies Kothar-wa-Khasis, Astarte and Anat.
Yam's ultimate fate is unclear, as the text makes references to both death and captivity, and in later sections of the myth Baal talks about Yam as if he was still alive and a possible threat.
While in the past researchers, especially those belonging to the myth-ritual tradition, interpreted the myths of Baal, Ym and Mot as a representation of the cycle of seasons and thus related to fertility rites, this view is challenged in more recent scholarship as incorrect or simplistic.
His name comes from the Canaanite (Israelite) word Yam, meaning "Sea."
I love the analogy Lovely Martin makes about himself being like the temple that JESUS broke up, where there are certain rooms within his temple (body), that he doesn't want JESUS to go into....and break up, because he (Martin) hadn't surrendered them to him.
I can totally relate to this,
as I too definitely went through a conversion experience during lockdown too, where I went more deeply into my Catholic Faith, and started to, by the GRACE OF GOD, write wonderful inspiring words down. Thank You Martin for sharing your Conversion Experience. And Justin for this Lovely interview.
GOD Bless Everyone. 🤗❤️🤗💒🙏
Having met Jesus, Shaw’s thoughts and experiences resonate with me. It has been difficult for me to contemplate my experience so hearing others thoughts is helpful as we all have very similar feelings.
This reminds me of when someone came to Thoreau hoping for a deathbed conversion. "Do you want to make your peace with God?" "I don't know that we had quarreled," thoreau replied
Good to see the prayers of his family answed for the Glory of God.
The Holy Spirit doesn't gently walk in and brew tea while chatting with us.
Like a stormy ocean's wave, he crashes in and wipes away our sandcastles.
I'm so thankful that I took the time to listen to this.
I can really relate to this on a couple of levels. Once you have an experience of God revealing Himself like that, you can't shake that He's a personal being, and He wants a relationship. Paganism becomes to wild, Buddhism too empty, and the institutional church too much of a graveyard.
As an Animist/Ecopagan, who very much has resonated with Shaw's earlier work over the past 20 years in that milieu , i am fascinated with the idea of someone "wired" like him, having a genuine conversion to Orthodox Christianity.
I look forward to listening to this in full.
Matt 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Why do people call Jesus, "God"... when He said, "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but to Him who sent me." ~Jesus (John 5:30)
What a deeply beautiful and powerful witness. This touched me profoundly!
This is how GOD works. You can’t see The Holy Spirit but you can see and feel the affects of Him working. Thank You
u are welcome linda,Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace
How have his fellow mythologist and mythvision buddies responded? I guessing they have tossed him overboard and denounced him.
Absolutely love where he's coming from, especially the sense that Christianity, especially in America, has been domesticated, tamed, watered down and flattened out. We need to reconnect to the deep traditions of wildmen, mystics, and Jesuit "soldiers for Christ" (sans weapons, except spiritual ones). Becoming a follower of Jesus starts at baptism. It doesn't end there.
At least that's the best I can see as of today. I pray God will show me more tomorrow.
fucking hell (excuse my language) that is just the most moving visceral thing i've ever heard thank youououoou
Very interesting conversation. I have walked a bery similar path and i hope this is the future of Christianity in the Anglo Saxon world.
Hmmm . I don't know what to make of this. This " i want to be of service" stuff just does not sound like morality to me. I don't trust people who talk like this. Who cares if you - if I - want to be of service? I don't think courage sounds like this. Now, it may be that I am the moron here, but I am loosing respect for somebody here. This all just seems a bit off planet to me. People after us will not wonder if jesus loved us or not but why we did not give a shit about them . All I can say is that i can not admire this.
Praise be to Lord Jesus Christ 😊😊
So profound and so resonant. Especially the analogy of the temple. God bless you
I love Martin Shaw.
You might want to read John Wimber's books..
He’s following the “Great Galilee Druid..”. ?
Great conversation! Thank you for curating this.
Fascinating…….. going through something similar myself having followed the thread back through Protestantism and Catholicism to Orthodox Christianity.
I don’t think they accept meditation and visions due to fear about who they come from though so there is the rub for me…….. and them.
Interestingly, Rudolf Steiner and Karl Konig posited we would all need to be our own teachers, doctors and priests by the end of the 20th Century…………….
and given what is going on around us that appears correct………..
PS Great interview. Thank you.
Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace
Wonderful watch and listen. God be with us all.
There is nothing more inspiring than a man foresaking it all to follow the truth.
Fascinating and witty 🧐 much obliged 🫡🤣