In Australia we use a tiny amount of dry nitrogen inside the copper pipe to stop scale. We also use brown tip solder. No need for flux or that type of solder at all unless joining two different metals (brass to copper for example). That flame... well i guess it speaks for itself......
Thomas Woodlock we use same nitrogen technique here in states too... well the guys that know what their doing... in my opinion, this guy here is way off about so many things...
As a pathetic novice at plumbing, I attempted to make a new routing of piping from my house entry to a water softener. The main line coming in was 1" copper so I went with that. It was a nightmare. I had a map-gas torch from home depot and a bit of water/steam in the line. I tried the bread trick to hold off water. I tried everything, then finally I called a 24hour plumber here in Phoenix and the guy came out middle of the night. He gave me a serious discount saying I had everything done well, just not enough heat. The guy was awesome! That torch you have and some experience would have helped. Great video.
I've done lots of soldering using either a propane or butane torch, with paste flux and regular old plumbing solder, and I've learnt that too much flux does a couple of things. Firstly, you can't actually see your joint very well, so you can't be sure that you've got that full capillary action. Secondly, it can leak later on, by forming little holes in the inside of your pipe. (I'm not one hundred percent sure about that second part, so someone else will probably explain it better). I find that applying similar principles as the ones used in oxy fuel brazing gives good results. Too much powdered flux on an oxy fuel braze just gets in the way and you can't see your solder getting into the joint properly. The Tig brazing part was informative though, and I enjoyed that. I just feel that TIG brazing is explained much better by some other folks, such as This Old Tony.
Well there is such a thing as too much flux. There is really no point in getting flux on the outside of that coupler, it only needs to prep the metal where the solder will go: inside the joint. Remember you absolutely have to clean any residual flux off your pipework because it will keep eating away at it.
there is a unknown element here of thermal transfer. The molten salt flux conducts heat rather well. I am not saying that there is a point to doing it but it does do something more then just dirty up the part. And if you have flux above the part, while you are brazing it will melt and pour over the braze cleaning it, depending on the speed of the braze. Alot happens but it might amounts to nothing. But I find it interesting since nuclear reactors use molten salt for cooling. Kinda think it spreads the heat out more since if there is alot of flux it will absorb heat and drip away, seems hard to harness usefulness in excess.
I really like your MIG demos. Soldering? Not so much, lots of misinformation about soldering and not so great technique. By way of qualifying my statement, I have nearly 30 years experience in soldering in commercial manufacturing applications.
You would be better off using the torch to braze it than weld it. Also if you had a little more heat to the pipe with tig it will flow. I weld copper directly and with phosphorus bronze all the time. Dropping the hot copper in water cleans it as well.
Something nobody caught: watch his "TIG Brazing" again, and pay particular attention to the edge of the female part. It is melting away as he advances. He is actually fusion welding the copper, not braze welding. Not that it matters much for the end result. As for the "soldering", enough folks have commented on that already. I will point out that a good silver-bearing solder like Stay-Brite and Stay-Brite 8 will hold any pressure that soft copper itself is capable of holding. Braze joints are certainly stronger, but the high heat anneals the copper and leaves it at it's minimum strength, which is actually weaker than the solder joint. Just don't use 95-5 or other plumbing solder in AC&R apps, as it lacks the elongation and ductility to tolerate the vibration. Only solders developed for AC&R use like Stay-Brite are suitable for AC&R use. Harris metallurgists developed Stay-Brite back in the 1970's specifically for use on AC&R applications. Although I braze most joints, I use Stay-Brite or Stay-Brite 8 sometimes, depending on the application. Never had a failure or leak with either, and I have Stay-Brite fittings that have been in service on refrigeration TXV's for over 2 decades.
Never saw the need for flux outside of the joint being soldered. Also you should wipe the joint clean with a damp cloth it cleans the soldered joint up nicely leaving a pretty soldered joint to look at.
No no no. No damp cloth. Dry cloth only. Go ask the Copper Development Association. Unless you like crusty calcified fittings a few years after install.
Nice welding. :-) But it might not be such a good idea to weld hard copper tubing, because the heat anneals the copper. That's the advantage soft soldering has over brasing and welding.
The people who braze copper are primarily HVAC installers in my opinion. We don't get to rotate the pipe. Plus, the preferred brazing rod is SilFos 15 a Cu Ag Zn brazing rod that is self fluxing. Also with refrigerant lines, it is necessary to maintain an N2 blanket inside the pipe in order to prevent CuO from forming.
Next week Mr. Tig teaches: "How to paint the Mona Lisa" in this new series of 'How Not To'!! Sometimes people shouldn't go outside their field of expertise without proper guidance and this is just an example of why. Live and learn..Give em an E for effort..
I have used acetylene when all else failed and I had a trickle leak from the upstream inaccessible valve. Kept a valve open to allow the steam to escape and it worked well. I had tried the bread crumb trick to no avail. So it can be appropriate. Just be very careful of your valve bodies and components. Now the new shark fittings can be a god send. Doug
For those ho never used and oxipropane or an oxiacetilene (10:20 ) you should never close both gases at the same time.... "The oxígen always come after at the beginning and go before at the end" (an old saying in Spanish) I understand the guy make quick for the video but ...no, is danger. Very Good video 👍 greetings
I much prefer your segments to the other guy's. This is very informative. I can't envision many instances where you would have full access to weld piping. Whereas the solder or silver solder 'pulls' all the way around to the top or other inaccessible spaces still get full coverage. I would like to see a cross section of this as the weld looks to be sitting on top of the copper. Interesting in any case. Doug
I have been soldering for years and have never needed to flux the OUTSIDE of a solder joint. Ever. The mating surfaces need to be clean as possible and fluxed for both acid cleaning and wetting agent action. But the outside of a fitting? If anything, if the application at hand is vertical, the solder will flow out of the cup and follow the flux. Result? You have now "chromed" the joint. Looks like crap and both your boss and customer (quite often one in the same) will be less than impressed. Better to apply "just enough flux to do the job, apply heat, wipe off any excess flux running out of the joint before applying solder. The result? any excess solder which flows down out of the joint will be easily peeled off after cooling as there was no wetting action, hence, no adhesion. Horizontal is much easier and less critical. Also, I think too much flux will bubble/boil in the joint and may cause a pinhole leak. Enough to do the job, and no more. The idea is to get a full solder cup and a slight fillet showing and no more. "More" is not always better. Try it out and see.
sir thanks for sharing,,,i like your work verry natural,,and being honest is the best one thing we know already that there are so many welder,,but this man is working a natural...keep sharing sir thanks a lot
Hello Mr. Tig, I can tell that a few spot on the brazed area with tig seem to have a spot of not enough of flow and more lay on top of pipe. Also, If you would of used Harris six percent silver soft solder you would be able to keep the high strength of the hard copper without softening the base metal. Which is about half the strength from full hard to annealed soft. A known fact about draw through die copper pipe. The soft solder joint you prepared is right on. You should of used a wet rag and just cleaned up the solder off the pipe for the professional look and tempering. Also, I have found that using a large soldering iron would prevent you from burning the surrounding and help keep oxidation at bay too. Good day and stay virus free Mr. Tig. VF
Silver brazing works, if you're really want high pressure joints. Copper needs to be red hot though and you need special flux. And I've found it's small window, heat-wise, between brazing temp and burnt flux. You need more controllable heat to tin/lead solder really. That way you can make the solder go in the direction you want it to go. It's much neater and more flexible, I would say. I might be tempted to bronze braze copper to brass fittings, but not copper to copper joints.
Mr. TIG...great video. I have an Everlast TOG Multi-Purpose machine and currently working on a refrigerator that I need to install a dryer to the compressor. I tried to use a propane torch to sweat the dryer back on....was not doing it right per your video, but wanted to see if I could TOG weld the joints. I think I will fall back on the sweating process per your video and foregothe TIG, but this video was very helpful either way. Cheers.
Im not a tig welder closest i came is gas brass filler. I am interested in auto body sheet metal work. I do rust out mostly some fabrication with a mig welder. This is thin metal 20~22 ga. Usually. I have this idea that tig silicon bronze would be lower temp and therefore less warpage. I dont hear this touted by anyone. Cant figure out why. Also which tig welder would you recommend for my application. Or if you think this is all a bad idea and I should stick with mig welding.. thanks for your informative. Channel.
Yup, I enjoy the tig time videos, but this was really bad!, Welders are Welders and Plumbers are Plumbers! as noted below if your going to braze or solder a socket fitting, we want the filler to flow into the cup! pointless to weld the joint only and this won't pass most code for brazed joints! when soldering (and this was even worse!) the least amount of heat is best! two problems with this demo, hard to control the heat with a large flame and too much solder. For fun try soldering a 1/2" copper tube with a piece of 1/8" dia wire solder 1/8" long!!! then cut the cup and pull it off the tube, With the correct heat and position the socket will be full of solder Also clean and apply flux where you want the solder to go, any where else is going to make a mess! For brazing socket fittings, same rules apply, except the more heat the better up to cherry red, for copper to copper brazing no flux is needed and not allowed by some codes. Either way if its a socket fitting, we need to have capillary action pulling the filler metal into the joint! Keep up the excellent welding and tig video's but maybe have a Master Plumber guest for your soldering and brazing demo's cheers
about anything is weldable with TIG process, the most used process to assemble copper piping is soft brazing because it is aimed toward piping assembly and is much easyer to perform. silver brazing is used in specialty applications like refrigeration gas circuits and heavy loaded electrical leads TIG process is used to weld windings in industrial motors that could be sumitted to temperatures superior to melting point of current tin-lead brazing alloys
Flux should only be applied were you need the solder to flow. It is an acid and it needs to be cleaned off or it will corrode the area that it is left on. So don't put it where you don't need it. Also, too much heat and the solder won't stick it just runs out. If that happens pull the joint apart, let it cool off then re prep it again and then start again. Don't waste solder if it isn't taking. The solder must melt via heat from the metal not the flame of the torch. Apply the solder on the opposite side from the area that the flame is heating, the solder runs towards the flame. This is how you can solder on the back side of a joint. Other options are silver solder (copper to steel, brass also), and various copper to copper rods that are used in the HVAC industry.
Hey Mr TIg... Toss that home depot soldier kit in the trash. Use some silfoss 15 and ya won't need to clean it and can skip the emory cloth AND FLUX. (HVAC guy) Flux is so yesterday.
Don't want you coming round mine to solder!!! Wow and yes you can definitely use to much solder. Never seen anyone flux the outside of a fitting before like that lol
My question is how come you aren't aiming the TIG torch at the bottom of the joint for the heat to draw the brazing alloy in? Also if you are going to use this for HVAC you will have to purge the inside of the line as well. Might as use some of the argon for this. You don't need much, like 1 cfh or so.
That soldering was ridiculous. The amount of flux was way, way, way, way,.way, way, way, way, way,.way. way, way, way, way, way, way too much. Imagine that being a drinking water line, it would.take years to clear that flux from the line. It's also super sticky on the outside. Referring yourself as MR. TIG is absurd. I'm so glad Bob Moffit is doing the weld.com. vids. Rosebud oxy to sweat some copper, LOL
way too much flux, no matter the pipe size you should start adding filler metal to the lower portion of your fitting to create a dam, and when you welded the fitting on you have zero penetration and since the copper is now annealed you have created a weaker joint by just capping the joint...
+ReluctantProphet I do believe the entire purpose of tig brazing is so you DO NOT penetrate, hence the lower melting temperature. Have a jolly good day kind sir!
+Pizza Welder which would have zero practical purpose and calls into question why he is touting this process for very high heat applications. Good day to you as well...
As a plumber/HVAC tech for 30 plus years, and an HT2 while in the Navy (welder), stick to tig. That's your forte, not soldering (way too much flux for starters) lol. Silver solder is best for high pressure in most applications, and must be careful not to overheat, as the scale can plug capillaries and orifices in A/C units
Need to add a part about AC tubing. The pressure doesn't allow soldering if I'm correct, they use a higher temperature process like braising. It might be braising. What ever it is, it takes the temper out of the copper and they flood the tubing with, I believe, nitrogen to prevent contamination. With the layout, using tig would not be practical.
I'm Sorry , I'm Australian and solder has an "L" in it I saw it written on the SOLDERING Kit. So it is said soLdering. If it was sodder it would be spelt that way. I guess I'm being pedantic, but that IS the way it is spelt. Other than that, a very good video. It is helpfull to understand that sometimes there could be reasons to use a specific process.
And you guys say aluminum differently because the name of the alloy changed but we kept the original spelling and pronunciation. There are a thousand different nuances between countries heck even here from one side of the country to there are vast differences in how people say things.
Soldering correctly is usually strong and fit for purpose. If you need super strength then use stainless steel tubing. Much better to weld, less clean up.
If I have a split from a frozen pipe on the outside radius of a 180* copper bend on 1/2" pipe would it be better to TIG braze it or try sweat it? It would be hard to replace the part... But i'm worried although I got the edges close together the solder has no where to wick into... High temp brazing will melt all the other solder in the system though... This is on a propane on demand water heater exchange.
So maybe this is different in the US, but what's going on with the outside of that pipe coupler? Sure I've sanded them for aesthetics, but I've never had any need for any flux or tin on the outside of it. When soldering from the inside out it would make even less sense (make a little ring of small diameter soldering silver (for gas and water) and trap it between the pipe and ridge in the coupler, flux the pipe). Is pasting up the coupler done in other countries as well?
RJ T There is no practical point in doing it the way he did in this video. Despite the somewhat professional appearance of this video, I don't think this guy has a clue when it comes to brazing/soldering.
Hey Mr. Tig, I have a bit of an odd question for ya. I'm doing a steel sculpture, with 16 gauge tubing that was welded with stick (yeah, I know, I need to get me a TIG welder). Since I'm still new at this, I ended up having some very small holes on some of the joints. I tried to fill them with the stick, but the process of filling and grinding had to stop as I was dangerously close to grinding off the sidewall. So, I'm wondering, do you think I would fill those holes with solder, lightly grind or sand of the roughness, and then still copper plate it? (I'm going to do electrolytic copper plating at home with a solution of copper sulphide and a car battery charger). I know its an odd question, but I just want to know if solder will stick to steel, and if it will also get plated. Cheers!
Agree with other comment , soldering not required a lot of paste , just make sure both surface clean sanded nice, and both pipe apply a little be paste. Also look like he used electrical solder instead 95/5. if you used Silver SOLDER it nailed forever ever but that solder IT price double than regular, not even every plumbing supply carry it.NOW we step up in next century and start using PRO PRESS fitting and is much better quality and more faster then old school braising which was good for bigger size copper pipe from 2'' and UP.. Conclusion that video Miss Informative.
I've had to WELD 1/4in square copper tubing for heating elements that run coolant through them. I used copper wire for fill rod. I cleaned the parts with a wire brush, and the wire with scotch- bright. Once a weld got started, I had to keep the joint under the gas shield until it was finished, or repeat the cleaning process. Very tedious work. Very little instruction available for welding copper.
Hello Mister Tig Which additive material or bagette is correct, is that red copper without powder, or yellow copper, send me the correct number and name of that bagette, I use my tig
Mr.Tig, First, Hi from the UK, and i'm a hobbyist Steam Engineer. Ive been looking into TIG Welding copper boilers, and ive got a question. A lot of the boilers that are TIG welded mainly weld the flanges and not the heat exchanger pipes, Is there a reason for this?
I have a small issue, I’m soldering a brass piece to a copper pipe, and applying the same amount of flux, but the solder doesn’t get sucked in when both parts are heated. What am I doing wrong?
Hi Mr. Tig, two questions if you don't mind. First, your torch angle seems extreme at the end of each segment of the bead when brazing. Is that intentional? Second ( actually two part question ), doesn't the copper become annealed by the tigs high heat and therefore it's integrity compromised for a high strength / pressure situation? I realize this demo is just plumbing pipe, but what about a heavier schedule or something structural? Thanks in advance for your reply and for the videos. Very informative! Peace. like a sculpture or repair on something bearing a load?
Since copper is very easily reduced from its oxide, it may make sense to add a small percentage of pure hydrogen to argon when welding copper. This certainly carries some danger due to the combustibility of hydrogen, but I suppose with the proper precautions everything should be fine.
Too much flux will cause pockets of it in the joint that will weaken the strength of it. You want to solder the bottom 1/3rd of the pipe first to make a dam, and then solder the next 1/3rd then the last 1/3rd. You also want to hold your torch opposite of where you add filler so that the heat draws the solder further into the joint.
Oknenah Half right there. That heat one side and add solder to the other only really applies to pipe under 1”. Anything 1” and above, your solder should be right behind the torch. Where the torch goes, the solder must follow. When braising, its the opposite, your torch should follow the silver rod. And adding solder from the bottom up isn’t to make a dam, but rather to push the flux up and out the top of the fitting(on horizontal joints).
Judging by the comments, Mr. TIG isn't really all that great at brazing/soldering. I did small plumbing jobs in my early 20s and saw the process of soldering copper pipes but never attempted it myself. I leave that to the professionals lol
Ralph Dratman sil-flos is a brazing rod used with a oxy- accl touch specifically for coper to copper applications. Has a tensile strength of one hundred thousand. Common uses are in refrigeration and HVAC applications. You can also Google it.
it looked like you were running a wide arc. was that intentional to spread out the heat input ? also you didn't mention fusion welding . is that an alternative with copper?
How do you get full penetration of the braise with TIG? I braise using oxygen and acetylene which ensures even heat distribution over the socket of the joint and full penetration through capillary action?
Some sil fos would have flowed very nicely with that overkill rosebud tip. Way too much heat on that solder joint. Wouldn't be surprised if that thing never held any pressure because all the solder bubbled out. Also, you CAN use too much solder. Especially on water lines. If you did an entire house with the amount of solder used in this, you'll be cleaning plumbing fixture screens and shower heads for ages.
When I have to braze copper such as Oxygen lines or replacing a compressor on an AC system I never had to use flux as copper with the correct rods no flux is needed . With a tensile strength over 87,000 PSI and the filler metal melts around 1,200 deg using the correct tips it is just about impossible to melt the copper Also the procedure I like it to heat the tubing and then the fitting to allow capillary action to do its job with a much neater appearance
Aww, I thought you were going to weld the copper with 100% helium and romex for the filler (like in the other video). Joking, kinda :D. Off topic question: Wyatt, do you also know how to weld with oxy-acetylene? I ask because back in high school I was decent (as far as decent goes in high school manufacturing classes) with TIG but I was awful at Oxy. They seem (at a rudimetary level) like similar processes as both use filler wire (and "dabbing") yet with the oxy torch I spent most of my time blowing holes in the metal. I (obviously) never had that issue with TIG.
I would love to see some more oxy welding, soldering, and brazing on various metals and the products you use to do that, like for instance oxy-acetylene welding aluminum. Why? Well sometimes you can't get a tig welder, generator, and argon tank to the same places you can get a oxy rig and/or temp/ conditions are too inclement for a TIG welder, for instance repairing an aluminum or stainless mount on a snowbound weather station via snowmobile.
Thanks for a great laugh as I was rolling n the floor. I'm a HVAC Tech and use both process's and using a rosebud to sweat with is like your Dentist using a hammer drill on a tooth. And tig welding copper interesting ideal. Thanks as have to share with the Facebook bunch.
For copper it's solder or silver solder (brazing). TOO MUCH FLUX is always a problem for potable water purposesor HVAC. Silver solder will flow into the joint. Silver solder is the way to do it for under concrete slab connections or HVAC lines. Sil-Fos 5 is my typical product. Most silver solders )2 to 15% silver for copper or brass to copper or brass) begin to melt at 1200 F and flow around 1400 F. A regular propane torch will not work, use a good turbo torch with map gas or acetylene. DO NOT use oxy-acetylene. Overheating will mess you up, burn the flux. For HVAC flood the lines with an inert gas first to avoid oxides inside the lines which will break loose and wipe out your HVAC compressor NO FLUX ON HVAC.
In Australia we use a tiny amount of dry nitrogen inside the copper pipe to stop scale. We also use brown tip solder. No need for flux or that type of solder at all unless joining two different metals (brass to copper for example). That flame... well i guess it speaks for itself......
Thomas Woodlock we use same nitrogen technique here in states too... well the guys that know what their doing... in my opinion, this guy here is way off about so many things...
As a pathetic novice at plumbing, I attempted to make a new routing of piping from my house entry to a water softener. The main line coming in was 1" copper so I went with that. It was a nightmare. I had a map-gas torch from home depot and a bit of water/steam in the line. I tried the bread trick to hold off water. I tried everything, then finally I called a 24hour plumber here in Phoenix and the guy came out middle of the night. He gave me a serious discount saying I had everything done well, just not enough heat. The guy was awesome! That torch you have and some experience would have helped. Great video.
I've done lots of soldering using either a propane or butane torch, with paste flux and regular old plumbing solder, and I've learnt that too much flux does a couple of things. Firstly, you can't actually see your joint very well, so you can't be sure that you've got that full capillary action. Secondly, it can leak later on, by forming little holes in the inside of your pipe. (I'm not one hundred percent sure about that second part, so someone else will probably explain it better). I find that applying similar principles as the ones used in oxy fuel brazing gives good results. Too much powdered flux on an oxy fuel braze just gets in the way and you can't see your solder getting into the joint properly. The Tig brazing part was informative though, and I enjoyed that. I just feel that TIG brazing is explained much better by some other folks, such as This Old Tony.
Well there is such a thing as too much flux. There is really no point in getting flux on the outside of that coupler, it only needs to prep the metal where the solder will go: inside the joint. Remember you absolutely have to clean any residual flux off your pipework because it will keep eating away at it.
eelcogg only flux where ya want filler.
I looking for this comment 👍
Use a self fluxing rod
there is a unknown element here of thermal transfer. The molten salt flux conducts heat rather well. I am not saying that there is a point to doing it but it does do something more then just dirty up the part. And if you have flux above the part, while you are brazing it will melt and pour over the braze cleaning it, depending on the speed of the braze. Alot happens but it might amounts to nothing. But I find it interesting since nuclear reactors use molten salt for cooling. Kinda think it spreads the heat out more since if there is alot of flux it will absorb heat and drip away, seems hard to harness usefulness in excess.
This Tig was for spaceship water lines and the soldering was for comedy. I like it. Subd
I really like your MIG demos. Soldering? Not so much, lots of misinformation about soldering and not so great technique. By way of qualifying my statement, I have nearly 30 years experience in soldering in commercial manufacturing applications.
Just use a "B" tank and brazing rod !!!
He never used MIG.
@@Doomzdayxx I was referring to his other videos.
Using that rosebud is like using a Howitzer to kill a deer.
+No Ammo Yes, but isn't that way more fun?
That is something I'd pay to do. 105 deer blasting.
No Ammo he should have used a brazing tip
@@lannyfullerj3852 or a propane torch since it’s impractical to tow around a torch kit just to solder copper pipe..
You would be better off using the torch to braze it than weld it. Also if you had a little more heat to the pipe with tig it will flow.
I weld copper directly and with phosphorus bronze all the time. Dropping the hot copper in water cleans it as well.
Something nobody caught: watch his "TIG Brazing" again, and pay particular attention to the edge of the female part. It is melting away as he advances. He is actually fusion welding the copper, not braze welding. Not that it matters much for the end result.
As for the "soldering", enough folks have commented on that already. I will point out that a good silver-bearing solder like Stay-Brite and Stay-Brite 8 will hold any pressure that soft copper itself is capable of holding. Braze joints are certainly stronger, but the high heat anneals the copper and leaves it at it's minimum strength, which is actually weaker than the solder joint. Just don't use 95-5 or other plumbing solder in AC&R apps, as it lacks the elongation and ductility to tolerate the vibration. Only solders developed for AC&R use like Stay-Brite are suitable for AC&R use. Harris metallurgists developed Stay-Brite back in the 1970's specifically for use on AC&R applications. Although I braze most joints, I use Stay-Brite or Stay-Brite 8 sometimes, depending on the application. Never had a failure or leak with either, and I have Stay-Brite fittings that have been in service on refrigeration TXV's for over 2 decades.
Thank you very much sir. This was extremely helpful info.
oh dear Mr TIG...
I had to check it wasn't April 1st.
You should probably delete this one for the sake of your credibility.
ruclips.net/video/quJXIkLOB0I/видео.html solderless easy connect &removable copper pipe and fitting
I like it. I was wondering how well brazing copper would work and here is the answer, it looks/works totally shit.
SHENTU get the f out of here with that shit
He should delete a lot of his videos he is a hack
Never saw the need for flux outside of the joint being soldered. Also you should wipe the joint clean with a damp cloth it cleans the soldered joint up nicely leaving a pretty soldered joint to look at.
He is not a plumber obviously:) also, I use silver for solar installations mostly.
No no no. No damp cloth. Dry cloth only. Go ask the Copper Development Association. Unless you like crusty calcified fittings a few years after install.
ruclips.net/video/quJXIkLOB0I/видео.html solderless easy connect &removable copper pipe and fitting
@@eyewearmachinery How much are your fittings? Do you have a Pricelist of all fittings?
@@eyewearmachinery shark bite dumb fuck
Nice welding. :-) But it might not be such a good idea to weld hard copper tubing, because the heat anneals the copper. That's the advantage soft soldering has over brasing and welding.
The people who braze copper are primarily HVAC installers in my opinion. We don't get to rotate the pipe. Plus, the preferred brazing rod is SilFos 15 a Cu Ag Zn brazing rod that is self fluxing. Also with refrigerant lines, it is necessary to maintain an N2 blanket inside the pipe in order to prevent CuO from forming.
Thank a million, Mr Tig! x
Next week Mr. Tig teaches: "How to paint the Mona Lisa" in this new series of 'How Not To'!! Sometimes people shouldn't go outside their field of expertise without proper guidance and this is just an example of why. Live and learn..Give em an E for effort..
I have used acetylene when all else failed and I had a trickle leak from the upstream inaccessible valve. Kept a valve open to allow the steam to escape and it worked well. I had tried the bread crumb trick to no avail. So it can be appropriate. Just be very careful of your valve bodies and components. Now the new shark fittings can be a god send. Doug
For those ho never used and oxipropane or an oxiacetilene (10:20 ) you should never close both gases at the same time....
"The oxígen always come after at the beginning and go before at the end" (an old saying in Spanish)
I understand the guy make quick for the video but ...no, is danger.
Very Good video 👍 greetings
I much prefer your segments to the other guy's. This is very informative. I can't envision many instances where you would have full access to weld piping. Whereas the solder or silver solder 'pulls' all the way around to the top or other inaccessible spaces still get full coverage. I would like to see a cross section of this as the weld looks to be sitting on top of the copper. Interesting in any case. Doug
Mr. Tig is cool. He never said that he was a plumber even though I agree with most of the comments on here.
I have been soldering for years and have never needed to flux the OUTSIDE of a solder joint. Ever. The mating surfaces need to be clean as possible and fluxed for both acid cleaning and wetting agent action. But the outside of a fitting? If anything, if the application at hand is vertical, the solder will flow out of the cup and follow the flux. Result? You have now "chromed" the joint. Looks like crap and both your boss and customer (quite often one in the same) will be less than impressed. Better to apply "just enough flux to do the job, apply heat, wipe off any excess flux running out of the joint before applying solder. The result? any excess solder which flows down out of the joint will be easily peeled off after cooling as there was no wetting action, hence, no adhesion. Horizontal is much easier and less critical.
Also, I think too much flux will bubble/boil in the joint and may cause a pinhole leak. Enough to do the job, and no more. The idea is to get a full solder cup and a slight fillet showing and no more.
"More" is not always better. Try it out and see.
sir thanks for sharing,,,i like your work verry natural,,and being honest is the best one thing we know already that there are so many welder,,but this man is working a natural...keep sharing sir thanks a lot
Hello Mr. Tig, I can tell that a few spot on the brazed area with tig seem to have a spot of not enough of flow and more lay on top of pipe. Also, If you would of used Harris six percent silver soft solder you would be able to keep the high strength of the hard copper without softening the base metal. Which is about half the strength from full hard to annealed soft. A known fact about draw through die copper pipe. The soft solder joint you prepared is right on. You should of used a wet rag and just cleaned up the solder off the pipe for the professional look and tempering. Also, I have found that using a large soldering iron would prevent you from burning the surrounding and help keep oxidation at bay too. Good day and stay virus free Mr. Tig. VF
good video I hope people are careful when they are sweating pipes in their house that they don't burn it down
How about cutting the joint apart and discussing relative strength?
ruclips.net/video/quJXIkLOB0I/видео.html solderless easy connect &removable copper pipe and fitting
Thank you, Mr Tig. It's really hard to find someone welding copper/brass with tig welder. Best regards.
lol You're right, not a plumber.
ruclips.net/video/quJXIkLOB0I/видео.html solderless easy connect &removable copper pipe and fitting
Great and instructive. The stairs behind you are spooky!!!
Thanks Mr. TIG! This was a great help!
Silver brazing works, if you're really want high pressure joints. Copper needs to be red hot though and you need special flux. And I've found it's small window, heat-wise, between brazing temp and burnt flux. You need more controllable heat to tin/lead solder really. That way you can make the solder go in the direction you want it to go. It's much neater and more flexible, I would say. I might be tempted to bronze braze copper to brass fittings, but not copper to copper joints.
mr tig, thanks for the video, i joy each minute, hahaha
Mr. TIG...great video. I have an Everlast TOG Multi-Purpose machine and currently working on a refrigerator that I need to install a dryer to the compressor. I tried to use a propane torch to sweat the dryer back on....was not doing it right per your video, but wanted to see if I could TOG weld the joints. I think I will fall back on the sweating process per your video and foregothe TIG, but this video was very helpful either way. Cheers.
Im not a tig welder closest i came is gas brass filler. I am interested in auto body sheet metal work. I do rust out mostly some fabrication with a mig welder. This is thin metal 20~22 ga. Usually. I have this idea that tig silicon bronze would be lower temp and therefore less warpage. I dont hear this touted by anyone. Cant figure out why. Also which tig welder would you recommend for my application. Or if you think this is all a bad idea and I should stick with mig welding.. thanks for your informative. Channel.
Wow. Thats a first for me. I have never seen a pipe sweated with a rosebud. LOL
This sort of thing is best left to the professionals who do it for a living.
Yup, I enjoy the tig time videos, but this was really bad!, Welders are Welders and Plumbers are Plumbers! as noted below if your going to braze or solder a socket fitting, we want the filler to flow into the cup! pointless to weld the joint only and this won't pass most code for brazed joints! when soldering (and this was even worse!) the least amount of heat is best! two problems with this demo, hard to control the heat with a large flame and too much solder. For fun try soldering a 1/2" copper tube with a piece of 1/8" dia wire solder 1/8" long!!! then cut the cup and pull it off the tube, With the correct heat and position the socket will be full of solder
Also clean and apply flux where you want the solder to go, any where else is going to make a mess!
For brazing socket fittings, same rules apply, except the more heat the better up to cherry red, for copper to copper brazing no flux is needed and not allowed by some codes.
Either way if its a socket fitting, we need to have capillary action pulling the filler metal into the joint!
Keep up the excellent welding and tig video's but maybe have a Master Plumber guest for your soldering and brazing demo's
cheers
Silver solder works well on copper pipe too.... flux is borax... propane hot enough (dull red heat). Very strong joint...
my father was a master lumber he used a turbo propane torch all his carreir,,, i inherited it and use i roday,,,,i was sweating pipes at 7 yrs old
Hi
Which type of rods are you use for tig welding
The rod js barss ?
Fast forward ------> 2020 and we now have push fit :)
Thank you so much ur talent sharing^^ from South Korea ~~
That’s a welder trying to do a plumbers job cracking a nut with a sledgehammer. Thanks for the vid👌
about anything is weldable with TIG process, the most used process to assemble copper piping is soft brazing because it is aimed toward piping assembly and is much easyer to perform.
silver brazing is used in specialty applications like refrigeration gas circuits and heavy loaded electrical leads
TIG process is used to weld windings in industrial motors that could be sumitted to temperatures superior to melting point of current tin-lead brazing alloys
Flux should only be applied were you need the solder to flow. It is an acid and it needs to be cleaned off or it will corrode the area that it is left on. So don't put it where you don't need it.
Also, too much heat and the solder won't stick it just runs out. If that happens pull the joint apart, let it cool off then re prep it again and then start again. Don't waste solder if it isn't taking.
The solder must melt via heat from the metal not the flame of the torch. Apply the solder on the opposite side from the area that the flame is heating, the solder runs towards the flame. This is how you can solder on the back side of a joint.
Other options are silver solder (copper to steel, brass also), and various copper to copper rods that are used in the HVAC industry.
this is the worst. stick to ruining stuff in jay leno's garage.
How not to braze/solder 101! 👍🏻😂
Looks like a few water heaters I’ve seen the HVAC guys ‘install’.
Comedic gold. Thanks for the laugh!
Thanks for the video response Meesta TIG!
This is a terrible display of plumbing skills. Go ask the proper craftsman for the proper skills.
Hey Mr TIg... Toss that home depot soldier kit in the trash. Use some silfoss 15 and ya won't need to clean it and can skip the emory cloth AND FLUX. (HVAC guy) Flux is so yesterday.
Don't want you coming round mine to solder!!! Wow and yes you can definitely use to much solder. Never seen anyone flux the outside of a fitting before like that lol
My question is how come you aren't aiming the TIG torch at the bottom of the joint for the heat to draw the brazing alloy in? Also if you are going to use this for HVAC you will have to purge the inside of the line as well. Might as use some of the argon for this. You don't need much, like 1 cfh or so.
Thank you for the quick response.
That soldering was ridiculous. The amount of flux was way, way, way, way,.way, way, way, way, way,.way. way, way, way, way, way, way too much.
Imagine that being a drinking water line, it would.take years to clear that flux from the line. It's also super sticky on the outside.
Referring yourself as MR. TIG is absurd. I'm so glad Bob Moffit is doing the weld.com. vids. Rosebud oxy to sweat some copper, LOL
way too much flux, no matter the pipe size you should start adding filler metal to the lower portion of your fitting to create a dam, and when you welded the fitting on you have zero penetration and since the copper is now annealed you have created a weaker joint by just capping the joint...
+ReluctantProphet I do believe the entire purpose of tig brazing is so you DO NOT penetrate, hence the lower melting temperature. Have a jolly good day kind sir!
+Pizza Welder which would have zero practical purpose and calls into question why he is touting this process for very high heat applications. Good day to you as well...
He would also be better off using oxygen acetylene torch to braze it IMO an oxy acetylene braze looks soooo much nicer
Also agreed with the way to much flux
+speedyticket Would plain (no oxy) propane work?
As a plumber/HVAC tech for 30 plus years, and an HT2 while in the Navy (welder), stick to tig. That's your forte, not soldering (way too much flux for starters) lol. Silver solder is best for high pressure in most applications, and must be careful not to overheat, as the scale can plug capillaries and orifices in A/C units
Hi, thanks for your videos. Which wire material do you use for TIG cooper? Thanks
Need to add a part about AC tubing. The pressure doesn't allow soldering if I'm correct, they use a higher temperature process like braising. It might be braising. What ever it is, it takes the temper out of the copper and they flood the tubing with, I believe, nitrogen to prevent contamination. With the layout, using tig would not be practical.
🤣 was he making a flux cake? It look like he was adding frosting
I'm Sorry , I'm Australian and solder has an "L" in it I saw it written on the SOLDERING Kit. So it is said soLdering. If it was sodder it would be spelt that way. I guess I'm being pedantic, but that IS the way it is spelt. Other than that, a very good video. It is helpfull to understand that sometimes there could be reasons to use a specific process.
In the US it is pronounced dodder, I know how it's spelled. That's just the way it is.
And you guys say aluminum differently because the name of the alloy changed but we kept the original spelling and pronunciation. There are a thousand different nuances between countries heck even here from one side of the country to there are vast differences in how people say things.
+Mike Dittman In reference to Aluminium, that is the OFFICIAL pronunciation, and aluminum is accepted as a second spelling.
+scott carr www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm
Soldering correctly is usually strong and fit for purpose. If you need super strength then use stainless steel tubing. Much better to weld, less clean up.
If I have a split from a frozen pipe on the outside radius of a 180* copper bend on 1/2" pipe would it be better to TIG braze it or try sweat it? It would be hard to replace the part... But i'm worried although I got the edges close together the solder has no where to wick into... High temp brazing will melt all the other solder in the system though... This is on a propane on demand water heater exchange.
So maybe this is different in the US, but what's going on with the outside of that pipe coupler? Sure I've sanded them for aesthetics, but I've never had any need for any flux or tin on the outside of it. When soldering from the inside out it would make even less sense (make a little ring of small diameter soldering silver (for gas and water) and trap it between the pipe and ridge in the coupler, flux the pipe). Is pasting up the coupler done in other countries as well?
RJ T
There is no practical point in doing it the way he did in this video. Despite the somewhat professional appearance of this video, I don't think this guy has a clue when it comes to brazing/soldering.
Hey Mr. Tig, I have a bit of an odd question for ya. I'm doing a steel sculpture, with 16 gauge tubing that was welded with stick (yeah, I know, I need to get me a TIG welder). Since I'm still new at this, I ended up having some very small holes on some of the joints. I tried to fill them with the stick, but the process of filling and grinding had to stop as I was dangerously close to grinding off the sidewall. So, I'm wondering, do you think I would fill those holes with solder, lightly grind or sand of the roughness, and then still copper plate it? (I'm going to do electrolytic copper plating at home with a solution of copper sulphide and a car battery charger). I know its an odd question, but I just want to know if solder will stick to steel, and if it will also get plated. Cheers!
Agree with other comment , soldering not required a lot of paste , just make sure both surface clean sanded nice, and both pipe apply a little be paste. Also look like he used electrical solder instead 95/5. if you used Silver SOLDER it nailed forever ever but that solder IT price double than regular, not even every plumbing supply carry it.NOW we step up in next century and start using PRO PRESS fitting and is much better quality and more faster then old school braising which was good for bigger size copper pipe from 2'' and UP.. Conclusion that video Miss Informative.
I've had to WELD 1/4in square copper tubing for heating elements that run coolant through them. I used copper wire for fill rod. I cleaned the parts with a wire brush, and the wire with scotch- bright.
Once a weld got started, I had to keep the joint under the gas shield until it was finished, or repeat the cleaning process. Very tedious work. Very little instruction available for welding copper.
Hello Mister Tig
Which additive material or bagette is correct, is that red copper without powder, or yellow copper, send me the correct number and name of that bagette, I use my tig
Mr.Tig,
First, Hi from the UK, and i'm a hobbyist Steam Engineer. Ive been looking into TIG Welding copper boilers, and ive got a question.
A lot of the boilers that are TIG welded mainly weld the flanges and not the heat exchanger pipes, Is there a reason for this?
Great video.Seams to be overkill with that big torch.:)
Thanx , that was great
I have a small issue, I’m soldering a brass piece to a copper pipe, and applying the same amount of flux, but the solder doesn’t get sucked in when both parts are heated.
What am I doing wrong?
Hi Mr. Tig, two questions if you don't mind. First, your torch angle seems extreme at the end of each segment of the bead when brazing. Is that intentional? Second ( actually two part question ), doesn't the copper become annealed by the tigs high heat and therefore it's integrity compromised for a high strength / pressure situation? I realize this demo is just plumbing pipe, but what about a heavier schedule or something structural? Thanks in advance for your reply and for the videos. Very informative! Peace.
like a sculpture or repair on something bearing a load?
Since copper is very easily reduced from its oxide, it may make sense to add a small percentage of pure hydrogen to argon when welding copper. This certainly carries some danger due to the combustibility of hydrogen, but I suppose with the proper precautions everything should be fine.
I use Mapp gas. Works great. Takes a few seconds.
Too much flux will cause pockets of it in the joint that will weaken the strength of it. You want to solder the bottom 1/3rd of the pipe first to make a dam, and then solder the next 1/3rd then the last 1/3rd. You also want to hold your torch opposite of where you add filler so that the heat draws the solder further into the joint.
Oknenah Half right there. That heat one side and add solder to the other only really applies to pipe under 1”. Anything 1” and above, your solder should be right behind the torch. Where the torch goes, the solder must follow. When braising, its the opposite, your torch should follow the silver rod. And adding solder from the bottom up isn’t to make a dam, but rather to push the flux up and out the top of the fitting(on horizontal joints).
Mr Tig you've proved you're not Mr Braze.
Judging by the comments, Mr. TIG isn't really all that great at brazing/soldering. I did small plumbing jobs in my early 20s and saw the process of soldering copper pipes but never attempted it myself. I leave that to the professionals lol
curious is there a reason why you didn't use sil-flos for brazing the copper to copper joint?
+George W What is sil-flos ?
Ralph Dratman sil-flos is a brazing rod used with a oxy- accl touch specifically for coper to copper applications. Has a tensile strength of one hundred thousand. Common uses are in refrigeration and HVAC applications. You can also Google it.
George W great stuff have used it copper sheet fab
it looked like you were running a wide arc. was that intentional to spread out the heat input ? also you didn't mention fusion welding . is that an alternative with copper?
How do you get full penetration of the braise with TIG? I braise using oxygen and acetylene which ensures even heat distribution over the socket of the joint and full penetration through capillary action?
How is it brazing when the base metal itself is being melted?
Some sil fos would have flowed very nicely with that overkill rosebud tip. Way too much heat on that solder joint. Wouldn't be surprised if that thing never held any pressure because all the solder bubbled out. Also, you CAN use too much solder. Especially on water lines. If you did an entire house with the amount of solder used in this, you'll be cleaning plumbing fixture screens and shower heads for ages.
I use brazing rod to TIG copper with no problem 👍😎🇦🇺🇦🇺
Who in their right mind would use TIG/SB to connect copper pipe? Especially in construction conditions, no pipe rotation possible.
Brazing is not welding, you know the difference but beginners don't!
is it using ac frequency or dc? how many amperes?
When I have to braze copper such as Oxygen lines or replacing a compressor on an AC system I never had to use flux as copper with the correct rods no flux is needed
. With a tensile strength over 87,000 PSI and the filler metal melts around 1,200 deg using the correct tips it is just about impossible to melt the copper
Also the procedure I like it to heat the tubing and then the fitting to allow capillary action to do its job with a much neater appearance
How would you weld 3/4 solid round to another 3/4 solid round
What's wrong with using the arc to silver solder? Its small, controllable, pin point, quick.
HAHA! The BINFORD 4000! So does that make you Tim or Al?
Holy CRAP Batman, that's a lot of work for a copper pipe joint!
Why don't you get a bigger freakin torch man! LOL
Aww, I thought you were going to weld the copper with 100% helium and romex for the filler (like in the other video). Joking, kinda :D.
Off topic question: Wyatt, do you also know how to weld with oxy-acetylene? I ask because back in high school I was decent (as far as decent goes in high school manufacturing classes) with TIG but I was awful at Oxy. They seem (at a rudimetary level) like similar processes as both use filler wire (and "dabbing") yet with the oxy torch I spent most of my time blowing holes in the metal. I (obviously) never had that issue with TIG.
+Larry Bolan Yes, we are actually in the process of doing a whole series on oxy acetylene (gas) welding.
+Weld.com I'm looking forward to that series.
+Weld.com Hey ,Do it with the Dillon 2000 Acetylene / Air torch. I recon it will do it easy.
Binford 2000
I would love to see some more oxy welding, soldering, and brazing on various metals and the products you use to do that, like for instance oxy-acetylene welding aluminum. Why? Well sometimes you can't get a tig welder, generator, and argon tank to the same places you can get a oxy rig and/or temp/ conditions are too inclement for a TIG welder, for instance repairing an aluminum or stainless mount on a snowbound weather station via snowmobile.
It's called Silphos 15... use that and call it a day.
Thanks for a great laugh as I was rolling n the floor. I'm a HVAC Tech and use both process's and using a rosebud to sweat with is like your Dentist using a hammer drill on a tooth. And tig welding copper interesting ideal. Thanks as have to share with the Facebook bunch.
There way no penetration on that tig joint. Just a measly cap. Worst trade advice ever
+MrYogibtp When using the silicon bronze filler, there is no penetration because the base material (in this case copper) is not supposed to melt.
what type of tubsgten did you use for this job?
For copper it's solder or silver solder (brazing). TOO MUCH FLUX is always a problem for potable water purposesor HVAC. Silver solder will flow into the joint. Silver solder is the way to do it for under concrete slab connections or HVAC lines. Sil-Fos 5 is my typical product. Most silver solders )2 to 15% silver for copper or brass to copper or brass) begin to melt at 1200 F and flow around 1400 F. A regular propane torch will not work, use a good turbo torch with map gas or acetylene. DO NOT use oxy-acetylene. Overheating will mess you up, burn the flux. For HVAC flood the lines with an inert gas first to avoid oxides inside the lines which will break loose and wipe out your HVAC compressor NO FLUX ON HVAC.
What did you have your tig machine amperage set at?Thanks
I think both ends should be sanded with fine sand paper to get a good clean connection with the solder.
Never use sandpaper it can holds contaminants better steel wool or fine file.
@@diamondcar2842 My father always used sand paper for a clean connection and he never had any leaks. Real fine paper he always used.
Well at least his shop is nice and clean.
This video discredits tig time greatly. You guys really should label this video as to how NOT to solder or braze. Nothing about that was professional.
Yeah, this is awful. I thought it was a joke for a sec
FIG-JAM FUCK IAM GOOD JUST ASK ME🤔 award of the year