Braking in The Turn Explained
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
- Braking in the turn is one of the first things you'll learn when you come to Team O'Neil for a rally school. We use this technique to transfer weight from of the rear end of the car to the front end of the car to cure understeer and create oversteer. Team O'Neil chief operations officer, Travis Hanson, takes to the skidpad to demonstrate braking in the turn and talk about why we use it for loose surface driving.
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Wow one of the best lessons on this subject I've ever seen. Bring this guy (Travis) back for more demonstrations!
This technique actually helped me out once where I was at a roundabout in heavy rain ( just started, surface was suddenly wet) and I was about to understeer into a field (I was alone as well, came in a bit too hot for my tyres back then).
Also I once trained that in my first car on a friend's private property (in rain as well, 105hp, 1000kilos, 185s all around, hydraulic steering+ only ABS can be a riot), it's fun and it teaches you car control. I recommend everyone tries this in a safe environment
I dont think it was braking which helped, brakes doesn't work when its water slide, you were just lucky to get that grip back.
@@jjeeqq had that situation not just once, couldn't have been luck, especially when I practiced it (I did that in heavy rain)
It also wasn't aquaplaning 😅
I dont see how it would work if there is no contact between tires and road
@@jjeeqq there is.
Aquaplaning is if you don't have contact and are just swimming.
A wet road isn't that 😅
@@DatPenguin97 i don't think you had speed to get to aquaplaining then if tires had contact with road. When aquaplaining happens tires get off ground and above water, any pedal or wheel turning at that point is extreme dangerous, when you get grip again.
"Aquaplaning, or hydroplaning, is what happens when water builds up in front of your tyres at a faster rate than it can be displaced. When this happens, water forms a barrier between the tread of the tyre and the road, leaving the vehicle unresponsive to steering, braking, or accelerating."
Wooohooo keep up the great stuff guys! Appreciate yall so much!!
finaly, found the video i was looking for. practically nobody showed this method. thanks team o' neal
My name is Sajan Paul Jose.Iam a 15 yrs old. Regular Spectator of your videos
Great exercise & lesson...loved it during my winter driving class, on snow, but mostly ice...fun & highly instructive.
That was some awesome knowledge transfer, you guys are great!
I like this guy. Great teacher, and great demonstration. Kept all other variables out and demonstrated the one thing we were changing independently. Great stuff.
Where is Wyatt
Very useful on asphalt mountain passes too.
awesome explanation
"It's amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula One level, think that the brakes are for slowing the car down."
They are for braking🤡
@@SpeedProductions4 He meant that brakes are often used to just slow down but their are other use cases
You can use a sort of combination of this and trailbraking to really nail the braking down to the last millisecond on extremely sharp corners by using this to do the last bit of slowing down and also to rotate the car simultaneously
This seems like a pretty advanced technique. It’s pretty much the opposite of the basics most people are taught. Like trailbraking, the wrong application of this could overtax the front tires and end up with understeer. Don’t go trying this unless you have a good understanding and ability to weight transfer.
Yea, brakes taking away lateral grip+too much steering input under panic is gonna make the slip angle get outta hand. I hate that dreaded sound of front outer tire dragging...
I like to use it with quick, short taps, to make the head turn in.
I think once you have mastered throttle and brake control well then this is usable and certainly worth trying in a safe environment. If someone has never done this before they aren’t gonna go enter a rally then try it for the first time.
Also, the throttle application is important here and helps fight the understeer, because it doesn’t let the wheels lock up as easily since they are driven. So it ends up with kinda the same effect as handbrake where the rear loses grip but the front keeps it. Ime if you do enough throttle you don’t even have to worry about understeer.
Edit: obviously this is in a fwd car
I'm glad to see people are finally warming to other people besides Wyatt 😂 all the other guys have been great too - this guy Travis is really good and I remember him from some older vids
I confused this technique with breaking in the turn which is what my old tie rods did when I gave this a whirl on the asphalt in my old Mercedes
hi i have a couple of questions
is this technique useful for 4WD cars? i can imagine that transfer to the front would still be helpful, but not sure
if you lock up the rear tires, wouldn't that mean you're completely slipping the clutch?
Its so crazy how different pavement is to dirt. Really crazy.
Hi Travis. Do your Fiestas have the factory standard "crossover" brake line set up? From memory, everything is "factory" except the brake pads. One would assume a brake bias system would give you better control when braking in the turn?
In terms of braking , our Fiestas are fully stock except we remove the power brake system and throw in some Hawk brake pads. An adjustable brake bias would certainly allow you to choose between different behaviors under braking. We like to keep our cars close to stock for added training value but certainly on a full on stage rally build a brake bias switch can be very useful.
what about steering angle when car starts to oversteer? u need to countersteer or fornt tires pull you straight? Also, is a technique that can be used on a gripped surface? road/track/ashpalt?
Depends on much the car starts to slide... If you have a lot of oversteer then absolutely counter steer as much as you need. However, if you only have a little bit of oversteer, straightening the wheel and releasing the brake (maybe adding some more throttle depending on the vehicle type) is enough of a weight transfer to the rear of the car to cause the car to straighten up.
Your channel can grow big if you do car review's by putting them on the rally stage .
You ca use this ate any car? I mean on a fwd, for exemple, i wold be helpfull?
Braking in the turn does work in all vehicle types, provided you are on a loose surface and going the right speed for the corner. It is a good technique to use in a front or all wheel drive car, we typically use other braking techniques in rear wheel drive and high center of gravity vehicles but it does work in those as well. There are slight variations in the technique for different vehicle types. In a front wheel drive car, you use steady throttle while you turn the wheel and add brake pressure. In other vehicle configurations, you would lift off the gas then turn and add brake.
Does this technique also work for rear wheel drive?
yes
It does but we typically don't do it a lot in rear wheel drive vehicles in favor of other braking techniques such as trail braking. We use it a lot more in front and all wheel drive platforms.
How about rear wheel drive car?
It does work in rear wheel drive but we don't typically do it because other techniques such as trail braking usually work much better in these vehicles. Braking in the turn is used more frequently in front and all wheel drive vehicles.
turn on subtitles
Question: is there an easy way to remember which is which (under and over steer)
Understeer is basically when the car is going outside despite you wanting to go inside. Oversteer is vise versa
If you ask the car to do a certain amount of steering (by turning the steering wheel) and it delivers under that target (as in less than asked for) it is understeering. If the car delivers more steering than asked for, or over the target, it is oversteering. Easy :)
understeer= car turns less than you steered for, oversteer = car turns more than you steered for
Understeer - Car goes straight outta corner
Oversteer - Car spins out
Thanks guys 🧐. now what's everybody driving?
Can you teach drifting
We have some drift content! Please feel free to check it out, hope you enjoy!
Handbrake initiation: ruclips.net/video/n0JtgPPYTWM/видео.html
Clutch kicking: ruclips.net/video/X-aAF31IitM/видео.html
@@Teamoneilrally Pendulum turn too! ruclips.net/video/f5IBdsL_KTI/видео.html
I always thought this was trail braking 🤦♂️
Stop it with the bicycle helmets
So... Adding load to front tires that are pushing because they're already overloaded fixes the problem? lmao. It's a fwd car... The engine is pushing through the front brakes and you're doing the same thing as tugging the handbrake, just with you feet
Braking in the turn serves a different purpose than a handbrake turn. A hand brake turn causes the car to rotate because the of the loss of grip at rear from the rear wheels locking up. Braking in the turn rotates the car using weight transfer. The understeer is caused by the traction circle of the front tires being overwhelmed by the inputs. By adding brake pressure, it transfers weight off the rear and onto the front which compresses the front suspension and pushes down on the front tires. This expands the contact patch of the front tires and gives them more grip allowing the car to rotate.
@@Teamoneilrally So would you say that fr and mr cars will rotate the same in the same situation?
@@mikaelgaiason688 There is an old video about left foot braking, they use all kinds, awd rwd fwd it always works.