@Augustdelagrange Well she isnt going to answer of them , the same as beverly allet didnt , or that victor chou did not or none of these kinda of people. Its all about control because its all they have.
Yes, she's a coward. Lucy should have faced the verdict in person. Now she's on suicide watch, when the innocent babies she harmed were not protected from Lucy.
Should Lucy Letby have been dragged to court to face sentencing today - YES. Should the senior staff who appeared to have protected her early on be sacked - YES.
Should Talk TV and other media grow up a bit, evolve and look a bit more soberly and deeply at the issues, rather than puerile headlines that belong in the 70s Daily Star ? Or band words around like 'evil' etc, as if it is the 1600s, with headlines in bold such as FURIOUS and CLASH which are totally inappropriate for such an event and topic? Definitely. No wonder there is no debate really of substance on virtually every important topic, when it is just fodder for idiotic headlines or titles like that. Is everyone meant to mirror that low level way of looking at things ? No objective reasoning whatsoever ? Maintain total ignorance about how and why such things happen ? Should society in general address the dysfunctionality that allows such things to happen ?
There are no protocols that requires written statements about suspicious facts someone could report to the management? Otherwise managers could deny that someone had verbally put out some informations. And if there are written documents of the warnings to the management, and they didn't act properly...why after more than 5 years they weren't bring to court?
Its quite common for management to behave this way within the NHS. I've seen it over the 40 yrs I worked for that organisation. They need to over haul it!!!!
Having worked in Theatres and ICU for over 20 Years ... I can confirm that this is correct, and has been going on for a very long time. "Managers" (of which there are far too many) ... are more concerned about having to deal with "grievance procedures" from Staff and their Unions, rather than seriously investigating actual issues. And that is exactly what happened here. Often, a totally incompetent, or malicious member of staff's behaviour will be put down to a "training issue" ... and they will be "reassigned" ... not sacked.
I agree, I too worked for NHS for 40 yrs and too often I saw management ignore issues that staff expressed to them. The management became to powerful and worked to their own agenda. They couldn't be bothered doing their job which wad presious little. Ignoring members of staff who had far more knowledge and qualifications than they did. They need to thin down the management. Far too many in so called created jobs to do WHAT????? Sit in an office?? And the salaries they are on???????
Managers should be in the Dock straight after her. They are to blame for favouring the cover up culture. They just protect their own name and pensions, they should lose the lot.
They gave her carte Blanche to carry on murdering more children. It’s absolute tosh that you could not have moved this woman away from murdering babies. You’d have seen the murders drop as soon as she wasn’t working on it. Ward managers and doctors should be sacked These cases are not rare. Beverley Allitt anyone? She was left to kill children on that ward too. Many babies could have been saved if this very simple act was carried out.
It would appear that this terrible case is highlighting many problems within the NHS which has been going downhill for years. Unfortunately the many dedicated nurses and doctors will also get unjustified negative remarks for the incompetence of some of their work colleagues.
How abhorrent to use this case (and exploit the murder of babies) as anti-NHS propaganda. For every Lucy Letby there are a million amazing nurses and healthcare workers who sacrifice and work so hard to care for people! It’s not easy work and it’s not well paid either, but they do it!
I know all about the amazing nurses and healthcare workers my girlfriend works in a care home my mum is a retired nurse. Nobody thinks bad of doctors and nurses but we do need to use this case to rightly attack NHS managers. Many doctors and nurses themselves want this exposed and they are glad it is being discussed. Its keeping quiet that has got us here in the first place
Harold Shipman, Beverly Allit. The Bristol heart scandal the list goes on ! There's a problem in the NHS and they don't like criticism like you are proving . Two of the top killers in this country were NHS workers .
‘Lessons will be learned’ how often does that saying pop up after every social cockup! ….but the outcome? Lessons are never learned and it happens again and again. Make management actually accountable, instead of giving them fat wage rises and bonuses, sack them!!!
I m a retired nurse having trained in the NHS . I moved tonAustralia 30+ years but try to go visit every 2 years. I used to tell people I trained in nhs as I was very proud of it but I don’t tell anybody. It breaks my heart to see what’s happened to the health system in the uk. What happened to teams supporting to supporting each other and standards of care? My mum had a hip replacement recently and I got my eyes opened. The lady in the next bed had vomited and when her daughter asked a nurse for help to clean her up the nurse said” I’m not doing that, I’ve got a degree”. I was shocked. Whatever happened to teamwork and duty of care? We were trained that no matter what our position was to pull up our sleeves when necessary and get our hands dirty .There was no other nurse around. This behaviour would have been disciplined in my day. Also I believe that any manager needs an professional understanding of the purpose of the team being managed. Not someone with only a management degree and no industry experience and track record.
Christine I was the Head of nursing at a big London hospital in the late 80's. Our "management team" consisted of 3 consultants, an administrator and myself. I was invited to a reunion of staff in the latter part of the 90s and there were (l was reliably informed) more than 50 people I'm senior/junior management positions covering what we were doing. Laughable! And the doctors no longer in charge of decisions! Despicable! Now retired living in the Philippines- NHS should be disbanded as it stands
I hear you! But now there are so many radical changes needed and the behaviours are so entrenched it’s going to be a monumental task and I don’t see ANYONE with the necessary skills or guts that the job will clearly require. Recent events are not exactly an advert for th3 NHS plus given the current of the country at the moment are going to compound the staffing problem.@@johnevans191
I dont believe a nurse would say: " I am not doing that I have a degree" . I believe though that she may said that she isn't doing herself but will get a hca to do it.
This situation is not just associated with the NHS. It goes on in all Care Organizations caring for vulnerable people, LD's and Elderly. Probably also in Homes supporting young people.
Obviously the medication cabinet is not always an issue. This nurse knew other methods that might be more difficult to detect. The doctor that performed the autopsies is excellent and found why these babies died.
It is alarming that staff seem to have a "God complex" in the NHS. Our lives are literally in their hands. Beverly Allett, Harold Shipman and now Lucy Latby. How many others? I had personal experience of my life being threatened by a member of staff after breaking a leg.
@danswhite8544 I was lying Helpless in a bed in absolute agony when I got told to stop creating a fuss, and to remember that they could do whatever they liked to me and no one else would ever know. I was totally helpless and defenceless at a hospital in North London. It was in the early morning, about 2-3am. I am now over 70 and dread going into any hospital for any lengthy period of time.
Exactly what happens as an organisations grows. Protectionism within its ranks grows with it. The NHS, as one of the biggest employers on the planet, is riddled with malpractice.
I watched something lastnight where people could ring in and discuss. A woman called in and made the demise of babies at the hand of white woman about racism. I mean seriously!🤦🏼♀️
This is the most disturbing case I've ever heard. What a sick individual she is. Its very upsetting and my heart bleeds for all the victims. Heads should roll too. Disgusting.
One of the problems with career progression in NHS is they don’t recruit people good at managing. They promote people who are good at their practical jobs as if that’s the same thing.
Type in ,the travesty of lucy letby verdicts then scroll down to where it says fabulous website , theres more to this case than meets main stream media eye
Managers must be trained to cover up, NHS, education, police, list is endless. And they all have a whistle blowing policy , but they really don't want u to use it 😂
There are no protocols that require written statements about suspicious facts someone could report to the management? Otherwise managers could deny that someone had verbally put out some informations. And if there are written documents of the warnings to the management, and they didn't act properly...why, after more than 5 years, the management wasn't bring to court?
What a difference a year makes! It has become apparent to most people that Lucy is innocent and there were no murders at the CoCH. The babies Lucy was supposed to have murdered had post mortems and were found to have died from natural causes.
What a despicable being inhuman, definitely need to understand how someone could get away with this for so long and safeguarding failed so terribly! I can't even be allowed alone with a child and I work in IT.
this is the type of thing the general public would back protestor,s, if they protested about this nurse having a choice to not attend court, (she shouldn,t have a choice) where is just stop oil protester,s when something like this happens,
Pension reduced by half is appropriate. The taxpayer is paying people who are not fit for purpose. If they're doing a half a job, a half pension is appropriate. A body "quango" to oversee NHS management will cost the public even more money and be crammed with shoo-ins, ex-politicians or political supporters, the see anything for an easy but fruitful life types
"Lesson's should be learned, Lesson's should be learned, Lesson's should be learned " and so on and so forth, blaaahhhh, blaaahhhh, f..king blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!😢
If these so called "hero" whistle blowing professionals were so sure of what was happening, why were they so quick to write apology letters? They too should be held to account
This is about the protection of employees without any bother for what’s going on. All to often accusations of bullying are used by unproductive, negligent and here, a murderer, to divert attention from their behavior. The attitude with this in the UK and certainly in the public sector, needs to be addressed. Including in the home office.
Should Lucy Letby have been dragged to court to face sentencing today?
Absolutely. Should be like that scene in clockwork orange , eyes pinned open , handcuffed behind her back. Facing the judge
@@paulcullum517 great analogy
@Augustdelagrange Well she isnt going to answer of them , the same as beverly allet didnt , or that victor chou did not or none of these kinda of people. Its all about control because its all they have.
100%!
Yes, she's a coward. Lucy should have faced the verdict in person. Now she's on suicide watch, when the innocent babies she harmed were not protected from Lucy.
Should Lucy Letby have been dragged to court to face sentencing today - YES. Should the senior staff who appeared to have protected her early on be sacked - YES.
The senior manager should also be in jail with her. There has to be some degree of accountability.
Should Talk TV and other media grow up a bit, evolve and look a bit more soberly and deeply at the issues, rather than puerile headlines that belong in the 70s Daily Star ? Or band words around like 'evil' etc, as if it is the 1600s, with headlines in bold such as FURIOUS and CLASH which are totally inappropriate for such an event and topic? Definitely.
No wonder there is no debate really of substance on virtually every important topic, when it is just fodder for idiotic headlines or titles like that. Is everyone meant to mirror that low level way of looking at things ? No objective reasoning whatsoever ? Maintain total ignorance about how and why such things happen ?
Should society in general address the dysfunctionality that allows such things to happen ?
There are no protocols that requires written statements about suspicious facts someone could report to the management? Otherwise managers could deny that someone had verbally put out some informations. And if there are written documents of the warnings to the management, and they didn't act properly...why after more than 5 years they weren't bring to court?
Sacked! Just for a start then arrested for cooperate manslaughter
Are they not even sacked f-in evil. They should be sacked ffs
The whole management department needs to be fired.
No, they need to be much worse than fired, they need to be prosecuted and lose everything!!! 😤
Its quite common for management to behave this way within the NHS.
I've seen it over the 40 yrs I worked for that organisation.
They need to over haul it!!!!
All the Management involved need
to be in attendance at an official inquiry and made to give evidence under OATH!
They are evil they will lie under oath they are demonic psychopathic narcissists too they do not care about god morals ethics etc
Having worked in Theatres and ICU for over 20 Years ... I can confirm that this is correct, and has been going on for a very long time.
"Managers" (of which there are far too many) ... are more concerned about having to deal with "grievance procedures" from Staff and their Unions, rather than seriously investigating actual issues.
And that is exactly what happened here. Often, a totally incompetent, or malicious member of staff's behaviour will be put down to a "training issue" ... and they will be "reassigned" ... not sacked.
I agree, I too worked for NHS for 40 yrs and too often I saw management ignore issues that staff expressed to them.
The management became to powerful and worked to their own agenda.
They couldn't be bothered doing their job which wad presious little.
Ignoring members of staff who had far more knowledge and qualifications than they did.
They need to thin down the management.
Far too many in so called created jobs to do WHAT????? Sit in an office??
And the salaries they are on???????
Scandal after scandal. Its becoming a total cesspit.
The manager who retired to France should be dragged through the coals.
I can't believe that we don't have a system in the NHS where management aren't held responsible for their actions this is madness
NHS managers come from outside the organisation, they are focused on a business plan and patients are not a priority.
Managers should be in the Dock straight after her. They are to blame for favouring the cover up culture. They just protect their own name and pensions, they should lose the lot.
*Many alarms completely disregarded by management*
And the managers have faced ZERO consequences and taken ZERO accountability.
@@JupiterThunder💯 they are evil too.
@@JupiterThunder Exaactly … well said sir ..
The higher ups never get punished.
They gave her carte Blanche to carry on murdering more children.
It’s absolute tosh that you could not have moved this woman away from murdering babies. You’d have seen the murders drop as soon as she wasn’t working on it.
Ward managers and doctors should be sacked
These cases are not rare. Beverley Allitt anyone? She was left to kill children on that ward too. Many babies could have been saved if this very simple act was carried out.
Bring the management to account.
They should be dragged into court to explain why the consistently ignored members of staff who raised issues.
It would appear that this terrible case is highlighting many problems within the NHS which has been going downhill for years. Unfortunately the many dedicated nurses and doctors will also get unjustified negative remarks for the incompetence of some of their work colleagues.
How abhorrent to use this case (and exploit the murder of babies) as anti-NHS propaganda. For every Lucy Letby there are a million amazing nurses and healthcare workers who sacrifice and work so hard to care for people! It’s not easy work and it’s not well paid either, but they do it!
I know all about the amazing nurses and healthcare workers my girlfriend works in a care home my mum is a retired nurse. Nobody thinks bad of doctors and nurses but we do need to use this case to rightly attack NHS managers. Many doctors and nurses themselves want this exposed and they are glad it is being discussed. Its keeping quiet that has got us here in the first place
Harold Shipman, Beverly Allit. The Bristol heart scandal the list goes on !
There's a problem in the NHS and they don't like criticism like you are proving .
Two of the top killers in this country were NHS workers .
You are the reason the NHS never learns from its past. "Let's all not criticise the NHS " look where your attitude keeps bringing us .
blame should fall onto the tories for the cuts they made.
@@DraniCondon yes Tories told the hospital to hide it from police . 🤡
‘Lessons will be learned’ how often does that saying pop up after every social cockup! ….but the outcome? Lessons are never learned and it happens again and again. Make management actually accountable, instead of giving them fat wage rises and bonuses, sack them!!!
I m a retired nurse having trained in the NHS . I moved tonAustralia 30+ years but try to go visit every 2 years. I used to tell people I trained in nhs as I was very proud of it but I don’t tell anybody. It breaks my heart to see what’s happened to the health system in the uk. What happened to teams supporting to supporting each other and standards of care?
My mum had a hip replacement recently and I got my eyes opened. The lady in the next bed had vomited and when her daughter asked a nurse for help to clean her up the nurse said” I’m not doing that, I’ve got a degree”. I was shocked. Whatever happened to teamwork and duty of care? We were trained that no matter what our position was to pull up our sleeves when necessary and get our hands dirty .There was no other nurse around. This behaviour would have been disciplined in my day.
Also I believe that any manager needs an professional understanding of the purpose of the team being managed. Not someone with only a management degree and no industry experience and track record.
Christine
I was the Head of nursing at a big London hospital in the late 80's. Our "management team" consisted of 3 consultants, an administrator and myself.
I was invited to a reunion of staff in the latter part of the 90s and there were (l was reliably informed) more than 50 people I'm senior/junior management positions covering what we were doing. Laughable! And the doctors no longer in charge of decisions! Despicable!
Now retired living in the Philippines- NHS should be disbanded as it stands
I hear you! But now there are so many radical changes needed and the behaviours are so entrenched it’s going to be a monumental task and I don’t see ANYONE with the necessary skills or guts that the job will clearly require.
Recent events are not exactly an advert for th3 NHS plus given the current of the country at the moment are going to compound the staffing problem.@@johnevans191
Didn't think this woman's daughter to film the nurse's reaction?
I dont believe a nurse would say: " I am not doing that I have a degree" . I believe though that she may said that she isn't doing herself but will get a hca to do it.
This situation is not just associated with the NHS. It goes on in all Care Organizations caring for vulnerable people, LD's and Elderly. Probably also in Homes supporting young people.
Obviously the medication cabinet is not always an issue. This nurse knew other methods that might be more difficult to detect. The doctor that performed the autopsies is excellent and found why these babies died.
It is alarming that staff seem to have a "God complex" in the NHS. Our lives are literally in their hands. Beverly Allett, Harold Shipman and now Lucy Latby. How many others? I had personal experience of my life being threatened by a member of staff after breaking a leg.
@danswhite8544 I was lying Helpless in a bed in absolute agony when I got told to stop creating a fuss, and to remember that they could do whatever they liked to me and no one else would ever know. I was totally helpless and defenceless
at a hospital in North London. It was in the early morning, about 2-3am. I am now over 70 and dread going into any hospital for any lengthy period of time.
Exactly what happens as an organisations grows. Protectionism within its ranks grows with it. The NHS, as one of the biggest employers on the planet, is riddled with malpractice.
Or rather when healthcare is less about healthcare and more about business, profit and shareholders.
You can lose your job for saying men can’t have babies but there are no consequences for ignoring the murder of babies???
That sums up the NHS, Police and most MPs
@danswhite8544 Jordan Peterson?
“Management need to be accountable to doctors. Management need to be accountable to patients. Not the other way around”
Lessons from Beverly Allet clearly weren't learned and neither will any lessons from this.
I watched something lastnight where people could ring in and discuss. A woman called in and made the demise of babies at the hand of white woman about racism. I mean seriously!🤦🏼♀️
Tony Chambers CEO and Lucy Letby. A match made in Hell
Will anything change?? I think not..
This is the most disturbing case I've ever heard. What a sick individual she is. Its very upsetting and my heart bleeds for all the victims. Heads should roll too. Disgusting.
One of the problems with career progression in NHS is they don’t recruit people good at managing. They promote people who are good at their practical jobs as if that’s the same thing.
Everybody (management including) need to be held accountable and there needs to be serious consequences
Type in ,the travesty of lucy letby verdicts then scroll down to where it says fabulous website , theres more to this case than meets main stream media eye
She is labelled as an “Angel” and not a witch?
Managers must be trained to cover up, NHS, education, police, list is endless. And they all have a whistle blowing policy , but they really don't want u to use it 😂
There are no protocols that require written statements about suspicious facts someone could report to the management? Otherwise managers could deny that someone had verbally put out some informations. And if there are written documents of the warnings to the management, and they didn't act properly...why, after more than 5 years, the management wasn't bring to court?
What a difference a year makes! It has become apparent to most people that Lucy is innocent and there were no murders at the CoCH. The babies Lucy was supposed to have murdered had post mortems and were found to have died from natural causes.
What a despicable being inhuman, definitely need to understand how someone could get away with this for so long and safeguarding failed so terribly! I can't even be allowed alone with a child and I work in IT.
Why do killers who know there never getting out, never say why they decided to do these crimes ??
He’s hit the nail on the head.
The Dr is right!
Good grief, disgusting.
The English language doesn’t have an appropriate adjective for how utterly vulgar this whole situation is.
Do not use the word ANGEL
this is the type of thing the general public would back protestor,s, if they protested about this nurse having a choice to not attend court, (she shouldn,t have a choice) where is just stop oil protester,s when something like this happens,
Pension reduced by half is appropriate. The taxpayer is paying people who are not fit for purpose. If they're doing a half a job, a half pension is appropriate. A body "quango" to oversee NHS management will cost the public even more money and be crammed with shoo-ins, ex-politicians or political supporters, the see anything for an easy but fruitful life types
"Lesson's should be learned, Lesson's should be learned, Lesson's should be learned " and so on and so forth, blaaahhhh, blaaahhhh, f..king blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!😢
Evidence based on I'm evil...???
She is a dead ringer for Gemma whelan the TV actress.
If these so called "hero" whistle blowing professionals were so sure of what was happening, why were they so quick to write apology letters? They too should be held to account
I don't believe she is guilty! Cot deaths!
Dont be stupid.
You're mad....
Regulatory body?Just what's needed - more bureaucracy.
Poor woman. I hope she gets released soon. The case in almost entirely based on circumstantial evidence with no definitive proof.
Grow up and do some research
He’s right - nothing ever changes
This is about the protection of employees without any bother for what’s going on. All to often accusations of bullying are used by unproductive, negligent and here, a murderer, to divert attention from their behavior. The attitude with this in the UK and certainly in the public sector, needs to be addressed. Including in the home office.