Pain after Back Fusion
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- Опубликовано: 30 апр 2016
- Pain after back fusion is common and it's usually due to Adjacent Segment Disease (ASD). This means the levels above and below the fusion break down faster.
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Please watch: "Cervical Disc Replacement Movement vs Normal Disc"
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I look forward to the day I see a surgeon actually comprehend and communicate the need for post spine surgery patients to optimize their diet, hydration, and bodyfat %....and dial down their expectations on activity.
Many who have spine surgery are told they can go back to a normal active lifetsyle, working as a fire fighter, playing golf, lifting weights, jogging++ etc.
This is BS. If a person's lifestyle led to advanced degenerative changes, their lifestyle choices need to be changed radically.
Doctors tend not to know this or intentionally ignore it, because they don't understand the inputs for degenerative disease.
Had a L2-L5 fusion done at UCLA in 2007. Subsequently, I had blown levels above and below the fusion over the past few years. On 11/23/2020, I had T-11-S1 fusion done with all new hardware. Surgery lasted 17 hours, 7am to midnight. While stapling me up ( 49 staples) my blood pressure went south and I had no palpable heart beat (PEA). I had to be flipped over for chest compressions and epi. Spent 4 days in ICU and 4 on med/surg unit. Lost a lot of blood. Anyway, I’m home, alive and walking around with my HD back brace. Nerve pain is still an issue, but is slowing going away. Back pain is manageable. Once you start down the back surgery road, odds are you’ll be a repeat customer. This was my fourth. First was 26 years ago.
Hello Bill- Thank you for your comment. Wow, I am glad you are alive and walking around! I am sorry you are dealing with nerve pain. This is something we treat regularly. (regenexx.com/blog/whats-the-difference-between-prp-and-platelet-lysate/) If you have an interest, happy to evaluate you, see if we can improve the stability-help treat those nerves. (centenoschultz.com/appointment/) Thank you!
Man I thought I had it bad. I just had L3 to S1 fused and had no idea post surgery pain would be this bad. But I got nothing on what you have gone through.
I totally agree , i had a surgery in 2011 and had to repeat another surgery last year , now i think because of the severe pain i will do a surgery 💔
Can i ask how old you are and what caused the initial fusion? Im lucky to have gotten away without a fusion to date, and the more i read peoples stories, the more grateful i am
@@ulynvanzyl8474 I just had l5 S1 fusion done October the 7th 2022 I have spondylothesis and my l5 was unstable and moving around like crazy there was no other choice for me so I hope everything goes well, the nerve pain that I had is totally gone and the weakness and numbness in my right leg is already starting to get better after one day.
I had spinal fusion at the L5 S1 2006 and I’ve been living in hell for 18 years and nothing ever works other than short term and it’s a total destruction of one’s mental state especially with the nerve pain in the anxiety that comes with it. To all those suffering Kratom has helped me a tremendous amount and I have not been on the doctors medicine in nine years. I can feel the disc above the fusion getting thinner and clicking more and the pain is ungodly. ❤️🙏🏻
is there a way to fix that fusion pro😢in spine by even removing the hardware and if you do what can be the problem
Cervical fusion done 11 years ago no issues and I've done my homework on my surgeon , I recently had a 3 level fusion in lumber spine the surgeon who performed the procedure is at the top of his game
Yea! give it another 11 more yrs then see how you feel! Good luck!
name him, please. I am dying pain
@@douglasvillaplana1626 why u so negative? There have been people who haven’t had issues 10-20 yrs post fusion.
@@sonnyjay1347 YA ITS EVEN TRUE. NO ONE WANT TO GIVE POSSITIVE FEEDBACK, ALL SAYS FUSION IN NOT GGOOD
@@samippudke so what do we do
Hello. I had my tlif surgery 3 months ago which was not successful and Dr revised the surgery. But now after 3 months i have severe pain in my lower back. Even i cant move myself out of bed.
Any advice on such condition.
I have 4 lumbar spine surgery. after 3 month is come back. 5th. and last option was was fusion cuz i have huge pain..... it took me 1,5year to recover my fusion and im now 70% better but i have big problem with muscle spasma in lower back. and no mobility ..... i got another doctor to look at me and he inject botax in my lower back muscle and it help -15-20 % more. it will never be the same like before. now in my new mr 1 of the screw is toch my s1 nerve. is now 10years with this issue
It's hopeless for people like me who can't work from pain, yet none of these doctors take Medicaid.
no money no honey
Better start stripping
you could always get a spine fusion :)
My SI and pelvis were fused in April. It was suppose to help my back pain from my SI joint and allow me to get off opioids. Now I cannot walk without pain, debilitating pain that is forcing me into a wheelchair, more opioids than I took before and now I am told they need to do hip replacement surgery.
Sorry to hear that. Si joint fusion causes adjacent syndrome of L5-S1. Take out the hardware and go for prolotherapy which might stabilize your spine and SI joint.
im so sorry for that, Im having spondylolisthesis grade 1 , Physician recommended Spinal fusion, But im confused becz im 26yrs old, If i have any permanant problem post surgery then what can i do for rest of my life, So before deciding im looking for reviews from the patient who already done this surgery
It is correct that ASD occurs all too commonly after fusion surgery. Very important to get info on both sides of the spinal fusion debate. Especially BEFORE you have the surgery. This is called "shared decision making" and "informed consent", concepts that, in my experience, are rarely adhered to in a practical manner. After that, the choice is yours.
Yes---there is also research reporting good/fair results with fusion surgery FOR CERTAIN very limited diagnosis. However, I must state this : Good controlled trails showing clear, consistently favorable results for instrumented spinal fusion for (as an example) a diagnosis of spinal stenosis, ...where are these trials/research? I am not able to find this research. Anyone care to dispute me by shooting me a reference? I won’t hold my breath waiting :)
you just need a spinal fusion thats all you need and youll feel good :)
I was born with scoliosis. First fusion was at age 3, another at age 11, again at 18 and most previous one at 39. Fusion is T8 to s1 now. Have DDD and spurs from t6 to t10 at the top of my rods. Also disk degeneration at c6 to c8. Most days are tolerable as i no longer work. But recently started having radiating pain down the left leg to the toes also having costochondritis like pain in the ribs. My surgeon says its up to me how much pain i can take then he wants to continue the fusion up . I am 46 now and well aware what is needed for another recovery and beginning to question options...
Sorry to hear about your situation. What could be the cause of the costochondritis, did you have a multiple rib removal surgery done?
Wow!!!!
Back fusion trashed my back. Biggest mistake getting back fused. Don't do it. Find another way. It will make you worse.
Which levels are you fused on and why did it make you worse? :o
Yes, lumbar disc replacment. Do your homework BIG time. Steve, they are reversible. They reversed the first C fusion two years ago. I had to stabilize my spine I had no choice. But this is a big big thing. Pick someone you trust, even if it means going to 1, 10, 20 surgeons.
did you get another spine fusion yet?
Thanks. I'm a CPT in corrective exercise. Got certified to help myself. Guess it's just my cross to bear. Fusion..huge mistake.
Mike Quinn, Congrats on CPT! We call Fusion a big dog with fleas...
I'm getting my fusion out on Friday, one of the screws is loose
I have the same problem. It's my lower left screw on S1. Is it something that your Dr suggest or did you research and ask to get the hardware removed. Thanks.
How did you know I feel like 1 of my screws at the top of my spine are loose
I had L5/S1 Microdiscectomy in November 2019, then fusion on that disc in June 2020, then L4/L5 Microdiscectomy in August 2020. I'm terrified of having another surgery. If the fusion destroys the L4/L5 disc completely. My surgeon told me that artifical discs can fuse after 3-5yrs as they get debris build up which over time stiffens them up. I now suffer with a lot of drop foot in my left foot as the disc has damaged the left side nerve.
This may be treated with the SANS approach. Go here and tell us about this more at length: centenoschultz.com/contact/
If you have medical questions, please feel free to call my team of Medical Consultants at 303-429-6448 or drop us a message at centenoschultz.com/contact.
I have had 5 back surgeries and I live in misery every day I'm not on any pain management I suffer daily to the point I'm exhausted and depressed most of the time. I however had an actual major spinal cord injury that made me paralyzed in my right leg mostly now that I am walking and moving again I have alot of nerve damage and pain and keeping my legs straight for too long is unbearable I need to bend them because my hamstrings are so tight. my advice is to really thoroughly research ur surgeons reputation first
Jimella Miles right
I flew to Barcelona Dr Clavel’s to get the most advanced artificial discs an I am the happiest man on earth. Europe has been some 12 ahead of the US because the artificial disc was invented in Germany in the mid-seventies. The Spinal Kinetics M6 or the ESP discs are superior because they have a cushion effect so ASD is virtually eliminated.
Regrettably, no clinical data yet that ADR reduces ASD.
Chris Centeno, M.D. My Dr Clavel in Barcelona has seen zero ASD after 14 years with the Spinal Kinetics M6 implants. This was no casual conversation, he indicated they are just not seeing ASD returns with this implant in Europe. We know that won’t stay zero, but the odds are far better. I would never put myself through the torture, expense of wasted time and money that my 16 year old fusion has caused me. It was the only solution at the time. There are some reasonable videos from Dr. Michael Janneson on line that detail much of the artificial disc facts.
The surgeons not offering disc implants will be left in the past. The internet educates and will push people to better choices. I have invested many hundreds of hours and five surgeries and The artificial disc have given me my life back.
Great, they should publish that data
Chris Centeno, M.D. I don’t buy into a genetic disorder being “the reason” ASD occurs. I am not saying impossible and it might be some factor, but there are other factors. Let’s examine the fact that the ASD is commonly on top and sometimes below the fusion. Why pray tell is that genetic? It’s “friction damage”, and that’s why it happens over time. If you use a implant with a cushion effect like Spinal Kinetics M6, the friction is removed from the process of movement to a far greater degree. Furthermore, I have had a double level lumbar fusion and it was damn painful and life disruptive for over a decade and then I had the M6 placed on top at L3/4 and the pain went away by 80% immediately - we literally spent a week walking Barcelona as tourist 3 days after this breeze of a anterior surgery. Why is it patients feel great shortly after an artificial disc implant and like crap for months after a fusion? Why fuse when implants is the European way for decades with the past decade with high success rates? Fusion is as silly as pinning a knee fixed. You just would not consider that these days.
The FDA costs $14 million and years to get approval so the manufacturers go to Europe first to get the CE approval which opens the door to 28 countries plus many that accept the CE approval. You have junk in the US like metal on metal ball bearing in a cup which means 100% energy transfer during movement. What about metal on metal particles in the spine, why risk the patient?
Fusion causes a non uniformity. That causes non normal movement and higher friction on the discs above and below - and because core muscles are restricted in movement, they can’t stay strong to protect the adjoining disc. I physically could never get those muscles to respond properly after the fusion. I say the fusion weakens important muscles and that and the friction burns out the next disc. The fusion is literally barbaric in contrast. I had left the fusion hardware in place for 16 years and removal was never discussed - a gross error by the surgeon. I eventually had to be bumped to dilaudid and I just had the fusion hardware removed two months ago and feel fantastic. One other surgeon said, we add these exposed to the outside of the bone metal parts and rods and there is just not much room and friction occurs. That was a lightbulb moment. Why leave hardware in over two years if it’s annoying? It’s needed for a year or two. Symptoms are unable to walk distances greater than a half mile without severe inflammation, inability to stand or be on your feet for more than an hour. Damn painful metal rods digging in when you’re sitting in a hard seat like many restaurants or any seat for more than 30 minutes. Why put patients through day to day torture?
If physicians paid more attention to qualifying the artificial disc (rather than generically saying they are all the same) and also buy into the right precision solutions, you would have far happier patients overall. That is what surgeons should pay most attention to. FOLLOW HAPPY PATIENTS with artificial disc and patients with fusions still in pain.
The biggest mistake by surgeons is buying into an implant solely based on which BIG manufacturer makes it. Go meet up with a team of mechanical and bio mechanical engineers to evaluate the different discs or make that happen at a Spine symposium. Then have them compare that to fusion.
@@jrchicago9216 lies all lies
I had spine fusion I have no pain for the first time in 50 years
everyone that get back done knows this first thing they tell you
you get spine fusion? :)
I had a fusion at level l4/l5 recently. This was due to spondylolisthesis. I was diagnosed years ago after an accident in the gym in which i fractured in the facet joint. After 3 to 4 years i decided to get the fusion done after exhausting all other options. I had a consultation with a well recommended sugeon as the slippage was only getting worse moving from a grade 1 to a grade 2. I was aware of adjacent segment disease beforehand, however i believed a fusion was the only option to stabalize my spine. I am interested to know whether the methods presented in this video would have been an alternative option as i cannot see how this would aid in stabilizing the spine?
Yes, we treat most spondylolisthesis patients this way, without surgery. Our goal is to strengthen the ligaments that are supposed to help stabilize the spine.
Chris Centeno, M.D. if all you have is a hammer.... everything is a nail. This is true for orthopedic surgeons, this is true for regenexx.... my advice to everybody is to exhaust all non surgical options first.. then do a fusion. However, there are many people who have to!! Have to! Get a fusion immediately after a traumatic injury. I had a fusion to treat my spondylolisthesis and feel great
@@centenohome is this by any chance Prolotherapy?
@@isaaccruel3994 Technically no, but it does use an element of inflammation to kick off the healing process like prolotherapy would. However, growth factors we put into the area help the structure become stronger.
@@centenohome can this help a grade 2 spondylolisthesis?
Oh no. No wonder I get pain there now :(
I have terrible neck and shoulder pain after lower spinal surgery three weeks later
can some one give me an idea what's gone wrong I am in pain Glenn..
Glenn, we'd need to see an MRI and examine you, however, it's important to understand that the Spine is a "machine" whose nerves then operate other parts of the system, called shoulders, legs, arms, hips, knees, etc. You can't do something invasive which alters the biomechanics of one section of the spine without it affecting other sections - which is why spinal surgery should be avoided unless and until all more conservative treatment has been tried. This is why we focus on using the healing potential of your body's own platelets and or stem cells in precise image guided injections to heal and repair without causing the collateral damage of surgery. Please see: www.regenexx.com/the-regenexx-procedures/back-surgery-alternative/
The muscles and fascia from the sacrum all the way up to the head are all connected. After surgery they have tightened up.six months of stretching exercises for entire spine will help you overcome this. Find a good physio and try it!
@@centenohome my doctor said spine fusion will fix all my problems tho
Bonjour doctor. Voilà 3 year ago i had back opération and my Life changed totaly.i spent nearly for year in my bed with terrible pain that everytime they took me to the clinic they told i had nothing because my prothèse of l4 l5 and s1 is perfect si you can t imagine at the end they said that all come from my head,i couldn t understand there diagnostique because my pain was there and reel couldn t even sit on chair or even go to toilet and showering just hell for year that cause big dépression.i went there to get well and end it like this. Freind of mine with my desperation bring home Chinese guy that put some niddels in my body.after that i Stuart to feel better day after day. Sincerly i don t konw if this has something to do with this or not.today i i feel the pain is still there but i can live with it because is less then the horrible one. Result lost my job lost my life as woman. I can t do really à lot. Write you because i could you you knew about my case that something was anable for the others. Merci
Had L4-5-S-1 Fusion 2015. Now level above fusion causing pain. . Back issues are horrible!
Acupuncture works for some, just not everyone. I'm happy it is working for you.
Why do the insurance companies pay for more fusion but not STEM cell injections? As a patient, it seems the message is the latter is not worth it?
PRP therapy and stem cell injections are very unproven not much of a track record of success.
Because there is no proof of anything Chris claims is actually working. It’s a lot of talk, but hardly any walk if you get what I’m saying. The studies they do have published are incredibly weak and have very small patients sample sizes. Not double blinded, not randomized, and not placebo controlled.
Hello, Thank you Dr for the valuable info in this video . I had a back surgery five months ago for my herniated disc in l5S1 however still in pain in my back and leg so I had another MRI recently that shows herniation on the same disc of the first operation . Can you please advise me ? Can I email you my MRI report? I saw two doctors after the surgery with the new MRI . One said I need to do the fusion and second one said I need another surgery to clean the new herniation . Please I need your opinion Thanks a lot
Badr Boussoufa hi mate I've had the same a you a decompression surgery of the L4 L5 in which it didn't work so I opted for the fusion which was interior were they went through my stomach to do the op it was the best decision that I've made it is back to what it was before I injured it over 6 years ago so if that helps you make a decision I've done my job all the best with it cheers
How old are you and how bad was the pain before? I'm considering having a fusion done to L5/S1
Sam Myer I’m 43 now and only just 3 weeks ago had one more op I had my L5-S1 fused because of the broken pars joint I had on my L5-S1 and they revisited my L4-L5 again while they were in there to beef the fusion right up just so I have the best chance at a full recovery because I’m large top set body so I’ve now got rods in my back from L4-S1 I’m feeling a little sore still as it’s understandable because I have not long had it done but the pain I had after my first fusion i can feel that there is no mechanical pain anymore. before the operations I had really bad back pain and bad leg spikes that would shoot down my legs and into the arches of both feet I don’t get that no more I’m getting a bit of pain in the back of my left thigh at the moment when I walk and pain in the back where the broken pars joint was but that I’m hoping is only because I’ve had it screwed back into position and it’s got a little swelling that will go down in time I’m hoping and feeling like I’m going to have a full recovery I know now besides being on strong pain meds still I feel better within my body now then I have in 2.5 years so that’s saying something good luck with it all mate I hope it all works out for you as I know/hope it has for me.
I'm 3 weeks out of surgery l5 s1 fusion and I had a 7 hour surgery because of how bad my nerves were pinched my siactic nerve pain was so bad my entire right side would shut down and my pain was horrible I couldn't walk or stand longer than 5 min. so I decided it was best to have the surgery ,what could be worst ,after the surgery I was in extreme pain level 10 and believe it or not the nurse came 4 hours later and made me get up and walk ,i almost died but I did it my legs were weak and numb I stayed in the hospital. 4 days got home and slept a lot , but I started walking up the hallway with my walker for 15 min a day until I was strong enough to do stairs ,now I'm mobile I use a cane my legs are stronger still some tingling in my feet but my siatic pain is gone I mean what a relief ! the spot in my back where the screws are is sore especially sleeping I've got off the opioids because they just make you sleep, i take a muscle relaxer at night and I'm good ,the more you walk the better it feels ,I'm glad I had it done because of the misery I was in ,i can finally relax and walk, surgery isn't for everybody but think about the damage your doing to those nerves and they take months to yearsto heal so good luck on anyone thinking about a fusion ,of course life will be different I'm turning 50 so no more contact sports just a lot of walks its the little things you'll appreciate.
And this is why I am too scared to do the surgery. I am 31, I have DDD, Siatica, Narrowing of the spinal coloum, 3 herniated disks and I live in pain all the time. So the surgery isn't worth it?
Nyxi Pixi,
Without examining you I can't comment on your case in particular, but Fusion is irreversible, so should always be the last resort. Please see: www.regenexx.com/should-i-get-a-back-fusion/ and www.regenexx.com/the-regenexx-procedures/back-surgery-alternative/
Nyxi Pixi I had a teldf procedure to avoid fusion ..... I had degenerative disc disease.... if ya fuse ya lose
LOOK TO GERMANY...... You need to look into motion preserving surgery, the United States is in the stone age when it comes to the spine. The industry is fusion happy... Funny thing is there are almost 12 Million spinal injections performed each year in the United States and they are NOT.... Repeat NOT FDA approved. They are considered "off label" use.
rwwcomplaw.com/off-label-epidural-steroids/
Long story short the original intended use was for joints, NOT A PERSONS Spine...
What a JOKE..................................
you get spine fused yet?
Three weeks ago I had fusion L4-L5 at University of Miami Hospital. The back pain I had for 3 years is now gone after surgery and I'm having a fast recovery, but now after watching this video I'm concern, if the fusion is going to give me problems in the future. Then now my question is ... What is the surgical alternative to fusion ?
we see hundreds of fusion candidates a year and treat them through regenerative injections without the need for any surgery. If the physicians who performed your surgery did not explain the concept of adjacent segment disease on the consent, then that's below the standard of care.
Stay with your program, what happens is that some people do not follow their doctor's orders and of course they are the first to complain.
Myself, I had L5 S1 fusion 3 weeks ago, I'm amazed at the results. Have faith in your doctor and listen to him, more importantly, if you have a question, do not be afraid to ask it.
In the last 10 years, both of my knees had to be replaced, I did the therapy and sure enough, I have not had any problems since.
It is up YOU to follow your doctor's orders. Do the therapy exercises that they give you, if you overdo it, it is you're fault! Not the doctors!
@@kencox8160 how are you now?
@@ilirosslu3332
No problems, walking more than ever. The key is to keep walking.
@@kencox8160 what is the best for your problem!?
And how km you can walk?
I can relate, I’m 61 and going in for my third fusion in 4 days. L-1 thru my sacrum. Wish I could go back and tell that dumb ass kid you didn’t have to be so tough
What do you mean? Did you get kicked in the back as a kid?
@@FromTheHood2TheWoods he got a spine fusion
I know this sounds unbelievable but eating the ketogenic way will greatly improve your overall health and pain, but don't take my word for it do your own research. FYI, I've had 2 fusion surgeries.
How are you after fusion surgeries?
Hang in there? Give me a break....
Jeremy Droge, You'll findmore information about how to fix these issues here: www.regenexx.com/the-regenexx-procedures/back-surgery-alternative/
did you get spine fused up yet?