Brazil crash pilots 'fighting until the very end': Captain | Vargas Reports
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Data indicates the Brazilian plane that crashed outside São Paulo, killing 61 people, dropped significantly in the last 60 seconds of the flight. Commercial airline pilot Captain Laura Einsetler says the data "shows how the pilots were fighting until the very end, trying to recover the aircraft.
#Brazil #PlaneCrash #VargasReports
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The scariest part is you know they're still alive in the video and then lights out. Prayers for all who perished, may they all rest in peace. 🥲
falling at that speed i believe many passangers probably already died (heart attack, blood pressure, whatever) before the impact or at least they fainted
@@nicc7271No they died because of the fire
@@Manuela-li9vu the ones who didn't die before the impact, died because of the impact, before the fire explosion
After watching that plane swirling around, I can almost hear those poor people screaming. How absolutely terrifying!!! Just Awful. 😢
Looks like you have super hearing like Spiderman.
They said almost.
Yeah, it's horrifying watching it spin and knowing what panic there must have been on board ... good God .... 8-/
Some people believe they were unconscious… so they didn’t see their certain fate.
@@20apoiar39 Unless the cabin de-pressurized, I am sure they were conscious, sadly ....
Those poor people, God bless them and their families. Hopefully, nobody suffered, they mustve known they were falling though. I can't even imagine.
😓
Horrific....
Very terrifying last minutes
@@juliusnepos6013 minute. It came down just in a minute...... I don't even imagine 😪
@@jcb1619The longest minute. 😞
I wish them peace.
I hope the families are being treated well.
Oh these poor passengers and crew members knowing they were going to crash with the Crew trying everything they could 😢 Prayers and love to the Familys 🙏🏼💕
The crew are the ones who failed them.
@@virgilhilts3924 do not blame the crew, they also died. it's pure accident. 🙏
@@mayvelynbalo8288
The crash was their fault.
How does their death negate their responsibility?
@@virgilhilts3924 then, you can call them from their grave and have them accountable.
@@virgilhilts3924 are you even thinking? the crew are dead, how can you even think of making them responsible? my goodness, you are so insensitive.
It hit the ground at over 180 mph/300 kmh
Far from mach 1.
All 61 lives were perished in a blink of an eye. May you all rest in peace 😢
@@Bruce3949 well they had a minute to suffer as the plane was falling. Maybe now they will FINALLY do something about the ATR. Theyve known the dangers of that plane since the 90s.
@@TUPELO_HUNNY Can't imagine the horror knowing you are about to die
It wasn't in a blink of an eye, it was too fast. Maybe in tens or hundreds of blinks of an eye.
To many reporters questioning and not reporting the news. Very sad news...
First of all she’s not a reporter, she’s an anchor and her JOB is a to ask questions so the expert can explain further.
Extreme icy clouds conditions over the region of the disaster, due to an incoming polar mass, compressed by a local cyclone over the south of Brazil leading to a bubble of cold air. The phenomenon happened due to unusual break on the polar vortex cyclone a few weeks ago, which is leaking extreme cold air to the south of South America, south of Africa, and the south of Oceania. The Brazil Air Force had issued a SIGMET (Acronym for Significant Meteorological Information) for severe icy sky conditions on the region of the State of São Paulo (including the zone of Guarulhos-GRU International Airport nearby)..
Pilots are awesome, they will fight to save the aircraft and lives until the final second.
Condolences to the bereaved.
May all on board find peace in the spiritual realm. 🌹 🕯🥀 💐💔 🦋 🕊.
The pilots are the ones failed them
@@virgilhilts3924 C'mon now!
@@silentnight9655
I guess facts hurt your feelings
@@virgilhilts3924 Opinion isn't fact. Get over yaself.
@@silentnight9655
I expressed no opinion
Icing occurs when flying in visible moisture in temperatures below freezing. The most severe icing occurs when the aircraft is in an area of supercooled water droplets. The water runs back on the wing as it freezes, accumulates quickly and in an aircraft like the ATR with pneumatic de icing boots which expand to crack and shed the ice, the icing occurs behind the protected area of the the wing.
It's not just a matter of lowering the nose to recover from a stall like you're trained on more conventional aircraft designs. An aircraft like the ATR has a T tail, aircraft with this type of design is very unforgiving when you enter a stall, particularly to the degree of the one in this fatal accident, a flat stall. In a situation like that, the only likely way to recover would be moving the center of gravity forward, to potentially aid in rolling the nose over the horizon, lowering the pitch and angle of attack, which would create aerodynamic lift, allowing pilots to regain positive control of the aircraft. In order for that to happen in this specific scenario, several passengers sitting in the back of the airplane would have to move all the way forward against the flight deck door in order to pull this hail Mary without any effective aerodynamic controls. But I don't believe this has ever been tested. They simply didn't have enough time to even think about that. Pilots became mere passengers. This type of stall is usually unrecoverable. Such a sad day for aviation worldwide. My heart goes out to the friends and family of the passengers and crew members who lost their lives in this horrible accident. 😢
Good analysis, and I agree with your solution to recover. A forward CofG would be a viable solution.
@@neilfoster814 that's what a lot of glider pilots have to do if their plane's CG is too aft. They remove their seat belts and move as forward as they can on their seats. Yikes.
You have no clue what you are babbling about
@@virgilhilts3924 I guess I am clueless eh... 🤣
@@agoogleuser2369
Yup 👍
(cue the faux pedigree in 3... 2... 1...)
its never only one cause, there must be a series of events that lead to an accident like this. Lets just wait for the investigation. It was in an acessible area, the data and voice recorders were recovered. Brazilian authorities are professional and experienced in incidents investigation, also never shy of asking for help from other countries if needed. They will find out what happened and it will help prevent future accidents
0:45 "didn't have enough altitude"
17,000 ft... IF there's any way to recover that's enough room to do it. You could recover the space shuttle from a spin in that much altitude.
That wasn't a normal spin. That was a flat spin. Near pinwheeling about a point inside the fuselage. Tail near level with the nose. Wings near level. A condition you DO NOT WANT TO ALLOW TO OCCUR. Generally aircraft design and operation limits are intended to make that flat spin impossible to occur accidentally.
I suspect that whatever else was going on... it was loaded with too much weight to the rear.
Great analysis. You are probably correct. However, they failed to pull back the power to let the nose drop. They might have had a chance but until we know the weight & balance numbers; it is anyone's guess. I know this, because they did not pull the power back until the last 3-4 seconds; they had 0.00% chance to make it, which was the result. They needed the nose to drop to get air flow to get rudder authority to break the spin.
Yeah, an aircraft in flat-spin is basically a spinning rock, absolute no control...
@@lucasmatsuoca Especially with full power which is keeping the nose up and the air flow cannot get over the rudder. If they reduced power, and the nose dropped; they had a chance.
Very Sad.... A call for an in-depth ATR certification review should be made as soon as possible by the regulators.
After the American Eagle crash in Indiana in 1994, the deicing boots were increased in depth to counteract the effect of “run back” where supercooled water droplets freeze when hitting the wing and run back to the area behind the deicing boots. One question is whether the aircraft’ flaps were deployed. ATR manuals instruct against deploying flaps in these conditions as it can exacerbate the impact of icing.
That aircraft appears to be in a 'deep stall', which in T tail aircraft in 90% of cases is impossible to recover from. The stalled and turbulent air from the wings blank stable air from getting to the rudder and elevators that are needed to recover from any stall/spin.
Some pilots have recovered from deep stalls by increasing and decreasing thrust from the engines which can 'rock' the aircraft out of the stall, but it's a slim chance at best. Several Piper Tomahawks have been lost in the same scenario (they have a T tail too).
RIP to crew and passengers from an ex pilot.
I think after he entered the flat spin, even if he had fast reflexes, cold temper, and knowledge to try this strategy to "unflat" the plane, it would probably not have enough altitude to recover, everything happened in under a minute.
@@lucasmatsuocaeven if be did have altitude if hes in a flat spin hes done for unless the plane nose lowers, he didnt have control because no air was going over the control surfaces
@@josiahbutler2254 Yes! the proof being is that Chuck Yeager flying the F-104 starfighter do to engine shutdown at 80,000 feet went into a flat spin. He was not able to recover his A/C and bailed out. He said he did 8 flat spins before he ejected. Like you said without enough air coming over the flight control surfaces there is no way to recover it. RIP folks.
Imagine going down in a slow spin for 90 seconds being fully aware whats happening next - everyone still alive at the moment these pictures were made .. //
Ice on the wings of any airplane will stall. You're literally a falling rock at this point. Unfortunately, the ATR wings are very small compared to other aircraft and wasn't designed to de-ice effectively.
That type of plane is not really safe
Making assumptions is not helpful. I encourage people who want to know watch the legitimate breakdowns of pilots and flight crash investigators. . Condolences 💐 to Families and Loved ones of all who lost their lives. 😢🇧🇷🙏🏽
thank you Elizabeth Vargas for asking all the questions I would want to know at this early stage. If it’s any consolation I believe the soul leaves the body before impact such as this. Still…💜💕💜
What this Captain fails to mention is that power keeps the nose up these turbo props. You can hear the engines are spooled up. The only way to have recovered this would have been to pull power immediately and get the nose pointed down to initiate recovery - assuming that altitude was sufficient.
They will blame the pilot but this aircraft has enough accidents to be grounded. I am not a pilot but I do read a lot 🤷🏻.
A flat spin stall is almost impossible to recover.
Even if they could have lowered the nose to get some airflow over the wings, the dang thing was probably covered in ice and would not be able to fly until the ice is melted off. Lowering the nose might have just plowed the plane into the ground even harder, like at the speed of sound. I would say the pilots kept the plane falling at a slow enough speed that people below might have had a chance to get out of its way before it crashed on to them. RIP to those souls.
Cruce,,,, that aircraft could never go the speed of sound,,,,,,, it would break apart long before that occurred. But your right about the ice! It's all very sad.
Icing, reminds me of American Airlines crash of ATR.
That was a bad one too. Again, pilot error.
@thonatim5321 Stop commenting when you do not have any knowledge of or understanding of aviation
@@PTANV-x2g I have flown for over 40 years, singles, twins and jets. I am also a teacher. For you non-pilots who have no idea how to fly an airplane except MS Flight simulator.
This is PILOT ERROR plain and simple. they flew into known icing conditions. Then when they entered into the stall, they did not follow proper recovery checklist. The first item is to REDUCE POWER to let the nose drop to break the stall. I heard the power reduction in the final 3-4 seconds on the video and it looks like they broke the stall but not enough altitude to recover.
@@thonatim5321 Just to clarify/correct some things said - STALL recovery is initiated by decreasing the angle of attack - lowering the nose and simultaneously ADDING power (or thrust), not reducing it. Adding power will decrease the AoA. Reducing power will further increase the angle of attack making the stall worse. SPIN recovery - a spin is a stall with autorotation - is initiated by reducing power (or thrust) to idle, simultaneously pushing the yoke forward (lowering the nose) and adding full rudder opposite the direction of the spin, recover with full power.
Also flight 883, aero caribbean
So tragic to begin with. More tragic to crash in a residential area and jeopardize more civilians.
Bugs: Wow! Is that an asteroid?
May all passengers and crew be at peace. Bless the families of the 62 passengers.
the fall was long enough that a flight attendant still had time to text her husband a message asking him not to forget she loved him
My heartfelt condolences for all victims and families 😢😢😢 🙏🙏🙏
The bloody carnage must be unimaginable.
How is it possible to fall 17,000 feet in under 60 seconds?????
Free fall.
Flaps and Slats …… Seriously. Slats on an ATR.
Why cant they put big parachutes on the plane?
They don't care about people that much.. it would take designing all new planes that could eject people safely. The cost is too much.. but I believe all planes should have parachutes too. It only makes sense.
This kind of accident is quite unusual, for the majority of the accidents a parachute woudn't work.
@@NjD.... Eject people? what are you nuts?
It's not viable to do so. The size of the parachute to hold an airplane would be big (like a soccer stadium big!), and also too heavy; the airplane would need more space to put the parachute, more fuel, a lot os systems that wouldn't allow it to open at the wrong time, and systems to make it open properly when needed. I know a Brazilian channel (Aviões e Músicas) did like 3 vídeos explaining why it's not possible.
Flaps and slats? Can they get someone who knows what they are talking about?
Flaps are the back of the wing, slats are the front if the wing.
@@chuckswanson8496 ON some aircraft yes. But the ATR-72 does not have slats! And I could not believe this commercial pilot said it! I wonder what type ac she flies? A Piper vub maybe? Take care Chuck.
news anchors who manage the "I'm very interested - stressed, even annoyed" attitude, end up looking more scripted than anything else.
Hey, NewsNation! Fan from São Paulo, Brazil here.
The spelling for São Paulo is wrong. It's spelled as I spelled above, with the "~" accent above the "a" in "São".
What about that flat spin made Elizabeth Vargas think about a corkscrew?
This is honestly the dumbest analysis of this crash.
What’s dumb Is you staying to watch! I bet just to give your own negative commentary?! 🤦🏻♀️
@tammiep9628 Tammie, this was a tragic event that has and will impact scores of lives. The speculation and trite commentary from the news announcer was completely premature, ignorant and uncalled for.
The questions being asked should have and could only be answered by qualified and trained aerospecialists.
Exact ! 2 majeures grossières fautes : : poursuite d ’ un vol en givrage sévère connu ., avec un appareil réputé pour être vulnérable à ce phénomène.et mise délibérément l ’ appareil en " deep stall " ( certainement pour sublimer la glace ...)...attendons la suite pour connaître les tentatives pour sortir de ce mauvais pas ..pour info il y a des vidéos relatant des corrections possibles ( pilotes d ’ essais faisant cela d’ une façon routinière )...
@@dogfoodking Agreed! It will take some time to figure out how and what happened. More than one thing occurred in order for this to happened,,,,,,,,,,,, very sad RIP folks.
All of them and their loved ones so sad. I hope any were able to reach out in that short time.
I'm a physics professor. It sounds like the female captain actually knows what she is talking about.
Thank you sir, we really needed a male to vouch for her so that we knew we could trust her. 😉🙄
@@jenmae21 You're so easily triggered by innocent comments. Why are you so insecure?
That’s why she’s the captain, and you’re not.
@@jenmae21Yes, why not just say "the captain", not "the female captain"??🙄 Its not like there's also a male captain in the studio so he needs to point out exactly who he's talking about. Could be nothing, but likely some kind of bias (whether conscious or unconscious)(...)
@@susanjones8489 I'm a physics professor and you could never be. I could be a captain, but why? I like to sleep on the plane.
Planes are generally the safest mode of transport. But the irony is that when it crashes to the ground there is usually no survivers. I believe the pilots tried their best to try and recover from stalling due to severe icing conditions: it was too little too late. I cant imagine the horror the passengers and crew had to endure in those few minutes. It's by time they try out parachuting safety system on planes, and use them in am emergency if that can be possible.
This plane had recent Tail damage due to a tail strike. It had just returned to service fairly recently. I am betting the investigators will be looking at this closely. Maybe a catastrophic failure of the elevators occurred due to a bad repair. Maybe like the Alaska Air crash late 90's.
Why show that footage? That’s copilot’s mangled body at 1:23 right under the windshield wiper
What are you even looking at? There’s no body shown in that footage.
@@PTANV-x2gthere could be looks like a bloody corpse but it's so quick it's hard too spot
And a face too. Omg 😢
62 people 🙏🏻
RIP to all who passed. It's sad that this commercial pilot on here said they will figure out about the slats and flap settings later. Only problem is the ATR-72 does not have SLATS! How could she be so dense? Oh well,,,,,,,,
Since they were coming in for a landing shouldnt they have been in contact with the tower and communicated what problems they were having
Aviate, navigate,communicate. In that order. No one the other end of that radio could have helped them.
No time for communicating. The pilots were trying to get the plain under control.
@@tomski1111 older planes used to have a navigator whose job was also to communicate. Now with only two pilots, it’s very difficult to handle the plane in a catastrophic situation without too many distractions.
They weren't actually coming for landing at the time. They were flying level at 17K feet then very quickly dropped a thousand feet, climbed back up then went straight down in that flat spin. They hadn't started descending for landing when control was lost.
What could have made this plane fall in this manner? Wouldn't it just glide down?
There are devices on the wings to get rid of ice.Inflatable boots that break the ice.So either they weren't working or were not deployed.
Elizabeth Vargas?
How does it get into that kind of spin
She explains it!!
The simple answer is that, in this case, it’s very likely that ice built up, and one wing stalled first, which almost instantly puts you into a spin. If the icing was severe enough, there may have been nothing whatsoever they could do to recover it.
That ATR is known big time for stalling with Icing
Great description by Captain Laura, excellent!
The aircraft was at full power until the last 3 or 4 seconds. This is clearly pilot error. There is no guarantee the pilots would have recovered. However, the pilot should have NEVER flown into icing conditions. Ice is a killer. This is 100% pilots fault. He should have known better. He should be charged with murder even after his funeral.
Icing.....
E. Vargas? Wasn't she on a mainstream network?
She was on ABC for a long time but I haven't watched TV in years so I have no idea when she left or why.
Me Lady please please no nooooooooo okays good
Pilots had full power response to the ice but full power is the enemy in spin recovery. They kept full power in. Should have not been flying in the icing conditions. RIP😢
the real problem is that the airspace in Brazil is in complete chaos... because everything in Brazil is in total chaos...
This was the first commercial aviation crash in Brazil in 18 years.
Brazil manufacturers Embraer. Why Voepass chose to fly an airframe with known issues is crazy. Oh yeah, GREED.
Imagine how many flights there are in a huge country with poor road infrastructure - Brazil has an extremely good safety record //
Where are you from? Italy? France? What's your job? Aircraft dealer? Do you know Brasil? Have you ever come to Brasil? São Paulo State?
@@joaohenriquepace126 Brazil is a beautiful country and makes in my opinion the best planes...Embraer. Condolences to your country and the families who lost loved ones. I would rather fly on a Brazilian Embraer anyday
The level of human trauma is too much to bear. The older you get the less you want to risk anything. To paraphrase Shakespeare death is cruel
Mass air travel is the rule but despite how safe it is there’s going to horrific accidents. Im done flying
Icing in Brazil? Didn't know that was a big problem. Would have guessed the angle of attack of the propeller blades malfunctioned
Severe icing was reported that day between 12000 and 21000 feet. They were flying at 17000.
Whole famílies died. A 6 year-old Venezuan child diedalong with his Mom, Grandmotherand even his 6 month-old púppy.
Elizabeth got more sense then the p8lot woman. How this icy fact isnt a problem in heavy winter countries
Was jy daar in nooooooo please man okays god met hulle
The autopilot tried to maintain altitude and stalled the plane
So she knows nothing thanks
Ice
clearly the news broadcaster does not know how the aircraft works... worst asking some "stupid" questions...
they had a lot of altitude
Unacceptable. This aircraft should be scrapped everywhere
She didn’t really answer the icing question.
This woman is clueless.
Sounds like pilot error/lack of ability.
Planes should have mandatory parachutes
Problem with the aircraft?
With no disrespect…….it’s “Pilot” error!
“Two” pilots up front and we let a perfectly intact aircraft stall?
Icing? I doubt it…….but even if it was……..there’s action to be taken to avoid further risk of stalling to a crash!
It's winter here. I'm from southern Brazil and there was ice on the ground today. Icing is very likely
@@Krintaas2398 ATR 72 is certified for known icing! More icing than you see in Brazil! Have been to Brazil many times! Correct action from an experienced crew would have spared many lives!
What you can recovery at 6000 feet . A lot of time to recovery. Brazil is hot this time of the year 😂
It's winter here, the day of the accident was very cold.
High altitude stall
Why speculate? They know cero
👍 ERAU 👍
It looks to me it was pilots mistake, they often mess up with the angle of rotors blades, but investigation will tell for sure.
Some "expert".
2 genius speaking😂
The plane fell from more than 17k feet. It was closer to 19k. Both would be enough altitude to recover from a flat spin.
Fighting with each other, then fighting to keep the plane in the air.
my wild guess is it was pilot error that created a flat spin.
Did you not hear that it was likely ice was the contributing factor. So sick of yall blaming the pilots when you know nothing about aviation.
They had 16,000 feet.
Elizabeth Vargas, hearing the engines running does not necessarily mean, "...the engine were working fine"! You revealed your obvious ignorance of aviation mechanics and physics. Typical talking head pretending to be an expert.
I love ATRs they are amazing aircrafts those who are blaming the aircrafts try looking for 737 crash record and you will hate the 737 or 320s.
Boeing I assume
Nope, not this time.
This captain Einsetler should be banned from commenting on crashes. She knows nothing about what happened here!
icing
Wtf. These gals are ridiculous!
Definitely UAP related. The beam just dropped them. Rip innocent souls.
INSIDE JOB ! THEY HAD THE CURE FOR CANCER
Oh gosh please stop talking
Plane dropped like waterfall as though the engine suddenly stopped similar to water getting into fuel tank like gasoline cars.
No
Why doesn’t she just admit what is obvious -it’s the plane that is at fault and is susceptible to icing.
FFS
Whenever you fly, you take a major gamble on your life. 50% youll land safe, 50% a malfunction that ends in total catastrophe.
Thats why i never got on plain in my life i am now 37 years old and i will never get on plane
That’s not how statistics work. That’s like saying when I eat, I will have a 50% chance of choking to death and a 50% chance I will be fine
more dangerous to travel in a car statistically, than a plane.
go look it up.
I agree @monos70
50% means HALF the flights end in catastrophe according to you.
EVERY DAY in the US, there are 45,000 commercial flights, so if you were correct,
there would be 22,500 crashes PER DAY.
And if a plane crashes half the time, by the end of the month, there would be no planes left.
You born this way? Or a red hat make you this way?
French and canadian aircrafts 🤮
Boeing s do not crash?🤔
IN MY NOT QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL OPINION, IT SOUNDS LIKE A FUEL TANK PROBLEM BROUGHT ON BY SWITCHING GEORGE OFF AND GOING TO MANUAL. AT WHICH POINT THE PILOTS WERE DUMB FOUNDED AS TO WHAT TO DO NEXT. DON'T TRUST A PILOT TO DO THE RIGHT THING IN AN EMERGENCY. AHAHAHA AHAHAHA LOL
ATR is one lousy aircraft!