TIG Welding Copper to Steel HOW TO
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- Have you ever wondered what all goes into the process of TIG welding copper to steel? The One Zim is a specialist at that very thing and is here to give you all the tips you need to give it a go for yourself.
Side NOTE: The base metal being brought to a liquid state is the only distinction between weld and braze. In this video, it is considered Welding.
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Learned something new today... Thanks😁
I try to do that same thing myself, never stop learning 🍻
WOW! Never in a million years did I think that was even possible. Your weld talents are amazing.
Thank you so much for your positive feed back!
I think this is tig brazing. Doesn't actually penetrate the metal I believe just lays on top but it is incredibly strong.
@@x91s55 in brazing the filler doesn't just lay on top. Rather, the filler heated to a liquid state is sucked into microscopic pores in the parent materials via capillary action (think of how a drop of water is sucked into the tight space between two slides for a microscope).
Once the filler is cooled it is physically locked into both materials being joined, kind of like puzzle pieces.
@@carlosrobertson8265 thanks for the clarification
@@carlosrobertson8265 that is not true, solder does that.
Beautiful example of walking the cup, great arc shots, Thank You for posting!!
Glad you enjoyed it thank you for watching!
I was IMPRESSED~! This is a first time with you. I'm new and old to the tig world. I'm also 80 which I'm finding is not a "plus" trying to learn tig. I did a bit of tig back in college when tig was only known as "heliarc" and our instructor was very selective who got to touch the "heliarc" machine.
Good Luck, I'll be back for some more basic help.
This comment made my day🙏
Nice to see that done. I've heard of it and seen parts jointed that way but never seen the process. Thanks for showing, explaining and sharing.
Glad you found this informative!!
Beautiful welds
Higher thermal conductivity doesn't mean that it "holds heat" (in fact it means exactly the opposite lol ) . It means that it conducts heat more. When you need to apply the arc longer to have it melt is because heat is actually spreading really fast in the piece and it can't quite concentrate at the arc's striking point as quickly as with, say, steel. Steel has poor heat conductivity, thus the heat you're inputting into the piece builds up really fast at the point of impact and has no time to spread fast enough : thus the metal melts right under the arc.
What you said!!
You've addressed it already
And concise
Well said
I'm not a welder, and I don't see myself being one. But, for some reason I'm fascinated by your videos and make me want to learn welding for a hobby.
I can not see myself ever needing to weld steel to copper, but I have a feeling I will win some bets after seeing this !! Well done !
No ordinary welding job, that's a piece of art.
Thank you very much!
As a transitioning flame welder on mainly brass alloys due to my previous trade (band instrument repair) I find this enticing and inspiring. Following you on IG and looking forward to one day gain the amazing control you have TIGing copper alloys. Also I've suffered from zinc poisoning and "not fun" doesn't even begins to cover it, just leaving this here so anybody not familiar with that gets a positive reinforcement on wearing a respirator or even better a fumes extraction system/device.
I also got zinc poisoning once while gouging in a pit underneath a hydraulic press. Needless to say the second day in the pit I had a respirator on. And that wasn’t even good enough because I got carbon monoxide poisoning the 4th day. After that I got an air supplied hood. Way safer and tons more comfortable.
Dude... That was seriously impressive! WOW!
Just an old acquaintance saying hello. I've shown some of your stuff to my brother in-law who welds for aerofin. Anywhos, great video.
Very, very interesting video. I'll never weld the two together, but I like the information, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it I'll be doing more exotic metal videos in the future 👊🏼
Looks nice. I was in the HVAC coil manufacturing game for 50+ years. On steel to copper braze joints the fastest and most effective method (for volume production) is brazing with flux coated brass rod. 3/32 brass rod btw.A 2.5" joint would take about 3 to 5 minutes. Natural gas/O2 twin tip torch.
I tried TIG brazing HVAC pipes and it just won't work unless it's a very large pipe. Too fine of a line between melting brazing material and the copper itself, and TIG arc can put out a LOT of heat. It's like trying to braze stuff with a lightsaber.
Very interesting probably something I will never need to do but you have a fantastic way of explaining thank you for sharing your time and knowledge
Thank you for watching!
I really thought this was clickbait. I had to check though. Glad I did. I've welded stick and mig for years to make my money, but at home I play with tig too. I didn't think this was possible. I can't conceive of needing to use this, but wow, nice to know.
Thank you for watching! Glad you stopped in!
Very interesting, nice skills, that is a technical operation. Thanks for showing and explaining. Not sure I'd ever need to try this, but it still helps to understand welding better seeing things like this.
Thank you so much! Keep checking back I have more coming soon!🍻
I think this is TIG brazing. If you form a weld puddle on carbon steel and stick a silicon bronze rod into it, it will vaporize the silicon bronze because of the large difference in melting points. You can weld copper with a silicon bronze rod because they are similar metals with similar melting points, but copper or silicon bronze will not weld to carbon steel. When he talks about "washing up" with the filler metal, the steel is not melting. The proof would be to cut and etch the weld nugget to either verify or refute that it is a "weld".
Correct.
If you are melting the steel and the copper then it is a weld, correct?
@@jasonbirch1182 >If you are melting the steel
That was his point - steel not is melted and melted filler just stick to it like tin stick to copper wire.
As I have learned, in welding the two materials to be joined melt, with or without an added filler material. And in this video I don't see liquid steel, so it's not welding, but brazing. So I think your statement is correct.
@@jasonbirch1182 these are dissimilar metals that cannot be welded this way. It is braising.
I have seen silicon bronze Tig welded before, but only on steel, you attached to copper, so that was an interesting difference, and better than I have seen, well done, I like the outcome.
Thank you very much for watching and your positive feedback!
Yes exactly silicon bronze tig braze
Thanks. Iv'e seen copper/steel parts that were welded together but never could find info on how it was done. Very good video.
Great video. I especially liked how I could see the puddle and watch you add the filler and as you kissed the steel how easily the steel melted as you said it would. Thanks again very instructive..!
Good looking work, nice walking the cup action.
Much appreciated 👊🏼
Very informational Zim. Great arc shots to help understand what is going on with the process.
Thank you Greg!
Well that's something I've never seen done before. Fascinating!
Good process nicely done. I may certainly be wrong, it won't be the first time, but I was always taught that a weld has to melt both pieces of a weld and fuse them in molten form.
the amps he is using will easy melt the steel pipe, with or without a filler.
I knew this can be done but the properties of both base metals wouldn’t make it a common method or a safe joint outside of “show & tell”. The old argument of braze vs weld can easily be proven by cutting and checking the weld nugget for dilution. It would be interesting to see what a CWI would say “on the record” with this. That silicon bronze is awesome stuff either way. Thanks for sharing!
Well done ZIMMY!
Appreciate you watching brother 👊🏼
Very interesting, sir. I learned a new thing...thanks!
BTW...love the Betsy Ross flag, but it's backwards. When hung vertically, the canton (the blue part) goes in the upper left corner.
I have been a certified welder for 34 years I taught I had seen it all wow
Great looking brazing! Now i gotta try it.
Seems like a sensitive topic with some folks...Buy the ticket, take the ride. I'm glad you put this out, can't wait to try it. What I want to see is, can you trick any midrange machines into Mig welding copper or bronze right out of the gun?
Technically what he's doing is brazing and not welding. I'm unaware of any copper or bronze based MIG wire.
Yes there are phosphor bronze MIG welding wires, we use it to repair the 16"(?) brass plain bearings for the crushing roller shafts in a sugar mill. From memory you need a lot of preheat, DCEN polarity, straight argon, and peen the welds between each pass.
There are also copper electrodes for stick welding made by Lincoln Eutectic, from memory the box has '235' written on it but even then I don't trust that. Barely ever use them, I think the first job I ever did with them was welding some copper rings onto the outside of some steel rollers for a shaft welding machine for the shaft to roll on without making marks on the shaft.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor silicon bronze hardwire mig will do it but it's messy
Great job! Thanks for creating and sharing.
Is this not TIG brazing? If you're not specifically melting both parent metals into the melt pool, it's technically not a weld. Whatever you wish to call it, your finished solution looks very good. It would be nice to see it sectioned.
Beautiful work Sir,
Thank you sir🙏
well done, great information here. cheers from Florida, Paul
Thank you for watching cheers from VA 🍻
@@1dreadyzim What is the application for the carbon steel pipe to copper pipe? just wondering, I hope to meet you sometime at weld.com studios.....Paul 'Paulie' Brown....from weld.com
Good to talk to you Paul! I'd love to come down and play at the studio one day, it would be quite the honor. These are for heat transfer equipment, these are usually headers for heating and cooling coils for large climate control systems or power plants. Sometimes a customer wants the copper barrel but wants a carbon fitting due to thermal expansion or whatever reason.
@@1dreadyzim thanks for the info, I sort of thought they were part of a cooling system.....hoping you get down to Florida, one day, until then, Cheers, Paul ;Paulie' Brown
🍻🍻🍻
Copper does NOT have loads of Zinc in it! if it did, it would be Brass...
It has more zinc than most things people usually weld on so in retrospect I may have used incorrect terminology, but I stand by it😂
@@1dreadyzim anyone doing structural has probably welded straight over zinc.
Yeah I have served some time in sheet metal just welding galvanized all day so your correct, in comparison to something like that. Galvanized is the worst brass is a close second for sure
I was thinking the same thing, after all electrical copper wiring is extremely pure because any impurities decrease it's conductivity but I looked it up and there's several different alloys for pipes including one which is nearly 15% zinc. Here's a quote:
"It is manufactured from alloy C23000 which is comprised of approximately 85% Copper (Cu) with no greater than 0.05% Lead (Pb) and 0.05% Iron (Fe) and the remainder Zinc"
Also many copper pipe alloys contain small amounts of phosphorus and if he's getting headaches and other symptoms he may be experiencing phosphorus poisoning and thinking it's zinc...
good ventilation should mitigate the effects of the fumes and residue.. youll know if you dont get good ventilation you will get a seriously sharp and painful head ache... get to fresh air immediately .
I would love to see a section of it cut out and etched.
Simply explained Elwyn.... Master of your craft... I am curious if Silicon Copper could be used for this process too🤔
Thanks man! To be honest I've never actually tried that filler for this process but I can't think of any reason why it would not work
Nice video dude thank you.
All three types you refer to are types of tubing, not different alloys. My sources list copper tubing as available in C10100, aka 101, basically pure copper; and C12200, aka 122, with added phosphorus to deoxidize it.
I was laughing until you 🧢 it. Then I got impressed. Nice work man
Pipe welders where I work (navy vessels) join copper to mild steel with monel filler. A lot of people don’t realize this is a thing but it’s a required test here.
Since two different metals are bonded together is galvanic corrosion an issue?
Interesting. I'm wondering what the strength is of a copper/steel joint like that. I'm curious about welding copper to copper directly with copper filler - something for an art piece I'm doing.
I test these pieces at 450 psi underwater so it does the trick as far as pressure. I am not sure how long it lasts but for the initial tests it's decent!
for an art piece you can 100% get by with jus using solid electrical wire as filler to weld copper to copper or even copper to steel. I have made plenty of steel stemmed copper flowers like that.
@1dreadyzim I wouldn't think it would last long with the introduction of water do to electrolysis.
@@nitrojunkie9027 I really wouldn't imagine so, I really couldn't say for sure, what I can say is these units are either using steam/water or oil to function so perhaps these are mostly oil units.
@1dreadyzim yeah I would think so, because if not that joint would need a dielectric. Whether that be a union or a brass nipple to break the flow of electrons
Looks more like tig brazing to me? Maybe diluting the braze material by melting some base metal in but don't know if i would call this welding. Do it with some ER70 filler.
That filler would work fine if it weren't being meshed with copper, you can try it but I don't recommend it. Melting of base metal at all makes this a weld in fact it's the very difference between weld and braze.
@@1dreadyzim you are so correct....
here is an example of Braze Welding done by weld.com.....it is called a weld braze, but actually more like a glue as it is the surface tension that holds the parts together.....ruclips.net/video/fvR2q-NuZB0/видео.html
ER70 would probably not get hot enough to commingle with the copper and steel the way silicon bronze or even pure copper does. I have never tried using a steel rod, but might give it a go....the definition of a fusion weld is the melting of both base materials to commingle them. here is a video from weld.com on Braze welding with silicon bronze and GMAW [mig/mag]...Paul...here is an example of Braze Welding done by weld.com.....it is called a weld braze, but actually more like a glue as it is the surface tension that holds the parts together.....ruclips.net/video/fvR2q-NuZB0/видео.html
@@1dreadyzim I do not know about this one in this case. It is a stretch to call that welding is what i am saying. Since the filler material ( that is commonly used for brazing) has a LOT lower meting temperature than steel had to say. So i would put it this way, If you Tig (or gas for that matter) brazed a joint and you over heated it and melted the base metal does it suddenly become a weld? I would say not. Its just an overhead braze and nothing was gained by melting the base metal. Or in this case there is really no need to even melt the steel. I would call this a braze joint. If the base metal melted it is just overheated and no need to do that.
@@Magnamanification I agree. I think this is brazing. If you form a weld puddle on the carbon steel, it will vaporize the silicon bronze and copper because of the temperature difference in melting points. When he talks about "washing up" with the filler metal, the steel is not melting. The proof would be to cut and etch the weld nugget to either verify or refute that it is a "weld".
Awesome 👍 job and great tips guys
🤘🏼👽🤘🏼
That cap really cleaned up that root pass nice , how many bead cap was that ? THANKS
Good video
🙏
thats amazing! one thing i wonder tho, if the pipes are used for anything with a temperature variation,, and one naturally expands quicker than the other material, would it lead to the weld braking?
Nice one 👍 excellent video thanks. Would a preheat make a big difference to the copper ?
In the case of something much thicker I would highly recommend a preheat! There are times I have to weld half inch copper to these and it takes forever without preheating it
Very good. Sir, can we tig weld galvanize pipe for chain link fence, and if we do what kind of filler rod you use?
It is a weld regarding the copper side and a braze regarding the steel side. A legit process and better than significantly melting the steel. You melt some steel - can hardly be suppressed completely with a manual process, especially if you need so much power to get the process running on the copper side - but that is more like an unwanted side effect. Tig brazing steel often also melts up some steel base material, the less the better. When it's not too much it works. When too much iron and copper are mixed, the result gets very brittle. Crackling on cooldown-brittle. Nickel filler can be used in that case, because Nickel works well with Copper and Iron in mixture.
What would be the purpose of having a steel pipe welded with a copper? I’m just curious .
Wow you can really see how much thermal conductivity the copper has compared to the mild steel!!!! The copper just dissipates that heat and spreads it out as the mild steel has a much smaller heat affected zone
💯
i use silicone brass rod for faux rivets on my artsy robots. i found it easier to wet the steel then dab on the brass. it makes it easier afterwards to build up the brass
Thanks
What are the advantages to this over silver soldering as far as real world applications go? Genuinely interested here.
Is there an application for that type of connection? I have never seen a joint like that. If so where is it used?
Heat exchangers and air handling units is my profession
Very interesting video, but I am confused as to why you would want to weld copper to steel. Copper inclusions in steel weld were always a massive NO NO when I worked in engineering. Surely the weld will not have any long term stability? Can you give me a real world example of there you may need to use this?
I always use copper to help me to bridge a weld gap when welding steel in car body repairs which is my hobby.
Kind regards Paul from 48SPOKES (UK)
It looks like a bad brazing when the base metal is partly melted, or a bad welding when the root pass does not fully melt base metal with rod metal. It would be great to see a cut of the joint.
Very cool
Great video!!!! 👍👍
Thanks!
You bet!
Great demo. I have TIG welded aircraft frames and motor mounts Aluminum motorcycle parts and so on BUT - please give me an application where copper is welded to steel ... I am thinking large electrical installations ?
Heat transfer equipment, we make large scale air conditioning, heating coils some water based some oil and some steam. Different applications use different combinations.
@1dreadyzim I posted in a different comment about this. How do you address electrolysis in a water based system?
@@nitrojunkie9027 I'm not sure about a lot of what goes on past making these pieces. I'd be interested in learning that myself to be honest
@1dreadyzim 10/4.....we're playing comment tag haha. Yeah, it would be fine without the introduction of water and last as long as the material. But with water it will deteriorate rapidly do to electrolysis. Thanks for the response man......peace
@1dreadyzim I am a Boilermaker and have seen copper to steel connections on old boilers hold up fine. But they were on sealed hydronic systems that rarely got serviced. Most new stuff and code requires some sort of dielectric. Aight man......peace
It would actually be awesome if you could make a video about how to weld cast aluminium.
Jayden, c heck this out on weld.com...Paulie Brown...ruclips.net/video/yAVzzVHMQGY/видео.html
@@ypaulbrown thank you
"The fabrication series" on youtube has a video about this exact topic
@@GrizzlyFab ok sweet
@@GrizzlyFab yes they do
Damn fine work sir!
So why would you be welding these two materials together? What kind of environment would this be a regular procedure?
Heat transfer equipment, heating and cooling coils for large climate control systems. The larg housing units on top of buildings are where you would most likely find them.
@@1dreadyzim Thanks!
So one side(copper with low tin percentage) it is a wield the other side (steel) it is brazed or bonded, a very narrow band separates the 2 different interactions with the filler rod to the 2 different base materials to what is actually taking place, correct? 😎
Wow, that was beautiful welding.
Very interesting. Was this just an experiment, or do you have uses for this process? In actual application of this process in a piping system, I would be concerned about catastrophic results due to galvanic corrosion. However, it is awesome that you were able to weld these dissimilar metals, just food for thought.
We do this in the manufacturing of finned tube heat exchanger coils and related heat transfer equipment and accessories, such as process gas coolers/heaters, transformer oil coolers, fan/coil units, face and bypass coils, frames for coil removal capabilities, airside transitions, and drain pans. These are used in a variety of industries including HVAC, fossil fuel power generation, nuclear power generation, industrial process, pulp and paper, automotive, and petrochemical.
The steel will be the electron donor and will oxidize. I would be most concerned about brittle weld as iron greatly reduces the ductility of copper.
How would this be different if you were welding to a hole in the copper. ie: edge to edge.?
How about adding helium to the argon . Have you tried this ?
I'm curious when this type of joint would be necessary 🤔 I was always thought that you needed bronze between steel and copper to stop the chemical reaction between the steels.
Could this be done with copper to austenitic ss? I.e 304?
I'm sure it's a possibility but I'd have to research what filler I'd pick as I'm not sure I'd use this particular one
NICE JOB..👍🏼
What rods to use with copper when welding steel308?
Nice brazing not welding but looks good
Welding melts the base metals to join them together. This creates a strong metal fusion. Brazing uses filler metal to join together two separate pieces. Hence if the base metal is liquified it is a weld.
@@1dreadyzim no a weld has to be an amalgamation of both materials simply melting one of the metals to the filler isn't a weld of the materials to each other .
Or you have just joined one material to the filler
@@mickridley4409 both metals are melted here👍🏼
what applications would call for this?
Good thank you
Got any info for 110 copper to copper 1/2 to 3/8???
Ever try welding C182 or C1815 copper??
What material is the filler rod?
Which tungsten and size did you use ? Thanks Rod
He mentions thoriated. 3/32" would be minimum diameter for 200 amps.
Where'd you go to welding school or are you self taught?
what tungsten type r u using
How's your copper to copper tig welding procedure?
And you can do this using copper filler rod as well vs silicon
As I know welding is a process in which the base metal is melted. Soldering is when lower-temperature melting metal is used.
SUM'thing FOR ME TO TRY THIS WEEKEND....
What pressure do you run on the shield gas?
We do not measure pressure here, it is a scfm rating. For a gas lens setup it depends on your cup diameter and tungsten stick out. It could range from 20 to 40 scfm but experience determines everything! Happy welding!
If I had to, I’d guess that any two metals that form an alloy can be welded together. That assumption suggests that the weld would have the properties of the alloy, and not those of any parent metal.
Greetings. I would like to comment on your audio quality.
The hosts microphone audio is nearly unintelligible, and the intro is so loud I am sure that I am not the only one jumping out of my seat when it's plays. It's similar to commercials being way too loud.
The audio issues have been like this for a while, and I was hoping it was just a short term problem and didn't speak up.
Please invest in some sort of microphone that you can share with your creators and please turn the into level down.
Your content has been amazing over the years and I do enjoy watching when I can. Be well.
Hi mate I'm just wondering is it possible to weld cast aluminium and how could you do it.
Yes it's possible.
@@TJCaton91 thank you.
@jaydeneuen7756 they make special wire but I've used 4043.
@@TJCaton91 oh ok thank you.
@jaydeneuen7756 yes you can, durafix makes a rod for it. You're not welding, it would be a braze. But the joints and material is tough as hell. Also blue demon makes a rod for welding cast aluminum if I remember correctly.
no idea what some of you are talking about. and obviously a lot of you commenting have no idea what your saying. its tig welding. not brazing. the amps are high .he is melting the steel pipe easy when he washes up the pool to the steel. hes done a good job overall . not something i usually say about american welders, lol
Technically, this is brazing/soldering and not welding.
Welding turns two pieces of metal into one piece.
Brazing uses a different metal to glue other pieces together.
Exactly right and that is what was done here. When you make a pool on the copper that means it's made into a liquid state, and when I mention the steel melts like water this is a blend of both materials making this a weld.
Welded or brazed ?
I love it
The main thing I herd about Silicon Bronze is that anytime you use it your BRAZING and NOT WELDING
i didnt know this was even possible lol
may I know the filler rod number?
What filler wire please?
Oops, sorry, silicon bronze wire
Thermal conductivity does not mean “it just holds heat”